Episode 333

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28:26On September 2nd, 2019, 46-year-old photographer Victoria Schaefer was killed at Hocking Hill State Park when a log fell from a cliff and brutally struck her in the head. At first, this tragedy appeared to be an accident, but it quickly evolved into a murder investigation. This actually happened back on Labor Day of last year in 2019. And at first, everyone thought it was just a terrible act of nature. A log comes rolling off a cliff in a wilderness area, and then it evolves. And we pretty quickly find out from investigators that it was maybe not an accident. And I think that shocked everyone.

29:05After weeks with no answers, investigators finally identified a suspect, a 16-year-old high school student named Jordan Buckley. According to one of Jordan's classmates, he had admitted to doing something terrible at the state park. Investigators went to Logan High School, took over a conference room, and invited Jordan to have a conversation with them. But now that I know what this is about, this is, I was there that day, I think, I don't know what day it was, but I know it's like September. so this last month me and my friends were I know you're nervous and you're going to get it all out that's great we want you to get it all out just let me finish up a few things right here and we'll let you talk as much as you want nothing really happened.

29:56When Jordan was brought in for questioning he seemed eager to tell his side of the story and talk about the day that Victoria died. That was of course perfectly fine with investigators.

30:36of the hill and we came back because some guy told us that someone got smashed by a branch. So we turned around and we went down towards the bottom part and then we came back up and there was a bunch of like EMS people going past us and sirens and everything. Really? Yeah, so we just let it go. Jordan explained that he was at Hocking Hill State Park with three of his teenage friends, Jaden Churches, Miranda Spencer, and AJ Warren. Jordan claimed that while they walked the trails, a man came running past them and warned them not to continue on the path they were on because someone had gotten hurt.

31:15So the four teenagers simply turned around and left. Yeah, we were on top and then some guy came up to us. I don't know who it was. It was an African-American guy. He had long dreads. And he came up to me and he said, don't go that way. And then I asked him why. And he said a branch fell down and smashed some woman. and I said, a branch. She said, yeah, like a tree branch fell off. So we went down and then we walked down the stairs and then we just came back and went home. You were bored? You were bored? Yeah, we were bored. It's all we've been there. Nothing really happened. Naturally, the investigators were skeptical of Jordan's version of events and they knew he was leaving a whole lot out of the story.

31:56Jordan? Mm-hmm? I want you to be honest with me, okay? Yeah. Before we come in here, we've already got our answers. We ask a series of questions that we have answers to. So, this is the time to come, Clinton, and cause. There's some allegations that brought against you. What were they at? Well, you was there. You confirmed that you was there. We knew that you was there. So, there's more to this story. Tell us about the branch being up on top. Well, I didn't do anything. I just don't like snitching on people. That's the problem. This is the time. This is not about snitching. This is about telling the truth.

32:46And telling the truth gets you further than not telling the truth. We were, me and Jayden, walking all the way farther down. Like, clear to the end. Not for the metal bridges. This guy did say that to us. But we did end up going back down. but I skipped a part of what we did we walked all the way down to the end of this and Jaden kicked off a branch not a branch it was a log it was a big log like by this wide this long we kicked it and it rolled off the cliff and it made a loud bang so we ran and we ran into Miranda and AJ they had no idea we didn't tell them that long yes that long that long He just kicked it.

33:27He didn't pick it up, push it or anything, he just kicked it. It took investigators less than 20 minutes to get Jordan to break, and to get him talking about the log that killed Victoria Schaefer. Though, his account of how the log ended up rolling off the cliff didn't make much sense. He claimed that his friend Jaden had simply kicked it. But investigators knew that couldn't be possible. I don't know if he, I wasn't like paying attention to what he was doing, so I don't know if he intentionally kicked it or if he like stumbled on it. Did he pick it up first and carried it? No. He didn't pick it up at all, not that I saw.

34:02How did he get on the other side of the tree? I had no idea. That log that you just pointed to me. Mm-hmm. Right? It was laying right here. There was a pile of them, right? Yeah. There was a tree, two of them. Remember those? There was a tree on this side, and it was in between these trees. It was laying like this, and then he kicked it. The evidence at the crime scene told investigators that the log had been moved before it dropped from the cliff. Its original location was several feet from the cliff's edge. There was simply no way that a single kick or even several kicks would have caused it to fall.

34:54You didn't acknowledge that? Yeah, I just didn't think anything of it. So do you know what happened? Not really. You had no idea? Not really. So when you sent a text to your girlfriend at the time? I mean, yeah, I got, well I knew what happened, but I didn't know what happened to cause that, like completely what happened. Like I was there with my friends, but I wasn't the one that did it. And I know that it killed the woman when it fell down on her. And I heard the loud bang, and I saw Jayden run, and I was running with Jayden. So why didn't you call 911? Why didn't you do anything? Because I was freaking out, and I thought I was going to get in trouble for it.

