When influencers ask for free stuff…

0:08This episode of Stylish is brought to you by New Balance. The tour for us designed to be styled your way with a versatile silhouette that works effortlessly with your wardrobe. Discover the collection in store or online today. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, lifestyle, brand and beauty. I am Joanna Fleming. I'm with Rhiannon Joyce and Annika Jotty-Smith today. Intro-ing again. How did I end up in this? I love it. I don't know how I ended up doing this. I basically just forced you to do it. So, Jo, you're doing the intro. Well, we've been seeing this particular trend happening on socials at the moment.

0:43And I really wanted to get, because Arnica, I know you'll have a really good list. Actually, you would as well. But Arnica is like our bougie person in the room that will always have like an outrageous recommendation. I cannot wait to hear your list of these things. So if you haven't seen it, a lot of people, mainly on TikTok, are doing their five things that are worth the money. And it's just like things that you would spend the money on time and time again, if you could, because it's that worth it. So, Annika, I want to get your list off the bat and then I'll throw to you, Rui. Okay, apologies in advance.

1:14Tabby's, a classic luxury handbag. Mine is the Loewe Flamenco, Augustine's Beta, the rich cream. I know, I know, I know. Keratin, hair treatment and Kate, everything but Kate Denim particularly is that freaking good. Oh, the dream list. We knew you were going to nail this. I saw we. How about you, Rui? Okay. Mine is not very chic, but an electric toothbrush every day of the week. I'm obsessed with mine. I like that one. Yep. RLB. Thank you very much. The Westman Atelier bronzing drops, took these to Europe. I unfortunately will be repeat purchasing because they are quite expensive. A piece of art.

1:53You decide what you love, but I always think it's worth investing. A good pair of runners. I'm a runner and I just, every time I've spent the money, it's always paid off. My niece and at my age really need the extra support. Didn't have your toenail though. No, no, never, never. The toenails, you just, actually, it's grown back. And the Charlotte Tilbury flawless filter. I've tried all the dupes. They don't stack up. Good ones. Jo? Well, mine is very beauty heavy, but I want to start with a coffee machine because the cost per use is like in the negatives. What machine are you rolling with? I think we have a Breville.

2:29Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I've got the Lillette and it is bomb. Yeah, it's honestly, it's really good. It's very easy to use as well. The Osmosis Rescue, which I've mentioned on this podcast before, a really great anti-inflammatory serum. It's very expensive. It's like 250 bucks, but I swear by it. Laser hair removal. I've pretty much had my whole body lasered and it is honestly the best thing I've ever done. I would do it a thousand times over. An at-home LED mask, but only if it's a good quality one. And lip blushing. Yeah. Absolutely no regrets about lip blushing before my wedding.

2:58It is honestly the best use of my money. I never really have to wear other lip products. So it saved me money. in that way. I'm almost convinced. I'm almost convinced. I've convinced a few other friends to have it done. Actually, Kate, I think you, did you message me about it the other day? Yeah. Kate, our senior producer messaged me about it. She's nodding off, Mark. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not making that up. And she's getting it done. So another, another influence by you, Jo. I reckon I need to do it because I can't leave the house now without lip liner. Like that's become my thing. And I'm like, okay, I think, I think I'm on the bandwagon.

3:28My problem is that my lip products would just wear off so quickly. And then I feel like I'm having to reapply all the time. That's me. And if I'm busy, I just don't get a chance to do it. All right. The swap. Okay. So as we all know, or if you don't know, I am a new mom. I've got a beautiful little four month old, which is shocking to me. I'm going through a sleep regression right now. Hence the very, very tired eyes. But thank God for Kosas concealer because it's making me feel somewhat alive. But I came across a really beautiful article this week and it was by Courtney McIntosh from the Inara.

3:59And the headline read, the career I wanted before motherhood isn't the career I want now. And this one made me stop in my tracks because I think motherhood often we talk about the highlight reel and a lot of the time we don't talk about what it's actually like, what actually makes you feel. And for someone who has had their career being so intrinsic to their identity, I'm going through the motions now where I still want my work to be really important to me, but I'm just trying to make it work within my new chapter. And this article was so beautiful because it was real talk. It was talk from another mom herself who's interviewed so many moms.

