My god, what a Met Gala mess

0:16Happy Wednesday. This is stylish the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. She returns. She's back. We just forced her to do the intro because we said Jo and I have been carrying the load here. Oh, I'm so sorry. Who are you? Their backs are heavy. Hi, if you haven't met me, I'm Madison Sullivan Thorpe. I am joined by Joanna Fleming and Rhiannon Joyce. Hello, Madison Sullivan. Rhiannon Joyce Waddell, are we doing that yet? No. Just for... No, it is my full name, but my stage name is still Rhiannon Joyce. Wait, have you changed her name for me? I have. Oh, you have? Okay. I have an ad, but stage name Rhiannon Joyce.

0:56My showbiz name, if you will. It's all showbiz, baby. Yeah. Thrilled to be back with the girlies. Good to have you back. It's been a while. I know. I feel like I haven't recorded with either of you in ages. Yeah, rotating roster now, so it means we have a few more fresh faces in here and we're mixing it up. Mads is back and we're so happy to have you. Tell us. Tell us what we're talking about today. I mean, not to feel like breaking news, but literally as of about 11 p.m. last night, because we record on Tuesday morning, we had the news drop that the Met Gala has dropped the John Galliano exhibition.

1:28And honestly, the Slack channel between the hours of 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. I don't think has ever gone off more than it did last night. I can't believe how many people were awake at that time. It was you, Mads, Naima, and I think someone else dropped it in the chat maybe. But what were you guys doing up first of all? Sleep when I'm dead. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. But if you haven't seen it, guys, we'll give you a really quick recap of what's happens. So this is the full statement written by John Galliano in his team. The statement reads, after much reflection and discussion with the Met and all those involved, I have decided with great sadness that it is the best for the exhibition to not take place at this time.

2:03I remain fully accountable for the pain caused by my words in the past, particularly the hurt I caused to the Jewish and Asian communities. And I remain deeply sorry for it. I understand that meaningful atonement is not achieved through an exhibition, institutional recognition, or a single public gesture. It is a continuing responsibility demonstrated through listening, learning, and one's conduct over time. I want to start with that decision first. Why do you think it was framed from John Galliano and not the Met Gala? We've said the Met Gala like twice. I was going to pick you up. It's actually the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

2:35So the official statement was from the Metropolitan Museum of Art and John Galliano. Yes. I would suspect that John Galliano's camp really wanted this quote to come from him because I suspect this decision has been made by John. There was a New York Times article that, Ray, you spoke to earlier this morning when we were like, the Slack channel was zzzz. Our speculation at this point is that that pressure has come from donors who are unhappy about this collaboration. And a little bit of backstory was this exhibition was announced months ago. And I suspect as we've inched closer So towards May 2027, that pressure has continued to mount.

3:10For those of you who are listening and maybe don't understand what initially took place. So John Galliano had committed anti-Semitic slurs towards Jewish people in a public bar. And I believe there was also racial slurs towards the Asian community. So that garnered a lot of attention, a lot of criticism. He did apologize for it at the time. And it has popped up every now and then when his name has been in the headlines. So yes, this happened 15 years ago, but it has resurfaced and it is the main reason why the Met Gala and John Galliano have parted ways at this point. So Galliano did apologize for the incident at the time and he also attributed his rant to an addiction to drug and alcohol.

3:48He apologized for his remarks. He entered rehab and went on to study with Rabbi Barry Marcus in London. He also met with Abraham Foxman, the former national director of the Anti-Defamation League, to learn about Judaism, anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. So he has taken accountability for what happened 15 years ago and been on a pretty vigorous journey to do better and to, you know, repair his public image. Yeah. And he does, in this quote, suggest that he wants to leave the Met out of this discussion about whether he deserves to be forgiven or not. I do not want the debate surrounding me to place the Met in a difficult position or to distract from the remarkable work of the Costume Institute.