35:36Okay. And I didn't want to get charged against me for, like, involuntary manslaughter or something. So you have researched this? No, I just know a lot. Not only was Jordan's story impossible, but investigators could tell he had already researched the criminal charges he might face if the truth came out. And that wasn't all. The investigators knew that Jordan and Jaden had made a secret pact to stay quiet about what had happened at the park. In other words, the murder they committed was supposed to stay between them. You and Jaden talked anymore about this? Nope. You guys didn't make a pact and say, hey man, I'm never going to say anything.

36:20You got to keep this a secret. Well, yeah, we did say that. That's why I told you that story. But then after I realized the severity of it, I could get in a lot more trouble for his actions if I'm the one not doing anything. And I don't want that to happen. So I kind of texted the agent and was like, dude, something's going to happen. We're going to get caught. I said, I don't know what you want me to say, but I'm not getting in trouble for you. I said, I won't tell them, but if they ask me, I'm not going to completely lie and get myself in trouble. And then he said, okay, I'm not really worried about it.

37:00As you might expect a teenager to do, Jordan put all the blame on his friend, insisting that Jaden was solely responsible for what had happened. He also claimed that Jaden seemed proud of what he had done. You could hook me up to a live detective test. I didn't kick it. I didn't throw it. All Jaden told me was I'd kick Loghoff. Like, I would. I'd swear on everything. You didn't put the live detective test on me, and I'll say the same exact thing. Because that's exactly what happened. Did Jaden say you did it? Yeah, Jaden says, Jaden's told me that he did it before. And it's, what did the girls say?

37:34Yeah, he said that in front of him. He said, I already caught a body by the age of 16. So you, my father, was this funny? He said what? I already caught a body at the age of 16. He said this was funny. I don't think it's funny. I think that's the only reason why I'm telling you all this. I think it's serious. It's very serious. Someone lost their life for someone being stupid and messing around. According to Jordan, Jaden had said, quote, I already caught a body at the age of 16. If that was true, investigators figured they might be dealing with a complete sociopath. But more on Jaden in a minute.

38:13As for Jordan, investigators already knew he had admitted to throwing the log. Not to them, but to another one of his friends. So naturally, they wanted answers. If he hadn't touched the log, why tell someone he did? Jordan explained he was simply trying to impress a girl. Because apparently, bragging about murder is how you get pussy. Can we get some dads around here? Nah? And the one person I told was Bailey. What did you tell her? I told her that me and Jayden threw a ball off. Okay. But I was just saying that they were cool. Because I thought it was cool, but it's not. After I realized the severity of it.

38:57And he looked cool. He's going to be a shit. Charged was murder. I know. But that's what I'm saying. And if it comes down to it, I would literally take a lie detector test for this. Like, if you guys do not believe me, I had nothing to do with it. And I did not kick or touch that log. Why didn't you still get saved something? Because, I don't know, I was freaked out about it. Because I thought it was just all going to go away and everybody would have forgot about it. You're going to forget about a death? No. I just, I don't know. You ever see what a woman looks like with her head mashed open? No.

39:29Do you want to say it? No. Yeah, that's the thing. irresponsible act. I know. Four kids without a mom. Husband without a wife. Grow up. It's time to grow up right now. I know. If there's anything you got knocked towards, anything you held back, anything you don't want to tell us, maybe you guys were kicking the log together. You got to tell us right now. I did not kick that log with him. I swear on everything. Did you touch that log?

40:04So I touched the log to move it out of the area. To move it out of the area? To move it, it was right in between these trees and he pushed it out. And then I helped him push it out, but he kicked it down and I didn't kick it. So I did touch the log. So you didn't help him? No, I didn't know he was going to kick it off. I helped him pull it out, yeah. Once again, Jordan's story changed. He still insisted he wasn't the one who threw the log, but he finally admitted to moving it. But even with this admission, Jordan's story still didn't make much sense. What if I told you that I had a special computer that come in called the Google Station that reconstructed this whole scene, puts the trajectory of the log going over the edge, and the possibilities of what that log weighed and what the possibilities of one person throwing it versus two people?

