Dr. Amy Shah: The 30-30-3 Hormone Reset & The Forgotten Science of Women's Health

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16:00Darin Olien:yeah because you have you have like this i saw like the this 30-30-3 principle and yeah and and again focused on this higher fiber yes kind of idea to support prebiotics and everything else to understand this that you know we're getting more and more information about it but it's still from a legacy perspective it's still like we're still completely oblivious to it and i you travel a lot in the world so you'll probably appreciate this but before we were so industrialized and

16:37Dr. Amy Shah:people who still live in kind of the more hunter-gatherer way traditional ways they have 50 % more gut bacteria than we do and it's crazy because gut bacteria do a lot more than just help with digestion it's like our mood and our hormones and our immune system and it's really so clearly everything we're doing or so many things we're doing are just wrong yeah yeah and it's and so

17:03Darin Olien:you were getting all these people reaching out this population of women yes reaching out lost

17:11Dr. Amy Shah:confused what do i do is needing support they've never heard a doctor give them information about how to manage their bodies in this time uh they don't have nutritional guidance it's like um lose weight take vitamin d and exercise um and it was like that's like the common thing that people get and the rest is in your head yeah and so you're like okay wait okay lose weight um or uh you know exercise what does that all what does that even mean like it's like so that's basically the limit of what you get when you go to a practitioner i mean obviously there are people that are so talented or who are really taking time with women.

17:56Dr. Amy Shah:But like I would say, I think at the numbers, like 75 % of women feel like they needed, they wanted more support around that nutritional lifestyle strategies. And for me, I looked into the nutrition guidelines for menopause and perimenopause and found none. There's zero.

18:16Darin Olien:No guidelines.

18:17Dr. Amy Shah:No guidelines. Really? like you know supplements that could help hormone therapy that could help but like really good luck yeah nutrition like eat healthy you know like but like that obviously one doesn't work and two what is like even for someone who wants to eat healthy like what what are the things that you are supposed to eat when you're in this uh you know hormonal change um so that's why i kind of took some of the studies or all of the studies that I could find and was thinking to myself, what is like, if I had to reduce this down to like something super easy that a very overwhelmed or high achieving person or someone who's, you know, has three kids is like driving, you know, working two jobs, what could they aim for that could be doable that could actually transform their health?

19:09Dr. Amy Shah:And that's how, that's how that 3033 came about.

19:11Darin Olien:So what, what were some of those

19:13Dr. Amy Shah:obvious through lines okay obvious through lines where that fiber is um missing in the american diet uh 95 percent of americans don't get adequate fiber so it's not like you know and then um most of them are eating between 12 and 15 grams of fiber when you're supposed to have 25 to 30 so they're getting not only are they not getting enough they're getting less than half of enough and we know that for every five grams of fiber you add to the typical american diet you can extend their life by seven to ten percent so it's like little changes to your life could actually change your life and our gut bacteria are going down in women in menopause and perimenopause because as your hormone levels change some of those bacteria depend on hormones and so they die off So you already have kind of a fraction of what you had before.

20:12Dr. Amy Shah:So not only are you, you know, if you're eating an American diet or something like that, you're already low on bacteria and then you're going through this phase and you're losing more. So my goal was like, what do I say? What can we give people that can actually get their gut bacteria healthier and working, talking to the hormones, talking to the brain, talking to the immune system and fibers, their food.

20:35Darin Olien:yeah and it's and it's so you know it's so interesting because protein's so dominant and

20:41Dr. Amy Shah:of course there's a there's a part of yeah you know hormones we need yeah yeah some of the hormones

20:46Darin Olien:we need amino acids all that stuff some of them we need cholesterol it's yeah but the it's the fiber thing doesn't stick because it's so unsexy yes their pr is horrible for fiber it's horrible but it's such a hormone axis, brain axis. Yes. Like you said, overall lifestyle support, disease prevention, longevity. And it's as easy as like, okay, most of your calories and diversity of plants and fruits and nuts and seeds.

21:21Dr. Amy Shah:And it's not, that's what I'm saying. Like it's not, so one tablespoon of chia seeds is that five grams of fiber that would get you the 7 % to 10 % longevity boost, right? So it's not so hard. People don't even realize, I think even for me, I didn't realize how easy it would be to get fiber if you understand that it's in chia seeds, like you get five grams from a tablespoon, that it's in blueberries and raspberries. Raspberries are like eight grams for a serving. So pears are like six grams. Avocado. So there's normal things, not exotic things that you can buy that ingest and that are enjoyable foods that actually can get you up there really fast.

22:05Dr. Amy Shah:And so if you just kind of add that all up, getting 30 is not that hard.

