“Private princess”: Carolyn Bessette Kennedy would hate this

0:06This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Dan Murphy's. Find out what's new now and next when it comes to trending drinks.

0:17This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. I am joined by Annika Joshi-Smith and Joanna Fleming. Or should we say Punch? Punch. Punch is hosting today. Punch is hosting. Guys, I lost my shit to that. I am Punch. I was punched. We must protect Punch at all costs. Honestly, like beaten alive. I saw I witnessed I'll tell you what I was done pretty dirty on the social edit too because that wasn't even the flight that I was on so yeah guess what I flew business twice gonna out myself say it with your chest say it with your chest and did that with my points too so clearly if you haven't listened to our travel hacks episode do because I'm clearly doing something right exactly obviously preach sis have we seen the actor awards today have we ever yes I started to see that trickling through obviously we record on a Monday episode comes out on the Wednesday.

1:13As I was getting out of the car, I was scrolling and Gwyneth Paltrow, I'm not usually a major fan of Gwyneth Paltrow, but she looked phenomenal. Despite all of the controversy about Gwyneth, I still love her and I'm loving her breakfast videos at the moment. I know what she said about the sunscreen. I didn't like it either, but I just, there's something I just can't hate about it. I just love it. I love her. I think she's just like, ever since she wore that quintessential green outfit, back in the 90s. I have just always loved her. She's like girl next door. She kind of ties into the episode today with her outfitting.

1:49She does. And just those icons of the, you know, 90s. I often think about the pale pink dress that she wore to the Oscars when she won. Oh, you're divine. And her dad bought her the Harry Winston jewels she wore. I mean, must be fucking nice. But speaking of baby pink, I loved Sarah Pidgeon, who is playing Carolyn Bessette Kennedy on Love Story at the moment. and I was like obsessed with the glam. I actually loved the top half of the dress. I hated the bottom half. Yes, same. I'm too same. She kind of looked like a bonbon, like Christmas bonbon, a Balenciaga bonbon. But her glam was so soft and ethereal and like just, it looked like the best version of her.

2:24She didn't look like she had makeup on. Rode actually partnered with her on this. Oh. So it said get ready with Rode. This is very typical for makeup brands to do. So it'll be like, you know, NARS will have a face that they do or Westman Atelier will have a face that they do for like the Met Gala. but Rode has never really done this outside of Hayley so I loved this like really jumping onto this like cultural moment and momentum so it says get ready with Rode Sarah Pidgeon's Actor Awards Glam by Emily Cheng Makeup Rode product breakdown skin and lips prep with peptide eye prep caffeine reset glazing milk and peptide lip boost body moisturize with barrier butter for all over glow touches of color with peptide lip shade and twist my personal favorite twist and lunge those playing at home a new shade of pocket blush and peptide lip tint coming soon.

3:10Bread, crumb, ming, done well. I was wondering what she was wearing on her chest because the glow as she was walking onto the red carpet, I was literally like, I wonder what her makeup artist used on her chest. I'm glad that you said that. Well, we've got a camera on the train on Wednesday and you best believe the girl will be putting, lathering the barrier butter on the chest. Something tells me I'm not going to look like Sarah Pidgeon, but I will do my best. All right. Well, today we are discussing a TikTok about babies and marriage that sparked a lot of conversation online. we're talking about the Carolyn Bessette Kennedy craze that is influencing fashion and beauty trends right now and how to find homewares and fashion inspiration outside of Pinterest and your algorithm but first what are we swapping in Annika's second last episode we actually are surprised that she's here today honestly so am I last week I actually guys this time next week believe it or not I might be a mommy a mama cedar a mama cedar we shall say watch the space but for one of my final swappings, actually it's not a final one because I'll be gracing your ears from afar.

4:08You know, I've got a lot to say. Your final in-person swap, one of your final in-person. One of my final is this really, really cool man that I follow. And I just love him because his bio reads Tastemaker and that is exactly what he is. So his handle is ian.hippolyte. Sorry if I that but he is just a really cool guy and I don't say that you don't like giving men flowers is that what he's saying like I don't say men are cool I actually would give this man flowers because he's just so trey bian but he posted a video recently and he was defining what he thinks the differences are between being luxurious and being chic and it kind of got me thinking because obviously we're in this time and era right now where it's all about minimalism and quiet luxury and moving into maximalism and the concept is kind of around two things especially like obviously with the cbk moment in mind but listen everybody very closely luxury is having money chic is having taste luxury is saying what you think chic is knowing when not to love that luxury is being seen chic is being remembered love that luxury makes life comfortable chic makes life intentional And then in the comments Someone was like Luxury screams Chic whispers Which made me giggle But In the infamous words Of Ren and Joyce Two things can be true And I think it's very true But It got me thinking about How this concept Plays out into real life And what we see on like Inspiration and fashion And everything at the moment Which would you rather be?

