The ‘fridge cigarette’ rivalry

0:08This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma's new Hydro bio hydroactive range. If you don't stop, why should your hydration? Find the Bioderma HydroBio range at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. Hello, welcome to our Friday episode of Stylish. My name is Rhiannon Joyce. You are my wonderful co-host, Madison Sullivan Thorpe. How are you, Mads? I'm fantastic. I'm just like having a great week. I had my mum stay over last night and we had like ultimate girls night. We watched the Kylie doco. I cooked dinner. Like it was just really fun. nothing better than reverting back to that mother-daughter like childlike state I always do that with my mum we like do shopping days I like hold her hand in public and then we'll go home and watch a movie like I love that time together girl things sheet masks all the things I loved it like couldn't have been more cliche cliche if we tried can you give me a quick review of the Kylie doco I am loving it so far you know Kylie grew up at that time probably a little bit earlier than I kind of remember culturally like I think I kind of came into Brittany Christina Aguilera, but I think just like the scope of Kylie as a brand and like the way that she kind of burst onto the scene.

1:14And I guess the size of her profile in the UK, I was just like, my God, she's, I forgot how big of a megastar she is. Which shame on me. She is huge. Shame on me. No, no, I think I can understand that because it's kind of come in waves. And I think she's had a recent surge and she's obviously such an icon in the LGBTQIA plus community that I think she's had a huge resurgence because she performed at Pride, I think last year or the year before. Yeah. She had her album drop. She was nominated for a Grammy. So I feel that cultural relevancy piece is just like skyrocketed. Yeah. And like the nostalgia of her is just iconic to me.

1:47Like that is my song requested quite literally every wedding I go to is a Kylie song. And also the only reason I will be asking anyone for tickets to the AFL Grand Final this year is because Kylie's performing. I don't give a fuck who is playing. I will be at that stadium. We're not going to the Grand Final. We're going to the Kylie Minogue concert. it. Correct. Correct. Okay, Mads, word of the week. It's your turn. It is my turn. We had a conversation recently and it totally spurred my interest because I'm seeing them a lot all of a sudden and that is go-to skincare. And I feel like saying go-to skincare isn't even right at the moment because it's almost like go-to the lifestyle brand is where I see it now.

2:22And it's funny because I feel like they kind of dipped for a while in terms of where I was seeing them and where they were meeting me and maybe they weren't meeting me because I'm not their customer. And I saw that they launched this sort of nighttime range. There's skincare, body care. It's very much centered around sleep and lifestyle and life stage. And GoTo launched in 2014, which blink and you'll miss it. Cause if you had have, you know, put a gun to my head, I would have said seven years ago, but the brand's been in market for 12 years. Zoe would have been like roughly 30, 31 at the time.

2:54She's now - Zoe Foster Blake, the founder of GoTo. Thank you very much. My encyclopedia over here. But the brand's now 12 years old and I think they're really meeting their customer where she is now. Like they're moving into this sort of perimenopause stage where, you know, your skin changes, your sleep rhythm changes, and I'm loving what they're doing. And look, Zoe is obviously at the epicenter of this brand. I think she's always been the face of it. She's always been the spokesperson and probably very much aligns with who her customer is. And she's spoken very publicly about perimenopause and her experience with it, which probably, you know, helps shed a lot of like shame or isolation that women feel in that stage of life.

3:35I just, I love what they're doing. I couldn't agree more, Mads. All right. What are we talking about today? Well, talk about Roman empires and things that divide women. I think all it takes - Women, babe, more than women. I think everyone, even aliens would be divided by this. It is like seriously, seriously, the chatter online at the moment. It's divisive. There's a lot of online chatter. There's a lot of in-person chatter. All you need to do is say at 3pm, should we go and get up to know where people stand? And we are doing it. We are talking Coke Zero versus Diet Coke and the divisiveness and passion that it causes today, right?

4:14And there's a lot of it. I cannot believe how ride or die people are for their preferred drinks. I have to admit up top, I am not a regular soft drink user. I do love a Coke Zero. You said a user like you were a Mac or a Microsoft. It's kind of similar. I think people were equally as passionate about that. But I am very, very, very invested in how passionate other people are, but also from a branding point of view, Coke have got themselves in a little bit of a situation. Yeah. And I don't think Coke are unhappy about it, but what spurred this whole conversation, I mean, this is something, as I said, any Uber Eats order among friends or any 3pm office pick me up is discussing this.

