Frank Zummo: "No Plan B" — A Rock Star's Guide to Relentless Persistence

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26:55Frank Zummo:I became known as the drummer that could jump in, fill in, save the day, which is an amazing thing to be known for. That's what I got known for is this drummer in LA. And I did that with multiple artists, but I hadn't done it in over a decade because I was touring the world with Sum 41 and I was comfortable. That was my gig. We did multiple records, toured the world a million times over a decade. and then as some 41's ending we just did our final tour that wrapped last year that's when it was like what's next you know i've worked so hard to get here to play arenas to be at this level and now it's over like i i don't want it i'm not done this only inspired me more but it's very hard to get in a band that's at this level like all of that fear anxiety came in right when we were at our last show, which it ended in the greatest way.

27:47Frank Zummo:We got inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame and played the Juno Awards, which is like the Grammys of Canada. We closed the whole show. And like, peace out. Done. Wow. But right when I got to Vancouver, I immediately had like a mini panic attack being like, this is over tomorrow. I don't know what's next. Like all of that. And you know what I did? I put on XPT breath work. there's some for anxiety and I knocked out went to bed woke up in the morning and this band who emails me backstory is I go to Australia last December 24 with Sum 41 it's our final Australian tour we get there so far to get there shipped all of our equipment band, crew we're moments away from heading to soundcheck for the first show our singer's not well Doctors come check him.

28:43Frank Zummo:Don't like what they hear. Bring him to the ER. He's got pneumonia. Tour's done. You can't fly with fluid in your lungs. And in Australia, you have to fly from show to show to show. You're not on a tour bus like Europe or American touring. So, okay, we went all the way here. We're done. And I was just like, well, we're still here for a couple days trying to figure out travel to get back. I was like, I'm going to do drum workshops. Like, I'm here to work. I'm not going to sulk in the hotel room or go to the bar and be unhealthy. Like, I came here to work and I'm going to make things happen. Booked a couple workshops.

29:19Frank Zummo:I'll get. The band that took our spot to headline the festival on the show day, their drummer bailed. Had to go home. Don't know what happened. Wow. So they're like, hey, Sum 41 canceled. Is Frank still in the country? And if he is, would he come to breakfast with us right now? I go to breakfast with these guys. They're freaking out. They're like, we don't deserve to take your space and headline this festival. And now our drummer left and we are about to cancel. And I'm like, all right, we got less than seven hours before you hit the stage. Give me a live recording. I'm going to stay in my hotel rooms to showtime.

29:54Frank Zummo:And like that mechanism that hadn't been turned on kicked in again. And just the adrenaline. And then I delivered and it went well. I did three big festivals with them. and I knew at that moment like things are going to be okay for the future because I just did this this band you know they're probably going to go back they they went back they started with their drummer again I thought it was a done deal and then fast forward to wake up in the morning on the last day of the Sum 41 show they go our drummer officially left will you come and do festivals with us and I've been I've been touring with them since uh the summer and it's like a whole new career this band is blowing up it's been the biggest production biggest tour that i've been on and it's a whole new thing they're younger than me and they're just like on fire now it's so fun wow but like put in a high pressure situation delivered so it's like that old stuff kicked back in again which is great at 47 years old to be like shit i could still do this you know And it's a very demanding, hard show in the best way because I've got to work.

31:06Frank Zummo:I can't. There's no autopilot. It's not one of those kind of things. And it's been incredible to have this. But the best part about this group is they all just started having families. So they're not going to be this touring machine. And they don't want it to turn into a job. So it's like we do tours, but there's family breaks. Tour legs aren't as long. because I come from the punk rock world. It's like we're out for five weeks, go home for a couple days, boom, back out. And it took a very hard toll on my family. You know, my boys are 7 and 10 now. They need a dad. And when my wife's alone for four or five weeks straight with dad gone, she started a learning center for homeschool families.

31:50Frank Zummo:Wow. And she is running the school, homeschooling my boys. We've got a puppy. We've got a house. I mean, it's a lot for a single parent. So mad respect to single parents because it's a lot. So, you know, I worked really hard on just finding ways to stay connected with the boys while I was gone. And then it's like when I'm home, I have to be home and present. And it's hard when the work machine and as artists, you're always. But it's like it's something, of course, I battle with. but like I'm recognizing and working on it and seeking the tools to, you know, constantly do therapy with one of the XPT coaches.

32:33Frank Zummo:She's a therapist as well who I felt really comfortable with. She's my therapist. You know, my plate's full. And then like something that I'm really excited about like this year, what I want to really work hard on is, you know, Kristen Umler, the Art of Fear book. Oh, yeah. I read her book a couple years ago and it it really had an impact on me and I listed it as a Resource sent her a copy of the book. We started chatting. I didn't know her. I just reached out cold and said hey, I listed your book She was hit me right back, which is great But I was like and by the way, do you do like I know she does a lot of big fear ski camps Which I'm not a skier.

