In short
Michigan murder case involving the 2022 discovery of homeless man LaShawn Keith’s body in a Van Buren County hayfield near Geneva, and the investigation that used DNA and witness statements to identify Zachary Trainor and Brian Wimbley; also the role of Michigan State Police Detective Chris Hayward and an intermediary, “Ochoa,” who helped dispose of the body.
Guest backgrounds
No podcast guests are interviewed in the transcript. The “guests” are the case participants: Detective Chris Hayward (Michigan State Police, 25 years, near retirement) and suspects/witnesses including Mr. Ochoa (DNA match; admitted helping move/dispose), Zachary Trainor (road crew/construction worker; admitted assault involvement), and Brian Wimbley (road crew/construction worker; admitted assault involvement).
Key claims
A sledgehammer assault under an overpass/near train tracks left Keith with a broken femur and broken ribs; the men later dumped his body in the field. DNA on gloves linked Ochoa; Ochoa’s story led to Trainor and Wimbley. Both Trainor and Wimbley pleaded guilty to second-degree homicide/murder; Ochoa received 1.5 years for accessory after the fact.
Notable examples
Keith’s wallet found in a sock; glove DNA initially not matching CODIS until rerun; conflicting accounts of who struck first/final blow; body disposal described as wrapping/transport and later “dissolving” with acids.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to the Case
1:05 to 1:26
Detective Chris Hayward prepares for an interview related to a murder case.
The Discovery of the Body
1:26 to 3:09
Details surrounding the discovery of a body in Van Buren County are revealed.
“But I find me Michigan State Police Detective Chris Hayward walks into a cluttered interrogation room in the Van Buren office.”
Ochoa's Interrogation
3:09 to 7:48
Detective Hayward interrogates Ochoa about his involvement in the case.
“But his years of experience taught him a gentler approach to interrogation.”
Ochoa's Claims and Background
7:48 to 13:23
Ochoa shares his account of the events leading to the murder of LaShawn Keith.
“He said him and a buddy of his, they fucked up bad.”
Connecting the Dots
13:23 to 14:00
Detective Hayward pieces together Ochoa's story and seeks corroboration.
“Now they needed to find Zachary Trainor and identify this co-worker.”
Detective Hayward's Investigation Unfolds
14:00 to 17:06
Learn about Detective Hayward's pursuit of the truth behind LaShawn's death.
“The End After a year and a half of dead ends in the death investigation of LaShawn Keith, a DNA match brought Detective Hayward a man with answers.”
Zach's Confrontation with Detective Hayward
17:06 to 19:48
Discover how Zach reacted when confronted about the allegations against him.
“The initially confrontational Zach softened as soon as he understood why Detective Hayward was there.”
The Night of the Incident: Perspectives of Zach and Brian
19:48 to 28:00
Explore the differing accounts of Zach and Brian regarding the night they confronted LaShawn.
“Is it me or are people getting less and less sensitized to the act of murder?”
Escalating Confrontation
28:00 to 30:50
Witness accounts of a violent confrontation involving a sledgehammer.
“and then next thing you know, Zach kind of like pushed him a little bit and he kind of, you know, your reaction is to push back when you're pushed.”
Descent into Chaos
30:50 to 35:00
Details of the chaotic fight, injuries sustained, and reactions of the participants.
“where they were kind of both tussling a little bit.”
Show all 18 chapters
Aftermath and Realization
35:00 to 41:40
The realizations and consequences faced by the participants after the fight.
“This guy puts his hands over his ears and goes, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.”
The Discovery of a Body
42:00 to 44:10
The shocking moment when Brian and Zach find a man not moving on the tracks.
“The train guy was going to call the cops if LaShawn was still there the next day.”
Dealing with the Aftermath
44:10 to 46:42
Zach struggles with the reality of the situation and seeks help from a pastor.
“Brian immediately started to distance himself from the situation and from Zach.”