4:21I also recognise and respect that an exhibition honouring my work would be painful to some. I would also like to express my deepest gratitude to all those who have guided, supported and accompanied me throughout these 15 years of sobriety and recovery from alcoholism and addiction. I want you to read as well, Mads, the quote that Anna Wintour gave. Yeah, it was really interesting. The one thing that puts a big asterisk on all of this for me before we kind of round out this discussion is that I don't think Anna Wintour is someone who is flippant with her words. No. So Anna Wintour said John's decision to ask the museum to postpone the exhibition devoted to his work is very courageous and a measure of the man he is.

4:58Now, do you think the use of the word postpone was a very deliberate one? Incredibly deliberate. I do think it is a no right now, but it might be something that they explore or potentially look at revisiting in the future. Yeah. Agreed. Another interesting tidbit is that Anna Wintour chose to end that Jonathan Anderson is a big lover of John Galliano in the final quote that she issued. Oh, I didn't see that. And I thought that was a really interesting move because I would say Jonathan Anderson alongside Mattu Blasey are probably the two biggest names in couture fashion right now. And I thought this was a nod of going, here is a young designer who admires John Galliano.

5:38And I think that was very deliberate. it. Yeah, I also think John Galliano was most renowned and famous for his work at Dior. Yeah. And when this incident took place, I believe he was still at Dior. He stood down. He lost his position. He lost his position. So the centre point for me is the connection to Dior. I mean, we could literally nitpick the PR statements, but I do agree with you, Mads. The word postpone is very intentional, particularly from Anna Wintour. There's not a lot she's flipped on. All right. Today, first we're going to be discussing if Australia is in a fashion crisis. Then those all for Mimi job applications.

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7:14So recently we saw a TikToker Amber Matthews weigh in that we've lost our sense of personal style. Now when we say we, we mean us Aussies, Australians. for those. We do have a lot of international listeners, I should say, so I don't want to offend anyone. No, no, no, no. We're talking about the Aussies in the room. Okay. So it's very much an us issue. And Amber really goes deep on explaining why she thinks this is the case. So she talks a lot about how copycat culture, dupe culture is really destroying individualism. Interestingly, she used that example as well of the white fox Annalise dress that we actually did like an entire segment on when that first happened.

7:50Yeah. So the dress, which was basically a direct copy from a Melbourne designer and it just completely kicked off the whole argument around dupe culture. She's made multiple videos. We're going to play a snippet of one of them. Australian fashion right now is simply just people flexing if they can afford the expensive version or if they have the dupe. I am so sick of the most exciting thing happening in Australian fashion right now is Kmart doing something for$20 that someone else did for$100. And this white fox dress, the Annalise Brownlow dress, it started it all. And I spoke about this when that happened because I feel like that was a test.

8:20I feel like that was testing the waters of how people would receive it. A lot of people said, well, we can't afford the expensive version. And not many people seem to understand that couture and expensive pieces aren't meant to be affordable. Annalise wasn't wearing this to go down to the Burley Paz. She was wearing it for the brown load. But I feel like that moment opened the floodgates that basically anything can be duped and everything should be duped. And if there is something that is trending, dupe it. Shout out to the Burley Paz. I know, I know. I literally had a little chuckle off my head.

8:48the belly path reference. So there is also a piece in The Guardian that I want to reference because this doubles down on this idea that trends are really taking over dupe cultures taking over. So it's titled, Have I Been Influenced or Is This Actually Me? How Personal Taste Fell Out of Fashion? And we're going to reference this article throughout our discussion. But it's also come about on TikTok. Other TikTokers are contributing to the conversation. We had a TikToker named Beck who said that the fashion crisis she believes is a result of tall poppy syndrome. I think when you look at all of these things together, it does point to this really interesting question of do we think people and let's say Aussies, we've lost our individuality.

9:26I do agree that there's not a lot of diversity in what we wear, but I also think there's like decades worth of that where we all follow trends and we're all wearing similar things, you know, even looking back to like the 1920s where something is in fashion and we're all kind of wearing the same thing. But in terms of what's available to us, I do think that's definitely shrinking down to all look very similar. There's not as much creativity, I think, in the fashion landscape, particularly in Australia right now. Yeah, I agree with you, Jo, and I do wonder if it's exacerbated at the moment through a couple of things, one being the algorithm serving you what you interact with.

