Small talk doesn’t have to suck

23:30So you can potentially cause a lot of damage to your skin, not only the risk of infection. So there's so many things I wouldn't recommend at home. That's why I say like blanket, the only thing that I would recommend is an LED device because I know that you're not going to completely ruin your skin with that. I hate pore vacuums. I hate microdermabrasion devices. This shark one, waste of time. It's basically a baby hydrafacial. I don't recommend those anyway. So like just save your money essentially is what I'm saying. Guys, TikTok has a lot to answer for because I feel like all these products always trend on TikTok.

24:01And even when I was looking at different, you know, you always go and look at people that you follow and be like, what's their experience? I would always go to your page, Jo, because you're a professional and experienced person in the field. You're an expert. The amount of TikToks I see from people who do not have a professional opinion and are sharing their subjective viewpoint based on what their personal experience is, I'm not taking away from that. But that is not helpful and that can actually cause harm. It breeds misinformation. Exactly. Yeah. I think the problem with that is that they're free to share their content.

24:31Like they can say, oh, I used this device and these are my results that I got. That's fine. But people aren't using their own critical thinking to be like, oh, okay, well, they've actually got a very different face to me or they've got very different concerns to me. Maybe this wouldn't work. They're using it every day. I'm probably only going to use it once a week. Like kind of use that thought process a little bit to narrow it down. But I would say that probably 80 % of my clients ask me about devices when I'm on a call with them. They're like, what do you think about LED? What do you think about microcurrent?

24:58What do you think? And I'm like, don't waste money. Okay. So if someone was seriously thinking about an LED in like a 10 second lift trip, who would you say an LED device is actually for? Because I feel like that's what most people would be considering buying. Yeah. Well, actually clients will ask me that. And the ones that I tell don't worry about it are the ones that don't have inflammation concerns. They don't have acne. They don't have rosacea. They've really got quite good skin already. And there's no need for them to be investing in a device like that. And I might have another treatment in mind that they could spend that budget on.

25:29So for example, something like skin needling might be really appropriate for them because their main concern is enlarged pores and a little bit of texture. And so that's where that treatment might be more appropriate. If I have a client that's very inflamed, they've got quite inflamed hormonal acne, for example, they've got rosacea, they've got an impaired barrier. That's where I would say, get yourself a device. But also if you've got the budget for it and you want one, it's not going to do any harm. That's the thing. If you are prone to melasma, which is a stubborn pigmentation disorder, steer away from the blue wavelengths.

26:02I did know that. Yeah. And maybe potentially opt for like a panel device so it's not flush with your face. But yeah, stick to the designated treatment time of the device as well. Don't put the Dr. Dennis Gross on for 20 minutes. That's actually a three minute treatment time. So don't go crazy on that one if you've got melasma. But yeah, there's really, there's not a lot that can go wrong with LED devices, especially if you invest in a quality one, because there's a lot of crap out there. Great. We love that hot take. Straight from the horse's mouth. Hopefully I've covered everything because I feel like I had a lot of notes for myself and I just rambled.

26:33Look, you're probably sitting or walking, smiling, hopefully, at people you're passing by and thinking, all right, great, well, which one's your favourite? What you may not know is that LED masks are actually a medical device, which means they fall under the TGA, who is the same body that we keep talking about who manage sunscreen. So we can't sit here and talk about what our favourites are. but we can tell you to head to Jo's video and check out her breakdown where she doesn't share her favourites. She just shares information. Again, link it in the show notes. Easy access. Let's go. Great. One click away.

27:05You're welcome. Watch those views go up, Jo. You're welcome. All right. That takes us to our next segment, which is our guide to event wear for summer. So with the warmer months fast approaching, I know for us based in Melbourne, and we've had a few nice days, which is always puts a pep in our step down here with the cold weather. And we have been asked a lot for our event dressing recs. And we did a segment earlier this year, which was specifically about brands that make great wedding guest dresses. So I think we gave a list of that. And I know that I'm going to have some double ups in this one.