4:34And the common theme that always pops up is how can we actually adjust? This idea of balance doesn't exist. Like, respectfully, anyone who's on the hunt for it, good luck. I don't think you're going to find it. Spoiler alert. Absolutely. Like, I think it's all about just not feeling so alone in these feelings, especially if your career is something you want to fall back to and not being so I guess feeling bad about like taking a pause from your career and then trying to like find what that new season's going to look like for you so I really enjoyed this article for anyone who is a new mum or a mum or is a mum to be wanting to be a mum beside a family I think definitely have a read because it was insightful yeah just to double down I read this after you shared it in our meeting last week Anika.

5:17It is so good. And I'm not a mum. I'm not pregnant, but it's definitely top of mind for me, how you go through that transition, how you prepare for yourself. And I felt like the article really covered a lot. It was really nice to read and know that there are people out there that have a shared experience. So I loved, loved that recommendation. Me. I'm swapping in an account this week. So this is for the girlies and maybe the guys who love fashion brand deep dives on fashion brands as well. A lot of streetwear brands. So his name, he's a boy. Why are we laughing? Because we never swap in guys. I feel like we always swap in like girl accounts.

5:54Yeah, the girls. His name is God's Way Williams and he is just so switched on. He's really covering a lot of athleisure brands at the moment. He did a really good deep dive video on Billabong as well in the history of Billabong. And I just love following his content. He's super engaging. I feel like more brands need to be working with him as well. He's super smart. He's got really cool style. I just love following him. Nice one. Bring back Billabong. Bring back Billabong. Roxy. Oh yeah. Was that my Blue Crush era? Babes, I'm a Gold Coast girl. This is like speaking my language. Oh, I know. I always forget that.

6:28I know, I know. Jo, your turn. Mine is a product that is kind of starting to go a little bit viral. I'm seeing it everywhere and I happened to have a sample in my cupboard and I was like, you know what, I'm going to start using this. I want to know what the fuss is about. It's the Anua PDRN Hyaluronic Acid Hydrating Capsule Mist. Very long name. It comes in like a clear bottle and it's got like little, you can almost say little blobs of like blue stuff in it. I feel like I have this. Is it a Korean brand? Yeah. Yes. You might have it. I don't think I've used it though. It's a mist. Yes. Yeah. So it's got PDRN Hyaluronic Acid.

7:01It's got some other hydrating and barrier supportive ingredients in it as well. It's like a lightweight, watery formula, but then it's got these fine oil-based capsules in it. So it's really moisturizing, I find. The mist is really, really fine. So I actually find you have to spray it like a number of times versus some other mists I have that are like, you know, three sprays and you've pretty much wet your whole face. You've got to do like 10 sprays to like feel like you've got something on your skin, but it's really quite refreshing. So you can use it as part of your skincare routine before you do all your serums and things, or you can use it throughout the day if you've got makeup on to kind of freshen up your makeup.

7:35It's just a really nice kind of product to have there. I actually really froth a mist. So do I. Yeah, me too, especially when I'm traveling. Like it's such an unnecessary product to have in your skincare routine. Like it's something that you could definitely drop. It's an optional. If you can afford to have it in your routine, have it in there. But if you can't, it would be like the thing that I would drop out. I'm going to pretend I never heard anything. But no, I do really love this mist. I like the habit of it. Like it's very habitual to spray your face. I love doing it on a plane. Yes. Yeah.

8:02It's my fave. What are we talking about today, girlies? So big episode today. We're going to kick off with Phoebe Gates' AI shopping at Fia. I know we've spoken about Fia on the podcast before, but I'm not sure if you guys have seen in recent headlines they've come under fire for taking affiliate credits on purchases they allegedly didn't earn. And there's a bit to get through with that one. And then we're going to wrap up discussing whether or not it's weird for wealthy influencers to ask brands for free product. But we will get into that right after a word from today's sponsor. One of the biggest shifts we've seen in fashion over the past few years has been moving away from dressing for trends and more towards dressing in a way that feels like you.

8:37We're seeing people build wardrobes that are much more intentional, investing in pieces that they'll wear over and over again. And I think shoes are one of the best pieces for that. The right pair somehow works with everything, becoming part of your everyday uniform rather than a statement piece. That's why the New Balance 204 feels like such a natural fit. It has a clean, understated silhouette that's designed to be styled your way. Instead of defining your look, they add and adapt to whatever your personal style is, whether that's relaxed, everyday dressing, or something a little bit more elevated.

