Episode 326

29:24Oh, yeah. And sometimes he does get really mad when he's drinking. When detectives arrived at Isaac's home, they were met with a few surprises. First, they discovered that Isaac and Sabra had two young children, a one-year-old and a four-month-old. Yet neither of them seemed to be carrying themselves like parents. Are you surprised, or are you starting to recognize patterns yet? The day-to-day care of the children fell mostly to Isaac's mother, who also informed investigators that her son struggled with alcoholism and a history of violent behavior. Na-duh. How long have they lived here with you?

30:10Isaac's been here his whole life. Sabra has been here on and off for the last two years, three years. Is that about how long they've been together? They've been together four years. Four years. Okay. Once they gathered enough background information on Isaac and Sabra, detectives turned their focus to the night of the stabbing. They asked Isaac's parents what they knew about the party at the cabin. Do you know where Isaac and Sabra were at last night? There's no clue. Okay. Do you know what time they arrived back at the home? They showed up at about 5 o 'clock because they woke me up beating on the door.

30:49Okay, so they were beaten on the door, arrived back here at about 5 a.m. Did they say anything to you when they came in? Not really. Did you notice anything out of the norm? It just seemed like they were, like, irritated and, like, mad. Okay. Another thing that took detectives by surprise was the state of the home. You see, it was completely filthy. There was trash thrown about everywhere, and the stench of urine and dog shit was just overwhelming. Then again, this was Ohio. How long has your house been like this? So, I came up... As far as, you know, a hole here, there, and a wall, and this and that, trash in the yard, or what?

31:31I'm talking trash in the house. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've had a health time trying to keep everything cleaned up since, you know, we don't have any health at all. And, like, I'm recuperating from a heart attack, so... You just had a heart attack, and I was the one that had... I had a tester in there. And the ammonia level in your house is ridiculous. Concerned by the smell, detectives tested for ammonia levels inside the home. The results were off the charts, which is an extreme health risk, especially for children. When asked about it, Isaac's parents pointed the finger squarely at Isaac and Sabra.

32:10But the whole dog thing that they've had in that bedroom, the whole time that they've had that dog here, they don't take it out to use the bathroom or nothing else. They just use the bathroom everywhere. Yeah. After removing Isaac and Sabra from their disgusting home, officers transported both of them to the sheriff's office. Once there, Sabra was the first to be interviewed. My brother's the one who threw the party. For his birthday, right? Yes, for his birthday. And what's your brother's name? Don't like flack. Okay. And I already talked it with him. I was like, you know, because my brother and Isaac have had some issues in the past, but they were trying to get over it because my brother wanted to be more involved in my life.

32:52He wanted to be more involved in his nephew's life. And I was like, well, he's part of my life. You know, I love him. I want to work things out with him. He's the father of both of my kids. So he was like, yeah, that's fine. You guys can come. You know, just no drama. I was like, yeah, he's fine. He's probably not even drinking. And if he does, he's only going to drink a little bit because we have to go home. not have to open. Sabra began her interview by explaining how she and Isaac ended up at her brother Dalton's birthday party at the cabin. She admitted Dalton didn't want Isaac there, but she had convinced him that there would be no drama.

33:25That promise, of course, was broken. Sabra went on to describe how the night changed from fun and happy times to horrible, bloody violence.

34:03So I know he's not that type of person. And they're sitting here arguing. I'm trying to talk to Isaac to calm him down because I'm, like, one of the only people that can calm him down. I'm like, okay, let's just, you know, if anything, let's just go in your car, sit for, like, a couple hours, and then we can go home. And then they followed us outside. They all start, like, trying to fight Isaac all at the same time. I don't know exactly who it was because there were so many people. but I know that there was like three or four people trying to fight Isaac at the same time. Sabra's version of events clashed with just about every other witness.

34:42According to her, Isaac wasn't the aggressor. He was the victim. Backed into a corner and forced to defend himself against a group of guys just looking for a fight out of nowhere. Oh my gosh. And it was like ten guys, all my brother's friends, and this guy, I think his name is Clay, he pushed Isaac and Isaac went flying back into a car and Isaac, I don't know if he like pushed him back or what he did, but I tried to intervene and I was like, he's just trying to protect himself. Like there's like 10 guys jumping in and I was like, I was like, it's not his fault and somehow I fall and they're like trampling all over me.