4:56But what spurred the convo for us was that the Wall Street Journal recently published an article titled The Ice Cold Civil War Between Diet Coke and Coke Zero drinkers. And it got us thinking about building brand loyalty and how one brand has managed to create two very strongly formed opinions and camps. Like people are on one or the other. And now they're competing with each other and not to pull the cart before the horse, but Coke Zero is sitting pretty and perhaps the favourite child, perhaps getting a little bit more money internally, budgets, based on their performance. I think that's safe to say.

5:30And what a cultural shift that's been because in the 80s and the 90s for so long, it was Coke versus Pepsi. And it was very much the world of celebrity endorsements and who was winning and who could get the best sort of pap shots alongside those. Now it feels like Coke's king and we've just got Coke Zero versus Diet Coke. A little tangent here for you. The original Civil War, so to speak, was actually between Pepsi and Coca-Cola. And I always think back to that original ad. I believe it was Pepsi. It was iconic. It was like in 2001 and it was the vending machine. It was in response to Coca-Cola boasting about outselling Pepsi 4 to 1.

6:08So it was like the OG clapback ad and started a whole series of them. One thing I really, really want to get into, and this is a bit nitty gritty, is how Coca-Cola have designed these tactics or created this rivalry between us. We're going to get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Hold on. I don't know about you, but between a jam-packed schedule and now the arrival of winter, my skin is going through a lot. There's hot Pilates, very cold mornings, new makeup products, stressful days, and the heater constantly blasting in the office. While we might thrive in this fast paced life, our skin doesn't always love it.

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7:19And the textures are beautiful too. Ultralight, water-based formulas inspired by K-Beauty combined with Bioderma's scientific expertise. Whatever you're powering through, Bioderma's HydroBio Hydroactive range delivers life-proof hydration. Find it at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers. And thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. What's really funny to me is so many people don't actually know that these two products are different. A lot of people think they're the same, and I've witnessed myself firsthand so many arguments over how are they different. So I'm going to give you a bit of a breakdown.

7:55Both drinks are zero calories and sugar-free, but Diet Coke has more caffeine in it, significantly more. Yeah. So that's the fundamental ingredients difference. People will try and tell you that they are the exact same. They are not. And I'm sorry to those people who are listening to this right now, but you are technically wrong from an ingredients point of view. But interestingly, from a branding point of view, Mads, they do speak to different customer bases. Talk us through that. Yeah. So in the article, there was a quote from a Coke Spokes person to the Wall Street Journal article that I mentioned up top.

8:26And he said that Coca-Cola zero sugar and Diet Coke attracts similar consumer demographics. However, their distinct taste profiles and brand identities result in each brand largely having their own unique, loyal consumer base. It's clearly a passion point for people from professionals to friendship groups alike. One of my favorite TikTok videos is an oldie and a goodie, and it's from Tony and Ryan, who have a daily podcast. It's great. You should definitely check it out as a side note. but this is so funny and I feel like the perfect, like just little insight into the way it's depicted among friendship groups.

9:02We're going to play it for you now. I was just about to offer you a Diet Coke. Yeah. And they only have Coke or Coke Zero. What's the difference between Coke Zero and Diet Coke? Don't. Don't? Don't bring that shit in here. Don't. We'll be here till Wednesday morning. If Ryan's called Ryan and I'm called Tony and you said, what's the difference? Is it just the names or is it what's in the tin is different as well? I was asking what the difference was. You would just be surprised how different it is. Do you know why I love this? Because so much of this sentiment isn't actually based on what it tastes like and is about how it's being positioned to us.

9:37Like it is very much like how is this product being sold? I really want to know, Mads. First and foremost, who are you loyal to, Coke Zero or Diet Coke? Okay, I'm going to say the unpopular thing, and I don't want the internet to hate me. I'm a Coke Zero girl if I'm at a fridge where both are. Oh. But I'm not mad if I have a DC. Yeah, okay. See, I would say as a non-Coke drinker, I will be honest, I do drink soft drink when I'm like severely hungover, but I'm a full fat Coke girly. Like I ain't fucking around with the no sugar stuff. I need the sugar. That's why I'm there. That's why I go to the source.

10:14Do you want me to give you a tidbit? Yeah. When I was in LA, I was having dinner and Kylie Jenner did walk into the restaurant I was at and sat down two tables over. And Kylie Jenner is also a full fat Coke girl. Oh, look at that. Look at the tape. Actually, I lied. Do you know when else I would drink? First of all, I'm a liar. Liar. No, when I'm overseas, when I'm in Europe or when I'm traveling, I am a Coke Zero girl. But whatever they have, I would drink. Like I would drink a Diet Coke versus Coke Zero. Like I'm not really one or the other. So I'm definitely in the minority here in terms of not being loyal.

