Dr. Matthew Nagra: The Internet's Biggest Nutrition Lies EXPOSED

33:22Darin Olien:So if there was one nutrient to focus on? It'd be fiber. But I find it kind of cheating, honestly, because fiber pertains to just plant foods in general. So you could be talking about fruits and veggies, whole grains. Like take your pick. Any of them are going to be good. Yeah, so if you focus on fiber the way you would have to get it. Yeah, exactly. Okay, everybody. Are you ready to upgrade your operating system? I know I am. I'm always game to do that. Not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. That's what we're doing over at Super Life Patreon. This isn't just behind-the-scenes membership.

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34:55Darin Olien:Join us at patreon.com forward slash Darren Olean. That's Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com forward slash Darren Olin, D-A-R-I-N-O-L-I-E-N. Join the movement, support the mission. Let's rise together. So that's one. Another route you could go is we have studies now looking at what's called the plant-based diet index. So basically, you get more points the more plants you eat, and you get kind of docked points the more animal foods you eat. and higher scores are associated again with all of these these similar benefits to what we see with fiber and then you can go further and there's what's called a healthy plant-based diet index which specifically scores healthy plant foods again the ones that we mentioned so that's another route and then one that i actually probably use more in my practice because people who i'm seeing are already generally eating relatively plant-based or at least interested in it and we're looking at where else can we make some changes is the animal versus plant protein data.

35:56So if we look at swapping just three to five percent of calories from animal protein, especially if it's red meat protein we're talking about with plant protein, which three percent of calories, that's going to be less than a serving a day. You see anywhere from like a 10 to 15 percent reduction in mortality risk. So a substantial benefit for what ends up being maybe four or five servings a week if you're eating it that regularly to begin with. That's a huge. Yeah, exactly. And that's a relatively small swap. So if you swap out some of the beef or pork or what have you that you're consuming with tofu, beans, lentils, lentil pastas are excellent.

36:31There's so many different options there. But just a little shift. You don't have to go all or nothing to reap some of the benefits.

36:36Darin Olien:What was your upbringing like? Why did you get into being a naturopath? What was the inspiration for you? And when was the click that was like, oh, it's plants? Yeah. When I was younger, I ate all the things. I ate a lot of McDonald's. I ate whatever you wanted. Where did you grow up? Qualcomm Beach, British Columbia. Oh, good. So off of Vancouver Island, a little small town. Beautiful. And my house was the one that friends would come to for all the snacks. Okay, so to give a little context. And I played all the sports. I was very athletic, but I still struggled with my weight management. I still had some issues like asthma that got pretty serious in my early teens.

37:20And it was around age 15 that I worked with a personal trainer, again, just in Qualcomm or just outside Qualcomm. And he really promoted more plant-based eating. And so it was through him that I started making some changes. When I was 15, I got rid of the dairy or at least most of the dairy in my diet. I reduced the sort of ultra-processed food intake or the classic ultra-processed food, sodas, potato chips, and so on. I started having a lot more fruits, veggies, smoothies, salads, and so on. And the weight started coming off. I was breathing easier on the soccer field.

37:51Darin Olien:All that inflammation started changing. Yeah, I was just feeling better. And that's when it sort of clicked for me, like, hey, I've been doing this for a few weeks, and I'm feeling pretty good. I'm going to keep going. And so I kept going with a mostly plant-based diet. Now, fast forward to university, and now I'm eating in the cafeteria, and limited options, and so on. And I started slipping back the other way. and by my second semester, I just realized, you know what, I'm not feeling as good as I was six months ago. And I want to feel like that again. And that's when I drew the hard line of I'm going 100 % plant-based, I'm going to stick with it, and I have ever since.

38:26And that's because for me, drawing the hard line is easier than giving a little bit of leeway. I find that for myself, if I say, oh, you know, Saturdays will go nuts or whatever, that's going to turn into Saturdays and Sundays. And then, you know, it's going to snowball. Whereas drawing the hard line just keeps me on track. Now, that same year, I ended up watching the documentary Earthlings, and that's where more of the animal rights aspect came in. And that's what ultimately keeps me 100 % plant-based to this day. Because even if I understand, you can have some animal products and still be very healthy.

38:59For me, it's not worth it for those reasons. And so that's what keeps me 100 % and has for now over 15 years.