35:27I have a big bruise on my knee. And then I still hear them fighting over here. And Isaac, he got in the car and he goes, Sabre, come on, come on, come on. Then I got in the car and he drove off because I think people were coming back at him. And he was like, what happened done? And so he just drove off. There was one glaring omission in Sabre's story. Did you catch it? I'll give you a hint. It has to do with pointy things going stabby stabby. Weird how she missed the most interesting part of the story, huh? Naturally, detectives pressed her about this. I didn't even know someone got stabbed until way after we left.

36:08And Isaac was like, I think I stabbed that dude. I think I stabbed him. I was like, what the heck do you mean? He was like, I think I stabbed him. I was like, oh my God. Isaac was like, you literally ran away. Like, That's not what you should do. Sabra claimed she hadn't seen anyone get stabbed and that she only heard about it afterwards. She wasn't too curious about it either. In fact, she doesn't seem to be too curious about anything, really. When asked where she and Isaac went after fleeing the cabin, she said they made a quick stop at a friend's house, someone named Justin, before heading home.

36:42So when you were at Justin's house, what did you guys do there? So we just stopped there to look at Isaac's car, and then I went in and peed, or used the bathroom. And then I came out, and I was looking at Isaac's car with him and Justin. They smoked a cigarette, and then we left, and then we went straight home. This brief stop at Justin's would eventually become an important part of this case. But more on that later. After questioning Sabra, detectives moved on to Isaac. Who are you living with? Mom, I stood in. I got a little brother, a little sister, and then Sabra and my two kids. And who's Sabra?

37:23My fiance. Okay, all right. And how old are your children? One is one, and one is four months. How far did you make it through school? About, I think, 11th grade. 11th grade, okay. Did you get your GED or anything? No, I went straight into concrete as soon as I turned 18. Okay. And I wanted to go and get a different career, but every time I go and I start different jobs, it's like, oh, well, put it off, put it off, put it off. Okay. I'm wanting to at some point. Okay. Detectives got more background info from Isaac, this overachiever. His criminal background wasn't extensive, but it was certainly concerning.

38:08Have you been in trouble or anything at all? Yeah. Okay. I got an assault charge on her mom. An assault charge on her mom? Yeah. How long ago was that? Uh, probably six months. Yeah, I cannot win with this family. I cannot win with this family, he said after admitting to an assault charge on his girlfriend's mom. You know, his kid's grandma. He says this matter-of-factly and completely unironically. I swear, you'll never convince a retard they're not a genius. Going forward, you'll start to see a pattern here with Isaac, if you're smart enough to see patterns. Nothing is ever his fault. So, I don't know if you guys came up here for a birthday party, is that correct?

38:56Yeah. So, what's your birthday? It was her brother's birthday. Me and her brother never got along. Okay. I was sitting there the whole time and it's like, I know this is a bad idea, but I want to make her happy. So it's like, you know, I will try to put my pride aside. Let's go ahead and go. We were there. Everything was good. Everything was completely fine and we're having a good time. Isaac claimed that he didn't want to go to Dalton's birthday party, but out of the goodness of his heart, he decided that being there would make Sabra happy. What a selfless stand-up guy he is. We were all standing right here in the hallway, and someone ended up pushing me.

39:43So I pushed him back. Well, Dalton thought that I pushed his girlfriend a lot. And so he got all pissed off. That's when everyone tried to join me. Well, I kind of knew what I'm doing a little bit. So I started throwing them to the side. I went outside, and that's when they started trying to come at me. It was all of them at once. Okay. And so I was just tossing them to the side, and they all just kept coming. So I went to my car, and I shut the door. I was like, hey, if you want to go, then we're going. Well, they came, and they got them past their car, and they took her sunglasses, or no, her actual glasses and her purse out.

40:27trying to keep her to stay there. And I was like, well, with everything going on, like, I'm going to leave. Much like Sabra, Isaac's version of events clashed with every other witness. That's because absolutely no murder in the history of mankind has ever started with a completely innocent dude getting pushed and mobbed at a festive gathering for absolutely no reason. But don't let common sense smack you across the face. Once they start sitting there trying to bust the glass to get to me, And that's when I pulled out a knife. I was like, hey, you need to back up. And they didn't want us. No one was.

41:05So you were in your car. So what did you do? Did you open the car door back up? No, they ended up opening my car door. They did? Yeah. It was two to three guys were sitting there, and they were just yanking on it. I was trying to hold it as good as I could. They didn't want us to. So I was like, listen. And just started poking out a little bit. Okay. I didn't try to do it to physically hurt anybody really bad, but I did it just to like poke. Like, hey, have a knife. Calm down. They wouldn't stop. They just kept going. So I tried to stab the one guy in the arm just so they would get him. So he was right there beside you?

