How copycat culture took over fashion and beauty

15:09Mads:It just feels like they are really not just dominating the conversation around dupe culture, they are dominating the shelves in those accessible areas where people are buying their beauty products. So not only is it the brand that everyone is talking about online, on TikTok, on Instagram, it is the product that you're seeing first and foremost. Like their shelf space would be huge. Yeah.

15:29Rhi:And I mean, when you are in a retail environment, whether it be fast moving retail like a supermarket or you're in a luxury retailer like Mecca, you ultimately are getting space based on your productivity or what you're trying to do in the positioning. I do not think that I am speaking out of school to say that Emco totally disrupted the Woolworths aisle of beauty. And, you know, I think it went from people being able to go in and buy a deodorant and their toothpaste from Colgate to people going in and having these full beauty experiences now. You can get a whole face of makeup from Emco. You can have a scented body mist from Gem.

16:10Rhi:You can have a body wash from Soma. Like you don't need to be leaving the supermarket to get your beauty essentials, which is very different to what that environment had previously been. It was tightly held that makeup area. The space that makeup has now in store is much, much larger in the supermarket environment.

16:28Mads:I think that accessibility piece and it readily available to consumers absolutely driving it. Mads, you are really passionate about this subject. We've had a lot of conversations on mic and off mic. What is your hot take on dupes?

16:40Rhi:I want to start by saying I have no negative feelings or shame that I want to elicit onto anyone who shops Emco. Girl, do what you got to do. I'm out here buying the dupes shoes. I'm out here, you know, buying the dupe of my favorite leggings. I get it. It's my personal experiences that informed this opinion for me. Why I'm so passionate about dupes, particularly makeup dupes, is that I was the senior marketing manager for Mecca in the makeup category. So by nature of that role, I spent a lot of time with brand founders and their senior leadership teams. So C-Sway, which is, you know, your CEOs, your CMOs, those kind of senior figures who, you know, are involved in the strategic operations of the business and the vision of where it's going.

17:27Rhi:Big decision makers. Yeah. You meet these largely females who have worked so hard by either being in the beauty industry themselves for 20 years or being makeup artists for 15 years that you start to realise the expertise and effort that goes into it. So seeing someone that you know and seeing the depth of knowledge and then watching that shamelessly get duped, it's hard. It's really hard to watch on a personal level. I mean, I take myself out of that. I'm adding in the subjective context there. If I go objectively, I think it's exploding right now because there's almost like this moral crusade against luxury at the moment.

18:06Rhi:Everyone wants to tear down someone who's charging too much. Everyone is outraged by something. It's exactly what Zara said about the what about me-ism. It's, you know, why wasn't this developed for me? So I think people love dupes because it's like, ah, thank you. You've made it accessible to me. And I think my hot take on dupes ultimately is that I don't have a problem and I don't shame anyone for buying dupes. Where I worry about dupes culture is that it flattens industry. It takes away time, effort, energy, and most of all creativity that goes into creating something, whether that be product, whether that be packaging, whether that be campaign.

18:49Rhi:I can't help but feel that jupe culture, you know, pulls all that back and adds unnecessary pressure to great brands that might emphasize those things to just be as quick as possible to market because you're so scared turning around, watching behind you, worrying someone's about to catch up. So I think, yeah, you know, there's three key points of hot take. Like you asked for one, but I gave you three.

19:10Mads:No, I think it's all really important context. And I totally understand looking at it from the perspective of someone who is in the industry. I am looking at this purely from the perspective of an average person who does not work in marketing, who's not exposed to what we are. I don't think they care. Yeah, agree. I don't think they care, Matt. Because the reality of it is they are getting a product that in some cases is lack for lack. I don't think every dupe is lack for lack. I myself have tried a couple and by no means would I be replacing my more expensive product. but there are some I will.

19:40Mads:And I do think the average consumer in the current cost of living, the current world that we live in, where you're looking to save money where possible, it is absolutely the preferred choice. And then you pair that with the accessibility piece. A lot of these luxury brands are only available in certain retailers. Emco is available in majority of these supermarket drugstore retailers. Those two elements are what make them the perfect pairing for people to buy their products.

20:07Rhi:Yeah. And for me, I guess my argument was always like, but there are mascaras for$18. If you want one, there's a Maybelline mascara, there's a Rimmel mascara. You know, I know I've spoken on this podcast before about my friend, Jamie Lupton, who has, you know, Monday hair care and has done days. And I mean, there's a way to dupe, right? And, you know, other friends of mine have Soma who, you know, are a body care range. They have body washers in Woolworths. And they're very like overt in saying they've, you know, Tom Ford, we love your fragrances. We just don't love your price. And those fragrances are definitely heavily inspired by, you know, these luxury fragrances.

