We had split feelings about this listener’s DM

0:07This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Dan Murphy's. Find out what's new now and next when it comes to trending drinks. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. I am Madison Sullivan-Thaw and I am joined by my lovely co-host Annika Joshi-Smith and Joanna Fleming. Hi, guys. She's back. The bitch is back. I don't know that I want to call you that. Oh, my God, off-campus song stuck in my head, you know? Oh, my God. I am still here. I'm still living in the moment. Still at the restaurant. What are we talking about today, Jojo? Oh, we have a meaty one today.

0:43We've got another edition of RUL, which for anyone who hasn't listened to our RUL episodes, it's a little bit different to what we normally do, but we essentially dissect some bigger themes and genres in these episodes. We lean into the lifestyle element of our intro. Yes, these are like lifestyle-focused episodes. So in this episode, we're focusing on life milestones and how we show up for the people in our lives. And it was actually, it came about because we got a DM from a listener that kind of stemmed us talking about this. So we're going to get into that right after we do our swap. And because we know this is going to be a meaty episode, I'm just going to throw it straight to Annika.

1:19Ta-da. Okay, wow. And there's something a little bit more lighthearted. I have been loving colour blocking lately. And I think because we're currently... Mads is looking at this in a full grey outfit. I'm wearing grey. This is me branching out of my all black. So this is progress, guys. But because I think it's winter, everyone's feeling a little bit more wanting to be a little bit more... I don't want to say the word morbid, but sometimes a little bit more morbid in their dressing. Color blocking is so fun and it brings a sense of optimism back to our outerwear, our everyday wear, just everything we're doing really.

1:49And Prada really coined it first because I think they really kind of go quite aspirational with a lot of their looks, but we're now seeing them trickle into the mainstream a lot more of those unexpected color combos. Okay, my first, which I think you guys will both like, really beautiful cornflower blues and burgundy. Are we seeing this? Yes. As well as mustard and teal. I know it sounds a little bit but it does look very nice together soft pink and chartreuse now this is one I'm very into I think it's fair, I think it's pastoral, I think it's fun but you can do it in a few different ways and I think maximalist colours are really going to start making an impact especially once we hit spring, summer so think bold purples I'm looking at you actually I'm looking at you too, I think you could do you both could do quite a cool purple like what shade of purple are we talking about?

2:34I'm going like a real accent like bold, pop, purple. And even reds. Like reds are forever. We know that. I'm kind of liking the purple with tan at the moment. Chic. Great. Okay, thanks. You're welcome. AJS tick of approval. On to the next. Love that. Mads? Mine is my skin's just really playing up at the moment. Jo has been on this journey on panic text calls, FaceTimes. There's just a lot going on hormonally. I know that it's that, but it's like I'm really paying attention to what I use. I've gone back to a trusted trio that I'm like it just works at soothing my skin down it is the number four rationale cleanser the number one rationale serum and my tower 28 sos spray okay and that is just like my holy trinity there's actually a fourth in there the La Roche Plus A Effiglar H moisturizer oh yeah that's in that rotation they're just my like calm the farm bring it back down I'm conscious this is going to be a long episode Jo can I ask a question hands up Jo, would you say that because of the time of year, change of seasons, like are we all going to maybe start seeing a few flare-ups to our skin?

3:37I think it depends on the skin type and concerns. Some people will experience more dryness in winter, like I know I definitely do, and those with more atopic skin conditions like eczema, psoriasis, those types of concerns will definitely see their conditions worsen. Okay, next question. If you've got an MVS in one product, what would it be? Oh, for winter? Yeah. Oh, the Bioderma Atiderm shower oil. I've got that. Yeah, I've got that too. Not sponsored. I know that we are doing some work on this podcast with Bioderma, but that's my genuine first thing I thought of. Yeah, no, I bought it and I love it.

