Tanya O'Callaghan: The Vegan Rock Star Challenging Everything We Know About Food and Animals

0:03Darin Olien:Welcome to Super Life with me, Darin Olien, a podcast where we explore, discover, and share solutions that promote a healthier life and a better world. Together, we'll ignite possibilities, inspire change, and build sovereignty, creating a roadmap towards a super life for you and for all. Get ready to start living your super life.

0:34Darin Olien:Before we get into today's episode, I want to acknowledge the company helping to support this conversation, Alchemist. You know, most of us spend so much energy thinking about what we put into our bodies. The food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breathe outside, but here's something that doesn't get nearly enough attention. The air inside your home. Here's a fact that floored me. Conventional paints, which are petrochemical based, are off-gassing endocrine disrupting chemicals for not just days, for years after they've been applied. This means the walls of your bedroom, your kids rooms, your kitchen, they could literally be releasing toxic chemicals into the air you're breathing every single day.

1:23Darin Olien:That's why I want to talk about Alchemist. Alchemist is the world's first wellness paint. Their paints are mineral-based, VOC-free, and completely free of PFAS, those damn forever chemicals that have no business being anywhere in our environment, especially in our home. And because the formula is rooted in natural minerals, It's inherently anti-mold, anti-fungal, so there's no synthetic additives needed to perform. Nature has already done the work. On top of all of that, alchemist paint is class A fire resistant, which I love here in Southern California, because guess what? Rocks, i.e. minerals, don't burn.

2:10Darin Olien:So you're not just protecting your family's health, you're protecting your home on every level. no downside. And here's the thing that really speaks to me. Alchemist is cradle-to-cradle certified. If you're not familiar with that, it's one of the most rigorous sustainability certifications in the world. It means the product has been evaluated across its entire life cycle from the ingredients sourced to make it all the way to what happens when it is no longer needed. Nothing is an afterthought with this company. That's a standard most companies never even attempt to meet, but they do. They've rethought the entire formula from the ground up, so you don't have to choose between a beautiful home and a safe home.

2:55Darin Olien:We put so much thought into the products that touch our bodies or go into our bodies, it just makes sense to extend the same standard to the surfaces that literally surround us. If you're repainting a room, or now inspired to do so, building something new, or just ready to make a healthier swap, check out Alchemist. Go to A-L-K-E-M-I-S dot com. Use the code Darren10. D-A-R-I-N 10. Welcome back to the Super Life Podcast. Today I am joined by world-renowned rock bassist and lifelong activist Tanya O 'Callaghan. Known for touring with rock legends like White Snake's Bruce Dickinson, Tanya's true driving force has always been her fierce dedication to animal and human rights.

3:51Darin Olien:In this episode, we explore how she seamlessly blends her rock and roll lifestyle with a powerful plant-based advocacy. From helping her Vietnam veteran neighbor finding healing, through plant-forward food, to collaborating with the Maasai tribesmen to bring sustainable agriculture and clean water to his community in Kenya, Tanya proves that leading with curiosity can bridge any cultural divide. This is a beautiful conversation about staying true to your moral compass and proving that changing plates can change the world. Let's dive in. Tanya, welcome to the Super Life podcast. Thank you very much.

4:36Garamila Mahagath, as we say in Ireland. What?

4:40Darin Olien:I smell bad? Something like that? Just drizzle a little bit of Irish in there to confuse you of a mid-morning. I'm honored. Yeah, so there's so many different interesting parts of yourself, right? And obviously the rock side of you and us even getting to have this conversation is because you're on a break. You haven't had a break in a long time. Yeah. And just out of curiosity, was that a choice this time? And or being on tour was just like, it was just happening. You were just like, let's just go. like how how did that happen to be kind of wanting to do it for so because being on on the road is gnarly right yeah it's uh i mean it's amazing and it's gnarly yeah um and i have basically been on tour for 20 years like for two decades because i am a what's called like a hired gun a session musician so I'm in multiple bands so I you know early in my career back in Ireland I was in multiple bands and I was doing the thing across Ireland and England and across Europe and then when I moved to the US about 11 years ago or so then I was in the hustle of like trying to get the US based gigs and there was a few years of like more local stuff but then once I started like the crazy ripple effect that happened once I started getting the US based gigs.