22:09Darin Olien:Right. Yeah, because it's not only the amount, but it's the diversity. It's insoluble and soluble. It's consistency. yes it's all of that stuff because it's like people you know the the the fiber thing and the prebiotics probiotics it's food for your yeah your your gut essentially and and if you're always eating the same what is the average maybe 30 different types of foods per person yeah that was eat the same thing yeah so it's it's so you're also coming to this world of habits yes right your habits are health or habits are not health and and so how do you find when you're working one-on-one with people say hey listen you gotta change a few of these things it's really hard yeah i mean okay

23:01Dr. Amy Shah:so the third part of the 3033 it's the hardest because the three stands for three fermented foods every day and every day if you think about three servings three servings yeah okay so if you think about it, 95 % of Americans don't get enough fiber, but like 100%, no, 99 % don't get enough fermented foods. Fermented foods is the one thing that can lower inflammation in your body, add bacteria to that gut microbiome. And every single culture in the entire world has fermented foods embedded in it because that was the only way we could preserve food before. It was almost like, it's like the intelligence, our body needed those ferments to thrive and we've really lost that um except for you know yogurt's pretty common i would say still as a fermented yeah but like most people are not consuming that on a regular basis yeah

23:56Darin Olien:or they're consuming it's it's not a good quality or it's the yogurt that's like been

24:02Dr. Amy Shah:heated and has like m &ms on it and there's no probiotics left so there's like that's that's yogurt considered yogurt you know but no it's not really probiotic anymore yeah because i know i i

24:14Darin Olien:know there's sometimes i'll go hit and miss with with different ferments but god when i eat it i'm

24:20Dr. Amy Shah:just i can feel it's like oh my god this is so good 100 i even said i was like my biggest issue when traveling is like really finding good fermented foods because you can't travel with you can't travel with yogurt you can't travel with kata cheese you can't travel with kimchi it's like you know it's really hard um if you're on the go in america like when you go to europe or even asia getting fermented foods not so hard it's available like in the store like there's um like cultured yogurt drinks everywhere you go in europe um especially um in eastern europe but here it's actually pretty hard unless you go to like a a nice grocery store one of those like natural grocery stores that's when you can get more fermented things do you do you think that

25:05Darin Olien:people could just make their own yeah of course yeah it's so yeah it's so and i guess like one of

25:13Dr. Amy Shah:the nice things about the popularity of kombucha is that that's also available everywhere you just have to watch the sugar right right there yeah i'm surprised sometimes when i'm in the middle

25:22Darin Olien:of nowhere yeah do you have kombucha like matter of fact yeah on top yeah yeah it's become very popular so that's a nice fermented yeah and that's you know it's it's this whole thing of like our modern world has created this world and if we don't kind of step in yeah be a little proactive that's right then we're just kind of a victim of this thing that we were born into and the problem for me the way i think about it is that nobody that's creating these products or like creating

25:53Dr. Amy Shah:these technologies understands what it's doing to our bodies like if we actually spread the message of like, hey, we need to be doing things that actually increase the number of bacteria in our bodies. Like maybe there would be smart people who would actually work on that. But like everything we've done so far, even like, you know, all the technologies are kind of moving us away from what we know can like heal us. And so it's really tough. You have to kind of go against the grain at this point.

26:23Darin Olien:100%.

26:24Dr. Amy Shah:I mean, like circadian rhythms is another thing, right? That's a big one. Yeah.

26:28Darin Olien:Every cell.

26:29Dr. Amy Shah:Every cell. Every cell. All 80 % of our body's processes need circadian input.

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29:07Darin Olien:Yes.

29:08Dr. Amy Shah:Modern technology makes it 24-7 everything. Lights, food. And we are not supposed to be. Our genes are encoded to turn down a lot of processes like digestion, taking in sugar, brain. All of that stuff is supposed to be on a light and dark cycle. And so when we are messing that up, then we get insulin resistance. We get a higher risk of all kinds of diseases, including cancer. um, heart disease. So one of the biggest things I say in the book that I, I really believe in is that one quick, the quickest non nutritional, you don't have to go to the store quickest way to kind of help yourself and your hormones and your energy levels is to just get some morning sunlight.

30:04Dr. Amy Shah:And even if it's not sunny, cause I get a lot of messages of like, I live in like, blah blah it's like yeah yeah it's snowy hasn't there's been no sun for like you know and i'm i get it um it doesn't have to be sunny it just has to be daylight and even if you're in a place that doesn't have daylight you know northern hemisphere or some certain times of the year you can get a light like a happy light spectrum light yeah yeah 10 000 lux yeah which you can mimic light so it's the quickest way you have uh receptors in your retina that goes to straight into your suprachiasmatic nucleus in your brain um when you look at light and they get inputs right away send it to every single one of our um circadian centers clocks all over our body and we get better hormones you get better mood get a boost i mean you can see kind of an instant boost yeah in people's brain health

31:00Darin Olien:and mood i mean it's a it's a natural thing when you feel like when you have that light come in you naturally get a boost of from your adrenals yeah to kind of wake you up yeah normal right and then and then the cascade effect and then these are set and then at night you know then that pineal and the and the what's the hormone uh melatonin so so all of that starts to kick in but But, you know, that's the thing. It's like we have been into this hacking world so much. And thank God there's some stuff that's good. Yeah. But it's kind of funny in one respect because, you know, when the latest biohacker says, get morning light.

31:48Darin Olien:It's true.

31:49Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah.

31:50Darin Olien:But it's also like we're realizing that the modern world has a bunch of issues.

31:56Dr. Amy Shah:Yes.

