Should celebrities wear the clothes they promote?

0:07This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Mile. With the arrival of Bye Johnny, The Wolfgang, Sonia Moda and Kinney, it's a fresh new season at Mile.

0:19This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan-Thaw. My co-hosts look a little different today. We do. My co-hosts Rhiannon Joyce and today we have Naima Fatima, Shameless Media's head of socials, filling in for Jojo. I'm back. She's back, baby. Very quickly. Hello again. Quick succession. That just goes to show. Debut worked very well. Couldn't wait to get back in. Yeah, we're thrilled to have you back. Guys, I'm super excited because today we're discussing Zara tapping John Galliano to design seasonal collections and what Witchery's collection with Lara Worthington tells us about celebrity collabs and fashion brands.

0:55But before we get into it, because it is jam-packed, but we will always make space for recommendations. Who's going first for the swap? This is a new... Naima, you go. Because you know what? It just always feels right that I go second. I'm like, Jo's not here. I'll just dictate that you go first. Okay, Naima. Perfect. It's an honour. I'm going to do a lip combo, and I'm going to say it's for the brown girls. Often I look online, I see a lip combo, I try it on, it looks terrible on me. But this one is tried and tested. And it's probably the only combo I do because once I like something, I just don't know how to change it.

1:31So it's the Mecca Pout Pencil in Stella with the Rimmel Oh My Gloss Butter Me Up Lip Butter. That is a really long name. That's quite a name as well, dare I say. Butter Me Up. Butter Me Up in Latte Delight. And it's the, I would say, the perfect day-to-day brown glossy combo. And I love it. And both pretty affordable. I'm so glad you called out the Mecca Maxx Power Pencil because I've had my makeup done professionally probably three or four times this year. Every single individual makeup artist is like it's still go. Like no matter what they've got in their kit, there's like very expensive lip liners in there.

2:06It's still the one they reach for. Such a good product. I have two on me at all times. Yeah. One in every handbag. Has to be that way. If you don't come home with your lip pencil, so sad. It's so regular. So common. So real. I saw one when it was like when you see the Holy Trinity when you wake up and it was like your keys, your phone and your lip liner. And I was like, that is so real. So, so real. Mads, your swap. Go for it. I was going to throw it to you. So thank you. My current obsession on my algorithm is doormen. New York City doormen. Niche, I know, but stay with me. So there's this TikTok account.

2:39Her name is Alicia Liu and she's a creator in New York. she uploaded this TikTok about her doorman helping with all of her unboxings and helping cut down all of the like mailboxes they come in and that she would then divide up the PR boxes to give his wife gifts and was like learning what shades his wife loved and now brands are sending the doorman gifts anyway now I've ended up just on doorman algorithm and I'm obsessed with it I love it like these are really like people's it's like your barista you build these like relationships they're like in your day-to-day life. I just love it. It's so feel good.

3:16It's a side of the internet I'm really happy to be on. It feels like there's this big trend at the moment where people who have accounts on TikTok are blowing up, not because of them, but because of the person that is actually featured in their TikTok. I've just noticed so many more of these. It's like by proxy and by extension, this person is becoming popular, even though they themselves are not the ones who are posting. Rhi, what have you got for us? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there she is. She's pointing going, my turn, my turn. I'm on a Substack roll at the moment. I read one this morning and I had to share it because I also would say I'm in a mood where I just did a Inherited Life Lessons episode, plug, plug, plug.

3:52But I'm in a reflective mood as a result of that because a lot of the conversations we had in that episode centered around what I was like in my 20s versus what I am like now and the things that I do differently and how I've changed. Which brings me to my recommendations, which is Laris Mills substack. Do you guys know who this is? No. She is an incredible creator. Her and her daughter actually blew up on TikTok. She's a more mature woman, but incredibly stylish. She has lots of words of wisdom through her daughter's TikTok originally and then exploited on her own. But I adore her substack. More bitsy style content, not so much long form.

4:25So I've designed for like a quick read if you wanted to smash out a couple. But the one I read this morning, how many times do we have to be wrong before we realize we're not always right? And again, coming back to my reflective mindset. This was a really nice read this morning going into that life lessons episode because I felt like a lot of what she was talking about I could relate to. I'm definitely going to read that. Consider that my bedtime reading tonight. Now guys, in some very exciting news, we have a very new member to the stylish family and I hope I'm not spoiling anything. She's already put it on Instagram, but Annika has had baby poppy.

