Dr. Jessica Stavale: Beyond the Muscle—How Fascia Can Free You from Chronic Pain

19:14Jessica Stavale:Yes.

19:15Darin Olien:You know, and that's the moment. And so I want to get in a couple things. So let's step into that kind of indigenous, ancient wisdom side of things, because I haven't looked into it. But what, you know, certainly you can lean into when I look at systems that have been around infinitely longer than the allopathic system. You have Ayurveda, which 20 ,000 years potentially, traditional Chinese medicine, 10 ,000. Yeah, like infinitely longer and always looking at systems greater than acute.

19:56Jessica Stavale:Yes.

19:57Darin Olien:Reactionary.

19:58Jessica Stavale:The whole body. We need to look at it together.

20:00Darin Olien:Yeah.

20:01Jessica Stavale:Mind, emotion, spirit, sexually, physically, it's all one. If one is affected, the other parts are. So we can't keep sectioning it out. Right.

20:10Darin Olien:The reductionism is nuts.

20:12Jessica Stavale:Yes.

20:13Darin Olien:Right. It really is. And it's so, I guess, from our little brains, it makes sense to do that. If we're coming from our brain going, hey, my finger hurts, fix my finger.

20:26Jessica Stavale:Right. And there's a place for it. And I don't want to discredit because there's a place for it.

20:30Darin Olien:You get a gunshot. We need it.

20:32Jessica Stavale:There's surgeries I've had on my body after car accidents. I wouldn't be here without it. So I just want to make sure I give respect to all sides. To me, it's about how do we bring it together. But it's about empowering people. Empowering people to take the control where you're headed with what's out there to help ourselves. And that's where I stand, right?

20:51Darin Olien:Yeah. And to that, the issues become the compounding issues. Yes. Right? So the chronic something is then creating similar, I can say, my back, right? An injury 30 years ago. All of my bells and whistles weren't working anymore. So it's screaming at me. Okay. Right? So that's what was going on for me. And it's these building up of these, call it a trauma.

21:22Jessica Stavale:Yes.

21:23Darin Olien:And then it's not addressing this system.

21:27Jessica Stavale:Yep.

21:28Darin Olien:And then these patterns continue, continue, continue. And then they become emotional. They become or whatever they're.

21:36Jessica Stavale:They compound.

21:37Darin Olien:They compound.

21:37Jessica Stavale:Absolutely.

21:38Darin Olien:So that's where this is so important to start understanding this. And I guess from digging around this subject as much as you have, have the ancient indigenous wisdoms, has this shown up in any of their understanding in text? And how has it?

22:02Jessica Stavale:And, you know, I'm not going to, I'm so respectful, right? That I just, I can't say that I know it all. Things have been really brought to my attention, I think, with the platform that I hold. I had a beautiful sentiment sent to me that Hawaiian wisdom teaches you to understand the octopus and you understand the fascia. And when you look into that, it really did relate. And I love it. I eat it up, right? Like I'm growth mindset.

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24:15Darin Olien:Because better sleep isn't a luxury. It's an absolute necessity.

24:20Jessica Stavale:I live in growth mindset. Like I will forever until it's my time not to be here. Give me more knowledge. Collaboration of intelligence makes us stronger, not competitiveness. I think, you know, Chinese, traditional Chinese medicine has a lot of wisdom to teach us. What we call or what they've tried to change to fascial lines really is coordinating with the meridians. And so there's been so much truth there already. And I think the knowledge is there, but it's hard because how do we section out wisdom like that? And I stand for self-healing, self-help. We need your practitioners or your team. You lead your team, right?

25:07Jessica Stavale:That's something I learned along my own journey. But I think it is looking into what's already been out there and saying, okay, how do we apply this? There's validity to this. This hasn't been around, like you're saying, for tens of thousands of years if it doesn't hold that validity. So why are we discrediting it or why are we not integrating it? Maybe it's a better way to verbiage that.

25:29Darin Olien:I mean, I can't. My brain goes into like, you know, you go into this conspiratorial thing. Like, how is this essential proverbial right arm of 40 to 50 pounds of our body that we get to float around in? you know our soul gets to interact with yes like why would this be not talked about because then i i want to get into another aspect of it is this is not just physical no not even a little bit right so and then i want so there's receptors there's communication there's highways there's so talk about that a little bit of and then there's also the endocannabinoid system like How is all of that working?

26:18Darin Olien:And I've heard, can't validate, but there's infinite almost receptors on the fascial system.

26:28Jessica Stavale:I agree with that 100%. And I'm not sure that we're ever fully going to be able to prove in a scientific setting that this is the way it is because you have to think of fascia dries up when we pass away, right?

26:43Darin Olien:Autopsies don't do anything. Correct.

26:45Jessica Stavale:And that's, I think, another reason why it's flying so far under the radar, because it's not something you can see it when, you know, with a cadaver, you can see it, but not for the life really that it holds. And how do you really show or prove? We all know we can walk into a room, you could leave here, maybe you're going somewhere, you walk into a room, and you're the energy, you're gonna feel that energy, right? Sometimes your hair stands up, sometimes you meet someone and your body's like, Nope. Other times, you're just like, Yep, this is going. Bioelectric.

27:15Darin Olien:Correct.

