Influencers make money when you shop. Should you care?

0:19Hello and welcome to our fortnightly episode of stylish. I am Madison Sullivan Thorpe and I am joined by my fortnightly co-host Rhiannon Joyce. Hello. Otherwise known as bad gal, we're in routine. We've got rhythm. We've got flow. We've got flow. I mean, hilariously, I did just go to do the Wednesday intro of stylish. I'm like, oh God, I'm in such routine pattern now. I've got to get out of it and like get into the fortnightly. Bring the fortnightly one front of mind. Front of mind. Talking brand. Talking business. Talking campaign. Talking strat. Juicy one today as well. Juicy one today. I'm excited to get into it.

0:54We both put up an Instagram story on our DMs asking our listeners what they thought of LTK and other affiliate platforms. And holy hell, I think collectively we've had like 500 plus responses. Wild. I have never received so many replies off a question box, which one is so bloody humbling. Guys, come at me for other things other than what you think about affiliates. People were like, tap, tap, tap. It's our turn to be on the mic. Mike is on and they're on here. They're on. And so great that we've had so many of those answers that we've been able to integrate and come from those points of view. But before we get into it, we love a word of the week.

1:34Rhi, what's your word of the week? My word of the week is, again, not one word, it's two. Don't kill me. But you've picked up on the trend now that we just make this what we want. Sexy tops. Oh. Yeah, I'm in my sexy top era. Oh, I love a sexy top. You know I love a sexy top too. I feel like you've influenced me a little. Okay. And I've got the top in mind for you. That's your sexy top. Can I guess? Yes. It's the Senagmi top. I just love, I'm really into, this sounds random, but I'm really into getting my back out at the moment. Yes. I'm like, I just like the way it makes me feel. I feel sexy. I also like the combination of wearing a sexy top with like loose pants or parachute pants and that contrast.

2:15Yeah. But yes, the Senagmi one that I have that is on my Instagram as well. if you don't know what I'm talking about, I think it's like the second or third photo on my grid. Great. It's this beautiful white. Don't you dare upload another photo and fuck that grid now. I know, I won't, I won't. No, it's this white halter neck top from St. Agnew and it's pretty much like backless. But I'm just constantly gravitating towards sexy tops and pant combinations at the moment. Mads, you are, I would say, one of the OG sexy top gals. What are your recs for sexy tops? I mean, I don't want, these are expensive recs.

2:45That's okay, please. Just caveat, caveat, caveat. be up. Yeah, I'm giving it to you guys. Look, St. Agni are definitely a go-to for me. I have an amazing strapless top from them that's like held by like the tiniest little buckle. But I adore that top. It's quite flowy at the front, which I love, but then sexy at the back. Wardrobe NYC. And I caveat this by saying I've never bought anything from Wardrobe NYC full price. One could only wish, but those price tags are exorbitant. But they often go on sale. And I got those tops, I think for like 180, 200. And every time I wear it, people are like, where is that top from?

3:18I think I wore one to your. You wore one to my recovery, the blue, icy blue one. It's stunning. I remember. I've literally clocked in. And Henny have started doing a few sexy back tops. So I'm not one to get my cleavage out, but I'm definitely one to get my back out. Yeah. I would say Massimo Dutti as well. Massimo Dutti. I feel like I need to stop playing Italian music and giving like my little hurts. Massimo Dutti. Zara also have quite a few good options at the moment. So if you're looking for a mix of high, low, you've gone high, I'm going low. Yeah. Must know, it's still kind of expensive, but Zara definitely can find some cheaper options.

3:53I wore a top in Italy, probably the most asked outfit that I've ever worn, which really surprised me. This is like the best sexy top rack I'm going to give. It's a high neck black lace top that's like asymmetrical. It has just dropped on Zara Australia. Maybe we can pop it in the show notes. It is such a beautiful top. I wore it with a matching pair of like black silk pants. That's what I love. But with jeans too, like that undone and done look. I love that. If anyone else has any great recommendations for sexy tops, reach out, share with me, drop them in the DMs. I'd like to see because I'm going to be adding to my sexy top collection.

4:29So as we touched on at the start of this episode, we were inundated with both positive, negative, neutral responses to affiliate programs. Mads, I think it's really important up top that we explain to the listeners what are affiliate programs because I feel like they're everywhere at the moment on social. There's a bit of headlines in the news coming out. Do you want to give us a quick analysis of what affiliates are? Yeah. So affiliate platforms or affiliate links are essentially designed for brands to be able to track the conversion and the value of an influencer's, I guess, promotion of the product.