10:48What I want to acknowledge is that Diet Coke and Coke Zero are branded to us quite differently and they've really cemented themselves in different cultural moments. Diet Coke at a time was the drink. I want to know why do you think that they were able to build such strong cultural relevancy when they did? I mean, they launched at a time when in the 80s and 90s, it was all about fat-free, sugar-free, being on a fad diet, Atkins diet. Think about the culture at that time. We're talking peak 90s supermodel. Like thin was in, smoking was in. It was like, you know, you were having a cigarette to suppress your appetite, not because it made you look cool or that you thought it was in Vogue.

11:25And I think, you know, perfect segue into Vogue. It was synonymous with the fashion industry. I mean, it was not uncommon for a model to be quoted like Ulla Kate Moss saying nothing takes as good as skinny feels and for, you know, runway models to be papped outside of shows with a cigarette in one hand and a Diet Coke in the other. And I don't think that was a mistake because Coca-Cola were appointing creative directors of fashion houses to be the creative director on Diet Coke. And I'm talking like, this sounds like a Met Gala red carpet. It's like Marc Jacobs, Karl Lagerfeld, Jean Paul Caultier.

12:00It was like, honestly, the A++ list of creative directors. What do you think when you think Diet Coke? I think Sex in the City. Oh, yes. I think early 2000s and it being, again, still having that fashion adjacent alignment, but I do see it as like the go-to drink for celebrities as well. I feel they had really good celebrity endorsement in the early days. They had Whitney Houston, they had Demi Moore, like they've had a longstanding celebrity endorsement campaign. I also think what's really interesting for me is Diet Coke's original positioning in the 1980s, there was a lot of emphasis on taste, but also the word diet, as you said.

12:41So that was very much part of their vernacular. And at that time, it didn't feel like a lot of people were doing that. That feels less relevant now. Yeah. Can I also suggest that at that time, perhaps it signaled cool girl because of all those adjacencies. So you didn't need to be a supermodel or working in fashion or being an actor on Sex and the City or a celebrity, but there was something that it said about you to be having something that was at that time probably a dollar but it was an adjacent it's like an easy segue into that world where for a very small accessible fee you get to feel part of it yeah absolutely I don't know why as well I always associate Diet Coke with office culture and I weirdly remember this ad of three women being in an elevator and they're in this like bougie New York building and they're beautiful by the way like they look like supermodels but they're cosplaying as like normal work people and there's an issue in one of the elevators or on the floor and there's like this super hot this is like old school so again there were a lot of like stereotypes and tropes so bear with me here it was like a super hot like electrician or someone who was coming in to fix and the girls were like watching him and it was all like very like sexy like classic like 90s 2000s ad where it was like there were like always sexual connotations or undertones that like didn't need to be there.

13:56They're in the marketing rooms going sex sells. It must be sexy. But the weird thing is I can't actually remember the product placement in it. I only remember the people. Yeah. But I remember it was Diet Coke and I remember the people, but I can't remember what the product tied to it was. You're like Coke and hot. But Coke and culture. Like this is the thing, like they've created this environment that I'm thinking about something and a scenario and I'm associating the brand. The product didn't even need to be there. Yeah. Which is pretty powerful marketing to put it that way. So then let's flash forward to now, Rhi, because as we've said up top, like Coke Zero very much in the cultural sort of noise at the moment.

14:33What do you think of when you think of a Coke Zero? Fridge cigarette in the office. We call them zoaks. I think it was Shu who came up with that term. I don't know if she was saying it in her friendship group and it just, she said it in the office and it really stuck. And now it's like the thing in the office, They're called soaks. I love nothing as much as the different words that exist. Like we've got CZ, Aziza, Aziz, Coke, no sugar. When I went to the States, I was saying like, oh, should we have Aziz? And everyone was like, what? What? I was like, oh, is this an Aussie thing that we say Aziz and Aziza?

15:07One of the most iconic ones and where I feel like it's really dominated the meme cycle, particularly on TikTok, is the fridge cigarette. And I did say that up top, but that was actually created by Rachel Renault on TikTok originally and went full viral. Yeah, and remember the trend. I remember doing it. It was about July last year. I remember being in New York with a girlfriend and us going, something to take the edge off. I don't have wide enough fingers to be able to hold it. Let me describe what Maddie's doing. She's trying to put her Coke Zero in between her fingers to mimic her holding a cigarette.

