How can I have the best sleep of my life?

0:08This episode of Stylish is made for summer, not sun damage. Let's stop normalising sun tanning and end the trend. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co-hosts today are Joanna Fleming and Anika Joshi-Smith. Hello. Hello. La la la ladies. Guys, I've got to say, I had a really terrific 2025. You did. And then January's just kind of spun me out a little bit and I was really going like, no, I don't want 2026 to start off like this. There's just been a lot of like very quick pivots needed for me on a lot of fronts.

0:52And then I was very gently reminded that it is still the year of the snake. Now, I don't know about you, but I felt like I was seeing a lot of like, oh, it was because it was the year of the snake and next year is going to be the year of the horse. But a friendly reminder that Lunar New Year does not track to calendar year. the year of the snake actually finishes on Feb 16th and then the year of the horse begins on Feb 17th. So I was like oh I'm just doing some final shedding. We are. I think you really are knowing what's going on and moving in all that kind of jazz. Jo I know you have your phone handy.

1:26I do. Do you have a little synopsis of the year of the horse what it might mean for us all? I do yes I just brought up a Vogue article and in this article they say that in simple terms The Year of the Horse represents rapid change, fresh opportunities, personal growth, and a faster pace of life. Oh, good. Sounds like those people are going to have to keep coming, actually, when you read it like that. Yeah. I'm actually quite relieved because I feel like, and I don't know about you guys, but I came back to work and I hit the ground running. And I also, you know, when you have a reset, like after the holidays, and you're kind of like, does this still serve me?

1:59Am I still into this? Am I not? Well, I came to so many conclusions starting this year about things that no longer serve me. and I'm still getting rid of them. But I'm making way with a refreshed mindset and it's actually feeling really good. So I'm quite happy that I've got until February the 16th to do the final shed and welcome the new. I am too because I actually give myself January off from response. Nice. I am like January's surviving, not thriving for me. Yes. So I always think, like I love, you know, the Australian Open's been on, it's busy. I love going to the tenant, all those things.

2:29So I'm like, there's not really regular programming in January. It's still a bit of no man's land. February unlocked the fuck in. Yeah. Because everyone loves a circle back. I'm guilty. I'm so guilty about myself. Everyone except you. Yeah, I was straight back into it on Jan 2nd. Yeah. I was like shit to do. When you were like after the break. I was like, Jo and I are like, what break? What break, doll? Okay, well, we thought because we're doing an RUL episode today that that would be a good way to kind of, you know, start the episode. Maddie is unwell. Yeah. Yeah. So for those of you who aren't familiar with our RUL episode, this is more lifestyle focused content from us.

3:10So in this episode, we'll be focusing on something that we all do and something many of us wish we could get more of, which is sleep. But first, what do we want to swap in this week before we jump into chatting about sleep? Okay. So speaking of February, February on our fashion calendars, everybody is New York fashion week. It's such an exciting time. This is the first time that I'm sitting out market with my team and I'm devastated because mommy can't travel. But I'm already looking ahead. So I'm feeling super inspired when it comes to like winter fashion. It's like so hot in Melbourne right now, so it seems outrageous.

3:45But I'm just so excited for winter fashion and turtlenecks, funnel necks. We all know that there'll be a resurgence that we're making their way back into our wardrobe. And one thing I've always struggled with is the Olsen hair tuck. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And I feel like you'd be the perfect candidate because you've got long hair like me and Jo, our perfect pristine princess over there, don't know if she struggles with this or not, but whenever I do an Olsen hair tuck, I get this like bulge and I look like a mushroom head. Like it's not chic, it's not sitting nicely. It's hard to keep in there.