20:46Rhi:But the bottle is different. The branding feels different. I'm like, it's not, you haven't gone and copied everything. And maybe that's what I've struggled to articulate to this point is I'm okay if you go and get Charlotte Tilbury Pillow Talk lip liner and you go, we know that's their best selling lip liner and we're going to go and try and create that perfect, you know, neutral nude. Where I have an issue and where I personally take issue is no thinking has gone into your packaging, your format. Like you've unashamedly gone and knocked off the entire thing. You are the channel bag in my eyes.

21:21Mads:That is their strategy. Yeah, it is. It is. It's like the performing strategy. Exactly. This is the thing at the end of the day, numbers do not lie. And the average person does not care that they are doing what you've said. And I know it's hard for you because you have these relationships and you're in the industry. And I totally understand. The reality of it is dupe culture is rife on social media. Social media has contributed, and I would almost say created dupe culture. This conversation is happening in the zeitgeist. In the Vogue business article that we referenced up top, they actually reported in 2023, hashtag dupe had 3.5 million views on the platform.

21:56Mads:Now it has over 6.3 billion. The reality of it is brands are responding to the demand and leveraging that momentum.

22:03Rhi:And customers and creators are clearly fueling it as well. They're seeing it and interacting with it. It's getting likes, it's getting views.

22:11Mads:It's really, really rife at the moment. As you said, numbers don't lie. They don't. Nothing says summer like a gin and tonic. And for us, four pillars, Rare Dry is our go-to. Rare Dry Gin is where it all began for Four Pillars over 10 years ago. The secret? Fresh whole oranges. Grown year-round in Australia, those oranges bring this bright citrusy lift that makes the gin so smooth and perfectly balanced. And when it comes to serving, keep it simple. Grab a glass, fill it with lots of ice, Rare Dry Gin, your favourite tonic, and finish with a slice of orange. That garnish is key. It draws out all those citrus notes and warmth.

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23:12Rhi:One thing that I've been festering on lately and I'm so keen to get your thoughts is when we originally did the Emco episode and we had social content go live, so many people went to bat for Emco. Like they were like, this is the brand of the people. This is my makeup bag that I can get for a quarter of the price, a third of the price. You know, people really loved the brand. I have to say, now whether that's because maybe I have the passions that I do and interact with the content that I do, but nonetheless still watch Emco, you know, content and interactions, I can't help but feel in Australia sentiment has slipped and that the number of creators that I'm seeing paid content from or this dupe is for this is not as prevalent as it was when we did the original episode maybe 12, 18 months ago.

24:00Mads:Maybe that's because the consumer is tiring from it and it does bring to question what is the longevity in this strategy, particularly for Emco because they are so overtly upfront about this being part of their brand DNA. Will the pendulum swing and potentially it become an issue?

24:17Rhi:Yeah. And whether it's dupe culture or whether it's just customers being addicted to the crack of something new.

24:22Mads:We have to be really transparent because, you know, we, there are layers of hypocrisy when it comes to dupe culture. And I do think dupe culture, where you sit on it will really vary depending on what your interests are. I can always make an excuse in the fashion category when it comes to dupe culture. I'm going to be really, really honest. I do think often about how differently dupe culture plays out in the fashion versus beauty industry. Why do you think we're okay with a brand like Zara duping high-end designers but when Emco Beauty does the same thing there's more backlash.

24:53Rhi:I'm guilty of this like I often joke that I'm a total walking contradiction because you know I'll sit here and say you wouldn't catch me dead with an Emco lip liner not to say I won't go and buy a$15 lip liner it just won't be an Emco one but I'm the first to go oh my god how good's this Zara top it's a total rip off of the Saint Laurent top. Maybe there's two parts for me. One is, um, I think conglomerates, I feel less guilt over. Like, I don't think Bernard Arnault of LVMH is going to worry if I have a jacket that looks a bit like the Louis Vuitton one. I don't think that's going to affect his bottom line because there's no world I can afford the$5 ,000 one.

25:29Rhi:But also because something about, you know, a little Australian brand doing it feels like they're punching up, not being punched down. What about you when you interact with something that you're like, that's a dupe?

25:41Mads:Well, when I first thought about this question, the reality of it is for me is I actually don't think there is less backlash. I still think there is as much conversation in the fashion category about dupe culture and how frustrating it is. In saying that, I think it comes from the perspective of small businesses being pissed off about brands stealing their creativity, stealing their IP and them not being able to legally do much about it or not have the legal powers to be able to fight that. I see a lot of conversations around that. A lot of slow fashion brands, a lot of local Australian brands being ripped off by other brands.