6:26I just was back to back. So I would do a tour with someone like Dee Snider and then Dee's tour would finish up. And then I was with another artist. I was with a pop R &B guy, Jordan Fisher. And then I was with Stephen Adler from Guns N' Roses and then Whitesnake and then Bruce Dickinson. And they all just happened like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. So like a lot of musicians will be in one band and then they'll do a tour cycle they'll do an album and there'll be a break and then the kind of pattern repeats but because i've been in multiple bands all the time i'm just like on the road right which is you know be careful what you wish for it's been absolutely incredible but because i work so intensely in other sides of me that people you know obviously know about if i if they follow me because i've been a passionate activist my whole life but it was hard to find the balance of being on the road and not having enough time to focus on those projects so this year I finally have that space which is really great I still do them when I'm on the road but now it's like okay I have some time off yeah but my time off is still on the road yeah because

7:28Darin Olien:it's international projects right yeah because you're excited about them and and uh and they're a part of you and you know it's like phases of our life we get to like focus on different things and And like, I'm curious that, you know, to be in multiple bands, to to to show up in that way. What was that? What was that click over that that you just were the person that they wanted? You know what I mean? Like to show up in all of those bands and to for them to continuously want you. what how did that click from from you were localized here and then what was that final kind of well I think it's how you put your I've always wanted to be like a session musician when I when I first started playing because I always just loved the fun of collaborating with so many different people but also like my roots are way before I picked up a base they're in activism in animal rights, human rights.

8:34So I understood early on in my career that this platform, if utilized correctly, can be so great for if you're also flying the flag for causes. So it always made sense to me to play with multiple people. And it wasn't really planned. It was just that I would be out doing jam nights in LA and you, you know, musicians out jamming, looking for gigs you get hired for a gig then people see you like all of my gigs came from the band seeing me play with other bands and they like my live performance they like my playing and then you know the bass chair opens up and you get the call so it's it's not really planned and i could have never guessed that i would basically end up in all of the 80s like right i just play with all the 80s guys because that again wasn't something i grew up in wasn't wasn't what i came to la looking for particularly but it was just this bizarre like domino thing of one guy sees you d snyder sees you play with someone and then you know david coverdale saw me play with stephen adler stephen adler played me saw me play with someone else and so you never know it wasn't exactly a

9:42Darin Olien:plan it just unfolded as such well it's also saying yes to the when it unfolds right especially early on like i would play at the opening of an envelope down like i was like yes yes yes to everything because I was trying to when I moved to the US I didn't know anybody at all so it was very like how am I going to get into this scene and the only way you can do that is to surround yourself with people who are already doing the thing whatever that thing is for you so I really like just dove into where are the musicians that are already doing these kind of gigs where are the jam nights and then just through playing and exposure that way it just started happening Where do you think the confidence, the willingness, the say, fuck it, I'm jumping in, where did that come from?

10:32The audacity. I don't know. I mean, I just, you know, I come from a small town in Ireland and you realize that, you know, at a certain point, and there's nothing wrong with it. you're either going to kind of go through the normal format and you're going to do the process, go to school, go to college, whatever, settle down, get a job. That was never who I was. And I always had this like burning desire to get out into the world. A lot of it for, you know, again, back to the activism roots and having even traveled with that quite young. And I always just knew I was too curious. So even if it failed, like why not?

11:14And when I got my first opportunity to play with a bigger name so Maynard Keenan from Tool had me play on an album when I was in my early 20s and that was the first major major artist that I really really respected because I was a huge Tool fan and Maynard took a risk on me as a young player and what he did was very much like the catalyst for me to go oh my god if I go to the US that's the level of artists that I could potentially you know start to collaborate with I had already done the scene in Ireland and it's a small country so I was going back around in the same circles and understanding that why not just go out and try because what's the worst that can happen like you just you're going to go home and do a local gig and that's fine right so I guess when you're younger you're a lot like there's a fearlessness about you that you're just determined to get out and try these