4:17It is. It also gets really knotty. So knotty. Yeah, at the back. It's like matted. Yeah, it fully gets matted. Okay, well, today I'm going to swap in Grace E. Nicholas on Instagram, and we'll post up the video as well, but her trick to getting the perfect Olsen tuck, she actually puts her hair into two plaits, and then has it sitting, obviously, side by side in her plaits, has her turtleneck on, and then, like, teases out just soft bits across the top. Yeah. She looks so chic every single time. Are they really loose? Wait, is it one braid? Two. Two. So you get soft bits on both sides. What I will preface is you probably need layers for this.

4:54Like I don't have a lot of layers. I've got long layers. I think if you have longer length hair with no layering, you could look a little like Lord Farquaad if you're not careful. But also you'd have a part at the back, wouldn't you, if you did a peak? Could you do it in one plat? I reckon it could also work. And you could do it in one plat. I mean if you're going to a middle part, let's test it. But I feel like it's a total vibe because I always wear a middle part. So I feel like anyway, if I was to pull it back, I do have layers as well. Actually, I'd be the perfect candidate. who's the perfect princess in the group now?

5:24Me. But, yeah, that's my swap. And actually her content in general is just really cool. She's just a cool girl all around. So give her a follow. Check it out. We love a cool girl, Rek. Yes, MST. What have you got? So my swap this week, I realised that I hadn't had a fashion swap for a while. You had that and it's been illegal. Been asleep at the wheel. So my swap this week is actually from Melbourne-based brand Deering, who you might know for their sunglasses and their clothing. but just little quietly behind the scenes dropped some shoes and my new favorite shoes no less just held them up to the camera even though this is i had seen these on instagram because i follow erin deering the founder of deering former founder of triangle yes and they're so sexy that's i love so much i got served their campaign video which i just thought was a bloody great campaign video and immediately purchased i'm just slipping my footwear back on look I mean bonus swap follow Erin we've um interviewed her re-interviewed her on face to face she's an absolute powerhouse but also just has great dress sense I can't say that I'm shopping in Erin's price bracket but I do enjoy it for a little bit of inspo yeah look they were definitely a premium price point they were 550 and I am really really hesitant to spend significant money on shoes because I'm so heavy-footed so unless it's a boot or a sneaker I really just don't invest but I saw these and the way that I ran to cart they also come in a really great poppy coral color but I have burgundy I would get those in a heartbeat burgundy are great and I wear them with black and denim a lot yeah shake Erin was actually in there when I was going in just to try on some other stuff but I'd already bought the shoes and I was like Erin I'm obsessed I'm like excited to go somewhere to wear them and I was like would you do them in black and she was like no they're supposed to be fun like burgundy is our black and I was like I love I love that I've worn them so much I love them at the moment I do think they're out of stock but I know they're recutting them and they also come in as I said a really fun coral the coral color as well it's kind of giving our shameless media logo a color like I feel like it almost be rude not for us to all own a pair but they're also really comfy yeah they look comfy they look so when you walked into the studio today all of us were like you look so chic and they had the perfect finishing touch Yeah, I agree.

7:41I will say with a miniskirt as well. They do magic things for the legs. Yeah. Anyway, thanks, Dearing. Obsessed. Jo, what have you got? No surprises here. We've got a cleaning one today. Great. Yeah. My favourite. I'm locked in. The people love the cleaning refs. They do. You know I've come around too. We've taken notes. We've taken many a night. I'm just giving the people what they want. Today's swap is the Vamoosh Pet Hair Dissolver, which I get from Amazon. Dog hair is the bane of my existence. honestly this dog hair on our dog here's a waimurana and this is wiry hair it does not come out of anything it is not like golden retriever hair where you can pick it up with one of those sticky things or like a lint roller it will not come up with anything even if you wash it so I end up with so much dog hair in the washing machine after I do his bedding so I put this stuff in and it's not a miracle worker let me just say that don't have like super high expectations, but it's probably reduced the amount of pet hair left in the machine by about 60%.