27:39You love what you love. We also have a lot of new listeners since then. True that. Yeah. We've grown quite a bit. Yeah. Popular. So this time we're broadening it out and we're going to cover all things event dressing. So things that would be suitable for like birthdays, events over Christmas, holidays, you know, whatever it might be, we're going to try and cover it off with our recommendations. So what labels are we turning to for event wear? Who do we, who wants to start us off? It feels like we could do one of those Spider-Man where you want to rock, paper, scissors. All right. Three, two, one.

28:14Oh, draw. Ray gets to go first. I knew he went like that. That was so me. I felt icky for you. I know, I know. Okay, so I'm going first because I won. So some of my favourite labels to wear for event wear over summer. Look, I'm going to go start with the highbrow ones that are definitely more expensive. If you're investing in good event wear, the intention is for that to exist in your wardrobe for a really long time. My favourite brands, one of others, Melbourne brand. Arnica actually represents them at Sage. Obsessed with this brand. I feel like, oh, my God, you just cannot go wrong. Every drop that they do, there's so many good stuff, really good mix of everyday wear, not this chat, but also throwing that in there.

29:01Great dresses, really good for event wear. Also, Antipodean. I feel like there's no way I was getting on this podcast and not talking about this brand. The patterns that they have and the textiles. Joe's laughing because famously. Are we going there? Yeah, we're going there. Same with your chest. So famously, I had been mispronouncing this brand for so long, even though I loved it. Loved it sick. Didn't know how to say it. I was saying Antipodium. I'm laughing now. Anyway, I got called out on TikTok, rightfully so, and also, to be clear, I took no offense to someone correcting me. So yeah, famously, I do know how to pronounce this brand now.

29:40It is Antipodeum and it is a brand worth investing in. Their patterns, their textiles, their styles, absolutely beautiful and super distinctive. I just love their stuff. They've got good mini dresses but then also have really good formal wear, probably better suited for like a cocktail wedding or perhaps a 30th birthday. Yeah. Great option. Yeah. There's some highbrow ones. Yeah. Should we keep on the highbrow row and then work our way down? Great. So that we're like, you know, moving through. It's like doing that price list. Yeah, love. So I know we're talking event wear and often we go dresses, but one thing I've loved doing at the moment, I'm being invited to a lot of weddings, which I love a wedding.

30:17Just ask Ray. I tear up a dance floor, Joe, look out, I'm coming in hot feels. I'm like doing the stretching and getting ready to break it down. I love buying a top and skirt now. If there is something that I can buy in a set format so that I can re-wear that top with a pair of jeans or wear it with a different skirt to another wedding because I just kept looking at my closet going, these are dresses that I'm wearing like maybe two or three times no matter how beautiful they are or how much I love them I just don't want to wear the exact same dress to six weddings. Fair enough. And so I am loving Harris Tapper.

30:49I've spoken about Harris Tapper it's I think it was maybe my second or third swap. Recently saw a girlfriend loose wear the top that you actually have right the Harris Tapper top in black with a beautiful pair of pants to a wedding. She looked absolutely sensational. But like the top that you bought or that beautiful pink top I have with a column skirt at a wedding, incredible. Equally, I've worn that beautiful pink silk top with a pair of jeans to the shameless Christmas party. I've worn it to a friend's 29th birthday drinks. Yeah. And I'm like, it was an expensive top. I'm never going to sit here and say$500 is cheap for a top.

31:22But I have worn that top maybe 14 times and from everything to weddings, engagement parties, birthdays. Also one to keep an eye out for, Harris Tapper is on the Iconic and I swear they always have 25 to 30 % off. Like I'm going to say like every two months, two or three months. So save it in your wishlist, put an alert on. So when it goes on sale, you can just snap that up. Yeah. And bonus swap, Harris Tapper actually have a really good sale on their website right now. Okay, great. Other two that I love, St. Agni, I think they do really beautiful sun dresses that you can dress up with a heel or dress down in a little sneaker or sandal.

