Why you can’t stop talking about these two brands

16:18Rhi:And Bayner, I would say, resonates very well with a millennial customer. Very much so. I was really surprised when they did their gifting suite here at the number of people they had through that door. And also the fact they did that in the first place. They flew team out here. It would have been very easy for them to have Leaf run that, can't. Leafs speak to the product. But the reality is a PR agency can rarely, I'm so sorry, PR girlies, speak to the brand the way that someone who works in a brand 24-7 can. And so they sent their press team here. And I was like very impressed and shocked by that.

16:53Rhi:What did you make of all of that?

16:54Mads:From what I saw on socials, it was very intimate. It was very thoughtful. But as I said before, there was a lot of depth in the types of creators that they invited. A great level of diversity as well, which in the Australian media landscape, I think is very important and sometimes a miss that beauty brands don't get right. So that was also great to see. I'm really curious to see where the brand goes from here because as you said, they don't have a lot of launches or product innovation as much as their competitors are. And I'm really curious to see how honing in on that older demographic serves them in the long term.

17:26Mads:I think it'll be really interesting to see how that strategy continues and if they look to introduce or innovate new products? Or will they focus on specific products in the Australian market that would bode well for the Australian climate or the Australian consumer that perhaps don't in other international markets?

17:43Rhi:Yeah, incredibly intrigued to see that and also whether they do expand into retailer. While the strategy to launch here was obviously fuelled off the back of Appetite or searches on their website, I would be surprised if they weren't simultaneously having retailer discussions based on the publicity, the website traffic that they've garnered since launching.

18:07Mads:So Mads and I will actually be giving our own predictions at the end of this episode on where we think Merit and Withgene will be going next. But first, you'll hear from today's sponsor, and then we'll get into our segment about Withgene.

18:28Mads:now moving on to our second brand we cannot stop talking about with jean i would argue they're one of the most prominent brands on social media and particularly amongst a gen z audience and total contrast total contrast from what we just spoke about with merit which is great because i feel like we're hitting different ends of the spectrum but what i love it most about with jean they're From our own backyard. We love homegrown.

18:50Rhi:Homegrown. I am so patriotic when I go overseas about Australian brands. And let me tell you, when I was in New York, this brand was being spoken about so much. And I felt an immense amount of pride. I was like, go off Aussie girls.

19:05Mads:Yeah, I'm the same. There are a few Australian brands that are really dominating the US and With Jean is absolutely one of them. We actually have some really, really strong quotes from the founder to support that they're doing well over there, but we'll get into that a bit later. But I want to kick off first with a really interesting insight that we came across when researching for this episode. So with Jean Founders actually shared with Vogue in 2024, the moment Emily Radzikowski and Dua Lipa were papped wearing their viral rose top, I feel like I don't even need to explain what that top looks like.

19:33Mads:Everyone knows what it is. But we will put a link in the show notes if you don't. So once they were papped wearing this viral rose top, it directly resulted in over 10 ,000 tops being sold. That is insane to me. Do you want to break down the math of how many dollars that was? So quick maths, the top retails currently for 149 AUD. So a total of 1.4 million plus revenue was generated from a single top being sold. That is extraordinary. I did see both founders speak to Vogue and they said, seeing those girls in our pieces is incredibly exciting and so nice to see such influential figures embrace our brand.

20:13Mads:Celebrity exposure like this definitely helps elevate the brand's profile and reach a broader audience. I think that just gives you really good context.

20:20Rhi:I have a feeling both Emily Ratajkowski and Jewel Eber have a discount code for life.

20:25Mads:God, you would hope so.

20:27Rhi:Gifting 100 free.

20:28Mads:Yes. I also just want to be really clear as well, when I'm speaking about revenue, that's not profit. So they obviously had to go in and pay their salaries, shipping, all of the - The cost of the product. costs of the product, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, as a standard revenue figure, that is super impressive. We were actually lucky enough to speak to one of the founders, Sammy Lockingtoner, to provide us with some context supporting how much the celebrity endorsement, but also people just wearing their product in general on social media was essential in their social media strategy and for the brand to be successful.