5:04So in really basic terms, you post something and someone goes through to that website via that link, buys something for$100, that influencer gets a kickback and that brand can see how many people click that link from that influencer. So it's a unique code per influencer, so to speak. Yeah. So it's a trackable link, which means that a brand can identify whether or not that Info is actually converting product as well. So is it working? Isn't it working? It's a really good way to measure the effectiveness of a campaign. And it's not just influencers that use them. A lot of publications do use them as well.

5:41Very well known in the media industry for online publications, digital publications to be using affiliates, also streaming platforms. Apple has affiliate programs. Yeah. And I think we're hearing a lot about affiliate platforms at the moment because the reason we wanted to do this episode was because it felt like in the last two or three weeks, there's been this influx of conversation about affiliate marketing. Sephora have announced that they're coming out with their own affiliate platform in the US. Condonass have announced the launch of their own affiliate platform. Sophia Ritchie Grange was announced as an investor in Shopmy.

6:13I think we're seeing a lot of conversation now. It kind of feels like it's evolving outside of this niche, exploratory influencer marketing space that brands or publications are dipping their toe into and And it's now, okay, this is mainstream. We can't ignore it anymore. Dare I say the future of the creator economy. I feel affiliates are going to be. Double down. Say it with your chest. Double down. No, there was a time, honestly, two, three years ago, I remember when some of the major affiliate partners like LTK is probably the most well-known, I would say, in the Australian landscape, but there are others globally, as you touched on.

6:50Also, Shopmire is a very big one in the US. But I remember when LTK cracked into the Australian market a while ago now, but I only really became, honestly, Mads, I became familiar with the platform because of you. I'm going to call it and say, I feel like we are really well-placed and informed to be having this conversation. And at the end of the day, when we're sitting behind the mic, the goal is to be objective. But at the end of the day, there are also some subjective opinions that we have being users of the platform and also being on the platform. And we're going to come at it from both perspectives and make sure that this is a really well-rounded episode.

7:20So you guys know that we're considering all aspects of what this means for you guys. I also feel that personally, I get to come at a double layer of what it means for brand because I have sat on brand marketing, consumer brand marketing side for the better part of 10 years. And I think conversion counts. And so I also come at the lens of that, not just as a user of the platform, but what affiliate in general does for brands and means for brands. Absolutely. And as I said, we're going to focus predominantly on LTK given in the Australian landscape. That's the most well-known and used app. Yeah.

7:54I want to talk about LTK because there are some really impressive stats. So it's actually the largest influencer marketing platform with tens of millions of monthly consumers. They have over 350 ,000 content creators and over 8 ,000 retailers and 1 million brands. So in terms of numbers, this is a serious powerhouse in the affiliate space. it also powers over 5 billion in annual merchandise sales so we're pushing a lot of product through ltk oh yeah and a lot of people are using it so even though in australia it's still i would say in the progressive phase oh yeah i don't even know if that's a technical term i would call it but i wouldn't say it's super established in australia i asked my friends how many of you use ltk and more than half of them said they don't so it's still got work to do in terms of it being part of everyone's shopping habits.

8:46But in the US and in Europe, it's definitely got more of a stronghold. Oh, in the US, it's a completely different ballgame. It's not uncommon that creators don't even upload on their socials anymore. They're uploading directly to LTK. The way that we would open Instagram or TikTok without a second thought, their behavior in the US is very much just opening LTK to scroll, be inspired to shop and do all of those things. It's second nature to them. Here, I think you're very right. We are on the early part of the curve. Yeah. So I want to kick off this episode. I really do want to understand Mads.

9:19As a content creator, and we did touch on this before the episode, I don't know, Mads squinting at me, but we're not full-time influencers. We work full-time. You're self-employed. I work full-time for Shameless Media. We do content creation on the side, bit of a passion project, there is also a passive revenue stream for us to make money. And LTK forms part of that strategy. Can you tell the listeners what your experience with LTK is? Totally. I want to start, I'll take you back to a time. If I go back to, I want to say 2022, maybe 2021, I think 2022. Let's go with 22. I uploaded a dress on Christmas day.

