We answer your burning career questions

13:04unknown:Guys, this is one of those perfect examples of shooting your shot. Shot my shot. Don't ask, you don't receive.

13:11Naima Fatema:And I shot my shot over Facebook Messenger.

13:13unknown:Yeah, I mean, probably one of the more unconventional spaces and places to be asking for someone for a job, but it worked out.

13:19Naima Fatema:But I was like, why not? At my next job at Universal Store, which is where I worked as a retail casual as well when I was much younger at 19, I remember always taking the effort to talk to the head office staff. And so when a social position came up there, I just reached out to them.

13:37unknown:That's a really common trajectory for a lot of people in retail as well. A lot of my friends have also had a similar experience where they've started off in that retail store, then they've made contact or relationships with people in head office. It can take some time, but I think it's important to stick it out because opportunities generally do go to the teams internally first before they outsource.

13:57Naima Fatema:Yeah. And also it's like, I had multiple jobs in between then, but it's like more about that long run. And I know lots of people were like, oh, it's just a Christmas casual job. Who cares? It's like you never know where it's going to end up or where that person, your manager there, will be later on in life.

14:13unknown:You always have to make a good impression. Absolutely. It's really important to keep good relationships where you can. I want to talk a bit more about your time at Tiny Disco because that was the role that you were in prior to starting as head of socials at Shameless Media. Breaking the fourth wall here as well. I had actually met you when you were at Tiny Disco and we were launching Stylish and you were one of the contributors for Stylish at that time. I don't know how many people who listen to stylish right now know this. Yeah. But I remember doing a PR drop off to your office. Yes, literally.

14:42unknown:And being like, hey, nice to meet you. And, you know, you were always such a strong advocate for our brand even before you started here. So tell us about that.

14:51Naima Fatema:Again, one of those like crazy career journeys where I looked again at my like resume and I was like, okay, what's missing here? I was like agency experience. So then I went and got a job at an agency because I was like, this is where I could, you know, really fine tune those like leadership skills that I think I was missing in my other roles. What then was, I guess, missing from my day to day was creativity. Like I didn't feel like I was doing the creative things that I was doing in a social job. And I was like, I'm going to just start posting myself. Very luckily, that got noticed by the stylish team and the shameless media team.

15:26unknown:I am going to stop you there. Not luck. That is a byproduct of the work and the creativity that you have. And you have such a distinctive voice and a really unique position on social media. And I think that really cuts through. Our stylish community loved you from the get-go. So now to have you, it's kind of nice having you here and, you know, not even just in a head of social capacity, but the fact that you're sitting here now in the studio, you are very much a person of authority, not just within our four walls, but in the broader social media landscape. So you deserve to be here. You're not lucky, doll.

15:56Naima Fatema:I feel like I've been there since it even launched, before it launched. Like I knew about it before it launched because I was a contributor. It kind of feels like the same as like being on the retail floor in head office again. Literally. Contributor to head of social pipeline. There's a bit of a parallel there. So with that, I think, again, I was like, I can make a really good impression here. In the content that I make as a contributor, I think I can prove that I could be amazing at shameless media. And that was, to be honest, my goal from day one when I took on the contributor role. I was like, I'm going to end up there.

16:31Naima Fatema:Really? I didn't know that. Yeah. I was like, this is where I could be. And why did you want to be here? I've listened from day one. And I was like, that is where I think I can really be creative and grow those channels because I understand the content.

16:47unknown:And you do wholeheartedly. Let's talk more about the creativity piece. because the one thing that I've found in your role, what you've been able to contribute to our business that is so strong and a bit of background here, you stepped into the head of social's role about 12 months ago. You were actually a Matt Leib cover for Michelle Andrews, our co-founder and also the co-host of Shameless Podcast.

17:07Naima Fatema:A terrifying Matt Leib cover. Big shoes.

17:11unknown:Big shoes to fill. Big shoes. But you filled them because all of our social channels have grown exponentially since you've stepped into this role. Michelle is your biggest advocate and has been championing you from afar. She's obviously come back into the office. You have a full-time position here now. Can you tell us what your day-to-day and what your role at Shameless Media is now?