41:43Yeah, he opened my corridor and he was coming to try to grab me. He was coming to try to grab you? Yeah, that's why I stabbed his arm. Well, as soon as I stabbed him in the arm, they left. The other two guys took off completely. Okay. And that's when Sabra got in the car and I took off. Isaac also claimed that he only stabbed Charlie in the arm. But the detectives obviously knew better. After all, they weren't retarded like Isaac. They of course knew Charlie had been stabbed multiple times all over his body. This was a careless lie on Isaac's part, and one that would make him look way more guilty.

42:48away. Because there's 15 guys that are in front of you. Stabbing someone as a preventative measure. Yeah, okay. After giving this bullshit version of the stabbing, Isaac went on to tell two more lies that would later come back to haunt him. So did you go, where'd you go after that? I went straight home. Okay. Your knife. You don't know exactly where you put it? They're looking for it in your car right now. I have no clue where it is. It's either in my car or it's sitting out of that property. Not only did Isaac's story contradict at least 10 other witness statements, but it didn't even align with Sabra's story.

43:31These two idiots couldn't even get their story straight. He told detectives that after the stabbing, he went straight home, conveniently leaving out the stop at Justin's house. Naturally, detectives were curious about why he would lie about that. They planned to reach out to Justin and question him about Isaac's early morning visit to his house. But before they got the chance, Justin called them. My friend showed up to my house like 3.30 this morning, drunk. And he was flipping out, like saying that he got jumped at some party that he was at. And he had to use a knife on someone. And I told him he didn't want him here.

44:12I told him he needed to leave and turn himself in because he can't just make something like that go away. And he threw the knife over there. Justin told detectives that Isaac tossed a knife into a bush near Justin's driveway. Police then recovered the weapon, which was still spattered with Charlie's blood. In a follow-up interview, Justin also revealed something else. Isaac had talked about returning to the cabin to do even more damage. He did say stuff like that at your house? Kind of. It was more of like he just wanted to go back and beat up the other people that were trying to jump him. Okay, all right.

44:52As the investigation deepened, more of Isaac's lies unraveled. Detectives learned that after ditching the knife, he and Sabra made yet another stop. This time, to visit Sabra's mother. So they did end up coming to your place? Yeah, they were there 15, 20, I don't even think 20 minutes. He's just talking about how he was going home to get what he needed and he was going out there and finish it all off, finish the rest of it off. By now, detectives had gathered multiple witness statements that pretty much proved both Isaac and Sabra had lied about what led up to the stabbing, the stabbing itself, and what they did afterwards.

45:32But the most damning evidence was still to come. There is a camera on cabin six, is that correct? Yes, sir. Would it have been recording at all or doing any kind of recording last night? It records video, but not audio. It's not about to record audio. I need that video preserved, and I need to get that video here at our office as soon as I can get it. Detectives contacted the owner of the rental cabin, who turned over surveillance footage from a motion-activated camera mounted on the front porch. Though it didn't capture the stabbing, it revealed the moments leading up to it. The footage showed what several witnesses had already described.

46:18Near the front porch of the cabin, Dalton's friends physically held Dalton away from Isaac to keep him from fighting. At the same time, a group surrounded Isaac, gesturing for him to leave. There's no audio, but the body language is clear. They weren't looking for a fight. Then Isaac threw a wild punch at the crowd. It missed. Someone shoved him back against a parked car. A few partygoers then grabbed Isaac and carried him towards his car, right out of the camera's view. See how that series of events actually make sense? Or are you also from Ohio? Yeah, I'm talking to you. This footage was pretty important, as it showed the partygoers were not trying to hurt Isaac.

47:05They just wanted him to leave before things got worse. But this wasn't the only video that detectives recovered. Well, I flew off the porch so fast, and I ended up on the hood of my truck, because I thought Isaac was going to hit my car. Okay. So I started recording the video in the circumstance that he hit my car. Okay. And I captured the entire stabbing. Remember Amanda Chapman? She's the young woman who rushed to Charlie's side after the stabbing. She had the presence of mind to pull out her phone and hit record when the fight started. What you're about to hear comes from Amanda's cell phone.

47:42These are the final seconds just before the stabbing. Get your head! Get the fuck out of here, bro. Hey! Fuck the fuck off! Hit my car! Watch it! Stop it! Stop it!