15:34It just feels like the go-to drink that young people want. It's funny because, I mean, yes, to a degree, maybe it is an age-related thing, but I remember working in a largely female office building and a vending machine got put in over the road from our office building. We had two offices. There were 750 of us. I honestly think at least once a week that vending machine was out of stock and it was maybe three rows full of Coke Zero to like a one row ratio of Diet Coke. And people would turn away. Like that is how passionate people are. It's like if it's not here, I don't want it. But I found myself falling into the Coke Zero culture because I was like, well, if everyone else at three o 'clock is getting up to go and do something, I imagine it's not dissimilar to like in the 80s, tradies going for Smoko.

16:17I do think there is something in the language piece here as well. And the word diet Coke zero feels more palatable. And I think young people are more receptive to messaging that is subliminal. I think it's really important to acknowledge that at the end of the day, this messaging is still by design to encourage you to take a product or consume a product that is in, I say this in little inverted bunny commas, healthier alternative to let's say a full sugar Coke, right? Yeah. But it just feels less on the nose and less like I'm making this decision to be skinny and I'm more making this decision to be healthier.

16:52Maybe it's because Diet Coke had so much of that association with model culture and to your point, the skinny piece. Yeah. And also, I don't think it's warmly regarded to say you're on a diet now. I think people are like, whoa, what's wrong? Are you okay? Like, how's your mental health? I think if I went to any of my friends and said I'm on a diet, they'd be like, okay, well, why are you on that? Like it's not, you know, it's a lifestyle change and mindset that people are having now. The word diet, I don't think is warmly received. So it's funny because I actually think this is why Coke Zero is actually dominating Diet Coke when it comes to the numbers as well, because we love numbers on this podcast.

17:27Coke Zero actually grew by 4.8 % in the first nine months of 2025, leaving Diet Coke behind, which sat at 1.3 % growth. Absolutely. that language play and that broader strategy around it feeling less like diet culture has influenced that. Which is so funny because caffeine's never been more popular. Like even take matcha as an example. It's still a form of caffeine. People are still having like two, three coffees a day. It is surprising when you think about the facts of the fact they're both zero calories, they're both sugar-free, that the higher caffeine is not the one that is more warmly regarded.

18:01Yeah, I think there's a lot more into this and we can definitely deepen it, but we'll get into how Coke Zero Dethrone Diet Coke right after a word from today's sponsor. We talk a lot about hydration in skincare, but realistically, deeply hydrated skin requires so much more than a quick moisturize in the morning. Our skin is constantly losing moisture throughout the day thanks to temperature changes, exercise, UV exposure and stress. And it's even more noticeable in winter. So take this as your sign to upgrade your skincare to the new Bioderma Hydro Bio Hydro Active range. It's a complete routine of micellar-powered cleansers, a bouncy serum and ultra-light water-based moisturisers inspired by K-Beauty and promising life-proof hydration and immediate flow.

18:45It's available now at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers and thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. Look, we've spoken about dethroning a lot, so let's actually get into it. Ironically, Diet Coke has been dethroned by Coke Zero with very similar consumer behaviour going around. And we don't want to get into a history lesson, so to speak. But I do think a few tidbits on the background of kind of how it came to be. And it was, ironically, the original disruptor before its little sister came and knocked it off its pedestal. But in 1982, Diet Coke launched and was really revolutionary because it was one of the first drinks marketed around taste, not weight loss, which is ironic given the naming convention.

19:26But Diet Coke's greatest marketing achievement was really attaching itself to the word diet. but broadly in the category still focused so heavily on taste. Yeah. And this is why I think they were able to really disrupt the market and have mass appeal. I do want to throw in a recommendation here when we were researching for this episode, I loved this article and it gave a really, really interesting insight into how the concept of Diet Coke was born and also the original brand campaign that ran with it. So it's called Love Diet Coke. You have my dad to thank for that and was written by Jennifer Zimons.

19:57So Jennifer Simon's dad was Sergio Simon and he was the marketing executive who made Diet Coke into the cultural icon in the 80s. So Jennifer obviously had a front row seat to history, but it was a really nice blend of fact, but then also feelings and her own personal anecdote. So if you really want a little bit more of a deep dive, definitely recommend reading that. I absolutely love that, and I haven't read it, so I definitely will. But I think what's so funny about this division for me is that while Diet Coke has undeniably been knocked off by Coke Zero, this is ultimately the best possible case for their parent company, Coca-Cola.