33:07Frank Zummo:That's not what I do. But it's like you do one-on-one. She's like absolutely so that's something I really want to dive into more and learn more about because you know, it's It's this emotion that we've been told wrong how to deal with. There's no fear. There's nothing to be afraid about our kids when they're going to bed. Yeah, it is. It's scary. It's real. It's scary. The fear is another emotion, just like joy and sadness and all that. And it's like we've just been told, like, when I start my workshops with the kids to break the ice, because they're all so nervous they're going to play with me and meet me, and I just want to, like, break the ice.

33:45Frank Zummo:and I'll be like, hey, we're going to have fun with fear today. It's scary. You're getting up there with me. You're playing these songs with the actual artist. Let's just have fun with fear today. And it just kind of breaks the ice. And it's a whole new twist on something that I feel like we've been wrong programmed on. My kids were, I was doing it when they were scared to go to sleep at night. I'm like, nothing to be scared about. It actually is. In the dark, alone, the sounds, everything. you know and I I apologized to the kids and I was like I'm sorry I told you that you know like it is scary and like when we go to the the water park I'm like you guys want to have fun with fear today you want to go on these crazy rides and if they say no I don't push them I don't bully them cool no no worries we'll do what you're comfortable doing so it's just been great to learn so I want to go like on a deeper dive on that and learn a bit more because I get it sometimes if I'm not executing things properly on stage and I get in my head and then the fight or flight and fear kicks in and then I'm done.

34:46Frank Zummo:Yeah. I can't execute things properly. You know, it's a paralysis

34:50Darin Olien:that fear can take over, but also it's healthy because it's there for a reason, right? Like with the kids, you're not pushing them, but then you're still, you're still moving over here. They get to observe you they get to oh okay it's not so fearful and lean into it and all these different ways and that's like what we all can do it's like okay there's a fear up is this a rational fear am i going to fall off a cliff and die or is this an irrational fear like where is this coming what's the source of it you know and investigating that i think it's a it's a i think it's a cacophony of huge possibility, especially in our society, because the amygdala is hell.

35:32Darin Olien:You just, you can scroll and just have, oh, I'm now I'm insecure. And now I'm fearful of stepping out. I'm fearful of showing up. And, but the thing that kind of resonates really true from your story, uh, when your lead singer went down and he said, I'm here, I'm already here. Let's make an opportunity. And so you started doing a bunch of stuff and contributing. And I think that when you have a possibility, you take action, you create greater sense of probability, right? So you went forward and then you were available in the universe for that to occur. Whereas you could have you know went into yourself fearful anxiety shit we're done what's gonna i'm gonna fly back home i'm but but you didn't do that you stayed open and you didn't let it consume you and then the possibility like a radio signal hit you and next thing you know your whole career takes

36:42Frank Zummo:off in a completely different direction an unfortunate situation changed gave me a whole new gig and like I did put it out into the universe this is what's crazy when I was going to the city in Melbourne where the first show was we were traveling there I'm at the airport I'm seeing all the other bands it's a festival you all travel together all the big bands and all that and like as I'm putting my stuff on the conveyor belt at TSA I'm literally like man wouldn't it be with all these artists here if somebody something happened and I got to fill in like I put it out in the universe. And the next day it happened.

37:19Frank Zummo:Wow. And that's like, like my whole life is just about tunnel vision, staying on your path. And that's what I tell these kids. You could do this too. I'm no different. I just stayed on that path. I didn't stop working on my craft. There was no B plan. I didn't learn anything else. I didn't know anything else. Like when I moved to California, I was just like 25 years old. I'm going to try this. So I know my deathbed. I tried I always want to be out here. The music industry, everything I love is here. And my goal was to not go home because I had so many friends that would come out here and get discouraged.

37:56Frank Zummo:Bands would fall apart. Their records would not get put out. And they'd come home discouraged and jaded and go back in the cover band scene I was in. And they were miserable, alcoholics. And I'm just like, note to self, don't repeat that cycle. you know so that was kind of my motivation as hard as things were i mean it was rough when i came out here and it was all part of the story it just made me appreciate it i'm glad that success and all that happened later in life because i can appreciate it so much more than when you're young you don't even know what's going on you're still not even mentally there yet so i i appreciate it and i want to have this so i constantly work at it and don't ever take anything for granted because it's just kind of the way I'm programmed.

38:43Frank Zummo:And I think it's just like the New York hustle, the way I grew up and all that. But California definitely mellowed me the fuck out. I was definitely a high-strung New Yorker when I got out here.