27:15Jessica Stavale:And so I just think the fascist system is what drives all that. I think to know all the details, I think there's still so much to learn and that we're going to continue to learn about it. I think the starting point is the acceptance that it is there. And you have to think of it as the quantum interface that is able to receive all of that information. I mean, what makes you powerful as a human? Your energy and emotions, right? That really sets us apart. and that ability we all have that intuition we all have that sixth sense we all may not be in tune with it but that half second i teach people right with psychology that half second reaction that is your intuition before your body and brain take over yes and we all need to learn to trust ourselves a little more many call the gut feeling to me that's your intuition but that is your receptors that you're talking about that's the fascist system that is able to really receive

28:11Darin Olien:all of this information it sounds like it's it's you know i i it's funny because i was before kind of driving here and i'm sitting with this is just all my feeling yeah it's like i'm sitting with this this this fascial field and it's almost like the more i'm learning about your work and And you said it straight away, this kind of this bioelectric field. It's almost like it's almost this internal real structure, but almost ethereal in a sense. Yeah, that's fair. That it's a sensitivity. Yes. That might be one of the greatest kind of powers we have, but it's subtle.

29:04Jessica Stavale:Yes. Yes.

29:06Darin Olien:And so like you said, that's what it reminded me of, right? So that intuition, it's that field that you're receiving. Walk into a room. People are feeling that field shift. Yes. You're feeling the field shift when you walk into a certain room. Do you believe that that fascial system is that biggest receptor field? I do. Sensor?

29:33Jessica Stavale:I really do. Yeah. And I believe it holds just as much power as the CNS. Now, let me clarify. I'm not discrediting the power of the CNS or the brain. Central nervous system. Yeah. So I'm not discrediting that in the slightest, but what houses the CNS? Your fascia. So how is that not a least of equal, if not more in some capacity? Not, again, to I don't want people jumping on it's not more. We don't exist without this and the CNS. We totally understand that. But I think that it's going to be pretty well known as exactly what you're saying, what you're clarifying there.

30:11Darin Olien:Yeah, but to your point, it is a communication system. 100%. But we reduce it down to like, well, our central nervous system and our hormones are certain levels of communication.

30:28Jessica Stavale:Right.

30:28Darin Olien:But this is a whole other kind of saran wrap highway system.

30:35Jessica Stavale:Right.

30:37Darin Olien:Which interconnects.

30:39Jessica Stavale:I think the important thing is why I call it. Yeah, it's not. And that is the very important part. And even with the upcoming book of the fascia blueprint, it literally is the missing link. Because there's no reason to discredit anything we already know. We know that to be true. but it's like like you kind of said how do you just get rid of the right arm so then it's like no we need to add on we've just there's just been oversight of the play that comes in with it so how do we take the new information with the information we already know and then interconnect it all right and what i believe very different than what i've seen out there is i believe you fascia as a delicacy because of its ability to respond and because of it being so high sensory your largest sensory system in your body and in knowing that I am not one that believes in force I do not think you should bruise yourself to help it I do not think you should cut pain to help it you know I don't think you need to be twisting yourself all in this really funky place pushing this and this like it's just not my beliefs and how i've seen and what's kind of proved to go forward because you're not wanting temporary results right and when the biggest conversations and even as a decade as a medical massage therapist deep tissue work all of that it can feel great but most people are going to tense back up within 24 to 48 hours if not tensing up as someone's pushing correct really hard yeah and so i really believe in treating it as the delapisi that it is to get life-changing results and truly free people of chronic pain things like fibromyalgia you know there's just autoimmune everything is connected to it so again there's there's a connecting piece that i think the fascial component needs to be brought in on yeah let's let's talk

32:32Darin Olien:about that because fibromyalgia is very real for people absolutely right and that seems as though it's probably the primary issue yes would be the fascial system and i do say that i am very bold

32:46Jessica Stavale:in my beliefs that fascia is the core issue when it comes to chronic pain and i believe that from my own story also uh 2018 was my second major car accident both not my fault and i'm a full-time I'm a solo parent. I raised my daughter financially and physically on my own. I was put on Social Security disability at 37 after many surgeries. And I sought every modality I could. And ultimately, I kind of said I was done. It was kind of like, take the pill. There's nothing else that we can do. Retrospect, I'm going to, I believe we all have to own our, I say own our shit. So we can bleep that if we need to.

33:27Jessica Stavale:But we all have to own our shit. We all have shit and we all have to own it. So retrospect, you know, I had PTSD, but I believe I was stuck in a victim mindset. Why is this happening to me again? Why can't I get help? Why can't this person fix me? Why can't this one? I'm seeing 10 providers. Why can't they fix this for me? It's never going to work. You are responsible and we each are for owning and fixing ourselves. and that's where I you know really educate so strongly that your providers are your team and it was through that journey when I was stuck in the chronic pain that I figured out and connected and through obviously advanced education that I decided to go on for I went back to school from my bed I was like this is not going to be my life and my daughter does not get to have a mom like this she has me and I'm going to make sure we live this really good life right And so that's when I started connecting fascia, emotions, my mindset to be like, okay, like you kind of have to check yourself.

34:28Jessica Stavale:Right. And you have these, I think we all have these groundbreaking moments and I can never forget mine. Like, you know, that those gut wrenching cries sometimes that you get on bended knee on the floor in my bathroom. And then all of a sudden you just rise and I'm just like, screw this. Like, I'm going to figure it out. And that's what led me to fascia. And now I have so many fibro patients, chronic pain patients, and they live and swear by not only my medical device, but what I teach in my methods. They now have the tools to help themselves, but they now can relate it to emotional, which is hard for some people to address.

35:05Darin Olien:Okay, everybody. Are you ready to upgrade your operating system? I know I am. I'm always game to do that. Not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. That's what we're doing over at Super Life Patreon. This isn't just behind-the-scenes membership. It's a global experiment in conscious living that I am connected to, committed with, in every cell of my body. Each week, you'll get exclusive access to deeper podcast conversations, extended interviews, voice notes from the road of me personally, personal reflections, behind-the-scenes footage, community wellness challenges, and even surprise drop-ins that I no longer do on social media because I don't really dig it anymore.