26:13Mads:And they're not necessarily conglomerates. They might just be a bigger business. And in that instance, I would say the conversation is important. I think it's really important that we acknowledge there is a difference between punching up and punching down. So I agree with you in that sense. I also feel it does matter when it's a bespoke design that feels really unique and intentional versus a white tee from the row that Uniqlo is doing the same one.

26:40Rhi:What's the IP there? So for me, like the perfect example of this would be if someone ripped off the puzzle bag. I'm like, yeah, I've got a problem. That's like, I have a problem there.

26:50Mads:But what about the Bottega Jodie Clutch?

26:52Rhi:Yeah, which I've got a ripoff of from Cotton On. So why is that different? It's a larger stitch. It's very clear it's not Bottega, although I did I did have someone who does own a lot of Bottega though say to me, I never knew they did that in that wave. And I said, they didn't. Cotton on didn't. Don't let me near an open flame because this will catch a light.

27:08Mads:So in this instance, I think the clear point of difference is if you're two completely different ends of the spectrum, you've got a Uniqlo that's duping a t-shirt from the row. Yeah. If it's a white oversized tee, fair game.

27:20Rhi:Play on. And Cos is the perfect example of this. Everyone always jokes that Cos is the affordable version of the row. I'm like, sorry, there's just a certain amount of stitching on a cashmere jumper. I'm just never going to be offended by, you know, or look at as a rip off. I'm just never going to go, well, that was identifiable enough for the row in the first place.

27:38Mads:Yeah. And in this, in our own backyard, I do get, I do get frustrated when I see local brands be ripped off by larger organizations. I've got a couple of examples of this happening. Harper Lou, they've been duped by international retailers, likes of AliExpress. It's a direct copy of that iconic dress.

27:54Rhi:Totally. The other one was Levan who have this really beautiful cardigan that's kind of become a bit of I would say a hero within their collections that they do each season in a new colour. They do the gorgeous little like silver bows on the buttons and that was ripped off by a fast fashion Australian retailer. Also I want to challenge us on this because dupe culture to me is not just product it's campaign and I've seen this done with Henny a little bit and what can happen a lot of the time is you kind of come up with your core team that you lean on creatively. This happens a lot in beauty and fashion.

28:27Rhi:You'll have a set photographer, you will have a set that you might use or a set style, you'll photograph or edit in a particular preset or, you know, Lightroom post editing. I have seen a lot of Australian brands of similar or larger size than Henny start to really emulate a lot of their lo-fi and hi-fi content that has become quite integral to their brand identity. That IP. To me, that's as much IP as the packaging you put your lip liner in.

28:55Mads:Well, it's a brand code because it adds to how you're able to recognize a brand.

28:58Rhi:One thousand percent. And, you know, God bless the Henny girls. I said it to Michelle, one of their founders, while I saw it with a coffee and pumped my chest on the street. She was like, no, we just stay in our lane and do our thing. I was like, you're a better person than me because I'm angry about this for you.

29:15Mads:I think you're angry about a lot of things in this episode. Okay, I've got a quick dupe debate for you. the Ghani Ballerina buckles. Do you remember these shoes? I own a pair, so you better. Yep. They retail for upwards of 500 Australian dollars. They were duped by a number of brands, including Steve Matt at H &M. Do you consider that hard done by for Ghani?

29:35Rhi:Yeah. And I acknowledge that that contradicts everything else I've said. And that's the best part about having debates like this, is that you're allowed to believe one thing and believe another as well. I felt sorry for them. The same way that I went and bought the Aliyah mesh ballet flat jute, because there's no world I'm spending$1 ,500 on a shoe that I will hate in two years. And I still felt sorry for Aliyah. And I still bought the$190 jute. It's, I acknowledge the total contradiction. I just feel so far away from that. And maybe had I have not, not even maybe, definitely had I have not worked at Mecca and met those brand founders and seen what goes into creating those products would I feel this passionately about Emco I probably wouldn't care

30:23Mads:one-tenth as much as I do yeah so I care from the perspective of that's frustrating because there's a lot of creative IP there it's a very distinctive look and design so for me it's quite obvious I think for a creative director or the designer of that shoe it would be quite frustrating but again the average consumer does not care because the price point is readily available it's more accessible if an H &M is going to be charging 60 to 90 dollars for the same shoe it's going to go off.