48:01Get in the car! He's in your car! Ugh, savages. Amanda's footage begins with Isaac halfway sitting in the driver's seat, his door cracked open, and his one foot on the ground outside of his car. Several people are trying to close the door, but Isaac resists, pushing back against them. People are shouting, get the hell out of here and get in your car. No one is threatening Isaac. No one is swinging. They just want him gone. Charlie Starner is among the voices. The video shows him bracing against the door trying to keep Isaac in the car. Then, without warning, Isaac grabs a knife from the center console.

48:48He stands, slips partway out of the car and opens the blade. What follows is horrifying. In the audio, you can hear the metallic click of the knife being opened right before Isaac swings again and again, plunging the blade into Charlie's back, neck, and anywhere that Isaac can reach. Fair warning, this next bit of audio is not an easy listen. Go! Get the fuck off! My fucking car! No! The video cuts off, but witnesses filled in the rest. After the stabbing, Charlie collapsed. His friends dragged him away while Isaac slammed the car door shut and sped off with Sabra. Or whatever the fuck her name is.

49:37Later, more surveillance footage surfaced, this time from Justin's house. On it, Isaac can be seen tossing the knife into a bush before disappearing into the night. Isaac had already lied to detectives during his first interview, but now, armed with this overwhelming evidence, they questioned him a second time and they had some devastating news. What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody. What? He's dead. And then I died? Yeah, he died at 8.31 this morning. The world lost a father. He leaves behind a nine-and-a-half-month-old son named Jed. Okay? A mother and father lost their son.

50:19A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there to try and save his life. He died at Grant this morning and you're facing murder charges. Roughly five and a half hours after the stabbing, Charlie Starner died at Grant Medical Center in Columbus, Ohio. Despite the doctor's best efforts and emergency surgery, Charlie's heart gave out. With his death, the case shifted and got a whole lot more serious. Both Isaac Pence and Sabra Flagg were now facing murder charges and a lifetime behind bars.

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52:32On April 23rd, 2023, 20-year-old Isaac Pence and his fiancée Sabra Flagg were taken into police custody after a night of violence at a cabin party that left 22-year-old Charlie Starner dead. Isaac and Sabra lied repeatedly during their first interviews with detectives, hoping to cover their tracks. But when detectives brought them back for a second round, this time armed with overwhelming evidence, their lies began to unravel. They started with Sabra and quickly broke the tragic news that Charlie was dead. So, mother to mother, you love your children, right? Yes, for a while. Okay, and you want to see your kids again someday, right?

53:18Yeah. Because today, somebody's actions made it so a mother lost her son, a father lost his son, somebody lost their boyfriend, okay? Several friends lost another friend who bled out at the hands of someone that you care about, and you know something. I really, I don't. You were there. Yeah, but I didn't know he got stabbed. I didn't know that until after he left. I swear. If you're trying to protect this man, you're going to go down as an accomplice for murder. I'm not, I promise. You know something, and your allegiance to this man is going to get you nowhere, because let me tell you, he's going to prison.

54:01I didn't. I swear on everything, I did not know he got stabbed until after we left. I'm not trying to protect him at all. So what did he say after he stabbed him because you guys drove away together? He had to have said something. He didn't. He really didn't. He said, I don't even think he said anything. He just got in the car. I got in the car. I didn't know. And I didn't know until 10 or so minutes later that he said, I think I stopped someone or I stopped someone, something along the lines of that. I didn't know because if I would and none. I want no less, I promise. Detectives confronted Sabra with the harsh reality of her situation.

54:40But she continued to resist coming clean. She maintained her efforts to downplay Isaac's behavior and minimize what he had done. He died. He's dead. He's gone. I know. I'm not a good price. I'm freaking out. So, I wouldn't have to know. Your honesty today is the is the paramount of what we need now, okay? I spoke with your mother on the phone. So did I. I'm not. Your mom wants you to be honest. I'm not. You know he's violent against women, correct? He's been violent before against women, correct? He was violent against your own mama. Talk about Isaac. So, yes, he did push my mom. He did what? He pushed my mom.

55:25Pushed your mom? Because he went to court for it. You told me earlier that he would never do that to a woman. I totally forgot about my mom. I'm so sorry. It's your mom. How can you forget about your mom? You're trying to protect him. I'm not. I'm going to tell you that I talked to his parents and they said that he's an explosive, angry, violent drunk. He is. He is. He's never been like aggressive to me. He just he gets aggressive and he'll like he punches back when she'll he he does stupid things when he's drunk. I always first swim with that. This was another lie. Out of all the detective interviews, Sabra was the last one.