38:54Darin Olien:Yeah. I mean, you want things to happen and you go for it. But life is like, it's not A to B. It's all over the place. So what do you think the, you know, because there's talent, you have to have talent. You're practicing. I mean, it's funny you said it right away that you still have a drumming teacher which is wild right the top of your game and you still you still are a student so you know when you're in LA and things aren't working out where are you going inside of yourself to continue

39:30Frank Zummo:you to fight and go for any opportunities go on every audition go to you know i mean i i had serious i had to pay rent an apartment in koreatown so i was washing cars i had a guy he would of course in la they have services where people come to your house and wash your car so i'm going to rock stars houses and washing their wow really expensive cars and as kind of degrading as it was, it was more fuel to be like, I want to live up here. I want a car like this. Like, you know, my car. Yeah, this is my car. Seriously, it was more fuel to just like, I want to win, but I'll do what I got to do to pay this bill.

40:13Frank Zummo:So I have a place to live. And like, my parents weren't wealthy. And I didn't want them to have to like, I didn't want to call them and say, can you lend me money like that? I had too much pride. Like even when I was young, and my mom would give me 1520 bucks to go to the movie theater, it just felt icky to me for some reason. So I always worked mowing lawns, you know, raking leaves, whatever I had to do. So I could just, it's my money. I worked for it. I can buy what I have to buy. I knew my parents, you know, weren't, they worked hard. My dad had a lot of jobs when, when I was young. My mom was a stay at home mom until we were a little bit older than she worked in the schools.

40:52Frank Zummo:But yeah, it was just uh it was just that motivation of like don't go back and don't fail but I moved to being a singer-songwriter act that basically was like she's gonna put together a band the rest is history it didn't work out but I knew because at the showcases we were doing all the labels and industry were coming to me and talking to me about so I was like okay what what my vibe is what I'm doing, it's resonating, so it might take some time. And, you know, I met two brothers early on, and we started the Street Drum Corps, which turned into, I did it for 20 years, turned into like a Blue Man Group stomp type company, where that's how I made it first here.

41:41We came up with this punk rock, playing on found objects, three guys going wild.

41:47Frank Zummo:And the way that I worked and paid my bills, we got hired at Six Flags theme park for the summer and fall as in Gotham City. We were banging on pots and pans and all that. That was my job. Best job ever. I love theme parks. I love rides. I love drums. I'm with two dudes. So that's how we started building routines and all that. And then we started getting into the touring world and we started playing with legendary bands and touring with them to enhance their show as this hype thing

42:21Darin Olien:to open the show as a set of doing that but in on tours exactly and then it turned into like we're

42:29Frank Zummo:getting multiple offers to be at different theme parks and private events so then we started hiring and training drummers because there's a million drummers in LA who need work right and then other theme parks and other states started um wanting to have the same show so i would fly and train and hire local talent we i mean we it was crazy we had a big vegas residency with all these massive rock stars like we built this thing over 20 years and then it got to a point where i had my own family and it was a big machine. I was doing it all and it became unhealthy and I wasn't happy and it wasn't good for my mental health.

43:11Frank Zummo:And I just said, okay, we've checked all the boxes I want to do. It's time for me to step away. I was already in some 41. I had a family and I just told my partners, I don't want anything. Take it, do whatever you want with it. It's good for me. I'm just gonna go well and I want the freedom to do anything else so I don't want some kind of payout I don't care I don't know it's not about that and it was great so I did that and then I was playing with all these other artists throughout that and then it finally when I got in some 41 that was like the big I'm in the band like that's when things really took off but it was like it's a grind to get there but it's it makes it all even more appreciative when when things happen because you worked for it you appreciate it more it's all that yeah and that's

43:58Darin Olien:i mean that's that's the thing it's hard it's hard to tell people that you know but but the accomplishment of working hard and then getting somewhere and then or not getting somewhere and being disappointed and going okay well course correct uh map needs to change the course because I took a different turn. But all of that is building this inner strength, inner confidence. And I'm no expert on the sociological fabric of society right now. But if there's anything, I mean, I came from blue collar Minnesota, working hard, picking beans, throwing hay bales, shit like that, doing whatever you needed to do.

44:45Darin Olien:having a paper route, buying a BMX bike. But all of those built this strength of, because I, similar to you, my family didn't have a lot of, we weren't poor, but we didn't have a lot of money. But I didn't want to be under my parents. I didn't want to ask my dad. My dad would bust my balls for money all the time in college. He's like, prove it. Why do you need money? Well, you misspent them, like, oh, for God's sakes. Right? So I just figured out like maybe early on I grabbed too many credit cards and maxed them out because I didn't understand how to manage anything. But I really resonate with the persistence, right?

45:33Darin Olien:Because I've never had a traditional path either. It's kind of like, and that's why when I hear that you're just putting yourself on the road of probability that's greater than someone who's just sitting back with excuses or stopping their dream, they're not getting that call. They're just not going to get it. But you're constantly putting yourself in that position. Plus, now with your health and, I mean, fucking rock star. There's no part of that that says healthy, right? So you have to go and find your own way. Yep. Even within this massive ecosystem. And now having, you know, the highlights of your career even happening now.

