How Emma Grede built billion-dollar empires – twice

0:05This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Merit, the minimalist beauty brand making you feel your best in minutes. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering their signature makeup bag with your first order at MeritBeauty.com. That's M-E-R-I-T Beauty.com.

0:26hello guys we are back i'm riannon joyce and today i'm joined by madison sullivan thorpe to be fair our little dynamic duo has been few and far between over the past few weeks got a great episode to be back with re i could not be prouder of you and this one oh my god this was a real tick box moment for me tick a box come on it's one of the biggest moments of my life i will We'll be honest. Oh, don't tell Louis Waddell that, your husband. It's up there. Rhi, you were lucky enough to interview Emma Grade, who we have spoken at length about on this podcast, but we're going to get into that very soon.

1:04You're going to ask me what my word of the week is. What is your word of the week? My word is nostalgia. It's not a surprising one, and maybe you're listening to this going basic. Whatever. It's not that it's basic. I just think it's very, very prevalent everywhere at the moment. It's everywhere. And I feel like it has been this recurring theme. It's like the ocean. It just swells every now and then and we talk about it more, whether we're talking about archives on red carpets, whether we're talking about content pillars and people using film and camcorders and all of these things. But where I want to centre it at the moment is two parts.

1:39One is Chanel. I could not have been more obsessed with the video that Chanel released with Margot Robbie and Kylie Minogue. And what I don't think a lot of people immediately realised, who were maybe a little bit younger, was that it was a nod to Kylie Minogue Come Into My World 2001 film clip. And we have Kylie sort of in the window singing it. She's a bit of a cameo. She's a cameo. Yeah. Yes. She's a guest star. In her own world. And Margot Robbie is the main character, cosplaying as Kylie in this, obviously in Head to Toe Chanel. And I was just like, snaps all round. This is such a great nod.

2:15I love that they're both Australian. That made me feel weirdly proud. tell me, we had spoken about Graham Norton and a little bit of breadcrumbing, which you'd liked as well. Yeah. I love when these things play out and you look back at maybe like a three to six month period and you realize, oh, we've been played as fools as if this was entirely organic and, you know, just came out of nowhere. It made me think back to this Graham Norton episode where Margot Robbie was featuring, and I believe she was promoting Wuthering Heights at the time, but she kept talking about Kylie Minogue. She's also just been quite vocal about how much she idolizes Kylie Minogue and sees her as an icon.

2:49And I did think that was quite funny that perhaps at that time, honestly, I would assume it was already in production at that point. So I think she knew what she was doing. Yeah, I think she knew exactly what she was doing. She probably stepped off the film set. Probably. Which I love. I love that level of strategic, you know, foresight to be able to breadcrumb that from that point on and then it play out in real time and everyone gets up and about. It was honestly, I couldn't open Instagram without someone sharing it on their stories. And I understand why, particularly the Aussies. Also, when you go into the comments on that post.

3:16Everyone, obviously it brings up everyone that you follow, but so many people that I would say like in my orbit that do not comment on celebrity posts or in the social realm at all. We're just like, oh my God, so proud, so happy to be Australian. Love this, love this. But the other nostalgia piece that I feel like I've seen a lot of in the last few weeks is Miley Cyrus returning as Hannah Montana for the 20th anniversary. And I've seen so many memes of like me in 2006 and it's like them with like a Dr. Pepper and then it's like me in 2026 and it's like them with a glass of champagne and Hannah Montana's on both screens.

3:50I just think maybe it's a tense time and maybe we feel a lot of comfort and familiarity in being able to go back and revisit films that we've watched or TV series that we've loved or you know characters or celebrities that we've had affinities with for 20-30 years so that we feel comforted. let's get into the main event the interview with emigreed if you have not heard of emigreed where you've been you probably haven't been listening to this podcast you're new here she is a business woman entrepreneur and fashion designer we have spoken about her at length on this podcast in fact i think had we have done a dream guest pyramid at the very beginning yeah vision she would have been on the top of the pyramid biggest image in my mood board vision board she would have been the a4 on You're A3.