35:57Darin Olien:We're talking decentralized healing, reclaiming sovereignty, ancient wisdom meets future tech, and a tribe of people with you walking the path. If you love this podcast, the Patreon is where we go deeper, get more real, and reclaim our power together. Join us at patreon.com forward slash Darren Olean. That's Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com forward slash Darren Olin, D-A-R-I-N-O-L-I-E-N. Join the movement, support the mission, let's rise together. Yeah, so let's look at that because, you know, even being someone who's always been physical and playing football and all that stuff. it's so that where i've learned is like push it harder or push harder or whatever that kind of idea came in like like get rid of this thing and all of that stuff so when you're talking because you you said something powerful around this delicacy side of things and seeing as though now that we've unpacked a little bit about what fascia is it's this you know saran wrap it's it's bioreceptive so it's very sensitive to the environment it's communicating using systems communicating to systems yes so when you're like obviously everyone is different fair right however when you see someone because and there's different types of there's acute pain there's car accidents there's emotional pain all of that stuff so when you're seeing someone how do you then start that journey between they're physically in pain how do we then bring in this subtle support from the fascial system how does that work like so i'm very transparent i'm a very direct

38:02Jessica Stavale:person so the minute somebody comes to me with pain i'm like talk to me like yeah what what type of trauma is behind you well i don't know if it'd be trauma and i said i know it doesn't matter clinically what some professional is going to call it trauma what are you holding what happened in your childhood what beliefs do you have like and are there absolutely 100 % physical things that happen to the body that are going to affect the system yeah so i want to be clear i'm not discrediting that but then when you look at even injuries there is a play that comes through with the mental and emotional after that play into the recovery right and i think that you i think if we move to an integrative type of wellness and i understand everybody can't know everything but it's knowing when to say we're going to work here physically but you need to talk to somebody about this.

38:53Jessica Stavale:This is why this is not letting go. Right. And making sure I think we're giving recommendations as providers to put the right team together. So no one's going to expect the physical therapist to be able to do psychotherapy while they're working on the body. But it is being able to say this isn't letting go. I believe there's an emotional component. We need somebody else on the team to help with this. And I'm not saying, you know, to refer out to the right person of

39:20Darin Olien:that team so it's it's that so that first step is acknowledging correct wherever that emotional side of it and the thing that we often to our point for we don't it's hard it's hard to move into pain yes we're trying to avoid it all the time and that's part of the system but in this instance we want to acknowledge right start with the acknowledgement of like

39:45Jessica Stavale:to your point I want to be straightforward yes what's going on and let that person turn and at least start that acknowledgement right because that's held in the tissue and in that acknowledgement you can see mindset and I understand there's psychology in my background but mindset's everything and you can never work harder than the person in front of you

40:06Darin Olien:it's one of the things how does that show up can you see because let's say someone comes to you who's had fibromyalgia or chronic pain for 30 years. And so there might be a place where they've identified with that. I'm sure you've seen that a few times.

40:25Jessica Stavale:I'll go, when did it start? And the age, whatever. Okay, now we're going to look at what happened before that.

40:30Darin Olien:Right. And so then their mindset needs to also shift out of the victimization that they have taught themselves to be in.

40:41Jessica Stavale:And that is, I'm going to tell you, one of the hardest things because nobody wants to sit in front of you and say, I've contributed to this or be able to admit that. And it's one of the most eggshell conversations to have because I'm very prepared every time I have it that somebody can be very upset with me. But I've never had somebody not return. Sometimes people have to cool down and then they're like, I can see what you're saying.

41:06Darin Olien:but that again is owning our shit right and it's hard and can you get there also through the fascia because meaning like you start moving physically and maybe someone has buried it yes and they they're not aware of it and it certainly an initial conversation or whatever right so so oftentimes the body holds stuff so can you then move into i guess what is the some of the access points as you start moving into the body systems and the fascial systems do you then see stuff

41:39Jessica Stavale:come up yeah i think we're going into somatic in that area and absolutely there can be emotional releases i think that people didn't realize that was there but it's my belief for optimal longevity that once that release happens bringing acknowledgement to it and it could be that person just acknowledging when it comes up there's going to be something that goes on that's going to remind them of what was in there and they could easily say well i wasn't i didn't know that that was still in there right right but just acknowledging that release verbally to themselves strongest relationship we ever have is you versus you we pour into others greatly when we take care of ourselves how we talk to ourselves so acknowledgement to ourselves is just as important So if we get a somatic release like you're referring to, it's acknowledging that that was in there and I'm letting this go at this point.

42:37Jessica Stavale:And really, I think, evaluating if we feel we're still holding on.

42:42Darin Olien:And so as you're kind of getting into that, so I'd love to hear how you work specifically with the fascial system because you developed some technology. I wish we had time. I'd love to experience because I certainly have a laundry list of old patterns that I'm still working through. But it's kind of like the human experience too, right? It's like we don't get out of jail free. who helped the birth itself is traumatic i don't even care how perfect it went right like having a body in this world is gnarly right right absolutely it carries us through everything and you know i

43:23Jessica Stavale:think where i work a little differently is i obviously i definitely have clients that i work on but i'm very big into the self-help area how do we help ourselves with that not from a book

43:35Darin Olien:but true self-help. Correct. There's anything wrong with books. No, the books give you

43:41Jessica Stavale:the groundwork. You need the book for the information. It's applying it after the book, I think, is the important part there. We could all read a hundred different books and it can go sit in the pile, but if we're not actually going to apply anything that we've read or learned, it's not going to do us any justice. To start, I feel when I was really novice in this years ago, just coming out of that car accident, I used to teach like a resuscitation so areas of tenderness that you can find in your body is what we would classify as a blockage it's where the fascia is holding on you're you do not have flow so i say traditionally it was force it force it go deeper bruise it like but why are we hurting one system to help another was always my question i was in enough pain why do i have to cause more pain to think that you're going to help me and so it created this like three three three rhythm is how it was easy for me to teach.