12:07Darin Olien:things but it's also a foundation of like there there's a level at least i find that there's a level of there's something seated where you feel like you can risk i resonate with like i can go home i've had that in my head every time i've taken off so so like and for me like i think it was my mom's love without a doubt like i'm like because i can always go home like okay go try this home is safe it's full of love that's what i see and and so like that's but it's also not normal i'm from a small town you're from a small town not all people and they could have had love in their life for sure but whatever that is but there was a there was something in you that just needed to to rebel yeah yeah mine i mean i have an amazing family back home just like very quintessential normal working class irish upbringing that's definitely there the foundation of it but i also had a really rough time with the education system in ireland the dark veil of the catholic church in ireland which was you know something that i was always sort of like not okay with not because like i'm anti-religion or anything but it's it's hard to describe unless you're from a culture like that where we have this very deep rooted like generational trauma shadow over and when I was still in my generation in what we call secondary school I guess high school here there was always this feeling of if you don't do it this way you're never going to succeed in life and we have what's called a leaving cert in Ireland and it's dangled over you like if you don't get the leaving certificate you'll go nowhere in life and that just never sat well with me because I love learning I absolutely love education but the system that it was presented to you know most of us around the world it didn't fit how I learned and I was super curious from a young age and I was very rebellious in questioning things like the food and everything that I just got in trouble all the time for asking questions.

14:27And that was really frustrating. And I didn't understand it as a young person as much. Now I see it because like you're out of it. You're an adult. You but you're just being told, like, if you don't do it this way, you're never going to go anywhere. You're going to end up with a shitty job and a shitty situation. I'm like, this seems so insane because I know inside of me there's a drive like music became a vehicle and a platform for me that was never the plan but there was like this you know drive to ask bigger questions to go seeking and yes of course if all else fails you can come home but like you just have to seek but a lot so a lot for me was a fire of fuck the system like just to put it like punk rock plainly because of course there were good teachers and there were cool people around but there was there was always this like veil of you know you're gonna fail if you don't do it this way i'm like as soon as someone tells you that of course if you have a rebellious spirit you're gonna be like yeah you're doing that let

15:27Darin Olien:me try yeah exactly that's a perfect thing for people for you to say to me because that fires me up to actually then go do it right is it me or the coffee yeah exactly it's a good combo so like so then the so the because it's also a bit of rebelliousness to be an activist in a weird way because not in a weird way but like i see systems that fail all the time i can't unsee systems that fail yeah right we can go off on the agricultural system on the animal agriculture we can go off on like we can go hell i can go off on the un failing at 17 systems that aren't producing results like at the end of the day if something's not producing a change it's not doing it fundamentally right so we're failing as a human in a human society in many ways i mean you and i have a love for africa throw a dart at it i guarantee those people don't have access to clean water they're struggling they're in one of the richest continents on the planet uh in many different ways right from a resource perspective and yet you know they got a thumb pressed down on them as a as a society so um so from your activism side where did that kind of spawn and come from well it goes way back.

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18:47so when I was four I my first memories are with animals so I always had this innate draw to animals where they were just like a safe space for me I really just felt like safe around animals I had this you know the weird child that wanted to just be with everything from the dog or the cow to the insect to be honest it was funny but I had a cow that I thought was mine but it was just like the field behind my parents house was full of cows when you're a kid you think like they're all your pets so I named them and I had a pet cow named Daisy and I would run around the field playing with her all the time and I just have very vivid memories with like being around the animals and I came to the dinner table and my brother told me when I was like four going on five-ish that that's Daisy on the table.

19:38It is my first really prominent memory because I remember just the feeling of looking at, it wasn't actually Daisy. He was, you know, being an annoying older brother trying to piss me off or whatever. But in that moment, I was like, absolutely no. Absolutely no way am I eating that if that is an animal. I just remember this viscerally. Like when I think about it still to this day, I have like a visceral response. so right then and there i was like i'm not eating meat and i'm you know four and a half my parents are going oh no shit because there's no education yet around what happens if your child stops eating meat and everyone's obsessed you know with protein protein whatever but that was the catalyst for me majorly it was animal based so that made sense to me even at four completely so that's like the roots of it and then it was obsessive because by the time i was six my parents like for the first year or so they were really worried and they were getting a lot of misinformation about how my health would go I'd have stunted growth I'd get one doctor said I'd get rickets which has absolutely nothing got to do with anything until an Indian doctor came on a residency in our little small town and said oh most of my country are vegetarians she'll be fine at that point my parents were kind of able to be like okay and then it was just I was just the weird veggie in the village or whatever so that was that but by the time i was eight i was volunteering in a rescue shelter and i did 10 years as a head volunteer like everything from rescue and rehab to undercover investigation very young like really heavy heavy activism so it was from that spark of understanding what meat is and that doesn't sit right with me like my moral compass feels off here I couldn't describe that as a kid but now as an adult it makes so much sense that like I shouldn't do that because it makes me in my gut instinct it makes me feel like I'm doing something against who I am and that happened to me a few times throughout life and I really tried to follow that so that has always been everything through my music career and everything that's my guiding light it's like what is your gut instinct telling you so the the roots of it from four.