31:56Darin Olien:that we become a victim to yes and and that you can actually set this and and then consistency is the key yeah right so in terms of like um so those are some easy ones and then like turn off your light like try to keep the lights low at night so and then the other thing is like

32:19Dr. Amy Shah:don't eat right before bed when you can so when you're you know i get it we all live in this hustle culture world you have you know um you know times where you're gonna have to eat late but people who eat um to like right before they go to bed they just have poor sleep poor insulin sensitivity um people like you know before uber eats and delivery you couldn't get like full meals um heavy meals uh late at night and our bodies are not equipped to be doing that what do you think when you see um do you think that there's a there's a kind of a lack of preparation

33:03Darin Olien:for people to get their calories when when the hormones are kind of set to do that you know meaning that in the morning and then the hormone shift starts to go down i think around two o 'clock and it really starts to dive and then if you haven't eaten enough food then you're gonna be hungry so then you you eat so many your calories when you're hormonal and your rhythm your circadian rhythm is you're you're actually consuming a lot more in a time that's not so ideal yeah the data

33:33Dr. Amy Shah:that's coming out about a few studies have come out about omad like one meal a day um whether it's on purpose or um just because of out of necessity um they just have poor outcomes like Like eating one meal a day late in the day, very late in the day, is really correlated with poor outcomes. Now, could you say, hey, I'm eating late in the day, but it's like super clean and healthy? You know, it's hard to know because most of these studies are mixed of people who are just skipping a lot of meals. But yeah, that circadian timing of meals is so important. Yeah.

34:12Darin Olien:And in terms of what you're seeing with perimenopause and menopause, how is that showing up in terms of eating patterns for them? What are you seeing the most dramatic?

34:27Dr. Amy Shah:Okay. So one thing that happens during perimenopause is your cortisol goes up and your ability to buffer cortisol.

34:35Darin Olien:Naturally. That just happens. Yeah.

34:38Dr. Amy Shah:And your ability to buffer it goes down. So estrogen has a lot to, estrogen and progesterone have a lot to do with our cortisol, um, system. And so when you're going through this transition where estrogen and progesterone are like cycling down, um, you're going to have issues with cortisol. A lot of people will. And so the same things that did not stress you when you were 20, um, will stress you when you're in your forties or fifties or even thirties. Um, and so that goes for exercise that goes for fasting, um, that goes for, um, really scheduling just any kind of stress that you have. So our lives are incredibly stressful in the modern world and we don't get enough recovery from the stress and we don't have enough tools to let off that stress.

35:29Dr. Amy Shah:And so what ends up happening is you go into this phase of life and all of a sudden your stressful life just becomes like unbearable. Um, and the things that you used to be able to do, like skip meals all day, you know, become very counterproductive for you. Um, for me, like a great example was, um, I would, I would go to this early morning, like a high intensity workout every single day without any breaks. And I would skimp on sleep because I I thought, oh my God, to be a high powered woman. Like I was a doctor and I was like, I was like, I can't sleep. Like I'm not allowed to sleep because that's not, you know, that means that you're not working hard enough.

36:08Dr. Amy Shah:And so I would skip, skimp on sleep. I would go to this crazy workout. I would drink a ton of coffee. Then I would go to work and I'd have no food with me. So I'd be like starving, you know, and trying to like look at the back room for, and so many of the people I talked to have a version of this and it used to work for them. That's how they kind of got through their teens and twenties. and they, you know, like they didn't need a reset. They didn't need recovery like that. And so I think that's what happened. That's a big change that happens during this time. One of the many big changes. And so I think that one really affects people because I think I talk to people like, you're like an athlete, you're a high performer.

36:48Dr. Amy Shah:You need recovery just as much as you need to be going. And I think that's really hard to do in our modern world because recovery to people feels lazy.

37:01Darin Olien:Totally. It's not the program.

37:03Dr. Amy Shah:It's not the program. Going for a walk outside is like, you know, when I tell people to do that, like I'll tell women, like one big thing you can do is like start going for outdoor walks because it kind of is a low cortisol exercise. And being in nature, being in sunlight just brings down your cortisol, makes you feel better, helps your circadian rhythms and you get movement in. And they're like, really? Like that's like feel so kind of like indulgent almost like makes you. So it's like simple things like that that people can do. So part of the issue, Darren, is understanding that this is even happening.

37:40Dr. Amy Shah:Like explaining to women like this is happening. You might be feeling more stressed. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like I'm feeling more stressed. You know, knowing that that's happening is also a really big part of this.

37:51Darin Olien:Yeah, that's a that's got to feel a strange like, you know, as you've had an operating system the whole time and all of a sudden you're 42 or whatever it is and just changes yeah so what are some signals you think that women can catch yeah so they don't feel like i'm this is what's going on and feel siloed yeah it's my issue yeah but in fact it's probably a bigger thing yeah

38:17Dr. Amy Shah:it's going on um yeah that's it's such a good question because i think most people are like am I just tired or is this perimenopause? And so I think the big thing to know is perimenopause is not diagnosed by a lab test. And so you might think, oh gosh, I want to just check my hormones, but it's actually not diagnosed that way. It's diagnosed by symptoms. Really?