9:06It comes in four really considered colorways and suede too, so there's an option regardless of your aesthetic. If you're in the mood to add a really versatile sneaker into your rotation, you can shop the New Balance 204 now and store online at newbalance.com.au. Thank you so much to New Balance for making this episode of Stylish possible. As I said up top, Fia, Phoebe Gates' AI shopping app has landed itself in some very, very hot water, all allegedly at this point in time. We will have our little legal hats on throughout this segment. You will hear allegedly a lot because this is still very much a moving beast.

9:43So for those of you who don't know, Fia is an AI powered shopping app. It was actually founded by Bill Gates' daughter, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Chiani. They've recently come under fire last week after an investigation by Bloomberg claimed that they'd been taking credit for sales they didn't actually generate. This piece we will include in the show notes. It's definitely worth reading, guys. It's very, very illuminating. This is a really serious allegation and other brands have been in legal battles over similar practices. We're going to unpack that in a moment. We think it's really important first to tell you more about the brand.

10:16So Phoebe and Sophia, the founders, went on Call Her Daddy and were talking about their business. And she actually had quite a candid conversation at the time about nepotism. And we were speaking about that on the episode when we were discussing it. And they had so many investors in this brand. Like they had Khloe Kardashian, they had Alex Earle, Mindy Kaling. I remember the Call Her Daddy episode, yes, because of the nepotism thing, but also because they referred to how they actually got Kris Jenner to invest in the app. Yes. Look, affiliate marketing can get a little bit jargony. If I'm being really honest, there's a lot of buzzwords.

10:49So we're going to try to explain it in the most like layman's terms. So basically Fia is an app where the purpose of the app is for it to be a browser extension tool that it basically scans the internet. So while you're shopping, it will scan the internet and help you find alternative versions of the same item at the lowest price. So let's say I'm on Farfetch and I found a jacket that's$1 ,000. It will go scan the internet, do all the heavy lifting for me and basically pull up any other websites that have it at a cheaper rate. So it's trying to be a really efficient AI shopper in a way. It's like your shopping assistant.

11:21And I think that's why it got our attention originally, because again, they came to disrupt. That was the whole goal. And for time poor women and people in general, I think having someone who can scale the internet for you and actually find a lot of alternate options as well as resale options. We really love that sustainability piece, how they called out looking for secondhand pieces that also had that great value add as well. So I remember being quite excited and genuinely excited when this first was announced because it was offering a real solution. So I think a problem that a lot of us time poor people have.

11:55Yeah. And affiliate marketing isn't new. It's been around for a really long time. But I agree with you, Anagra. It felt like it was offering a fresh, very almost like a young take as well. If you guys aren't familiar with what affiliate marketing is, it basically means that Fia or any other affiliate marketing company earns a commission when people make purchases through the Fia app while using that browser extension. Let's get back to the allegations that Fia is actually facing. And again, guys, this is a bit jargony. There's a lot of legal stuff and it's very tech heavy. So we're going to simplify it in the best way that we can.

12:25So the testing was done by Bloomberg Capital One Shopping, which is also an affiliate marketing brand and an independent researcher Ben Edelman. So they're claiming that Fia has been doing something called cookie stuffing. We're going to hear a lot more about Ben. And stuffing cookies. So cookie stuffing is a form of affiliate fraud from a website where they secretly place a tracking cookie on a person's computer without their consent or knowledge. And most importantly, without the person having clicked on the affiliate's legitimate link. So to be specific in Fia's case, what has happened here is that it's alleged that fear was opening up background tabs when a user was checking out on a merchant's website and then injecting their referral code so that fear would be paid a commission when the consumer made the purchase but they would also override any other affiliate codes for their own code which means that they're allegedly illegally claiming commission that wasn't theirs to claim.

13:22According to TechCrunch other startups have been sued over cookie stuffing, notably honey, which we're all laughing at Mike. I feel like we've all been a sucker for like a honey coat. I was obsessed with honey. I had the extension. I was always looking for my little deals growing up. Honey is actually owned by PayPal and remains a subject of an ongoing class action lawsuit. PayPal has been locked in this lawsuit for over a year and is being sued by YouTube creators for loss of affiliate commissions. Bloomberg's investigation found that FIA was claiming credit for sales, it didn't actually drive, which most affiliate programs strictly forbid.