4:40The jewel in the crown. She is well known for being the co-founder of Good American, the denim brand that she launched with Khloe Kardashian, a founding partner of Skims, which she co-founded alongside Kim Kardashian, and co-founder of Off Season, a brand that's collaborated with NFL, very much centred around that NFL paraphernalia and merch nostalgia. Rae, what do you think about all of this? God, I've been itching to talk about this interview. It's been under embargo for a few weeks now, So taking myself back, I was really nervous, obviously, because this is someone who I've idolized for a really long time, but she really bounced with me and like really took the bait.

5:20Like there were a couple of times where I was like, oh, I'm going to have a poke here. I'm going to be a little bit cheeky. I felt like she really lent in, which gave me also a lot of confidence in being able to push a bit more. Yeah. I love that that happened for you because I think, you know, more often than not, the saying goes, never meet your heroes. I had a deep gut instinct that she was going to be as fabulous, authentic and raw as she comes off. And I was so thrilled when you called me after the interview to be like, Mads, she's a dead set legend, which is such an Aussie thing to say. So Emma, if you're listening, dead set legend means tick, tick, tick, 11 out of 10 human.

5:54Yes. And a lot of the conversations we had did center around themes within her book, which I also read in preparation for the interview, but it is so stylish coded the conversations we had. We cover career, we cover, you know, women in leadership positions and women building businesses in the public eye. There is so much of stylish that shows up in this interview from the perspective of someone who is so highly regarded and so well respected. I'm so excited to get into it. Let's go. Guys, I think we can all agree that some mornings a full makeup routine is just not realistic. There's not always time for every step when you're just trying to get out the door.

6:27But those first moments of the day really do matter. Your morning impacts everything that follows. When I feel put together and feel confident in myself, I'm honestly just better at my job. Just like choosing an outfit that makes you feel good, it's not about doing the most. It's just about being intentional. That's where Merit Beauty comes in. They have truly changed the game. They've completely simplified the process with a really thoughtful, edited lineup designed for a quick five-minute routine. Everything is easy to use and gives you that natural polished look in just a few swipes. It's the kind of makeup that helps you feel like your best self without overthinking it.

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7:36Guys, right now Merit Beauty is offering their signature makeup bag with your first order at MeritBeauty.com. That's M-E-R-I-T Beauty.com. We will pop the details in the show notes for easy access. Happy shopping, guys. And thank you so much to Merit for making this episode of Stylish possible. This is a very surreal moment for me. I have the pleasure of sitting down with the incredible Emma Greed. Emma, thank you for joining us on Stylish. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I couldn't be more happy than to speak with you this morning, honestly. And for context, you're in London at the moment.

8:13It's early in the morning. That is true. It is early doors in London. I've been up for hours after not such a great night of sleep because that's the problem. The bloody jet lag from LA, it doesn't give up. No, given that we are based in Australia, we are all too familiar with jet lag. That 24 hour journey to London is always torture. Torture. Absolute torture. Now, I am really excited to start somewhere that I think a lot of our listeners will be surprised because I usually play in the fact space, not the feelings, but I'm going to go with the feelings in our first question. Go on, girl, you can do it.

8:49I would love to know what has been the loneliest part of building your career? It's actually a great place to start because I think that from the outside, you would imagine, you know, it's like I have really big teams and have had from for a really long time now. But the journey of being an entrepreneur is by default very lonely because it's really heavy. and the stuff that you know um really a lot of it ought not to be shared you know it's like the things that you want to convey to a team and you want to convey to your customers don't always line up with the reality of what you're building and what you're doing every day and I think that that is where sort of overall resilience and and attitude and I mean attitude really broadly right in like your default hard wiring to life like that's where that kind of comes in and I think is the difference between somebody that is really cut out for building businesses and somebody who's perhaps not I love that I have noticed a bit of a surge over the last few years you being really present and I found that shift interesting and I've loved it I follow your podcast aspire i follow you on instagram and i've loved seeing more of you to be honest i would love to know why now why are you leaning more into the personal profile and the advocacy piece yeah it you know honestly if you'd have gone back and asked me you know go back to the beginning of good american eight years ago i think i had one post on my instagram and it was food surprise surprise.