39:07Darin Olien:Yeah, you know, there's something with integration. like both mentally okay i understand now from the science from your perspective and then the animals and this is making choices based on integration seems to be very powerful what i find right and like i didn't get into it also directly from the animal side but it does it's weird to say that because i want to be a vet as a kid but it was disassociated and i think that's for a reason environmentally like why earthlings exist is because they don't want you to understand those kind of things and the horrific situations that you're that you're supporting by buying you know this kind of thing so it's beautiful that you find the integrative side of it and then it's so as you kind of dug in and because i believe too like all in is better than even 99 on almost everything and i've most recently even with work and things i've decided was too i'm too busy so i'm gonna have them focus on it and it's weird when i actually go no i'm responsible for everything in my life so i'm going all in on everything it's a weird thing that i found that i have more energy to do everything when i don't just kind of give myself a little back door you know what i mean so i'm just saying that for for people because i know that maybe in our mind people going i don't know if i can go plant-based maybe just to start you give yourself that little out or that little pressure valve like oh i don't know if i can do that you know that whole thing of because it does take time but even in your state you were including more plants but a certain point when you gain more knowledge more awareness then you're like okay i'm good i can i can make this hard choice i think that's important for people to at least as a starting point um yeah so so getting to integrate and then when once you kind of dug into the research where was that like this point where you're finding this momentum and this like going wow this information is compelling and now it's it's almost like i get this visual of wind in your sails of like you made a choice and now the data is supporting you and and now you're on stage and you're speaking you know what i mean it's like the data didn't let you down as opposed to like the carnivore craziness the data is gonna let them down like it's not holding up so when was that point then you were like yeah the data is great and i'm gonna start sharing this with people actually i i think i i was wrong about some things when i first started really getting into plant-based um i was very much in the super strict whole foods plant-based camp where you know i maybe believe some things that i no longer believe today like a single drop of oil is going to be detrimental or you know some of those some of those arguments and and again yeah i was very young at the time.

42:25And it was through being disproven that I thought, oh, there's a lot more to this. And so that got me to dig in a lot more and into the research. And I guess at a point, I just started having a lot of fun with discovering things. Like I actually, when I dive into a study, if there's a new study that's making headlines and I'm thinking, oh, that sounds a bit odd, you know, let's see what's going on. And you figure out, oh, oh, it was because they looked at this specific demographic or, oh, they adjusted for that variable when they shouldn't have. It's kind of total nerd here, but kind of fun to uncover, oh, why are they getting that result?

43:03What is the reason that this study is showing something different than that study? And I just enjoy kind of doing that. And so it drives me to keep looking.

43:10Darin Olien:Have you ever been, like, to be non-biased, to look at studies, Have you ever been surprised by any animal-based study? Is there anything that you're like, huh, I didn't realize, or not. Maybe that's not, I don't know. But I think that to stay unbiased in a certain sense is interesting. To try to do it and let the data, that's my impression of you. let the data speak and let's discern and let's indiana jones this thing and see what's going on yeah i mean i i would say i try to check my bias as best i can like like as a as a vegan myself i have no problem saying that fish can be a part of a healthy diet i have no problem saying that certain like low-fat fermented dairy products can be a part of a healthy diet um i choose not to consume those at all obviously for the animal related reasons that we talked about earlier and the toxins.

44:09That's the whole thing. Right. Right. So there might have been a point where I believe like any amount is going to be problematic. But then when you look at like fish consumption and even a couple of times a week or something, oh, actually, that's associated with good outcomes. Not necessarily better than plant protein sources. Like you could swap those out for plant protein sources, which is what I do. Right. But I'm going to stop short of saying, hey, if you have any of that, you're in trouble. And I think that helps me to sort of check my bias and make sure that I'm presenting it as fairly as I can.

44:42Was there a point at which I was surprised by that? Maybe, but I can't recall exactly when that would have been.

44:47Darin Olien:No, but I think that's wonderful that you take that position and you set it up in a way that it's like, listen, if the data shows, but again, you can pull these strings and find a lot of different things. Like, is there meat, is there fish that is uncontaminated by the Western world? Not much, right? So no matter where it is, you know, you look at PFAS, for example, it's like it's in every human on the planet. It's like, so, you know, meat, fat, or bioaccumulators, So you have that whole thing. There's so many different ways to look at all that stuff. What's recently that you've looked at? What's the most compelling research you've found recently that has got your attention?