4:07I've got that and I've got the Naturium body oil wash that I quite like as well. I like both of them. Yeah, I also really love the L 'Occitane one, but if you need a fragrance-free one because you've got eczema, then that would be the one. Stunning. Take it away. Mine is the most random one I think I've ever brought to this podcast and I've brought a few random ones with me, including Uno Flip, which I still stand by. This one is Ellie the Elephant. Sorry? Now, Ellie the Elephant, I got sucked down a TikTok hole of Ellie the Elephant. She is the mascot of the New York Liberty in the WNBA, so the women's NBA in the US.

4:41Come again. She is an elephant. I don't know what you were watching to get here. Honestly, I have no idea. I could not tell you how my algorithm led me there to Ellie the Elephant. Do you follow the WNBA? No. Okay. I don't know how I am. I don't even watch basketball at all. Anyway, so she's the mascot. of the New York Liberty, and she does, like, dances with the other performers. So kind of - The cheerleaders. Well, yeah. It's like Bring It On, except she's in an elephant costume. And - I want to do a live Google search of this. You've got to look her up. Okay, so she has her own TikTok account.

5:13She's got 267 followers. She's got this signature stomp dance move that she does, and she twerps. She does the splits. She does, like, headstands. It's wild. And I don't actually know who's under the costume. She's a bit of a deep up. Well, people, she is honestly so cool. And I feel weird saying that about an elephant, a costume of an elephant. There are so many character arcs for Joanna Fleming, everybody. Like, I'm just, I didn't expect this today. Yeah. Oh, Madonna. Yeah. Full Madonna outfit. Right. It is actually so funny. Like, you'll get sucked into the elephant now that you've listened to this episode.

5:49It'll probably end up on your algorithm. I just really loved it. I thought it was just really fun. And, like, women's sport just doesn't get enough attention. And I really love that they're just leaning into this. And she's going off. Where to make an entrance with Ellie the Elephant. Yeah, there you go. I'm going to start watching WNBA. Liberty's my team now. From Jo's milestone of Ellie the Elephant to life milestones, we're going to talk about our audience's perspective on all things milestones, but that's going to be right after a word from today's sponsor. Winter has a funny way of changing our habits.

6:20Suddenly we're spending less time out and more time inviting people over, saying yes to dinner parties and looking for any excuse to gather around a table. And when those invitations start rolling in, it's always nice to arrive with something a little different. That's why we love Dan Murphy's. They're always across what's new now and next in drinks, making it easy to discover something beyond the usual bottle of wine. One of their latest finds is the Brookvale Low Sugar Ginger Beer Can, a premium pre-mix with a great classic ginger beer taste. It's spicy yet mild, smooth yet sharp, making it a great option to bring along to your next catch up with friends.

6:55So whether you're hosting, heading to a dinner party or simply looking to try something new this month, Dan Murphy's is the perfect place to discover your next drink. You can find the Brookvale Low Sugar Ginger Beer Can in store from June 11th and plenty of other trending drinks in store, online and on the Dan Murphy's app. Remember to choose to drink wise and thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible. Okay, so we absolutely love listening to our listeners and this episode was inspired by a DM we received from one of our listeners. Daniella messaged us to say, Hi stylish team.

7:31I'm feeling frustrated because I feel like my girlfriends aren't showing up for my wedding the way I did for theirs. All of my girlfriends got married in a similar period around two to three years ago and now it's my turn. I feel like they're feeling past it and whilst they're being lovely about the idea of my wedding, it doesn't feel like they're very excited. For their weddings, I made myself available for every pre-wedding event, beauty appointments, constant support with their wedding planning and endless conversations over the details. I haven't been met with the same energy and I thought would share the same experience only to be left feeling let down.

8:02They don't seem that excited or involved with my hands either, which is coming up soon. Do you think it's because I'm the last in my group to get married? I feel like it's important context that they don't have kids yet. I don't want to be too demanding of them, but I'd love to celebrate with my friends. Is this normal? Thanks, Daniella. Oh, cyber hugs. Cyber hugs. Like, let's start by acknowledging this just sucks. It does. Objectively, subjectively sucks. It is so hard for any relationship to be a 50-50 and to get what you give and give what you get. It just, in an ideal blue sky, cupcakes and rainbows world, that would exist.