30:53Rhi:1000 % because the girlies love it they're seeing it on their Pinterest boards it's in their feed from their favorite creators overseas you know everyone wants to be the Gani Scandi girl it's you know and if you can get that for 90 dollars at H &M you're feeling one step closer to that and that fills your bucket. It's, yeah, it's a hard one. How do you feel when you unpack it or where are you, where are you the least affected by dupes and where do you feel, you know, rage that emulates anything I'm near?

31:24Mads:I care more when it's a local brand in our own backyard being ripped off by a bigger brand. I, full transparency, don't have that much of an issue with Emco in their positioning and what they're doing. I also, full transparency, don't have a big issue about luxury brands being knocked off.

31:38Rhi:Yeah. Interesting. Can I ask you a question? When it's local brands in our backyard, are you angrier when that big brand is international or when that big brand is in our backyard?

31:47Mads:In our backyard. Yeah. I do want to wrap this up with a really interesting example I found of a brand taking advantage and reverse engineering dupe culture. Yeah. I don't know if you saw this, but in 2023, Lululemon actually hosted a dupe swap pop-up in Los Angeles. So they actually encouraged consumers who had purchased dupe products of their famous Align leggings, which are notoriously duped in the US by the likes of Amazon. They encouraged them to bring those products to the pop-up and they would give them a free pair of the Align leggings.

32:15Rhi:I love this. I love this. I would love to see Charlotte Tilbury do this because I think that they're probably the brand that's been hit the hardest by Emco. I would love Charlotte Tilbury to be like, darlings, give me a shit and I'll give you the real deal.

32:28Mads:I think it's a great example. Charlotte Tilbury has already actually done this in a very playful, social way. And in their copy, they've got a tagline that they ran for a campaign where it was undupable. So it was making a direct nod to the fact that Emco had been trying to dupe them. I do want to come back to Lululemon because, again, they're just really committed to this anti-dupe campaign. So the Canadian brand actually secured the trademark on October 21st as first reported by the fashion law after filing to register Lululemon dupe. So they've

32:58Rhi:successfully trademarked that phrase. Which would mean that they could then sue anyone on Amazon or AliExpress or the like saying Lululemon aligned you. Correct.

33:08Mads:The other piece to it is they actually trademarked it for retail and advertising services linked to apparel, footwear, yoga and athletic accessories. So I think they're actually going to use this as a marketing tactic. And I have seen a few people say potentially it could be a really fun, playful build on that pop-up extension and the anti-dupe strategy, which also might swing the pendulum.

33:28Rhi:Yeah, I agree. And one thing that I would say is any brand that does marketing, and I'm glad you've spoken about them using it sort of in activation and how they might clap back, is from a brand perspective, you have to make sure that content is undupable. So my criticism of, say, Charlotte Tilbury, when they came out with the undupable, and they'd been silent for a really long time and then decided to clap was that it was quite lo-fi. They had their products on a fax machine and, you know, pretending to photocopy it and, you know, undupable coming out. That's something I could film in a corporate office.

34:05Rhi:And that's what Chemist Warehouse did as a clap back to the clap back. And I was like, guys, that content needed to be like, nothing's better than the real thing. Charlotte herself should have been in that. I always have this, I'm just going to plug my own great idea, was that there should have been all of these Charlotte Tilbury drag queens and Charlotte just emerged from the middle going, there's no thing better than the real thing. And I was like, you can't dupe that because you can't get Charlotte Tilbury.

34:30Mads:Yeah, that's quite clever. I do really like that. I do want to end on a question.

34:34Rhi:I love when you end on a question.

34:36Mads:Do you think dupe culture as a marketing tactic is sustainable?

34:39Rhi:No.

34:40Mads:Why?

34:41Rhi:No, not in the current way that it's coming about. I think, you know, that reference that I gave you of SOMA and the reference I've given you of Emco, I would say the SOMA style has the longevity to go the distance where the branding, the DNA and everything looks different, but the product, you know, or the good inside feels the same. I think when it feels like you're just control C, control V, I don't think there's longevity in that because I think the pendulum will swing and where excitement comes, outrage will follow and vice versa. And it will probably just keep swinging. So whether that's sustainable for long-term growth and building brand, no, I don't think it is, despite being the number one brand right now.

35:22Mads:Okay, I think we're going to leave it there. That's really solid to close out. Thank you, Maddy. That's all we have time for today. You'll hear Mads, Jo and Anika back on Wednesday. Feel free to email style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au or slide into our DMs over at stylishpod to keep the conversation going. Big thanks to our show's production team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. Mads, I'll see you in two weeks. See you in two weeks. Bye.

35:55Mads:This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.