46:27Darin Olien:It just begs to, there's so many different aspects of the character that screams from your book and screams from your path that I think is so powerful in how you've conducted yourself. We're never perfect. But God dang, persistence is a really strong thing, especially when you're like, I know what I want and I'm going to keep going.

46:56Frank Zummo:that's just the way it's it's just it's i don't even it's nothing you think about you just do it's just how your dna your you know everything and i've just stayed on that path through this whole journey and it's like that's the takeaway i get asked a lot lately what i've changed

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50:08Frank Zummo:I think from the book, from when I'm doing my workshop events, it's like some reason, whatever you want to do in life. You don't have to be a musician. Whatever it is, whatever you're passionate about, just be passionate about it and follow it through and don't stop. Tunnel vision. And it'll happen. It's that simple. And I'm proof. Like these kids, they see you on, you know, hear you on the radio, see you on these big stages and think it's like all about all this other stuff. And it's like, it's not. It's just about staying true, creating something great with other humans because I'm not a solo artist.

50:44Frank Zummo:I'm with a group. And like the narrative definitely on the wellness is changing. You know, the it's it's great to, you know, especially all the drummers that I'm on text groups with and all that stuff. Like we're all back and forth. What ice bath did you get for tour? What coach are you using? Like we what protein are you taking? Like the narrative has changed, which is so great. Like, you know, all the drummers that I look up to and I work, they're all in top shape, too. They're bringing trainers on the road, spending their money on that stuff, not meaningless garbage. You know, like it's great to see that narrative changing because it was the rock star and the was a different way.

51:28Frank Zummo:And like I'm even hearing from friends that I have there in the alcohol business. Like if you notice, everyone's doing non-alcoholic beers now, every company, because the whole generation now is not drinking and getting healthier. So they're trying to survive. So they're doing non-alcoholic beers, which there's so many great ones now. There used to not be. So there's a big market for that now. So it's like the narrative is definitely changing. And I love that, at least on social media, you're seeing all of this stuff now in your feed all the time. And it's great because it's for health. It's not just crap.

52:01Frank Zummo:And, like, I love that you and I came up in a time where if we were getting bullied, it was at school. And that was it. Right. And someone had to deal with, are we going to have an argument? Are we going to have a fist fight? Now, everybody's a tough guy on their device because they don't have to see you face to face. And that's one thing that these kids are dealing with. They're getting bullied at school. They're getting bullied on social media. And I have to just tell them, you can't let that break you. You can't read into it. You can't engage with it. If people like it, great. But don't do it for the comments.

52:33Frank Zummo:Don't be authentic. If you believe in this video of you represents you and your art, that's all that matters. And if people like it, great. If they don't, fuck them. You know, it's like it's not what it's about. And so many people are programmed. It's all about the likes. And, you know, I just had a whole conversation yesterday. The whole music industry now, bands used to have to go and play clubs and showcase for record labels. Now that doesn't really exist anymore. It's like, how many followers do you have? How many? That's weird. But what does that really mean? Are they going to actually sell tickets and people are going to go buy tickets and buy their music?

53:09Frank Zummo:It's just it's a and I'm not some dinosaur that's saying it's the way that I went my time. Like I get it. Things change. They evolve. It's working for certain artists and whatnot. But like I love that I didn't come up with the social media to get a record deal. We had to go out and work for it and play a show. And we had to get in the garage and suck for months and years. and really work it out and like become artists. And now it's just, it's so different. And, you know, kids have it pretty hard. And that's what I'm there to just like let them know, like we all get it too, you know, it's just.

53:47Darin Olien:Yeah, I love that that, you know, by you doing your workshops and helping kids, you're also getting this insight that we didn't have. Right. Because it doesn't stop. Like we could go home, that bully was at least, he's not going to come home with me, and maybe tomorrow I got to punch him in the head. But now it doesn't shut off, and it's 24-7, and algorithms work for us or absolutely against us. And these kids, and so you must be learning not only yourself to help them, but for your kids as well. Like you're getting an interesting view directly from them, like what their stressors are. Right.

54:36Frank Zummo:And my kids are coming to these events and hearing me talk about all this too. So it's like they're hearing these organic conversations. And lucky that my kids are little now and they go to a school with my wife there to oversee what's going on. And it's not just this massive school where we send our kids off and we don't know what's going on. So we can still be involved. you know, to a degree. But like, you know, I watch it happen when they do sports. They'll come home and say wild things that one of the older kids said on the bench, you know, stuff like that. We've had to navigate, you know, being a parent's definitely the hardest thing ever.

55:12Frank Zummo:The most amazing, but just the constant worrying research, our decisions, like all of that stuff. And, And, you know, I'm so blessed that I have a very supportive wife of what I do. It's very hard on the family, which, you know, when we were just without kids, yeah, we miss each other. But my wife wasn't like, you know, she can handle it. And she thought she'd be able to handle it with kids. And it's hard. It's hard, especially when they're really missing their dad and they're acting out. And she's like my oldest son. I'm his person. Right. So it's hard for my wife when I'm his person. So, you know, now it's like I'm going to bring them out more.