38:42Darin Olien:So will you see any symptoms when you're in perimenopause? Will you see the

38:47Dr. Amy Shah:changes in the hormones so our so the way we look at labs is it's basically if it's completely off the charts you'll see it right um so if it's zero you'll see it um so when you're in menopause you'll have zero estrogen you know like or very little estrogen that's how you know um and there's some other signs that just tell that progesterone also yes progesterone and estrogen um and testosterone goes down too uh but it's not zero like it um goes down with um because the ovaries are the big producers of estrogen progesterone so um one of the things i'll say is like yes you should get your labs done but don't expect your hormone labs to show anything so you should get your vitamin d checked or cholesterol checked like make sure there's not other things like iron levels that are making you tired and like you know listless and have trouble sleeping.

39:39Dr. Amy Shah:Um, because all of those things, like 80 % of women in perimenopause also have vitamin D deficiency also have, you know, up to 40 % have iron deficiency, you know? So getting those things fixed is very important. Um, but knowing that just cause your hormones, um, you don't need to like have an abnormal hormone test to be in perimenopause. Perimenopause is just, they're starting to trend down and our assays for hormones right now are just so broad it's hard to know these subtle changes that are happening so it's really by symptoms so you'll feel tired number one symptom sleep issues that's like you know 70 plus percent of people feel sleep issues change in the fat distribution in your body so more fat around the midsection definitely weight gain is something that women often experience stuff like frozen shoulder itchy ears like then this all like there's a lot of weird things too because our joints have estrogen receptors and so carpal tunnel shoulder um that can all goes back to your mom yes exactly so that can all be from um the changes in the hormones as well um anxiety palpitations um mood changes are definitely um that and then hot flashes and night sweats that kind of happens a little bit later in the in the continuum and really the issue is is that the brain and the rest of the body is just getting used to or starting to realize that they're not getting the hormonal support so even the brain the brain fog that people feel is because there's estrogen receptors in the brain and they're not getting as much estrogen.

41:27Dr. Amy Shah:And so it's kind of adjusting to this new normal, and that can cause a lot of fogginess, memory loss, mood changes, et cetera.

41:36Darin Olien:But from a nutritional standpoint, you can curb a lot. It doesn't have to be such a swing.

41:42Dr. Amy Shah:That's right. Because in our gut, we have a bunch of bacteria. It always goes back to the gut. We have a bunch of bacteria that actually help put estrogen back into the circulation or take out the excess if we have too much.

41:56Darin Olien:Do they kick in more or they've always been there?

41:59Dr. Amy Shah:They've always been there. It's called the estrobilome and they're really key in our hormone balance. As are just the rest of our gut, our gut is constantly telling our hormones what to do. But what happens during this time is that some of those bacteria are estrogen dependent too. So there is a change in your gut microbiome. And so that's why I talk so much about nutrition to try to build that microbiome up because it's literally the, it's like the captain that's kind of calling all the shots. And so you want as much of that army that you can have. So that's why that 3033 includes five. So it's protein, fiber, and probiotic foods.

42:46Darin Olien:So 30 protein.

42:47Dr. Amy Shah:30 protein in the morning early in the day

42:50Darin Olien:early in the day

42:51Dr. Amy Shah:and then 30 fiber throughout the day and 3 servings probiotic foods

42:57Darin Olien:which it seems like if people are feeling this seems to me like they should shift

43:02Dr. Amy Shah:yeah just do it

43:04Darin Olien:their nutrition like straight away

43:05Dr. Amy Shah:and guess what like I think what's really exciting to me is like our gut bacteria change within 3 days right so it doesn't have to be it's not like months that you'd have to do this So if you feel like you're in this like realm of your life, maybe you have some of the symptoms, but you're not sure and your labs all came out fine. This is a sign that you should just change things in your diet and lifestyle and start to see how you feel. For me, it was like, I almost felt like I wasn't in perimenopause anymore. You know, like it was like, you basically, once you start doing the things that your body actually needs, so many of the things that, you know we suffer with go away so for example the brain fog example that i was giving you if you're getting adequate sleep and getting a lot of sunlight during the day and you're moving your body all of a sudden yes you have brain fog but now you have all this uh all these new neural connections happening you're opening up things you're getting circadian input and so a lot of that gets better or even goes away so you have to give yourself different inputs you have to Inputs equal the outputs, right?

44:13Dr. Amy Shah:Like if you input terrible food and terrible alcohol and terrible thoughts in the people around you, you basically output that.

44:23Darin Olien:I can't imagine the shift in that scenario. And that's going to be a lot of people.

44:29Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah, here's the thing. Men have menopause too. There is menopause. But menopause is a lot gentler of a hill, downhill, than menopause. When does that kick in? So usually around the same time, around 50. So menopause average age is 51. But women have this huge perimenopausal time that is like 10 years prior. For men, it's kind of a gradual decrease over time. That happens, starts in their 40s, but mostly in the 50s.

45:02Darin Olien:Because it's mainly because of the estrogen and the progesterone. For women, yeah.

