Leave my chin hair alone! I want to drink wine!

0:28Shameless Media Oh! Merch, merch, merch, merch, merch. Guys, this isn't a visual podcast, but what I'm holding up is a very cute cap with a little wine glass on the front or two wine glasses. Fitting for two women who like to drink wine. Funny that. Funny that. And on the back, we've got a little bit of branding, a little bit of stylish merch. I would tell you to put it on, but you've got the slickest back bun I've ever seen. Sorry, it's not really going to work. I'm going to include a link in the show notes to our new stylish merch. Guys, it's so cute. and we really want to see a walking billboard out there and some physical representation of how much you love listening to us every week.

1:05Maddie's laughing because she's like, you've gone full in for the sell. She's gone full sales pitch on you. Do you know what? Here's just like a get the cap so the girls that get it, get it. Represent stylish if you love us. We'd love to see you out in the wild. It's so cute. I think Steph Lamb, who did the design, has absolutely nailed it. It's kind of got a bit of a baseball vibe about it. Thank you for indulging me with my little hijack. Well, you know, I love wearing a cap on a dog walk with Doge, so you'll see me at the dog park with Georgie Boy and my cap on. Very cute, guys. Happy Friday.

1:36Welcome to our fortnightly Friday episode. Whoop, whoop. I'm Rhiannon Joyce, and I'm joined by the wonderful MST, Madison Sullivan-Thorf. How are you doing, Mads? I'm doing well, really. I'm excited for this air. It's a little bit of a passion point of ours. I've never seen you so passionate about something, so can you tell us, what are we talking about today? Rhiannon Joyce and I were at the pub on Friday the other week, and we were chatting with, I think we were all up, there were five or six of us. Five or six, yeah. And we were sitting there and we were talking about, funnily enough, the peptides episode that we had done, which is one of our most downloaded ever.

2:04It's actually officially the most downloaded episode of Stylish. Said what I said. Yeah. Anyway, it's Stylish or Stylish Fridays? No, no, Stylish in general, I'm pretty sure. Ding, ding, ding. Wait, I think I lied, but that's fine. Carry on. And we were talking about like peptides, obviously still a massive topic across Australia and globally. But we were also just chatting about this like longevity obsession. And we were talking about an article that had recently been released about Brian Johnson. He is the guy known for biohacking and just he is obsessed with living as long as possible. Like he's made it his whole brand.

2:41He is determined to live forever. And he's hit mainstream media because he's basically shared all the things that he does during the day to live forever. He's like the Nara Smith of longevity. Yes. So that's what we're going to chat about today. But before we do that, Ri, I'm so thrilled because I feel like I've had 52 words of the week in the last few Fridays. So it's your turn, baby girl. You actually fed this to me. Mads has this habit of like, it's my word of the week. And then she just DMs me. He's like, you should use this as your word of the week. And unfortunately for me, they're always better than my actual word of the week.

3:10So then I have to quickly go in and delete it. So my word of the week is Unfash. It was an Instagram account that you shared with me, Mads. So credit where credit's due. They did this really cool post that Juicy Couture did the OG influencer event. and it takes you all the way back to LA in the early 2000s. Guess who you would see at this event. It was so good. It was like Giselle, Jessica Elba. Who else was there? Oh, just like all the 2000 icons and they're all wearing the most juicy couture outfits you've ever seen and they're doing this full pampering day. I think it was at Chateau Marmont.

3:40I can't remember exactly. Of course it was, but it was just like, literally I've never seen so many tanks in low-rise jeans. I was like, oh, true religion was having a time. But do you know what I also loved was the flash in the photography. Like it was so 2000s coded. And I'm like, this is literally what we're trying to do with the Tezza app right now. It just is hilarious to me. The reason why I love the post is because it gave a really cute, short and sharp, I would say, synopsis of how Juicy Couture were really the ones who pioneered influencer events. At that time, influencers didn't exist.

4:09The celebrities were the influencers. But the ethos and the concept of, you know, hosting them, entertaining them with these luxurious experiences, you know, they were getting manicures, they were getting their hair done. they were able to pick their favorite outfits and then documenting that and then sharing it in press. Like that's not too dissimilar from how influencer marketing is operating today. So it's a really cute little post. We'll link it in the show notes. You can check it out. But I love that page. So thank you for introducing me to it. You're so welcome. God, it makes me sound like a control freak for word of the week.