40:55I don't, I mean, if you want to, you can. You can do that. Oh, yeah. You just didn't tell the truth. I didn't throw it off. I swear on everything. You didn't tell the truth. I am. I'm telling the truth. I didn't throw the log off. Yes, I am. I'm telling the truth. I did not throw that log off. You helped him? No, I did not. I did not throw the log off. Is it possible for him to pick up a six-foot ball? But I don't know. I didn't throw the log off with him. I swear on everything. Did you grab one hand? Did you grab the other hand? No. All I did was drag it. That's the only thing I did. There were several things about Jordan's story that were either implausible or impossible.

41:34First, there was the size and weight of the log. Six feet long, 75 pounds. It wasn't likely that one person could have thrown it alone. Especially a scrawny little juvenile shit like Jordan or Jaden. Second, just below the cliff where the log came from, there was another ledge. A protruding rock formation. For the log to clear that, it would have taken serious effort and force. The most likely scenario is that both Jordan and Jaden moved the log and threw it together. Just two teenage boys experimenting with gravity. Because that's the extent of their intellect. Miranda and AJ would tell you that I had thrown it off too.

42:25It was Jaden. He threw the log off. you pour it back and then you threw it off. Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to throw it off. With Miranda and CJ watching. Yeah, but I didn't know he was going to throw it off. So every time we talk, we get a little bit different story. Now Miranda and AJ's there. Initially, Jordan told investigators that the girls he was with that day hadn't seen anything. But like every other part of his story, that turned out to be a lie. His friends, Miranda and AJ, had seen exactly what happened. and investigators questioned them both, starting with the 15-year-old, A.J.

43:00Warren.

43:25there, you know, and so they dropped the log to the ground, like onto the cliff that we were on, and it rolled back off. So we started walking away. A man started walking, or was pacing and running. He said that a woman got hit with a large branch or log, and he believes that she didn't make it. that she was dead. So, you know, we obviously were very, you know, shooken up about it and didn't know what to do. We knew it was wrong and we knew that whether it wasn't intentional, you know, they weren't trying to hurt somebody and they weren't trying to kill somebody. Putting it mildly, AJ's version of events made a lot more sense than Jordan's.

44:25But one critical question remained. Who actually threw the log? Who touched the log now? Jordan picked it up. Well, didn't pick it up, but he grabbed it from one end to make it stand up. And they were going to push it off. So then Jayden looked and they dropped it on, not off the cliff, but onto the ground. And it rolled. It fell back off the cliff. So let me get this straight. Jordan's holding this wall on its end. Okay, he's picked it up, he's standing on the end and he's holding it. You're stating that Jaden went over, looked over the edge to see if anybody was over there and stated that he couldn't see anybody.

45:10Is that right? Yes, sir. Okay. Now what happened? Jordan just... Jordan's still holding this wall? Yeah, he's still holding it. Okay. And so Jordan let go of the other end. Not pushing it around. So he's holding up. Yeah, he's holding it. Let's go. Let's go. Not pushing it or not kicking it over the edge, but he lets go and it hits the ground. Like if we were further from the edge and he dropped it, I don't think it would have rolled off, but it was closer to the edge where he dropped it and it just rolled back off. Jordan lets go of it. It falls, goes back to the ground, and rolls off. Yes, sir.

45:52100 % positive. Absolutely, 100%. That is what happened. Whatever I remember, yes, sir. But that explanation didn't add up. It wasn't likely that simply releasing the log would have given it enough force to clear the ledge below. To complicate things further, the other witness, 19-year-old Miranda Spencer, gave investigators a similar story, but with the roles reversed. She claimed Jordan only looked over the edge to make sure no one was below, and it was Jaden who actually sent the log off the cliff.

46:48He's the one who pushed it off. Jaden pushed it off? Yes, Jaden pushed it off. Jaden was? Yeah, Jaden. Jordan didn't touch the lawn at all. Had anybody in your party touched it prior to that to move it to that location? No. Like AJ, Miranda was adamant about what she saw. But their accounts didn't match. And investigators wanted to know why. What I'm saying is what happened. Like, I'm not kidding. How about the log? How long was it? Who held the log? Who moved the log? Jayden moved the log. He moved the log. Jayden moved the log. Then what did Jordan do? Jayden said that he looked over the ledge and said that there was nobody down there.

47:35So Jayden pushed it off because he didn't think he was going to hurt anybody. But Jayden rolled the log 100%. These conflicting accounts didn't make sense. AJ was certain that Jordan rolled the log. Miranda was just as sure it was Jaden. How could either of them be wrong about something like that? And if someone was lying, the question was, why? Your story and Miranda's have one major flaw in the city. You can't figure that out for the life of me. Why? I'm not going to say what it is, but you just can't figure out for the life of me why. there's one major difference here. I have no idea. Everything I told you is exactly what I remember from that day.