10:03I honestly think I maybe had 2000 Instagram followers at this point. So you can just assume that's friends, friends of friends and family. I uploaded a dress that I was wearing on Christmas Day and everyone was like, oh my God, love the dress. Now I indulged in too many bubbles on that Christmas day, didn't reply to anyone because I was obviously having way too good of a time at my friend Miranda's family Christmas. Shout out to you, Miranda, saving me that year. But the next day I got an email from Lee Matthews that they were having a Boxing Day sale. The dress was like 70 % off. So I took a screenshot of the dress, shared it on my Instagram stories and was like, girly pops, 70 % off run, don't walk, drop the link.

10:38Didn't even know you could put a link on your Instagram story, but discovered it that day. I know, boomer. Anyway, I had so many people replying being like, oh my God, what else is on sale? Like, what else are you loving? So then I uploaded like 10 other things that I liked on Boxing Day sales that were like deeply discounted. Essentially a couple months went on. I got back into the office after the Christmas break. Everyone was like, I was obsessed with that. And so I started this Instagram series called Sales Fairy, started a story on Hanbuck. And this was like literally, like, I was just like going through a really shitty breakup and thought that was like a really fun way to like spend my evenings instead of crying in my bed.

11:14So one of my girlfriends who was a creator and had hundreds of thousands of followers was like, you know that there's like an affiliate platform you can use where you get a kickback when you're sharing it. And what very quickly transpired was that 2000 followers slowly but surely was getting bigger because I think my friends were telling their friends and their friends were telling their friends. And so I joined LTK at a time I wouldn't have defined myself as a creator, as Ray alluded to. I'm squirming even at the thought of saying that now. Essentially, I joined LTK probably before I had a platform to really warrant it, but slowly but surely started making money from it because I was embedding LTK links, which meant that when someone was clicking on my Instagram stories, I would make a percentage of revenue.

12:03Now, I'm not talking life-changing. Yeah, let's clarify that. Let's really define this. Rhea and I talk about this a lot. One common misconception that I think is out there a lot is that people are making life-changing money and that might be so in the US, but it's certainly not for me anyway, personally. No, definitely not for me as well. Because the percentage that you make varies via retailer. So I know you mentioned LTK have a million brands on there. Some of those brands like cosmetic brands have higher commission versus a fashion brand could have anywhere from two to 10%. Yeah. So that very commission also makes it hard for you to, honestly, it really does depend on the product and the retailer, how much your potential earnings are.

12:42But I, my experience is it really depends on the work that you put in as an individual. I'm going to be really straight. I do not have time to do LTK links for every single product that I am wearing. I also don't do it for every single product. So I do post stories in my outfits. Some of them I do link on LTK, others I don't. I will always try and tag the brands. And it was really interesting, and we'll get into the DM shortly, what the sentiment is around how influencers show up with LTK or, you know, just general gatekeeping as well. That felt like it was a bit of a sensitive point. As an LTK creator and user, I find it's most helpful when I'm wearing something that's a more high street brand.

13:24So if I'm wearing something in Australia, the context being dish, henny, something that's readily available, perhaps on a more well-known retailer, such as the Iconic or David Jones. Generally, if it's from one of those sites, then I'll link it on LTK. But for more of my eclectic outfits, one, those retailers or those brands usually aren't available on LTK, which I do think is a really important clarification. Not every brand is available, which means you can't link every product or brand or retailer. Which is my personal criticism of the platform. And I know, as you said, we'll get into some of the feedback, but authenticity came up a lot for me in the DMs.

14:02Like it doesn't feel authentic or not everything's linked and then that feels shady or that doesn't feel like it's authentic to what they're wearing if they're doing something like it, but not it. I feel like that barrier of inauthenticity could be removed if you could link things that you weren't necessarily making commission on, but could still be supporting retailers. But also from a business side, I understand why LTK are not allowing those brands on there because then you're benefiting off the platform without having to pay to be on there. Next, we're going to dive into what our followers on our personal IGs think about influencers using these type of platforms, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

14:43So as Ray mentioned, we had a lot of DMs. Like honestly, this was overwhelming. We thought it would be fun to read just some snippets of what we received and there were so many. So if we don't get to yours. Please don't be offended. Some of mine were hilarious. The first one was, oh my fucking God, influencers profit off LTK? I was today years old when I learned this. I had a few of those too. Another was, I like sussing the details of influencers' outfits via LTK links and feel a kickback is fair. But then in total contrast, I had people saying, personally, I don't love it as it detracts from authenticity of the recommendations.

