‘Millions in debt’: How Victoria Beckham clawed her way back

19:58Anika:Anytime Rui lets me do her makeup, I attack her with liner and she needs to be tight lighting immediately if not sooner. Guys, girlhood. Girlhood, girlhood. Get the liner out. I'm like I clean it for her and everything, so no one come for me. There's no style swapping here. I have to say as well her fragrances are fucked up beautiful and wow. I loved that. Like seriously, I got on the plane in New York and I looked at my girlfriend, Bec, and just went, oh my God, I forgot to buy the fragrance. That was like the one thing I needed to do but transparently was so hungover on the last day. I just couldn't put the left in front of the right.

20:32Anika:So real. I just forgot to go back and buy it. Okay, let's get into the doco because as I mentioned, this is Mecca's perfect storm in the best possible way for it to have launched around the same time they're launching the brand. We were all very lucky. Netflix gave us early access to the doco, which we've been unable to talk about it because it's been under embargo until the 9th when it dropped that evening. I absolutely adored this, but I am so keen to get your thoughts because I think we can deepen it a lot before whether it was a raid or hate. Go, Jo. I really liked it. I mean, I liked the David Beckham doco as well.

21:07Me too. Because I really liked the cameos from both of them in there and kind of the, I guess the insight that we got into their family life, but also their business lives and their story up until this date. Because unlike a lot of other celebs and influencers over the last 10 years, where we really do often see that inside access because of social media, we didn't have that with them when they were at their absolute peak of their, you know, pop star and football careers. So I really love seeing that insight. And I also just think she's so funny. She's hilarious. Unintentionally funny. She's just very authentic and she doesn't give a fuck.

21:42She's super dry. Yes. I love that about her.

21:45Anika:Brie, what did you think? I adored it. I agree with you, Jo. I really, really, really loved the behind the scenes access. I loved the Beckham documentary. Louis, my husband, actually watched it with us. He's a huge Beckham fan, so much so our dog is named Bex. So that sets the tone for you all. We loved it. What I thought was interesting was if you've watched the Beckham documentary, I'm going to be really honest, you could probably skip the first episode because I do feel like a lot of it, there was a bit of double up. I did really enjoy seeing the same sort of storyline and the history of their relationship being set up from Posh's POV, from Victoria's POV.

22:22But I would say there was a lot of overlap between the first episodes of Beckham and the first episode of Victoria Beckham. So for me, I probably could have skipped that first episode for the purpose of this podcast. Plus, I watched it to make sure I was as informed as possible. I loved, loved, loved, loved the second episode. All about business, all about the brand. Also, one thing that I really enjoyed was they were not holding back with how fucking hard it was on their relationship, how much money they were sinking into this brand and how much they were in the red. You could see it was palpable to me, Victoria's stress around reflecting on that time in her life.

23:00And when they were out in the cabana, when they were talking about how much the business being in red, and we're talking tens of millions of pounds in the red, how much that actually impacted their relationship, not just the business because them as a couple but also David, specifically they acknowledged that David had been pouring a lot of money into this brand. Victoria said, we were tens of millions in the red. I'm going home to my husband and my business partner. Like that would have been so hard for them. What did you guys think of that part?

23:30Anika:I thought that was incredibly raw, vulnerable and honest, like, or say all of the above. It really was a peek behind the curtain. Agreed. And I think right now, culturally, we have a real affinity for transparency and honesty. Now, caveat that with this is a Netflix doco that is produced by David's production company. So the same way that the Beckham doco was, like, they get to pick how favourably or how transparent they want to be in this. And I think Netflix as an overall organisation do a pretty good job of that as well. But it was really important to me that she addressed that. I was really eager to see whether she would really lean into how much trouble that business was in.

24:12Anika:And it was widely reported. I mean, in 2023, there were a lot of press articles celebrating the fact that their losses were down to£200 ,000 from the£900 ,000 in 2022. too. Like you're not often seeing a business that is having, as she spoke about in the doco, the scale of these shows, Anna Wintour, Front Row, all of the press that anyone could ever dream of that is still in the red. And I loved that because I think applicable to Victoria Beckham as a brand, but also a lot of other businesses that look to be doing well or their sales are great, but what they're investing and spending in the business and what their EBITDA is, which is their final earnings number, can be so low and in some instances, much like this, in the red.