8:42And that's just sadly not the world we live in. And I remember listening to an incredible episode that Esther Perel was a guest on like maybe six or seven years ago. and it was in the context of romantic relationships but I think about it a lot in friendships and it's that you know forget a hundred like sometimes you're both just at a 20 or someone's able to give 80 at a certain time and 20 at another and I think the context of them not having kids is really important because that's kind of the first reason we give someone grace to sort of exit stage left of commitment yeah but there are also other commitments that come up and it might be family members or, you know, relationship troubles, or it might be they're having another friendship trouble or turmoils at their job.

9:26Like, I just think there's a lot of layers as to why sometimes people aren't there. And that can be really hard, but I do still really empathise with that feeling of joy or excitement not being met. Yeah, totally understand that feeling of disappointment that comes with just the feeling of them not showing up. Like, even if, you know they don't feel that that's what they're doing you're perceiving it that way I kind of want to be devil's advocate in a way and I don't mean this in a harsh way but I think reminding myself of this constantly in my own life is that you think about yourself a lot more than other people do yeah so that's sometimes like reassuring I think to know that that yes you are the main character in your own life but you're not the main character in everyone else's and as much as this is like the most important time in your entire life as it should be and should be celebrated unfortunately other people also have other stuff going on that is more of a priority to them yeah so I think just remembering that maybe makes you feel like it's a bit less personal when people aren't contributing in the way that you want them to or showing up for you the way that you want them to definitely it kind of takes me back to your point as well made about 50 50 like we are taught at such a young age that we want to treat others how we want to be treated and I want to flip that because I feel like when you do do that, you almost set yourself up for a bit more disappointment because your expectation is that people are going to give exactly back to you what you gave to them.

10:49And reality check, that's not always real life. And that's so hard. Like I learned that such a hard way. I feel like when I show up for people, I am so fiercely loyal. I think it's the Gemini in me as well. But I just show up in a way that it's like, you know, I'm there. I'm going to be present. Like I will give you 110, even if I'm feeling like 10. and when you don't get that in return, it hurts. Yeah. But at the same time, that's just, again, with the seasons of life that we're all at, I think as well with everyone in this room even, like where we were last year versus where we all are now, we are such at different stages together but we still respect and support each other's journey and it's so hard to actually come to terms with the fact that it ain't 50-50 all the time.

11:28And so we thought that off the back of Daniela's DM that we would actually survey our own community and ask them how they feel and respond to these sort of big life milestones. And firstly, we asked you all, if you're a bridesmaid or a close friend, how important is it that you turn up to a hens and give it your all? 71 % of you said you need to bring your A game. 30 % said you need to be at the event. And 2.6 % said there shouldn't be any pressure to come. So you're not alone, Daniela. I think people think if you're going to be called up for the job, you got to bring like a plus plus plus plus plus effort and energy.

12:06In addition we also asked the audience how they felt about being the last in their friendship group to experience one of those big life milestones and in this instance I'm speaking about those more traditional ones like getting married or having a baby and we got a few responses that I wanted to read out but response one was I'm currently in the throes of friends having babies and honestly I have never felt more grief. For me friendship means spending quality time together and within one year it feels as though, I've lost so much community. I tried really hard to show up for my friends, but having a baby has fundamentally changed everything.

12:39Friends I used to see weekly, I now see once every three months, with catch-ups that were once full of laughter and gossip transformed into an inventory of everything that has happened since the last time we saw each other. Before I met my current partner and decided I wanted to have kids of my own, I was content with the idea of a childless life, satisfied with being an aunt to all of my friends' babies. But these past few years, I have felt like an outsider, as if I am a foreign object in their life, despite being the one who hasn't changed. Maddie, you look like you're going to cry. I could.

13:11Do you know what? I feel really sad by that one because I also face a very real reality that I may never be a mum. And I just, I have never felt like a foreign object in my friend's life. And I don't want to isolate this beautiful listener because I see that and I feel that and I can so easily see how that happens. So I'm hoping I can give some tangible tips of how I've actively tried not to, but I also see and feel that pain and know how easily it could happen. Like, I know you've just had your baby, Annika, but you were one of the last ones of your friends to have one. Did you feel like this at any point?