21:00Mads:So Sammy said, we live in a content-driven world. Consumers rely on seeing your product on someone else before committing to a purchase. That is something we recognize from the very beginning and still believe in to this day. You've just said earlier on in the piece that you feel like you saw this brand everywhere in the US. Was it mostly content creators or people in real life?

21:20Rhi:It was definitely in real life. And I had the pleasure of hanging out with a lot of Aussies who I guess have built profiles over there now, probably more so in the brand founder space rather than creators. But I feel like brand founders are the new content creators now. So they kind of go hand in hand. but a lot of us were just saying how it was popping off. They'd opened their Soho flagship, which I know we're going to talk about that, but it was very much this was the it girl and Americans are looking to Australians for what's cool. Like even going on TikTok and reading some of the comment sections, it is very much like what makeup are we using?

21:55Rhi:How are we doing our hair? Who are we wearing? What are we wearing? UK and US are looking to us, which is a very different thing versus what has previously been. But it was definitely Aussies saying that their American friends and communities were like, you guys, with Jean, and St. Agnew was the other that were like, those two brands are popping off here.

22:14Mads:Yeah, that's really interesting. I always find it fascinating when you have someone like a really famous celebrity like Emily Rajkowski or Dua Lipa wear a top and people think, oh, that viral moment is the thing that made this brand successful. But what I found really interesting in the research with Jean is that social media has been an integral part of their strategy for a very long time. But even before Emily Rajkowski and Dua Lipa wore the viral rose top, things were voting really well for the label from the very beginning. And the reason for that is their social strategy and their ability to understand their customer.

22:47Mads:So they actually launched with Jean in July 2017 with a collection of nine styles. They had a wait list of over 1 ,000 customers. So there was definitely appetite and a pre-existing audience that they were able to build early on. That direct to consumer strategy was really strong. Sammy also added some context about how that social strategy has shifted. Because if we're being honest, you know, back then that was really an anomaly and they were building their relationship with their customers online. No one was doing that. They were one of the only brands that were really doing that. I would, one that comes top of mind is triangle, swimwear as well in that timeline.

23:25Mads:Nowadays, everyone is doing it as we've just spoken about Merit's doing as well. So Sammy also added some interesting color about how their social strategy has shifted. Sammy said to us, the way we approach it has definitely evolved. I'm still a control freak over our Instagram. I post everything myself still to this day, but now the standard for content is on another level to what it was in 2017. These days, we're thinking about the entire journey from someone discovering us on Instagram or TikTok to walking into a store to the unboxing moment. We've added layers with storytelling, campaigns, retail, events, and partnerships, but that direct connection with our audience is still at the heart of it.

23:59Mads:So it's really interesting that social still plays such an important role. I feel like my main takeout from that is that it is still really prominent and rightfully so. At the time of recording, they have just over 600 ,000 followers and a huge portion of their following is in fact, Jen said. I do want to build on this with my own insight. I know I spoke about this in the previous episode, but we work with Starburst Insights across all of the shameless media consumer insight studies that we do. So Starburst recently shared their style shift research study. So this was an independent study that they conducted.

24:30Mads:And one of the key stats I took from this was Gen Z are 42 % more likely to impulse buy after seeing something on social media compared to other generations. And in conjunction, 85 % of those who were surveyed agreed that price and value mattered most when online shopping. So when you consider what we know about WithJeans, it girl brand positioning amongst Gen Z and what Sammy, their founder, has shared with us, paired with these industry insights, it seems like they've created the perfect storm, but with a positive twist.