48:28As investigators tried to make sense of the conflicting statements from AJ and Miranda, they also had a decision to make. What should they do with Jordan? And what charges would he face? Am I going to get arrested? For what? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if there's any charges that I can get for witnessing a murder.

48:54I know, but I wasn't the one that voluntarily did it. I didn't. It wasn't my fault that it happened. What happens? You and him go rob a store. He shoots and kills a clerk. Well, I get in trouble for being with him. You get charged for murder, CBC. So I'm going to get charged for involuntary manslaughter for murder? I consider just murder. So I'm going to get murdered for this? Same thing. Before investigators could move forward with any charges against Jordan, there was still one critical step left. They needed to talk to the other teenager, the one who had allegedly bragged about killing someone.

49:36They needed to question 16-year-old Jaden Churchess.

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52:18On Labor Day 2019, 46-year-old Victoria Schaefer was killed when a six-foot log was thrown from a cliff at Hocking Hill State Park. The investigation led to two 16-year-old boys, Jordan Buckley and Jaden Churches. Jordan had already been questioned, but his version of events wasn't just questionable. It was impossible. Next, investigators sat down with Jaden in the same school conference room where they had questioned Jordan. But this interview came with one key difference. Jaden's mother was also in the room.

52:57That's he. I'm Troy and I have known you're a investigator for a few. Hi, I'm Tammy. I was in a good mood when I got here. I sat in there for two hours. Yeah, we're sorry. You're in there. Are you kidding me? I've been sitting there for two hours waiting on you guys. Oh, we were busy. I know. I got to take work. I got to take that. He would have been here if I knew it was going to take two hours to talk to you. When Jayden's interview started, there was already a good bit of tension in the air. His mother was frustrated. She'd been waiting for hours before investigators were ready to speak with her and Jaden.

53:30And the tension only grew from there. You can't hear us, so we can record it or something? Well, everything we do is audio-play. Oh, and I can record it too then, right? Absolutely, yeah. Oh, good. About ten minutes into the interview, and just after investigators read Jaden his Miranda rights, a school employee stepped into the room to bring Jaden some lunch. They're out of chicken and sandwiches. Would you like something else? No, just take it. Every time he eats lunch here, they're out of everything. After Jayden's mom made it clear she was ready to complain about literally everything, the investigators finally got around to asking Jayden some questions.

54:09What do you like doing? Riding my bike. Right. Go where? Lancaster Skate Park. Okay. The BMX place right beside the pool. Like going out to hiking. Do anything? I mean, I like to hunt. I like to duck hunt. That stuff, but hiking. I like walking a lot, so I just ride my bike a lot. At the same time, my friends. Who's your friends?

54:38Johnny, Cole, Garrett Mace. Just a lot of football players. Interestingly, when Jaden was asked about his friends, he left out one important name. Jordan. Jordan? What's Jordan? I know a lot of. Jordan. Buckler. Buckler. Buckler. Buckler. I mean, he's a great under me and I hung out with any board. Which I didn't, you know, we've been beating around the bush and I'm just going to get straight into it. There's been some, there was an incident at Hocking Hill State Park. I know that you was there. Yeah, that's how it was there. Okay. Tell me about that day. get pulled up. We're about to go hike and go down and look around.

55:25And then some dude comes running back. And he's like, somebody just got hit with something. And he thinks he's dead. So we're like, what? And we turn around and we leave because we don't even want to go down there and see it or anything. And then once we're walking out, there's like The ambulance is pouring up and all this. Who was with the Miranda? The Miranda and AJ. The initial stories that both Jaden and Jordan gave investigators were nearly identical. When they were first asked what happened, neither of them mentioned the log being thrown from the cliff. At least, not until investigators confronted them with it directly.

56:11It's almost as if they had rehearsed what to say. Before we come in here, we already have all the answers. Might be one or two that we don't know. We've already talked to people. A lot of serious accusations have been brought against you. And this is the time to tell the truth, to help yourself. Because right now, it's really serious. Really, really serious. And you need to be honest. Because we know a lot more than what you think. And you need to talk to me, sir, in private. Was this an accident? Because he's underage. He's underage and it sounds like you know exactly what happened. So maybe you should go tell me exactly what happened and then I will talk to him.

56:53Because I don't like you saying that you knew what happened. Okay, then you know who did it and what happened. Good, then we'll go in the other room and you can tell me if he participated in this. That's not how this is going to work. It's not? No. I wonder if this mom's name is Karen. It should be. Your son did something. The result in a death of a lady. No. Yes, ma 'am. No. I can prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Then somebody ought to be proving it to me before they're saying something like that to him, because that is very upsetting to me. What we want to know, was this an accident? There's always two sides of a result.