24:57Can I ask a question? Take your marketing media person in the industry hat off. Do you think this would appeal to an everyday entertainment viewer, this doco? Absolutely. Why do you think that is?

25:09Anika:Because she led, and that's why I find it interesting you said you thought you could have skipped episode one. She led with Victoria Beckham, the person, and the personal brand. So from an entertainment perspective, whether you loved the Spice Girls or whether you loved football or whether you just loved celebrity gossip in the early 2000s and like when she had the big implants and the big hair and the tiny booty shorts, like she took us on this journey of like, I'll show you who I am before you have to listen to this stuff. And I felt we had enough injection of playful moments, family moments, cultural moments that even if you're not really interested in the fact that her business was quite frankly up shit creek without a paddle and needed to bring an external investment that you could still enjoy that.

25:54I agree. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is very familiar with Victoria Beckham when I'm talking about skipping the first episode. I do think the average person needs to watch that if you are an average entertainment viewer who doesn't really have the context that I have of who she is. Also all the research we've done in previous episodes and just obviously Louie's obsession. Definitely watch the first episode. The one thing I think Netflix do really well is storytelling, particularly with these series. And another thing that I feel will serve this documentary well, and I do think it's going to be a huge success, is because the format and the way that it's structured is really similar to the Beckham docuseries, which was a renowned success.

26:33So I feel like they're like, we're on a good thing here. Let's keep the recipe. The recipe, it's the same formula. It's just from the perspective and the context of Victoria Beckham the brand as you said Mads but also her business some things I found a little bit eye-rolly and this is just like me nitpicking production stuff that it boom boom uh one-liners I get it like that's the Beckham doco series like with the your dad drove you to school in a Bentley like I think they were really trying to recreate that same thing with Victoria in this in this series and a couple of them really landed for me a couple of them didn't because I could tell oh we're manufacturing this here.

27:11Yeah.

27:12Anika:One thing I loved is the fact they lifted the lid on beauty being introduced. And while I don't disagree or doubt that she had a passion for beauty, I also want to be really clear that the margins in beauty, particularly in makeup, are really healthy. When I say margin, I mean what it costs to make and what you sell it for. And so it's interesting that they brought that in. I also think that is very likely attributing to their recent success and turnaround because it has been widely popular. We now have it entering Mecca. We know there is a very strong rumour that Hourglass is leaving. A lot of discussion online that store team members are speaking to that about this 15-year Mecca partnership being over.

27:53Anika:I said it on a previous episode. I don't think there could be a better alignment for Mecca or a better replacement for Hourglass. How do you think the Australian market and consumer will embrace Victoria Beckham Beauty? There's definitely a major appetite for it, but was that because we couldn't get it? It's like you want things that you can't have, people just going to be like a bit underwhelmed because it's now accessible. Like when I was in Paris earlier this year, I was with a makeup artist called Jade Kisnorbo and Lee Campbell, who's a beauty influencer and journalist. And they were gagging to get to a department store to buy Victoria Beckham Beauty.

28:29Like we were down at Galleries Lafayette looking for the counter and finally found it, spent like 20 minutes there trying everything. I think Jade bought the bronzing bricks and I was trying the fragrances and I regretted not buying it. I think it was the Aqua one. Yeah. It's called Portofino. Yes. Yeah, it's beautiful. Absolutely sublime. So I think maybe I would be tempted to invest in something like that, but I will say the formulas are beautiful. I don't think it's necessarily a similar brand to Hourglass specifically, but it has a similar customer in terms of it's a luxury shopper. It is someone that doesn't mind spending money on their beauty products, especially makeup.

29:06And they want really quality, beautiful formulas. That's a nice segue because I was going to ask you guys, do you think it fills the Hourglass void? If Hourglass does leave Mecca, do you feel like it fills the void?