10:28But you know, it's really like that isn't my default nature. And I think what's happened as my profile is raised, I've understood how a how few models there are for women in culture in business more broadly. And I really kind of strongly disagreed with a lot of the rhetoric that was out there for women. I was like, that's BS. And that's not certainly not my experienced. And then, you know, I think it just comes down to like, just the sheer volume of questions I was getting, like whether it's in like DMs, or if I'm like a conference, or just on the street, quite frankly, people will always come up to me.

11:08And I don't think people are that interested in how I've done what I've done. I think people want to know for themselves how they can do it. And so for me, it became almost like something that was necessary and needed. And I think it's about, you know, what I'm trying to do is create this model for what is possible, but also to try to level people's thinking with what you need to actually do to be successful. Because I do think that there's a lot of messaging out there that actually holds women back. And I want people, specifically women, to understand that, you know, if you're ambitious, that's going to come with a level of discomfort.

11:46And if you want to get paid what you deserve, then that's going to require some audacity. And, you know, if you want a big career, then that's going to require you to have a level of visibility and proximity to the people that you're working for. And so there's all of this stuff that's out there. You know, I think about the messaging that we're all fed around having children and families. Well, families require timing, right? And there's no such thing as a perfect time to have a kid, but there is a biological reality. And so I really want to make sure that women have more power. And let me tell you, power has to be taken.

12:23Nobody is coming to hand it to you. And make no mistake, more than ever, we are in desperate need of women to have more power in the world, specifically right now. I think that example that you gave around the decision to have families is something that I feel right now in my life. I'm 33. I'm a corporate girly. I'm the chief commercial officer at Shameless Media. That is what I love doing. And looking down the path of what my future will be and making the decision with my husband to start a family and hopefully starting that process soon, that is the thing that I constantly feel I'm not seeing in the landscape.

13:02I'm not seeing people talk about the reality of that. So I really, really resonate with that. Yeah, I think it's really important because, again, for such a long time, women have been told to wait, right? Wait for the right time. Wait until you're older. And if you're 33, I'm sure you have a bunch of friends who are 37, 38, 39, 40, who have really struggled to have kids because they've waited. Now, listen, I'm certainly not going to sit here and advocate for teen pregnancy. But waiting until you're 38 years old equally isn't probably a very good plan. And so I think trying to think about this perfect time, the reality is that your life has seasons, right?

13:38There's seasons where you need to put the pedal to the metal and you need to put your career first. And there are seasons where you need to make space for the things that you want in your future. And so what I'm saying in and especially in this book that I've written, Start With Yourself, the reason it starts with vision and not with how to build a brand in a business is because holding a vision for yourself is one of the most important things that you can do. And that is the different, like, it's not about, you know, creating a vision board or manifestation. That is, what is it that I want in my life that I am willing to sacrifice for?

14:11And then being really skilled and really strategic about how you move forward and how you shape your life. And so that's what I'm really talking about. If having kids is important to you, great, but then you've got to make space for it. And you've got to have the conversation. And you can't imagine it's something that's going to come easy to you in your late 30s or early 40s. Because newsflash, it won't. Speaking of your book, I had the pleasure of having an early copy to prepare for this interview, and I found myself highlighting almost the whole book, to be honest. I love you for that. I love you for that.

14:43It was honestly, it was really validating. And that might sound a bit arrogant. It was like, oh, I have the same thoughts as Emma Greed. But there were so many moments where I did catch myself nodding. I'm highlighting things in yellow. I want to talk about one part of the book that that happened. So the commentary specifically was around founders building in public and relying on them being front facing. Can you share with our listeners why you think that can sometimes be a mistake? Yeah, because I think that somehow we've conflated this idea of fame and putting ourselves front and centre of our brands as success.

15:20And I will tell you that there is a period. And the reason that you think that you've seen me a lot in the last couple of years is because for the last eight years, I have been behind the scenes doing the grind and there are no cameras in the factory or at the vendors or behind my desk. And the reality is that it takes those two pieces, right? There's a time to be front and center and there's a time to be more behind the scenes. And I think that what we've done specifically for women is try like kind of conflate marketing the thing as the thing, right? It's like if you spend 95 % of your time on marketing and social, you will be missing logistics and distribution and finances.