4:36But I swear, I just thought it was really good. And I was like, this is great, Ray. You should have a look. I agree. And also mine wasn't that good. What was it? I don't know. Maybe I'll use it next time. Okay. Let's get stuck in, Ray. Let's go back to the pub. Let's go back to the pub, but let's also start with the ads. So Rhea and I have religiously drunk AG1 for a long time. It's like a running joke that it's like we're kind of like culty about it. But Iron Mate have kind of very quickly come up as a key competitor for AG1. Again, they're both like a daily subscription model supplement that you buy a 30-day, you know, subscription of and it gets delivered to your door every week.

5:12Now, Iron Mate's kind of come out like a bull out of a gate. They've got a host of celebrities that are kind of spokespeople and shareholders within it. There's NBA players. There's David Beckham. Sabalenka? Sabalenka, I'm pretty sure. They've really gone hard in the tennis sphere, particularly off the back of Wimbledon at the moment. I saw a lot of posts. A lot of posts. But one thing that is crazy about IMA is like their Instagram is very curated and hi-fi, like polished. But their meta ads. I've actually been in Meta's back end. they have over 1200 active meta ads like whoever is working in their meta team is hustling but these ads are hyper targeted and I sent a screenshot to read because I've been served a lot of them like I've bought IM8 before so I'm like why are you targeting me this much one was like 32 and acne question mark chin hairs question mark wait what about the one that I got served because when you send it to me I you know when you see something on Instagram and you watch it and you go, wait, that's kind of fucking weird.

6:13Wait, is this really about me? Literally, that is what happened to me. But I saw a different Iron Maid ad. It was one which was like, are you in your 30s a female and drinking too much? And I was like, whoa. I just got back from Italy. I was gone for two weeks, like attacked. And then the whole purpose of the ad was to tell me how I could reduce bloating. But it opened with this huge neg that obviously resonated with me because I'm very insecure at the moment about how much I've been drinking. Ray and I were laughing. We both got served each other's ads and we were like, wait, is like IronMate in our phone?

6:45But with 1200 meta ads, you better believe they can hyper target. And I think it's really interesting to compare that to AG1, who is their main competitor they're absolutely going head to head with. Only had like 200 or something. What I want to call out with the IronMate piece is it's less about IronMate and more about how women are being marketed to with this whole theme of longevity, right? because the two ads that we got are very different to what I would assume one of the boys is getting, which is likely more performance-based or more gym-based. I would assume, Dol, I can confirm. Okay. I am honestly like my shtick with this and maybe why it's my Roman empire right now is because this entire breadth of longevity marketing is attacking female insecurities.

7:30You've just said it yourself. You're insecure about how much you're drinking right now. I'm insecure about the fact my skin is up shit creek without a paddle right now. Chin hairs, no, there is one. I get it with my tweezers. It really is about insecurities. I am willing to guarantee the way that brands target men is about performance, bro gains in the gym. It's like very positive of how they can make what they're doing better. For women, it's about your, you You know, perimenopause, your hormone state when you're trying to have a baby, what's going on with your skin? You know, it's all about like, you know, reversing damage or preventing damage rather than, oh, you're doing great.

8:12Do better. Yeah. I also think the advertising of longevity or longevity marketing makes sense in this space. It feels like it should be in that space of like wellness when you're thinking gym, you're thinking performance or whether or not you're a runner, you're thinking bathhouses, all of those things. And I assume that the people who love those things are probably consuming Iron Maid. Where I'm finding this marketing of longevity getting interesting is like why are we now seeing it infiltrate beauty? And why are we now seeing it bleed out? Oh, it's gone way beyond the bathhouse. It's wet. Love that.

8:48Yeah. Get it on a cap. Next cap. Here we come. I'm really glad you brought that up because where this kind of was perfectly articulated for me was in a recent article by Allure. that was titled, Why Try to Live to 100 When I Can't Afford Being 32? And what I loved most about this article was that it is just laced in the concept that elitism really is at the crux of the longevity obsession. Like it is on a pedestal for the elite. I would say the overwhelming sentiment is definitely the elitism and how it is very expensive to be able to buy into these luxuries. But I also challenge that it's bleeding into the mass.