44:35Jessica Stavale:And you just have to think of resuscitation. If the heart goes, you need to resuscitate it, right? To get that electricity back to it and to get it going. Same thing applies to the tissue. Now, people said, Jess, that's not obtainable. My finger hurts. Like, I can't keep going. And so...

44:52Darin Olien:So what does that look like, 3-3-3? What is that?

44:54Jessica Stavale:Yep, so it's just pumping for three.

44:57Darin Olien:So if you find an area where it's...

44:58Jessica Stavale:It's like tender. Yeah. So say this was tender. We'd pump for three and then pump and hold for three. Notice we're not trying to force too much and then pump for three. And you keep repeating that pattern of resuscitation and you'll feel that tender airy let go.

45:14Darin Olien:That's interesting because way back when I was telling you, I learned that neuromuscular therapy, which was revelatory at the time. But thumbs were very active and a lot of it was very intense. And I don't think they even were then aware. But the theory was the same. It was trying to reset a system, right? The theory was, and it would work sometimes, but if there was an intense pattern, we would just keep doing the same thing, and then that wasn't releasing.

45:48Jessica Stavale:But then I think you'd have to move what was possibly releasing.

45:52Darin Olien:But I like that because it's not, I got to feel the intensity. So when you keep doing that, what's the then the experience going on in the fascia it starts to let go because you start

46:04Jessica Stavale:getting fluid and flow there again just with that light correct but then it progressed to now what i call the pull pulse and push meaning pull pulse push okay and because you know when you teach people stuff you have to try to come up with ways that people can remember like and that's how i That's the psychology behind what I teach. And so we know that there's been wisdom that if you pick up and roll the skin, because it's pulling the fascia underneath. When you actually grab. Yeah, so that's why it's like a delicacy. We need it to go in multiple directions. So I have tools that are called the fascia flow line.

46:47Jessica Stavale:They're like rollers. They literally pick it up. So now what could take an hour for the body, we can roll and pick up that skin at different intensity intensities and the fascia underneath and now we're getting that pull the pulse is the three three three as i showed or vibrational component and the push is what i think is like that final exhale like there's certain combs on a tool and we just kind of think of combing through that that fascia there and what's really cool is again because i it's the missing link is it houses a lymphatic system so we're not having to pump the lymphatic system before we start this if fascia flows lymphatic flows and the same thing circulatory like if fascia flows your blood's gonna flow better why because it houses it

47:32Darin Olien:and injury is gonna heal itself because there's flow again and you're getting all the nutrients

47:37Jessica Stavale:from the blood so like again we know all these things we're just missing the component that can level up and that's why i literally call fascia your your very own superhero that's what i tell people it's your superhero living inside of you right like you can free yourself from

47:50Darin Olien:things that other people just aren't figuring out right so like let's just use me as an example yes so I have this so my original injury was they believe this was 91 right so I slammed into a guy playing football and I didn't realize I hurt myself until the game was over and then all of a

48:20Darin Olien:essentially ligaments and fascial plexus over the sacrum. Okay. You know, obviously that's a lot of tissue, probably 10 pounds of the fascia right there. That's a lot. Right?

48:33Jessica Stavale:Holding your whole girdle, you know, lower girdle together.

48:38Darin Olien:And so regular PT was not getting me back. So that was a career-ending injury, right? Okay. So that pattern has been there. like could I do certain things sure and then it just started screaming at me and it felt like a hot poker finally led to some debilitation of the joint some arthritis and all of that stuff um so when we're looking at I know listen I I know it's impossible for you to tell me exactly what to do for my whole thing but but but my point is that again like even me knowing certain things what i know i'm like hey my back hurts right like i'm getting practitioners and i'm

49:29Jessica Stavale:pulling on all my where do they go first let me just go there like i think i could teach this way

49:34Darin Olien:if if you with your and i don't even i would say hey it's hurting right here right right so but clearly that doesn't have to be the origin no because i'm already gonna go with i mean i would

49:45Jessica Stavale:have to assess and look at your patterns but my mind is immediately gonna go to i need to assess like intercostal from the chest and really i would look at the the feet and the the pattern that's coming up from the feet because when we have injuries there and i've had the same you start compensating and so if something can heal there you know you and i we both have major injuries our bodies are never going to be 100 % to the way they were, but we can take care of them in a way that we don't have to experience the pain. And so I would immediately go to looking at how you hold yourself here, but I would really go to evaluating the foot all the way up to the glute tie-in.

50:25Jessica Stavale:And right there, I bet you're going to find a lot.

50:27Darin Olien:Yeah, so it's, again, like acute injury, original.

50:31Jessica Stavale:Yes.

50:32Darin Olien:The origin.

50:33Jessica Stavale:Yes.

50:34Darin Olien:But it also sends off.

50:37Jessica Stavale:Correct.