55:58Frank Zummo:They've I mean, it's great. They've been able to come around the world with me and see places that, you know, I didn't get on a plane until I was out of high school. You know, so it's like we drove my family. We drove to Florida and that was about it, you know. but that's what's great about my hard work it gets them to see the world and we make it educational because they're for you know projects for school we just went to London they did a whole project on learning and they're educating me I've been in this place a million times I didn't know about all these things and we made you know we get guided tours so we're learning about the history and why this building is here and all this stuff so that's been a really fun family thing that we've been doing.

56:40Frank Zummo:You know, within the last year, the boys have been to France, Italy, Toronto, and London. Wow. And it's great because like my job gets to bring them there. And that's the best part, experiencing that with my family and that my kids love it. They love the music. They love traveling and they love flights and all this stuff. And we make it educational and fun. And that's been great. But like, it's how do I have them out more? Well, they're so loving what I do Because who knows, one day they may not want to come out or they might not be interested. And like there's those years that, you know. They need to reject almost maybe.

57:16Darin Olien:Right. You know, the teenage years. I'm like, I got to find my own identity and screw you dad. Like hopefully that doesn't happen. No, hopefully not. But like learning, I love it because it's not families over here necessarily. Sometimes it is. but you're able to bring them in and the aspect of learning about an area through the lens of your children is rad. They get to live and learn in the real world, which, God, I wish that the school systems would change a bit because putting young kids in a desk and trying to have them regurgitate shit. At a certain point, that's just not healthy for them.

58:12Darin Olien:A good friend of mine has two young boys. The boys were literally escaping from the school, climbing the fences like, we're out. So they literally were like, we're trying, we're trying, and then they felt bad, and the parents were like, what are we doing wrong, and our kids are crazy. No, maybe they're just normal. And so they created a little, they're just homeschooling. They're like, we can't do this. Kids are thriving.

58:36Frank Zummo:Right. Right. That's our goal as parents. Whatever way we have to get there, and that's what so many parents will come up to me at the workshops and say the same thing. My kid can't stand school, this and that. I'm like, okay, the world has changed enough now where there's enough different ways. Try and see which one works. Because at the end of the day, we want our kids to have an education. When I was coming up, I didn't know, you know, we didn't know of anything else. And I couldn't stand school. and I'm probably not as educated as I should be if I would have actually enjoyed and asserted myself and learned this stuff a lot more.

59:12Frank Zummo:And now seeing how my kids are, and of course they have their days. They don't know anything else. They've never gone to a day of public school in their life. They don't know any other way. And I'm like, I try to tell them, you have no idea. This is so great for you. but you know every time we get them tested to see where they're at they're always above what they're at which is so great so I'm just like my wife goes down the rabbit hole and I she has the time to do it and that's her passion I just trust her with it with the the wellness and the doctors everything with our children it's all she puts in the work and it's great to have a partner that is on that, you know, page.

59:57Frank Zummo:And she's helped me a lot too when I started having body issues and, you know, she would found out about turmeric for me. I didn't know about, changed my life. You know, it's like just she's... Turmeric. Like, I didn't know what a turmeric, I didn't know what it was. I'd never, it was not my vocabulary. So she's really helped me. And then, you know, having all the people, I mean, I've reached out to you and asked you about, you know, what do you recommend for this? And it's just great to know about it and then to pass it on. Sure. Yeah. Like I remember I took your book on tour and I'm reading this before bed at night.

1:00:35Frank Zummo:And some nights I'm just like, I don't, I'm afraid to get out of my bunk.

1:00:39Darin Olien:Oh shit. What am I sleeping in? What's my pillow made out of? What am I breathing? What's my underwear? What's shampoo?

1:00:46Frank Zummo:A hundred percent. Like it, it was, and then it's like, you said it best. just start slowly yeah and i started introducing like bite toothpaste the glass bottles on tour instead of tubes of plastic garbage easy started there and then they make a bunch of projects uh stuff like floss and deodorant started there and then um like caldera lab for all the face wash and all that kind of like started going down all that we just got like i said the um the pots and pans from our place our place yeah yeah la based yeah yeah they're great i mean i'm cooking steaks

1:01:24Darin Olien:and eggs on them and it's like the easiest cleanup dishwasher and yeah i made pancakes last night for supper and i poured i poured i made like i have a shakeology and i i made like a thick syrup i mean it's basically protein powder and some greens and that was my amazing it was so good but i use the pan. And, you know, and, you know, when you, when you get to integrate this stuff, there's something about it for me. I mean, I'm weird, but the more I integrate, the more power I get, right? The more strength, the more in tune. And then those things become habits. And then you go, okay, I'm going to change this out.