56:09The very last person to admit that Isaac had a habit of becoming violent when he drank. I'm going to tell you right now that my specialty is domestic violence, sexual assault, and crimes against children. And the living conditions that your children are in are crime. A deplorable, sickening crime. I'm 35 years old and I could barely breathe in that house. I went to where you sleep. Like, do you think that this is normal? That this is an okay situation? Is this what you want your babies growing up in? Definitely not. We were trying to save up for an apartment or a house. We were just trying to find somewhere to go of our own because we don't.

56:55They blame the mess on Isaac and you. There's dog feces everywhere. The ammonia in that house is horrible. We've made a referral to have your children emergency room. I'm going to tell you that. the living conditions, the trash, the bugs, the cobwebs, the lack of running water. That's, it's not normal. Your babies are going to get sick. And if you care anything about your babies, take to heart what Lieutenant McKnight is telling you. I'm going to tell you, you know how I know you're full of shit. You went to your mom's, you went to Justin's all before you went back to the house. I talked to your mom.

57:37I did go to my mom's. I totally forgot. I'm so sorry. Are you forgetting because you were drunk? Are you forgetting because you were high? She's forgetting because she doesn't want to tell us the truth. Sabra was smacked with more and more evidence that exposed her bullshit. And it just kept coming. You told your mom you were going to come back to the house. As a matter of fact, you said you were going to stop by Isaac's house and you were coming back to the cabin because you were going to get your shit. You texted Horizon. I saw the messages. You said, I need my purse. I need my shoes. I need my glasses.

58:11If I don't get those things back, I'm calling the cops. Those were your priorities, not, hey, my man stabbed somebody. How's that kid's condition? Not once today have you asked about how he was. Not one time. You have no care. I do. I swear. Oh, did you know that he has a 10-month-old son? I didn't. Named Jet? I honestly had no clue. So now you left another baby without a parent. Just like your kids are going to be left without their parents, because you guys are going to go sit in prison for the next 25 years to life for murder. When faced with a lengthy prison sentence, the only thing these idiots understand, it seemed like the detectives had finally broken through to Sabra.

58:56And she agreed to tell the full truth. At least that's what she claimed.

59:28Anything. When someone says they're being completely truthful, that's a sure sign they're not. Sabra continued to insist that she hadn't witnessed the stabbing, and the cell phone footage somewhat supports her claim. Though the video is dark and grainy, it seems to show Sabra distracted, focused on something else, and not looking in Isaac's direction when he attacked Charlie. It's possible she didn't realize the stabbing had taken place until after they fled the scene. That said, there is a moment just before the stabbing where Sabra reaches into the center console, and it looks as though she may be handing something to Isaac.

1:00:08This raised the question, did Sabra provide the murder weapon? Unfortunately, the view of the center console is obstructed, so we're not likely to get an answer to that question. In truth, once Sabra agreed to be completely honest, her story didn't change very much. The biggest shift was in how she talked about Isaac. Faced with a looming threat of prison time, she suddenly seemed far more willing to throw him under the bus. Me and Brie going downstairs, we were wanting to go in the hot tub, and I was like, well, I don't know if Isaac will freak out or not, because he's very, you know, he doesn't like, if I'm in a bathing suit around a bunch of guys, he's very jealous.

1:00:51So controlling. Yeah. Then all of a sudden I hear people arguing constantly. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? So we all run back into the house. And it's like a big huddle of people. I'm trying to figure out who was arguing. And then I realized it was Isaac. I didn't know who he was arguing with. They were trying to push him out. And I was like, okay, let's just go. Like, let's just go. And he was sitting. He was like, no, just shut the fuck up. I'm sitting here arguing with people. He was sort of cussing other people out. I'm just like, come on, let's go. And I was crying. I was like, just please, let's go.

1:01:30And he was like, no, fuck this, fuck that, fuck everyone. Unlike her first telling, Sabra now admitted that Isaac had been the aggressor at the party. Surprise, surprise. This version of events was far closer to the truth. Did he tell you where he stabbed him? No, he said that he thought he stabbed him in the arm. That's what he said. And I was like, OK, like, did you stab him anywhere else? I don't think so. Do you know that this gentleman was stabbed six times? I did not know that. He was stabbed in the jaw right here, in the side of his neck, around his back, twice in his chest, and another one in between his head and his neck.

1:02:10Oh, my God. He shouldn't have stabbed anybody. It should have been a calm, cool, collected night. This was one night that me and him didn't have any kids. I mean, I know that you guys hardly ever have your kids because Ginger told me she's raising your kids. You guys go and do however you want, whenever you want. She's stuck with these kids. She's raised all of her own. I know. You know, you guys are going out and drinking and living your lives up like you don't have kids. And this made me realize I need to step up and be a better mom. I mean, I hate to be the very bad news, but you're not going to get the opportunity for a long, long time.