17:30Naima Fatema:Yeah, it's a bit of everything, which obviously is always the most annoying answer. But at the moment, we've got 11 channels and I probably touch in most pieces of content that go out. So I'm kind of responsible for shaping and executing the social media and making sure that it grows, that it's being engaged with, and that we're retaining our audiences across platforms. Distilled, it's just about making really, really good content.

17:59unknown:Okay, I want to move on to the next question because you did get a really interesting one in your own DMs from a listener, Mariam. She asked, has being a person of colour impacted career progression and the way you approach your career?

18:10Naima Fatema:I love this question. So thank you so much for sending this one into my personal question box. Um, definitely when I started, I felt like there was no one really that I could look up to or no one that I saw that was doing a marketing role more front facing. There was probably less front facing people on social media anyway, talking about their jobs. But I felt like I really had not a lot of people that were in, that were people of color that were in creative roles in general. There was like probably culturally as well, there's quite a bit of pressure to go into specific types of roles.

18:50unknown:What types of roles do you mean?

18:52Naima Fatema:Like lawyer, doctor, engineer. Right. Which like obviously might be a stereotype, but that is the stereotype that existed within my own family. So explaining to not only externally, but also internally what a marketing job looks like was quite a hard hill to get over. So I think it's like before I was even in it, I felt like I was on the back foot, which I think really like in one bit, obviously, it like impacted me in terms of I felt like I was on the back foot, but it also made me really creative. Like I felt like I really had to forge my own path and get really creative with the roles that I was trying to apply for and how I got in front of people.

19:32unknown:And did you feel like you had to actively seek out mentorship or in a networking capacity? How did you go about finding people that you felt like had a shared voice or a shared experience to you?

19:42Naima Fatema:I think I don't know if I really did, but I found that because I didn't, I just had a bit more audacity, like, because I was like, okay, there's not that person there. So I need to be there. Like there's obviously a gap of people who think like me and look like me and have my experience in these jobs. So there's got to be a need for it. So I think I got a bit more creative with like how I ended up in front of people.

20:13unknown:Are you motivated by the idea that you could be a source of inspiration or a mentor for other people?

20:20Naima Fatema:Yes, really motivated. I think that was probably my number one reason for putting my hand up to be in the room today and starting to post on social media because I didn't see the content that I wanted to see out there. So I was like, okay, cool. If it's not there and you're not making it, you don't have an excuse either. Like you could do it.

20:40unknown:So get in. I really love that attitude. Thank you for sharing. Okay. Let's move on to some questions that our audience are dying to know. A listener has asked us about the realities of creators that have full-time jobs. This is a sticky one that I will also probably hijack a little bit, but we'll get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. Let's be real. It's hard enough deciding what's for dinner, let alone choosing a wine to go with it. Unless you consider yourself an expert, it can feel a little daunting wandering around the aisles at your local bottle shop. Luckily, our friends at Dan Murphy's have our back.

21:12unknown:They've gathered all of their knowledge and recommendations on the Dan Murphy's website and app, so you can get some inspiration before you head in. Find out what's new and what's trending at Dan Murphy's and remember to choose to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible. Okay, so as I said, we actually received a question that's all about career women wanting to be content creators. This is from Daisy. Do you think businesses actually want this and feel comfortable with it? And if you were to do it, how do you go about it? I'm keen to hear what you think, Naima.

21:44Naima Fatema:I'm very keen to hear what you think. No, no, I said first. You have to go first. I think this is such a, I'm so excited that me and you are in this room talking about this. I think we've got very interesting perspectives on this. Like obviously to say upfront, we both do this on the side. We are like, we do create content from our personal channels, but then we also are on the brand side and have worked on the brand side across multiple businesses. I think it was last year when I was looking to get some talent management, it was the number one thing that was said to me across multiple talent management agencies is that what brands are looking for are creators with jobs.

22:27unknown:Interesting. So this is a trend that you've noticed?