25:01Rhi:Totally. And you can see this as a consumer. I look at their content and their price point does not match their content. Their content is super elevated. It's really aspirational. It speaks definitely to a Gen Z as someone who is, I'm what some might call a cuspy. So I think I'm like a year off being a Gen Z, but like very much identifying the millennial space. But it feels very Gen Z, but it is super elevated. The photography style of all of their campaign and, you know, EDM imagery is very much in the vein of like a James Harvey Kelly P. Johnson. Like it's super elevated and you're looking at a$99 top.

25:40Mads:It's also the locations of where they're shooting. They're very Europe-centric. They're shooting in Majorca, Ibiza, even in New York itself, the pockets of New York that they're shooting in are very aspirational. So I think they've been very considered about the look and feel that they're trying to perpetuate on social media and how that product is positioned. I would say that it is a holiday skewed product in some ways. I feel like what's interesting now in social media, they're straddling two worlds, the European holiday vacay look, but then they're also straddling the weekend, nice jeans and a top combination.

26:15Mads:You're hitting the town with your girlfriends. You're having a drink. You know, it's taking you all the way through the night. That sort of not party girl-esque vein, but it's got a little bit of party girl in it. It's a bit bar.

26:27Rhi:It's the girls going to the bar, not the club. She's going to the bar. She's going to the bar. Bar or the pub. What I love about it as well and what is really challenging for a lot of international brands is how do you do dual market? They're homegrown here in Australia. Right now we're in the depths of winter and they're cracking the US market in a really big way who are in the depths of summer. And their content is very clever for playing into that European summer because you play into the Aussies on Eurovacay and you play into the fact that it is middle of summer for the US, which is the market they are absolutely going after.

27:01Rhi:and it is a lot cheaper to go to Europe from the US than it is from Australia. So, you know, those in the US are doing it too.

27:13Mads:They have also opened up their first flagship store in Soho, which is no small feat.

27:19Rhi:No small feat. And what I find so brilliant about this is it is very much a positioning piece. There are a lot of brands that will open a flagship in a space like Soho where they will be lucky to break even. It is like a marketing exercise just to have a brand presence and really, you know, stamp your passport to say we are here and we're global and international now. So I would be very surprised if that store was making them bulk cash because the rent in Soho is arguably one of the most expensive pieces of retail rent in the world. But what it says is we are here and we have arrived in the US in a really big way.

27:58Rhi:And we're inviting our US customer to come in and explore our brand.

28:02Mads:Well, that's it, right? It is a great way to deepen that connection with a US customer and give them an experience with the brand that you actually cannot get online. In-store retail experience, I do think he's having a comeback and people are looking for that really tangible touch, feel. You know, even the store itself and how much people are investing in the look and feel and the design. People want that experience firsthand. Sammy also told us that opening the flagship store in Soho wasn't about entering the US market. It was about deepening a relationship that was already well established online.

28:36Mads:So again, it comes back to that point about we are already here. We've been connecting with this consumer. We've been listening to them. We've been able to have that connection through social media. Now we're just elevating that and giving them more so that they can deepen it. I think it's very impressive.

28:50Rhi:It's so impressive. And remember as well, a store now is a content studio. It is a space for customers to come and create their own content. It's a space for the brand to create content from. It is genius marketing. And I will forever be a fan of a brick and mortar retailer. Like, hello, we've just seen the Mecca that has opened. Like the proof is in the pudding. Customers still love to go in-store and discover, shop and play. Rhi, we have no shame about making predictions or unsolicited recommendations to brands. Usually it's just while we're in the car driving somewhere. But what would be your predictions for With Jean?

29:31Mads:For With Jean, there is one prediction that feels quite obvious to me, given that they're really committed to this straddling the two markets, the Euro summer vibes and the US. I think there is scope for them to be doing a pop-up of some sort in a holiday destination. Now, this is not a new concept. This is something that a lot of luxury brands have been doing for a very long time. This past European summer, we've had Chacmousse pop up in the south of France. We've had, you know, Chacmousse also pop up in Ibiza, Chanel, Dior, all of these brands have been popping up in Europe and really investing in this immersive experience.

