Kyle Nicolaides: The Surprising Path From Depression to Deep Purpose

34:50Darin Olien:Do you want to share any of that? Yeah. It's like the best way I can describe it. Like I could get into specifics and be like, and then this happened. but yeah and then the rainbows yeah exactly I could be like there's all kinds of colors and it was a music yeah yeah but I think the best way I can describe it it's like going from a black and white 1920s Disney cartoon and then someone flips a light switch and then all of a sudden you're in like a 2020 Pixar 3D animation right and I think just knowing that there was something bigger than myself out there. Bingo. Because I was, you know, all along the band, all along my teens and 20s, I was an, I'm trying to look for the word.

35:32I was an atheist and I didn't want to be an atheist. I was an unwilling atheist. And I'd been trying to get spiritual connection. I'd meditated. I'd gone to these places. Unwilling atheist. Unwilling atheist. Yeah. I was not a proud atheist. Right. I was dying for connection. And then I think when you get that and not just rationally understand it, but like somatically get it and and know it and experience that it you know again i call it like a light switch healing where you're just like oh everything's different now and you're right about the integration being like the one of the most important parts because when we finished that that ceremony the shaman said as relieving he's like now the real ceremony begins and i think about it the way that it makes sense in my mind is that it's all conditioning, right?

36:19So we have a certain way of being in the world. We have either trauma that happened to us or things that happened to us. And we go about making beliefs around that and then creating actions around that. And then that creates our life. And then we go to these plant medicine ceremonies. And I think Michael Pollan talks about this, like a groove in a record, it interrupts the groove. So the orientation that have with that is a Vedic one of like samskaras which is um similar to conditioning so the plant medicines completely can just break our conditioning up and that can be shocking because we can realize like oh like kind of what i said earlier like everything i thought about everything was wrong so then the work is like how do you the integration work is how do you take an experience that can be really intense and sometimes you might not even know how to decipher it which we can come back to and then how do you take that knowing and then distill that into a new way of being right and that takes time because again it's like quitting smoking or something you know it's like oh we realize like oh this is not good for me then we we wake up the next day and now we have one day of of a new way of being so then it's just conditioning and we might fall back and we We might go, you know, we might take steps forward.

37:37And it's like healing is not linear. It's up and down, up and down, up and down. It's messy.

37:40Darin Olien:Yeah. And there's a discipline to that. Absolutely. Like a literal action plan of like you remember who you were. Yep. You remember those actions that supported that person that you identified with. And now you're like, dink, that's completely shifted. and so now it's not and that and this is the the problem too or the challenge is that people then have this let me call it a movie that they just experienced that they're going holy shit amazing the difference is it's not just a movie it did shift something inside but then anchoring it in the actions moving forward aligning yourself with those things that will support that different perspective does that sound it makes it makes perfect sense and like i just like this just popped up too because there's so much nuance here yeah and it's such an unbelievably complex matrix that is so unique to every single person because ultimately with ayahuasca in my opinion no idea who it is no idea what it is like i have come to the conclusion that she's love and she wants the best for us but you know when it comes down to it when we go to a ceremony we have no idea what is happening on a physical energetic emotional there's all these different layers she can work on and you're right there's the purging so it's like she can literally get energy out of our body.

39:14Maybe that's stuck trauma. Maybe that's emotions we've been unwilling to feel. Maybe, you know, that's past life trauma, ancestral trauma, like, again, a whole matrix. And then you look at every single person's individual karmic matrix of like, when someone's ready to be done with something, they're ready to be done with something. And that's where kind of the mystery comes in, right? Of like, we do the best we can. And I read about this in the book about faith and action just what's the next right action and then what's the faith that no matter what I do that spirit is always with me and that I'm never alone I'm never separate and that may I trust in the divine timing of my life and that's the integration right that's the word to me it is yeah it's like you know can we make every action a prayer can we you know liberate ourselves can we work to become free and and I think the answer is yes but you know I don't think that a lot of uh plant medicine facilitators uh work long term with stuff like that you know and it's it's a lot to manage and I've seen it you know and I've seen kind of the whole I've seen hundreds of people do ceremonies and I've seen the whole gambit of this person did ayahuasca every week and that is not healthy you know like I've seen people try to run and have experiences just to have an experience sake.