22:29Naima Fatema:Yes. And so that's coming directly from these talent managers saying the type of talent that they're going for are creators with full-time jobs. And I think an additional layer to it is, I'm doing air quotes, cool jobs.

22:45unknown:Right. It's really interesting because we've all seen this surge of content creators online, the nine to five, what I wore to work, and I fall into this category 100 % in a personal capacity. For me, the thing that I have to be really self-aware about is that shameless media has absolutely propelled my portfolio and my positioning. And I'm saying this in little quotations as well of what a cool job is. I've been at Shameless Media for six years now. When I first stepped into this role, I genuinely believed in what Mission Zara were building. I was very committed to doing the work. When I first started out, that was not my intention to leverage this machine or the brand as a way to build my personal profile.

23:28unknown:I was actually more interested in building a personal brand in a business capacity and a B2B capacity. So having more ownership over key moments in the industry, different campaigns and being able to say, I did that. I worked in a very traditional media structure prior to moving to Shameless Media. it was very difficult for me to say I own that campaign or I was 100 % the one who, you know, made that outcome. I was really craving that in a work capacity. And that was something that I saw I could get from Shameless Media. So for me, it was less about the profile building in an external individual creative capacity, more about how could I actually show up in my job and feel like I have a lot of authority and also I have an impact.

24:11Naima Fatema:Yeah. And from more of a like business perspective where like you've obviously started it when you've worked here and it's built over time, how do you think businesses handle it when it's more of a content creator who's coming who already has a profile?

24:30unknown:I think the most important thing is to always have transparency. and you know in a business like ours you had a profile prior to coming in here and we're kind of breaking the fourth wall here but I do think this is interesting and important context for people we have social media policies in place to make sure that we're protecting our people but also we're protecting our brand and our business we obviously take advertising revenue from brand partners so you know sometimes there can be a conflict of interest when it comes to someone working individually on a brand that might be a direct competitor to someone that we're working it's on Stylish.

25:01unknown:All we really ask for is transparency from the get go around who you're working with. We don't need to know the details. It's literally, I mean, you know, this, all you have to do is really send me an email and be like, Hey, FYI, I'm working with X, Y, and Z brand coming up. It's just so we have visibility and can make sure that we're, you know, keeping things separate. But I think the most important thing for me is transparency. And I remember when you started as a contributor and then moved to a full-time role, that was a conversation that you had with us quite transparently. So I will say shameless media is a bit of an anomaly.

25:33unknown:I was going to say,

25:34Naima Fatema:we're in a unique position.

25:36unknown:Very unique. I can understand how certain businesses who are more rigid or perhaps global businesses might have stricter policies or they might not be in the content in the marketing space and not see any value in this. It really does depend what space you play in. There are a lot of creators that I'm seeing right now online saying that they're leaving their full-time jobs in banking and investment because they're being told that they can't have any personal brand on social whatsoever. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think a content creator, if they're doing something that is completely unrelated to what they're doing in their nine to five, I don't see why that should be an issue.

26:11unknown:But also I don't work in banking.

26:12Naima Fatema:Totally.

26:13unknown:So I'm not sure what the parameters and what the actual expectations are in their contracts and how that's enforced. But I can see the value for a beauty brand. If they've got creators in their own four walls. There is also a strength to that as well, but there are also weaknesses. So to be honest, I don't usually sit on the fence, but I see it from both sides. What about you? What do you think?

26:33Naima Fatema:I 100 % agree with you on the industry point as well. It's so dependent on the industry. We saw that like influx on TikTok of, you know, I had to quit my finance job in New York. We saw that everywhere. And similar to my career, it's like, I could not do this when I worked for a global pharmaceutical company. That would be a very different story.

26:52unknown:you shouldn't seek out a job with the intention of trying to be a creator. I think that is a fallacy and that could end up being a problem, not just for you, but for a business. So I would question the intentions. If that was someone's whole purpose of coming into a role, I don't think that's going to work out for either parties. It feels a little misguided. That being said, if you are someone who has an existing profile or you do care about that, that's not to say you shouldn't pursue it. It just shouldn't be the sole reason why you take a job or jump into a certain type of career.