30:10Mads:What's interesting though, is it's not just reserved for the luxury brands and it is starting the trickle down into the more accessible brands. We've seen Venroy pop up in Capri. You know, I could really see with Jean following a similar sort of suit and having a presence in that market, particularly Italy or Mallorca in Spain, where a lot of young consumers are traveling to these areas.

30:30Rhi:I could also see them doing the Hamptons if they wanted to stay in the US. That could be super cute.

30:36Mads:Yes. Venroy's also done the Hamptons and Venroy's also had a pop up

30:40Rhi:in Soho. So that's an interesting... I wonder if With Jean are maybe just following along closely. I mean, it's a good blueprint to be following. Potentially.

30:49Mads:I also think, as you said, it's a branding opportunity, the content that they can capture in these markets and how they can, you know, really leverage that aesthetic. One thing I do want to flag with With Jean is a lot of that aesthetic and it girl imagery is tied to a thinner woman. You know, we're seeing a certain type of body shape appear in a lot of their content. And that is also reflected in their size range. Their size range only goes up to an XL, which according to WithJean's size chart displayed on their website converts to an Australian size 14. Listen, there is a lot of variation in sizing, but traditionally in Australia, an XL would more likely be a 16.

31:23Mads:It will be interesting if they're committed to this US expansion, how they could potentially change as well and introduce more sizes. I would like to see more size diversity in their product range, but time will tell. Mads, what's your prediction?

31:37Rhi:I wouldn't be surprised as well if we saw a little bit of a collaboration for them with like a pretty big name because it does feel like they've seen the power of that celebrity status but I would be more inclined to think that it would be a large-scale creator rather than a large-scale celebrity.

31:53Mads:Yeah and that strategy works really well. I can't remember what the brand is. Frankie's with Kylie Jenner. Yes. So Frankie's the bikini brand that Kylie Jenner and also Gigi Hadid. And Bella Hadid. Yes they've all done it.

32:05Rhi:They're like, let's get the sisters and the most famous of the Jenners. Sorry, Kendall.

32:12Mads:I could definitely see that working for them. Similar audience as well. Frankie's is also huge in the US, so that could definitely bode well for them. All right, let's move on to merit. Mads, what is your merit prediction?

32:23Rhi:Yeah, so before I get into my prediction, one thing I do want to call out is that we did also get some quotes from merit CMO, Isla who, you know what, Isla, if you're listening, God, you do a good job. Well done, girl. You are earning every cent. But we have this great quote from her and bear with me while I read it. But Isla said, one of the things we talk about is the idea of if we removed our logo from a product or campaign, we want people to still know its merit. That has driven us to build the world of merit, which includes our products, but also visual identity, tone of voice, the way we show up as a brand, we want the strong brand identity to show up no matter what country you find us in.

33:02Rhi:So while specific tactics might shift in different regions, the core of the brand is quite universal. Focusing on the core pillars of the brand while also taking the time to understand the certain nuances in different markets is pivotal to our global expansion and success.

33:18Mads:I mean, bang, bang, bang. You've spoken about this the entire episode, that localization piece and how important that is.

33:25Rhi:It's layering that with the universality of the brand and universe you are creating for it. So I loved that quote from her. For me, my predictions for them, I have a couple. One is much like with Jean, I'm a big fan of pop-up and experiential retail. While I think they've done such a great job with the press and creator community, I would love to see them capture some of that customer community. So Merit, I've actually come up with a concept for you. You're welcome. but it was like a little mornings with merit. If your whole concept is this under five minute makeup, no makeup, makeup, have little coffee carts darted in major cities where there's chairs on hand for people to come in, get their little morning touch up, grab a little merit coffee, have the brand available to shop, create a little world of merit that customers can go in and explore.

34:15Rhi:That is only if you're not willing to go into retail. Yeah.