4:59Baby poppy. She's so cute. I think that our group chat probably has about 25 photos of Poppy and I think I've formed and teared up at every single one. She's so cute. Both Annika and her husband James and Poppy are all doing really well but she's also very kindly given us a swap. The girl doesn't stop. Girl works. So we've got a swap. I thought you meant Poppy. Poppy is like a pure baby organic perfect loving the onesies. We just know that Poppy is going to be very very influential when she grows up. Both her parents incredibly stylish. Annika's already talking about what first words she wants to teach her.

5:37And let's just say I won't put them on the podcast. Let's go to Annika's swap. OK, so now that New York Fashion Week has wrapped, a big trend that I've been seeing on the runways is shirting with detachable shawls and scarves. Now, this is something I'm so incredibly into. I actually bought a shirt set from Sorsa No One last year because it was on sale and it was like the chicest played number, which I can't wait to wear. but Dark Park, or one of my favourite brands at the moment, just released their new Fall Winter 26 collection and it's all about inspiring head-to-toe tonal looks. So I love this kind of look because it's all about multi-use pu-wear investment dressing and I just don't think you can go wrong with a detachable shawl and scarf.

6:18I mean, I love turning to high-end brands for daily inspiration, obviously because I can't afford high-end brands, so always good to take inspo. And if it's Annika approved, it's re-re-approved. Next, we're talking about Zara tapping John Galliano to design seasonal collections, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Every few years, we all get a little sick of our wardrobe. It's science. We're suddenly ready to let go of pieces we were once obsessed with. We're not in the mood to wear anything we own. There's just one problem. We don't know where to shop. This seems to be a universal feeling at the moment, wanting to upgrade our wardrobe, but struggling to find pieces we truly love.

6:55if you can relate that is you've complained to at least one girlfriend Maya are here to save our style they're embarking on a new chapter one filled with fresh energy self-expression and a major lineup of new brands get ready to shop fresh curated edits from by johnny the wolfgang sonia moda and kinney launching later this week and giving us permission to have fun with fashion again this season discover a standout mix of homegrown and international designers and find your personal style again in store and online and only at Maya. A huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible.

7:33Okay so this was everywhere on my Instagram last week. Big news in the fashion world. Zara announced a two-year partnership with former Dior and Maison Margiela designer John Galliano who will be designing seasonal collections for the retailer. So Galliano's first collection for Zara will land in September this year. They have announced there are in fact two collections as part of this partnership, and the partnership will see Galliano re-author, we can work out what that is soon, Zara's design archives. This is a really savvy move from Marta Ortega Perez, the chair of Inditech, Zara's parent company.

8:08As per Vogue, since Marta Ortega Perez was named chair in 2022, Two, Zara has collaborated with other high fashion designers, among them Narciso Rodriguez and Stefano Pallardi. It's also released capsule collections by fashion notables like Kate Moss and Mizell. Naima, I'm going to throw to you because I know you have a couple of notes on this. What do all of these special collaborations have in common? Like what is the shared goal here? Well, I think Zara has been trying to differentiate where they stand in the market. I think they were pretty on a pedestal for a little while now. You know, they kind of stood apart from the H &Ms and the K-Marts and the Targets.

8:45And now we've seen some really big competitors come in with the Sheeans and the Temos of the world. And they've been extremely successful at capturing a youth market. Yeah, it's really interesting. I did read a piece in the Business of Fashion and they said, Zara has responded by elevating its product and retail strategy, raising average prices, introducing more fashion forward and higher quality pieces and investing in more premium store experiences in a bid to capture customers who want something between mass market and luxury. I do think Galliano certainly veers on the luxurious side of things.

9:19This also came out in a recent Vogue piece. In January, Galliano was seen front row at Jonathan Anderson's Haute Couture debut for Dior before spending 10 years as creative director at Maison Margiela. He was in fact creative director of Christian Dior from 1997 to 2011. So we know that he is really playing in that high fashion space. I will say, and I think this is really important for us to acknowledge up top, Galliano's reputation isn't exactly squeaky clean though. As per the business of fashion, Galliano is a transgenerational icon in the fashion world, having conquered younger audiences and largely rehabilitated his image, which was tarnished by a 2011 anti-Semitic rant.