1:02:49Not only is the state going to have custody of your children, you're going to jail today. Am I really? Yeah. What? If you're not telling us the truth. I didn't. If I have my way, you're going as an accomplice to murder. With our updated story on record, this dumb bitch was handcuffed and taken to jail. Next to face off with detectives was her fiance, Isaac Pence. You were at a house party, kind of walked me through the events of the evening. Well, throughout the night, it was all completely fine until everyone got way too drunk. I was standing in the hallway and someone got in my face. So I pushed him out of the way.

1:03:26And then that's when about 15 of them all wanted to come outside and try and jump me. And who got in your face? I'm not even sure who it was. Okay. Who did you push out of the way? I pushed that person out of the way and they fell into a rise and they tried to say that I pushed a rise. because as soon as she got touched, everyone just flipped. Because, oh, he just pushed her all over the world and started running at me. At this point, Isaac was completely unaware of the mountain of evidence that detectives had gathered against him. And he didn't know that Charlie Starner had died. So, naturally, Isaac stuck to his lies.

1:04:03After I get in my car, they all started trying to rip my door open. And once they got the door open, I just grabbed my eyes real quick. I was like, go. get away and they weren't listening so I went inside show to put him in the arm okay you stab him once in the arm and what happens after that he kept coming so I stabbed him again so you stabbed him a second time and what happens pretty sure that he left I kind of blacked out after I got him the second time because I stabbed him I was like holy shit and then I just kind of blacked out. I think I just done twice as them left. Conveniently, Isaac slipped into the tired excuse of blacking out.

1:04:48Funny how sharp his memory had stayed, right up until the point where he stabbed someone to death. Take off from there, and where do you go? Oh, I think. Try that again. No. Okay, so it went to Justin's house for a second. Okay. Then from Justin's house, it went to her mom's house. I think we went home. So I'm going to tell you the only thing you have left in this world is your integrity. You know what integrity is? Do you know what integrity is? I love that. Yeah, your honesty. And I'm going to tell you that I have found about 40 little holes already in your story. The last thing I want is your bullshit.

1:05:30Okay? Okay. What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody. What? He's dead. And my daughter. Yeah, he died at 8.31 this morning. The world lost a father. He leaves behind a nine-and-a-half-month-old son named Jet. Okay? A mother and father lost their son. A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there to try and save his life. He died at Grant this morning, and you're facing murder charges. I didn't know that. He did, because you didn't stab him twice. You stabbed him multiple times. way more than twice. I've talked to your mom.

1:06:12I know you were a very violent, explosive person. I know you drink almost every weekend. You left her in the care and custody of your two children, Draco and Waylon, who are 13 months and four months old. I've been inside your bedroom. I've been inside your car. I've had a very deep conversation with your girlfriend, your girlfriend's mother, and everyone that was at that cabin. You get one shot at this with me, and that's it. You want to start over? Let's go. Detectives hit Isaac with the same reality check they'd given to Sabra. Afterwards, he appeared slightly more willing to tell the truth, but much like Sabra, he couldn't stop trying to minimize his actions.

1:06:50How much did you drink last night? Um, I think I drank a 12-pack of Miller. I took a couple shots of Hennessy and a bottle of cream. It's like green, sour, apple, snubs. You drank a lot of alcohol, knowing that you have an explosive personality when you're drunk. And if I tell you that I have literally witness statements, written witness statements of you two-handed pushing a rising. That's what they're trying to say. Okay. And you're telling me that that's not true? I don't think that I pushed her. Is it possible that you could have pushed her and you blacked out? given the amount of copious amounts of alcohol you drank?

1:07:34I could have, but I really, I do not believe that I did. Do you think it's okay to put your hands off the amount? No. Ever? No, I ask the sisters. Okay. Do you think it'd be okay for your sons to do the same? No. Would you like it if they'll unsheath Sabra? Now, I remind you, this is the same guy that had just recently gotten out of jail for assaulting his baby mom's mother, his children's grandmother. So, take that with a grain of something. Isaac claimed that he didn't or couldn't recall shoving Dalton's girlfriend to the ground, which was the act that ignited the whole night's chaos. Unfortunately for him, multiple witnesses, including Dalton's girlfriend, said that he did.