16:01And the things that make a business are the less sexy things. And so I really want to get away from what I think is happening in the culture right now, which is much more around this idea of like almost like you can listen your way to success. Right. It's like that never, ever happens. It's like you have to really we have to be really honest about what success comes from and ambition has to find you or it has to meet you working. And there is no there is no shortcut. Right. There's just like there's a reality of what it takes to be successful and kind of watching successful people isn't the same as being one.

16:39You cannot listen your way to the top. It's like you cannot think that you can listen to a bunch of experts. And my kind of idea of what we're seeing in the culture, this idea of overnight success, feels like we've set a lot of people up to fail, right? It's like I've lived it. I've worked in corporate. I've worked as a consultant. I've started really big businesses that worked. I've started small ones that failed. I've started medium sized businesses that I'm still trying to figure out. And they all have one thing in common, right? There's nothing to it but to do it. You cannot be big in business.

17:11Theoretically, you've got to work your way up. You have to start from the bottom. You've got to put in the hours. You've got to do some kind of shit that you hate doing to get somewhere that you love. And all those steps are totally necessary. And so I think when we think about what it takes to actually be successful, we have to be honest about the things that are harder to do and perhaps come less naturally and how we ought to train ourselves into being more comfortable to do those things than the stuff that maybe comes a little bit more easily to us. Why do you think it has surged as a bit of a trend on social media, the front-facing founder journey?

17:45I'm taking you on the ride. Because it looks cute. It's easier to Instagram. Yeah. Let's be fair. The outfit's better on stage than perhaps it is in the office on a tough day. I really think that we're such an aesthetically driven culture that that has a huge part to do with it, right? And who doesn't? Like, you know, I would be a hypocrite if I sat here and said, I don't love, you know, being in some of those events and talking on a panel or having a keynote. Like those things can be extremely useful to your business. And founders that have a high profile can be very, very useful to their companies.

18:20But you can't kind of put the cart before the horse. You've got to have a great foundation of a company and an amazing product and a great story. and you've got to deliver to customers on time and you've got to have like a fully integrated thing happening before like the cherry on the top of the cake which is you going out and being front and center I think it's much more linked to you know the way that we want to be seen as opposed to what I think has really been important for me it's that I wanted to be successful my goal was to make a lot of money and have a lifestyle that matched my aspiration and that didn't kind of link back to me doing lots of things in PR.

19:02I love your candidness. I just have to call that out. I did also see that come through quite a lot in the book. And it's so refreshing, particularly because there aren't a lot of female voices out there at the moment who are saying what they actually think and saying it with their chest. So that was also something I really got in the book. Also, a couple of swear words in there, which I did resonate with as an Aussie. Oh my God, I have to tell you, when I read the audio book, I couldn't believe how much I swore. And I was like, oh my God, like my kids are going to read this. But you know, I write how I read.

19:34I'm super dyslexic. And so when I wrote the book, I spoke a lot into my phone and then rewrote and edited. And that's just how I speak. So I was like, you know what? It is what it is. You got to drop an F-bomb. Maybe it like drills down the point. I'm Australian, so I'm all for an F-bomb. And it also makes your personality come through as well. And it felt real. I was obviously reading it in your voice. I want to talk about, honestly, the entire chapter of leadership, but I can't because we don't have the time. But this was the chapter that I think I had like five or so questions. And my producer, our head of podcast, Lucy, was like, okay, I think we need to cut some of these down.

20:11But I am in a leadership position at Shameless Media, I have always been drawn to people who share their expertise and their experience in leadership. So in the chapter of leadership, you speak to not offering exit interviews. You said, and I'm going to quote you here. You're like, what did I say? I remember because I don't offer exit interviews and there's a really good, you say what I say first for the listener and then I'll answer you back because I and I'll tell you why it's a heavy heavy and big no for me all right so for our listeners you said you're going to get the opportunity to tell me to go fuck myself at the end why didn't you tell me six months ago I want people to tell me the truth in the moment so I bake this into the culture I well first of all I want to hear the why behind that on a deeper level and my second question is I'd love you to share a real life example of when that's happened and that you had to take accountability and responsibility for getting something wrong.