15:20Yeah. Similar vein to what I received as well. I had someone come to me and say, I like knowing they're rewarded when they're showing me cute stuff. It's part of their job. Also had don't care. I don't mind clicking through to their LTK if they are providing inspo. This one is quite nonchalant and I do like it. LTK is okay. Literally, okay. I hate undisclosed gifting or experiences, but that's unrelated. So that's an interesting point I wanted to make as well. People were kind of grouping that with this, not disclosing that things are gifted as well. and we'll get into a bit of that later. But I did have a couple of meaty ones that people went to the effort to actually send me a DM, not just a quick reply in the question box that we put up that I wanted to read that show you two different ends of the spectrum.

16:02So this follower wrote in, I find LTK icky influences and businesses, even if they're one person, brand collab sponsored posts are better in my opinion, because it seems more upfront and transparent. LTK encourages a cycle of repetitive consumption, both from the influencer and their audience. It also encourages cookie cutter dressing, not skillful styling. I way prefer to see influencers who have slowly curated vintage thrifted wardrobes or repeated outfits. There are some epic creators in this space. So that's leaning more towards the anti-affiliate side in pro positive affiliate territory. As someone who has a small following and shares links along with using the platform as a consumer, I am for it.

16:43I love being able to find pieces all in the one spot instead of searching through comments if someone doesn't tag the brand. I also think if someone is putting the time into curate product collections, let them have their very small commission from your purchase. It literally makes no difference in your end except showing you support the creator. One thousand percent. Also, like, Sales Fairy essentially became free personal shopping. Absolutely. And, like, I've paused it at the moment, but people were very demanding. Like, I had to turn off Instagram notifications because people were like, that's sold out in my size.

17:19Where else is it available? And I was trying to help people. But essentially, I started integrating LTK because I was like, this is taking hours of my time. When someone's curating something, they're doing that for free. I can see it from both sides. I definitely lean more towards being pro-affiliate in the sense that at the end of the day, people have agency and control. It's a choice if you want to support that platform. In saying that, if it hasn't been disclosed to you or you're not actually aware that LTK is an affiliate platform, there's a bit of an education gap there I feel like we need to work on or maybe in the instance of an influencer, maybe they're not necessarily being transparent about it.

17:57I've assumed that a lot of people know that LTK is an affiliate program. Yeah, I've made that assumption too. And I think that's a fair assumption to make. I think I would agree with that. Coming back to the person who is quite anti-LTK and affiliate programs, I do agree that it does encourage mass consumption and generic styling in some ways. It's pushing out a lot of product constantly. And again, I'm going to center myself in this because I think that's the most fair and reasonable thing to do. I don't post on LTK all the time. I don't post every outfit I wear on social media with the intention of making money off it.

18:31Sometimes I just want to post my outfit because I want to share my personal style. I want to show off the eclecticness and that outfit might not be available on LTK or it might be. I will pick and choose when I want to use the platform in a way that feels authentic to me. But I can see how people fall into this trap of only using LTK to make money or to push product and to push that out to the mass. And I do take a little bit of an issue with that. Ultimately as well, where I land is that it's because that's not your full-time job. I feel we'd be having a very different conversation if we were two full-time content creators, because if that is one of your most solid streams of revenue, then yes, I think you are putting in the hours and the work, hoping that by sharing your outfit, you are in a way converting.

19:17And I guess my issue with the conversation around the mass consumption piece is how is this any different to paid influencer activity, to paid content that brands have created being pushed, to editorial and magazines? Like we live in a world that encourages consumption. this is just another form of it ultimately I feel that the anger is being directed at the influencer when really this is a much larger ecosystem definitely a bigger ecosystem I do think everyone plays a role in contributing and being conscious of like how you're contributing to that system but I do agree with you there is a lot of emphasis on the influencer being the one who's in the wrong and that came through a lot in the DMs yeah so we've spoken a lot about I guess consumer point of view influence a point of view.