45:45Recently? That's a good question. Well, I should say I just authored a 40 ,000-word paper on seed oils responding to a lot of the claims that we hear about online. So, and especially combating the arguments of like, hey, choose butter instead, you know, that sort of thing. Right. So that, through that process, there were a lot of things that I learned. A lot of it I'd already known. But that was probably six months of just kind of writing, rewriting, reading, all of that, and finally getting it out there. And yeah, just about a month ago, it got out there.

46:24Darin Olien:Yeah. So what are some of the highlights? So what kind of seed oils in general? Yeah. Yeah. So seed oils are oils extracted from seeds, obviously. And there's things like canola, cottonseed, corn oil, safflower, sunflower, soybean, as some of the main ones. And there's this idea that they are refined and heavily processed. And I mean, that's true. They are refined in a way. But actually going through the steps of refinement, it's not so scary. you know the chemicals used yeah whatever well people hear the term i'll give you a great example bleaching people say oh it's bleached you know they think you're adding clorox to the oil or something like i'm not joking i've seen videos of people explaining it that way um but what's actually happening is they typically use bleaching clays uh from from natural clay mineral deposits like bentonite they'll activate it mix it with the oil and it'll absorb the colored pigments and impurities and then it's filtered out interesting and so it's not like once you understand how that's actually done it doesn't sound so crazy right so that's one of the things that comes up also learning a little bit more about like how much of the linoleic acid the omega-6 fat in seed oils is actually converted into arachidonic acid which is what people are concerned with because it could be inflammatory in some cases right it's about 0.12 to 0.26 percent that basically zero yeah yeah and so when you actually feed people a bunch of this linoleic acid or a bunch of seed oils and you measure the amount of arachidonic acid that ends up in their body, it's basically no change.

47:58And so there's a lot of these misconceptions out there. Now, I already knew based on the broader evidence base that it doesn't raise, they don't raise inflammation or inflammatory markers, but then diving into the nitty gritty of like, well, what happens with the arachidonic acid? How much is produced? It's like, wow, it's really little when you use these tracer studies. And that explains why we don't see a change in these

48:19Darin Olien:other markers yeah because that was always the thing of get the ratios of you know three six and nine even yeah uh get those balanced because our diet now is way too high in omega-6 um so that doesn't show up as because that was literally just it's amazing how things just become their own uh urban legend in a certain sense they just get passed around and then that's that's what i believed for years. Yeah, and I'll explain exactly why. Because if you take a ratio, and this has been done, of omega-6 to omega-3, and it's a high ratio, you generally see that that's worse than a low ratio. So if you have a lot of omega-6 and relatively little omega-3, it tends to be worse than if you had relatively little omega-6 but a lot of omega-3.

49:08Now, each individually, omega-6s and omega-3s tend to lower risk of cardiovascular disease. So how could that be, right? That doesn't make any sense given what I just said. The reason is omega-3s are just better. They're just more heart healthy than omega-6s. It's not that omega-6s aren't heart healthy. Omega-3s are more. And so it's like if you took resistance training, like weightlifting, and aerobic training, like jogging or cycling, both are good. The aerobic training is actually better for cardiovascular disease. So if you were to reduce your resistance training and up your aerobic training, your cardiovascular disease will go down.

49:40But if you were to lower your aerobic training and start lifting more weights, your disease risk would actually go up. So the goal there isn't to stop resistance training. The goal there would be to do more aerobic training. And it's the same sort of thing here. The way to lower that ratio, so to speak, isn't to lower your omega-6 intake. It's actually to raise your omega-3 intake.

50:00Darin Olien:Wow. Yeah, it's really interesting. There's data out of the UK where they actually measured the levels in the body and that they looked at the different ratios. Yeah, it's like... And so the whole chemicalized version of these seed oils, so across the board, there's not really these scary bleaching agents to worry about. No, definitely not. It doesn't show up. No. Wow. No, even when you look at like the solvents that they use to extract like hexane, they're either not present in the final solution. That's because hexane evaporates at really low temperatures or relatively low temperatures, I'll say.

50:42So all they do is they heat it afterwards, not to super high temperatures so it'll damage the oil, but they modestly heat it and then the hexane will evaporate away. Now, they might still have some residual, but the amounts are so low that it's actually been calculated out and you'd have to have about five kilograms or about 11 pounds of oil in a day to reach any sort of threshold. of potential concern. And I'm not going to recommend people guzzle oil either. It's super calorie dense. So if you're using a tablespoon or two, that's none. You're not getting any of those potential compounds.