10:00he is a pretty controversial figure, which is something we'll get into a bit later. And to be clear, it's not like Zara's struggling in the money department. Far from it. Last week, The Guardian ran a story with the headline, billionaire Zara founder, Amensio Ortega, to receive$3.23 billion in dividend. That's about$5.26 billion Australian dollars. I love an AUD conversion. That really bumps it up, doesn't it? It does. So if you're wondering about that last name, Amancio Ortega is Marta Ortega Perez's father. So they've kept it in the van. As per The Guardian, Inditex, which owns a raft of high street chains in addition to Zara, including Bershka, Massimo Duti, one of my personal favourites, I will add, Pull &Bear, Strandivarius and Osho, said on Wednesday it would increase its dividend by 4 % after a robust operating performance in 2025.

10:52Okay, my first question is, Do you guys see this working for Zara? I absolutely think it can work. I just think it's so long as they don't dilute Galliano's creative direction and that they adopt a scarcity model. Because I think if we have Galliano everywhere, John Galliano is not John Galliano anymore. To have that kind of scarcity model that is seen in luxury, I think that's the only way for me I see this kind of playing out. And what do we mean by a scarcity model? Scarcity model means that we don't make as much as we have the demand for. In fact, if we have 10 ,000 people who want it, we're going to make 2 ,000 and we're going to make you want it more.

11:28So I think for me, and now Zara is going to have a lot more than 10 ,000 people wanting Galliano for Zara, that's for sure. But I do think this only works if they don't dilute that kind of look and feel. And when I say scarcity model, I mean that they limit the runs so that it is hard to get, it is, you know, hot on the resale market, you know, on the likes of eBay or Depop, because I do think that drives hype and excitement. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't want the designs to just fall into the back catalogue of Zara. Like when you jump into a Zara website, it's like, whoa, there's so much there.

11:59And a lot of it is the same designs as you could possibly get elsewhere. I think what you need here is something that is his DNA and it has to be front and centre. Something I thought of specifically, and I don't know if anyone else has this memory, is Christopher Kane for Topshop. It was the T-shirts with the gorilla print on it and I think that was so specific to his design style and I think people are still trying to buy that so I think what they need to do here is have items that feel very specific to Galliano. Do you know what's really interesting though because I agree entirely his DNA and his flair needs to show up but this is why I'm a little bit confused about why we keep going back to this re-author and this word Zara's archives.

12:46It's really interesting because I would have expected that they had done just a collaboration in a purist form where he comes in almost in a creative director capacity. But this acknowledgement of going back through Zara's archive seems to be really important narrative that they're pushing. Zara is very widely regarded as a little bit of like a control C change at 10 % control V. So to kind of say we're going to go into the archives, it kind of feels like, are you insinuating Galliano is going to take designs that are from a plethora of his peers and then kind of re-engage and re-imagine those.

13:19It feels disjointed for me. Yeah, that's where a layer of confusion comes from me, definitely. I also want to talk about the fact that Zara's current positioning and, you know, it seems to me that they're really trying to position themselves in a more elevated high street level like Coz, which I think Coz has done a really good job at. I do think it is very important to acknowledge that Zara is a fast fashion brand as much as they want to, you know, distance themselves from the likes of Shein and Timu and they're making active ways to do that and working on it. According to a piece written in November, 2025 on Copenhagen Fashion Summit, Zara turns trends into store ready products within 15 days.

13:56So to your point, Mads, they're seeing what's trending on, you know, the runways, what's being shown at fashion weeks, and then they're able to contribute to this trend cycle so quickly by producing products that emulates that within 15 days. By design, that is not ethical. Another point I want to make in the same article, 30 % of fashion garments go unsold, showing the model relies on volume and excess, even if the branding feels more elevated. Yeah. And a big part of their model at the moment that we can't deny is that virality is a big part of that for them. It is that there is, you know, a particular suede jacket or a pair of jeans that goes viral on TikTok and they are just pumping out the volume to support that with that 15 day turnaround.