1:08:18He pushed you onto the ground inside the cabin? Yes, right by the door. Two open hands? Yes, he barely shoved me. Okay, by your chest or? Yeah, like my shoulders and chest right here. After Isaac shoved a Rison, Dalton understandably exploded with anger. And from there, the night spiraled out of control. Dalton comes to you and says what? He was just freaking out. And he was going to beat my ass and everything. And then once he did that, everyone else jumped in. And there was about five, ten people. And we went outside. and they were all trying to hit me. What if I tell you that I have surveillance video of them just saying it's time to leave, it's time to leave?

1:09:03No, because when we went, because that's where I got all this, is where they're hitting me. Well, a scuffle ensues, but they're trying to push you out of the cabin. And Sabra's telling you it's time to go. Oh, I don't remember it. Okay. Once again, Isaac's selective memory failed him, but the evidence was clear. Nobody at the party wanted more violence. Witness after witness confirmed that everyone simply wanted Isaac to leave. In the house, I was trying to stop him from fighting and screaming at each other, and we were just trying to get him to leave Isaac. Everybody was just telling that kid to leave.

1:09:42Surveillance footage from the cabin backed up the witness statements, showing several people dragged Isaac toward his car, trying to get him away from the situation. And when you get in your car, what happens? That's right, when you grab the knife. He's pulling on the door, I think. I'll tell you that I have a footprint that tells me they were trying to close the door. Does this sound familiar now? You're trying to get back out of the car. You have one foot out, or you're trying to push open the door, and somebody takes a foot and closes the door. I have a footprint to corroborate that and a dent in the side of your Equinox.

1:10:22that says they were trying to get you back in the car. Okay. Do you remember any of that? No. At what point do you reach for the knife? I'm not completely sure. Okay. And you, what happens when you grab this knife? I think I just start stabbing him. How many times do you think you stabbed him? I don't know. Okay. Did you say anything as you were stabbing him? I couldn't tell you. Did you say anything after you stabbed him? I think I just left. Not only did the physical evidence contradict Isaac's claims that he was being attacked, but Amanda Chapman's cell phone video clearly showed the exact opposite.

1:11:09People were pushing on Isaac's car door, trying to shut it. They weren't trying to pull him out. Isaac was the only one looking for a fight, shoving back and trying to force his way out of the car. Tragically, he succeeded with a knife in his hand. Because what was your next move when you left that cabin? Once my buddy's house. And what did you say when you got there? I don't know. What if I tell you that I had you on surveillance at his house and I have all the camera footage? And you literally look at Justin and say, I just fucking stabbed this guy. Is that right, Bill? okay what do you what do you do with the weapon when you're there because certainly it wasn't in the car or at the scene like you told the detectives you knew exactly where the murder weapon was the whole time but you told us the knife is definitely in the car it's definitely at the scene the whole time you sat here knowing that we were on a wild goose hunt You just didn't think we'd find a knife, did you?

1:12:18No knife, no crime. Is that what you were hoping for? No. The fact that Isaac hid the murder weapon became a key piece of the case. It showed a clear consciousness of guilt. Isaac could claim memory loss all he wanted, but his actions and the lies he told afterwards spoke volumes. I either threw it in the bush or I threw it. Why would you throw it? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, and where's Sabra? She was just sitting in the car. I think she was watching TikToks on her phone. Watching TikToks on her phone, knowing her boyfriend just stabbed somebody. It's pretty normal behavior, right? I mean, hey, you went home and took a nap.

1:13:02Like, it was just another day in the park for you, right? No. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I stabbed somebody. I was too drunk and didn't really remember when I got home. But not too drunk to drive. Not too drunk to dispose of the murder weapon. Not too drunk to try and cover up your tracks. Surveillance footage outside Justin's home captured Isaac ditching the knife in some nearby bushes. Interestingly, Sabra was inside using the restroom when he did this. Meaning, once again, it's very possible Sabra didn't know Isaac had hidden the weapon. This was another lucky break for her. As for Isaac, he wasn't ready for the night to end.

1:13:48After disposing of the knife, he planned to return to the cabin. This time armed with a gun. And then I remember going home. Me and my stepdad got into it. What did you guys get into it about? I think I was trying to get into the gun safe. Why were you trying to get in the gun safe? I think to go back there. And do what? No. Finish the deal? No. Why else would you go? I think it was just to scare them because they wouldn't jail me. So you went home and you're rattling the gun safe trying to get into it? Took a hammer to it. You took a hammer to the gun safe. Okay. And what happens? My sister tried to grab me.