51:11Darin Olien:Right. So you don't have to worry about the chemicalized scary seed oils. Yeah. And they're not causing this inflammatory cascade. And then the weird thing is these even restaurants show up with tallow And people are, I mean, the grossest, like, I can't literally believe that we are slathering tallow on our bodies and cooking our French fries in it. So what does the science say about this tallow? And why is this having its time? Because it's, again, it just comes back to sort of the buzzer. it's like, hey, it's natural, therefore it's better, whereas it's still high in saturated fat. We know it still raises blood lipids.

52:04Because of that, it's likely to raise cardiovascular disease relative to these other oils. What's really funny is I actually went on the new dietary guidelines website, realfood.gov. I'm going to make a video out of this. They have a section where it says, hey, ask AI about real food. So I plugged into their own AI tool, is beef tallow or seed oils healthier? And the first line it gives me is seed oils are healthier, which I thought was absolutely hilarious. and this is their own tool so i'm going to post a video of that but like like even yeah the the science is pretty clear on on you know saturated fats for the most part there are there are a couple exceptions like the saturated fat in chocolate and cocoa um it doesn't actually affect our blood lipids because it's a specific type of saturated fat uh but barring very few

52:47Darin Olien:exceptions like that because i slam my cacao yeah if there's one thing i don't look at the I mean, I eat very, very high levels. Like high percent? Yeah, 90 plus, you know. Okay. You know, but I don't even like, screw it. This is where I'm getting some saturated fat. So that's amazing. Yeah. Is it because, you know, we reduce things down, right? And nothing in nature is, you know, probably the problem with studies too is you don't see the cacophony of the polyphenols, the anandamides, all of the complexity of like, say, a cacao. Is it because of the other constituents, do we know? Or is it just the type of fat or all of the above?

53:38So yeah, with chocolate, like we actually have studies on the different fats, like isolated from chocolate. We're not talking in the context of chocolate. And we see that that particular type of fat, stearic acid that chocolate is rich in, it doesn't seem to raise LDL cholesterol or other blood lipids. However, when we look at chocolate consumption, it is actually associated with protective effects for cardiovascular disease. Now, it's dose-specific, so we're talking like a square of chocolate per day sort of thing, and that seems to be actually beneficial, and that's probably because of the polyphenols and whatnot in there.

54:13But there seems to be probably a level where all of a sudden risk might go up, especially if you're having a lot of the really sugary chocolates

54:19Darin Olien:and those sorts of things right like a hershey's as a real as a as as you know a bad example and do we know what those percentages are uh i mean not off the top of my head but yeah at least just you know i consume a 70 it's too sweet for me i'm i'm not into the 90 plus for me it's like 70 80 maybe you gotta be ready for it you know it's kind of one of those things i just keep it like a chew of tobacco or something i keep it in my but i don't know i just i over so many years of of it i just i kind of i love to to to taste the tannins um and the the incredible benefits of cacao um yeah that's very interesting the just nuances of it all are illuminating especially when you kind of can look at it.

55:11Darin Olien:Is there any active studies that you're involved in? Well, I am involved in a actually systematic review we're starting to get going. Now, this isn't a primary study, but a systematic review is a very rigorous way to conduct a review where we're planning to look at the data on plant-based diets and markers of biological aging. So I think that'll be probably pretty interesting. We'll uncover how much data there is. I mean, we see this stuff pop up but haven't gone through it systematically and see exactly you know how many studies which markers have been tested etc so we'll be doing that and then there's a few study ideas floating around that we're looking at there's plenty of reviews that i've published with with various co-authors but not not the primary studies yet yeah have you done any work with the dr garner out of stanford no but i met him for the first time uh yes no two days ago oh you did yeah met him uh at a conference down in san diego wonderful of course he goes on stage with flip-flops shorts and a hawaiian shirt to present as he as he does and he's just an absolute character but yeah it was great to finally meet him yeah what do you think of that twin study and some of his stuff around uh what he put together yeah i mean i think he's done plenty of good research going all the way down to back to diet fits like one of the first big ones he did looking at high carb and low carb, but designing them to be healthy.