Remorse vs. Responsibility
46:42 to 47:54
Exploring the feelings of remorse in Zach and Brian and the weight of their actions.
“Like, I don't want to, I was like, it's unspoken.”
Changing Perceptions of Zach
47:54 to 50:59
Zach's character is examined through the lens of those who knew him and his influence.
“Zach said it changed the way he looked at life.”
Consequences of the Crime
50:59 to 56:03
The legal repercussions faced by Zach and Brian after the crime and their guilty pleas.
“He pulled the knife on my dad when me and my dad were arguing one day.”
The Consequences of Violence
56:03 to 57:21
Explore the tragic story of LaShawn Keith and the sentencing of his murderers.
“That glove eventually led him to three young men with three very different stories, but enough truth between the three of them to hold each one of them accountable.”
Closing Remarks
58:19 to 59:39
Concluding thoughts and a thank you from the hosts.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm too drunk to even really... Rowan, what do I do? Oh my God. This is actually happening right now. Episode 367, episode 267, episode 276. Who gives a shit? Will you quit correcting me? It doesn't really matter. just listen to the goddamn show and enjoy it or don't i don't care stop telling me things i don't want to hear it
0:50i am not having a good week as you can tell but that's not your problem A duck keeps shitting in my pool, if you must know. I can't get rid of it. Anyway, that's not your problem. Let's get to some murder, shall we?
1:26But I find me
1:54Michigan State Police Detective Chris Hayward walks into a cluttered interrogation room in the Van Buren office. It's been 16 months since the body in the field was discovered back in November of 2022. He checks the thermostat setting and then starts preparing for his next interview. It's the one he hopes will finally explain how a dead man ended up in that field. Oh, hey. How you doing? How you doing? What do I say? I have a chair here, sir. Mr.
2:37Ochoa was taken into custody for what he assumes is a traffic violation. But he won't be surprised by what Detective Hayward wants to discuss. He's hoping Ochoa can provide all the answers. Yes, we're hoping to talk to you about another case, one of our many cases we've got going. It's a case that ties you into it with some DNA. Detective Hayward has been doing this for quite a long time. He's served the state of Michigan for 25 years and is close to retirement. This case might very well be his last. But his years of experience taught him a gentler approach to interrogation. I'm trying to answer this for if you don't mind me asking.
3:19Yep, it's tied into a body that was found in the field up by Geneva. That's you. It was November 3, 2022, when he had been called to a field in Van Buren County, just east of South Haven. A man had called in and said that he found a body while scouting for hunting locations. The field wasn't easy to access, not by vehicle, anyway. The only way into the field was a muddy path cutting through the woods. Based on some of the background that we've done on you, I kind of have my thoughts on, we do too, on our thoughts on maybe how this thing went down. But we still got to put it together. So, yeah, your DNA was found right there at the scene.
4:05So, you know which one I'm talking about? No, sir. In this field, next to a large pond, was the body of a man. The first thing Detective Hayward noticed was the man's position. His body lay east to west directly between a set of tire tracks. Everything about the scene suggested that the body was dumped in that field. A theory further supported by the lack of shoes on the body. No one walks into a field in their stockings, especially in November. The man's t-shirt was pulled up under his arms, as if he'd been dragged. His clothes were disheveled and badly worn. It was the kind of wear that looked older than the night he died.
4:55The body was beaten and bruised, but the most noticeable injury was on the leg. His right leg was contorted in an unnatural position. It appeared his femur was broken. Identifying the body wasn't difficult. In one of his socks was his wallet, which contained his license. His name was LaShawn Keith. He was a 33-year-old, 310-pound, 6 '1 man whose only relatives lived in Georgia. The only clues as to where he came from and who put him there were the light-colored sand covering his body and a single glove found nearby. You know, he said somebody that he knew needed something. Not like no weapon or nothing, it was just like gloves and all of this.