14:34For me, I think as well, they're trying to play in this space where they're elevating a little bit. And I think we're seeing their attempts to do that through fabrication. I was in there recently. They had lots of leather, lots of suede. And, you know, I'm not used to seeing a$400 jacket at Zara. I think this is relatively new terrain for them. And even their assets. I mean, there's so many jokes online about like, pretend you're in a Zara shoot. And it's like someone like holding, you know, their handbag over their head. And it's like, buy these earrings. But I do think, you know, we're seeing more elevated campaign imagery and e-com imagery from them as well.

15:05I went on today and the top campaign on the Zara website was shot by Stephen Mizell. Yeah. Like that's a pretty big name Vogue photographer. Yeah. I wonder if Massimo Duty has helped them see some success here because it's very interesting that that's owned by the same parent company. I didn't know that before this. And to me, Massimo Duty is very much playing in that COS landscape. And we know that it's working for COS because we're seeing it in that list, top 10 trending brands every year. Cos, Crack It sitting amongst, you know, Prada, Miu Miu, Luayve, like some pretty heavy company when you can go in and buy like a$40 t-shirt from this retailer.

15:41One thing I want to call out is the assumption that everyone knows who John Galliano is. Yeah. Do we think the average consumer knows and do we think they care? Do I think the average consumer knows? Probably not. Do I think a fashion centric person or someone who grew up on Sex and the city or who's been kind of watching this Jonathan Anderson rise at Dior is aware of it now yes I think that they would I think they would know Dior and Margiela more than they would know Galliano and I think it's more about that legitimacy that he brings to Zara over necessarily his design acumen yeah I would argue as well maybe the millennial customer is more aware of Galliano than a Gen Z customer because I think we've kind of grown up in these eras of seeing him as the creative director.

16:35And look, there's two parts to this. There's knowing Galliano and then there's knowing Galliano designs and silhouettes. Ray, what do you kind of think when you think Galliano? Theatre, sculpture, drama. He was iconic in the late 90s. That was so like Lady Gaga, club, another club. I was like, okay, tell me more, keep it going. But that's the intersection of the Zara archives and his unique tone of voice and what he was known for. Like he was quite dramatic and there was a lot of theatre to his shows, whether he was at Dior or Margella. So I'm really interested to see how they bring those two things together and how he reworks these Zara pieces.

17:10One thing I think would be amazing, and I really hope they do, is lean into this being quite a production. and when this collection drops I want to see the visual merchandising reflect the John Galliano-esque era of the late 90s early 2000s I want to see that theatre play out I want to see a show I want to you know me too that's like for me because that was such a big part of Galliano yes yeah like it was performance it was a collection like had a story and that came to life on in show format on a runway and that's what I want to see in September I don't want this to just hit the stores and hit the Instagram feeds.

17:48And, you know, it's one thing for it to be a headline, but for John Galliano to really show up in a way for this to be a moment that will carve out Zara from the rest. If they're saying they want to be like a Timu or a Sheen, or they want to be playing in that mid-tier luxury space and borrowing that, you know, creative flair that he's known for, they have to show up in that way. I literally, in the windows, I want them to be the most theatrical thing. You want Wuthering Heights style windows. Which is so trending right now. and we're seeing that play out everywhere. Yeah. Even in like the shoots because, for example, like one of the biggest parts of his last, one of his last Margiela collections was the makeup design from Pat McGrath.

18:26Like they, not only were the designs incredible, there was a whole world that was built down to the detail of the makeup. So I think when we, not only like with the shoots and whatever the social rollout is, I really want to see something creative and different and not just the normal Zara campaign. I'm so glad you referenced World because the reality is he's under the thumb of Zara in this. And that's not to say he wasn't under the thumb of Dior or Maison Margiela within this, but when you're the creative director versus a collaborator, it's very different. So I do wonder what the terms of this agreement are, where he has control or sign off in things like visual merchandising, in campaign imagery, in who the team is, who the collaborators are.