50:37Darin Olien:instantly this this systemic really now we're talking about fascia so systemically now the fascia is affected everywhere now 30 years later it's funny because people and you say that when I people when I am around them a lot and I'm walking around they'll be like are you okay because the way you're walking but then then it kind of gets into this oh it's just your swag and how you're walking and I don't notice it okay because I'm not like thinking i'm cool i'm walking a little i've got my own way of walking right that sometimes

51:14Jessica Stavale:shows up and people i think it's probably contributing to exactly what you're looking at

51:19Darin Olien:so that's what i'm saying so it's coming from my feet yes it's coming all the way up and the pattern now is the pattern is now supported in the origin pattern that was created yes yes because

51:34Jessica Stavale:Because the way that you had to compensate your body to withstand the pain, recovery, and everything that you went through. It's the same thing I had to relearn walking. My right foot's been completely reconstructed twice. I'm talking it's just full of metal, the ankle. Well, then it started going, oh, I was having major hip pain. And oh, I was having the upper right shoulder. Well, I learned to walk in a way to keep the weight off that foot. And so now I started affecting all these other areas.

52:02Darin Olien:Yeah, and your fascia then tightens up to support your pattern.

52:07Jessica Stavale:Because we should think of it instead of like saran wrap. Because if you say saran wrap, people think wrapping. Do you know what I mean? We really have to think of it like the spider web, the web. It's like this 3 to 4D matrix that is just interweaving everywhere. So when you visualize it like that, we know, you know, I teach people to release here, like tight trap area. I'll teach you to release in your chest area. And they'll be like, oh my gosh, that works. like of course it does because you are holding yourself in a pattern so say we have forward head posture this is a really easy one to example and we're kind of stuck here cell phone posture there you go but the fascia is now stuck here right so we're experiencing all this pain back here the neck and we could work all that but in reality instead of just telling someone to put your shoulders back release the fascia up in the front here and watch everything open back up right And because we're stuck here.

53:01Darin Olien:So then let's talk about how we release or how you release the fashion. Yes. So like, so you've developed some of these tools. Yes. So how, how do those work and how, you know, obviously someone can't necessarily get all the tools all the time. So maybe a couple different ways of releasing that they can maybe self administer, or at least if a practitioner is open to it a massage service can open to it like what are some of the things that they can do and then please describe the tools as well okay so i think to start it goes

53:36Jessica Stavale:back to how i originally started teaching with the 333 which we've kind of already do that yeah like that is someone could cost you nothing yeah you could be like oh yeah the gosh that's tender yeah and we kind of just want to resuscitate that area we're not trying to how often would you do that then how long would you do that until you feel like oh okay yeah and it should and if it's not letting go within the first like minute or so move around a little bit meaning like it's

54:00Darin Olien:also pulling from somewhere else you can find hot spots and start doing that yourself correct

54:05Jessica Stavale:absolutely now mind you i understand the feedback was people are like just my finger hurts so okay i get that but or a loved one yes like hey could you just do this absolutely do exchanges yes and then i mean if you want to roll your skin i mean you can absolutely try to pick up and roll your skin like that is going to help release the fascia so good it does feel so good

54:24Darin Olien:on the back we used to do that all the time yeah rolling over the spine and you're ultimately

54:30Jessica Stavale:working that fascial tissue so i mean that's beautiful and but i think the tools came in because of feedback i didn't start there i didn't think oh i'm gonna come up and make sure that people have this system but what streamlines it so then i get people like you know i'm a busy mom I'm a busy professional. I don't have time to sit there for 30 minutes. What can I do that is going to make this super easy? And so, you know, it's just there's six different type of rollers in the line. And I say rollers, the two balls on the end, in between the balls roll down, and in between it picks up that tissue.

55:02Jessica Stavale:Feels amazing.

55:03Darin Olien:You have those now? They're not here. I didn't bring them here. No, but you have those. People can get those now. Yes, they're available. Yes. What's the website?

55:11Jessica Stavale:Thefaschamovement.com. Oh, yeah, of course. Yes. I remember that. Faschamovement.com. Yes. And so there's six different rollers defined and how they each have a different intensity. So they're not the same. And on the website, I do clarify the best areas. I have a big one for the body. It'll pick up a mass amount of tissue at one time.

55:27Darin Olien:Can you do this yourself in certain areas? Yes.

55:29Jessica Stavale:Well, that's what I teach. Now, mind you, I have a long list of massage therapists, PTs, everyone coming on board because assisted therapy is, we all use assisted therapy. Every professional, i'm gonna take that back osteopaths use their hands but most professionals use a form of

55:44Darin Olien:assisted therapy and so damn those things like that right so and then the the second part of

55:53Jessica Stavale:that you know is the pulse there's a ceramic tool you can use it does it work for you i can literally hold the ceramic tool between my two fingers and use it because i don't want somebody having to exhibit all of this force and then it's an additional ceramic tool where you'll see different levels of combs on it that literally will just rake i call it like rake through that tissue i'm feeling more relaxed i'm feeling more relaxed thinking about it but that system i really have to be honest i worked backwards i invented my medical device first and the medical device the knowledge that i found with it is how do i work backwards to create a system at home because i know everyone's not going to be able to obtain the medical device like i understand that but how do I help people that's always my thing how do I get people to help themselves at home it's truly correct and I don't our providers are so important I am one right but again it goes back to the circle of we have to help ourselves so what do we do in between seeing your provider and that's how I created the system and I use energy in my medical device two different types of energy that permeate down below the dermis level.

57:02Jessica Stavale:Yep.

57:03Darin Olien:Yeah.

57:03Jessica Stavale:Because I believe fascia is energy. So my mind went to, we're going to fix the energy by administering energy.

57:10Darin Olien:What are the frequencies that you're using that you found work with the fascial system?