21:53So I've been vegan my whole life, basically.

21:56Darin Olien:And any day now I'm going to get that protein deficiency. But any day now. But yeah, I was long before I picked up a bass guitar. I was like gung-ho activist. It was insane. It was just like, yeah. And then bass happened. Yeah. And then bass happened. Well, you know, I believe that I believe in the I believe that the human the human spirit is kind and loving absolutely right I believe that to my core and I also believe we can blow blow off awareness we can do that over time and all of a sudden we're over there acting and being a certain way and shutting down our hearts shutting down awareness shutting you know and so that's and and then add that up to like the diversity of life and we're all on some sort of spectrum in terms of that you know so like you know we're in a world to where we've normalized the the obviously the massive slaughter of animals every day to have a subsidized version of some sort of you know horrible food from my perspective um and and i think one of the things i agree like like learning to listen and act upon that which is that that um that's call it a string inside of us right you know that yeah not to use the basis.

23:39Darin Olien:But that part of us that we know is what is true. And then for you to honor that at four and to continue to exercise that awareness is also rebellious. It's like, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. Yeah. Because it's also pushing into and it's pushing back into a system that I don't know why it's okay. Right? Yeah. It shouldn't be like this unique story because I think if you present children or just people with the reality of what has to happen for our food system, Like we do have a tendency to look away. Right. And then, you know, it's just hyper normalization. It's just, you know, cognitive dissonance, whatever the human, because we know that we don't agree with cruelty to animals.

24:50If you do, that's a whole other conversation about like psychopathy that we don't need to get into. But like almost all people on this planet are inherently kind. I really believe that. And I've traveled the world and I've witnessed that. people from all sorts of cultures like that we think way differently on like 99 of things but people are inherently kind right but we just this fast-paced ease of access the way the food system is kept out of sight out of mind but you know it's like cruelty out of sight is no less cruel but we are just so used to looking away because it's nicely packaged like i was just talking about this yesterday where you know i'd gone into a shop on the way when i was driving to la and i saw at the graveyard as i call it the meat counter humanely slaughtered and i just it's the world it's such a fucking oxymoron it's like we but we've got to that point with marketing where because people are inherently kind they need to use labels that make us feel better about the about the horrors of it and that's not me being radical if you just break that like that statement down there is no such thing as a humane slaughter like unless we're hugging them to death or something i don't understand how we've gotten here so i just wish that we would look more uh like i think it's insulting as consumers because we're smarter than that like just tell the truth at least about where your food comes from and even this goes i come from a farming culture so i'm always really careful on this topic because this is not anti-farmers.

26:28Farmers are the hardest working people on the planet, right? We just need to transition the food system. But we've gotten so abundant and so ease of access and everything's like, bam, bam, bam, let's just do it so quickly and get the thing that we just look away. And that's really frustrating because it's insulting to the consumer to, you know, cage free and antibiotic free and grass. And we use all these labels to make ourselves feel better to support a system that like if you really sat with yourself and asked yourself after looking at footage like am i okay with this would i do this to dogs and cats you know everyone goes crazy with the dog meat festival um but why like why do we go crazy with that they all feel the same pain suffering you know and you know at this point people are like like, oh, radical, vegan.