10:01And I think the algorithm is rewarding simplicity at the moment. But I also think it's a bit of a recession indicator from brands that we are seeing them go, we're seeing out from that brand, they're doing it in eight colours or they do the same cut in six different shades. Let's just do that as well because we need to sell product in a time that retail is really struggling. To your point on the algorithm side of things as well, in a New York Times opinion piece called The Frontier of Algorithmic Fashion, Amy O'Dell, who we have referenced so many times on this podcast, she actually pointed to the early 2000s, the influx of investment in fashion by big tech and private equity as a real turning point in the industry.

10:37So she highlighted that over time this has then created an opportunity for AI to come in and replace that creative talent that we otherwise relied on in the fashion industry with algorithms and that it all just churns through and all we're being fed is the same thing and so obviously our brains are kind of now wired to just be interested in exactly the same thing because it's all we're seeing recycled in our feeds. Totally. The algorithm call out for me is what this conversation is about. I think this is less about being an Australian issue and more about being a social media issue. Yeah. I think more broadly, there are probably people overseas who are listening to this being like, why do you think this is just an Aussie thing?

11:12You also look at the high street market. You look at Zara, you look at H &M. They're very much embracing that uniform look and feel as well in terms of outfits. I think you're bang on mads about the recession indicator. Fabrications are really expensive to manufacture. The more detail, the more textiles you use, the more creative the pattern is, the more expensive it is to produce. So brands just don't have as much luxury to be able to create unique pieces. That's not to say there aren't brands out there that are doing it. And you know, off the top of my head in Australia, there are so many that are doing really good things.

11:42Antipodean, Alame, you know, bloody Zimmerman, who's been around for how long? But those fabrics are really expensive to make. And those designs, I was about to say, and those price points are reflective of that. I think it would be remiss of us to not acknowledge that if you do walk down High Street and if you took off the store names and you looked at the windows, it's really, really hard to be able to distinguish a brand by what you see in that window. Absolutely. It's really hard as well because I also think the way that us moving into this space where affiliates are really growing and that's becoming a huge revenue stream for influencers.

12:14A lot of these affiliate platforms, whether that be LTK or ShopMy, are encouraging influencers to obviously link their clothes to get a commission and to create a passive revenue stream, right? I know for a fact on LTK, as someone who is an active user on that, it is really difficult to put brands on there that aren't on the platform. And a lot of these unique brands that I've just rattled off aren't on LTK. So what I also think has happened is that influencers are being rewarded by putting products on these affiliate programs that are a bit more generic and a bit more accessible or look basic, like are basics.

12:48But also on that point is if there's not something that is listed on there because it's a more niche brand, you're then encouraged to tag something that is similar. Exactly. So you'd then be going to maybe a fast fashion brand to tag something that is similar because people are going to want to know where that's from or buy something that looks like it. Yeah. And maybe this might feel to a listener that I'm clutching at straws here, but I do think this is an integral reason as to why people are starting to look the same because we're being told to buy things that look the same from creators. I think it's certainly a factor.

13:15I do. Yeah. And I think like affiliates, one part of it, but the other part of it for me is that the big brands that do manufacture a lot of staples and basics have bigger budgets for both paid ads. So that's the content that you get served, not necessarily just influencer content, but also paid influencer partnerships. So not only is it down to affiliate because ShopMy does allow you to tag brands that aren't on the platform, LTK doesn't, but where you are getting served mass content from the brands that are producing, as you guys have put it, basic items that you feel like you could put any brand name over it, they've got more meta ad spend.

13:50Reflecting on your own habits online and how you're consuming content and finding inspiration and what to wear. Do you guys feel like you're influenced by the algorithm? Yes. 100%. I do. I did laugh recently. I got locked out of my Pinterest because it was attached to an old one, which is a shame. I had a lot of quotes that I'd go in there for just to give me a real one-off if I needed it. But I restarted the Pinterest board and I was going to a girlfriend's themed hens. Well, now my Pinterest thinks that I'm like obsessed with corset dressing. I'm like, probably not my style, but suddenly everything it's showing me is like embroidery and bustiers and military jackets.