8:40Wow. So it significantly reduces the amount of hair that's in there, which means I don't have to spend as much time cleaning it out afterwards. And then I do a drum clean and all of those extra things that I have to do between doing my next like normal laundry cycle. So it just makes a massive difference to the cleanup after doing the bedding. So I think if you have the same problem and you have a dog that sheds hair, cause yours doesn't, Annika. No, Misa was perfect. What can I say? Then you may want to invest. But I do want to flag, expect still some pet hair, just not as much as there was before.

9:14Anything that reduces pet hair even by 10%, sign me up. Same. I think some people, I read the reviews, I'm like clearly they expected it to be dissolving every ounce of hair that was on the bedding or whatever they were washing, but it reduces it. So just keep that in mind, but it has worked well for our situation. Progress, not perfection. I wonder if I could use it in the drains because that's the one thing I get in trouble about at home. Like, James, I will never pull out my hair from when it molts down the drain. I think Drain Killer will probably do that one for you. Drain on. Sorry.

9:47Anyway. All right. We are learning all about you, our listeners' sleep habits, after a word from today's sponsor. We've all got our own way of appreciating the Aussie summer. Some of us get to the beach as much as humanly possible, and some of us prefer to stay inside with the aircon cranked. But here's the thing. Even if you're not the beachy type, you're bound to spend time in the sun. It's impossible to escape. In fact, it takes just 15 minutes in the sun for damage to start. So your coffee run or your post-Pilates walk home can do more harm than you think. And given the UV is especially harsh in Australia, it's really important that you protect yourself.

10:23These days, two in three Aussies will be diagnosed with skin cancer in their lifetime. And if you're hoping to avoid premature aging, you might be interested to know that 80 % of visible premature aging is due to sun exposure. Thankfully, by making sun protection part of your daily routine, you can massively reduce your chances of skin cancer and premature aging. When you're heading out, especially over summer, be sure to slip, slop, slap, seek and slide. It's your new self-care mantra. Thank you so much to the Cancer Council in the Australian Government for making this episode of Stylish possible.

10:52You know we love to get a feel for what you guys are thinking and feeling. So last week we put a survey out to you on Instagram all about sleep. We wanted to know how much you're getting on average and what time you usually go to bed, among other things. You might remember that we had this viral video on our stylish socials or shameless socials. Stylish socials. It was stylish. And we went around the office and everyone was sharing their bedtimes and it went off. It really divided the community, honestly. The community and beyond. It was like viral and had over a million views. Yeah, majorly viral.

11:24So let's start off with some stats. First, we asked how well you sleep, and I'm going to round some percentages here just for the sake of ease. So 48 % of you said you sleep pretty well. 26 % of you said sometimes well. 11 % of you said really well. 10 % of you said badly. And 5 % of you said you really struggle with it or you have insomnia. Now, in terms of bedtimes, 46.5%, the majority of you said you go to bed between 9pm and 10pm. That surprised me. That feels early in terms of my normal bedtimes, but I don't know. Maybe that's normal. Do you guys feel like that's a normal bedtime? I have deep shame.

12:02Okay, we'll get into that. Let me continue. Followed by 29 % going to bed between 10 and 11 and 15 % between 8 and 9pm. I actually fall into this category. So my phone goes on like quiet mode or do not disturb at 844 and I try to be offline like 844 yeah that's weirdly specific I know don't ask I just don't know that sometimes I surprise myself to anyway and then I try to have no screen time so I can actually fall asleep by 9 30 so I'm trying like I'm genuinely in bed by 9 30 what are you doing in bed are you reading or something in bed or sorry if that's an invasive question no welcome come on over come into my bedroom we try to actually just like connect and talk so James and I mean we yeah before bedtime and that means like maybe I might even just like get into bed we'll chat together or like I have a moment with me so my dog yeah and I just tell him how much I love him before the baby comes along and we can noodle I've got quite a soft side guys um but I literally try to be offline from 8 44 and like no screen time no nothing so don't even try get a hold of me at that time and if I do respond to you consider yourself so fucking lucky.