9:27You know, it's not that they need it. It's that they're being told they need it. Does that make sense? One thousand percent. And I think it loops back exactly to where we've opened this entire episode, which is that we feel we want it and need it because it's playing to every insecurity we've had. Yeah. And this sentiment is shared because we actually polled you guys and was really important for us to survey and make sure that we could get your input. And one response really stood out to me and really aligns with the overarching theme of the article. one of our wonderful listeners said why would I want to live longer if I spend my whole life worrying about living longer like that to me is like this push and pull I'm constantly feeling when it comes to marketing longevity consuming the products but then also it's like how is that actually compromising the quality of my life like I'm thinking too much about it it's the hamster on the wheel at the pub one of our girlfriends like we kind of rounded out this entire conversation about the article and about Brian Johnson who is as I mentioned that longevity influencer who ended up coming out and saying he actually has a chronic autoimmune condition called autoimmune gastritis.

10:28And this girlfriend of ours was saying, when can I get off the hamster wheel? Like, I'm so exhausted about worrying that I'm going to live the longest, healthiest, happiest life that I'm tired in the process by worrying about it. Yeah. And I think we're all tired. And that's why we wanted to talk about this today, because our relationship, your relationship as listeners with longevity and health is really at a point where we need to start questioning, particularly as it is bleeding into the beauty industry. I mean, as the article said, does the beauty industry need a bit of a wake-up call around how they're leveraging or hijacking, I should say, longevity marketing?

11:06Oh, they are piggybacking for sure. But really, we're going to get into it right after a word from today's sponsor. we spend a lot of time on this show talking about finding your personal style but that conversation it doesn't stop at getting dressed homes have become such an extension of who we are the most interesting spaces aren't the ones that look like a copy paste job they're the ones that feel collected lived in and full of personality for more than 15 years Fenton and Fenton have been championing that exact feeling thoughtful interiors that celebrate individuality their collection of furniture, lighting, rugs, art and homewares is filled with pieces that feel distinctive without being intimidating.

11:44They're the kind of timeless pieces you build a home around and love for years to come. Whether you're looking for one statement piece or you're slowly building a home that feels like you, explore the world of Fenton & Fenton online or if you're in Melbourne, visit their iconic brand showroom. And thank you so much to Fenton & Fenton for making this episode of stylish possible. Okay, I want to start with some stats around spend on, in, I should say, not on, the wellness category. It's in the wellness category. Spoiler. It's a very successful category. It's bloody expensive. Like, that feels sick.

12:17And also, I'm part of the problem, so I'm not judging anyone. According to iSelect, Australia is actually one of the world's fastest expanding wellness economies. iSelect reveals Australian spend an estimate of$6 ,737 annually on wellness. As a whole in 2024, Australians spent$141 billion in the wellness category. It was funny when we would, you know, we always pitch our stories. We talk about what we want to talk about. And I pitched this based on our convo at the pub. And I laughed because I said, guys, I worked out one day and I'm going to like fall on my own sword here that I had spent$24 on beverages, like wellness beverages.

12:52Like, I mean, let's take coffee out because I don't think anyone's claiming that's health is wealth. But I was like, I've spent$6 on a coffee. I'd bought a matcha because matcha is good for me. I had had a soda because I have an electrolyte every day. I had had an IMA because I have a supplement every day. It was like, you know, coconut water because that's good. You need to sneeze. I didn't know if you were like scrunching your nose, stop talking. I was like, I'm going to sneeze. I thought you were doing like, is my mouth off? Do you know what? I'm so sorry because now it's gone. Okay. So you can keep going.

13:25Look, and Re, let's fall in our own swords a little bit. Like, Where do you think a lot of this spend for you is going personally? In terms of what I'm spending money on per month, my gym membership, I pay per week. I also am subscribed to AG1. I also have a subscription with Sodi. So those are probably coming every like three months. I'm getting topped up. What else? Strava. I'm a runner, so I'm a Strava girlie. I would say my mindset around spending is more associated with services as opposed to product. So, you know, my gym membership also captures like saunas, ice baths, like all of those facilities are available in my gym.

13:58So I feel less, not like bad, but like I feel less guilty spending money on services than what I do product. AG1, SOTY for me are very performance aligned with like my running experience. So it's less about me feeling good in like every day and more about like, how do I like make sure I'm getting the nutrients I need when I'm running a lot? How is SOTY like replenishing my... Why do I take it again? You take it because you run and you lack That's right. Drinking wine. Yes. I would say my friends are like 50-50 in terms of what they spend based on like service versus product. So like some of my mates would spend more on at-home LED masks, you know, anti-aging products, like beauty products.