14:28And I'm like, I probably wouldn't say this is like my style wheelhouse, but it's so interesting, like comparing what my old Pinterest algorithm was serving me with what I've interacted with in the space of like a two week period, what it thinks I like all of a sudden. I almost think that we're more inclined to dress like each other and over consume, which is, I think, another element that plays into this because we're more accessible to others being chronically online. I think that's like ties into your point around this being a social media issue, Rhi, is because we're showing up online. We're seeing other people online as well and what they're wearing and what they're doing.

15:05And we're constantly comparing ourselves. I think a lot of this like plays into psychology a lot. And I kind of went digging about this. I know this is kind of deepening it. No, but I think that's what we're here to do. We're here to deepen Yeah, I just really think there's a psychological element to it. And I saw this article by Fashion is Psychology and the author cites the psychological phenomenon of social proof. And that just means like people copy the actions of others in choosing how to behave in a situation. And fashion's no exception to that. We're wired to look for others on cues on how to behave.

15:36And it's the same with dressing. So I think that's a really big factor is that it's less scary to wear the same thing as other people because you're not going to be judged because everyone's wearing similar things to you. I think we're scared to look different because it's easier to blend in. Jo, I think that's a really good call out. And bringing it back to the TikTok that I referenced earlier, so Beck, who said that she attributes the fashion crisis to tall poppy syndrome, that is something that is so, so topical in Australia and is symbiotic with Australian culture. Like you cannot say Australia without someone saying tall poppy syndrome, particularly nowadays.

16:07Look, we might be deepening this a lot, but I think you could easily say it's a comfort thing. people like to feel casual. That's very an Australian Aussie mood and vibe that people want to embrace in their lifestyle, but also in their wardrobe. But I do think the tall poppy thing is a factor and maybe subconsciously that is showing up in how people dress. Yeah. Totally. And I think the same can be said for, like, I think this bleeds out of just fashion into beauty. Like, hello, like how many road pocket blushes and like lip balms can we all wear? It's like suddenly everyone's like got this minimalist makeup look, you know, we're all blush blind.

16:40We're all loving a slightly overlined lip. Let's not forget a 2016 time when a banana bake was everyone's best friend with a glitter shadow on the lid. Shout out to still a kitten. Yeah. But again, we were all doing the same thing at that time. It wasn't just that there was a group of people that were doing that one thing and standing out against the rest. We were all doing the block brow. Oh yeah. Oh, I was definitely doing the block brow. I was actually born with the block brow, so I didn't have to fill anything in. We did actually poll the office as well. I want to read a comment from Georgie, who's in the partnerships team.

17:11Having worked in fashion media for five years at publications that champion independent and emerging designers, there is undoubtedly a dupe culture that needs to be addressed by the big players in the industry. But I also think what we're calling a fashion crisis and lack of personal style is largely a symptom of the fast fashion industry. She also added, it's a never ending cycle and each of these issues play into one another. But I truly believe that if we collectively, one, consume fewer clothes, two, invest in well-made unique pieces from independent stores and designers, M3 consume a more diverse range of fashion content, we would see significantly less of this personal style crisis.

17:43It's a discovery problem at its core. Gee, my gal, I couldn't agree more with you. And I also think this reinforces the algorithmic issue we have on certain platforms like Instagram and TikTok and even Pinterest to your point, Mads. I think this is also why certain platforms like Substack are growing and growing and growing. Because by design, And Substack is for discoverability, not serving an algorithm. They don't have advertising in their platform. They don't have brands paying for features and pushing product. So I think people are turning to Substack for more creativity and to find cooler items or to discover new brands or new creators who they really like and want to pay for that value exchange to get something that's personalized.