31:56And also Helsa, who I've bought a few dresses for for weddings events and I find myself re-wearing them one thing I will say disappointingly their quality does vary depending on garments and collections few pieces that I got from her earlier collections were much better quality than things I've bought recently that I've actually found myself returning because I have been a little disappointed yeah I've seen a few creators Kat Spanty buys a lot of Helsa and on TikTok she's done a few I guess reviews of like return or keep style videos and she also made that comment around the quality dipping in recent drops.

32:33That would be enough to turn me off immediately to try a brand because if you're spending upwards of six to eight hundred dollars on a dress and the quality isn't there it's a no for me. One thing I will say too is when I was buying Helsa like all of the dresses that I bought were around four hundred dollar mark and I feel like the prices are really inching up at the moment. I feel like I can click on anything and price can be anywhere from$4 ,000 to$1 ,200. Yeah, I agree. Jo, share some of your racks. I'm keen to hear. I have been spending a lot of time browsing on Revolve lately because a lot of my friends are like, what should I wear to the wedding?

33:03And like, can you help me find an outfit? And so I've just been like browsing. And Helsa is one of those brands that just keeps going. Every time I see something I really love, I'm like, oh, it's Helsa. It's$800. They're not going to buy that. The other brand that I'm seeing a lot is Demi by Gabriela. Yeah, I've seen a lot of this brand as well. Yeah, really beautiful shapes and silhouettes. I really, really love what they're doing. I've never seen them. And Lovers and Friends is another really good one. I don't know that one. Revolve, yeah. Okay, so lots of Revolve recs. Yes, yeah. So Revolve is one place I'm browsing a lot.

33:34Some other brands that I really like for event wear are Significant Other. They do some nice more, like slightly more cash, like more for a cocktail wedding, maybe an engagement party, a 30th. I think that's, you know, the perfect brand for that. Misha is another one. I think if I go wrong with Misha, they always have really beautiful silhouettes on there and like some cool, what would you call it, like sequined ones at the moment? That one that you've got. You've got that one. I love that dress so much. I don't think I've ever been asked if I'd be willing to sell something so much because I don't think they were originally recutting that.

34:06Right. It's this beautiful sequined dress. They originally did it in a red and then Misha actually reached out and I very generously offered to gift me a dress and I picked that. Yeah. And I adore that dress. I was like, no, guys, I'm not selling it one because it was gifted to me. I'm not profiting off that. But two, I just bloody love it. They now do it in a white as well. Oh, second white. Is that a look? Also great for a hens. Yeah. Yes. On the note of hens, I wore a set for my hens, a little With Jean white one. That was great. Also coming into the warmer months because we're not just talking about wedding guests, Rex, we're also talking about, you know, different events, 30th birthdays.

34:39Love a set, as you said, Mads, as an option. I do think With Jean have some really good options. Reformation as well. Yeah. They've got some good stuff. And Faithful, the brand, more of like a linen set summer vibe. Yeah. Love. Faithful in general just have bloody great stuff for summer. Great stuff. Really good pieces and really good quality. Yeah. I think in the same category, Rome and Sir. Yes. Kind of same vibe. Yeah. If you're looking for mix and match and a little bit of colour and something a bit more exciting than like a basic or like a neutral. If you are preferring something a bit basic or neutral, Posie, I think it's pronounced, do really beautiful stuff.

35:17They had that great white linen set that Sophia Ritchie Grange famously wore in her wedding week that was like the little white linen vest and the skirt. They do some great stuff. Funny you were talking about Revolve because there's a great brand on there. I bought a little dress for years ago but ended up wearing in New York for the first time. LPA, the little black polka dot one that I had on. And there's another brand that's on Revolve and Forward called Soroya. I think it's pronounced. I actually bought a dress for Rhea's welcome wedding drinks. Oh, that was hot. Super cute little mini. I like will wear that with sandals in summer to go and like get a drink somewhere like a little bit nicer than like, you know, your local pub or bar, but also wore it with a heel to like an event function.