27:24Naima Fatema:Yeah. And at the end of the day, just let everyone know what you're doing.

27:27unknown:Yeah. I think the transparency piece is always the thing that we'll come back to. All right. Next question. This is one is from Jazz. Jazz has asked, what is your best unsexy advice for work?

27:38Naima Fatema:I love this question. Me too.

27:39unknown:I love an unsexy question.

27:41Naima Fatema:I love like, this person knows content.

27:44unknown:Also, Nymer and I have like no notes here, which says that we have like very clear answers. What's yours?

27:50Naima Fatema:Mine is no one will advocate for you as well as you can. I think when you're early on in your career, you can have managers who are really good mentors. They're going to support you through things. But when it comes to progressing in your career, the only one who can advocate for you and advocate the choices that you're making is yourself. You're the one who knows what you do best. You're the one who can be in the room and tell someone that, yes, I deserve a promotion. Yes, this is what's next for me. At the end of the day, the only person who can keep progressing where you get to with your career is yourself.

28:27unknown:I think that is so true. I also always encourage young people, and I did this a lot and one of my old managers told me to do this. I also think I am repeating from a previous episode, but I do think it's relevant in this sense. When it comes to personal advocacy, it is one thing to say, I deserve a promotion. It's another thing to show why. This is why I always encourage people to keep a best work folder of these moments when they've received recognition. It could be from a client or it could be from another staff member internally. It could be, you know, showing that you've gone above and beyond your day-to-day job is what will also support you being able to voice and advocate for yourself.

29:05unknown:I do think it's really important to have tangible examples of why you deserve to be promoted.

29:10Naima Fatema:At my old job, I used to have a folder called Kind Words. in my email.

29:15unknown:I love that. Yeah. Mine was best work. Mine was a little bit more arrogant. It's very recruited. The two personalities. Yeah. The two personalities are coming through them. Okay. Mine is take initiative and anyone who knows me, this will not be a surprise. It's a great one and kind of links back into advocating for yourself. It does. For me, taking initiative has been longstanding. It is always the thing that I was taught from a very young age that you need to be able to, particularly in the workplace, say, I can help, or do you need a hand or see a problem and offer a solution. I really, really encourage people to do that because what it shows leadership is that you're willing to put yourself out there.

29:54unknown:You're willing to go the extra mile to help. And sometimes it can feel like you're just doing spots and dots and you should be rewarded for that. And by all means, we all should be doing what's in our job description, but we know the reality of it is you need to be able to show you're doing an extra 10 or 15%. And I think that initiative is really important to be able to demonstrate that.

30:16Naima Fatema:I agree a hundred percent. And as I've kind of moved from being, you know, to middle to like management, that is the thing I think I look at the most now. Like that is the thing where I'm like, oh, I really noticed that. And I really appreciate that. And I think that's, what's going to move you along.

30:33unknown:I feel really lucky. I actually manage a team of seven, soon to be eight, which is wild to think. But the one thing that I really appreciate and love all the girls in the partnerships team, and I'm speaking about the partnerships team, this is obviously Shameless Media as a whole, but the people I directly manage, the one quality in all of them is their ability to take initiative. I can tell you countless times where they've gotten to something before I have. And I've gone, oh, that is just such a nice feeling to know that you have people in your corner, but also in our four walls that are really willing to take initiative.

31:05unknown:It is by far my most unsexy advice, but also the most important piece of advice.

31:10Naima Fatema:I love that. All right. And now we've got our last question. This is from Satori. She asked, who is your biggest career inspiration and how do they inspire you?

31:20unknown:I love a rec. So also I included three people on this. I was supposed to have one, but that's just textbook me. I mean, I don't know these people. I'll be really honest. one of them I do, two of them I don't, but my ultimate source of inspiration, particularly when it comes to career, is definitely Emma Greed. I don't know if I have to introduce her, but for those of you who don't know, she's the co-founder of Skims, Good American. She's launched a number of brands recently. She is just such an amazing source of inspiration. Her podcast, Aspire, gives you so much access to all different types of people in leadership positions, people who have been super successful, entrepreneurs, you know, really senior C-suite people at high exec companies.