1:02:06Darin Olien:I'm going to change this out. And next thing you know, you've created your own ecosystem for yourself. And, and I love that the crew and stuff starts It starts to, without pushing, it starts, because they see, they're just used to their bubbles. They go, oh, you can do that? Oh, you can do that? Oh, you can bring an ice bath on tour? And oh, I don't need it being a tube. I can use these bites. There's so many, and it's convenient. It's non-tax. It just keeps adding up.

1:02:38Frank Zummo:And now getting into a new group, they're German. They're all German. The band's based out of Germany. Oh, wow. and I'm coming in just being me and it's been really amazing too and I don't say anything I don't you know like as far as all that I just do me and now watching the band all of a sudden we're all going to the gym we're you know we all took a ferry we had to take a ferry from one country to the other sauna on the bus on the on the boat the whole band did sauna like watching everybody literally change and we're all working out together um everyone's you know jumping in the ice bath and stuff now it's like it's cool to see that influence and then like backstage it always be like vibey candles and i years ago i went to i've got a diffuser and every one of my travel things even my bunk i have a usb one that i plug in um and the guys are like we love the smell of this dressing room you know i use thieves oil just in a diffuser and they literally just hit me up like we're missing that smell what is it where do we get it and i'm like just hit up young living there around the world get a diffuser and thieves you know it's like but like it's just cool to see the influence without preaching you don't want to be preachy you want it to be organic um but it's it's it's a fun that's like what i hobby geek out yeah it's like what new tricks, new hacks.

1:04:03Frank Zummo:Like I'm doing a book like workshop event in Sacramento on Saturday and the plunge company is from there. So I've become good friends with them and they're going to come out and do an activation for these kids, whoever wants to jump in the plunge. And then the coolest thing is we're going to gift 25 of the pop-up plunges to the kids that I jam with, which is amazing that they're 25. Yeah. They're going to give, because there's going to be about that many kids I perform with. Holy cow. So the company's like, yo, we're going to gift like, they're like 150 bucks each, the inflatables that I have on tour.

1:04:34Frank Zummo:Which is like, just for your wellness journey, here's a little. That's amazing. And even if they use them as just a pool, like, you know, cold water, like something, you know. Sacramento gets really hot in the summer. Yeah. So that's been cool. Like they organically jumped on when they started, you know, when they read the book and all that. And, you know, that's the first thing. When we moved to the country, I was like, okay, I don't have Laird's house to go to anymore. Or I need to get all this stuff. So instead of putting our money into, let's update the kitchen or the bathroom. Who cares about that stuff?

1:05:06Frank Zummo:It's part of that stupid car that I was polishing. Nah, screw it. Let's actually, Frank's got a drum room for the first time in a house that he owns. Let's get it sound treated properly because at the time the boys were babies sleeping at home. My wife was working from home. Did that. Affordable. Then outside of my studio door, let's lay a concrete slab. Let's get a Nordic sauna and let's get a plunge. tub. My whole family uses it. My wife will have the girls over. They'll do girls night and do recovery. Dude, my kids get in and my oldest son, he's always on a mission. He's like, dad, I did eight minutes last time.

1:05:41Frank Zummo:I'm doing 10 today. And I'm like, dude, you know, the health effects are like three and a half minutes to eight is the same. Like you don't need to do that. No, no, I'm doing it, dad. And they're in there. Like I didn't do my first ice bath. You might've even been there the first time i did it crazy experience i go to i did gabby's podcast that she had with neil strauss back in the day neil again another no yeah shout out to neil like

1:06:04Darin Olien:all these barrel way back yeah that's how i met neil brought me in because i knew him from the

1:06:09Frank Zummo:rock and roll world he brought me in met gabry of course we bonded and then she invited me to come train with y 'all she's like we do heat and i just i don't really know what that means I show up and like Mark Roberts throws a bench to the bottom of the pool he swims to the bottom he's doing bench presses under the water I'm like what the fuck is going on I'm in the sauna dying because it's the hottest thing ever and then they're like just go in the ice tub sitting there

1:06:35Darin Olien:just a normal thing

1:06:37Frank Zummo:I head over there by myself I immediately get in there and go into panic Laird's screaming in the pool dunk or I'm gonna dunk your head I'm like what does he mean so I stick my head between my legs And thank God this girl who was there sees me in distress, comes over, and she teaches me box breathing, does the timer, and I do it. And it went from a traumatic to an amazing experience. And then I find out. I didn't know who she was. It was Danica Patrick. Of course. She teaches me my first ice set. That's just how epic they were. Every time you go there. Kenny Chesney was my workout partner one day.

1:07:14Frank Zummo:It's insane.

1:07:15Darin Olien:You never know who you're going to run into. But the common theme is we're there to get better and do all that. I have a funny drummer story for you. My intro into Malibu. So I just had moved from Boulder to California. And I was running around L.A., experiencing L.A. So I get a call, and I'll tell you who it is. I get a call. Hey, Darren, can you help me train, do some adaptive training in the gym in Malibu? I'm like, yeah, of course. So I come, go to Malibu Gym. I meet my good friend who married my really good friend from Boulder, Rick Allen. Oh, wow. So, and their daughter, Josie, is my goddaughter.