35:56Gorge. Yeah. Love. Some more, slightly more affordable recs than the brands that we've covered. Perfect Stranger and Verge Girl. Yeah. Alongside, you know, your dishes and like revenues and stuff like that. Guys, also Zara. Zara is doing some good shit at the moment and it's probably largely because they're ripping off Saint Laurent. but there are some really good tops. If you just want to go and spend like$60 to$100 on a great top, like go to Zara. I actually saw Mattie Gooman on TikTok, a very popular creator, known for her like colourful fashion. She posted a new brand called Tohen, T-O-H-E-N, and it was a really cool, I think it was like a butter yellow and it had this really cool like sarong part over the waist with tassels and stuff on it.

36:44Oh, cute. It was really, really cute. I feel like that would be perfect for a summer event, but you could also dress that up for like a wedding. Totally. Yeah, she's great to follow for some inspiration. Just nails, colour. Yes, yeah. Nails her. Such a fun, infectious, like, love of fashion too. It's not my personal style. I don't know that I could ever be that adventurous, but I absolutely love watching her. Yeah, you turn it. And just seeing how she puts things together. She's got a really bloody good eye. Love. Yeah. All right, next we're discussing how not to be a boring person. aka how to get better at small talk but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor

37:24okay a bit of background here i think context is very important context is key for this segment something that shameless listeners will probably be familiar with is a segment called welcome to my algorithm we have also in the stylish studio dipped our toe into this concept before in the past. Last time we did a welcome to our algorithm. I actually spoke about the cutting room floor and the 55k job debacle. If you want to listen to that segment, it's in our September 3rd episode. This time around, we're taking a look at Lucy, our head of podcast algorithm, which this week has had a lot of chatter around small talk and whether we're all becoming, to be honest, a bit boring.

38:05So up top, we just want to add that we know this convo applies more specifically to neurotypical people. So we're coming at this conversation from this perspective, analyzing everyday conversations we're experiencing. So the TikTok that actually inspired this conversation was created by a creator called Nathan, his username S-X-I-N-T-N-A-T-E on TikTok and captioned, stop being a boring person. Lucy brought this conversation to one of our whips and it started a huge debate among the team at the table. In this video, he went on to say, I recently learned that a lot of you don't know how to talk to people.

38:39I would say that relationships are super important to us, obviously. For me, it does really come down to your ability to hold a good conversation. What I like is that he's gone on to give three tips. The first one was stop asking people what they do for a living. Do you guys agree with this first tip? No. No, I agree. I agree I agree it's an annoying question to be asked it also puts a lot of pressure on people to have a cool job yeah and I'm using I'm really using the little inverted commas a lot at the moment on this podcast but a lot of people's identity is tied up in their job or what they deem to be a cool job like I think that has diluted people's ability to see what's best for their career I know we've touched on it a lot right like doing the unsexy things but I feel it does put an unnecessary amount of pressure on people to have a cool job or to be able to off the cuff say cool things about what they do.

39:34Yeah, that's where I think there is a little bit of projection from the person who, if you're annoyed at that question, I think it maybe has something to do with either you aren't really happy or confident in your job or don't feel like your work really defines who you are. It could be one or both of those things. I really have no issue with this question because as someone whose job is like very important to them and I'm really proud of what I do. I love talking about my job, but I appreciate not everyone has that feeling and the sentiment around how they feel about their work. What do you think, Jo?

40:04I don't mind the question. I quite like talking, but I also like learning about other people's jobs as well. I remember when I was dating, I actually liked hearing about what other people did for work because it was like interesting. You get to hear about this whole other side of like what goes on and I don't know what an accountant does every day. Yeah. I don't actually think I went on any dates with an accountant, but yeah. It's fully my favorite part about dating. Yeah, right? Really? I'm like hearing about the business structure, what you're working on. I'm like, I don't like when they work on something that's confidential.