13:50It's interesting because I think with my journey, I actually relished having all of my friends having kids before me because one it gave me something to look forward to and we don't have family here so I think our friends have become our community in such an extended way like my girlfriend Hannah who you guys have both met and adore she loves you back her daughter Vader who was the flower girl at my wedding I was there the day she was born and I've seen her all the way to who she is today and she's eight years old she's got more sass than I do which is unreal but I just feel like she is my own daughter as well And so at times when I was at my bottom, when I also was really struggling with my fertility and whether or not I was actually ever going to be a mom, having her has always been like, she's my little bestie.

14:33I've literally got goosebumps right now talking about it because it filled a bit of a hole in my heart that couldn't be filled at a time in my life. And I empathize with our listener because obviously she's at such a different stage. And it's so hard sometimes when also all of your friends are sharing a journey and you're feeling a little bit left out of that conversation. so I guess Mads like your tangible tips I want to hear them because how does she involve herself how does she become part of that chat how does she include herself without just putting her hand up to be like I don't know the nanny or you know anything else totally and I want to start by saying no one's at fault here no like I think the empathy that I have for all of my friends who have had kids and I have friends who've experienced that really differently is that this is probably the most life-altering time for them their identity is shifting it's their biggest identity shift it's the brutality of you know their life looking really different now and for some of them you know stepping back from work's really hard if that's what they're doing or you know having a really tough baby is really hard and sleep deprivation all the things for me it's being really really honest about what is possible for your friends who have babies and kids you know it changes and I think it's really important to think of it as like seasons so when your friend has a newborn going for a walk or a coffee or taking Uber Eats to their house is the easiest way to see them.

15:54Like meet them in their environment. And I know that might feel unfair. And I know that the wine bar and the gossip and the big belly laughs and drinking too much and Ubering not driving is probably more fun. It's probably more fun for your mum friend too. But this season, she's at home. It's better for her to be there if the baby wakes or naps. Like it's such a big exercise to get out of the house. Yeah. And then I have like, and so I have a lot of friends that are probably in that under one year old phase. So I like to think that I can kind of meet them there. But I also have some friends who have older kids who are in this beautiful transition phase of wanting to get back to the wine bar and feeling comfortable with the babysitter.

16:31So I think it's that you just have to bend this little bit and you can think it's unfair as the one without kids, or you can just go, you know, this will come back around, this will swing back and we will find our new wine bar version just at a different time. Jo, I know as well you've spoken a lot about, you know, your decision and whether you will or won't have children. Some of your friends have kids. I actually really like that take of yours, Mads. I saw a video the other day by content creator Danny Duncan and as soon as I read this response from this listener, I was like, I have to insert this here, which we have like snipped down a little bit, but I think it's really important to share this perspective as well from someone that is choosing to be child free because I think that's also you know maybe it's not going to come around for someone else that relates to this comment as well if they choose not to have kids so I thought Dani's perspective was really interesting we'll play that now.

17:26When all of your friends start having children and they no longer show up for you and they no longer see you and they no longer even ask about how you are that is one of the hardest things about being child free as an adult and And I know this because I've talked to so many people who are experiencing this. And whenever I bring it up, people are like, yeah, I'm feeling a lot of grief about my friendships changing. And you're not a bad person for being this way. And it doesn't mean that you're not showing up for your friends that are having kids. It just means that you're a human that also deserves to be seen and asked how you are and cared for.

18:00And I know this is a really big problem that a lot of people are facing. I was facing it as well. And so I knew that I wanted to do something about it because it's one thing to go, oh, we'll just find new friends in, find new child-free friends. Where? How are you meant to do that? I think this transition in like late 20s, early 30s in friendships, like we don't really talk about it. But for women in particular, there is a huge impact on our friendships, especially if you're in different seasons of your life. And if you're not quite at that season yet, like our earlier listener, Daniela, like she was the last in the group to get married and maybe feels like all of her friends like, oh, been there, done that.