1:14:33And I was telling him, hey, stop, stop, stop. And we ended up getting in a fight over him. Did you punch him in the face? He blacked his left eye. You know about that? You know that he just had a heart attack. And he's raising your kids. Again, stabbing somebody wasn't enough today. He went home and assaulted an old man. On top of all the things you could have done. Finally, after stabbing Charlie, hiding the evidence, and assaulting his stepfather, this drunk and dangerous ass clown passed out in his own bed. He woke later that morning to the sound of police knocking at his door. So here's the problem with this whole thing, is that not one time today have you or Sabra asked how that kid is, right?

1:15:22I was thinking about it. I just didn't want to ask. Why not? I didn't want to hear it. Did you have any inclination? I have a feeling. Did you know his name was Charlie? Yeah. Charlie was just an innocent guy at that party. You never met Charlie before that, did you? You grabbed Charlie by the neck, and you didn't stab Charlie two times. You stabbed Charlie six times. The side of his neck, right here on his face, twice in his side, once in his back, and somewhere in between his head and his neck. And you left. You left Charlie to lay there and bleed out on the ground. Charlie didn't die right away, but Charlie, he coded out in a trauma bay.

1:16:09He made it in an airplane to a hospital in Columbus, made it through the surgery, and then he could put his heart beat out. And you know what? His kid isn't the only one left without a dad because Draco and Waylon aren't going to have their dad either. They're not going to have their mom either. She went to jail today. What's she going to do? Complicity to murder. Because she knew it. She didn't do anything about it. Isaac and Sabra were charged and booked into jail. Initially, both faced murder charges, but eventually Sabra's charges were downgraded. According to court documents, Isaac Pence has been arrested and charged with murder.

1:16:47His girlfriend, Sabra Flagg, is accused of leaving the scene with him and lying to detectives about what happened. She's charged with obstructing justice. Pence and Flagg were in court this morning and both pled not guilty. The judge is keeping them both on a$1 million bond each. Sabra later accepted a plea deal. She served just six months in prison for obstructing justice, and as far as anyone knows, she's now a free woman. As for Isaac, he took his case to trial and he lost. He was convicted of murder and a long list of related charges. His sentence was 18 years to life. In my humble and ultimately meaningless opinion, that's far too lenient.

1:17:33Isaac could be a relatively young man if he walks out of prison one day, this time as a felon and a convicted murderer. What happens next time he picks up a drink? Whose life will he destroy then? And what judge will completely skirt responsibility for letting him out? As frustrating as Isaac's sentence is, there is another detail that makes this case even harder to stomach. Isaac and Charlie didn't even know each other. They were complete strangers. Charlie died because he happened to be standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that he had never met. That's how easy it is, folks.

1:18:21That's how quickly it can all end. And how did Charlie get involved in this whole... That's... he was literally just standing right there. As far as I know, he was standing right there by the porch and... So Charlie and him had no beef prior to this? No, I don't even think they talked. Okay. So he just kind of was the unlucky... Yeah. ...victim in all of this. Charlie's starter was just 22 years old. He was a young father, a soon-to-be husband, and by every account a good man who loved his family and friends fiercely. His future was full of promise, but all of a sudden it was stolen in an instant when he tried to do what good people so often do.

1:19:09He stepped in, hoping to calm the situation before it got worse. Charlie wasn't reckless. He wasn't looking for a fight. He was trying to protect and he was trying to help. And that one moment of courage cost him everything. The unfortunate truth is that sometimes the safest choice and the smartest way to protect yourself is to step back when danger bares its teeth. But this case isn't a warning against being brave or helpful, or being a good Samaritan. It's simply a brutal reminder that evil doesn't need a reason to destroy what's good. And you never know what someone else is capable of, or how quickly a night of drinking and partying can spiral into something deadly.

1:20:01Sometimes all it takes is being in the wrong place, facing the wrong person at the wrong time.

1:20:15Thank you.

1:20:49You know that time when you're done recording an episode of Soren Scale, it's fresh off the presses, you're ready to put it out? But you just know, you just know deep down inside that some fat monstrosity with a septum ring and clown hair is going to accuse you of being a misogynist simply because you called a dumb bitch dumb. Well, you see here, maybe I am a misogynist. Maybe I am. Maybe if being a feminist means you side with someone just because they have a pair of tits like you do, despite not having a brain, or I don't know, morals, means we gotta stick together girls. Just remember this little lesson we've hammered into your brain over and over and over again.

1:21:38beware of the company you keep if you side with idiots with loose morals then maybe that's exactly who you are too but who am i other than just a dumb male kind of like the other idiot in this story which i don't side with at all because i'm not a mailist or whatever they're called because having a brain is more important than having a