40:37And I had a friend, you know, I was guilty of this too, because, you know, I did that thing where I was like, I want to try all the medicines. I want to, you know, give it all to me. And a friend pulled me aside and she said, hey, is your life changing? How has your life changed since she first sat with plant medicine? And I was like, why are you asking me that? She's right. She's right. And she said, it's like you've gone to a cafeteria and you're stacking up all the food and you haven't eaten anything. I was like you're right you know so it's just it's so again it's like so subtle because we're also working with every single person's mind and how they interpret what happens to themselves in plant medicine do they know that the medicine is a mirror do they know how to interpret the medicine do they know how to see what's actually happening what's the intention why they're doing it you know are they do they trust themselves is there a reason why they don't trust themselves like there's so much nuance

41:30Darin Olien:yeah well it's yeah and And at least having someone that maybe has studied this, their lives, and can navigate these subtle energies but also individualistic things that it's almost impossible to grok, like you said, all of what's going on. Yeah. I mean, it's impossible. I know. There's a, as you know, one second on plant medicine could be a lifetime of things that you've just worked through. And now what do you do? Like it's almost like it shakes it up and now it can create a different slate or a clean slate or a better slate. But you could absolutely just, number one, use medicine to escape again and then be this, you know, this spiritually egoic person that has all these stories and has all these shots.

42:43Darin Olien:Like I've seen that time and time again. Yeah. And then it becomes that story and then they're wrapped in it. and again i think it's it's intention and then it's also intention it gives you the opportunity from my perspective that shift and now what yep uh and that's the work and that's the hard work meaning that it's day to day it's it's so as you kind of navigated through all this stuff your perspective went back to the gift right of of this depression and what you've gone through so how did that how did that shift and then why at least why did you want to put it into this book like what was the genesis of wanting to share

43:42so i never thought i would write a book yeah i didn't think i could and i think three or four months after that initial first ceremony i was in another ceremony and i got a download from the medicine an idea for a kid's book and i remember waking up the next day and i was like that's interesting like write a kid's book and it was like about a little garden in your heart and like protecting the garden and stuff. It was really sweet. And then we're talking about integration. I forgot about it. I just forgot about it because I was like, this seems silly. This seems dumb. And then it was right before the pandemic.

44:20I was in Venice and I went to some cafe. It's the really earth. Earth cafe. Is it earth cafe? No, it's nicer than.

44:29Darin Olien:It's nicer than that. What's the nice one? I'm blacking it out because I went there one day and a friend from college saw me and she's like, you would go here and I was like whoa this is my first time gratitude cafe gratitude yeah of course yeah I was like whoa it's like yeah so I'm sitting there and this idea for a blog came out of like oh I would like to write a blog of like what are 10 things that depression taught just like to try to help people you know and make it really simple and I remember sitting down for 15 minutes and just like being so like unable to focus or just like so scatterbrained that I was like this is really hard pandemic hit and then i did the artist way which i don't know if you yeah so did that and then you know seven months later i was sitting in another cafe it's handlebar a lot of big things have happened to handlebar in santa barbara shout out so i'm sitting there and i was journaling and i was like oh i need to write a book because i remembered the blog and then classic me at the time did do didn't do any research did didn't research how to write a book or i did i i bought like three or four books on how to write books I bought a book about how to format a book how to publish it and then I just got to work and just literally when I first started doing it couldn't sit down for more than 15 minutes and then I worked my way up to four hours and then managed to get it done and source the right people and then raised like$22 ,000 from 200 people and the whole time everybody in my life was like what the hell are you doing like you're supposed to hold a guitar and sing and I was like you guys I'm writing this book and like people couldn't really get a right because this is your identity it was almost like that same thing pulling you back in from your network of people yeah this is who you are yeah yeah and you're like well but I'm currently being called to do this and then the willingness to do it mm-hmm yeah and I just you know I didn't know any better I just like it needs to come out and then you know it's cool because it's out in the world, it's selling.

46:28I'm a one-man publishing team, so I just, you know, hustled. Good for you. Thanks. It's hard. Yeah, it's a big, you know, it's a lot of work. You know, and I'm getting messages from people who are like, you know, like, wow, in like 16 years of therapy, like this perspective helps so much. And then I was also like, felt like a fraud because I was like, who are you to come in with the mental health area? Like, you don't have any degrees or anything. And I was like, well, I have my wisdom, I have my experience. and I felt like there was a lack of books about depression written by people who had healed their own depression.