13:11I feel like you have responded to me within those hours so I feel I like you. Yeah thank you. Yeah it's in our group chat which is called the boo-boos. Yes uh I think you have a similar bedtime to me. Yeah. Are you between 11 and 12? Yeah. Same. I used to be really rigid too. I used to be so good like I would always be in bed by 9 30 and try and get to sleep by about 10 30 because it does take me a while to get to sleep and then I just think over the years as work has gotten more demanding. I really just don't feel that there are enough hours in the day for me to do everything that I need to do.

13:44And I work really late. I then, you know, like to have a bit of brainwrecked time scrolling. I like to read things. I like to watch things. I go to bed really late and I still get up quite early. What time do you go to bed, Jo? At the moment, it's between 11 and 12 depending on the night. But as you said, like I also work relatively late hours. So on some evenings, like my last client doesn't finish till seven. And then by the time I've eaten dinner and we've cleaned up and we've done the things that we need to do and had showers and then we're like sitting down to watch our TV show. And as you guys know, eat my orange at 9.30 and my blueberries.

14:21Yeah. The fruit's changed, by the way. Oh, what is it at the moment? It's currently a mango and a plum. Oh, yum. Can I come over? That sounds like a bit of me. Yeah, Adrian can cut it up for you. He does it in little pieces like I like. Anyway, and by the time we're sitting down to watch our show, it's 9.30 and then that show goes for an hour and then we're getting ready for bed and so then it's 11 and sometimes we're even starting it later. But I always like to watch the show, you know? Can I ask you guys then, what time are you waking up if you are going to bed so late? I have two alarms and I'll pick which time I want to wake up depending on the time I'm going to sleep.

14:57Yeah. So I either get up at 5.50 or 6.20. Okay. Yeah. Not that early. Depends if I have Pilates. Honestly, I've had a big break from Pilates at the moment and I've just been doing dog walks. But if I was doing a 7 a.m. Pilates class, I would try to go to bed earlier because I need eight hours. Yeah. But at the moment, depending on what I have on the next day, probably 7.30. Okay. So because obviously with my business as well, I've got like the craziest business hours. and a goal I made for myself this year was actually sticking to my bedtime and getting those eight hours. But then I could at least have a bit more flexibility in the morning.

15:32Because I'm noticing, which is so weird for me, I'm more of a morning person at the moment. And I feel like I'm so much more engaged. So I like to be available to like international clients as well. I'm getting like the most out of my days in the morning. Okay. I think it also depends on how your brain works as well, because I don't think I am fully functioning in the morning, I feel like my brain at the moment at this time in my life works better in the evenings. So I often find I can just be away on emails and I wouldn't even realise what time it is. And it's really late and I'm not even tired.

16:01Whereas in the morning, I feel like I'm a bit sluggish. I'm more likely to get distracted and be on my phone and scrolling TikTok. I'm not really like that in the evenings for some reason. There's real hallmarks of me when my sleep became quite poor. I'm really tired to my career progression. Like I think as I've, and it's not even just working more it's as work has become more stressful and strenuous on my brain but it's also there's definitely a marker for me of last year I think it was in January when I started like a nine-month project working with Tower 28 and I was looking after Australia, UK, Middle East yeah wow like time zones nightmare but you're then working with a US-based team so I could be on calls at 2 or 3 a.m my time have to go back to sleep yeah get back up at 7 to catch them for three hours because then like you kind of have like a call with Mecca at 8.30, 9 o 'clock.

16:48It was fine. I'd have the day and then I'd be back on at like 4 p.m. Until like 11. I was like the walking dead. I did it. So when people are like, are you a morning person or a night owl? I'm like, I can be whatever you want me to be, baby. I've done it all. But I love getting up in the mornings. I just hate feeling sluggish. Yeah. Do you normally feel sluggish when you wake up at that time after you've gone to bed late? Yeah, I'm perpetually tired. Okay. All right. I'm exhausted. That leads me into our next percentages because we asked how many hours of sleep everyone is getting. Yeah. 58.8 % said they're getting between six to seven.