5:41I would rather be Chic As would I Every day of the week But yeah I love him Give him a follow Because he's quite like He's really intentional With everything he does He does a lot of content Around his home around his personal wardrobing. And he's got like a really nice English accent, which I'm just kind of really into. So yeah. Yeah. Can you have a look? I fear it's probably best I don't go to the UK because I do love an English accent. My swap today is not that. It is the Glow Getter Multi Oil Body Wash. Say that 10 times over. You actually got me onto this brand. Naturium? Yep. Is that how I say it?

6:16Yep, Naturium. It felt wrong. Naturium. It didn't feel like it came out natural. I was very kindly gifted this product. And I know something is good when despite having like two or three other body washes, I went into Sephora to buy yet another one. Yeah. So one of my New Year intentions, because you know I hate resolutions, was that I needed to stop acting like my skincare stopped after my nipples. Because obviously my skincare is going down to there. Yeah. Lucky girls. But beyond that, it's like the rest of my body is like, please, think of that ass. There's nothing worse, right? when you kind of like, does your skin color change when it's not hydrated or is it just a me thing?

6:52No, it's like, my legs are like purple when they haven't been hydrated. Oh my God, mine look like a lizard and they kind of like shed into a chameleon. It's actually quite frightful. Yeah, it's when I'm taking my leggings off and like skin coming with them that I'm probably not right. Been there. So I have been using that and I love it because if I forget to moisturize that night, it's like a nice one just to go, oh, well, at least I've used an oil-based body wash. So like there's a bit of hydration going on there. Yes. I really like it. This is why I use the L 'Occitane one, the almond body wash, body oil.

7:23I love when we do the bonus sauce. Can I tell you what I use? The Bioderma oil body wash. That is delicious. It makes me feel good. It doesn't have a fragrance though. Which I like. I'm a Scentsy Sally. Yeah. I'm a bit Scentsy Sally too, but I haven't minded this. Scentsy Sue? Scentsy Sue. Jojo, what you got for us? Mine is another Sephora brand actually, which is Bioma. B-Y-O-M-A. Because I'm always looking for brands that are in a more accessible price point, I'm always mindful of being able to pull from various prices so that I can collate a routine. So I might have a client spend a little bit more on a serum and then I'm trying to find a more affordable cleanser or moisturizer for them.

8:05This brand, I actually trialed myself because I got sent some products a long time ago. This was like before it was in Sephora. And I was like, this is actually a good brand. Like I'm enjoying these products that I'm trying. Really like the Milky Moisture Cleanser. The Barrier Plus Repair Treatment as well is really nice. And they also have a Barrier Plus Eye product too that I've been using and Adrienne uses that as well. But really accessible price points. I think most things in the range are under$30 Australian. So it's Sephora. So pretty easy to get. Okay. Next, we're talking about a TikTok that's all about babies and marriage that sparked a lot of online debate, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor.

8:46It might be autumn, but if you're anything like me and my friends, you are clinging to those last moments of sunshine and squeezing in as many catch-ups as humanly possible before we enter our hibernation era. I'm not saying our social life shuts up shop, far from it. It just looks a little different. We host at home a little more, dinner parties are more frequent, and suddenly we feel like a glass of red wine. So before we reach that point, this is your friendly reminder to pencil in some quality time with your girls surrounded by good food, good drinks and hopefully some good weather. If you need some inspiration in the drinks department, head straight to Dan Murphy's.

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10:00Our first headline for today, would you unfollow someone because they got married or had babies? ladies last week content creator shan riley posted a tiktok saying that she unfollows content creators who start posting bridal or baby content the video has since been deleted but we do have a short snippet from the original video to play so that you can get a little bit of a sense of it no shade and no disrespect but the second i see a chick start posting wedding content bride content bachelorette content baby content pregnancy content i bow out and it is absolutely no hate and know like, I think you're a bad person.

10:33No, I don't think any of that. I physically cannot witness those things because of the season of life that I'm in. And I recognize that there is honesty in that and toxicity in that. And I'm a human. So surprise, there's space for both. So the backlash on this video was pretty swift with numerous creators stitching her original video and sharing their take. Content creator Eli Rallo had this to say about it. Why did you feel the need to get on this app and say, I unfollow people when they become mothers or when they become brides. It was fucking weird to say in the tone in which it was stated.