45:07Dr. Amy Shah:And testosterone is for men. Yeah. But women have actually more testosterone than they have estrogen, by the way. Like testosterone is much more. Yeah. Oh, wow. It's actually, people always think of like estrogen and progesterone as a women hormones and men is testosterone. But we actually have more testosterone than we have estrogen and progesterone because it's a very dominant hormone. Right. But like, so men.

45:32Darin Olien:Where does that go? When you, what, what, does that, that you said earlier is false. False, yeah.

45:37Dr. Amy Shah:So like men will feel just the testosterone going down or the, you know, their, you know, age related changes and, um, muscle mass decreasing or bone mass decreasing. Women have more of like a free fall, like a very quick, um, change that happens. And so they feel it a little more dramatically. And, um, estrogen and progesterone have so many roles in our body as testosterone, but when they start to kind of falter, you get a whole huge constellation of symptoms.

46:12Darin Olien:Wow, yeah. I mean, from a men's perspective, I've got a nickel for every time I've heard someone going on peptides or TRT. It's just crazy.

46:22Dr. Amy Shah:I mean, here's the thing. If somebody asks you, and somebody asks me this, are you tired? And I'm like, what do you mean, are you tired? Like, what does that mean? And she's like, could you have more energy? And I'm like, could I have more energy? Like, yeah. And that's like the questions that they ask at these clinics. It's like, who doesn't want more energy? Like, if you ask it in that way, right? Right. Exactly. So I think that's why it's become so, like, kind of.

46:48Darin Olien:Well, yeah, then it's pushed that way. Yeah. It's like, oh, you're going to feel amazing.

46:52Dr. Amy Shah:And then no side effects are kind of clarified. And so you end up.

46:58Darin Olien:And then also not dealing with the things that you're also dealing with here. Yeah. the foundational things that you can support and make. Unfortunately, this world creates this, this, you know, go around all the time. You don't deal with the main things and you try to get the shortcuts. But there's always consequences to that.

47:17Dr. Amy Shah:There's always consequences. And the thing is, it's like even if you get on hormones, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone for women, testosterone for men, a lot of people don't feel better because they're not doing all the other things the foundational things so it's like even if you do choose to go that route peptides you know testosterone whatever and for women hormone therapy can be really helpful but a lot of times it won't work until you actually do the the foundational things so that

47:46Darin Olien:it can start working for you right and that's the responsible approach yeah exactly that's the medical professionals response you know like let's let's lay this out like what you're doing and lay this out and go, hey, take care of all of these. A lot of those things will change. So you do think in some cases, some hormone replacement for women could be beneficial?

48:09Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah. I mean, it's been proven for like three conditions for sure. And then everything else is understudy. But for sure, osteoporosis, it is slam dunk, helps with vaginal symptoms like dryness and pain. It's slam dunk. Um, but it's not, and, um, hot flashes and night sweats is a third clear indication that actually hot flashes and night sweats pretty much clears up when you start hormone therapy. So those three things like is a slam dunk, you should be on it. But back then, back, you know, when I was in training, um, hormone therapy was really shunned and everybody got shut off from it because of this one study, the nurse's health study, which found a link between hormone therapy cancer.

48:56Dr. Amy Shah:And from that time, when I was in training, it was like prescribing like something completely toxic and dangerous. And so nobody got hormone therapy. And then recently they looked back at that study and they kind of split up the population. They're like, wait a second, how come all of the cancers kind of really happened in this one population? Turns out like the older women um who had started hormone therapy kind of late in um their lives 60 or whatever above um were the ones that were getting more of the cancers and also the types of hormone therapy that they use in that study don't even exist anymore they were using like synthetic um hormones and so synthetic progestins uh are very linked to um to cancer and so there's been a lot of back So now that we've clarified all this, it does seem like a great option for women in that kind of menopause range.

49:55Dr. Amy Shah:So what happens is perimenopause is like you're starting, you're noticing maybe first fatigue and sleep issues. Then you're noticing, you know, the frozen shoulder, the carpal tunnel, the ear, like all these brain fog, all of that, the weight gain. And then as you get closer to menopause, often it's like hot flashes, night sweats, osteoporosis. And so that's when that is like the nice window to be starting therapy.

50:21Darin Olien:Do you think that that could also contribute to like poor lifestyle leading up to like say someone is, you know, most of their life they're not eating so well and all of that stuff. And then they get more of these symptoms. Yes. And do you find that healthier you are, less of those things would occur anyway? Yes.

50:45Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah, of course. Like, you know, we know that women who smoke, for example, have like poor outcomes during this time of life. People who drink a lot of alcohol who don't. And I think what most women don't understand that men do actually. You are at peak muscle and bone in by 30. And everything after that is like, you have to fight for it. So you, a lot of women, they are smoking, drinking, or maybe not eating well, dieting, whatever, have a very poor lifestyle diet by the time they're 30. And so then you look at them at 40 or 50 and they've already gotten osteoporosis. They've already gotten, you know, they're already very low muscle mass.

51:33Dr. Amy Shah:They're already having heart disease. Like, you know, there's, so yes, absolutely. the earlier you can start those habits the better it is it's not a quick fix to be like oh well everything like you know the all the studies that we look at nutrition and lifestyle they're all like longitudinal long studies um you really do have to create habits that's why when it comes to exercise i don't know how you feel but after reading every kind of longevity study all the like longest living people's, you know, blue zone stuff. I really believe that exercise, there has to be an element of like fun that you can stick with for years and years.

