In short
Episode 356 of Sword and Scale centers on the 2008 murder of 21-year-old Brittany Zimmerman in Madison, Wisconsin, and the long investigation that led to charges against David Call.
Guests/backgrounds
The transcript does not name any podcast guests. It mainly features narrated case material and interviews with Brittany’s parents, Kevin and Jean Zimmerman, plus detectives and David Call.
Key claims
Brittany was killed after a forced entry into her apartment on April 2, 2008; her fiancé Jordan Goring found her and called 911. The case was mishandled for years, including delayed/withheld 911 information and lost investigative momentum. DNA evidence eventually linked Call to the crime, including DNA on an anonymous letter envelope tied to him. Call was later charged with first-degree intentional homicide and ultimately pleaded guilty.
Notable examples
911 calls (including a struggle/screaming tape later released), a panhandler “flat tire” lead, two other suspected burglars (Mitchell/Michael and Hank), DNA matching to a prior burglary, and Call’s later confession/plea describing following Brittany, breaking in, and killing her (including strangling and stabbing).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Tragic Case of Brittany Zimmerman
1:03 to 2:19
Exploration of the lingering impact of a daughter's unsolved murder.
“and is not intended for all audiences, listener discretion is advised.”
The Day of the Murder
2:44 to 8:11
A detailed account of the day Brittany was murdered from various perspectives.
“The winter snow is finally giving way as the weather warms.”
Emergency Response and Discovery
8:11 to 14:01
Jordan discovers Brittany and his desperate call for help unfolds.
“She would be a doctor right now that she wanted to be, and we would be proud of her, and we could go visit her on her animal farm and everything she wanted because she loved animals.”
Emergency Response to Brittany's Scene
14:01 to 16:47
Learn about the frantic emergency response as Brittany's condition is assessed.
“Stay on the phone with me so I can tell you how to help her, okay?”
Investigation Begins: Discovering the Crime Scene
16:47 to 19:04
Explore the initial findings and confusion at the crime scene after Brittany's death.
“When detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused.”
Impact of Brittany's Murder on Her Family
19:23 to 21:53
Understand the emotional and social ramifications of Brittany's tragic murder.
“They started to make contact with the neighbors and left dashcams running to capture anyone walking in the area.”
Identifying Potential Suspects: The Flat Tire Caller
21:53 to 24:41
Learn about the suspicious man who may be linked to Brittany's murder.
“I don't know if you can transfer me to a non-emergency line or if I should tell you.”
Profile of David Call: A Key Witness
24:41 to 28:00
Discover the background of David Call and his potential role in the investigation.
“What were the time frames of when she called and when we had done this call to 517?”
David Call's Testimony
28:00 to 33:04
Learn about David Call's account of the events surrounding Brittany's murder.
“I think that maybe you might be a witness to some things that you can help us out with.”
Investigating the Suspects
33:04 to 35:04
Discover the police's efforts to trace two men linked to the crime.
“No, not the things that we're talking about here today.”
Show all 22 chapters
DNA Evidence and the Ongoing Search
35:04 to 39:00
Understand the implications of DNA evidence on the investigation.
“In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii to help fund a reward.”
Public Backlash and Media Scrutiny
39:00 to 42:00
See how public demand for transparency affected the investigation.
“Yeah, we've got a bunch of stuff we're working.”
Concerning 911 Call and Outrage
42:00 to 43:54
The sequence of events surrounding a 911 call reveals critical details about the case.
“Then they heard what sounded like someone saying stop, along with the sounds of what could only be an assault.”
Investigating DNA Evidence
43:54 to 46:18
Detectives revisit the evidence and DNA findings related to Brittany's murder.
“Around this time, the case also lost its first lead detective, who transferred out of the department.”
David Call's Interrogation
46:18 to 49:54
The tense interrogation of David Call reveals inconsistencies in his story.
“I mean, you know, I've cooperated all the way with you guys.”
New Developments in the Case
49:54 to 53:12
The investigation experiences ups and downs with new tips and evidence.
“I've been cooperating like I say since the get-go.”
Confronting David Call Again
53:12 to 56:00
Detectives confront David Call with DNA evidence, prompting a shift in his memory.
“But before moving forward, police returned to the one man they had never been able to rule out.”
The Memory of the Crime
56:00 to 57:40
Explores the recollections of David Call regarding Brittany Zimmerman's case.
“I believe I had a glass of water and then I left.”
The Charges and Evidence
57:40 to 59:00
Outlines the criminal charges filed against David Call and the evidence collected.
“David Call, a 53-year-old male, has been charged in Dane County Circuit Court with first-degree intentional homicide as a party to a crime and with a dangerous weapon.”
The Crime Unfolds
59:00 to 1:02:50
Describes the events leading to Brittany's murder and the killer's actions.
“Finally, David Call was charged with first-degree murder, intentional homicide.”
Family Impact and Sentencing
1:02:50 to 1:07:30
Recounts the emotional toll on the Zimmerman family and the court proceedings.
“Then David Call addressed the court and the family with an apology that was anything but sincere.”
Changes in Law and Legacy
1:07:30 to 1:09:20
Discusses the legal changes prompted by Brittany's case and its implications.
“It was always about trying to do the right thing, which was what Brittany's entire life was about, was doing the right thing.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00The 2026 FIFA World Cup meal at McDonald's is underway with one of nine legendary cups in the lineup Christian Pulisic, David Beckham, Laminya Mal, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, Son Hyung-min, Alfonso Davies, Santi Jimenez. And between the posts, it's Grimace. Get one of nine collectible cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026. Laminya Mal steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez. gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal.
0:40Ronaldinho sees Son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026. Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences, listener discretion is advised.
1:15Madison, small. Yeah, I'd take off. I mean, if I would have killed her, I would have been gone. You guys have never found me this day. I would have never even went back to my apartment. I mean, that seems logical, right? Yeah.
1:29This is season 13, episode 356 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.
2:18We'll be right back.