5:49And the guy that he was telling me about, he said he do construction, so I'm thinking it's for a job, job. Hayward hadn't mentioned a glove yet, but Ochoa did. It was a small thing, easy to miss, except it suggested that Ochoa already knew exactly which piece of evidence had brought him into that room. Frankly, we know more than what we're letting on here. I want you to be a little more at the front of it, because, like I said, we do have gloves. I'll lay it right out there. Your gloves, your DNA is right there at the scene on those gloves, which you brought up so you already knew about that because then things got dropped and left behind.
6:28So you already understand that that, with no other explanation, that looks bad. At first, the whole scene where they found the body confused Detective Hayward. It seemed like a spot that you would have to know about to find. While forensic techs took impressions of the tire tracks and sent off samples from the gloves, Hayward tried to eliminate his first person of interest, the man who reported the body. His whole story about scouting hunting locations didn't really make sense. It wasn't even hunting season. Hayward interviewed him, as well as the people who lived nearby. He took the caller's vehicles and processed them for evidence.
7:12He spent the first few weeks of the investigation looking into this man, but eventually ruled him out. Now he finally had someone he knew was involved in front of him. Hayward continued his delicate approach. He didn't have to bully Ochoa. He only had to let him talk long enough to tell on everyone else. A friend of mine, he told Zach to contact me. So I was a little confused on it. And I talked to him and he said him and a buddy of his, and I'll be honest, this is his words. He said him and a buddy of his, they fucked up bad. And I'm like, what is he talking about? He said, we fucked up, fucked up.
8:00He told me that him and a guy got into it. he said I think he was a homeless man or something like that and him and his friend that he was with at the time they had he said they beat on him but they hit him with a sludge hammer and broke his bones or legs or something like that don't know if that was true but he said they came back the next day for work because it was over by his job site he went back to see if the dude was okay and he was still there, like still laying there. Initially, the DNA profile from the glove didn't match anything in the combined DNA index system, otherwise known as CODIS.
8:45But every once in a while, they would run it again. It took six months before it returned to match to Ochoa. But by then, no one could find him. He said the man was dead already, and he wanted help moving the body or something like that. Another reason he asked me to help him move that was because he had a cast on his hand. I don't know what happened. He said, yeah, my hand broke, but he never told me how it broke. And then, I'm going to be honest with you, one night he picked me up, and he took me to where everything he said happened, happened that he showed me what we was moving. We had to walk down a dirt hill, like where they do road work.
9:27It was train tracks at the bottom of it. It was a dirt hill. It took another nine months before detectives finally had Ochoa in an interrogation room. And Detective Hayward was right. He had a lot of answers. The more Ochoa talked, the more his story lined up with the evidence Hayward had been staring at for months. LaShawn Keith was a homeless man. His body was covered in soft dirt. His leg was broken. A sledgehammer was a new detail, but it lined up with the injuries discovered in the autopsy. In addition to a broken femur, LaShawn also had several broken ribs. He did have me help him move something.
10:12It was super heavy, but it was wrapped up. I did not know what it was. It was a carpet wrapped inside of that plastic that I was telling you about. The plastic is wide. It almost looked like it was for furniture. After a certain while, I wanted to know what I was moving. Sure. But yeah, as we was going up the hill, his size starts to unravel more than I was able to see him. Then, I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah. I seen something slip out. It looked like fingers. I believe I saw fingers. There's nowhere around it. I know what a hand looked like, but we all got hands. I don't know what color of body changed after so long of being dead, but the dude's skin looked at dark when I seen a finger.
10:55and it didn't look like his skin was that color. I don't think he was supposed to be that color. He was like a purplish white. But that made my body go cold. I'm not used to seeing, you know, dead bodies. And I'm going to be honest. I'll do love. I'll do love. What else can I do? You don't see shit like that every day. When faced with the accusation of murder, Ochoa came clean. He claimed a friend of a friend accidentally killed a homeless man, and he helped move the body. But he was adamant he wasn't involved in the murder. We went, we was just driving down this trail, just driving and driving and driving.