11:05And then this conversation about it being selfish to have children in the year 2026, my gut reaction, like gut reaction response is that, and this is not fleshed out, but that this is a chronically online take. First of all, why are the people being shamed only people who are becoming mothers or only people with a uterus who are carrying children? I don't see anybody saying it's selfish to become a dad, but I see it's selfish to be pregnant. It's selfish to be pregnant. I see it's selfish to be pregnant, not it's selfish to become a dad, which is interesting. I don't know, chew on that. Like why only person that's being shamed in this conversation is a woman or a person with a uterus.

11:40So yeah, that's odd. When we were talking about this video prior to recording, we came to the conclusion that it kind of points to a wider trend online of people individualizing their feeds to such a degree that they're existing in this hyper-curated personal echo chamber with no friction. There's nothing that they don't believe in that they're being exposed to. So what did you guys think when you first saw this video? I mean, you're about to be a mommy. So why don't you go first? Okay. Before I had context, I was like, what the fuck? I really was like, we're talking about it in our whip. And I was just like, who is this chick?

12:19Like, this sounds like such a new problem. And it sounded like a lot of projecting onto her audience. but then I did a little bit of a deep dive and I looked into who Shan Riley is. I looked at her content. I looked at her profile and everything about this woman is centric around being proudly single. She kind of talks about choosing herself, not settling. And again, it does sound like you problems. It sounds like she's actually had probably some past experiences which has led her to where she is today and that's why she's got such a strong stance on this. You do you. So fine, so fair. But when you articulate your reasoning and when you decide to post a video about it, expect backlash because that is such a strong stance.

13:06Yeah, I completely agree. Also, I'm definitely going to start using the phrase chew on it when I say something because I loved that from the creator that bit back. I mean, much to your point at the intro, Jo, like I have a real gripe with social media at the moment. and I talk about this a lot with a girlfriend of mine who's a research fellow at Movember, Dr. Krista Fisher. We spoke to her for the last episode we did, that algorithms create like narcissism because it can be good, bad, and ugly. You interact with the content that you want to interact with. The more you watch, the more you see, the more it's going to generate content like it.

13:40Yeah. So how do you not strengthen your own belief when you are being served things that feel like, look like, and sound like what you like? Now, that could be as casual as outfits and DIY hacks for like, I don't know, renovating your bathroom. Or it can be as sinister as fake news, political views that are potentially damaging to marginalized groups or to minorities. Or it can be something like this where, you know, it's hitting people. And it's just the shame thing for me. I really loved that sentiment around like, why is this just a conversation about women? You're married, Jo. You're having a baby, Annika.

14:16I'm married too.

14:22sorry sorry you're recently married joe you're recently in well not really recently impregnated that's nearly nine months ago i just think we build these worlds that are our own realities and for me what i was really disappointed by in this was just that it was one way or the other and i do really believe in censoring things to protect yourself and annika i'm sure you can agree with this. When I was going through fertility treatments, nothing broke my heart like seeing a baby announcement. And if I saw that, thank God for Instagram on that mute tool, because that was really hard for me. And I would never unfollow someone.

14:57But also, it wasn't realistic for me to not go on my phone because I work in brand and marketing and I work with PR agencies and I do activations and have to do campaigns and I need to see what's going on in the world. And that is through my phone. So I couldn't unfollow them, but I also didn't want to consume that content. now if I just didn't want to see anyone get engaged or married that just makes me bitter sorry I love love I have had a divorce I said it on Friday I was on the phone with you three bitches when I haven't thank god three years and counting but Friday was a great day Friday was a fucking great day yeah but I was just like can't you love being single and love people falling in love and yeah not have to be so angry at like people choosing a path that doesn't reflect yours This just felt, I'm really ranting, but it just felt like she was projecting.

15:45A thousand percent. And look, I am a party of one and very comfortable in singlehood, find a lot of joy in it. Love going to weddings, love going to baby showers. Both things are like really nice to me. But I also want to hold space for women who maybe do struggle with those life milestones and maybe do find themselves questioning or wondering, when will it be my turn or will I ever get that turn? So I think it is difficult for them and navigating that if you are having a bit of that what about me-ism. Yeah. I think the way that the video was delivered was a really big part of the problem here because I think she thought that she was giving this like feminist take and it just came across a bit condescending and exclusionary.