17:2435 % are getting eight hours plus. 6 % of you are getting four to five hours and 0.38 % are getting three hours or less. Wow. So I assume those are the people with either sleep disorders or young children that are answering that question. Are you guys surprised by any of this data at all? I was surprised at the bedtimes and I was surprised that most people are getting like six to seven hours. Oh, people getting over eight. Like I just, I'm so jealous. Because there's one thing, right, the time that you go to bed. So some people can go to sleep really easily, but you don't get the sleep you need.

17:58Do you know what I mean? Your brain's still up. Like the way that you sleep is very different because quality six hours sleep, or if you went to bed at midnight and got up at six, but that's six solid hours. For someone who goes to bed at 9.30, might wake up every hour, I might get up twice in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. Like might still need half an hour to get back to sleep. Like those nine hours in bed very quickly become six hours. Do you know what I mean? Totally. I think as well something that's actually become a really common topic in my friendship circle at the moment is burnout.

18:27How prevalent it is and how much it's happening to so many people who not only run their own businesses but who work in international roles. And like you were just saying before, Mads, I do global sales as well. we've got clients, we've got brands that are based overseas, we've got retailers all over the world. There was a time in my career where I was so available to everybody. And during that period, probably I'm going to say with the first five years of Sage, my burnout and my stress was so high. Like we're peaking. Like I remember when I got my cortisol tested and it was so high, but I was operating and I was functional and I was like, oh, so this is a good thing.

19:03And she was like, no, this is a sign to slow down, actually reassess how you can optimize that time and use that time which I think only now is something I'm trying to take actually no that's a lie in the last six months it's something I've really tried to focus on because one babies made me and it's just something that now like sleep has become such a priority to me and my well-being but it's so crazy seeing the shifts in myself and like my brain and how I can actually operate when I prioritize sleep versus when I look back at the girl that was running on constant adrenaline for so long. Like kicked goals, don't get me wrong.

19:37But was I happy? Was I healthy? Was I the best version of myself? I don't know. I'm surprised that so many are getting over like six hours. Yeah. Because I think our audience are kind of in that age bracket where they are working really hard and probably feeling pretty wired. You know, getting home, like anxiety is so prevalent. And I think anxiety and sleep like are just mortal enemies, but completely tied. Yeah. Yeah. And I think if you've never experienced issues with sleep, you probably wouldn't realize how debilitating it is to have a sleep disorder or have trouble with sleeping. Like I remember over COVID, I was a terrible sleeper and I'd never experienced sleep issues before.

20:16yeah never I don't know what it was about it if it was just causing me like underlying stress that I didn't realize on the outside or if I just had nowhere for my energy to go and that's what I put it down to I was like I was so used to being in an office every day and rushing there and then working hard and then you know coming home and doing what I needed to do at home and I felt like I was always on the go and then suddenly I was just sitting at home all day and I'm like yeah brain's not working this way it used to and my energy's not being burnt the way it used to and I struggled to go to sleep and stay asleep.

20:45So I really sympathize with those people that are experiencing insomnia or other issues with sleeping, you know, even if it's mental health related, because it really can completely drain you. And it's also really hard to resolve. And it might be a really long process of resolving that. So if that is you and you're kind of feeling bad about these statistics, like, oh my God, why am I not getting six hours sleep? Trust me, you're not the only person that is experiencing it. No. When has been the time of your life you've felt you've had the best ever sleep? Probably now. When I was in the womb, no kidding.

21:16Actually, yeah, probably, I reckon before starting Sage, if I'm being perfectly honest, really. And like, I've only just started to reprioritize my sleep and actually force myself because I'm so fucking tired all the time now to slow down and actually look after myself. But I'll be totally lying if I said now that like I am building this better relationship with sleep, I'm petrified for what's about to happen to that relationship in the next eight weeks when baby comes along. Like I've got to a point where I'm like actually feeling rested and recharged. That's going to be gone in a hot minute.