11:41And then he hit a field, and then off to the left, if I'm not mistaken, it was water. It was like a lake or something or a pond. In my belief, if I'm trying to believe everything you're saying, which I am, Like I said, you can do a polygraph test. I believe you. Just hear me out on this one point. Yeah, I believe you helped load a body and go out here, but it seems like you're getting hung up on not getting out of the truck and helping. No, I got out the truck to help him load it onto the truck. Yeah. But he didn't ask me for help to unload nothing off the truck. Did you personally kill this man?
12:17No, sir. Did you beat him at all? No, sir. I don't have anything. like that. He told me they did it with a sledgehammer. Okay. And it was still in his truck. I've seen a sledgehammer in the back of his truck. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. It was hard for me to get that image out of my head. Ochoa wasn't the end of the story. He was the beginning. This friend of a friend was someone he knew from school years ago. His name was Zachary trainer. Have you ever heard of Zach doing anything like this before? Is he that type of guy? He didn't even seem like a bad type of person. I mean, yeah, you've seen little signs of anger issues that he had in school, but it wasn't nothing major to where he seemed like he was going to actually physically do something to somebody.
13:02According to Ochoa, trainer hadn't acted alone. If y 'all could talk to the friend, he's going to say the same thing that I'm telling because he seemed like he was too scared to help that. So who do you think he was out there drunk with? Who was with him? It was one of his co-workers. He was most likely telling the truth, but the story wasn't complete just yet. Now they needed to find Zachary Trainor and identify this co-worker. Ochoa was the first piece of the puzzle. Now they knew how LaShawn got into that field. They just needed to know why he was murdered in the first place.
14:02The End
14:07After a year and a half of dead ends in the death investigation of LaShawn Keith, a DNA match brought Detective Hayward a man with answers. Ochoa only helped Zachary Trainor with body disposal, not murder. Finally, Detective Hayward had the first part of the story, but he couldn't just take Ochoa's word for it. I mean, would you take the word of someone who just admitted to moving a body? He needed a fact check, so he went to talk to Ochoa's baby mama. She essentially corroborated his story, even if a few details were slightly off. The details weren't really big enough to cast too much doubt on him.
14:54Besides, Ochoa led detectives right back to that field from a year and a half earlier. Now, Detective Hayward needed to speak with Zachary Trainor and whoever this co-worker was. It wasn't difficult to find Zach. He lived in the small city of Water Vliet. Really small town, 20 miles south of where the body was found.
15:19Hey, sorry. I was just trying to get somebody to answer the door. Who are you? I'm Chris Hayward. I'm a detective with the state police. You're Zach, right? Yeah. Hey, how you doing? I'm good. All right. Listen, I was hoping to talk to you. There's been a complaint made against you. And... What's going on? Are you able to go down to talk with us at the Waterville Eats Police Department? About what? About this allegation made against you. What allegation? I think this is something you're going to want to talk with me about. I'm going to need to hear what you're talking about. Okay, I'd be happy to tell you then.
15:54Okay. And I think it's in your best interest. This case has progressed. I've spent a lot of time on it. I've got everything. I've got the what. I guess I'm just looking to find out from you what kind of guy you are and what was going on in your head. But this is about the body up in the field in Geneva. I know this is hitting you like a ton of bricks. It would do the same for me. I'll come with you guys. Sorry, I don't want to be involved in this, frankly. I wish I can't wait until I retire. As you can see, I'm getting close. I'm hoping to be able to treat this thing a little bit different because in all the background that I've done on you, I don't see you as that kind of guy that I deal with so often, that we have to deal with so often.