27:17It's not radical, though, to just be not okay with cruelty to animals that feel pain. And also, like, the food system is a human rights issue. Like, I did a lot of undercover investigation in my early activism years, and the amount of trauma and PTSD for people that have to work in these jobs, it's insane. So it's a human rights issue. It's an environmental issue. It's, you know, it's all these things. I mean, we could rant on this for days. But, you know, in a nutshell, I just think it's we've gotten so disconnected from where our food comes from. And it's also not that complicated because nowadays we have all these, you know, the fads, the superfoods, the things.

28:00It's like just like eat your veggies, eat your fruits and veggies.

28:04Darin Olien:Yeah. Yeah. And and and we now more and more evidence. People will find evidence for anything. but oh my god but you know you know but the evidence of like you know plant forward mostly plants all plants are healthier period end of story so like um i i go back to you know as an individual getting to integrate a life of integrity is a forever journey. As we become aware of our own patterns and our own potential for healing. But it's like getting to live in a way that doesn't cause this level of harm feels pretty good. Why not? If we know that we can cause less cruelty. And we all have blood on our hands for some reason it's hard to live a life where you don't have some because we've iphones and we have all these things right but we know with the food system so it's something we actually can do and then you can lose you're choosing to live a more congruent life by asking yourself like am i okay with this am i okay with that so it is it's just a choice we can make every day right and it should be a constant journey yeah it should be i mean i was just playing uh i was just playing with I mean, a few weeks ago, we were in Vermont.

29:37Darin Olien:And I was playing, I think I told you, I was playing. You were playing with cows. I was playing with the cows. And it was like, they were having so much fun. And like, not to get into like the heaviness of this, but, you know, it's like, that is life expressing and loving. And then, you know, we've got, you know, Cameron and also Kip Anderson and created Christ-spiracy, which is like, how would Jesus slit the throat of a, you know, that's not what they're asking per se. Like the modern food system version, yeah. Yeah, how would they do it? Is there a kind way to kill the animal? Slaughter anything.

30:21Darin Olien:And you can see when you watch that film that the people have no idea how to answer that question. How do you answer that, yeah. Good luck. Good luck answering that. But I want to transition to something that's so rad from this because it's like everyone knows and it's a great actually counterpoint to what we're talking about in a certain sense, the Maasai warriors. Right? So like predominantly, obviously meat based generational society. And you had an unlikely encounter and outcome. Oh, my gosh. Tell me about. Yes. Yes. What the hell happened? This is why I'm so passionate about like working with and collaborating and just having conversations with people from like wildly different walks of life.

31:19So I did a plant-based seminar in Senegal a couple of months ago where I went over to my hero, Molly Melching. She runs a foundation called Tostan that does all sorts of early childhood education, FGC, abandonment programs. And I wanted to add a curriculum with the foundation on plant-based food, not because I was going in with like a vegan thing, because my experience in Africa, we've spoke about this. When I first went, I was blown away by just the collective nature of people. in general so it's very collective as opposed to like the individualistic values that the west tends to have more of like what's in it for me but then i would have to change this whole like self-centered kind of more egocentric so when i first went to senegal everyone was worried about what are you going to eat right and i was blown away that everything is plant-based except for there might be fish somewhere like Senegal.

32:16So I decided to develop this pilot program, which I did in December in Senegal, and brought a doctor, brought a chef, and it was a celebration of how innately healthy African food is. And we brought 19 NGO leaders from across, I think there was 16 African countries, and then a couple people from Europe. And one of the men that came is a tribesman from the Maasai in Kenya outside like 11 hours outside Nairobi in Naruk County. Amos Lioko, one of my new best buddies. But when me and Amos first met, it was hilarious because I said, what do you guys eat? And he said, meat, milk and blood. I was like, great.