2:25Plus, save$80 on the DeWalt 20-volt Max 2-Tool Combo Kit. Now just$169. And at the Lowe's Pro Desk, bring us your materials list and get a quote in minutes. Handwritten, a photo, or even a sticky note is all you need. Keep your jobs moving faster and on budget at Lowe's. Valid through 7-8 while supplies last. Selection varies by location.
2:59It's an overcast day in March 2018. The winter snow is finally giving way as the weather warms. Kevin and Gene Zimmerman sit in their living room with lights, a camera, and a local reporter staring back at them. Does time sort of stop for you on that day, on April 2nd? Absolutely. In 2008? Do you feel like you can, you know, that it is 10 years later? No. No. No. It's quite unbelievable. That it's 10 years already. It's completely unbelievable. They've done countless interviews over the years and are willing to do thousands more, anything to keep their daughter's case alive. How often do you think about that day?
3:49Every day. every single day. We thought it was going to be solved right away. We didn't even consider that we'd be here ten years later. Three days after this interview would mark ten years since their daughter Brittany was killed. In that decade, the case had passed through three police chiefs and four lead detectives. Years of work with little to show for it. Only once did they think they were close. Why do you think there hasn't been an arrest or even seemingly like a person of interest or a major break in the case? We thought there was. You know, it was two and a half years ago, Chief Koval came to our door on my husband's birthday and said, we believe we have the person responsible for killing your daughter, December 9th.
4:46That moment came in 2016, but two years later, there was still no arrest. All the Zimmermans could do was hold on to hope. That's all we have is hope. We can hope. Yeah. But realistically, I'm not real sure that they're ever going to solve this, at least not the way it's being handled right now. I just don't believe it. When parents lose a child, they're powerless to do anything but wait. Justice moves on its own timeline. And in the Zimmerman's case, that timeline stretched endlessly. These interviews, these small acts of advocacy, were all they had control over. If speaking publicly could help or speed up catching Brittany's killer, they'd do it every day for the rest of their lives to make that happen.
5:39What would you really tell people about why they should rack their brains? Because if it was your child, you'd want everybody in the world to rack their brains for you. Put yourself in our shoes, just for a second. Just for a second, put yourself in our shoes. And knowing what this little girl meant everything to us. And, you know, she was never there to hurt anybody. She was always there to help people. Photos of Brittany still lined every wall of their home A family scarred by tragedy, frozen in time, clinging to whatever hope remained And wondering whether the case would ever be solved Meanwhile, the police department continued to work on their decade-old investigation This is not what I would consider been relegated to a cold case This still has active leads that are worthy The Zimmermans knew little about the leads detectives were chasing.
6:39They only knew that two years earlier, the police chief had told them they had the guy. But there had been no arrests. They were completely in the dark. If I had the probable cause based on the totality of the evidence I had, don't you think I would have made an arrest? It turned out that the chief had spoken too soon. It was one of many missteps in an investigation that had been plagued by setbacks from the start. One of the biggest was losing the longtime lead investigator. The emotional toll of the case eventually became too heavy to bear. He was convulsing at one point. And then I was convulsing.
7:29And I realized we can't continue to sign cases this way. The chief swore that, moving forward, a team of investigators would carry the case. He was confident they would solve it, eventually. The old school cop in me still hopes now that loops, slips, will sink ships. Someone's going to say something to somebody about this case in a bar or overheard. But even if they did, even if the killer was finally behind bars, the Zimmermans knew it would bring them little comfort. What they wanted most was the one thing that no investigation could return. She would be a doctor right now that she wanted to be, and we would be proud of her, and we could go visit her on her animal farm and everything she wanted because she loved animals.
8:26That's what we wish, you know, that she could live her life the way she wanted to. They had thought the case would be solved quickly. By 2018, they simply hoped it would be solved at all. Their nightmares started on April 2nd, 2008, when their daughter was attacked inside her apartment in the middle of the day. The mistake started almost immediately. And to understand how this case remained open for a decade, you have to go back to the start. Monday will mark 10 years since a brutal murder that rocked downtown Madison. It's been five years since Brittany Zimmerman was killed here on Dodie Street.
9:04Friday will mark the two-year anniversary of the Madison murder of Brittany Zimmerman. It's April 2nd, 2008. Jordan Gonnering hops on his moped and heads towards the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus. His fiancée, Brittany, is already in class. She had a big test that morning. He rides a short distance to campus from their apartment enjoying the sun. It wouldn't feel so cold if it weren't for the wind, he thinks to himself. He gets back to campus at around 1130. He goes out on one of the balconies of the Van Heys building and scans the quad for Brittany. She turns her phone off in class, but he knows she'll be coming out of the bacteriology building.
9:52Then he spots her. She stands out with her golden hair and the collar of her lime green pea coat pulled up around her neck. He calls her name. She looks around for a moment before looking up to the balcony. A smile spreads across her face when she sees Jordan. He points to his phone and she remembers her phone is off. She turns it on and it rings instantly. Jordan asks her how her parasitology test went. She sighs, but says it went fine. They have a quick conversation, just touching base before their dinner plans that night. They finish their phone call, and Jordan starts heading to his Russian literature class, which starts at 12.05.
10:37After class ends at 12.55, Jordan walks back to his moped and hops on. He weaves through the campus and onto his street. He gets home, parks his bike on the side of the house, and walks to the front door like he always does. Then he stops. The lock on the outside security door is busted. It looks like somebody kicked it in. He can't remember if it was always like this. He stares at it for a moment, thinking, but dismisses it and starts to go inside. He reaches to open the closed door and notices it's unlocked. He thinks, that's weird. But he also knows their landlord was supposed to show the apartment that day, so he assumes that's why.
11:29He walks inside and takes off his backpack, his jacket, and his shoes. Usually their three cats would greet him at the door, but today, they were nowhere to be found. Jordan takes a few steps towards the back of the small apartment and freezes. On the floor in the bedroom is Brittany. Just for a second, he thinks she's pranking him. But as soon as he inches close, he sees blood. Jordan would call 911 at 1.08 p.m. 911, what's the address of the emergency? 911, what's the address of the emergency? Hello? This is 911. What's the address of the emergency? His phone barely holds a connection. He manages to give the address on West Doty Street before the call cuts out.