20:05And as I mentioned, working consumer brand side, I think brand point of view is really important. I had one great soundbite that came through from a listener. She said, I think it helps showcase they're making an impact and reaching their audience. They've got metrics to back up financial investment they're requesting from brand side. A lot of creators name a price for content based on reach and not necessarily results. For a brand, its conversion and reaching an engaged, invested audience that matters. This is a very important point I want to make. The Australian influencer economy is very small.

20:40Like in comparison to the US, just by nature of our population, we are a much smaller creator environment. But just naming a price, like it's wild to me that for so long, Australia has operated on creators going, A reel is this much. A TikTok is this much. An Instagram story is this much without any metrics of going. There's no like industry standard or metrics. Totally. And reach is one thing, but everyone knows reach does not mean conversion. And by conversion, I mean you watch something, you interact with it, and you go and click through to read about it or you click through to shop it. Like affiliate programs enable brands to go, bingo, that influencer converts for us or that influencer achieves reach but doesn't convert.

21:25And depending on your campaign, you can be trying to achieve one or both of those things. So I thought that was an interesting take just to give you the perspective of brand. Absolutely. And very fair and reasonable and good context for people who aren't in the marketing industry and maybe don't have that perspective. What about influencers making money from items that have been gifted? This was a really divided one on the stylish IG. We actually asked you guys what you think about influencers making money from items that have been gifted. We had on one side, I don't have a problem with it. It's their job.

21:58And then on the other, I think it's icky and I don't trust it. I really do think this shows how divided people are on this topic. What's your take? Yeah, I've got an interesting take. It's hard not to be biased in this because, as I said, when I started using affiliate platforms, I had a really small audience. And for whatever reason now, that's a bigger one thanks to, I don't know, like sales fairy, stylish. Sales fairy, stylish, your own personal brand, like your presence on social media has grown. So by design, your influence has. Yeah. She's squirming. I'm squirming so much because I really still, I still don't define myself as either of those things.

22:36My words, not yours. Let's take Henny and Veneroy as a perfect example. I've been a lover of those brands. Probably I've been shopping Henny since Henny was stocked on Connection before they had their own site. Like, girl's an OG. Then Van Rory as well, you know, God, I've like shopped their jumpers, their sweats, you name it. Now, interestingly, I've shared those pieces on LTK since the beginning of Dawn. Now, those two brands have access to that data through those platforms. They've obviously seen that that converts for my audience. And now they gift me pieces. I still shop both of those brands.

23:14I want to be really crystal clear on that. I would spend more with Henny than what I'm gifted with Henny. And also what I know about my audience, thanks to the LTK backend, is the amount of money they're comfortable spending. And the price points of Henny and Venroy lend themselves to that. I share things that I've bought and I share things that I have been gifted. I would only ever, and I cannot emphasize this enough, only ever share something that I have been able to pick that I have free agency to choose and style how I want. I'm not sharing it because it's being gifted to me and I sure as shit won't post it if someone sends me something without asking me what I want or what I've been allowed to choose.

23:54No, it's curated and it's tailored not just to your own personal style but also your audience. And it does frustrate me sometimes when people refuse to acknowledge that as a creator, there are at times things where you will be gifted something. I think we're misdirecting the frustration of it being gifted, we're misunderstanding that that is just part of the process. What I agree is frustrating is when people do not disclose it. So a caveat a lot of people had was that they didn't mind as long as it was clear the item was gifted. People also said it depends on the influencer. Are they constantly posting?

24:29Does the item seem genuinely aligned to them? Which is probably what I sit on that side as well. That's where I would always give people the benefit of doubt, that caveat feels really fair to me. And I think that's consistent with a lot of the results we had in our DMs as well as we've seen right here in the stylish survey. If you're wearing things and fronting the camera and saying, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this outfit. I bought this top from Venroy and you didn't buy that top. That is genuinely misleading. Totally. And it's funny as well, because I think people go, oh, you're gifted everything from Henny.

25:03And I had someone message me being like, oh, you didn't even buy the Valentina jeans and you were raving about them. No, no, girl, I bought the Valentina jeans and I bought the Gisela jeans. And then when I got my sixth pair in a different color, they were gifted. So for me, I'm like, no, when I say I buy, I buy. And so it is funny to me though, because where I think the frustration comes from is if it's gifted and you're posting it for the sake of posting it. For fashion, I've never accepted anything from a brand I haven't personally shopped previously. And where I think the frustration comes from is that creators are just posting outfits that they're being gifted going, well, I can make money off this.