46:58There was tons of books on depression by depressed people talking about how bad depression is, and I'm like, it's not helpful.

47:04Darin Olien:Or PhDs who have studied it. That too, and I remember flipping through them, and I got mad because I was like, yo, this is so inhumane. They're like, the depressed person may be likely to feel suicidal, and I'm like, my teacher has a really good saying where there's a difference of reading the menu at a restaurant and tasting the food. And I think when it comes to mental health and who to follow, there's a huge difference in that because, again, she uses a jungle metaphor where it's like if you're lost in the jungle, would you rather have someone who has been in that same jungle and knows the day in and day out mental game, physical game, emotional game, and then found their way out and then they can help you out?

47:45Or would you rather have someone who read some books about jungles or like talk to some people who had got out of the jungle themselves, you know?

47:53Darin Olien:Someone who has alchemized the place of being there. Because there is a massive difference when you sit across from someone and you know that they know what depression is. and and so there is to your point there is a different space that opens up and a different line of opportunity coming from the place that you came from because there's a trust that hey he's been there because he's saying the same things I'm same things I'm experiencing so So that's a powerful, powerful place to come from because it's received differently. And it's also not necessarily going intellectually through it. But you're coming from a source, a beingness.

49:01Darin Olien:And that's a different thing. And we need more of that. Of course, science and all of this stuff needs to be in its place. But I think leading always from science, science is always behind. It's way behind. Tell me, like, how science explains what you went through. How does science explain the infinite that you got a glimpse to see? How does science explain the shame cycle, the things that have kept you in? Of course there's ways to explain it, but it's different. And I applaud you for doing it because while you're doing something like this, the little voice, society's voice even, will say, who are you?

49:56Darin Olien:Who are you to do this? and then that's a that's a further so so i applaud you for doing that thank you thank you for saying that that means a lot because i'm writing thank god for anxiety i have a series and um that one is this there's a lot of psychedelics in this but it's it's more of a smorgasbord and the anxiety book it's i healed my nervous system through psychedelics past life regression, entity removal, all these like super fringe things, uh, certain meditations, uh, guides, Akashic records, like all that stuff. And the same fear came up of like, whoa, bro, you're about to put yourself out there in like a way that you might not be able to take back.

50:46And to your point about science, I remember, um, someone saying, yes, scientists are finally catching up to these ancient vedic um rishis from thousands of years ago sure and they're proving all the things true that these guys just knew from being from sitting in meditation from having direct experience with it and then it made me think about the different ways of dealing with suffering because for again for thousands years there's been spirituality and practices of whether it's like tantric practitioners like cashmere shaivism or buddhism who are basically scientists of their era looking at how to liberate the mind and that's been around for thousands years so like you know there's that avenue you can go down and then there's the what you said earlier like the indigenous plant medicine path who has again been around for thousands of years like there and and and then there's psychology which deals with the rational which is like pretty new still but like that's also a valid path so it's like there's these all there's a lot of different healing modalities and like my whole thing is like i'm not preaching a dogma i'm not saying like this is the way because i've had people do that to me it's a bummer i'm just saying like here's my experience here's my wisdom here are different paths you can walk down go find out what works for yourself all of the past that I just you know mentioned you got to be mindful with it sure there's pitfalls to everything and there's a way to do things and there's a way not to do things yeah

52:22Darin Olien:so well I think without a doubt um siloing things is not good for us siloing say science is going to take us or it's exclusively everyone in the world needs to do plant medicine yeah it's it's it's a blend. It's a coming together and it's almost a check and balance this day. Because even right now, we've got a certain AI consciousness that's, you know, you can question whether it's consciousness, right? It is a form of almost technocratic push of give us the answers, show us how to do that. And listen, it's a tool, how you use that tool. But to bet the farm that this is the way to create society.