21:13Yeah, absolutely. So the point is when you're in business and you are doing something difficult, you make mistakes constantly as a leader, right? Like that's the honest truth, especially in this fast paced world where we're doing things often for the first time. I'm in the middle of an agentic AI e-commerce test. What does that even mean? Like, do you know what I mean? If you asked me six months ago, I couldn't have even told you. So the chances of me getting that right, leading it right, being able to guide my team through it in a way that is convincing, compelling and going to stack up as net positive for the company, it's very low, right?

21:50So the type of leader that you are, do you allow mistakes? How do you embed mistake making in your business? And what kind of culture do you operate from? I.e., are you like a blamey place that people feel like they're unable to make mistakes and they're going to lose opportunity? or are you actually a place that embraces mistakes and the learning that comes from it and actually embraces and lifts up the people that go, do you know what? Like this thing happened, I messed it up. Here's what went wrong. I've diagnosed this and here's how we need to do it. I know for a fact that it's better to have those people in the business.

22:25So the entirety of the way that I operate is to consistently show up with my mistakes, right? Because as the leader, if you operate from a place of like, empathy and transparency, you will encourage those behaviours in anyone around you. But it starts from you, right? It really does start with yourself because you have to show that in order to give other people the opportunity and the power to do it. So that's the first thing to say. On the exit interview thing specifically, what it means, you know, and honestly, in England, I don't know, 10 years ago when I had a company here, we never did exit interviews because the way that we worked was in, you know, and you know how it works today, you're constantly, you know, in some type of assessment cycle with people.

23:10But I am an in the moment person, meaning I am not waiting until your quarterly or half yearly review. And nor am I waiting for you to finish your employment with me to tell me how God awful it's been. And so if you institute that as the way of doing business, people are going to save themselves up where I'm like, in the moment, I don't have time. Like we need to move on. I need to be at the end of that meeting. I need the feedback to come in the moment. And I need to be able to give you feedback in the moment for us to have a relationship that is living, breathing, growing and going forward and is productive.

23:43Because at the end of the day, we're talking about business here. This isn't about your romantic relationships and finding the right time to have a difficult conversation with your significant other. This is business. We have an enterprise mentality. What's best for the company is what's best for the employer-employee relationship. And that has a sense of immediacy to it. So, yes, I'm not going to sit and wait for you to, you know, save up all the things that you need to tell me. But am I open to feedback and to criticism? I think that that is just a part of the way that I work but it's it happens in the moment definitely can you give me a real life example of when you have been faced with a situation where you've had to put your hand up and go oh I need to be accountable and take responsibility it happens honestly it happens so often um what is a good I'm trying to think of a good example of a time that I've had to do it I mean it honestly just happens all the time I make mistakes Like, for example, it can happen on a product.

24:42You know, it's like I can decide, oh, I've like, I remember doing like a giant problem for Good American. You remember when, you know, everything was super stretch for so long. And then all the girls started wearing like rigid, you know, vintage style denim. So I transferred everything. I was like, okay, guys, like we're going to be like the non-stretch company now. Well, of course, like with a curvy customer, that's really difficult. But that like those decisions can cost you millions and millions of dollars. They take a lot of time because a design team is going to need to change everything they do.

25:13But when it's like from the top, when it's something that you're like, we're going this way and you reorientate the whole company and you change the way that you shoot, the change the way you're developing, you're changing the way that you're designing, you're changing your language and your copy and your emails and the whole thing. It becomes a monumental mistake. But like that would, if I wasn't making mistakes like that, I wouldn't be in it and I wouldn't have any upside. And so for me, again, it's not about torturing yourself also. And I just want to reposition again, the way to think about mistakes, because the truth is, and I talk about this a lot in the book, one of the things that we have to do is separate, like making a mistake in business and then putting that on ourselves.