13:57FIA has actually made a comment on this. A FIA spokesperson had this to say, within the last 24 hours, we were made aware that in a recent release, our code base was causing misattributions from a subset of users. As soon as we were notified, our team worked overnight to identify and mitigate and has since resolved this issue. Bloomberg then retested the extension after contacting FIA and found that the cookie stuffing was no longer happening. But it's kind of a little bit too late given that it was happening. There are some really serious ramifications for cookie stuffing. It is a type of fraud.

14:29So this is going to have a fallout essentially. What do we think is playing out in the FIA office right now? Probably crisis mode. Definitely some red alarms going off. And, you know, from a brand trust point of view, this is less than ideal given that they are not a very established brand. What I will say is Phoebe has an established last name. And I think there has been a lot of weight behind the launch of their business, given she is related to Bill Gates. So Bill Gates is her father. It's interesting to me because a lot of commentary I've seen online, there have been people saying that they don't want to participate in the female founder tear down story or narrative because they're both really young.

15:08They're females. We need to be supporting women in business. To that, I would say, I feel it's very important that we acknowledge that Phoebe Gates's journey of as a female founder is very different to the average female founder. The average female founder does not have the Rolodex that Phoebe would have had handed to her by her dad. And let's be really honest, there's not a world where she's not going to her dad be like, can you open doors for me? Absolutely. I know the original Call Her Daddy episode, they really, you know, went deep on the nepotism piece. But the reality of it is she has still had an upper hand to most people.

15:44And that is also why I think a lot of people have been quite angry and reacting to this story with a lot of negativity or commentary and why his name is also being brought into the narrative. Because she's had a very, very different journey to be able to build this business, to be able to raise 35 million from the run sheet of celebrities that you were rattling off, Jo. There's so many more. There's Alex Earl, there's Rachel Zoe, you know, Kris Jenner. These are serious names. And I do believe that those doors will likely open because of the relationship that she has with her dad. Yeah, absolutely.

16:15You can't deny the X's. I wouldn't want to be in their boardrooms right now because I think those conversations would be, I'd be sweating at those tables. I think for a brand that is not super established and is very much in the mode of disruptor in this industry, as I said, up top affiliate marketing has been around for a while. I think how they've tried to position themselves in the affiliate game is that they've got a fresh modern take on affiliates and they do appear very AI led. People don't trust AI. People are very skeptical. You then have a very reputable, very trusted media outlet like Bloomberg and an expert in affiliate marketing coming for your brand.

16:55It is very, very difficult to build that trust back with a consumer. To your point, Jo about the number of celebrities that have backed this brand as well it's also that trust and that awkwardness is then translated to the investors because they did a full public post announcing who those investors were so we know it's Alex Earl we know it's Khloe Kardashian we know that Rachel Zoe there are some big names on that list who are now associated with this brand and it's eroded their trust yeah totally and I think this is that kind of greater issue as well. When you look at a brand that's pretty much what's a year old, if that, maybe just a little bit over.

17:31And within that time span, they really have raised so much capital within their business. And I think when I kind of drilled into it a little bit deeper, I actually follow Kate McAndrew over on TikTok, and she made some really interesting points around the due diligence checks and like, how did this happen? Because when you've got a beast this big, they've got code, they've got tech. I'm not going to even try and claim and be a tech expert right now because I don't even know what it means, but it kind of is this big shiny thing, right? You've got these names. You expect that people are doing that due diligence for you.

18:01You expect that all of this is kind of happening with your investment. It's a sound investment. But James and I, my husband, were actually talking about it last night. And I was like, babe, remember we invested in crypto? Like, did we do any due diligence checks? And he was like, fuck no. We just got on the bandwagon with the big shiny thing and lucky it paid off. But this is one of those things where, like you said, right, we already don't trust AI. I don't trust the robots yet. Here I am using Claude. But it's like you don't know where your information is going. There's the privacy piece. There's just that unknown element, which unfortunately I think puts the fear in people, the fear even back in anyone playing within this space.

18:39And I think that like those conversations at large within the FIA head office right now, how do we get that trust back? Because we've already lost so much. It's really interesting to me because I think a lot of the sentiment online is very negative and very like anti-capitalist, anti-billionaire because Phoebe is the daughter of a billionaire. So, yeah, it's one of those scenarios where I can appreciate why people are frustrated. Yeah. You know, a lot of people can just look at this and go, spoiled rich kid, made a business and then that business is not working out. People have actually gone to jail for this.