57:29I'm not liking this. I don't like this one, they won't. I don't like it either. Neither does the family or the lady that... Excuse me, I know that. I have felt very bad about that. That is sickening to me. And I have even said this is a horrible thing, that for you to sit here and say that he had something to do with this? He's married to each other. Jaden's mom became understandably distraught. She tried to step in and defend her son, but there wasn't much she could do except sit there and watch him take the heat. I want to know, was this an accident? Or is this something that you meant to do?

58:02Because that's a big difference. If this is an accident, were you trying to do this? It's one thing. I didn't do it. I was there. Okay. So tell me what happened, step by step. Like, basically what I was saying. When we walked up by the stairs, Jordan walks, like, we were walking, and then there was a log, and he kicks it, and it starts to slide. So you're saying Jordan kicked it out? And then it slid, and then we left. Unsurprisingly, Jaden pointed the finger at Jordan, just like Jordan had done to him. He claimed Jordan had kicked the log sending it over the edge of the cliff. So much for that secret pact they had made to keep this quiet.

58:52Isn't that right, Jaden? I know about your pact with Jordan. You guys already had this rehearsed. Did you touch the log? Because we've talked to Jordan. I grabbed the log. Okay, so you touched the log. I touched it, but I did not kick it off our throat. You know what happened to it? How did that smash the lead? He got kicked off the edge. Who kicked it? Jordan. Jordan kicked it? Yes. Are you sure? Yes. Once again, investigators were put in a difficult spot. Each suspect was blaming the other, and all they could do was keep pressing Jaden for the truth. Yeah, I did not kick it off. Did you turn it off?

59:34No, sir. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm giving you the answer to your asking.

59:44I'm being very patient with this but it sounds like you're trying to talk him into saying something that he's being honest with you. I'm trying to talk him into telling me the truth. But he just talked you what happened. No, that's not the truth. So you're trying to get him to say something that... I'm trying to get him to tell us the truth is what I'm trying to do. Not a trick. I don't understand. You have his phone, you have... We're just trying to get him to tell us what happened. Because at the end of the day, that lady lost her life. I know that. I'm very sad for that. I'm very sad for Tammy.

1:00:18I was sick to my stomach when I heard about this. And then to find out that he was there. The investigators kept pushing back, but having Jaden's mom in the room didn't make their job any easier. So should I arrest Jordan today for homicide? Because that's what's going to happen. We better do the light detector test first on Jordan, don't you think, before you arrest him for homicide? It doesn't matter what he says. You guys have to do it. Don't care. Just talk. Like, detective talk. You think I would let you arrest him? Like, Jordan's here, so don't let you arrest Jordan without a light detector test?

1:00:59We don't have a choice, miss. In the United States, there's a thing called probable cause. You know what? I don't have a choice. So you're just going to have to get an attorney with a minimum wage, two jobs that I work, because you know what? We do have choices. That happened in a lady died. I know this lady died. When you get the lie detector test set up for him, then you'll just have to contact me. As for now, Jayden and I will be leaving. That's my correct. You can leave. Jayden's going to place him under arrest. No, he can't be. He's 16 years old. He did something that resulted in the death of Ms.

1:01:39Schaefer. Where do you think you're going to take him? Juvenile detention. No! That's how serious this is. Jaden remained adamant that he hadn't thrown the log. And every time investigators pushed him to admit otherwise, his mom stepped in. You've got to be completely honest. This is your life. I know. Ms. Schaefer's life is already over. I know this. We gotta make her life right. And I told you what happened. I told you who kept it off. You can notice that before killing all of us to a lady's head, your head explodes. Are you gonna show him a picture of that, too? I don't have a picture of it.

1:02:16Good. That's pretty... Do you wanna see it? I can show you what your son did. Excuse me? I'm asking. What, my son did? Yes, ma 'am. There's witnesses to this. There's not witnesses. They're all saying each other did it. Until you have some pretty good stuff, then I don't want to believe any of that. I don't want to see some lady's head splattered. I don't want anybody to be injured. So who do you think should be accountable for this? Whoever did it. Whoever was responsible for making the law go over the cliff. Exactly. I would agree with that 100%. Yes. You know, whether the kids were playing, whether it was, I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose because they were playing.

1:03:06If they were playing. If this was an accident. I'm sure they were just going to say, I want to kill some lady, let's throw a lull on her head. I mean, who does that? Jayden's mom and the investigators continued to butt heads, but in the end, it was a losing battle for both sides. Jaden's mom couldn't stop her son from being arrested, and investigators couldn't get him to admit he had thrown the log. Eventually, Jaden and his mom were informed that a judge had already signed off on Jaden's arrest. He was going to jail, and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it. You know what that's doing to me?