53:26Darin Olien:And the little caveat here is, let's say yes AI is flying right now right but AI is physical and what I mean by that is it has physical data centers that need physical power to to construct that and so that physical structure is also having strains on Gaia the planet the environment that everything else so So it's like as we look at these things, we need to be mindful. And I think blending science, keeping it in its supporting some of the indigenous ways with science opens up other people to that learning through the mind and then into the heart or into another way. So it's like we if we're so far down the path on one thinking that I look at our health care system, completely divorced of of indigenous knowledge.

54:34Darin Olien:Yeah. Right. And how is that working out? Right. You know, and just look at all look at systems. I look at systems all the time. So it's like, are these systems or are they imploding? Of course they're imploding because they divorce the natural system. So that's my long way of saying there is balance with all of this stuff, right? There is an opportunity. There's a reason why plant medicines have come so strongly back, but it needs to be curated in a way that's helpful. and the intro, the outro, the right, true shaman that can handle that kind of responsibility. So all of this stuff to say, I've seen some of the greatest advancements when I'm out in the world doing stuff when indigenous people, truly I've seen it happen, indigenous people are informing scientists and scientists are forming indigenous people.

55:33Darin Olien:And I've had, this was actually happened when we were filming Down to Earth in Australia. we were literally out in the Great Barrier Reef on a platform. And I sat in. I don't think it came up in the show, but we sat in in a meeting, and the scientist turned to me, and she goes, Without a doubt, we have learned way more than from the indigenous people being next to us and teaching us than us alone. Wow. You know, so it's that kind of thing. Do we have science that's incredible? Yes. Do we have plant medicine? Do we have ceremony? Do we have spirit? Do we have the acknowledgement of we are this, you know, coming together of heaven and earth, you know, this body that we get to play around with, but there's this consciousness that's coming out.

56:32Darin Olien:So let's work together here so we can express this life. Let's create utopia, but left alone with the government, with the science team, with the thing. Implosion's happening. The pressures of destroying our planet is upon us with all of this stuff. So I wanted to create that context because it's important that we bring in all of this knowledge and we move forward as a society and not also silo ourselves and think that one way is the only way. So I love that you've created a context where there's many different opportunities. It's really beautiful. It's really beautiful. It's so important, and I think it's so well-spoken, too.

57:36Because I've run with plant medicine people who demonize any and all Western medicine, demonizing antidepressants, and I was always like, wait, that's not. like and even my own healing path it's never been one size fits all it's it's been doing all of the things yeah and I think that this also is such an exciting time right now because you know I've heard I just talked to someone the other day and they're like oh I'm doing a mushroom ceremony with like Celtic shaman and I'm like wow cool you know and you know because I also hear people talk about the whole like you know why is plant medicine in the west and it's like well whose business is it for you to judge that when we're dealing with different levels of consciousness here and different intelligences, you know?

58:21So I think it's so cool, like the unity, it's the same thing when people try to separate mind, body, and spirit. And it's like, they're all one, you feel all your emotions in your body, you know, mind and body are more connected than we ever know. Yeah. So,

58:35Darin Olien:you know, I had a funny thing that we were talking about this pain thing, right? So I went to this really renowned conservative but open enough to learn about platelet rich plasma stem cells and really do i've been weirdly connected to stem cells learning from some doctors over the years and and this guy and i was again i was tapping out on all the pain and so when i was having the procedure and you'll appreciate this so he brings up the screen and he's going into my knee first right so he's he's using um uh ultrasound so we can see it and he puts the needle in he goes see it i go yeah it's right there he goes because that's precision we're going to go right there and we're going to put your own plasma in this and this is better than cortisone in his experience it it helps to regenerate already without even the stem cells and all this stuff and so as he was putting the plasma in, I was like, is that light?

59:42Darin Olien:Because it got bright. And he goes, yeah, I guess. And I'm like going, what? And so I'm kind of tripping out because I can walk a lot of different, I've done a lot of ceremonies over the years, but I also studied a lot. And so I can toggle but I'm sitting there watching this going on my knee I'm like going and I'm like that looks like light and he goes and this is a conservative doctor but also very sweet and open and he's like yeah it's kind of like we're putting seal team six into your and I'm like and then he turns to me he goes you know I believe in that visualization stuff and I was like this is awesome And so as he's putting it in, I'm bringing my attention there.