52:12Like whether it's biking, pickleball, tennis,

52:16Dr. Amy Shah:you know, hiking, whatever it is. And if you don't have something, you could be walking. But like you need to do an exercise, not just to burn calories, but like there's gotta be something.

52:26Darin Olien:And beat yourself up. Yeah. A lot of people are like, I gotta lose this weight.

52:30Dr. Amy Shah:I always know when I go to a class or try something new when it's like I'm looking at my watch to find out when we're going to be done I know that's not the foundational exercise for me because you have to really the time has to fly by my daughter is a dancer and one time she had a five hour rehearsal and I told her oh my god five hours of dancing that sounds terrible and she was like honestly mom I didn't realize the time like it just flew by and so like when you actually love something it's like that's how you know

53:03Darin Olien:find that thing for you for sure and then just like repeat it yeah and i think community and relationships help so much oh my god like i i've trained with basically the same group of guys really for close to 20 years what do you guys do It's just functional training stuff, resistance stuff. But we also, you know, we bike and we hike and we do crazy pool stuff and all of that. But the thing, like I grew to love resistance training just because I was an athlete and I love. But the most powerful is that we're having fun together, even though we're suffering some of it. But we're having fun doing it.

53:48Darin Olien:Yes, that community aspect. And that community is huge. Even if it's grabbing one other person and starting your own thing, getting that. And again, I think so much of this challenge in our world today is isolation when community is so powerful and necessary.

54:08Dr. Amy Shah:That's, you know, I love that take. But every time I talk about it, this is the problem in America. Everyone is, I wouldn't say everyone. so many people don't feel like they have someone that they could go and work out with or they could call if they need it i mean it's insane to me that that is so prevalent because i feel like you know i see people you know walking around all the time and groups are like it seems like people are friendly with each other but it feels like when you really look under the hood people really feel disconnected yeah because they have online friends but they don't have like real life friends yeah

54:56Darin Olien:that's a such a big issue i think we're coming into with even children oh yeah you know they're like you know and listen it's that that the phone and it's so engineered to do exactly billions and billions of dollars have been spent to hijack the dopamine pathways just like that

55:19Dr. Amy Shah:remember the junk food companies they did the exact same thing that that that the social media companies are doing now they're trying to figure out the best way to hijack your pathways so it's like you can't just watch one tiktok like it's like the same thing as a dorito like you wouldn't just be able to have one because your body just like they know how to capture that pathway and make you eat more that that's I think the isolation issue so I talk about this thing so there's the female friendship effect so there's a version for men too but there is a special bond special things that happen when you're around other friends so your oxytocin levels go up and women for some reason are just wired well for many reasons are just wired to actually have a bigger release around other friends.

56:14Dr. Amy Shah:Um, they, maybe it's from, you know, thousands of how we evolved, um, to be in communities and women especially thrive in community. And so for women, I talk about it in the book. It's like, that's one of the non-negotiables is like, you really need to, if you don't have it right now, go and cultivate it. Like what you have is so special, but I don't think a lot of people, probably when you say that, people are surprised because it's not like, not very many people have that where they can say they've trained or they have a group that like, like a group that might notice if you don't show up for a week,

56:52Darin Olien:you know? Oh, for sure. They're giving me shit. Yeah.

56:56Dr. Amy Shah:And they might say like, everything okay? Like you need that. That's what's the definition of community, right? Like you, I feel like with our digital world and how disconnected we are, there's not a lot of people who'd say, oh, if I was missing, if I didn't show up for a week, like, would anybody even know?

57:17Darin Olien:Yeah, that's such a huge one. And, you know, that bonding hormone, that oxytocin, it makes sense the way you said it, in the sense that women need that almost even more than anyone. Yeah. And the healthiest women I have in my life, all have really strong female friends, relationships, all of that stuff. And as you were saying that, I'm like clocking my friends going, all the thriving ones.

57:49Dr. Amy Shah:The thriving ones. That's how you thrive. Your cortisol goes down, your oxytocin goes up, you get serotonin and dopamine hit. So that's why it's so nourishing to be around other friends. you don't get the same kind of effect when even when you're around your family or whatever. And the male female is very interesting. It can be very, it can be very good, but it can also not be good. So it just depends. I think it, you definitely want all of it. You want the male female if you want, if that's the way. And then you want the same, you want your friends and then you want, you know, different intergenerational relationships too.

58:34Dr. Amy Shah:That's really great too.

58:36Darin Olien:That's a big one that's splintered, I think, in this country.

58:41Dr. Amy Shah:It's like most cultures still have grandparents that are in proximity or have lots of contact or even with elderly in the community. That's not something that we see a lot of. A huge part of health is that, is not being feeling connected or feeling like you're part of something people want need that

59:05Darin Olien:big time i mean some of my funnest memories are sitting down in some far off land having a meal with a family and they're all there like the matriarch the patriarch the like the kids and And like, God, I remember this one. Just because you brought up India. I was in, I was looking at, we were talking to these farmers with ashwagandha and way out. And this guy, it's like the matriarch. He was maybe 85, just piercing clear eyes, white hair, totally present. and it was just like captivating. Right? And so then they invited me to dinner and it was just like this unbelievable, and you're like, wow, same thing happened in the Amazon.