40:33I'm like, come on, I won't tell. When I clicked on the TikTok, I knew that someone in the comments was going to write this. Like I knew that that was going to be like going to echo back to the video being like, I can't stand it when people ask me about my job. It's reductive and all of these things. There were like multiple comments that said this. yeah, honestly, I think it has more to do with the person who's being asked the question if they feel offended by that. Yeah. I think that's very much a projection. Overarchingly, do you enjoy small talk? Do you think you're good at it? Jo? I think I am good at small talk, but also because I've been forced to be.

41:08Like I go, I'm in a lot of situations where I'm with people I don't know, and I'm meeting people for the first time. I'm going to a lot of events where I'm on my own, and I have to talk to strangers. So out of necessity, it's been a survival tactic to get good at it. But also I feel like that was a real strength of mine when dating because it's basically an interview. And so if you can really get down into the depths, I would talk about exes on first dates with them and be like, what was your last relationship? What kind of went on there? What's your family dynamic? I had no boundaries with that.

41:40I was like, whatever, let's just open the doors and discuss because I didn't just want it to be surface level. I kind of find that I just don't really get to know people when there's a barrier there. So I'm straight into the deep stuff. Small talk gets such a bad rap. Everyone's like, I hate small talk. I hate small talk. Sometimes small talk is necessary to build to deeper conversations. You have to start there to move into the more invasive questions and conversations that Jo's talking about. 100%. Like you can't run into someone who you don't really know that well and be like, so I heard about your breakup.

42:09Exactly. You've got to start with how's work. You've got to build. You've got to probe. What I will say, and as someone who does identify as saying I loathe small talk, is when it doesn't deepen from there. Correct. I don't want to sit at the top of the pyramid with you the entire time. One of my prompts is about star signs. I know it's cringe and I know some people hate talking about it, but it is a way to get into the deeper conversation quicker. I'm not one of those people. I love it. Yeah. Like as soon as you're like, so what's your star sign? They'll be like this. I don't know a lot about it.

42:41have you done your rising sign? Let's figure out your rising sign. When were you born? What time were you born? Text your mum. You get into that. You then start being like, oh, so you like this? Oh, you're like that? Oh yeah. Okay, cool. So this is all making sense. And then they start to divulge a bit more information. Which brings up such a great point that it's not a dead end question. And that would be such a big piece of advice for me is don't go, how are you? Because most people go, yeah, really good things. So like, oh, a bit tired or busy. It's like, where do you go from there. So going, what's your star sign?

43:10Is that, okay, now do you know what day you were born? Where were you born? There's lead up questions. Like there's follow-up questions. I do a very similar one. Rhi's going to laugh at this because she knows how me-coded it is. The girls often text me after a date being like, how long did it take you? I ask what your Myers Briggs is. If you haven't done it before, 16 personalities is where you can do it for free. I'm an ENTJ for those playing along at home. We are in the minority 2 % of the population. Is this your colour analysis? Fully. Fully. Fully. Great way. Yes. Yes. And to the point that I want to start a club of just ANTJs where we all gather together just to understand if we're all the same.

43:49Okay, same with me and True Autums. But this is the thing. You answer like 50 questions and it's like, oh, you're learning about people when they're like reading out loud. Oh, like how do you operate under stress? Like, you know, nature versus nurture questions. Like how you operate in crisis. I'm like, oh, you learn a lot about a person. It's an easy way to go from level one to 10 really quickly. This is very similar to the star sign question because you can learn a lot about someone's personality by being like, oh, you know, a cancer is very like, you know, emotional. Are you like that? And then you can learn a little bit more about if they haven't done their Myers-Briggs.

44:22Do you know what else it does? For me, it's more about like how you then adjust your communication style. What you're both doing is really trying to understand it, unpack like, okay, how does this person like move through the world? Yeah. Two very different ways of doing it. but ultimately you're trying to understand them on a deeper level that's also helpful to be like okay now that I've got these little nuggets of knowledge it's like how do I adjust my conversation style also maybe you ask questions that are more tailored to their interest because you're like okay I can assume that maybe they're interested in this and you can build from there it's nice I like it yeah one thing that I feel is a really great piece of advice and Brie I really want to get to you because I think you probably do more small talk than the both of us combined And ultimately, the biggest tip I can give someone is to genuinely be interested.