29:18Anika:No, I don't think that it fills the void, but I think that - Does it have to though? No, I don't think it does. Two things can be true. Yeah. I don't think it fills the void because the product offering of Victoria Beckham Beauty is not the same lineup or to the same breadth as Hourglass. Do I think that it will be eventually? Yes. And that is what you have to remember when you're working in a retailer like this. And when you're signing a brand of this scale, generally speaking, you will be seeing a three to four to five year product pipeline. Mecca would be very aware of what Victoria Beckham's pipeline would be.

29:48Anika:And given the success we've seen in the last few years and the way that that brand has scaled. I would not be at all surprised if in five years we were sitting here, hopefully this podcast is still going, talking about the size and scale of Victoria Beckham the same way we do about Hourglass. I'm so excited for this brand to launch. If I was going to give you a brand that I think it sits alongside, I wouldn't say it's Hourglass, I'd say Westman Atelier. Yeah, I think that's a really good comparison. I also will still follow my Hourglass products. It's not going to stop me from buying them. I don't think it's a direct swap, but I am still really keen to try this brand and be able to experience it in a retail environment because I'm a big tactile person when it comes to beauty consumption and I like to go into Mecca stores, Sephora, you know, any of the retailers and really experience a brand firsthand before I lock in.

30:33Yeah. But I'm keen to lock in on this one.

30:36Anika:I'm really keen. I was in my local Mecca recently and said to one of the girls, oh my God, I'm so excited for Victoria Beckham coming in. Obviously it had just been announced and I was like, have you tried anything? Have you played? Is there any product here? She said she'd done the training, which is so exciting because I was like, okay, that means you've tried everything. The skin tint has recently launched and like, there's a lot of conversation online because it is really exy. She was saying that was her favorite product. I'm excited to try it, even if it is in store. I don't know if I'll pull the trigger on the investment, but I'm excited for that and for the fragrances.

31:09Anika:The eyeliners, I'm just excited to be able to go in and buy them conveniently. What about you guys? What What are you most excited to try? Definitely the fragrance that I sampled in Paris. I regretted not buying that, but at the time I was like, the conversion is just not converting for me. So I'm not going to do that here, but I do really want to invest in that. Could it be the wedding fragrance? Ooh, potentially. I might need to have another sniff and then I might make a call on that. Sniff and see. I wardrobe palette that I've already tried. I definitely would repurchase. Also, my birthday is coming up, so if someone wants to buy me that, they can.

31:44Georgia are you listening?

31:46Anika:I'd like that you looked me directly in the eye as well just in case Georgia doesn't come through. All right next we're going to discuss Nicole Kidman becoming Chanel's new ambassador but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

31:59In another instance of interesting timing last week Nicole Kidman was announced as Chanel's new brand ambassador right in the midst of her divorce with Keith Urban going public. She's made her first public appearance post-split at Chanel's Paris Fashion Week show last week, which she attended with her two daughters and her niece. She's also debuted a new fringe, something people online were quick to describe as breakup bangs. I didn't see that. I love that. I would never, but yeah. Nicole was a smart choice for the label for many reasons, but the fact that she's going through a divorce and potentially having a bit of post-breakup rebirth aligns nicely with Chanel's evolution as a label.

32:35Last week's Paris Fashion Week runway featured the debut collection from the label's new creative director, Mathieu Blaisier. There was a lot of hype around it, hype that by almost all accounts, it more than lived up to, according to both critics and social media. I mean, if my social media is anything to go by, it was absolutely everywhere. In her review of the show, the New York Times fashion critic Vanessa Friedman said, it turned out he wasn't just remaking the world of Coco. He was remaking the universe, taking Chanel down to a molecular level and recombining all those well-known brand building blocks.

33:05In doing so, Mr. Blaisier didn't always create beauty, he did something more interesting. He brought Chanel back to life. We've actually spoken before on the podcast and just at length in the Shameless Media universe about all the criticism Chanel has received over the years for dressing its ambassadors in what people would describe as uninteresting and sometimes unflattering red carpet outfits. After seeing the new direction Mathieu is taking Chanel in, do you think this criticism could become a thing of the past? And what do you guys think about Nicole being a brand ambassador?