16:30So the way that it was delivered I think was just not done well but I think she could have conveyed her personal opinion in a way that was just a little bit more understanding and balanced maybe instead of coming at it from a really aggressive lens. It felt aggressive to me the way that she delivered it. But I do think that it's important to curate your own feed so that you don't feel like shit all the time when you're scrolling on your phone as you just alerted to. Like when you're going through a fertility treatment or you've just gone through a breakup. If I was posting my wedding content and someone that follows me was going through a breakup and didn't want to see my wedding stuff, I would be like, please unfollow me.

17:04Like that is the best thing that you could do is unfollow me. Totally. Come back later when all of this is going over. When I've done my content rollout, come back. Feel free. Totally. But sometimes you just don't want to consume that content and that's okay to unfold with someone. Yeah. Maybe you don't need to go about it in the way that Shan Riley did. I know, right? Because it's like one thing to do it discreetly and it's one thing to do it offline. And it's like, you know what? I'm getting served content right now. It does not serve me. And I don't want to see that. I don't need to see it.

17:31It's not doing anything to me where I'm personally at or the season of life I'm in fine. Yeah. But when you go and talk about it and you have such a strong and like quite aggressive stance on it, you then opened Pandora's box. Yeah, it felt quite performative and I also think it veered from personal preference into judgment and that's where I took an issue with it personally. And I also think probably when we were watching it and discussing it, I was like, okay, I am the single one that isn't having children or getting married anytime soon. Although hilariously there was some form of driver outside like blasting some love song that like slowed down right next to John and I was like I feel like someone's gonna jump out and propose I say yes but to unfollow someone that you know if you don't know that content creator from New York don't worry they won't miss you they won't think about you at all totally that's what I was thinking the video was in context yeah with right it was unfollowing creators that you've followed for a certain purpose and then they start to post about other stuff that you're no longer interested in I think if it's someone you know that's pretty fucking harsh.

18:32It's so harsh. Would you reckon like when you obviously started posting content from your wedding, Jo, did you notice like any shifts in followers or any shifts in engagement? Oh, people were like engaging with all of my content. It was going off, but I didn't notice a drop in any followers, but I also wouldn't have been offended if someone said to me on the street, I had to unfollow you because you were posting about your wedding and I just want to know how to look like a dewy dumpling, just like you. Like all I want is this, not this. Imagine. but I also didn't deviate too far I didn't actually really talk about my wedding too much in the lead up like we did talk about in this podcast but on my socials I really didn't speak to it that much I was talking about like my skin prep and things I did a couple of videos but nothing really to do with like the styling or the planning of it or anything like that because that's not my niche so yeah it's been so interesting for me because I actually have got people wanting me to talk more about my journey more about my pregnancy more about pregnancy styling and all these things, which I'm just lazy.

19:30So like I kind of just haven't, but it's been really interesting seeing the community engagement and why our followers come to us and what they expect from us. And I think it's been really quite humbling seeing how much, how invested they are in this journey that I'm in. Yeah. Think of it on the flip side to what Shan Riley has said. What if someone was in exactly the same season as you and suddenly you announce that you're pregnant, they're also pregnant at the same time. They also really love your style. they're like fuck yeah this is jackpot I'm like my favorite person to follow he's now pregnant as well great there's a duplicity that I just think is being ignored here and that frustrates me beyond measure it's okay for someone who loved you last year who isn't pregnant to still admire that style or opt out of it equally it's fine they opt in I just I don't understand at the moment why it's so categorized it's almost like if you're single people feel like they're angry at people for doing these other life stages, people who are mothers have neglected their friends who don't have kids.

20:27Like it just feels like there's these attacks at all ends. And much to the point of Eli Rallo, none of my male friends are like, and I'm unfollowing him because he's a dad now, asshole. Or he is so happy being single and shagging around town. Like no one's angry at, you know, Tom, Dick or Harry. But we're angry at women. It makes no sense. I recommend. Yeah. Someone said to me recently at a wedding, oh, you must hate coming to weddings. Oh. And I was like, why would you possibly think that? Did you say that's an interesting thing to say out loud? I said, I love love. You will not find someone who loves a wedding more than me.

21:03I can double down on that. I've seen her and her element at Jo's wedding. Girl knows how to get down. She love love. She'll be a love love. Also, like, I'll cry at the mum's speech. I'll cry at the dad's speech. I'll cry when the bride walks down the aisle. I'll cry when I see the flower girls. I am the ultimate wedding guest, honestly. You are. I should, Wedding Crash is 2.0, let's go. So I just don't like that there's like this thing where we just assume women are one-sided, one-faced. We can't be multidimensional. We've already been so segmented with patriarchy. Why the fuck are we doing it to each other?