56:33And I think that's the biggest thing that he does. So in his presentation, he actually went over the diet quality in this twin study where they compared, you know, one twin would adopt a plant-based diet and one would eat a more omnivorous diet, but both were designed to be very healthy. And so upping the diet quality. And what was really cool actually was even after they stopped providing the meals to the participants, they still maintained better diet quality. So giving them that initial kind of kick in the butt and a little bit of education allowed them to maintain that. And then, of course, we saw, as one would probably expect, the vegan group or plant-based group lowered their LDL cholesterol levels.

57:10If you're having more fiber, less saturated fat, that's sort of expected. But we didn't really see any significant downsides to the plant-based diet either, which is also notable.

57:22Darin Olien:What do some of the carnivore people poke? Do they poke at that study at all? Yeah, they try. So there's a couple things that I've seen. And it's been a minute since it was out. And I'm sure there were some more specific arguments that were brought up at the time. But one of the ones that they'll say is, oh, but the plant-based group lost a bit more weight. And well, yeah, that's one of the possible benefits of a plant-based diet is lower in calorie density. And of course, they're going to probably lose a bit more weight. Some people also argue that, well, the fiber wasn't matched. Well, obviously, if you replace some animal foods with plant foods, the fiber is not going to be the same.

57:59Because it's not there. Because, yeah, there's no fiber. So they're trying to poke holes, but I don't think they're very valid holes that they're poking because they're talking about things that are sort of inherent or a result of the plant-based diet. Now, something else they'll often point to as well. Christopher Gardner conducted a study that was funded by Beyond Meat in the past. Therefore, he's biased. And even if he is biased or even if he has received this funding in the past, can you point out issues with the study itself? Because if you can't point out issues with the actual methods of the study or the methodology, well, then it's kind of a red herring.

58:34I mean, every study needs some kind of funding one way or another. And the funny thing is Beyond Meat didn't even fund this particular study. It's a different one from years ago. So it's really grasping at straws there.

58:44Darin Olien:Right. Really stretching. Yeah. Going, well, because of a few years ago, you now are still tainted. Even though the research and his credentials and all of that stuff is so solid. Yeah, that's, you know, it's an interesting space, you know. And I, you know, if you were to, I guess, take me through your day in the life. what is your what is your preparation what is your because you're busy you're active practice you're slaying these studies what is your day in the life look like in terms of food and eating and exercise and everything else yeah so well i'll go through a work day yeah um first thing in the morning wake up have a coffee check my uh my preset pub med searches that i have set up as i'm Sipping on the coffee.

59:47What does that look like?

59:48Darin Olien:What do you mean? So on PubMed, you can make an account. And within your account, you can set up searches. So I have one search specific to plant-based nutrition. I have one specific to macronutrients. So anything that comes up, you're able to get it right away. Like whatever is published or whatever showed up on PubMed that day. I have the same thing for different fats and proteins. That warms you up. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, sometimes it's overwhelming and I can't get through it. But if there's a handful of things, I'll scroll through them. I'll see what's interesting and I'll save for later.

1:00:13So that's kind of first thing. now once I or for breakfast I might have oatmeal I might have a smoothie kind of depends on the day but something like that and then I'll go off to work and at work I don't I don't specifically plan breaks into my schedule so you know between patients I might have a protein shake or something unless if I do have a break usually I spend that making a video for socials and and then once I get home from work in the afternoon because I start early I usually go to the gym at that point so I'll have a little snack go to the gym and the snack might be just some fruit or a piece of whole wheat toast with peanut butter or something like that right um go off to the gym workout come back make uh make sort of I kind of have like two dinners I feel so maybe like an early little dinner or a late lunch whatever you want to call it uh just the way my schedule works yeah um so I'll have something it might be uh if I didn't have a smoothie in the morning I might have just like a really big smoothie with protein powder ground flax seeds I like to throw hemp seeds in there frozen blueberries bananas some greens mix it all up have that and and then at this point is usually where I'm doing some of the work that I can do from home so if I'm writing a new review paper with again one of my co-authors like David Goldman usually sends me stuff over I'll go through it I'll make edits and so on and then in preparation for when my partner gets home from work, I will then make dinner.

1:01:41Now we alternate depending on if I'm working late because some days I have a late shift and vice versa. But on a day where I work in the morning, my day to make dinner. And so usually something like a stir fry, do brown rice or quinoa, make up a bunch of veggies. I try to mix up the sauces. Tofu is usually in there. And that'll kind of be the rest of the food. And then just chill for a couple hours before bed.