1:00:35Darin Olien:And within hours, I'm out of pain. Right? And he will be the first. And the reason I'm saying this is because he's the first one to say, I don't know how it happens. I don't know what happens. And then he's told me this interesting thing, which I've never heard anyone say. When we put the stem cells in there, it's not the stem cells that are regenerating the tissue, which everyone is saying. They're signaling the body in a way that we don't even understand. So when you put them in, they're saying, okay, body, I need you to heal this area. Wow. Wow. So I'm in a doctor's office experiencing this toggle between heavily researched.

1:01:27Darin Olien:These guys are moving down the FDA path. You know, I was able to get under right of try because they're so far down the path of stem cells and platelet-rich plasma and all this stuff. And at the same time, if you ask them, the right doctor, the expert, the guy, he's like, this is what seems to be happening. It's a signal for the body to do what? It's miraculousness in a way we don't understand. That's so cool. That to me is balance. That's expressing balance. That's like a common sense thing. So when we get into this, it's this, it's that. It's a disservice to all of it. So we can't say all plant medicine is bad and all traditional medicine is bad.

1:02:19Darin Olien:Too much of our lives right now, especially online, is siloed. Yep. And it's right and wrong and good and bad. Nothing's black and white. Nothing. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. But that's the truth. I mean, that's the utopia that I want to continue to put energy into. It's beautiful. I mean, it's so important because this, I don't know why I'm about to say this, but the balance is huge because you look at Western societies, they tend to prioritize money fame social media account you know all these things that are cool but they're not to me they're not the real aim right and then you're like why is everyone sick why is everyone's soul sick why why are we eating ourselves alive as a culture it's like because this is what we're prioritizing yeah so yeah it's amazing um that to me healthier balance and even you can not that we're going to talk about that but politics is the same way yeah it's just like it's this it's that and it's just like it's a pendulum of just complete nonsense you're like ah i know who i am i know where i'm going i don't need to get involved with this distracted kind of methodology here or viewpoint also like you can call me a total hippie but like some of the best things in my life have happened when i let go of control and let go of surrender and didn't know what was going to happen yeah like if i got what i would have wanted when i was 26 i would have been dead like if i want i I wanted to be the rock star.

1:04:16I wanted to be the guitar guy. I would have died. Right. You know, so like all the ceremonies I've done, my intention is like the medicine knows best for me. And she has a path and plan for me that I never could have even dreamed of. Right. And then again, the integration of like trusting in the path of my own life. Right. Trusting that there is some outcome way greater than my rational mind could ever think of. Right. You know, and I think it goes back to what I've seen. there's a collective way of pushing things to make things happen pushing and striving and forcing and being so masculine that you're just you know taking it which there's times for that there's times for that but again the balance right and i'm just in my own life i'm leaning more into like okay what if i surrender what if i listen and ask for guidance and see where that leads me because i've known where the pushing's got me and it just leads me to burnout and exhaustion

1:05:12Darin Olien:yeah and then that pushing pushing comes from like i know what i want yeah and so therefore i'm gonna do it and then that's you know there you know i don't know if there's a goal i've had that i've gotten that wasn't absolutely given in a much better broader more fulfilling way I may have started with a little goal of what I think I want, but I always got blown away because that's the catalyst. I want this and I want a healthier life. I want fame or whatever. But it's like as being open to let the universe, our soul interact or our other information come in to then sit back and go, whoa, that's a lot better than what I was imagining.

1:06:06Darin Olien:yeah and that's the surrender then that's the opportunity yeah and to like throw it back to the book like that's the argument i make with depression because i say yo depression's taking you on a journey and that's exciting because now you get to try all these things and who knows who the hell you'll be after that right you might even forget that you were depressed you know like because because the thing about whatever you're dealing with anxiety depression it's like they're I call them lighthouses where they're telling you something needs to be changed so there's the manageables like maybe there's something simple in your life that needs to change relationship living situation you know job like all these things and then there's like the spiritual changes and that's that's where I will wholeheartedly make the argument of there's something exciting here and I've seen it time and time and time again of you know just my own life and and again like i i told this story in a in the i think it's going to go in the next anxiety book but like when beware darkness was first starting out um like 2012 we got asked to play this venue in santa barbara called velvet jones like a little dive bar and there was like 13 girls in the audience and we didn't know who the headlining band was like i saw their name and i was like whatever so we play our set and we're like hard rock band and these like preteens are looking at us like what the hell is happening you know just like heavy metal the retirement home like to knock over well so we so we go off side stage and we watch the headlining band and we're all watching them and we're like this is the worst thing i've ever seen like like we're looking at each other we're like is this like lame or what you know so then we do what every opening band does to every headlining band even if they hate them we're just like man that was amazing good job guys you know and then they go sign everything and you know we didn't talk to them because they were just like, that was whack.