57:14Jessica Stavale:So it's a combination. The one I can share right now is there is bipolar radio frequency involved with it, but it has a very different head to it. So it has two different interfaces for the the first generation model uh depending on smaller or larger area but um around what's admitting the frequency are um we'll say like probes all the way around in circle that go through it and so it's literally melt it's yep so it's penetrating down but it's like melting that tissue it's it's pretty amazing and people will get up and they will just be like i don't feel pain right now like one application one but it's not a one and done sure you gotta stay on it yeah you know there's a protocol to start especially for chronic pain sufferers you two to three times in a week but then you back down because then once you get to maintenance now you implement the self-care right the self-care tools that i know how to maintain when i get home and you literally will give somebody a different life and then you and then i would imagine that creates pattern shifts yes right absolutely yes thank you for saying that so like so again you know you may have been like this for a long time but if you that was the one thing about learning about the

58:33Darin Olien:body from a you know insertion how the body is supposed to be held yes then you can always reverse engineer so i always make sense to me going okay what what insertions are being pulled farther apart oftentimes is where the pain is going to show up but like you said if someone's collapsed they want someone to work here but in fact it's opening up here so so that's a pattern shift correct right so if a literal opening of fascial tissue yes opens up then it's going to reset your anatomical yes positioning and that's why you're the work becomes less right because But it requires that you've got to be a bit consistent because it was consistency that got you there.

59:19Jessica Stavale:Correct. And it is going to take consistency. You didn't sit in that pattern for 5, 10, 20 years, and will it take that long to undo? Absolutely not. You can literally undo that within weeks to months, just knowing that and being taught it. And that's what's really big about the fascia blueprint, the book coming out. I'm so excited about that. I connect it all. I connect it to your sexual health, your hormones, your cell health, your immunity. There is not anything that I cannot connect the fascia to. And that is, it's just such a beautiful, I think, gift to the well-being industry. And I'm sure there'll be additions to come after as more research comes in.

59:59Jessica Stavale:But how do I get all of this information? People want more and more and more of my mind and it's beautiful, but I'm one person, right? And I have a practice and I have a daughter who's my first and foremost, always stays at the front and so it was my way of getting it out and then my team and i are starting free webinars because i love connecting with people and talking right and i think it's a good way to get this out there and then to get more like-minded people coming together because it doesn't you know you build the community and then like i said previously intelligence comes together your intelligence can mix with my intelligence and we can level that up right well that's how two of my that's why that phrase when two or more people gather yes that's where things yes shift yes it's like you and i

1:00:45Darin Olien:are talking and i have a a light history of it but that light history created a curiosity right so when i saw what you were doing i already had a bit of history so i didn't have a barrier to entry to what you were saying in the same way someone else is going what the fuck is this fascist stuff yes You know what I mean? Yes. And that is a quantum shift we need to move into. I agree.

1:01:09Jessica Stavale:And I'm laughing because I get comments and people are like, my what? Like when I'm teaching and I just find humor in it and I'll be like, yeah. And then I kind of give the facts and then like I'm sure they go to Google and that information will all come up. But that reaction just made me laugh for that. What? What's in me? Yeah.

1:01:28Darin Olien:Let's talk. Okay, so we talk about almost this skeletal relationship to fascia, but let's talk about the organ system relating to fascia.

1:01:40Jessica Stavale:Okay, so visceral fascia.

1:01:41Darin Olien:Yeah, so we're talking about like that fascia, everyone listening, is around all of your essential organs.

1:01:49Jessica Stavale:Everything.

1:01:49Darin Olien:Everything.

1:01:50Jessica Stavale:Yes.

1:01:50Darin Olien:So it's like, again, I'm trying to break even this patterning that we're talking because we're not just talking about, oh, I've got a pain in my elbow, so a fascia, these new systems are going to help that.

1:02:02Jessica Stavale:Right.

1:02:03Darin Olien:But also, like, what's going on with my gut, my heart, my liver, my gallbladder, my kidneys, like all of that.

1:02:17Jessica Stavale:And I think that's what meridians teach if we're really looking at that. They are working with the fascia and they are connecting it. And though I have a little bit of different beliefs, there's power to it nothing but respect for it but they're following those those meridian lines and they're connecting to what you're saying is the visceral fascia so superficial deep visceral we're going to keep it just at the three to make this very simple and not overwhelm people visceral fascia is what surrounds those organs and so you can deep correct but you can affect the superficial to deep fascia and it's going to affect the visceral fascia and so i am very transparent and good with boundaries i haven't totally deep dive yet into the actual effect it's going to have on every organ i just know that it's a positive one at this point those are next steps like and this is where you get more people in their profession to come in and with their knowledge and you collaborate to take my knowledge of what i know with the fascia and then

1:03:15Darin Olien:integrate it with theirs yeah so it's funny because there's someone i want you to talk to

1:03:20Jessica Stavale:I'd love to.

1:03:22Darin Olien:Because your knowledge and her knowledge, and she's coming from Boulder, and she's going to be here. She's going to do a bunch of stuff with me. But she's a scientist. She's an ND.

1:03:33Jessica Stavale:She's very integrated on the endocannabinoid system. I love that.

1:03:37Darin Olien:And the receptors she's found, the most receptors, is on the fascia.

1:03:42Jessica Stavale:That's beautiful.

1:03:42Darin Olien:And she also says exactly what you said. Oh, I love that. In terms of it's the bioreceptor. Yes. It's probably the most receptive organ on the planet.

1:03:54Jessica Stavale:I agree with that. Right?