1:02:07Darin Olien:you know there's something yeah there's something with making food you know what i mean like interacting with food especially with your loved ones and stuff like that there's i think bring that back more yeah create some more time for that yeah and in terms of your workout what is that typically like um so i'm i'm a soccer player i have been forever um so yeah since i was like four years old or whenever you could start you know um and so i'll have that walk soccer yeah learn to walk yeah yeah exactly pretty much yeah um and i would uh if i have a soccer game that'll be my workout i do that i'm on two teams typically through most of the year so a couple games a week maybe a practice uh and then on the other days i'll usually lift um so if i'm doing um say more of a lower body core kind of day that'll include squats usually pretty heavy squats that's my most impressive lifts so whenever i share it on socials you know i'll throw that out there what do you do what do you um i'll do reps at 335 and i weigh about 155 so yeah yeah i have some videos of that if people want to you know i'm not lying about it wow um so like what's that dude's name uh lane but what's his name lane norton yeah is it lane the power lifter uh he's a nutritionist he's He's competed in power.

1:03:27Darin Olien:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think he's a strong dude. Yeah. He's pretty common sense stuff. Yeah, I mean, we disagree on some things for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Does he want to have a debate? We've chatted about it a little bit, somewhat recently. Yeah. I've definitely, you know, thrown some critiques his way, and he's responded and that sort of thing. Does he respond with kind of respect and stuff? um well we have primarily like private conversations about most that we haven't made it like public and yeah we had a good conversation i want to say it was a few months ago maybe four or five months ago when i put out a video and he wanted to talk about it you know because i was responding to something he said and so on and it was fine it was cordial like no problem uh funny enough we were having that conversation while i was in the gym we were going back and forth but i remember that um but yeah uh you know i'd love to have a conversation with him at some point about some of his takes on like red meat or animal protein and that sort of thing so hopefully at some point that can happen um but yeah so i'll do the the kind of lower body stuff as i mentioned squats will be a big part of it uh sometimes deadlifts hip thrusts all that kind of stuff um throwing some core and then for upper body it's kind of pretty standard stuff you know bench pull-ups uh so what your your strength isn't going down sounds like it's definitely not yeah yeah yeah i mean that's just uh it's it's again it's so interesting how these these things get thrown out there and it just doesn't hold up yeah yeah um what's your uh what like i know that you because you know the book publishing thing and like getting people to get this message out there's there's um social media there's youtube like there's talks like what do you think is the best your the best way for you to exercise your full potential to get this stuff out yeah i mean i think there's multiple avenues and i'm trying to expand the avenues in which i do it like so for example i started youtube after predominantly doing instagram for a while and so um i'll share my clips there and that's growing pretty well um would love to get a book out at some point and then that'd be another avenue to to spread with perhaps a different audience.

1:05:45Of course, there'd be some overlap. I'm now starting to get a lot more of these speaking engagements like this medical conference. So it's not just a plant-based event or whatever, but it's actually a medical conference attended by medical doctors and dieticians and so on where I'm able to get this information out to them and then they're able to get it out to their patients so it can grow from there. And so I don't know that there is one particular avenue, but I'm basically just trying to find more ways that I can get it out there. And of course, you have me on here. It certainly helps with that as well.

1:06:16Darin Olien:Yeah, yeah. Well, we want the truth out. And we want people to make informed decisions and empower people. And again, I love not needing to kill something to thrive. And I spent 15 years superfood hunting and finding herbs and nuts and fruits around this planet and getting to formulate and stuff. and i said listen i have i had an unfair advantage i told people i got to eat and expose myself to the highest nutrient dense food on the planet however we can grow it in our garden we can you ever had doug evans on you ever talked to doug no i haven't i i know of him but i haven't spoken with him yeah yeah like he'll go you know dr fahey on and the whole uh uh glucoraphanins and the sulforaphane activation of broccoli sprouts you can chop it ahead of time you know let it sit all that kind of stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and so um yeah it's just some powerful assignment you've oh yeah simon hill super well he's the best yeah he's the best um so yeah this information needs to get out and common sense and i let's let's surge the new world of this common sense stuff and the nutrient density that's the OG of it all, our plants.

1:07:49Darin Olien:Thank you for your time, brother. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. It's a great conversation. Yeah, man.