14:40Like they're very that way inclined. I'm a bit of column A, column B. I mean, I've followed suit and joined the same gym as you. So there she is. But for me, AG1 is more like there are some days I'm just so rushed and maybe not eating all of the right things that I should be or not getting the nutrients that I would hope I would be getting from like my day-to-day diet that I am hoping by having an IM8 or an AG1 that I am having something that's a little bit better. The electrolytes, to be fair, are probably because I like a wine on a Friday and a Saturday and it's more to make up for those. Yeah.

15:08What do you think about the marketing of longevity versus what is actually good for our wellbeing? Because I think where we keep coming back to is that these two things are at conflict. Well, totally. I think originally where longevity kind of came in, like its distinct origins for me are as simple as like organic food. It's like, if you eat good food, you will live longer. And I think that was kind of where the concept of longevity started was like, if you walk for 45 minutes a day and have cardiovascular health and those sorts of things, where it's gotten to now is the layers of biohacking and whatnot.

15:41And if you don't know what biohacking is, I called in my friends, WebMD, who defined it as

16:05But I think to your point at the very beginning of the episode, Rhi, was that it is infiltrated outside of health and wellbeing now to adjacent categories like beauty, which is where I feel really conflicted and sticky about it. I looked up the word skin-gevity, like skin longevity. And there were like results from the likes of Forbes, from Mecca, from AestheticsRx, brand after brand after brand. Like this list goes on. The SEO was insane. It was hustling. The products that were claiming to speak to longevity that were like at the top of the shopping page. This has well and truly captured the marketing tongue of skincare.

16:45Can you please run through some of the language because I think this is really important to tease out. This is where I feel the hijacking of longevity is really coming to light because there's a lot of jargon going on. Yeah, like honestly, some of the language in here is like skin longevity from Paula's Choice guide to youthful looking skin. Medicaid, what is skin longevity? The smarter way to age well. The article from Mecca was the new frontier in skin aging, improving longevity. Like there is a lot of conversation here that is suggesting that by using topical skincare products, you will increase the longevity of your skin.

17:21A few I read when I clicked in, we had reference to cellular repair, future proofing, which is basically longevity. They've just gone thesaurus. What else is another word for longevity? Synonyms for - And this one is really interesting. Healthy aging was coming up quite a bit. Yeah. And I remember last year, you guys did an episode where you talked about how longevity was becoming a theme then. This is where we're really seeing it play out now. Like, it feels like it's everywhere. For me, having worked in the beauty industry for such a long time, I see through this because for me, this is just a new way to say anti-aging because there was sort of this period where anti-aging became the dirty word and even Allure, I think it was in late 2017, banned the word altogether from their publication anti-aging.

18:09But then other synonyms came in like ageless, age defying, you know, longevity to me just feels like an extension of that. Where it feels slippery is that longevity is much more tied to health than anti-aging is. Totally. I really liked, Matt, the example that you included in the run sheet, which was for Estee Lauder. And I want you to read through this ad. Yeah. So Estee Lauder had an ad called Introducing Estee Lauder Skin Longevity Institute. And the subtitle of it was your resource on skin longevity and visible age reversal. Now, reversal is a big word to be using in beauty. It's throwing that around.

18:46It's a big one. I don't know. I'd go there if I was still working in beauty marketing. We'll link that in the show notes. I do want to call out the visuals as well that are accompanying the copy because it is very sciencey. We've got like, what is it? A beacon? No, no, it's a beaker. Beaker. Test tube. What do you call a do-do-do-do thing? Microscope. Thank you. Thank you for the do-do-do-do-do-do. So, yeah, we can really get this imagery, but also the copy telling the story of being science backed. Yeah. And it very much is indicating that it's happening at a deep cellular level, which is where it gets a little murky.

19:22Yeah, it's great. On a good day, it's great. Because like and to get a little bit Joe here of us, when something is suggesting a cellular level change, we're sort of getting into TGA territory which is the Therapeutic Goods Administration who are the body who look after things like supplements, SPFs and things like that and the TGA is you know really there for anything that does physically change the molecular cell of your skin. So we're talking things like they oversee Botox and PDRN and all these sorts of things. So this is where the language, I'm like, we're slippery. See, when I hear these things or these words, I feel like it's going to give me the same results as if I was to get Botox, but it's not.