1:03:55Darin Olien:100%. So imagine this endogenous endocannabinoid system as well as how we can influence it. So I want you to, Danny Fontaine is the name. So I'm going to connect you two. The other thing that I would love for us to potentially do is I'd love to do a master class with you. I'm blasting off on something I've been wanting to do for a long time is a super life kind of program to help people live an extraordinary life. And it's my way of kind of jumping off of social media and creating it so I can really deliver on my knowledge in ways that are received. as well as bring people things like this that are not widely known but are essential.

1:04:50Jessica Stavale:Essential. I mean, it literally will shift people's lives from mental health conditions to physical conditions just to the way we show up for ourselves and our families. And that's what we have. It's the small moments in life. We never know. I think aging is a true gift, and we just never know. and if we can't live a life that we appreciate and enjoy, I mean, it's just robbing ourselves and our loved ones. And I would love to. Like, absolutely, let's collaborate on that. Let's do that.

1:05:19Darin Olien:Let's do a deep dive, like a three-day class or something. We can film. We can get it all going. Because this is the type of stuff. And I, you know, I too, like even with my injury, the thing that people listening, we're all in somewhat pain. Right. I agree. We're sitting down. We're, you know, we're disconnected from the natural world we came from in so many ways. We're being bombarded by toxic modern world. So getting back to these deepest, deepest layers of understanding our body. And this is, again, I just like 40, 50 pounds of a system.

1:05:58Jessica Stavale:Yes.

1:05:59Darin Olien:That is so complicated and complex.

1:06:03Jessica Stavale:And more than I think I understand right now and other people. and I'm very open. That's why I say you stay in growth mindset. We know where we are now. I know there's so much more coming.

1:06:12Darin Olien:Of course. But the thing is, I talked with Danny about this too, and not to get conspiratorial on, it's not really, but when the Flexner Report came out and then the American Medical Association was created, they squashed so much of traditional Chinese medicine and they pushed it all over here and they also scrubbed the endocannabinoid system. They scrubbed the fascial system. Like, it's again, I'm going to use this analogy again. It's like, don't worry about your right arm.

1:06:47Jessica Stavale:Right, right.

1:06:48Darin Olien:Just like, okay, we're just, this is what this system is. And it's a divorcing of the opposite of what you're trying to stay open to, which we all should.

1:06:59Jessica Stavale:Yes.

1:07:00Darin Olien:It's not reductionism that's going to create holistic health.

1:07:04Jessica Stavale:No, no.

1:07:04Darin Olien:It can't be. But there's points. Like when you're in a car accident. Yes. I was in my own car accident when I slammed into a linebacker and crushed myself.

1:07:15Jessica Stavale:Yes, you are.

1:07:16Darin Olien:Like that's stuff where we need the PTs. We need all of that stuff. 100%. But we need to unwrap the saran. I keep calling it saran wrap.

1:07:25Jessica Stavale:Think of it as like webbing. Webbing. You know, the webbing is a spider. We're all spider webbing. We got spider man. That's it. Your fascia gives you your spidey senses. Bingo. There you go.

1:07:34Darin Olien:so that's how everyone remembers you have your own your spider system that's what i say system

1:07:41Jessica Stavale:you know that's why i say it's your you literally have your own superhero living inside of you

1:07:45Darin Olien:that's that powerful maybe that's what spider-man's really talking about i don't know i don't know that far that way but yeah yeah pull it in we'll get toby mcguire is it yeah I think of his. Yeah, I think of his. Yeah, true. I actually met him a few times. Super sweet guy. Toby, what are your thoughts on his fascial system? I have no idea. I know, right? But I've used it. Yes. It's come out of my body.

1:08:12Jessica Stavale:It's not going to do that. But, you know, we can put the energy out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the bioelectricity out there. And, like, it is doing that.

1:08:21Darin Olien:But it is true. Yes. It is felt. Yes. And it's felt and it's also receiving it simultaneously. Yes.

1:08:29Jessica Stavale:Yes. But I think what you're saying is why my platform, I think, is such a gift for the reason being I just focus on connecting with the people, connecting with I want everybody's stories. I love interacting. I love getting information. I learn and grow from being able to interact. So and it's like people are like, this makes sense. Oh, my God. Like I could just go on like with the feedback that I get. So instead of trying to focus on trying to take on a system right now and change it, I just want to connect with the people because I think the people will speak. And it's the same path you're on, right?

1:09:03Jessica Stavale:How do you connect people back to what we need to be connected to to live the better life without the chemicals, the toxins? So I focus on the people more than anywhere else right now, because I think when we come together as a community and you're big on that community, right? And that's why I resonate with a lot with what you do. but when that community starts to come together the voice gets stronger and then that voice is harder to ignore when all of these people are like this validates and it validates every single time bam that's a freaking mic drop there you go yeah and we're done no but that but that but that is true and you know and part of the seduction i'm just gonna touch on this for a second part of the

1:09:48Darin Olien:seduction of what's not working in the world is to hammer at the other side for not doing it, right? It's the American Medical Association's fault. No, it isn't. It's just what they did at the time. It's just a system that keeps going, just like many other systems. But we can come together. We can learn about ourselves. We can come together with like mind, like tribe, like like a web, a bigger outside web, and people who want to take on the power of their own choices, their own healing, and come into contact with things that work along that, letting go of the story that keeps us from that, I'm all in.

1:10:32Jessica Stavale:I am, Joe.

1:10:33Darin Olien:I mean, that to me is like, I suffered as a kid. I barely made it. And the challenge, the gift they gave me was a level of strength and resiliency. And I compensated for it too. But also letting go of birth trauma and letting go of trauma is like you don't, as human to human, I don't want you in pain.