18:27I agree. But devil's advocate. I very much doubt that there is not a fashion or beauty retailer of a large scale sitting in a room right now talking about how they can get into Substack. And there will be creators who are large scale and at this point considered independent who will be taking checks to be talking about beauty products or tops they're loving or jeans they're wearing and having a value exchange. Yeah, I think right now it is very much their goal to be positioned as a discovery platform, not an advertising platform. That's not to say in the future they won't invest in advertising as a form of revenue stream or they won't change their algorithm to be more like a traditional social media platform.

19:02But in terms of how ads show up, it is few and far between to what you would see on TikTok, Instagram or Pinterest. Like I cannot go on Pinterest. Honestly, on Pinterest, I would say every second feature is an ad. Like I actually have to double take and be like, wait, is this actually what I searched or is this, what is this? It'll be interesting to see if they go down the Patreon path, which is like fully anti-algorithm, very much about embracing discovery, or if they go down a path where it's like, okay, let's dip our toe in this so we can kind of get the best of both worlds. I'll be very intrigued to see that if TikTok does move into the direction that you have to opt into an algorithm, what changes within all this?

19:37Yeah. And whether people will still opt in to consume very similar content. I think we've probably rooted more of this conversation in the consumer and like the lack of style or whatever that we all have. But it's also down to the brands and what they're providing to us as well as the consumers. I think that brands are also falling victim to this algorithmic, maybe AI-led way of life that we lead now, even in that piece that Amy O'Dell contributed to. She was saying that on some of these fast fashion sites, if a product is selling, it just automatically triggers that product to be manufactured again so that it's restocked and it never runs out of stock.

20:14And so there's all of these things in the background, I think, that we don't know is necessarily happening as consumers. So I think the brands are also being impacted by the algorithm just as much as we are. It's funny you say that because in the Guardian piece that I referenced up top, they listed that 71 % of the images shared online are now AI generated. Wow. So 71%. 71%. That's scary. Scary. Yeah. I mean, my mum keeps sending me things and I'm like, hi, mummy, that's AI. Golden retrievers don't walk on their back two legs and hold a champagne glass. To round out this conversation, I do feel as consumers there is always a way where we can disrupt that algorithm though.

20:50And I think about my own habits. I'm not perfect, but I am consciously trying to find ways to not just buy the thing that I'm being told to buy, but also the thing that looks like everyone else. And I know that sounds so pick me, but I think to Georgie's point, there are a lot of really good Australian brands out there that you can shop that still have that level of creativity and uniqueness so that you can find your personal style. Equally, you're not the devil if you need to buy a good plain pair of pants. Again, Jo, I love your point around like the problems being put on the consumer. Go back to any 90s Levi campaign.

21:18They're in a white shirt and jean or a white tee and jean. That is still the most comfortable I will ever feel is in a white T-shirt and a pair of great jeans. I just think like there is this thing of like if you're not wearing a show pony item, you don't have a sense of style. It's like for some people, minimalism is their maximalism. Yeah, but that's where you've got to ride out the Carolyn Bissette trend and just stick to it. You know, it's popular right now as well. And everyone's criticizing you and accusing you mads in your white top and black pants for not having personal style. I look like a waiter.

21:48No, you don't. You look fabulous. The heels are really popping off. But that doesn't mean, to your point, you don't have style. It just means that maybe in some scenarios you like to be comfortable as a priority as well. And you still look great. Yeah, we've got to go back to our three words. Yeah. I've got a late night in the office. I'm having dinner there. I've got to wear something comfy. Next up, All For Mimi's search for an assistant to the social media team has turned into an absolute TikTok frenzy. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. nothing much compares to that feeling when you've spent hours deep cleaning your home and you're finally enjoying a glass of wine on the couch your space always feels so much fresher compared to your everyday wipe down but the thing is you actually don't need to spend your whole sunday cleaning just to make your home feel this way the miller guard comfort xl canister vacuum is a must have offering powerful cleaning performance that removes dirt and dust from floors and surfaces with a HEPA air clean filter designed to capture fine particles and allergens.

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