1:07:58Let's go get some pizza or some Greek food and go home. Turned out the band was Imagine Dragons. And like six months later, they're like the biggest band in the world, you know? So I tell that story because, you know, for years I would be like, oh, that was bad. I made a mistake. I should have made friends with them. Who knows where my music career would have been. And if you talk to any of my music career people, they would have been like, yeah, you blew it. But then looking from another perspective of like, well, maybe it's, who knows where that would have led, you know, and then every step took you to the spiritual path, which is the more important, more fulfilling path to me.

1:08:34So maybe it was a good thing. And I think there's that argument of, we don't know what's good or bad when it's happening. And it's kind of like, uh, what's the word? Um, I'm blanking on the word. It's like, it's really, oh wow, this doesn't happen in a minute like well it's almost like to make an assumption that we know what's going to happen it's like a little belligerent because we don't know like can you judge it's easy to judge

1:09:02Darin Olien:something yeah and and unless just to stay open and and receive everyone can have a bad night that's for sure but staying open to like not even getting into whatever that conclusion is and and And we can't judge because judgment just shuts everything down. It's so crazy because I'm dealing with a decision right now, and I was freaking out about it and worrying and suffering, and I was like, wait, you can make the decision without all this stuff. That's optional. When has worrying ever helped make a decision? When has judgment, criticism, or blame ever helped you get clarity? But we do it all the time, and it's just the conditioning, the suffering.

1:09:46Darin Olien:What's your biggest takeaway that you want people to get from this book? That you're not who you think you are bingo That to me is I think one of the greatest tools of like Even living into the question right like who am I? Let's see Who do I want to be? Yeah, where do I want to go? Mm-hmm and And so wait a minute, you're not your depression.

1:10:22Darin Olien:So who are you now? Who am I now? Yeah. Oh, I am a goddess devotee and a sliver of the divine that came down here to have a human experience and check out being in a body. And I'm also Kyle, but I'm also not Kyle, which I'm still wrapping my head around. Yeah, yeah. You know? Well, it's a medium to which you can identify, like, hey, this is a table, and we get to use it, you know? Like, we're all the infinite just running around. Like, that's the crazy thing. We're all infinite beings. Yeah. I have to ask, since you're such an amazing singer and you blessed us with that song, what's next for the career?

1:11:24That's a good question.

1:11:30So I'm recording songs right now for the first time. Amazing. And I've had a very up and down relationship with music. I stopped doing music because there was so much trauma around the industry aspect. and then ayahuasca brought me back to music, started playing in ceremonies, completely changed how I sing, completely changed my entire relationship with music, and then wrote the book, which felt good, but I had a realization a couple months ago of music is the medicine, so I am going to go back into the studio probably tomorrow or the next day. I already got a couple songs recorded, and I don't have a car right now.

1:12:10I'm just literally in the studio, just like no distractions nothing and just gonna gonna write and create and then and then who knows start playing shows I don't know honestly like same same set of same sort of thing I'm just like one step in front of the other yeah because I start doing like should be in a band should you this what should it be called oh it's like bro one step in front of the other yeah all those things look like trust surrender so we'll play some music because you're

1:12:37Darin Olien:You're gifted, and that's a blessing for people because I heard it. I felt it, and I'm glad you're playing again. Thank you. Thank you, brother. This has been just so unexpectedly.

1:12:59Darin Olien:I also just didn't know what we were going to get into. I obviously had an idea, but I love the perspective of not identifying to a current situation

1:13:16Darin Olien:and also the willingness to find the breadcrumbs along the way and then to share it. And that's vulnerable and that's hard work. And thank you for everything you're doing. I can't wait to hear more music. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for this conversation. It was beautiful. Yeah. I feel inspired. Awesome brother. Yeah.