20:33Because as we were saying earlier, the debate for such a long time was, are you Coca-Cola or are you Pepsi? And now they have honed in their market so well that we are now debating whether you're Diet Coke or Coke Zero. And what a beautiful place to be in, because guess what? No matter where your purse strings go, it's all going to Coke. Yeah. I think right now it's fine. I do wonder and I do worry if they are nervous about long-term, how is this going to play out for them as a brand? Because at the end of the day, one market share is getting smaller, one is growing. And yes, to your point, it's all kind of going into the same pocket, but it is giving, paying Pete, what is it?

21:13Rubbing Peter to pay Paul. And because this category is also growing as a whole. So to put it into context, I would say the anti-soft drink or alternative soft drink category and where we're seeing like Poppy and Bobby and all these drinks that have no sugar but also got all the probiotics in it, like this category is getting bigger. Coca-Cola really need to back Coke Zero. I actually think they really need to back one. I think at the end of the day when you have an aging demographic as well, which Diet Coke by design is technically older than the Coke Zero demographic. So we know that. Even though there are a lot of consumers who are young, Coke Zero has that Gen Z millennial audience locked down.

21:54So with that, I think over time, as that demographic starts to age out, are they going to have to reposition their strategy and consider, do we put all our eggs in Coke Zero's basket? Yeah. But to challenge that a little bit, I do think so much of what is anchoring us culturally at the moment is a throwback to nostalgia. Like even if you look at cigarettes at the moment, we're seeing them everywhere. It's like Julie, but Kylie Jenner, Charlie XCX. These were things that were very uncool. We've spent 20, 30 years going, these are terribly bad for you. I can't help but wonder, like, does Diet Coke always have a spot if nostalgia keeps swinging back to certain things?

22:29And ultimately, it will always be a hallmark of the 80s and 90s. You made a really good point when we were chatting before, Mads, about the choice for the Devil Wears Prada to partner with Diet Coke, not Coke Zero. What is your rationale or thinking behind that? That they are happy for the pie to be across the two, but they wouldn't mind Diet Coke having a bigger slice. And also that original synergy, and to your point, the alignment with fashion, strategically it made more sense. It's like, hey, that relationship with fashion was already there. Let's just strengthen that out even more instead of trying to like handball it to one of the others.

23:03And when that first Devil Wears Prada came out, that was peak Diet Coke culture. Coke Zero was like five years old. Let's bird's eye the gender strategy because we know that Diet Coke went hard at women. Like originally it was all about targeting everyone. But then over the years, they really started to have a female focus. What's your take on how Coke Zero are trying to target everyone? Or do you feel like they're really trying to go in on a specific gender? Well, it was funny because I was so fascinated by this that Diet Coke, I didn't realize was so anchored in femininity. I just assumed that it was anchored in diet culture and had that synergy with fashion and that sort of 90s lifestyle.

23:42But the whole reason they actually launched Coke Zero was to try and create a sub-segment that appealed to males who didn't want to be associated with the word diet or something that had culturally become so feminine. And the irony is they've ultimately landed still with a largely female demographic on a Coke Zero. And while it was a feeling, I do also have fact to back it up, but the Wall Street Journal article was saying it was a two prong approach. It was to target both men, and I'm paraphrasing here, but also to have the exact same mouthfeel of a Coke. And so that's what a lot of people argue is that a Coke Zero gives you all of the joy of having a full sugar Coke.

24:21It was funny that that was like what they were targeting when the diet was very much, we're going to make it taste different. Do you think they've landed with getting the male audience? Like when you think about the men that you know, would they get a Coke Zero over Diet Coke? No. So Louis, my one person sample size is like not a good reference because he is similar to you. Like he will kind of flip between them, but he also throws in the mix and this is Rogue and I know it's Rogue. He loves a vanilla Coke, but they've also got a vanilla Coke, no sugar that he's partial to. So he's really complicating this for you.

24:52I just thought they got discontinued in like early 2000s, but go off Louis keeping them in business. I will say more broadly speaking that Coke Zero does feel like the drink that people are ordering at the restaurant and there's like zero shame attached to it. It feels like whether I'm with the girls or I'm with family, even my parents, like everyone is starting to gravitate towards that product. So over time and long term, I think that Coke Zero is just going to continue to get stronger and stronger and that share is just going to get bigger and bigger. And there is one last element I want to talk about, and that is the GLP-1 phenomenon that we have seen and the rise of what is commonly referred to as Ozempic, but is essentially weight loss peptides.