45:05A hundred percent. I always say, and this is probably the best piece of advice I will ever get on here and give, is I want to be as interested as I am interesting. And the worst thing that can ever happen is to have a conversation with someone who thinks they are so interesting and doesn't ask anything. Could not agree with that more if I tried. The other thing that drives me insane is when people are not actively listening to what you're saying and coming back to your point around wanting to get to a deeper level. You cannot do that if you are not actively listening and looking to build on the conversation with someone.

45:41If you're going in with cookie cutter questions and not actually listening to what they're saying, the conversation is always going to end up dead ended. It's always going to be, you know, feel stale or feel like that typical small talk that we're used to. it's not going to get deep it's not going to evolve and turn into something that feels like that constant genuine back and forth as well yeah yeah so right I mentioned you do a lot of small talk and I didn't mean that in a way that you only ever do small talk because you're probably one of the best I've seen be able to develop from small talk to really deep thoughtful intellectual conversation both with friends and colleagues I've seen both formats I'm blushing yeah I guess I like you back.

46:22What are some hot tips of advice? Because I guess it would also be helpful for you to explain just a little bit of what day-to-days can look like for interacting with people. Look, being able to start, hold and drive a conversation is an essential tool in my everyday job. I have a lot of clients that I have to speak to constantly throughout the day, but also just managing my own team, external relationships. I'm constantly having meetings, client lunches, presentations, the awkward 10 minutes before you get on a Zoom, what are we talking about? I'm constantly having to start, hold and drive those conversations.

46:57And I think holistic understanding of like how you approach conversation is really important. It's not just about starting it. It's like, how am I going to keep this going and keep this like full circle in a way? My favorite tip is actually focusing on the future, not the past when it comes to driving conversation. So what I mean by that is so often people will come to a conversation and say, how was your weekend? And it can fall really flat. Or sometimes what happens is maybe someone had a shit weekend and maybe someone doesn't actually want to talk about it or something's happened and they're then trying to think of a way where they can cover it up and be like, oh, it was fine.

47:36Or maybe I'm really like, something's going on that hasn't been great. If you focus on the future, what it actually gives someone is space to have hope and fixate on what's actually positive that's coming up and you can kind of start to then push the conversation along based on what that is. So, for example, if I was to ask you, Jo, what's coming up this week? You're going to think about the good things first, I would assume. Yeah. What's coming up this week? Yeah. I'm just working. Give me more than that. I have a dress fitting tomorrow. Okay, dress fitting. Oh, my God, that's so exciting. What's the dress fitting for?

48:08Second dress. Okay, so now we've got a conversation that's going to a place. See? See? Don't lead with work either. I love that you touched on that re though because I think at a time in my life when I was truthfully just really struggling and didn't do a lot on my weekends I cannot I don't think I've ever experienced the anxiety that I felt going to work on a Monday because I used to load someone saying how was your weekend and I would find myself just going like pretty relaxing or like oh you know like went to Pilates I'm like well I'm not gonna tell you that I literally rotted in my bed for nine hours struggling to find the will to get up no so instead you flatten it and you'll say something that's like, oh, I didn't get up too much.

48:45And then the conversation does. There's no build. Or you're deflecting and giving so little of yourself to go back onto the person because you don't want to go any deeper. And so I love that. That is probably the best hot tip. What else have you got in your little black book of tips? That's it. Well, it's a good one. No, what else do I have? It's my job to be a good conversationalist. One thing I will flag is I do get frustrated when I'm in social settings where I feel like people who know me or perhaps people who have the assumption that I will be carrying the conversation then don't do any lifting and I'm there doing the heavy lifting the whole time.