1:03:45That's hitting me in the head with a log. You cannot do that. Because you can't take him to jail. There's bad people there. Well, there's not good people in jail. There's bad people there. Why did you say he's in the long of the head? Because you're trying to take him away for something that you can't take him. Madam, again, this is not me. This is the prosecutor's office. This is the actual prosecutor and the juvenile court judge. This is out of my hands. You're just going to take him out of here with him right now through this school? Yeah. How's that make you feel? It hasn't made me feel very good at all since the beginning of this.

1:04:21September 2nd at 620 when I got that phone call and I seen that lady. It has not made me feel good at all. This doesn't make me feel good. Do you know what? I have raised this boy for 17 years by myself, and this does not make me feel good. Why would you take him out of his school like this in front of these people? He's never been away from you. You can't just take him down there. Yes, ma 'am, we can. So stand up and replace him. No, you guys. I'm going to be here if I have a court date. If I say he's told to me. Jaden was officially placed under arrest. And when the handcuffs came out, his mom all but lost it.

1:05:00You know he's going to pay handcuffs or something on him? Maybe that's her policy. Oh, my gosh. You've got a great way to start off your life when you're 17. Can't you just, like, walk him out there? He's not a criminal. Ms. Schaefer is 46 years old. Pardon me? Ms. Schaefer is 46 years old. I know how old she is. I've read. What are you telling me that for? You're saying he's 17. You know, I feel really bad for this lady that's gone in her family. This is not good to do to our family. Jayden had the benefit of having his mom in the room during his interview, while Jordan had to face investigators on his own.

1:05:39Though Jordan did get to call his mother, and the difference between the two parents couldn't have been more stark. Were you a part of it, Jordan? I didn't like push it off but I moved the log with him I pulled it out I didn't know he was gonna kick it off though but a woman died why did you not tell Chris and I this because I freaked out mom I freaked out it doesn't matter I've taught you to do right Jordan a woman lost her life and you knew it. Always coming first is what you do. So I want to ask him for his DNA sample. It's just a swab of the mouth. Yes, yes. I mean, if he's in the wrong, he knows that I've taught my kids that they take the punishment.

1:06:29Okay, so we have your permission to take that swab? You have my permission to take his, yes. Okay. On one hand, Jaden's mom was ready to defend her son no matter what he may have done. Jordan's mom, however, seemed ready to hand Jordan over the police on a silver platter. I'm not a parent, so I'll reserve my judgment on this one. You guys don't like it when I judge anyway, so you judge for yourselves. Who handled it better? Who is the better parent in this situation? I know you'll have your own thoughts. Leave them in the comments. After Jayden was arrested, investigators took Jordan back to Hocking Hill State Park.

1:07:13Once there, they walked him through his version of what happened the day Victoria Schaefer was killed. Though much of his story still didn't add up. How did you move it? With my foot. Well, I grabbed it at first, and it wouldn't move, so I took my foot and I pushed it like this with my foot. I was just messing around. I wasn't even going to put it back. I was just messing around. on the board. And he was high. That's probably why he did it. And then after it went off, it rolled and it bounced again after this. That's where it kind of went over that and bounced. There's a lip right there. So I hit the lip and it bounced.

1:07:49That's why I bounced. I knew it bounced, but I didn't know why. So that's why I thought he threw it. But he did say, I'm going to throw it. After this happened, I kind of just realized the severity of it and how someone lost their life. Like, how would I feel if that would happen to my mom when she was taking pictures of me or something from my singing pictures? That's not fair to them to not know the answer to it. And that's why I feel bad. During this walkthrough, Jordan claimed he felt bad about what happened. But let's be honest, it was a little late for that. If he really felt bad, he would have come forward.

1:08:24Instead, he made a pact with Jaden to keep the murder quiet and even bragged about it later to impress a girl he liked. not exactly the behavior of someone with a guilty conscience not exactly the behavior of someone with a conscience period so what do you think should happen to you um well i'm hoping that i don't get anything too extreme but i know that i'm probably going to get charged for being a witness and saying anything about it well being a witness you don't get charged with any witness. Yeah, but I charge if he did something or if he lied about it. Well, that's what gets you in trouble.

1:09:03I haven't lied about anything so far. Jordan claimed he hadn't lied about anything so far. In reality, he'd lied about nearly everything, right up until investigators called him out. At first, he left out the log entirely. Then he claimed Miranda and AJ hadn't seen what happened. After that, he insisted he never touched the log at all. None of this was true. All of this begged a question, what else was Jordan lying about? Our victim was down here with her head bashed in. Okay? So it's impossible for that log to roll off and then we landed here. It had to have trajectory and have force, some kind of force, to get out this 10 foot where she was at.