31:58unknown:She's just incredible. And I just love her tone and how she's very self-deprecating in a world where a lot of people take themselves quite seriously. Alexis Barber, who also has a substack too smart for this. I've recommended this on my personal channels and also the Stylish Friday episode. She has been a constant source for me recently. I honestly read her substack every week. And every time I find something of value there that can apply to my job, I highly, highly recommend following her or subscribing to her. And finally, this one is a little bit personal and close, and I do know Brie very well, but Brie Johnson, who is the co-founder of Frank Body and Willow and Blake, which is one of my favorite branding agencies in Australia, I'm just constantly blown away by Brie and how she moves through the world, but also the expertise that she shared with me.

32:44unknown:And on a personal note, I feel very lucky to be in close proximity to her, as well as Jess, who was also the co-founder of Frank Body. They just have such a wealth of knowledge and I feel very blessed to be able to have access to that. And I also really respect when people are willing to share their success and their learnings and their guidance in a way that's very tangible. And both of those women have done that for me.

33:05Naima Fatema:Brie Johnson has been on my list, I reckon, since I was in uni. They were the case studies. I remember Frank Body coming up and being like, whoa, that is the marketing tone that I love, that is so interesting and fun and feels exactly like the tone I want to hear as a woman.

33:25unknown:Absolutely. They know brand. They know female brands. I love that point that you've made, Nightmare. The tone of being a woman. I feel like they really, really have a good sense of that.

33:34Naima Fatema:Okay. Who's yours? Speaking of, you know, brands where I love the tone, mine would be Zoe Foster Blake. I think when I was 21, 20, it was like the copy and the branding used to blow my mind. There was nothing like that at the time. I was like, oh, you can have fun with marketing. Like it's not a serious thing. It's like you can actually target women and sell to women in the way that they want to be sold to. And I loved that she didn't take the direction of what everyone else was doing in market and took a complete left turn.

34:10unknown:Well, coming back to your point up top, it's also a very different trajectory from that stock standard linear approach. She went full sideways in her career. She was a beauty editor. She was at Bazaar. And then she went out on a road and built her own brand. Like that's not a traditional trajectory. Yeah.

34:26Naima Fatema:And like knowing, I guess she took so many learnings from being an editor and knowing what women want and took that and put it into a brand, which is so cool.

34:35unknown:Very impressive. All right, guys, that's all we have time for today. Naima, thank you so much for joining us. How are you feeling? Thank you for having me. That was just like us chatting normally. That's literally what it is and that's what we love. We will be back in your ears next Friday. Feel free to email style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au or slide into our DMs over at StylishPod to keep chatting to us. We love hearing from you as always. Big thanks to the show's production team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. And thank you again, Naima, for joining us.

35:06unknown:I'm looking forward to having you on more episodes.

35:08Naima Fatema:Thanks for having me. I had a great time.

35:10unknown:Bye, guys.

35:11Naima Fatema:Bye, guys.

35:22unknown:This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Hello, it's Ruby Hall here. I'm the host of Shameless Media's interview show, Inherited. New interviews drop every single Tuesday. and now you can find the full-length video version of these interviews on Spotify. This week, I speak to British pop artist Maisie Peters. Maisie is only 25. She's signed with Ed Sheeran, who she casually refers to as her boss, has made her Glastonbury debut and supported Taylor Swift at the Eres Tour. Look, here's a quick snippet of our conversation. I think you're going to love it.

36:00Naima Fatema:My manager calls me and he says, what are you doing, August 19th? And I am just not really paying attention because I'm in this shop. and I'm like, oh, I don't know, like, what am I doing? And he was like, would you like to support Tailswift at the Aeros tour? And it was a huge moment. I mean, yeah, literally a dream come true. I ran into the changing room when my sister was getting changed and she was trying something on and I was like,

36:18unknown:Ellen, you will not believe what I've just been told. To listen to my chat with Maisie in full, just search Inherited on your favourite podcast app right now. New Inherited episodes drop every single Tuesday in the feed. So I'll see you then.