1:08:13Darin Olien:Awesome. So I go and I meet Rick and we, you know, show him some stuff and training. And obviously he's got a hell of a story because arm ripped off in the 80s. And I talk about adaptive drumming. And I saw Malibu and I was like, holy shit. like i'm from minnesota i'm still from minnesota i'm still a naive like oh like this is amazing and then malibu got its hooks in me and like saying you know i do find myself at laird's again you know gabby i knew laird i i knew gabby before laird actually i met her in that gym and then she she was like yeah you train a little differently maybe come come on up and meet the guys and And this was pre-pool training.

1:09:04Darin Olien:And we started doing weird. Laird had some ideas, and we jumped in their big-ass pool that was fairly newly built, biggest residential. And we were just panicking all the time. We didn't know how to regulate. And that was kind of the start of just utter chaos in the pool.

1:09:27Frank Zummo:It's so great. And just you feel so good. You could be explosive and it doesn't hurt your body. Like just incredible. And I really miss it. And I was always, you know, his deep end is real deep there. And I would always be hesitant. It took me a long time. And it wasn't until a couple years ago I was in Carolina on tour for a day off. And I drove like two hours to Paul DeTuro's house. and he was when I went to the xpt in Hawaii he was the guest speaker and I stayed in the house with them and we became you know friends and he's like come come train I'm like great I'm not staying in the hotel today I got a day off I can train with you and I was in his pool and he's got one section that's as deep as Laird's and it's the first time I was trying something and I went down there and did it and wasn't scared and it was the most freeing amazing feeling ever to finally have find that peace in the water that it took me a long time of this training to get comfortable.

1:10:33Darin Olien:Yeah, it is. Well, you're going kind of full circle back to the fear thing. Because that pool, when you're weighted down and then you can't breathe until you get your ass to the surface, what we realized very early on is you have to actually get more and more calm to extend the ability to do whatever weird shit we're doing. But you instantly want to panic, and it's the opposite. You have to shift down and become, oh, I've got more time than I actually know. So it's a perfect start to try to understand the levels of fear, especially when you can't breathe.

1:11:19Frank Zummo:Beyond. And then in like COVID, my therapy was like, my band was done. We weren't touring. We're a band where we need a crowd going crazy. Like there's, we're not touring until we can do that. So things were done. But I started having a hard time mentally because I wasn't getting that release. And I'm doing like workouts in my house by myself. Like I didn't have proper gear. It was just, it was hard. So I was like, I'm just going to start making music and collaborating with people. found a record deal put out music and then when it came time to like make a music video and promote it i called up laird and gabby and i'm like so you guys do weights in the pool can i drown my drums at the bottom of your pool for this music video and drum underwater they're like sure so they let me come to their house and throw my drums in their pool and i had to put a weight belt on because i was stay down yeah and then we had to put um weights inside the drums because they were spinning the wrong way and trying to float up.

1:12:17But talk about being scared.

1:12:20Frank Zummo:But it was the coolest thing because they've got the speakers in the pool already. I'm drumming along, and my feet were fine. That was on time, but the drumsticks are like spaghetti. So I had to really change how I played.

1:12:32Darin Olien:You actually played.

1:12:32Frank Zummo:I actually played under the water.

1:12:34Darin Olien:It wasn't just a picture. No.

1:12:36Frank Zummo:Because I remember seeing the picture. It was wild. I had a kick, snare, and hat, and I played the groove under the pool. Oh, my God. And it worked. then it was did you record it uh we it's a music video and then we did like a behind the scenes and laird's in it um he had like a little cameo in the video and it like the best day just all of us out in the sun in the pool filming a music funnest music video i've ever done because it was just like a great day and then like it was fun for the the crew because all the crew had to jump in and get those drums out from the bottom that had weights in them how heavy they are and what's crazy is the drums lived at the bottom of his pool all day and I thought they were gonna be toast they were fine they were totally fine and I donated them to a music school and they have them set up in that music school for the kids oh my god it's like perfect that's amazing yeah you get that picture by it you gotta give them I it's in Texas somewhere I gotta ask them if they did that they know the video um so hopefully they did that but that was a fun day like I mean And just, hey, you can work out in the pool.

1:13:41Frank Zummo:You can drum in the pool. You can do whatever. Just having fun doing things that are just, you know, like even today, you know, when I lived in L.A., I had a boxing coach I'd see once a week. I have stuff at home to train, but no one's coaching me. And bad habits you fall into. So today, all of a sudden, they're just like giving me all these pointers. And I'm like, it's so nice to have a coach again telling me what I'm doing wrong, technique stuff that you just don't realize and bad habits form. So that was a great way to like start the day. We're outside by the pool and the hotel, you know, corridor was around it.