1:00:02Darin Olien:Yeah. These people, going back to the happiness thing, like what is happiness? What is life? And so much of our modern world has cut this off or isolated us. And it's almost like even what you're talking about here, we have to reorient ourselves. Or else we're just kind of a victim to the path that seemed to be laid out in front of us. But we can kind of step back in.

1:00:34Dr. Amy Shah:So a question I get a lot, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too. It's like, oh, yeah, but the people in my life, my family's toxic or this person, I don't want to be around these people. and I and I said like yeah you definitely want to edit your life and and you don't owe anybody anything even if they're you know you're related or whatever you definitely want to pick maybe there's new people that you pick that you want to have in your circle or that you want to have more proximity proximity with you don't have to be stuck with you know the people that you are with and people will say oh what but it's someone who lives with me or like a family member like it's a co-worker or whatever and so um it's really just navigating around and finding a crew of people a community or even like you said just one other person or two other people that um you actually feel relaxed and that oxytocin serotonin dopamine burst and do more things with those people even if it's a whole new group than you've ever had yeah being bold enough to kind of step out yeah maybe do something where you can like for example um when i was working as a full-time physician you know in a clinic very traditional i had a very different group of friends because it was like you know other people that were doing the same thing and then when i kind of like broke away from that i also noticed like you start to notice like peep you want to be around the people that are doing like really different things that maybe um and so i've definitely edited a little bit as i get because the people that the community that i feel really close to is looks a little different now you know than before and i think that's everybody everybody's like evolving all the time you always have um changes and you can always choose you can always make new friends or

1:02:28Darin Olien:like have new and it's also i think the more we kind of take a pause in our own lives and kind of go inside go what really matters to me that can be kind of an indicator of going hey I want to exercise I wanted to you know and so you find other people like that you know I want to play music and I haven't played it in a while and then all of a sudden you start doing it and then other people of like mind so it's yes it doesn't have to be so challenging other than maybe answering your first the the call to you first of what you want in your life what makes you happy and then by doing those taking some action in that that creates an invitation for other people it's

1:03:10Dr. Amy Shah:magnetic life oh so it's actually that's actually biologically true too so your gut bacteria that you have you share with the people around you and so one of the best ways so it's like that old thing about like who you surround yourself with become you know that's who you become like literally biologically that's true um it's not even just like sharing bacteria like through food it just in being in close proximity to um people is like you're sharing bacteria with um and so it's good and bad so if you're around really like unhealthy or even mind or body you want to distance yourself um but you like you said make yourself the healthiest the happiest the most fulfilled version of yourself because the people then that you attract around you are going to become that way and you're influencing them they're influencing you it's kind of like a two-way street so it can be really nice especially like that's why it's really nice to be around um people who are really great at whatever they do because you're getting passively getting you know advice about how to do it whether it's health whether it's business mindset you know maybe they're just really awesome at surfing i don't know you know like you you kind of like get that not only from just being around them but like their bacteria actually like is shared i think i'm turning into a dog then you can you can hear it's actually really good um to be around animals in general all the time yeah two dogs that's that's awesome yeah but being i feel like the gut bacteria thing it was like very scary for people because they're like wait really like you can catch bacteria from people like then i better watch out like yeah you should watch it you should be around people who are really feel it make you feel good as within so without in a certain sense right yes as within

1:05:03Darin Olien:yes yes so without so what's it you know it's like we have a lot of power here yeah we can make a lot

1:05:11Dr. Amy Shah:lot of changes but yeah you're right though we have to step back from what we've kind of been told and programmed to do um you know I look at my teens and it's like it's I'm constantly kind of telling them about this because I think it's really easy to be like oh this is normal like oh you know being on um social on the phone um and not you know doing anything outdoors is normal And I'm like, no, that's not normal. I think it's always like reminding them like what they need to be doing to kind of upgrade their life and being different. Yeah.

1:05:46Darin Olien:And that social thing, it's like, yeah, get them to question, start questioning early.

1:05:50Dr. Amy Shah:I mean, 70 % of teens are eating ultra processed foods as their main diet. Like they're, I'm sorry, they're eating 70 % of their diet as ultra processed foods.

1:06:01Darin Olien:It's not going to have a good outcome.

1:06:02Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah. Can you imagine what that's going to do?

1:06:04Darin Olien:The habits that are built.

1:06:06Dr. Amy Shah:Because they are the most susceptible to that dopamine rush. So both social media and fast food. So they're the ones that are most affected. Double whammy. Yeah.

1:06:17Darin Olien:But, you know, again, like we can step in the best that we can and start to change these things. So I'm curious, like, you know, as women are going through this perimenopause and then menopause, what do you think the opportunity is once you've kind of helped navigate the physical side of things? Yeah. Maybe.