49:21This happens a lot at weddings. The old seating chart, Zara and I always talk about the seating chart and how it can like really make or break your experience at a wedding and sometimes if you're seated next to people who make no effort in pushing the conversation along, like you're sitting there for three hours, let's all do some heavy lifting, let's all come into this scenario being like trying to at least get a little deeper and beyond the small talk drives me nuts when I feel like I'm carrying a conversation the entire time. Yeah, it's tricky when you're stuck in a conversation where there is no, there's no end to that.

49:53Like that's a three hour situation. That's not a 10 minute situation before a Zoom. Yeah, that's where it gets awkward. It's getting like, so do you like cheese? Yeah. What's your favorite? No, the worst is when you start getting into the hypotheticals. Would you rather? No, I've done this, to be fair, Louis, just tangent. When you spend so much time with your partner on your honeymoon, for example, we were away for like three and a half weeks. By the end we were like, so hypothetically if this happened, like what would you do? It's like running out of stuff that's all about. My favourite though, and Rhi and I will play this if we have found ourselves towards the bottom of a champagne bottle, is all it takes after a couple of glasses of wine is for me to be like, what's your favourite funeral?

50:32Like what's your favourite funeral song? What's the best first dance wedding song you've heard? What's the best wedding you've ever been to? Okay, you've got one final death row meal. What are you having? Three courses, no more. Go. Oh, I like the death row meal. Chatty Cathy, any tips from you? I think tone and zest bring a lot. How are you? Yeah. And I want to really acknowledge as well, no surprise to anyone, I'm an off-the-chart extrovert. So I find conversation easy. I don't find it daunting. I very rarely get social anxiety unless it's like a big large scale event where I don't know anyone.

51:05That's where I do feel a little bit anxious. But I think tone and excitement and the energy that you bring to a conversation. I think you can ask the questions that we all think are a bit boring. The weather's crazy, isn't it? Or like, how's work? Whereas if I'm like, oh, my God, how's work going? Has it been crazy? If you know anything about their work, you're like, have you seen the bloody hail? Like my dog and I just got drowned in the rain. that's so much so much more impactful and I just think having the intention of that conversation and the excitement to be talking to someone I love meeting new people love learning about what they do for work or what they find enjoyable or who they might know of my friends and just being able to connect dots like it honestly is one of my favorite things to do so yeah I would say just like intent tone and excitement I agree like a puppy yeah just like a little puppy when it sees someone new outside the cafe.

51:58Yeah, you've had that up nicely. Anything to add or you feel like? I agree with all of your points. I agree. You're like, see, all of the above. Yes. Yeah, I've got nothing further to add. Sorry. Yes. Oh, I've got one more. Here she is. She's great. I've got one more. Sorry, we're about to finish. I've come in late. I've come in late. It's surviving or thriving. Oh, my God. How could we forget this? I cannot believe we've just gone this whole episode. I always say this. When I bump into someone I've maybe only met once or twice, I'll be like, oh, it's so nice to see you. like, how are you? I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm really, you know, are you surviving or are you thriving?

52:29And it's such a funny way because people will be like, I am fucking drowning at work. I love this. Thriving or surviving? Yeah. I'm going to use that. Yeah. I've actually started using that now. It's really rubbed off on me, which always happens. Yeah. Well, I also always say two things can be true and people always look at me like I'm so philosophical and I'm like, trademark, Rhiannon Joyce. Yeah, we need to start TM-ing our stuff. That is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Hopefully some tips not to be boring and now you'll know which household devices for your skin not to buy. Also boring, can I clarify, his words, not ours.

53:02Yeah, very important. Two things can be true. Thank you so much for joining us today. And, of course, thanks very much to you both, Rhiannon Joyce and Joanna Fleming. And you, Mads. Thank you. I always love that you thank me back. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au or you can slide into our DMs over at stylishpod. maybe tell us what's in your algorithm that you want us to cover. We can't forget to thank the Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt, senior podcast producer Kate Emmerberg. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday when Riri joins us again.

53:35Yay. See you then. See ya.

53:47Lucy:This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.