12:21It's flat. It's what? You're cutting out. Can you hear me? Hello? Hello. Okay, your phone's cutting out. Did you say upper or lower flat? Yes. The dispatcher tries again. Their voices break in and out, tangled and static. Okay. Ambulance is needed. Okay, what is your name? Jordan Goring. Okay, tell me exactly what happened. I just came home, the door was busted in, and my girlfriend's been shot.
12:56Okay. Stay on the phone with me, okay? Yep. Are you with her right now? Yes, I am. How old is she? She is 19, no, she's 21. 21? Is she conscious? No, she's not. Is she breathing? No, she's not. Up to this point in his life, the most serious thing Jordan has faced was final exams. Now he's kneeling beside the woman he planned to marry, trying to save her life. The dispatcher checks to make sure the attacker is no longer there, all while relaying information to officers already en route. The caller has no idea. He just walked in and found his girlfriend like this. Caller has no idea who would have done this.
13:42Is there any serious bleeding? Okay. There is serious bleeding. Yes. Okay. I'm sending an ambulance to help you. I want you to stay on the line with me so I can tell you what to do next, okay? Okay. Did you say she is or she is not breathing? She's not breathing. She's not breathing. Okay. Stay on the phone with me so I can tell you how to help her, okay? You're right by her now? Yes. All right, I want you to lay her flat on her back on the ground. Yep. Remove any pillows. Okay. Okay. I need you to kneel next to her and look in her mouth for any food or vomit. Is there anything in her? Just blood, just blood.
14:21Just blood? Brittany isn't breathing. Her airway is filled with blood, and she has no pulse. The dispatcher talks Jordan through CPR, but she knows it might already be too late. And when Jordan rolls Brittany onto her back, he notices something he cannot make sense of. Did you think she did this herself? No, she couldn't have. She couldn't have done it herself, and there's no weapon nearby? No, no, it's a gunshot wound. You're inside with her? You're inside with her? Yes, I am. It might be a stam wound? Yes, I'm not sure. They're piercing. They're small piercings. The dispatcher stays with him, guiding him, reassuring him, while also coordinating the incoming police units.
15:12She switches between comforting Jordan and delivering updates to officers racing towards the scene. The address is 517 West Doty. 517 West Doty Street. It's apartment number one, the lower flat. the female is P &B and he's now saying that it could be a stabbing wound rather than a gunshot. Then she has to jump right back into the fray with Jordan. Okay, no idea who might have done this at all, right? I have no idea. I have no idea. Absolutely no idea. Okay, can you feel or hear any breathing at all? No, I can't. I've checked for a pulse and I can't feel anything.
15:52Okay. Okay, just so you know, there's an ambulance on the way and the officers are on the way as well, okay? She tells him help is coming. But in moments like this, seconds stretch into hours. Finally, officers arrive and usher Jordan inside. 13, 14 and I are inside the building. It's clear and she is 10-7. Police reach the apartment at 1.10 p.m., less than two minutes after dispatch. They check on Jordan, then clear the house, room by room, upstairs and downstairs, making sure the attacker isn't still inside. Only then do they move toward Brittany. It was too late to help her. The officers informed dispatch that the victim was deceased and the call became a homicide investigation.
16:47When detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused. There was forced entry, but nothing was stolen. Brittany most likely was working on her computer, filing out federal grant forms, when someone interrupted her. Her desk was messy with tax documents. From the doorway of their bedroom, detectives saw blood on the bed and the floor. Further checking revealed her cell phone. The battery was missing, and it looked like someone had deliberately damaged it. They found it hidden under other garbage in the trash can. Who would want a 21-year-old microbiology student dead? And why? It was a broad daylight murder with no clear motive.
17:34And it would take 12 years for Madison police to uncover the truth.
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18:39The midday murder of their only daughter had a devastating effect on the Zimmermans. They wouldn't see her graduate or get married. She would never have a career, a family, or a life. The date of her death would replace her birthday for her parents, and they would spend the next 12 years fighting for justice for Brittany. Her fiancé, Jordan, found her lifeless body on their bedroom floor and called 911. The police made a mad dash to the crime scene. When it was determined that Brittany was deceased, the investigation started. The entire street from intersection to intersection was cordoned off.
19:23Officers secured the scene. They started to make contact with the neighbors and left dashcams running to capture anyone walking in the area. Jordan had just seen her at 11.30. What could have happened in the last hour and a half? They hoped whoever killed her was still in the area, so they started canvassing. Quickly, dispatch uncovered some investigation that might have been related. Police and fire. Hi. I was just calling to report a suspicious incident that just happened at my house because I thought I should tell someone just in case something happened. What was the incident? Some guy walked into my house and just opened our door and came in and was asking me for money, and he came up our stairs.
20:16Okay, and how long ago was this? About maybe 10 minutes tops. The caller lived on West Washington Avenue, two blocks away, and a straight shot down an alley from Brittany's apartment at Doty Street. Okay, and you don't know who this person was? No, I have no idea. He said that him and his wife had a flat tire on East Washington Ave and that he needed$40 to buy a tire. Okay, did he walk into your apartment? Yes, he walked into our house and came up the stairs. Okay. The possibility that this man with a flat tire could be involved couldn't be overlooked. With no idea who killed Brittany, anyone was a possible suspect.
20:57especially a middle-aged man going from door to door asking for money.
21:27That call would give a new theory on who killed Brittany. While she was an extraordinary person, her life was otherwise rather unremarkable, aside from her academic achievements. She didn't have enemies wanting revenge or jealous friends. She didn't owe anyone money and didn't have any to steal. She hadn't wronged anyone in any serious way. But considering the other 911 calls in the area, the idea that the murder was committed by a stranger at random became very likely. Then, there was another 911 call. 911, what's the address of emergency? I'm sorry, this isn't an emergency. I don't know if you can transfer me to a non-emergency line or if I should tell you.