18:37We're not really that interested in your celebration. Maybe there's just this kind of like misunderstanding or misalignment between your seasons. And so that can make it challenging to kind of like still relate to each other and those types of things, which, as you said, it kind of will come back around eventually. once, you know, kids are at a certain age and they're at school and, you know, their mum is back working or whatever it might be, then you have other things that you can share in common. But I definitely can understand where that grief is kind of coming from. And it was so funny that Dani said exactly the same thing.

19:06I've read this response and I was like, oh, I think she needs to hear this. I think she just needs to hear that she's not alone in feeling that way and doesn't need to feel selfish or self-centered for feeling like that. And that she's grieving these friendships that once were super, super valuable to her in the way that they were. Yeah. And I think as well, a lot of my girlfriends who have had kids, for them having those really solid friendships that aren't just mum friends is really important as well. And I don't want every response to all of these things to be that if your friends have become mothers, that you bend and mould around just that.

19:38It's having empathy for them. But equally, as women transition into mothers, I think it's really important that your only community isn't the echo chamber of just people who are mums and just people whose kids are the same age as your kids because you won't know any life outside of your own if you're only around other people who have kids at the exact same age doing the exact same things. You know, I do want to have that empathy of it's not just the person who's last or isn't going to do it bending around. I really like that you made that point because I think something that I've also kind of struggled to say out loud, and this is a safe place, I'm just going to do it anyway, But I think something that comes up often in my friendship group is the fact that it's okay when you are a new mum to mourn your past life and to mourn my past self.

20:24And even saying that out loud, it makes me feel proud of myself because I think, you know, I have my own business. I have worked really hard to get to where I am today and I never, never wanted to give up so much. And I think it's so interesting where I'm at right now because I knew it was going to be hard. I knew the season was going to be really hard, but I don't think I anticipated just how hard. And being able to actually talk openly about it has been so important. But also something I love when you guys came over, like you wanted to know all about Poppy, which love. But also I wanted to know about you guys.

20:56I wanted you to keep me informed of what's going on. Like tell me what's happening in your love lives. Tell me what's happening just in general. And I think something that's really important is just to actually remember that for a mum sometimes as well, that sense of escapism with your girlfriends again and actually having real talk and just chit chat. God, it felt good. Like it's just those things that kind of take you back to you again. There was another response that was very different as well to that initial one that Mads read out. This one says, I think the benefit of being a little behind others, married later, kids later, is more compassion for the fact that you never know what's going on.

21:29And so to take a lack of support personally is to be tunnel visioned. I found being last upsetting at first, then experienced a weird desire to look hot and kick career goals to compensate, but then unexpectedly found a huge sense of peace in knowing that everyone else, especially those with kids, had so much going on that they didn't really care what I was doing in a good way. That mindset helped me to put myself out there more, dress more creatively, be less self-conscious. A huge blessing that I feel set me up to be a more complete person by the time I did get to those milestones, which I think is such a positive way of looking at that.

22:03And again, it's like, you know, you think about yourself so much more than other people do and you never know what's going on in someone else's life. So don't let it bother you too much. Yeah. Can I give another positive take on being one of the last? And one of my beautiful girlfriends, Georgia, she's 33. She has three beautiful young children and she was really emotional one night sort of saying to me, thank you so much for, you know, you always, and I feel bad calling on you to show up if you can help me or like drop off a coffee and that you offer. And I said, do you know what is such great Joy, if I do become a mum one day, she is going to have done every phase up until probably 10.

22:40I'm like, girl, you are going to repay so many favours. Now that doesn't mean it's tidbit for tidbit, but I'm just like, oh my God, what a blessing that all of these women who I love and trust will have all these lived experience that I can be like, how y 'all doing? I need some advice. Like there's some benefit in being last too. Yeah. I have to double down on that because Because I feel like there have been so many things that like you just don't get taught, right? Like guys, winding is a thing. Oh my gosh, I could go on about this all day, every day. But it is a thing. And having been able to rely on my girlfriends who have been in this stage, they're like, oh my God, that stage, wait till you get to this.