32:59Tell me more. Because I didn't know, you know, I know a little about the Maasai culture just from reading Nat geo as a kid but this amazing amazing character just such just his desire to learn and expand and collaborate with people outside it's just so impressive because he comes from this really remote place and they're pastoralists by nature so like livestock is everything so we get talking about how hard i'm like how hard is it to get like water because we know in the mass animal agriculture like it just the caloric conversion just is already just ridiculous how much food how much water how much to get what we get out of it which is just ridiculous so add on top of that having to walk for hours to get water for not only the village but the cattle and then they're becoming more and more settled so they're not as nomadic as they would have been traditionally so i get into these wild conversations with amos about you know well what if we did a project where we did like a water comparison where how much water does it take for you to keep your herd of cattle alive for however long it is until you traditionally would slaughter them versus growing crops whether we do it vertically or on the land to feed x amount of your villages and he got so excited because I'm like well what's your crops like then we're like in this mad conversation and skip forward and we just put a well in place it's just being drilled as we speak because number one problem you have to solve is water in this situation because you can't expect people to like transition a food system if they don't have water available to do this so that's like step one and then we're going to do we're basically going to have four or five villages that are surrounding where the the well will be like a central place for all of them and have the villages do essentially a plant-based transition program to see also with health because my experience going back and forth now to different African countries over the past few years it's so shit that things like all these western non-communicable diseases that were never seen before like diabetes heart disease hypertension you know all this obesity in tribes and in villages that were otherwise completely healthy because how they eat traditionally is amazing and Africa is i've been blabbing on about this for a few years now africa has the answer to like why we're looking away from these amazing wise traditions that are in you know different continents too but it's there but what's happening which is frustrating the more i go back and it's happening really fast like it's rolling in that it's just quicker and quicker that the western food influence fast food hyper processed and with that comes the rise of all these non-communicable diseases and it's really crap because it's associated with affluence so it's really interesting having conversations with people across africa that like why do you want these brands why do you want this but it's it's marketing and it's getting in the head that like well if i have that it makes me appear to be more successful which is something that like should be stopped immediately because we should be looking to them for all of the food answers because it's amazing what's naturally grown they're absolutely amazing so the project with amos is really exciting because you could not find two more different people on the planet myself and amos but it's so fun and he's wide open to

36:34Darin Olien:this possibility yeah because okay everybody are you ready to upgrade your operating system i know i am i'm always game to do that not just physically but mentally emotionally and spiritually that's what we're doing over at super life patreon this isn't just behind the scenes membership it's a global experiment in conscious living that i am connected to committed with in every cell of my body each week you'll get exclusive access to deeper podcast conversations extended interviews voice notes from the road of me personally personal reflections behind the scenes footage community wellness challenges, and even surprise drop-ins that I no longer do on social media because I don't really dig it anymore.

37:30Darin Olien:We're talking decentralized healing, reclaiming sovereignty, ancient wisdom meets future tech, and a tribe of people with you walking the path. If you love this podcast, the Patreon is where we go deeper, get more real, and reclaim our power together. Join us at patreon.com forward slash Darren Olean. That's patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com forward slash Darren Olean, D-A-R-I-N-O-L-I-E-N. Join the movement, support the mission. Let's rise together. Also, you're talking to communities that have to live the everyday reality of drought, you know of just the hardship of actually having to seek out water that don't have you know even basic medical around it's it's a hard life it's a hard life so why make it harder when you now know that these foods are influencing your health and also you you have to build out infrastructure so that it makes sense that this can be monetized for people that can become a business it's empowering to all of the communities so working with amos is you know really exciting project because he's just so remarkable that this like absolute legend out in the Maasai tribe 11 hours outside in Nairobi and he's just like yeah I get it this is this is actually this makes sense let's try it wow yeah you'd have to come meet Amos oh my god that would be amazing like and and and you know to have someone who's open to receive different information is so huge because then he could take that to his communities and just because something is a way doesn't mean it needs to stay that way exactly exactly and same it goes both ways i learned so much being out there because we do so much wrong like and the amount of just wisdom that is in the most unlikely places that you know people turn a blind eye to and like you said like i don't know why but why why there's this like thumb down on continents like it's insane because it's like a lot of the answers are there as you know from your traveling in these older like just it's just absolute innate wisdom that we look away from it's ridiculous because we're in this fast pace like hedonic treadmill constantly and meanwhile it's like all the answers are there even in my own like Ireland's old ancient culture it's like if we actually just slow down put the brakes on and go hold on a minute yeah everything was the answers are already there we know it's not rocket science and we over complicate food and we over complicate how hard it is to be healthy or if it's expensive to be healthy bullshit it is not expensive to be healthy in some places it's harder to have access to the options but it's not hard and we've over complicated and then we've like all these we've we've gone into all these echo chambers and tribes but what's right what's wrong all these different diet fads it's i think that's why it's important i always separate like vegan to me is about ethics it's about kind of everything in my life making sure stuff's not tested on animals whatever it is products but whole foods plant-based is the food that's what we eat right yeah and that's health that's also ethics that's also integrity that's and and the fact that you know culture of the messiah is open to like it comes down to like like the fact that he was open enough to go oh what we're getting from these cows are obviously form of nutrients but if the nutrients can come in another way like because at a certain point like they had adapted to their environment of course right and and they doesn't it it means like yes of course they survived and were able to do the basic things but it doesn't mean it's ideal exactly it's like i remember talking demos about this like it's really hard for them when they lose cattle because you know there was a worse drought it's heartbreaking because it's they do love their animals in the sense that it's their entire livelihood and that's really really difficult So after all the hard work of keeping these animals alive and the amount of water and food that goes into that and then you lose them.