19:07Because if this is just a you're going to hand over a 20-piece and we'll do the rest, I think we've got a fractured Galliano. So I also just wanted to, I guess, look at why Galliano and why now? Obviously, he's recently left Margiela as creative director, but for me, the choice kind of feels deliberate in terms of the trend cycle as well. I think we're moving away from minimalism and capsule wardrobe. So for that fact, I think picking him was very purposeful because he's not that minimal designer. Totally. Don't you think the whole fashion world was going away from minimalism and then love story dropped and then we're like shit what do we do now the silk dresses are back people are like do I need to get out my turtleneck and my silk slip skirt but I love I love that point because I do think it's very deliberate and I also think trend cycle but also a sign of like the times that he was creative director very much feels like we're in that era going back to that yeah yeah okay final piece of the puzzle that I think we really need to cover off is the controversy that I mentioned up top.

20:08Naima, do you want to go into a bit more detail about what actually happened? Yeah, I think it's hard to have this conversation about, you know, how iconic he was and the incredible designs that he made. And, you know, we really want to see that world come to life without acknowledging his past controversies. There was a documentary out recently called high and low John Galliano in that it covered one of the most controversial parts of his career. I think most of his career he's been controversial, but he's been doing it on purpose. But this kind of covered a moment in his life where it really came to a head.

20:43The Guardian says, in La Perle Bar in Paris in February 2011, a wasted Galliano was filmed making a string of racist and anti-Semitic remarks that included allusions to gas chambers and saying, I love Hitler, fired from his job. That was at the time he was the creative director at Dior. Condemned by media, convicted and fined by a French court, he disappeared into rehab and obscurity. This is undeniably unacceptable behaviour. It is as simple and as raw as that. What I find fascinating about this is somehow with fashion, we have the ability to love the art and not the artist or to separate them.

21:20And it's fascinating to me, the rehabilitation culture that exists with fashion and I look back on Demna and the controversy that was sparked when he was creative director at Balenciaga. I look at Dolce & Gabbana and their commentary around Asian descent customers and around IVF. I look at Alexander Wang and the sexual allegations that surrounded him. I'm just astounded at the ability of the fashion world. It seems like the most forgiving place because of the art form. I don't, I can't make sense of it. All of those people are men. as well. I was like men. I do think this speaks to a broader issue within the industry.

22:00Unfortunately, we don't have time to do that today. Next, we'll be discussing Witchery's collab with Lara Worthington and how celeb collabs like these actually work. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. When this fashion news landed on the stylish desk, we couldn't help but get excited. It's a fresh new chapter for our friends at Mile, as they welcome a host of international and Australian labels to their stores and remind us that the whole point of fashion is to have fun. Over the coming days, you'll be able to shop expressive, everyday styles from By Johnny, The Wolf Gang, Sonia Moda and Kinney, all new to Maya and available in-store and online.

22:35We'll be first in line. A huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible.

22:44Okay, speaking – I mean, I feel like we're having a whole collaboration episode. I actually love this. This is straight in my basket. It's giving a little Friday episode sprinkle to it. Our second headline is that Witchery have released a collection with Lara Worthington. So we're asking how do celeb collabs like this actually work? Last week, Witchery debuted a 28-piece range created in collaboration with Australian model and media personality Lara Worthington. As mentioned, it consisted of 28 pieces, all ready to wear and three footwear styles. The range includes blazers, dresses, skirts, knits, jeans, pants, body suits and a selection of jackets including a bomber and a funnel neck style.

23:23So everything. Yeah pretty much I'm like okay so from head to toe the only thing missing is your you know socks and jocks. Speaking about the collection which apparently took over a year to design and execute Lara said I wanted the collection to feel elevated yet effortless. Pieces designed to fit seamlessly into my everyday wardrobe. The creative process with Witchery was intuitive from the beginning and I'm incredibly proud of what we've created together. It was launched as part of Witchery's autumn 2026 season. This collaboration is clearly part of the ever-evolving rebrand that we're seeing from Witchery.

23:55We actually spoke about the initial rebrand on Stylish way back in 2024, which makes me feel like we've been doing this for a really long time. We have. And we did speak to the criticism that was circling at the time around the fact that they did drop a size range. Do you remember that, Rae? I do. So they actually dropped from size 20 to 18. So they had historically always offered that. And then as part of the rebrand and the relaunch, they dropped that size, which was the main focus of the conversation and the discourse that broke out that we spoke about, but also was mostly on the internet at the time.