16:33I hope you feel like I'm approaching you. I know what you're talking about. I do. So it's been weighing on you? I know. I know what you're talking about right now. I do. Okay. Yes. Okay. So that's the gist of it is just to gather your shoes on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I have to ride with you guys or drive my car? Yeah. Like I said, I'm trying to go to defense. Okay. Okay. You're okay to drive? Yeah. You sure? Yep. I'll meet you guys there. Okay. I just want you crashing on me because you're stressed or something. Okay. I will be there. Hey, big dog. All right. Thank you. The initially confrontational Zach softened as soon as he understood why Detective Hayward was there.
17:13His 5 '11", 160-pound frame shrunk. He swallowed hard and took a deep breath. I imagine he'd been looking over his shoulder for the last 16 months. expecting it to happen at any moment. He admitted he knew what detectives were talking about and said it had been weighing on him. He agreed to meet them at the station to talk, but he wasn't arrested. Detectives pulled down the street and waited just to see if he would actually come and not try to flee. About 15 minutes later, Zach sat down in an interview room with detectives. He would tell his version of events and identify his co-worker. Afterwards, Detective Hayward accompanied him back to his parents' house to break the news that the district attorney would eventually file charges and that he would be arrested.
18:04It was almost 9 p.m. when he arrived. As darkness fell over the city, Zach broke the news to his mother, grandmother, sister, and brother-in-law. His grandmother didn't take the news well at all. He didn't tell her the specifics, but she knew it wasn't good. Did you talk with her? Did you have a chance to talk with Mom yet? I told all of them. Okay. Well, I don't know what to do. But I know it used to be something bad. What's wrong with this family? No. You guys, like I said, take care of yourselves. Then he pulled Zach's sister aside. Zach said he had confided in her in one drunken night at the casino.
18:52Detective Hayward needed to know how much he confessed and if it matched. He and another guy wound up killing somebody. Did you hear about that in the casino parking lot or whatever he's alluding to? Alluded to, yes, I've heard. I guess what story did he tell you? I just know his friend that he was hanging out with at the time was a really bad person. Do you know who he is? Brian. Okay. He used to work there in that area. Him and Brian would, you know, get into a lot of bar fights and stuff. They would get into shit. Okay. He says that he did something he had regretted with Brian, that Brian was like the main person.
19:38Okay. Because he knew you'd be there for him, right? Absolutely, yeah. Did he say he did something he regretted? He stole a hubcap off a car or he killed somebody? Did he get into any details about it? No, he didn't tell me that. Okay. Is it me or are people getting less and less sensitized to the act of murder? Maybe I'm just a bit old. Maybe I'm old-fashioned. But if law enforcement told me that someone I knew had killed someone, my reaction wouldn't just be, oh, well, you didn't tell me about that. As if it's some sort of minor detail. I mean, like, what the fuck? Listen, half an hour later, Detective Hayward was back in the interview room.
20:20This time, he was getting Brian Wimbley's side of the story. But sometimes, there are three sides to a story. Once Detective Hayward had both Zach and Brian's sides, he now had two versions of the same night. They agreed on almost everything except for, you know, the one thing that the critics of this show hate I keep talking about. Personal responsibility. So back in fall of 2022, Zach and Brian became something sort of like friends. They weren't that far apart in age and both were working for the road crew doing construction on an overpass. That's when they first became acquainted with LaShawn Keith.
21:02Yeah, there was a homeless guy that lived under the bridge. I mean, I can't tell you what his name was or anything like that. I really don't know. He didn't mess with us, really, for the most part, until there started being more people there. Oh, okay. That's when there was more people. Then it's like, oh, you guys are disturbing my home, you know. LaShawn was living under that overpass. He had a little impromptu campsite next to the train tracks. when more and more of the road crew started showing up week after week, he was pissed. Why are these people in his home? That sort of thing. Anyway, to LaShawn, this was his home.
21:41This piece of public property. And they were disturbing his peace. Tried to offer him a bottle of water one day because it was hot. And he was like, fuck you. And he just went off to the violent stage. One of the bosses tried to, I remember, he tried to give him a coat and some pants because it got cold towards the end of the season or whatever. It was starting to get chilly or whatever. And he pretty much told the boss to go fuck himself, too. He had problems with the train guy, too. He kept coming after the train guy. That's why the train guy would take one of us with. Even in the face of kindness, LaShawn was combative.