22:16This is fine. What's the problem?
22:33This caller was a college student like Brittany and Jordan. He was waiting for the bus to take him to school when he noticed some suspicious activity. How many people were there? Just two older men. And I figured they were just taking a break or something, but I was worried they were looking in the mailbox or something like that, too. To be clear, this call was about two other men, not the man with the flat tire begging for money. These two men were sharing a drink from a paper bag while looking through windows and rifling through mailboxes. It was certainly suspicious, and with the early theory that a stranger murdered Brittany, it was even more so.
23:15But to understand the obstacles in the investigation into Brittany's death, you have to know about the neighborhood she lived in. She lived on West Doty Street just off South Bassett Street, in the Bassett neighborhood. Is it Bassett or Bassett? I guess it's the same difference between Boudet and Boudet. Who gives a shit? This area was sometimes called the Student Triangle because of the proximity to the university campus only six blocks away. The neighborhood was a mix of students and apartments, families and small houses, and a few long-term low-income tenants. Oh, and transient foot traffic.
23:59The downtown area had homeless shelters, drop-in shelters, and a bus depot. With a mix of college students and transients, the area had a high call volume, so the police were there often. At the same time, there were roughly 1 ,400 service calls a year, and one-third of those were for panhandling and other loitering complaints. So, when all the evidence at the scene of the crime pointed to a random person murdering Brittany, the police knew they had a difficult investigation on their hands. But the man with the flats higher, entering people's homes uninvited, was their first possible lead. What were the time frames of when she called and when we had done this call to 517?
24:48It was about a five-minute last between the calls, so it's actually about 15 altogether. Yeah, that description for second detailers, I want you to check in the area. I want a couple of you to go down to State Street and check around that area. and then just in a three, four, five block area, circle the area looking for that party. Once you're done doing that, then I need folks to respond down to Bassett and Doty Street. In police work, coincidences are rare. So the idea of a man walking into someone's home within 15 minutes of a home invasion and murder set off alarm bells. The police would quickly locate the man with the flat tire.
25:31He was known to the department as an active panhandler. David Call would walk around the neighborhood asking people for money at random, with some made-up story to elicit sympathy. Turns out, this homeless guy had exhausted his entire friends and family list for help. They had all had enough of him and said no thanks. And now society was left to deal with him. By the time they had an official interview, he was already in jail on a probation violation. Fifth OWI, failure to register because I was homeless at the time. Okay. I had an address and borrowed money on false pretenses. Okay. And that was it to have to do with the houses downtown, that kind of thing?
26:23No, that was borrowing money from businesses and stuff. Okay. I'm asking the same thing, paying him. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Call had a lengthy criminal record stretching over 16 years at this point. He had a couple of counts of manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance in 92. In 93, he was charged with theft and second-degree sexual assault. In 2002, he was charged with possession of THC. In 2006, he was charged with failure to register as a sex offender. Are you exhausted yet? Because it's getting old. Anyway, a few days after that, he was charged with his fifth OWI, or operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated.
27:13That kills people, you know. But after learning about his history and talking to his parole officer, they didn't see him as a suspect. They saw him as a source for some reason. Detective Woods and I are investigating a number of different things, okay? And we're not here to jam you up any further than what you already are, okay? That's not our purpose in life and with this interview, okay? I already know, you know, I know about all the downtown stuff, you know, going to the houses and that kind of thing. As well, like I said, I talked to your P.O. this morning. He says you've always been decent with him and that he didn't expect that we would have any difficulties talking to you today.
27:57And I don't have any reason to believe that you're involved in anything right now. I think that maybe you might be a witness to some things that you can help us out with. David Call shifted in his seat with a blank expression. He was 42. But his white stubble beard and quickly graying hair made him look older than he was. His receding hairline didn't help matters either. He was of average height, but a little on the thin side. He grew up on his parents' dairy farm and considered himself a farmer. But he never graduated high school, and since 1992, when he was 26, he'd been in trouble with the law and spent several stints in prison.
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28:39It didn't sound like he was much of a farmer, but he was a perfect informant. What I'd like to do, if it's okay with you, could I show you some photographs and you tell me if you know these people and how you know them? Okay. Okay. We're talking about people that we're doing, you know, we're out on the street like you were, you know, maybe with some scams, maybe going into houses and things like that over the course of time. He looked at each picture the officers showed him. They were all people who frequented the area around Brittany's home. Some he recognized, but didn't know, or couldn't place.
29:18Most he didn't know at all. Next photograph is county number 900-69896. Again, 900-69896. That's Don. I know her. Yeah? Where did you know Don from? I was walking around with her the other day. Okay. When the police contacted you? Before. Before the police contacted you? Probably from like 11 until about 3 o 'clock I was with her. Finally, he recognized some. He said that the day Brittany was murdered, he was with a woman named Dawn. Together they teamed up and started going door to door, asking for money. The police had already talked to Dawn, but she couldn't or wouldn't cooperate. which was fine because police were more interested in the other two men they crossed paths with that day.
30:18Can you describe to me the couple of guys that were with her? Those were supposedly Mitchell or Michael and then Hank. So Mitchell or Michael and Hank? Yeah, those are the guys that gave the description of them. Okay. And just one more time for us, can you describe Mitchell or Michael for us? Mitchell has long blonde hair ponytail, it's tied back, he's got a scar on the right cheek. And a Kurt Douglas dimple right here. Okay, and so then can you describe Hank to us? Hank is black. Okay.
30:57Short, real short curly hair, it's even got like, it's not even like an afro of me, it's, you know, it's short and curly but it's like spaces in between it. Okay, so do you think it's thinning or where do you think? Thinning. Thinning, okay. The reason they were so interested in these two men was that while Kahl's MO was to ask for money for a flat tire, they had other methods. Those guys look like they're open windows climbing too and stuff like that. Like in an alley, they're walking between two houses and their windows open and they're climbing. That's their kind of scam. Okay, so just looking for open windows?