42:27I mean, that's harrowing. So why not try a different system where we know that we can because the food like that is right there. It's not that you are going over and introducing like kale smoothies into the mass. You know, or get your cordyceps or whatever. Not at all. It's like, I remember the first conversation with Amos is like, right, who do you know locally within your communities that knows native crops well? So like, what have you got? It's like black eyed peas and meat, all these types of beans. You're like, brilliant. You've got all the beans. Oh, my God. Not only are they great for the soil, they're like super healthy protein, clean protein source for you guys.

43:08All these crops, all these veggies, all these grains. Just insane. It's just that that wasn't how they were thinking before. So it's just that open-mindedness to go, okay, and we can use this little piece of land. Now we have water. We can even think about vertical farming so we can grow more for more abundance for the villages or whatever. So it's all down to open-mindedness when you're going around the world trying to collaborate with people from wildly different...

43:36Darin Olien:Exactly. But that's the beautiful thing about diversity and about slowing down enough to receive knowledge give knowledge receive knowledge share knowledge you know and then take action on that yeah and test it when when when does that testing happen when is that is that started so literally right now the the water is being tested because there's a whole process and where they are is quite high so it's harder to do the bore wells so there's a lot of like you test the water and drilling but the well should be in place within the next maybe two months and then it's a matter of like okay which land uh is being is is going to be the area where the crops are being grown and whatnot and this all spun off this wasn't planned like i met him at the seminar and then it was just you know everyone was amazing but we just really locked in on each other and his drive to just try this like there's there's nothing to lose right there's just nothing to lose and hopefully you will see you know all these other added benefits of the more whole foods that you add back into your diet you're going to see things in the community health-wise that hopefully will also inspire you to keep and this is not an all or not it's not like it has nothing got to do with just to clarify like going in and saying oh we're going to try and make the maasai vegan absolutely not right it's about their food is already absolutely amazing this is what everybody should be eating it's just especially now that they're settling as Amos you know generation has explained to me they would always be on the go they're you know transient nomadic but now they're settling and then this is what happens with people right just like historically we settle we become more lackadaisical we get you know we get fatter we get sicker everything becomes more convenient um so it's this interesting you're kind of going back to your roots in food because it doesn't work anymore this way and like you said it's this open-mindedness just because something has always been done this way doesn't mean we have to continue i mean if we look at that in general historically we should and will cringe at some stage when we look back but we have the opportunity now to like just go lightning speed into change because the way technology is and the way information is shared we know this we just have to as humans we find it really hard to make change because we think it's going to take something away from us which is not a good headspace yeah and also like i'm just i'm just like aware of the invitation that you were without agenda and the openness he received like that that's where judgment blame shame all of that stuff never works and i don't know why activism has taken so much of that point of view it's it's it's the obvious it's the most obvious thing in the world but then when people believe they're right and judge it gets the opposite result and then it doesn't do good for anyone but the fact that you had your openness and he also had had that and you shared that to then allow for something else to occur and and actually look and that's what we're missing in the world yeah like share this information and let's look let's use scientific method let's use our resources let's not just not go in blind right to like because i guarantee a messiah who's going to sit down and eat a kale salad is not going to feel good straight away yeah this is right because their diversity their microbiome they're all of this stuff for fucking generations yeah it's never so things need to be taken in over time but like the nutrition is in the plants yeah right from the ground from the all of that stuff so you know that's the beautiful thing and if there's anything to learn from and that openness and sharing and i just wish people would be like we you can't have the audacity to think that everyone in the world like that you're right and everyone in the world because we all come from wildly different backgrounds and i think that like i mean the whole philosophy around if i know one thing i know nothing is how we should always go like you want you should want to be learning from people even if you don't agree right because somewhere in that there's that's it there's like something in the middle of the fight or whatever and I think that's where activism can really go wrong because like I've spent my entire life trying to find a reason not to be vegan and I have yet to find it is the best way to put it because it's just based on how I'm not okay with cruelty to animals I'm not okay what it does to the environment I'm not okay but I also have to be realistic as I travel the world that not everyone can just implement that if you're talking about or just like change overnight so that's why this these kinds of opportunity wildly different cultures is so fun because if the openness is there what I can learn from your food that you have naturally there and what you can learn from like my experience in life and when we come together that's where the magic is right but you have to have that openness to have those discussions whether that be in food in politics whatever it is because we spend so much time fighting about the one thing that we fucking disagree on that we forget about the 99 things that we agree on as humans and it's just it's where we lose everything the battles in activism yeah yeah and and we disagree on the one thing that creates the separation for from everything and then we put yeah it's like more divisive it's insane and all these labels and all these diet types and all these political parties and all these identity politics whatever it is i was just talking to my friend about this this morning it's like we want to separate ourselves more where's my box right we're all human beings yeah yeah so it's it's not actually that complicated but if we're open you have to be open-minded and you have to be curious and you have to be okay with being wrong and that's absolutely okay exactly but then stepping in to the even the willingness to go i don't know but i'm i'm at least here to be curious and seek to understand and that creates the opening so and another thing like you you seem to be a walking invitation right so it's true and it's in some way because it's like you you know you're this you know rocker right that is also the antithesis of like the way your lifestyle is doesn't seem to match up with so that's already an opening because people lean in and also with your your favorite neighbor right this ex uh vietnam yeah vietnam veteran yeah Vietnam motorcycle.