34:19Mads:I think the location is critical as well for where you have these pop-ups to take it to that next level of, you know, kind of putting your money where your mouth is and how you want the consumer to experience that product, that five minute get ready. If they focus on more CBD high street areas as well, where people are coming into that commute space, I feel like that would be really cool. Feels a bit more on brand for them. On brand, on the way to work.

34:40Rhi:I would love that. And Summer Fridays did a pop-up at the beginning of this year at Bondi. That's fantastic. It's so on brand for them. If Merit did Bondi Beach, I don't think it's on brand. Unpopular opinion, I'm done with Bondi Beach. Yes, same. And I do not want to see another AI floating device over Bondi Beach ever again. I'm saying it. I'm sorry to every brand who's done it. I'm sure it was great at the time, but I don't want to see any more of them. I've had enough now. We're done. That's my hot take. But I would be very surprised if we did not see Merit in a retailer in the next 18 to 24 months.

35:17Rhi:And if Merit came to me as a consultant and asked me for my humble opinion, I would tell them that Mecca is the retailer for them. I don't think anyone would argue with that. Yeah, I think Sephora is not right for them. My view is Sephora are doing a really great job in colour cosmetics right now with that Gen Z customer. I think with Rare, Fenty, with Patrick Tarr, it's not to say they're not capturing the millennial. I just think they're bringing in a strong Gen Z. Where I think Mecca have the heartland is in the millennial customer. And I I think Merit would swim perfectly in that ocean as a lower alternative to brands like Westman Atelier that maybe people are needing to do a little bit more high-low in the current economic climate.

35:56Rhi:I think it's a great brand for customers who might be growing up and wanting something a little bit more sophisticated to be pulling out of their bag for, you know, the lacks of something like a Charlotte Tilbury to be moving into a Merit. I think Merit would be right at home within Mecca.

36:10Mads:It's also about the location of the stores. focus more on those high street areas, you know, your high street, Armidale, James Street in Brisbane. You're generally, in my opinion, getting a very personalized experience. But I would say that a lot of the customers that are going through there are generally that older demographic as well, where they're really seeking out that expertise and that one-on-one experience that they can get with no distractions and feeling like they're very immersed in a brand. I think that would be a great opportunity for Merit.

36:36Rhi:Yeah, I agree. That guidance is totally necessary. And then my last recommendation for you, Merrick, God, I'm working for free at this rate, is I think a partnership with a local brand that has an international presence would be what I would call a double bullseye. So for me, it would be St. Agni. I think St. Agni is a brand that has a later Gen Z but is very much a millennial heartland. It's aspirational. It's global scale now. Big presence in the US but very much still homegrown brand. I think that would be a perfect brand for them to be aligning with when they're doing a show or a campaign or just an Agni design one of the bags that they do for a limited collection.

37:17Rhi:Like there's ways that they can cross over while winning in the US and also, you know, winning here in the AU market.

37:23Mads:There's some great ideas, Mads. You need to invoice.

37:26Rhi:Merit, I'll let you know where to bill.

37:29Mads:All right, guys. And that's all for our fortnightly episode of Stylish focusing on brand and marketing. Thank you so much for joining us. And, of course, thank you, Mads.

37:38Rhi:Thanks, Bray. Thanks for tag-teaming this one. We've spent a lot of time talking about these two brands. A lot. A lot. And we're both consumers of them. You wore with Jean to your hands. I did, yes. And I've got a Merit blush on right now.

37:52Mads:I mean, you have to experience the brand firsthand to be able to have this many opinions about it.

37:57Rhi:If you've got any more brands you want us to cover or you have any other ideas, we do love hearing from you. so please do feel free to drop us an email anytime at style-ish at shamelessmedia.com.au. If you can't be bothered emailing, you can also slide into our DMs over at stylishpod. And we also can't forget to thank our lovely Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and our senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke.

38:22Mads:We'll be back with you in a fortnight. See you guys. Bye. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.