20:11And they're not saying it is, but that's how I feel. And it's not to say, Re, that using some of these products will not help your skin health. It's just claims around skin jeopardy reversal that feel very like red zone to me. But you know, this is where the skepticism is coming from, because I think the average consumer and the average listener to Stylish would see those ads and know, I'm not sure about this, but that's when the pressure of marketing creeps in. And that's where, you know, you have this like push pull tension where it's like, oh, I know it's like, maybe not going to be saying what it actually is.

20:48It's not doing what it says on the tin, but I am insecure about this and I maybe if I do start using this product now I am going to look better in 10 to 15 years so you know don't feel bad if you are one of those people who is skeptical or is questioning you know the legitimacy of these claims but is still falling for it because you're not alone oh hey I work in marketing and let me tell you I'm working my way through that funnel but I'm really glad you brought up the audience because we actually did survey a bunch of listeners and look, a lot of you took the survey, but we also know by nature of surveys, it is people who either have the time or have the interest in the topic.

21:27So you're the most passionate. Like I best believe if I'm completing a survey, I am pumping that keyboard. We're good on the sound effects today. We don't need the machine I've been begging for. We don't. Oh, Matt, too far. Tell us about what the community said. Yeah, well, do you know what? Community, I'm here to speak your truth. We are, in fact, on the money, the majority of you do really have a negative association with longevity marketing. And it's clear there's an overpowering sense of fatigue and exhaustion with the feeling that it never ends. You are our girlfriend at the pub. And one of...

22:00Wait, I actually think, was this her? It wasn't. But it's literally verbatim for what she said. Verbatim for what she said. One of your answers that we loved that really stood out to us was, first, it was to be skinny. then be yourself then gut health then cosmetic surgery now it's longevity I mean yeah the perfect synopsis of the constant wow what's the word it's almost like pursuit pursuit it's the constant pursuit it felt reading that reminded me a lot of the Barbie monologue despite all of you admitting this and this is me so I'm with the community on this you know it's marketing still sucking us in.

22:38A couple of you said, hooks me every time. I'm falling for it. I'm a sucker for it. Me too, babe. Yeah. I'm not here to judge because, amen, probably got hooked in first and then hooked someone else in with me, i.e. AG1. I did find it interesting that a lot of people who were completing the survey actually work in medical or medical adjacent fields. We had nurses. We had people who worked in medicine, nutrition, dietetics, research, and public health. So that is an interesting skew in terms of like the data and also maybe the passion point as well, because when you're in this industry, it must be incredibly frustrating to see brands use language like longevity, reversal, like future proofing, and they must see that and be like, oh, this is so frustrating.

23:21Where I am concerned for this generation is for the group who maybe cannot enjoy the best of both worlds and are being consumed by the stress and pressure and subsequent fatigue of feeling like they constantly have to be bettering themselves to have the best possible life for as long as possible and to be doing everything they can no matter, you know, the consequences or the decisions that that requires, you know, how much sleep they need to be having, what they need to be eating, what they need to be buying, what they need to be injecting or doing. Like, I do think that would be an isolating place to be.

23:56One consideration as well is the family history side of things. Yeah, I think this marketing is like largely puffery, fluffy language. And where I take issue with it is that it plays on not only like the female insecurities that we spoke about, but a lot of people will have either a family history of illness or a personal relationship with their own health that maybe is slippery. and I think that's where this becomes a problem on a much deeper level that it is playing to people's insecurities about parents or grandparents they might have lost too soon or their own personal struggles with health and their belief that by doing or buying the things they are playing catch up and make up for things that are potentially predetermined for them.

24:38Yeah it's interesting as well because some of these like that specifically yes for people who are playing in that space of like the health and like I think about EverLab I get served EverLab ads all the time I'm pretty sure it's very expensive it's basically a full body diagnostic it's like identifying precondition yes yes yes yes your predisposition to yes so that for me I agree definitely is someone who's probably got that family history would see those things probably find them quite triggering to be honest or might feel very influenced to do that what I don't understand in beauty is why is beauty borrowing this language and borrowing this trust from like the medical industry with all of this jargon?