1:09:50So right now, this is the time. I'm trying to be I need the truth right now. I'm trying to tell you some kind of thing. So if you're standing there and I'm holding this log that he was thrown out, whoo, where she was at? He is 100 % right. So this is the point in time where you tell us either you seen him do it, you both did it, or it was more than two of you. But whatever happened needs to come out now because we can't help you if we don't have it. I did not do it. I did not do it, and Miranda and AJ had nothing to do with it. One of the strangest parts of this case was how all four teenagers described the log as simply rolling off the cliff and not being thrown.

1:10:31But that didn't make sense. For the log to land where it did, it would have taken considerable force. The reality was, someone or multiple people had to have thrown it. And none of the teenagers could explain that inconsistency. The only thing that made sense was that both Jordan and Jaden picked up the log together and flung it off the cliff. I didn't help him do it. I don't remember what he did to get it off. I just know Jaden did it. Why don't you remember? I don't know. You can remember everything else, but you can't remember that specific detail. Yes, that's the only thing that I've had trouble remembering the whole time.

1:11:10That's the only thing. Be in my shoes right now, okay? You can remember everything, but you can't remember that specific detail, I'm sitting here thinking, man, it happened so fast. It happened so fast, I turned around. He said, I'm going to throw it off. I turned back around, and it was already going down. Another unanswered question was why the two female witnesses pointed fingers at different people. Miranda said Jaden threw the log. AJ claimed it was Jordan. Miranda even went as far as saying Jordan never touched the log at all, which made no sense. considering Jordan himself admitted that he helped move it.

1:11:50Jordan has admitted to moving. Jordan didn't move the log. He admitted to me. But. Why would he admit to me that he moved the log? I'm telling you that Jordan, Jaden, was the one that moved the log. Like, that's what I remember. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like, me and Jordan have no connections. Like, I don't like Jordan at all. Miranda, I took Jordan to the scene. we done a walkthrough. I'm just telling you what I remember. He was telling us how he moved the log where he was standing. I'm not lying though. I'm telling you what I remember. And if what I remember is wrong then I can't help that.

1:12:29But I'm trying to tell you as much as I know. I can't help that. Investigators later suspected that Miranda was lying to protect herself because of a prior romantic relationship she had with Jordan. When they dated Jordan may not have reached Ohio's age of consent, which was 16, by the way. Yeah, Ohio sucks. It's possible Miranda did not want to implicate Jordan, fearing he might turn around and expose her. She may have been trying to avoid facing statutory rape charges. Do you have any relationships with the police? Jordan. Jordan? Yeah. Do you understand that we're not here about you having sex with Jordan?

1:13:19Yes, I'm telling you I didn't have sex with Jordan. Miranda admitted she'd been in a relationship with Jordan, but denied ever having sex with him. Nonetheless, Miranda was never charged with any form of sexual assault. Instead, she was charged with obstruction for lying during the investigation of Victoria Schaefer's murder. Miranda Spencer of Nelsonville received a suspended 90-day sentence. She pled guilty to obstructing official business. In court, Miranda changed her story. Instead of blaming Jaden, she claimed she couldn't remember who touched the log or which of the boys had sent it over the cliff.

1:13:58As for Jaden and Jordan, both were indicted on charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter, and reckless homicide. Despite being just 16, both were charged as adults, meaning they were now facing the full weight of the criminal justice system. They ended up both taking plea deals where they would plead only to involuntary manslaughter in exchange for having the other charges, murder and reckless homicide, dropped. 17-year-old Jordan Buckley walked into court with his family and pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter. How do you plead? I plead guilty. Buckley then stood up, turned and addressed Victoria's family, including her husband Fritz.

1:14:45I understand that my actions that day have caused your things to change. And my hope from all of this is to use this trauma to learn and live the rest of my life in a way that will honor the Shakers. Both teens took plea deals. In exchange, the murder and homicide charges were dropped, and their cases were sent back to juvenile court. At their sentencing hearings, both Jaden and Jordan offered weak apologies to Victoria's family. First, I wanted to apologize to Ms. Schaeffer's family. I know that no matter what I say, nothing will bring your loved one back. I know what I did was wrong. I hope that you know I never intended to hurt anyone that day at Hawking Hill.