21:37Do you know what I'm intrigued to say? What? What happens when Shane Riley comes out of the season and when she wants to go and announce her engagement? Yeah. I'm going to backtrack, although she did delete the video already. so I know it was swift yeah just another thing we were talking about this Ray and I I think we spoke about it on my just people wanting people to be so definitive at the moment it's kind of like you can't have an opinion unless you're getting to the like full stop end point of that opinion at the moment and I just you know the internet footprint is there forever so like do you want to say that with your chest because like you may not be single to your point forever Shan and you've also got a lot of friends who might be single now but will very likely go into those life stages they're the two most common life stages spoiler alert they're gonna be hiding her from their stories yeah they're not a unique female experience i'd say there's probably more of them than not next we are discussing how the carolyn beset kennedy craze is influencing fashion and beauty trends but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor friends whether you're heading out this weekend having people over or laying low with a glass of wine make your first stop the Dan Murphys app.

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23:10okay our next headline is how the carolyn busett kennedy craze is influencing fashion and beauty now i can't wait to talk about this it's something we've spoken about a couple of times before i mean the ryan murphy show love story which documents the romance between john f kennedy jr and carolyn busett kennedy we've spoken about it a lot we spoke about it when we first saw those behind the scenes glimpses. We saw it when they were doing the test shots and the subsequent backlash online that followed. Like the outrage was outraging. And more recently when the trailer and now the series has come out, we've entered what I would say, like I feel like my feed has always had Carolyn Bessette Kennedy in it at some point, but I feel like we've hit Carolyn Bessette Kennedy fever pitch.

23:54Saturated. Saturated. That whole feed. Every day I'm getting served new content and I'm so here for it. Same, and I'm watching all of it. Right? And each day I'm learning something new. And I'm just like, this woman, like I know we'll get into this, but she is just like... She's an air girl. I'm an all. In Australia alone over the last month, there's been an increase of 30 % in searches. I honestly thought this would have been more, but internationally searches for CBK wedding ring, CBK wedding dress and CBK engagement ring picture have reached breakout status on Google Trends, which means the search terms have increased by 5 ,000 or more percent.

24:28Wow. I did Google her engagement rate so clearly. It's beautiful, hey. You're part of the 5 ,000. It is stunning. Look, there's no denying her style has kind of defined 90s minimalism, which likely explains the influx of social media videos. We're seeing how to style like CBK, how to dress like CBK, how to be chic like CBK, how to be understated like CBK. She's influencing beauty trends as well, though. I feel like maybe we've been quite singular on the fashion view, but in New York, Carolyn's signature headband by French accessories brand Charles W. Waba is according to the New York Post flying off shelves and was doing so even before the show aired.

25:09Doesn't shock me. I feel like the headband thing's kind of been back for a while. At Proenza Schoolers' recent show, Models had low ponytails that were reportedly inspired by her signature hairstyle. Carolyn's signature lipstick, a shade called Cranberry Veil by Face Stockholm, has now sold out too. You both mentioned that it's flooding your feeds, that you've hit fever pitch yourselves and loving every minute of it. I binged it on the weekend. How good is it? All four episodes? Five episodes. Oh, shit. Yes, I watched the latest one where it has the fight in the park. Oh, was that one? I'm up to date.

25:39Yeah, that's the most recent one, I believe. Before we dive into it, I brought this up at a hand. How do you feel watching the show? I honestly feel really emotional watching it because I know how it ends and that has made me really like on edge watching the whole series because I'm like preparing for this tragic event to happen. It's like such a nice series to watch it all unfold. Like everyone loves watching someone's love story evolve in this kind of fictional way. There are obviously a lot of fictional elements to this show. It's not obviously exact fact, but I feel guilty a little bit watching it because there have been people that have come out that have said you shouldn't be kind of profiting off these people's lives.

26:19But it's also just so intriguing to people. It's like, I can't look away. Yeah. It has that effect, right? It actually just makes me love New York City so much. Yeah. I wish that I could have visited like New York, downtown New York in the 90s. I wish I could have been part of that scene. I wish I could have immersed myself in New York City at that time because everything about it is just such a vibe. People are carefree. Like people are just living life. And it was before social media. It was before like they had paparazzi back then where they were chasing them around the streets. And it's just like a different vibe and energy, which I'm just so drawn to.