19:12So that's why we're kind of talking about this situation, because what are going to be the ramifications for Phoebe and Sophia as the founders of this business and other people that are involved in the business? A really good TikTok by Catherine JK simplified this for me. She detailed another case of affiliate fraud involving eBay that Ben Edelman also uncovered. That was his OG uncovering. He is the GOAT. He's a full sleuth. Affiliate sleuth. I love that. So a guy was running an online ad network and had banner placements on heaps of different websites, and he made$28 million from eBay commissions by modifying his software so that if you visited a website with any of his banners, he would, without you knowing, cause your browser to contact eBay and receive an affiliate tracking cookie, which made him the referrer so that if you visited eBay at any point in the future to buy anything, he'd receive the commission for that purchase.

20:06and he actually went to federal prison. I think it was for - It was five months. I watched the same video. I found that was such a good explainer. One for us to include in the show notes as well. Yes. It's a really good like breakdown of exactly what has happened here and examples of other scenarios where this has played out as well. And as we said before, Honey, who are owned by PayPal, are currently still going through legal proceedings in relation to this as well. Okay. So do we think that they're going to make an example out of fear? There's going to have to be an investigation into how long this was happening and who it happened to and how much money has been generated as a result of this.

20:39And I think that will determine the outcome here from a legal perspective and whether that's fines or other forms of legal action. This is so layered. It's just so scary as well because obviously going back to the eBay case that you just spoke about, Jo, it sounds really strategic. It sounds really like well thought out, calculated. Like the code situation still blows my mind. If it wasn't for Ben Edelman, that guy would have gotten away with that. He needs to update his LinkedIn. Affiliate Sloot. Affiliate Sloot. Don't fuck with Ben Edelman, okay? Don't even try to cook his stuff. That's the closing statement, guys.

21:17Next, we're discussing whether it's weird for wealthy influencers to ask brands for free products, but that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Even if you have your makeup routine locked down, most of us aren't opposed to trying something new just because our friend recommended it. Speaking of, I have two product recs to share. Well, three, because the first is an incredible lip combo. The new YSL Love Nude Kiss Shaper Liner and Love Nude Lip Blusher, which give this soft wash of color and blurring effect that's perfect for every day. Then there's the Bobbi Brown Vitamin Rich Face Base Plus.

21:46There's a reason this features in so many makeup tutorials. I'm actually wearing it on my face now. It's the best of the best with 24-hour priming and five times more vitamins for glowing makeup-ready skin. Shop these products and so many more at Maya online and in-store. And a huge thank you to Maya for making this episode of Stylish possible. So last week, influencer Alexandra Leclerc came under fire for messages that showed her allegedly requesting a gifted item via DM from Australian brand Runaway the label. Now, if you're not familiar with Alexandra, aside from being a very, very popular fashion and lifestyle content creator, I think she has millions of followers.

22:19She's also the wife of Ferrari Formula One driver Charles Leclerc. I feel she's really popping off lately because she was at the Chakmose runway. She's been invited to the show quite a few times. and I feel like she's really breaking into the fashion world as like a legitimate creator. I feel like she's done a really good job at building her personal brand also outside of being Charles Leclerc's driver. They also really well know. Driver. Driver, wow. I was going with. Wife. He's driver in life. Probably. Probably packs his bag and everything. No, they also just got married and their wedding was absolutely stunning.

22:56So I feel like she's coming off the back of a serious run of engagement online as well. Like she's pretty well known now. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Runaway, the label, who have a very big following on socials, I think they've got like 700 ,000 followers on Instagram, 80 ,000 on TikTok. They posted a TikTok about this exchange in their DMs and they turned the phone and showed a screenshot of a DM that they allege. I mean, we can visually see it. We saw a blue tick. Yeah. We saw a blue tick. It would pretty, I mean, in the conversation of AI that we've had today, don't trust anything. you don't know apparently this dm is from alexandra from what we can see and the dm reads hi i was looking at outfits for my upcoming summer trips and i was wondering if you'd be interested in sending me this blue set it's so cute and it's she's just like basically replied it's just a reply to either an ad that she's seen or just a random post on their page but the reaction was not really what i think the brand anticipated there was a lot of backlash and a lot of commenters were really angry that a very wealthy influencer was asking for gifted items instead of just buying it directly from the brand.