22:25His antisocial, homeless man behavior only escalated. When Brian and his dad and all of them come down there later on in the job site, he had started tormenting people, messing with them, throwing rocks at people, stuff like that. Kind of leaves the rocks at Brian one day. Zach said LaShawn started to target Brian. But Brian said it was Zach who had the issue with LaShawn, that he didn't take death threats lightly. And him, this homeless dude had issues, I guess, throughout the job. I guess the guy was throwing rocks and stuff at him and threatening his life, whatever. Let me see him after work.
23:04Well, I thought it was just bullshit about that part, that after work part. The homeless guy had threatened Zach. He's like, I'll fucking kill you and your whole family or some shit like that. I remember him telling him that he was going to kill Zach. and then Zach's like, I'll see about that. I'll see you after work and we'll see who ends up dead first. I didn't think that he was serious with that statement because like I said, I thought he was just a big bullshitter. At the same time, Zach claimed it was Brian who became obsessed with teaching LaShawn a lesson. Brian, he's talking about how, oh, this guy, he needs to get an ass look.
23:43He needs to, hey, something needs to happen. And I was like, dude, I was like, fucking let it go. you know, it's only a week, I think. Like, he really sat there, he thought, he talked about it, like, every day he was, like, really just gonna beat this guy with a hammer or something. I don't know. I was like, dude, I was like, are you still on that? Get over this. This is, you know, this is crazy. Whatever resentment had been building between the road crew and LaShawn didn't boil over immediately. Halloween came and went like any other workday. Earlier that evening, LaShawn walked to a nearby Circle K before returning beneath the bridge he called home.
24:21Hours later, after a night of drinking, Zach and Brian decided to go back and confront him. He decided he's like, hey, let's go to the bar one night. I'm like, all right. Yeah. I need a DD. We went out on a Halloween night, actually, and we got pretty drunk. I mean, It was about as drunk as we could get. And he brings up, he's like, hey, let's go to the job site. He goes, let's see if he's there. That auspicious Halloween night, they closed down the bar. What a menace alcohol can be. When it came to leave, Zach said it was Brian's idea to go back to the job site. But Brian said he didn't even remember leaving the bar.
25:10I don't even really remember leaving that night. we ended up back at the job site I believe so I was kind of like nodding off on the way there but I know we ended up back there once we got there part we I assumed he was just using John or something or whatever and I think I remember him saying something about I'm going to grab a sledgehammer At that point, I'm drunk. I'm like, what the fuck are we going to get a sledgehammer for? We're not working right now. We just went to the bar. There's no way in hell I'm doing anything if the boss asks right now. I'm going to tell him I'm drunk and I'm not going to be able to do it.
25:59And then, of course, I follow him down the hill. We walk down the hill and he had his claw hammer. It was this blue and black grip on it. I mean, it was a claw hammer. I remember because he lost it out there somewhere. And he was freaking out about it the whole way home. Each man said the other had a problem with LaShawn. Then they said it was the other's idea to go back to the job site that night. They both said it was the other one with the hammer. It's no surprise that each said the other was the first to approach LaShawn. These are basically two murderers who have no loyalty to anything or anyone.
26:48If you don't respect human life, even if it's someone that's of no use to society, then you yourself are probably the bigger problem.
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27:05and he swung at him, and I think he made contact with something. I mean, it sounded pretty loud, and the guy jumped up, I mean, right away. But from Brian's perspective, that was all Zach. Because I kind of, like, stayed back a little bit once I realized he was walking towards the barrel where the dude was sleeping. He walked over, and he, like, he'd take the hammer, and he said, wake up, motherfuckers. Bam! I said, get the fuck up. and definitely like he smacked a barrel a couple times tell him get the fuck up with his hand or with the hammer he got smacked it with the hammer the guy gets out like yo what you know he gets out he's like whoa like what the hell he's like remember me how you told me to meet you after work well i'm here well it's good what's going on starts yelling at the guy and the guy gets out and like bucked up to him.