31:35I was opening them those knocking on doors, and I don't know what their house was. Mine was, like I say, for a flat tire. But I remember earlier that day, me and Dawn walked down, and there was Doty in the street over. There was, like, two different girls down there. And I remember her telling them guys, because I got my$40 out of the girl, but the girl had a lot of money. And I remember she telling them guys in such and such dress down there, they got more money. I don't know what I'm going to do. Call said the other two men were in the habit of burgling people. They would knock on the door and, if no one answered, look for open windows.
32:12Once inside, they would steal everything worth money. Laptops, cameras, cash, anything. The police started to wonder if these two men entered Brittany's home without realizing she was inside. And then, the worst happened. Don told them to the guys, let's go back and rob them. I ain't into rob nobody. I was in a scam. I mean, they wanted to go back and rob somebody. I was like, I ain't into that shit. Don's like, man, she is like two, three hundred dollars more, you know. I mean, let's try to do this. But I know when I left, the dumb guys were going to go back down and see if they could get some money.
32:52That's when I knew I better hit it because they were being stupid to go back in the same way. Absolutely. He was incredibly forthcoming, sharing everything he did and everywhere he went that day. He even openly admitted to any petty crimes he committed. Am I being charged to this? No, not the things that we're talking about here today. What I'm trying to do is place you in particular locations at particular times. I'm trying to help your memory so that we can try to find out who was in certain areas in that downtown area at different times. OK, no, I'm not. Like I said, I didn't come here today to, you know, to hang me up with that.
33:31And certainly you've never done anything in a violent way to these people. There's no evidence of that whatsoever. And that's what that's sort of why we're here talking to you today, because we know that violence is not your violence. Is it your way to to go ahead and get money? You were you were being successful enough on your own. Call had an easygoing demeanor with detectives. He was extremely polite, and even all the people he panhandled from described him as such. He reviewed all the pictures the police provided and helped create a timeline of his movements that day to determine where other transients were and when.
34:10You know, you've been honest with us here today. I mean, you're certainly not a suspect in any of those cases. Well, we'll try to drum up Mitchell and Hank. And if you hear anything in here, when you get back into population, about other people that might know them or whatever, and you could give us a tip on that. The interview ended with Call providing a buckle swap for DNA testing. The detectives left with a new direction. Finding Mitchell or Mark, the man with the ponytail and the Kurt Douglas dimple. And Hank, the black guy with thinning hair. They would search for months with no luck. If these guys were responsible, they were lying low.
34:57April faded and May turned into June, before detectives realized it was July. In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii to help fund a reward. During that time, a crime lab was processing DNA from the scene. Now, this is 2008, when DNA testing wasn't as advanced as it is today. The samples taken from Brittany's crime scene were mixed, meaning they included two or more DNA profiles. Even so, they quickly found a match. The bad news was that it matched a DNA profile from an unsolved burglary at the Blue Moon Bar and Grill back in June.
35:44A link to another unsolved crime didn't help, and it only made the theory of a transient stranger committing the murder even stronger. So, they went back to talk to Call again. Nothing has changed with you, Dave. I can't be any more explicit with you, okay? We are not considering any other charges against you, no matter what you tell me. Tell me and Sam today in this interview regarding the peripheral stuff about what you were doing. We don't care about that. Our focus is who killed Brittany. I thought you caught the guy. No, that was on the Marino one, the guy that was on West Shore that got killed like in January.
36:24We did catch him. Somebody was saying something on the news or something. Yeah. They already caught the guy or something. Probably that guy. This is the girl. I thought they had DNA too or something. On a knife or something. That was from the Marino case. The guy that got killed back in January a couple months before the one we're working on. Okay, because they said they also found DNA or whatever and supposedly arrested somebody on the... Yeah, they're mixed in the cases. Call seemed even more eager to talk with detectives than last time. He casually talked about the case, even cracking jokes.
36:56He'd been in jail for a few months by now. He had plenty of time to think about that day, to remember. Do you know what the victim's name is? Do you remember without me telling you? Brittany. Okay, do you remember seeing the house that Brittany lived in? Yeah, on TV. At some point earlier that day or any other time, did you knock at that door? I have no idea. Okay. No recollection because I was bouncing from street to street, house to house. Do you remember how many houses on her street that day, Dave, you might have made contact with? Probably almost all of them. Out of all of them, do you have any recollection of how many you might have had people home that came to the door when you knocked or rang?
37:35There wasn't a whole lot of people home. The conversation turned to Hank and the other guy. Detectives brought in a new set of photos to see if Call recognized any of them. He didn't. Then the conversation turned to Don. Is she any help at all? I mean, she's dizzy, I know that. What could we use against her to get her to be more cooperative? If she wasn't being cooperative. I don't know. Anything that... You have to have something, charges or something on it. Yeah. There's no chance that Hank and Mitchell are in that book. No. Absolutely not. No, I don't know their faces yet. Okay. Yeah. So you're sure?
38:17Yeah, I'd tell you, because I'd rather have you talk to them. Mm-hmm. I'd keep gathering you. I know. But they did do something like that. Like I say, they did mention about robbing a few people at Night Point. Strangely engaged, Call was asking more questions than the detectives. Was she raped at all? I can't tell you that. Why? What does that tell you? I just was wondering. Any instincts on that? I just was wondering if she was raped or not. Just something we can't give out. You understand we keep a lot of, we try to keep a lot of information. Because I figured that's another reason why they picked me up too because I had a sexual assault.
38:59Do you guys have anything at all? I mean... Yeah, we've got a bunch of stuff we're working. and everyday new stuff comes in but still. Do you think it was Hank and Lawrence? Until we can find him and talk to him we can't eliminate him so that's what we need to find out who they are. Has any of the homeless people on the sketches identified him and said that they've seen him? Because I mean if I committed a murder I'd sure have to get out of Madison. Madison is small. I mean I wouldn't want to stick around in Madison. Yeah. I mean, I'd take off. I mean, if I would have killed her, I would have been gone.