33:37Anika:And there is no way that anyone from Chanel will be dressed poorly in the next 12 months. I will go on the record. I will eat my words if I have to. I mean, we've all seen the memes of someone at Chanel hating Margot Robbie. I was Margot Robbie top of mind. Poor Margot. And Elliot Garneau and I spoke about this earlier in the year when we did Face to Face. Someone at Chanel hated Margot Robbie. And I will die on that hill because she went from arguably one of the worst dressed celebrities to without a doubt one of the best. And she looked phenomenal sitting front row at Chanel. So I think bridges are no longer burned.

34:12Anika:They're back together. The world is healing. Nicole Kidman looked unreal. And do you know what? It might not have been her walking out of a divorce office fist pumping, but it was the next best thing. And like the girls said on The Shameless Ep, when women get divorced, it's like a butterfly. They just become better. Not speaking from experience personally, of course, But she just looked unreal. And what a statement to be there with her two daughters, also in Head to Toe Chanel. That was a full family affair. I love the fact that Nicole Kidman is back. Yeah, I agree, Rhi. I struggled to find any sentiment online that said that the Chanel show didn't pop off.

34:52I saw a TikTok actually that described it as tasting something you've always known, but suddenly spiced differently. Oh, I love that. Which I would have to agree with. I really liked that analogy because I think that's so true. was like the modernization of Chanel in this particular show. I loved like the planetarium kind of setup. And Nicole as an ambassador, I was like, thank God they have an ambassador that is actually their customer. Nicole is 58, I believe, 57, 58.

35:18Anika:And she's rich. And she's rich. And this is their customer. Like the three of us in this room are not going down to Chanel to buy their collection. It's just not happening. Like the three of us are not walking into Chanel and buying the new collection. But there may be other women in their late 50s, early 60s that do have the income to do that. So having that representation for that brand, I think is so incredibly important and such a great strategy from them. I think you're bang on there, Jo. I really liked this idea. And again, we're here to deepen things. So if you're listening to this being like, oh, this feels a bit deep, I'm taking it to this place.

35:54I also like this idea of a new iteration or a brand being reborn. I feel like we're seeing this trend with a few celebrities as well. Nicole Kidman, Demi Moore, who have really moved into this next iteration of their career and this born-again phase of the type of movies and TV that they're actually doing. So I was thinking Demi Moore, The Substance, Nicole Kidman, Baby Girl. They're really progressing into these roles that feel quite progressive but also provocative and quite gritty. That decision to be exploring that type of creative work seems to be trickling down into the type of partnerships that they're doing as well.

36:31And I feel like Chanel is going down a similar path where they're trying to revitalize the heritage of this brand, reposition it as being edgy, reposition it as being, you know, a bit more interesting. Because as we touched on earlier, historically, Chanel has been criticized quite a lot over the last few years as being a bit dull. Yeah. And stale. Stale. And I like that synergy.

36:50Anika:Yeah. And what I love about this partnership is it is the perfect embodiment of a nod to heritage and a forward facing view. And I think that whole collection symbolized that. And I think that was evident in the show. I mean, even the shirting, the partnership that they've done with that shirting business is Coco Chanel's shirting favourites. Like this is a nod to Heritage, but a fresh lens forward. And I'm so excited for it to be Nicole Kidman. I think much like Mecca getting Victoria Beckham, someone in Chanel is going, oh my God, yay, she's getting a divorce. Probably not Nicole's camp, but it's perfect timing for them.

37:29Anika:This conversation would have been going on well before the divorce news was public. And I very much doubt anyone at Chanel knew that there was trouble in the Kidman-Keith household. Well, the rumours have been that the split happened earlier this year. So if the conversation has been in the works, there may have been someone internally at Chanel that did know that this eventually would be coming out because your PR team, from Nicole's perspective, would maybe have to flag that as a potential risk factor for them. Can I add to this as well? and this is the skeptic in me and I've consumed a lot of shameless podcasts over the years.

38:03And what I've learned from that is not everything is a mistake. And that sometimes when you feel like something feels strategic or, oh my God, that's so weird how it's all aligned, it was probably planned. I don't necessarily think the Chanel ambassadorship came off the back of Nicole's divorce. That's well-earned. That collaboration makes a lot of sense because she's actually had a longstanding relationship with Chanel. How could we forget the iconic Baz Luhrmann commercial of the Chanel No. 5 fragrance that Nicole Kidman debuted in. She's had a relationship with the brand. It doesn't feel like that was influenced by this.