23:16I'm like, oh God, buckle up, baby. Like there's more coming. But having that lived and relied, like good advice. And like there's so much advice. The internet is just like, yeah, don't go there. but having friends that you trust and can rely on best advice ever and just to your point vader i can't wait she's probably going to be like 18 by the time hoppy's 10 so i'm like hello babysitter game clocked next we're finding out what milestones you actually care about but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor there are a few things better than getting a recommendation from someone who really knows their stuff that's exactly why we love dan murphy's Their team are constantly keeping an eye on what's new, what's trending and what drinks people are talking about.

24:00Whether you're looking for something to bring to a dinner party, planning a weekend catch up or simply keen to try something different, they've made it easy to discover your next favourite drink. Head into store, jump on the app or browse online to find out what's new now and next at Dan Murphy's. Remember to choose to drink wise and thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode as stylish possible. So we wanted to know more about the actual milestones that you have some feelings about too. So we've got a few stats to read out. To stay on the wedding theme for now, if you were a bridesmaid for someone, did you feel the pressure to invite them to your wedding is our first question.

24:4045.6 % of you said that you do for some people. 27.2 % said no. 16.7 % said yeah, and I want to return the invite. And 9.6 % said, yeah, and I don't want to return the invite. Thoughts? I mean, there's a big difference between being invited to be in the bridal party and being invited to the wedding at all. Oh, yeah. Yes. I think if I was a bridesmaid in someone's wedding, I would expect them to be invited to my wedding. Yeah. But I don't think you can be asked to be in a bridal party. What if you're not friends anymore? Oh, that's a big one. Like if you've really drifted apart, you haven't seen each other in like three years gosh it's hard so when we were doing our wedding guest list we made like we sat down and we were like okay who do we want in our lives moving forward so that was kind of one of the things when it came to doing our guest list but it is very circumstantial like going back to that point joe i just it's funny i've been in so many group situations when my girlfriends have had a few too many drinks and oh they've told me how they really feel and it's literally been like but it happens like this is real girl chat if I wasn't in one of my girlfriend's bridal parties and they were my bridesmaid I'd be pissed you'd be shitty about it I think I would be like I think I would I'm a diva like that I think this is where it gets complicated having a bridal party and we spoke about this in the bridal series Rhi and I were talking about this I that's why I chose not to have a bridal party because it just eliminates the complete it's one of the reasons but it just eliminates the complexity of like having to choose favorites yeah yeah and I think as well like if you look at it from a sense of okay your childhood friends who you're still your besties versus new friends like how big is this bridal party maybe going to be and then sometimes as well so many of my girlfriends have gone down the route of no my sisters are just going to be in my bridal party family's the safe bit it is safe yeah i tell you what else is nice just invite some of your favorite girlfriends over get ready with them and then off you go that's cute i like that what i've told my girlfriends you find me the husband you can be a bridesmaid simple a tech joke we found when looking into themes for this episode.

26:39One we found was by creator Princess Olya111. She spoke about how frustrating she found the comment of finally on engagement posts. We asked you if there were any comments that you dislike seeing on people's engagement posts, e.g. finally or hardest secret I've ever kept and why it bothers you. You can probably tell by my voice how I feel about these. The sentiment was pretty mixed. A few of you had a lot to say. Some of them were, it's easy to read between the lines. Some messages are more about proving that they know this person better than you do. Others said that comments like this are just a bit embarrassing and a transparent flex, but they don't bother me.

27:17Another response was, all of the above. Also, future misses, assuming they'll change their last name. It just feels regressive and traditional. Engagements and weddings, unfortunately, highlight gender inequality in our society in a pretty stark way, to be honest. speaking as someone who's married. Have you ever done this? Like I finally, I don't know if I have or not. I'm just trying to think back. Like, have I done this? I actually did this recently, you guys. I'm calling myself out. I know. What did you go with? Oh my gosh. Okay. So my brother-in-law and my now sister-in-law, I'm so excited, Sam, hi about this.