1:15:37However, I realize now that my actions can have unintended consequences. I want to let you know that I think about this decision for the rest of my life. I have learned from my wrongful actions and will take this opportunity to become a better person and hopefully use this experience to help others. At the sentencing, Victoria's family members took turns speaking. Her younger sister was first to address the court.

1:16:30life. But I'm angry that the individuals responsible did not immediately come forward, in fact, hiding the secret among them for over a month until someone else turned them in. Next to speak and deliver a truly heartbreaking impact statement was Victoria's husband. Victoria's death was so tragic, so devastating, and so senseless, it's unimaginable. And whatever Whatever I say here today won't come even close to describing how painful this has been for me and for my family. The night before she died, we were up late and she was editing photos. It was probably after 1 a.m. She didn't have to get up early.

1:17:11The next day was Labor Day. She was looking forward to going to Old Man's cave and doing the photo shoot with her senior reps. We were lying in bed and she was in my arms. She told me something she never told me before. She said the happiest part of her day was at the end of the night, and she was in my arms. She told me she loved me and couldn't wait to spend the rest of her life with me. I loved her more at that moment than ever before. And the next night, she was gone. The loss Victoria's family endured was unimaginable. But despite their grief, they agreed to the plea deals that had been offered to Jaden and Jordan.

1:17:52I want to first clarify how we came to this agreement, because it was very, very difficult. We said we'd think about it for a few days. My children are very compassionate, and what ultimately helped us make the decision to offer this one deal was that Victoria was a very compassionate person, and we all felt that she would have wanted to give them a second chance. In the end, it was the compassion Victoria had instilled in those around her that likely spared Jaden and Jordan from a lifetime behind bars. During sentencing, Victoria's daughter read an impact statement written by Victoria's mother.

1:18:35In it, Jaden and Jordan were offered only one path to redemption. I need to know that you will do your very best to turn your life around. I need to know that when you are released from the sentence, you will have become a man who will make a contribution to the society, not just take from it. This is an early chapter in your book of life. I sincerely pray for you that Victoria's loss will not be in vain. Let this tragic circumstance catapult you to even greater goals that you can imagine today. that you will dig in and dig deep to meet the challenge of becoming a great man, a man who will bring honor to Victoria to make up in some way for one you so carelessly have taken from all of us.

1:19:22Let the story of your life proclaim to all that you understood the gravity of your actions and that you did all in your power to be a credit to society. Only that will satisfy. The forgiveness and the compassion that Victoria's family showed in the court was truly remarkable. Far more than they would have gotten from me, that's for sure. The guilty pleas were entered and the impact statements were made. All that was left was for a judge to deliver a sentence. The pain that you heard from them, indescribable. Indescribable. I can't. I get angry listening to it, so I don't know if I could be as forgiving as they are.

1:20:08Do you understand? Yes, sir. Do you understand that you took a mother of children your age, your same age, that you took their mother? Do you understand that? Yes, sir. A wife, sister, and that's a void that can never be filled for them. now you're going to have some time to sit in DYS. You understand that, right? Yes, sir. But you understand you're getting a second chance here now because they are forgiving. You understand that, correct? Yes, sir. I'm not. You understand. And you understand that that's not an option to Mrs. Schaefer back, correct? You're getting a second chance because she did not get it.

1:20:50In the end, both Jordan Buckley and Jaden Churches were sentenced to just three years in juvenile detention. a slap on the wrist, if there ever was one. As for the biggest question of all, who actually threw the log? The truth is, no one seems to know. Investigators couldn't prove it either way, and neither Jaden nor Jordan ever admitted to it in court. Maybe Jaden did it. Maybe Jordan did it. Maybe they both did. Or maybe that detail doesn't matter as much as we think, because at the end of the day, both teenagers were legally responsible. Both of them made a choice to move, shove, kick, roll, or throw a 75-pound log off a cliff, a log that came crashing down with enough force to shatter a skull and take Victoria Schaefer's life in an instant.

1:21:47And both were held accountable in a way that reflected the wishes of Victoria's family. So, what else is there to do? The conclusion of this case doesn't come with a whole lot of satisfaction. That's for sure. It's messy. But, usually murder is messy. There are still unanswered questions, and the whole thing feels unfinished. But sometimes, that's the only justice there is. And sometimes, you know, that's just life.

1:23:00I can't believe this is our 13th year. It's absolutely madness. I did not think this is how my life was going to go. Let's put it that way. Anyway, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being a fan, a listener, supporter, whatever. Any little thing you guys do, we appreciate. I promise you. Even if it's just hitting a like button on a video or leaving a comment. It's all very much appreciated. Thank you so much for being here. I hope 2026 is a wonderful year for all of you.

1:23:47Yeah. Yeah.

1:23:53Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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