38:37One thing I agree with you, Jo, is strategically, I do think Nicole's team have looked at the scenario and planted the timing of these announcements really well. We also just have Nicole Kidman on the cover of Vogue. So that recently just dropped. That is very much playing into the hands of Nicole's team and them being really strategic about this announcement. Yeah, so in that sense, I feel like it's all perfect timing. But regardless, I'm obsessed with it. I love strategic moves. And I think this is working really well for Nicole and her team. Good job.

39:10Anika:I also love and I think this is the undertone of this entire episode, that these are women with children. They are families. They are older women who we are culturally obsessed with. I love that we're talking about Demi Moore. I love that we're talking about Victoria Beckham, Nicole Kidman, we're not just talking about 28-year-old, you know, Sabrina Carpenter or 34-year-old Taylor Swift. Like, these are cultural zeitgeist women and I love that nostalgia is back. We saw it with Victoria's Secret bringing back the angels, whether you love it or loathe it, that's a nod to nostalgia. Kim using the supermodels era for the Skims campaign last year.

39:49Anika:Like, we're seeing a lot of it and I love it so much. So would you coin Chanel the number one show that you saw at Paris Fashion Week on socials? On socials, yes. What do you think? In terms of the show, I would say Schiaparelli was my favourite show, but overall branding, marketing, publicity. Social impact. Chanel knocked it out of the park. And I bought a Chanel bag years and years ago to mark a work occasion, saved for like two years to buy it, second-handed auction. And let me tell you, I've never ran to pull out a handbag quicker. I was like, oh, now is a good time to be a Chanel girl. Yeah.

40:26Anika:Okay. So it's reinvigorated your love. One thousand percent. This is not your Nana's Chanel. And much like that Tiffany campaign that was like, this is not your grandmother's Tiffany, Chanel is saying that in a much more understated, chic, cool way. But if there was ever a house that was going to cop criticism for not getting it right, it would have been Chanel. Like, honestly, they must just be high-fiving internally because you couldn't have asked for a better response. Yeah. Industry sentiment agrees. So a lot of the publications I follow, Business of Fashion, Park News, all basically coined Chanel number one from Paris Fashion Week.

41:00Lauren Sherman, fashion journalist who I spoke about earlier, who is the host of Fashion People and has her own newsletter line sheet, again, a must subscribe and a fashion industry Bible, hailed Chanel the winner of Paris Fashion Week. Chanel by Matus Blesi, he nailed it. This was somehow both elegant, directional, beautiful, and above all desirable. He paid care to the house codes without losing himself and did better than anyone could have imagined in the process. The set was amazing. The hair and makeup were great. In France, they love to say, and look, guys, I'm not going to say it in French because I'll absolutely butcher it, but it translates to not possible.

41:35Blazis showed that it is possible. Fashion is saved. I mean, Lauren is notorious for being a bit of a, honestly, like a ball breaker when it comes to her reviews and her opinions. That is one of, I would say, the nicest reviews I've seen her give. And I think a real real indication of how much this has resonated with not just people in the industry, but people like us. And I'm really, really, really excited to see what he does next. Same. Off the back of Lauren's comments and to tie back into what you said, Mads, about getting your Chanel out of the cupboard, Data But Make It Fashion actually reported the popularity of Chanel has already risen 15 % since the debut collection, which is huge.

42:16Anika:Data but Makeup Fashion had arguably my favourite quote, which sums it up perfectly. Girls don't want flowers. They want Matu Blaise Chanel. And that is a great way to finish. That is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you very much for joining us. And, of course, thanks very much to you, Joanna Fleming and Rhiannon Joyce. And you, Madison Salvinthal. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au or you can slide into our DMs over at StylishPod. Please do let us know your girlhood moments and we can't forget to thank the Shameless Media team. Our head of podcast, Lucy Hunt, and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emma Burke, will be right back in our chairs next Wednesday.

42:57Anika:See you then. Bye. Bye. Ciao.

43:13This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.