1:06:42Dr. Amy Shah:Such a big opportunity. Right. Yeah. So there's this theory, this little leading theory of why we live past menopause. Because most, actually almost every single other animal in the animal kingdom does not live past menopause. They die shortly after their ovaries kind of involute. It's like a death of an organ. Once you have a death of an organ, like your body dies, right?

1:07:14Darin Olien:Like starts imploding.

1:07:15Dr. Amy Shah:Yeah. And so the leading theory of why humans evolved to do this, and like there's like four other, you know, species that it's because the need for women in society, the grandmother effect. Right. So, you know, because you travel to all of these different communities around the world, they have a huge role that they play in not only just caretaking. They help with they help their daughters and their sons take care of children. So they're really grandmothers. They're also the matriarchs of the society. They're also the leaders of society. And so I think wisdom keepers, wisdom keepers. So it's a very big reminder.

1:07:55Dr. Amy Shah:I always remind people that this is not the time I think society or the beauty industry. street, whatever, like, or basically like your time's up or even Hollywood time's up. Um, you know, you're on the decline, but really in, if you look at it from afar and evolutionarily, this is the time where you're really stepping into your power. Um, and this is the time where you really are the person everyone goes to and leaders of companies and leaders of, um, communities and leaders of families um so there's a lot out there that um you have left to do and so i always say like you still have gifts that you have inside of you that have not yet been discovered and that's for everyone but i think women often feel like after a certain age they're just like okay i'm done i'm not gonna learn anything new i'm not gonna do anything new because society told me i'm done and i just want to like flip that script if you really look at it scientifically no you're you're at your peak of power yeah wouldn't that be great if more of that was owned but like if you look at ceo businesses leadership roles i mean you see it all the time like the women that are in those positions are the like the menopausal the post you know that's it's like those are the women and so i think we have to get used to that and really push that even more you're like 40 under 40 is just not practical for men or women right i have some of

1:09:21Darin Olien:like i have some great women in my life and one in particular i'm not going to call her name out on here because she'll be embarrassed but i'll call her dr barbara uh and she she is i've seen her operate with people and her ability to hear someone reflect back to them and then the outcome everyone wins her ability to do i've seen it so many times because there's a way i mean this is just end of one but i've seen it when when she can receive what people want without getting like um reactive and then kind of come in with a much better idea yep and everyone walks away going oh that's great yeah right i mean so and that i've seen it over and over and over again not just with her and some other women my life god of society if we could like i love to switch this whole thing up because if we embraced that we wouldn't be doing some of the same shit we're doing in society 100 and i you know i think when i see you know one of the things i talk about

1:10:37Dr. Amy Shah:a lot in in all of my work is you can build brain at any age you can build muscle at any age you can build bone at any age you can reverse the age of your heart you know at any age so i think people need to know that what your you know your age doesn't really determine who you are there's a lot that is up to you still a lot on the table yeah exactly i love it i love the work that you

1:11:06Darin Olien:do it i love i love this because this is a societal shift yes and and uh every individual person if taking what you've put here and taking the responsibility and understanding it in a way that you didn't you weren't even taught medical school how the hell is someone supposed to it's not being passed down in the way that it was probably passed down indigenously so if we have a greater knowledge women getting into studies more so we understand the goods and the bads of any given application that's incredible necessity that's needed in the world uh yeah someone said

1:11:48Dr. Amy Shah:to me like we need to do whatever we can to like advance the care of women because they're we've been kind of like neglecting them for this long yeah give me five minutes okay but

1:12:04Darin Olien:um but yeah that's i mean i'm all for it because that's you know and you know like one of the other

1:12:12Dr. Amy Shah:things i feel is so important to think about i think that you probably feel really passionate about is like what we are doing in our modern world often is like hurting us we've you know we've done a we've had a lot of progress but we're there's a lot that we're doing that's

1:12:33Darin Olien:actually hurting us as yeah it seems like that's one of the books i'm gonna give you my book yeah fatal conveniences right it's like on the one hand you're like oh yeah it's good but it's like it's actually harming us on the way and the expression of it. But this is our opportunity. Have these discussions, get this information so that people are then empowered to not be sitting in this confusion. And especially family dynamic when this shift is happening. Before perimenopause and menopause, the mom's superhero, hero making sure everyone's all right yeah right and now she's kind of has to like hey i gotta take care of myself the family's got to understand that too yes and that whole shift is a massive

1:13:23Dr. Amy Shah:opportunity here yeah and that's why i think it's like very um important for all of us to discuss it not just you know the women who are going through it but like employers should know this uh you know spouses should know this friends should know this because then you can support your women through these times like we know there's you know most women have lost productivity during this time in their lives with work and we know that you know lots of spouses don't understand what they're going through or friends and community members so I think everyone needs to understand what's happening here because I don't know about you but like we don't really talk about it and we're not really told like yeah hey this is something that is this huge population of people from like age 35 to 60 plus that are going to be experiencing these things and you might be in the vicinity of them and you should know that know how to support them support them

1:14:20Darin Olien:because the wisdom wisdom's coming that's right yeah so let's get it we need it in society that's right well thank you for your time thank you for the work you're doing keep keep kicking ass thank you for having me yeah awesome thank you so much so awesome