51:02Darin Olien:I had the pleasure of meeting him, which was fantastic. It's like, wow. Bob is a legend. Right. So this, this guy that, again, there's, there's, if you were to put you and him together on paper, there's no way it matches. Right. It just doesn't match up. Um, but yet he has become a dear friend oh my god he's family yeah he's family and he's also now like eating eating better and part-time vegan as Bob would say yeah part-time so so yeah and and you're you know we can talk as much as you want about that project but because I know you're in the middle of it and we're talking about it and um but yeah share share with like the unlikely coming together of these two individuals yeah I mean how life unfolds sometimes I moved to the desert in COVID as a lot of artists did because we kind of didn't know where you know everything was going and I wanted to get out of LA and I moved to this little desert town and like an interesting blend of a town where there's a lot of artists and there's also a lot of what would be labeled as right-wing politics now i don't really i don't care what people are politically once you're a good person so none of that like is a decipher for me but it's just like just to paint the picture like there's a lot of like typically like political gardens with flags and whatever so a lot of people were saying to me you know sort of be careful in that town like the veg and immigrant so i move into this little town and my neighbors who i meet at the mailbox bob and his wife and um they're wonderful and you know they we don't know much about each other but i'm just like hey i'm a musician so it's not our houses aren't attached but like if i'm ever too loud just you know here's my number just tell me i'll turn down immediately i was like they're the best neighbors ever because they're like turn up like okay this is epic turn we love it the dogs love the base like it's super funny and i've yet you know it's my first experience to have a neighbor that's like turn up so i get to know bob and lee and they have a son jonathan that had cerebral palsy that they've been carers their whole lives and i was only living there you know a couple months and i'm getting ready to go on tour with white snake and unfortunately jonathan passed away which was somewhat expected he'd been sick his whole life um but lee shot herself the same day same day yes so Bob in you know one swoop lost his family and it was just awful I mean I have goosebumps every time even though I've told this story many times but so in that moment obviously Bob is you know right what what have we got to get into action here like it's just so harrowing what's happened so Bob is you know at my house as all this is going on and there's forensics and there's police everywhere.