1:14:18Frank Zummo:And it's just the mitts slapping at like 8 in the morning around the whole thing. And I'm like, nobody complained, but I'm like, we're over the airport. So planes are loud. So, you know, it's not summer where windows are open, but people would walk by and it's like, what is going on out here?

1:14:32Darin Olien:Great way to start the day, though. Well, I love it because it's always being a student, too. Always learning and expanding and learning through the eyes of your children and the people that you're impacting. It's freaking rad, man.

1:14:46Frank Zummo:It's awesome. And when I've seen amazing documentaries on Michael Jordan and all these great people, it's like they don't ever stop training and learning. And I found a teacher who we've been doing Zoom lessons, and he's close to here, which couldn't have worked out better, way better to be in person. But we've changed so many things to make it more efficient for me to drum. Like literally my height of how I sit at the seat, we changed. I was sitting too low. We literally raised the seat, pushed it back more, and I sit to the front of the seat so I have more range of motion. When I'm sitting more back, you're restricting.

1:15:27Frank Zummo:And I was sitting too low that it was not making things. changing something I've done my whole life like that just makes things easier like all the stuff I'm learning now so now I'm just like what else can we tweak like I want it's we all hear longevity it's like the people I look up to are still doing it late in their life and you know this is being retired I get to tour the world and hit drums and entertain people but I want to be able to do it forever and not have problems. And so it's like whatever we can do to get ahead of it now. And that goes with, like you said, from the underwear you put on your body to the water, you know, we've, we've got that amazing, you know, water filter system in our house that you recommended.

1:16:12Frank Zummo:And now they're making the shower heads with the filters. So we have that. And luckily where we live, it's so much better than in LA. We had to change our water things so often because it was toxic, water levels. Where I live, it's like they don't need to change that often because it's a lot better. But still, I wouldn't drink it out of the tap.

1:16:33Darin Olien:Yeah, no way. It's crazy. Unseen contaminants. Yeah. Well, you're a legend, dude. Thank you for sharing your story, and I'm really glad that you started putting it down and started sharing it because there's so much gift that you still have to give and you're still learning and still sharing and still what what are you what's the what's the progress of the workshops and what are you most stoked about right

1:17:01Frank Zummo:now it this year i'm gonna do as many as i can and the end of last year something i talked about in the book actually i talked about in the book and actually came true when the book came out which was crazy. But I always sit back at the end of each workshop year, like, how do we go even bigger next year? How do we, you know, I used to tour it when companies had budgets before COVID to put me on the road. And I'd go out with a crew and we'd make all the events free for kids. And those budgets don't exist anymore. So I've had to change them. So like, I'll go to one market now, we'll bring in a bunch of schools and do one big show.

1:17:39Frank Zummo:So financially, it makes sense for everybody involved but i was just like how sick would it be if i played an nfl game with these kids and it happened what just on december 14th we when the gates opened me and the school of rock all-star kids which are like their top kids that work hard to get to be the all-stars we played the new york giants opening of their game at their stadium in the snow 20 something degrees out me and the kids and the kids were freaking out like then they gifted them and their parents tickets to watch the game i was able to so i i work with a teen suicide prevention charity um and the snare drum that i played that shepherd ferry designed we auctioned it off to raise money for this organization because they're having a hard time right now and what's so great is that the person that bought it they bought it for their son who was struggling with mental health he was so moved by this organization he doubled the money to donate to this company wow which is so amazing but so it's like how do i do more of these workshops how do we go bigger how do we have as many kids involved so that's kind of the goal of this year to just keep that going.

1:19:03Frank Zummo:But to be honest, it's like I'm going to have my tour dates that I have to do, but they're not long, long tour legs. There's lots of breaks. It's being there for my family and being a husband, being a father, because like I said, it took a toll on my family the last year and a half. And I need to, I recognize that, and I don't want to have lasting effects on my children. I communicate with them. They know that this is my job. They know they can call me at any time. I understand that it's hard. And, you know, it's just that open communication. Like, we don't bullshit to our kids. You know, they ask, we tell.

1:19:45Frank Zummo:It's cool. And now that I've got a 10-year-old, it's like, it's getting even more. You know, he gave me the other night, like, you know, dad, because he was getting frustrated. Dad, it's because I'm going through puberty. I'm just like, is that already a 10? He's like, don't you? You're probably the same. I'm like, I don't remember. Maybe not. Everybody ages differently. I don't know, but I don't remember being very emotional, whatever, but my mom would probably know better. So now we're getting into that. Wow. So, yeah.

1:20:19Darin Olien:Wow. You're a legend, brother. Thank you, my man. Thank you, man. Cheers. Thanks for supporting this. The best. Easy.

1:20:26Frank Zummo:Yeah.

1:20:27Darin Olien:Thanks, man. Thank you. That was great. It was fun.