39:38You guys would have never found me this day. I would have never even went back to my apartment. I mean, that seems logical, right? Yeah. While the police continued their search for the two mystery men, the public wanted answers. They needed to know that they were safe in their own homes. That's when the public backlash started. The news media started requesting public records, but when the requests were fulfilled, some records were withheld, others delayed, and most were redacted. The news media smelled something fishy and pushed back, requesting more and more records. They requested 911 call logs, dispatch records, audio recordings, dispatcher notes, and even internal reviews or audits related to the 911 call center.
40:24When that too failed, they filed suit. There were substantial revelations that brought into the public domain as a result of this lawsuit. The public was in fear and suddenly realized the police were withholding things from them. What revelations were made public, you might be asking? Well, settling the lawsuit forced the city to release another 911 call. including the fact that the tape did contain sounds of a struggle and screaming. The 911 call had been marked as incomplete or misdialed. In other words, the operator didn't hear anyone on the line, but the call in question came from Brittany's home.
41:13911, what's the address of the emergency? Hello, 911? The police were aware of this very early on, but didn't inform the public. They said the state of the phone systems at the E-911 center made it so that the operator did not hear the scream. It was only after they pulled the recording that they noticed.
41:58In the recording, it was clearly a woman screaming. Then they heard what sounded like someone saying stop, along with the sounds of what could only be an assault. Then the line disconnected. Per protocol, the operator called the number back.
42:21Hello? Hi, Dink. How many 911 calling? Your phone called us? 911. Were you just using the phone? Yeah. Okay. It's 911. Oh, we may have pressed that red button on there. Oh, that was an accident. Yeah, that was an accident. Yeah. Okay. All right. We just have to check then. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. But this forced transparency caused outrage. Not only were two men on the recording, but Brittany called 911 nearly an hour before her fiancé Jordan found her. This revelation would lead to the Zimmermans filing a wrongful death lawsuit against the city in 2009. They would settle the suit the following year and put all the money towards a scholarship fund in Brittany's name.
43:16They said it wasn't about the money. It was about not letting this happen to anyone else. The E-911 Center would undergo many equipment upgrades and dispatcher training. A lot of covering your ass after the damage is done. But while the police were dodging the public outrage, they received an anonymous letter in late 2009. The letter was from the Fox Lake Correctional Facility. It claimed an inmate with the initials of FR and his friends killed Brittany. The detectives investigated this anonymous tip, but nothing came out of it. Around this time, the case also lost its first lead detective, who transferred out of the department.
44:03With his departure, the next detective would have to start all over again. The new detective revisited all the evidence, including the DNA. They resubmitted the samples and they reprocessed them. By 2011, the mixed samples were degraded, but the technology had improved. When they got the results back, they knew they needed to speak with David Call yet again. You were going door to door in Brittany's neighborhood that day, right? Yes. Okay. Me and Don and them other guys. Other guys, meaning these two guys we're talking about? Okay. There's some evidence. I mentioned to you some evidence that came up.
44:47As you can imagine, the homicide, we had the crime line, the process, everything. DNA was developed on some things that Brittany had on at the time she was killed. And that's the main reason, Detective Luke, and I wanted to sit on and talk to you today, that DNA is consistent with your DNA. And that was just developed recently. Can you explain why your DNA would be on, in our house even? No idea unless it was one of the houses that we were breaking into that day. How many houses did you break into? Well, me and them guys, like I said, we'd go in there and we'd break in. You know, go through stuff, looking for jewelry, laptops.
45:39Okay. While Carl's story had been consistent for years, this time he revealed more. He had been with two other men, helping him burgle homes for items to sell. He offered this up as a possible explanation to how his DNA could have even ended up at Brittany's house. The DNA that we have could not have gotten there by you being in simply her apartment. It would have been, it's there because you touched her, she touched you, okay? Okay. That's what I'm saying to you. Well, am I being charged with anything yet? No. No, absolutely not. Why? I mean, I don't know what to say to you. I mean, you know, I've cooperated all the way with you guys.
46:25You have, and we appreciate that, and that's why we asked you to come back. Now you're saying you got B &A from me. I mean. And we're trying to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. So I best talk to a lawyer. I mean, when you're approaching me, you said the only way to get there is if I touched her or something. So that's pretty fucked up right there. I mean, whether I shook her hand that day. Like I say, I remember her now because of the pictures and the faces, you know what I mean? And being on the news. But at that day when everything happened, I didn't remember if that was one of the people that I hugged or...
47:05He said maybe he did ask Brittany for money that day, but he didn't recall it. If he did, maybe he shook her hand or gave her a hug. But after that, he thought it wise to consult a lawyer. The reason he wasn't being charged then and there is that police were hoping for a confession. The reprocessing of DNA didn't provide a match. Call wasn't a perfect match, but he couldn't be excluded either. Remember, DNA samples were mixed and degraded. This is the best the lab could do. The district attorney's office wouldn't prosecute with so little evidence. Without a confession and Call lawyering up, the case started to stall.
47:53The next year, in 2012, another detective took over the case. It continued to drift. In 2014, the department got a new chief. With the regime change, the department underwent restructuring. 2015 provided no new leads either. Then, in 2016, a tip came in. A man named Skolls said that Call confessed to him while in prison together. This would have cinched the conviction, except that Scholes was leveraging this information to obtain a pardon. Jailhouse snitches with a motive are rarely credible. This claim wasn't immediately considered a reliable lead. It got stuck in internal administrative channels before ever going to detectives.
48:43That same year, the new detective met with Call. The interview lasted only two and a half minutes before he politely shut it down.
49:18A few times is an understatement. Call had spent the eight years since the death of Brittany in and out of jail for various charges. He knew the routine. And with the lingering fear of DNA and now the claim by Skolls, Call wasn't willing to cooperate. Having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us now? I'd rather not. My attorney advised me not to. Okay. He was up there a week or two ago and said don't talk anymore. Okay. So there you go. I've been cooperating like I say since the get-go. This is about that Brittany's a run-a-murder. And then he asked me questions about Andrew Scholes.