1:10:59Jessica Stavale:And you don't

1:11:00Darin Olien:want me in pain not at all because if we're coming from pain we don't get anything done right right we don't get anything constructively done right potentially we cause more pain we do it overflows yeah that's what that's what the current matrix is about i agree that's what social media's algorithms are about yeah that's what media is about it's it's about division yeah division

1:11:22Jessica Stavale:is mass control and i teach this all the time in psychology you can't be controlled psychologically if we if you don't allow it correct but if we divide you we control you because now we're pitting you against and now you're not able to go into your rational mind we keep you in your emotional mind as i call it and you're driven by the emotion of why this is wrong and we're going to cut this down instead of that growth collaborative mindset but that is really how people are controlled it's mass control to create division yeah and listen going all the way back to

1:11:53Darin Olien:pain and sickness, if you're in pain and or sickness, you want to get out of that.

1:12:01Jessica Stavale:Yes. Oh my gosh, yes.

1:12:03Darin Olien:And so if we bring together tools and people that are of that same web mind, that go, hey, listen, we don't have to be. There's a lot of tools here. And with that, you free up energy, you free up space to then go, oh, I'm out of pain. Now what is my life?

1:12:22Jessica Stavale:what could I then create that's what I want for people right I I I think we can reorient this life

1:12:30Darin Olien:I agree and change the direction at which we believe to be on yes so I for me I have I've never been political per se but I am less and less and less and less and I am I don't give a

1:12:44Jessica Stavale:shit I don't talk about plug I'm not aligned with you I won't get into I don't want it because I

1:12:48Darin Olien:I don't, I, that's not, that's not a direction that's going to fuel my source of helping another person. I'm already clear on that.

1:12:57Jessica Stavale:Correct.

1:12:57Darin Olien:You know what I mean? So if I love what you said, because as we come together in a healthy way, healthy way, you want other people to, to be healthy and yeah.

1:13:07Jessica Stavale:And that energy overflows. Right. And you have to understand people project from what's inside of them. Hands down. I'm a person at peace. You're a person at peace. we may see something we don't like or mine may go wtf on some things but we're never going to go after that person we're not going to make effort to try to cut them down attack them make them feel bad and i know this is so hard for people to accept and understand but anybody going after somebody like that it's a projection of the chaos and what's living inside of them and it keeps that same thing it does because i don't why would i i don't want that energy in my life i may not see or agree with it, that's okay.

1:13:46Jessica Stavale:We're all allowed to be different. But I don't need to attack you for it. And that's really hard. That creates more division. But that's really hard for people to understand. Yeah. Well, it's a dick.

1:13:55Darin Olien:I interviewed this guy from Yale called, God damn it, I forget his name. We'll put it in the show notes. But he talked about a revenge cycle. And it's our whole legal system that actually is built upon it. And it produces addictive chemicals in the brain to keep that. So we get addicted to that victimization side of things. And so to break that cycle first helps. Let's get out of pain. Let's get out of some of those cycles. I'm just so stoked what you're doing.

1:14:29Jessica Stavale:Thank you.

1:14:29Darin Olien:And congrats on the book and the tools.

1:14:32Jessica Stavale:Thank you. And the device. The device goes into production finally. And I've honestly done this off my own back, like all by myself. So I think that there's power in that. like I didn't let it get taken from me when things were offered that way I believed in it so strongly what I've done and the impact it had on people that I just decided it can sit there and I will keep doing what I need to do and I think that's why I'm so vulnerable and raw with my story is to inspire others because to be able to do that while raising my daughter completely on my own and I will give credit I have amazing parents and sisters you know but otherwise everything's daily is me right so i do have a family support but to do all that and build this and run the practice and do the the vent the medical device and write the books like my heart is just in how do we impact people to truly create change and that's where i definitely agreed when you asked because you're so aligned with impacting humanity and people and that's where i stand too yeah so that that's it we

1:15:36Darin Olien:came together today physically which thank you for flying out here and doing this and then we amplify. Yes, I agree with that. So excited. Yeah, congrats on the book. Thank you. Because that'll be out by the time people listen.

1:15:51Jessica Stavale:By the time people listen you can buy it pre-sale. It'll be in your hands by November.

1:15:56Darin Olien:Way to create the tools literally and figuratively.

1:15:59Jessica Stavale:And the system works. It just delivers. And so we're going to have to set up two. I'm going to have to work on I want to give you that whole, that you experience it all and you'll, you'll never go back once you experience what I can teach.

1:16:12Darin Olien:I'm going to get those tools. I'm going to get whatever tools you have now. I'm going to take them on my trips.

1:16:16Jessica Stavale:Okay. You will. I have people, I have professional ballplayers that will send me little like videos between as they're kind of working it between or people, I have videos of people like, Oh, I keep this in my car. So after work, I can just release attention. I feel great when I get home because we are a go, go, go society. So it was creating something that allows ease, that feels good, that we can just do along our day because self-care, I think, is everything.

1:16:44Darin Olien:Yeah. And that consistency, when you don't have to go over here or get this person to do it, you can just be consistent and it isn't causing you more pain, which is something for me, my mindset. You know, you come from that. You just come from no pain, no gain and all of that it's still kind of like i gotta beat myself up in order to right i'm gonna say the opposite no well thank you for your time thank you for having me i mean the the the level of passion that you have and what you've put into this in in the face of going through your own trauma yes raising a child yes having a full-on practice full professional entrepreneur and then putting this stuff in the world clearly it's a gift thank you yeah thank you so much yeah such

1:17:38Jessica Stavale:an honor i'm really looking forward to what we do next yes we're doing it i agree with you okay All right, guys.