21:49That's good though that you've had that time to kind of reset yourself in that relationship with sleep beforehand. Yeah. Mine was actually during COVID my best sleep because I was running a lot. I over exercised during COVID for sure to use much to your point of like hello no surprises extrovert over here, like really missed that and really found that I needed to get rid of that energy somehow. So like doing, you know, I had this gorgeous girlfriend, Lou McRae, who was doing online Pilates classes for all of us. I would do that. I was running a hell of a lot. I was training for a half marathon.

22:21So it was almost like my body was so exhausted that it just had to sleep. Yeah. So I kind of knocked myself out. Overexerted in one area. And recharged. in the other. Thank you for finishing that. Next we're going to explore just how important sleep really is from a health perspective but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. The Australian Open has been incredible as per usual and best believe we'll be squeezing in a couple more visits not just for the tennis or the live music or the food but for the fashion. From the on-court style of players like Coco Gauff to Melbourne's most stylish punters the AO has become a certified cultural runway and brands like New Balance are leading the charge.

23:00This year, New Balance is doing what it does best, bringing fashion, sport and culture together at their very own New Balance store on the ground at the AO. Drop in before the tournament wraps up on February 1st and explore the collection that's built for the game and life beyond it. A huge thank you to New Balance for making this episode of Stylish possible. Okay, so sleep is obviously a pretty complicated thing and it's something so many of us struggle with, but we wanted to get an understanding of just how important it is and how it can impact our health. We reached out to Dr. Moira Junger, the CEO of the Sleep Health Foundation, and a health psychologist who specializes in sleep disorders, who told us that sleep is a crucial part of our health.

23:44She said it is just as important as your diet and your level of physical fitness. When we don't get adequate sleep, we are a short-term risk of feeling less able to concentrate, lower reaction times, lower alertness, risk of injuries and accidents. Longer term, we have a greater risk of mental health conditions being overweight or obese, cardiovascular disease, some cancers, and some dementias. In terms of how much sleep we should be getting, she says we need at least 7 to 9 hours per 24 hours, but it doesn't have to be all at once and unbroken. Some people can cope with morally sleep too, but 6 to 10 hours is the normal range.

24:21Duration of sleep is just one important factor of many. consistency timing and quality are also key factors okay guys how does that make you feel do you guys use an apple watch or an aura ring or anything to track your sleep no don't but i've actually been thinking about this lately and whether or not i should be yeah it might be time for me on the aura ring i know we've previously spoken about devices i think i opened up that like apple watch and i we got just a little too uh connected so i think sometimes it's important to be able to step away. And I mean, I think I also laughed on that saying like, you know, some girlfriends will be like, how'd you sleep?

24:56And they'll be like, let me check my sleep score. And I'm like, hey, you're a big girl. Do you want to recall your experience without the little ring telling you what you did? So Adrian actually does this. Really? But the reason that he does it is because he's a shift worker. So he likes to see what his average sleep was over, you know, a period of a few weeks. Because some night shifts, he could have a really bad night where he's awake the entire night working. And sometimes they'll sleep the entire night as well, which is not as common and they might only get one call or something that he's able to go back to sleep.

25:24So it just kind of depends on what that week looks like. And sometimes he'll have times where he's getting seven hours and that's on average. And he's like happy with that. But when it's looking like five hours on average over a period of a couple of weeks, you know, he's had a few really bad nights there, which he does speak about openly with me. And he's like, I am kind of concerned for my health because there is all these long-term risks. So I was already aware of that because he's a shift worker and that it's spoken about a lot with, I think like an OH &S kind of thing, that is a factor to be really mindful of your sleep and your sleep hygiene and all of those kinds of practices.