50:04And I sent a letter, I think it was to Detective Miller, with Andrew Scholes calling me a rat and telling him under the bus This is why he's gonna try to make a deal with you guys or something, supposedly. So I just, whatever, I have a name sound. He said you just try to pin it on somebody and anybody that you can get you can pin it on. So I'm done operating. Well, we are only interested in the truth. I'll say that, not to you but in general. Yes. And that is your right. Okay. Thank you very much. Yep, thank you. Another attempt at getting a confession from a man who consistently claimed he wasn't involved.
50:54The always polite call chose to remain silent. 2016 would end. And 2017 would start. With the new year came yet another new detective. A full review of the case started yet again. But before the claims of Andrew Scholes could be vetted or verified, he died in a motorcycle accident. By the time anyone considered the tip a viable lead, he was already gone. This brought investigators to the 10th anniversary of Brittany's death in 2018. Her family was still waiting for answers. after ten years. The community had largely moved on. The case had survived longer than the people assigned to it. What no one realized yet was that the piece of evidence that would finally break the case had been sitting in a storage locker for nearly a decade.
52:28For years, police had DNA, but not the kind that gives answers. The samples from Brittany's apartment were mixed. Her DNA was everywhere. Whatever the attacker left behind was tangled up with it. The testing could only rule people out, but it couldn't point to exactly one person. David Call could not be excluded. He could not be charged, either. As the years passed and technology improved, detectives kept trying. The results stayed the same. Too much doubt. Not enough proof. Hell of a system. Until one day in 2020, something finally changed. But before moving forward, police returned to the one man they had never been able to rule out.
53:22David Call. How much do you know about Brittany? Nothing. Just that she was murdered. She was a college kid. She loved animals. I think she wanted to go to med school. It was her major. She was a little one of the guys she was engaged to. And I'm not trying to pull at your heartstrings here. It's just I'm explaining to you why this is a serious case that the Madison Police Department in our office has kept looking at for so many years. Your story, you know, over time is different. Okay. And I think, I don't know how much you remember of different times you've said things, and it's changed a little bit.
54:00And today's a little different. times I was drunk. Right. Can I get that? Yeah. And your DNA does, based on how today's science looks, is telling us that it's very likely that it's your DNA on Brittany's sleeves as well as especially her jeans, okay? It had been 12 years since Brittany's murder, and Call had aged quite a bit. He was now 53 years old and looked every bit of it. He had gained weight, and what little hair he had left was even more gray. But he had been confronted with DNA evidence before, so he remained calm as he heard the detective out. Do you know more about what happened to her?
54:47And what you're worried about is that you're the person all the evidence points at, but you still aren't the most culpable person in terms of what actually happened to her. We're just trying to figure out if there are other people involved. Is there anything else you can think of that you can tell us or something that you haven't wanted to talk about that you feel is important that we know about what happened? Not just for Brittany's sake, but for your own sake in terms of I was there, something happened, but I'm not the person who strangled her and stabbed her. She basically died a a really miserable death.
55:25Detective Nail reminded Call that he had previously admitted he was involved in burglaries that day. Call said he didn't remember that at all. Twelve years is a long time to remember every detail of a story he gave, especially when it's just a story and not something that actually happened. If you guys had entered this place and maybe she came home and found to or you guys surprised her? Again, I need to, I mean, that's what I need to know. Yeah, I wasn't in there. I borrowed money from her. I used her bathroom. I believe I had a glass of water and then I left. You do remember being in Brittany's place then?
56:12Yep. Okay. Yep. Suddenly, for the first time, he remembered being in Brittany's apartment. He even remembered specific details about using the bathroom and drinking a glass of water. Where was all this recollection all these years ago? Even getting a glass of water and using the bathroom, I'm not sure how that gets your DNA on her pants. Even with flaws in his claims pointed out, Call stuck to it. He wasn't involved in Brittany's death. but the evidence said otherwise. After all these years, the detectives just wanted to put the Zimmerman's mind at ease. David, I gotta say, I'm sorry, but you love your mom, but Brittany has a mom out there who loves her so much, and she deserves to know even just a little bit of what you can tell us.
57:10Detective told him they believed they had enough evidence to implicate him, but they wanted to know whether anyone else was involved. Call, though, never cracked. He stuck to his newest version of events. He never confessed to anything. On April 2nd, 2008, almost 12 years ago, Brittany Zimmerman was killed in her downtown Madison apartment. Today I can announce that criminal charges have been filed in her death. David Call, a 53-year-old male, has been charged in Dane County Circuit Court with first-degree intentional homicide as a party to a crime and with a dangerous weapon. In the years that have passed, her case never went cold and was never anything but a priority for MP.
57:59Investigators worked tirelessly over the years, following leads, conducting hundreds of interviews, processing countless pieces of evidence, and producing thousands of pages of police reports. Brittany's parents, Kevin and Jean, have remained heavily invested in the case over the years. They've met regularly with MPD investigators and MPD leadership. They're asking for privacy during this difficult time. Call is currently incarcerated in the Wisconsin prison system on unrelated charges. At some point, he'll be transported to Dane County for proceedings in connection with this case. This was truly a senseless crime, taking the life of a young woman with a bright future.
58:47Nothing we do can change that. But my hope is that what happens today will be a significant step in the process to do justice for Brittany and for her family. Thank you. Finally, David Call was charged with first-degree murder, intentional homicide. When Detective Nail took over Brittany Zimmerman's case in 2017, he didn't start with suspects. He started with boxes, evidence bags, old reports, things that hadn't been touched in years. He didn't just review it, he re-evaluated it. That's when he saw it. The anonymous letter from 2009 implicating an inmate by the initials FR. The contents of the letter had been deemed unreliable and it was filed away in a box.
59:42But Detective Nail was thorough and sent the letter and its envelope for DNA testing. The test results proved that the letter had been penned, licked, and sealed by David Call. The DNA on Brittany and in her apartment wasn't a perfect match, but the DNA on the envelope was, without a doubt, a match. The Zimmermans were beside themselves with relief and the odd sense that the emotions they had been dealing with for over a decade would soon be gone. I, along with my parents, have become emotionally kind of scarred and numb. My family have been waiting 12 years, eight months, and one day for this to be said, for us to be able to see this individual.
1:00:37During Call's arraignment, he stood silent and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf. But two years later in 2022, he would agree to a plea deal and plead guilty. To count one first degree intentional homicide, what is your plea? Guilty, Your Honor. Are you pleading guilty because you did intentionally cause the death of Brittany Zimmerman. Yes, Your Honor. Call admitted he killed Brittany. He saw her getting home from school and followed her, breaking into her apartment. He likely gave the usual spiel about needing money for a flat tire. You know the excuses you hear just outside Panera Bread.
1:01:26from the homeless man who you're going to assign a Disney-like storyline to, whereas he's closer to a virus, a plague on society. Something that rots it from within. But you do you, and you can be as generous as you like with your spare change. His family wasn't, his friends aren't, if he has any, but you can go ahead and think the best and hand over a couple quarters. Go right ahead. Enjoy. Brittany didn't fall for it, though. She refused to give him any money and started to call 911. That's when he snapped and attacked her. She fought back. Furniture was knocked around in the struggle. So he wrapped his sweatshirt around her neck and pulled it tight.
1:02:19He got up on top of her and stabbed her 19 times in the chest. Then he fled and spent the next 14 years pretending it never happened. Homeless people don't get homeless by accident, you know. It's rarely ever the sob story you hear on publicly supported airwaves. Anyway, during the sentencing, Brittany's aunt addressed the court. We, as a family, have nothing but pain. We have nothing but daily reminders and we've had nothing but torture for 14 and a half years while he did his soul searching to decide to come clean. I think it takes a lot of audacity for someone in custody to request a transfer from the county jail to the state prison because he thinks he will get better medical care after he has stripped my family of an incredibly loved and amazing human who wanted to do nothing but good things in this world.
1:03:30Then David Call addressed the court and the family with an apology that was anything but sincere. I would like to apologize to everybody, especially the Zimmerman family. I took away Brittany's 21-year-old life, a family that she couldn't have had. I just feel horrible. I was just, I feel horrible. And I'm accepting the punishment that I got coming. The apology fell short of giving the Zimmermans any comfort. David Call just seemed like an old man at the end of a rope. At the time, Call was seriously ill. His years of hard living had finally caught up with him. His plea agreement seemed to be more self-serving than anything else.
1:04:28In prison, he would get better medical care, being the parasite he was. You did finally take responsibility for what you did, and you did plead guilty. And as I say, you did spare her family and friends the agony of going through a public trial. but it does not negate the years of your obfuscation and obstruction regarding the investigation in this case there is such a sense of loss and sadness and pain there and the weight of almost 15 years to get to this moment was excruciating it just was excruciating so many lives have been tragically altered by your actions Mr. Call. I do conclude, Mr. Call, that you must be removed from society for the rest of your life.
1:05:26The magnitude of your crime demands it. Your character demands it and the protection of the public demands it. It is the just and right thing to do. David Call was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of release. After sentencing, the Zimmerman family held a press conference. We knew in between, basically, that he had asked to stay there forever. Our thoughts on that were it was self-serving, as Kim had said. He only did it so that his family and his mother specifically would not have to hear the gruesome details of what he did to our daughter. That is our belief. I guess I can't talk for him.
1:06:14But that is my belief in why he did what he did. I don't think he, you know, had a come to Jesus moment, why he confessed all of a sudden 14 and a half years later, and he had to get it off his chest. I think he was scared to death. He knew, like, you know, it was said the walls were closing in. He had no choice. After years of suffering and wondering if their daughter's killer would ever be brought to justice, the Zimmermans could finally relax. But in Brittany's death, they found their voice. A voice to fight against injustice. What he did was unspeakable. And to not have the person responsible for that behind bars, it was unacceptable to us.
1:07:03So we were willing and we did whatever we had to do. Our family has been our number one supporters. I mean, my sister's been at every single solitary thing with us. She is our speaker. This was every step, the lawsuit to the 911 center, et cetera. It was never about money. It was about doing the right thing for everyone else. So it was to make sure that there wasn't another parent who was going to lose their child to a dropped call. It was always about trying to do the right thing, which was what Brittany's entire life was about, was doing the right thing. And that's in part what is so heartbreaking about the events of her murder is that she did everything right, and that wasn't met by people doing the right thing for her.
1:07:52And so that's been, it's been the irony and the heartbreak of all of it. Justice didn't give the Zimmermans their daughter back. It didn't give them the years they spent waiting or the milestones they'll never get to see. What it did give them was an ending and the knowledge that they never stopped doing the right thing. Over the years, that choice has cost them more than time. Brittany's mother used the money that had been set aside for her wedding to help fund the reward for information about her killer. They gave interviews. They relived the worst day of their lives over and over again and again.
1:08:37They refused to let the case and Brittany's voice go quiet. And because of cases like Brittany's, something did change. change. Wisconsin law was updated to expand the circumstances under which DNA is collected from people in the criminal justice system, a shift meant to prevent evidence from sitting in limbo, as it did in this case. It didn't come soon enough for Brittany, but it may mean answers come sooner for someone else. And isn't that all we can do on this rock, on this spin around the sun? Just make it slightly better for the next person. If you're homeless, you may not give a fuck, but if you care about the future of this thing, we are humanity.
1:09:38Then you might want to do just that.
1:10:08So
1:10:22that's going to do it for another episode of sword and scale. Thank you for joining us. If you have a technical issue, you can reach us at support at swordandscale.com. And if you have a complaint about our content and what I say, you can send that to our complaints department in your local trash bin. Otherwise, you can find everything else you want on our website and app. Go to swordandscale.com for more info. And we'll see you next week. Why don't you go and stay safe? Until then.
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