27:59They got in each other's face and then next thing you know, Zach kind of like pushed him a little bit and he kind of, you know, your reaction is to push back when you're pushed. So the guy pushed him back and then they're kind of like pushing whatever is getting heated in my heart. Ain't too bad, ain't too bad. I still don't know why he has the hammer. And then they got closer to the tracks and I'm like, like I said, I'm probably 20, 30 foot away from him, just keeping my distance. This is the part where their stories start to diverge the most. Who was the first person to assault this homeless man?
28:39He was here, and they were coming towards me, so I went this way and kind of like hid by some bushes. And that's when I heard that first crack. And I'm like, that did not sound like a fist. That was a solid, hard hit. I heard the dude, like, ask for air after I heard, like, the sledgehammer, like, smack him. I'm assuming in the chest. Brian said he watched from a safe distance as a shoving match ensued. But Zach said Brian was the one in a rage-filled frenzy. So Brian hit him a couple more times in the back. And the guy fell and he went down to the ditch. And I took him off of him and I told him, I'm like, dude, I'm like, let this go.
29:23Like, let him go. You just taught him a lesson, you know, like let it go. And at that time he threw his hammer at him because he was mad. So he wanted to keep going and I wasn't letting him. Zach said he stood by as something of a referee while Brian taught LaShawn a lesson. Regardless of who the aggressor was, the violence of the confrontation only grew. And no referee stopped it. So the guy, you know, he picked the hammer up and he tried swinging at us, hitting us. because right for your life at that point you know you don't know what's going to happen in the world and uh i punched him because i was like i'm not about to get hit by this hammer and when i punched him i connected wrong i hit something around here and my pinky hit him up into his tooth and i broke my hand okay so i was very pissed when i broke my hand so i took the hammer and i took it and I swung down his ribs.
30:23I took it out his hand. I heard him that his ribs crack. And I dropped the hammer. I walked away because I was like freaking out at that point. I'm like, I can't believe it. I just fucking did that in my mouth. Zach said he was a reluctant participant, only there to watch Brian's back. But when he got involved, he broke his hand and cracked LaShawn's ribs. So there's that. The start of it was him. and then obviously things got a little more intense where they were kind of both tussling a little bit. And he yelled for my help because he started to fall. And, of course, I come out of the spot I didn't want to come out of.
31:08And a guy came at me once I got over there. Me being a little more guy, I definitely started to get scared because, well, he's coming at me now. Zach had gotten my hammer out of the truck as well as his sledgehammer. I did not even know that he had had my hammer out in the first place. The hammers were central to both sides, but they changed hands depending on who was telling the story. Pulled out my hammer and was like here and threw it to me, and I'm like, oh, God. Brian said Zach yelled for help. LaShawn was getting the best of him. He said Zach tossed him his own hammer. And that's when LaShawn came at him.
31:55He must have been so scared. So I freak out and kind of like went for his legs, tried to take his legs, knock him out so he wasn't coming at me. I got a guy that's a giant compared to me coming at me. like I didn't want to. And it just kind of got worse from there. I know. I know it was a melee. A what? A melee is like a hustle where everybody's elbows and assholes all over the place. You know what I mean? Yeah. Elbows and assholes. Never heard that one before. It's almost like poetry. In addition to having a small vocabulary, Brian was a man of small stature. He was only 5 feet 4 inches tall and 120 pounds.
32:48When LaShawn, a 310 pound 6 foot 1 man, came at Brian, he just swung the hammer. Got him in the leg with the hammer. The guy, you know, obviously, when we were doing that, he did kind of like buckle as he buckled down. and Zach came over, tackled him down, bam, bam, bam, started hitting him. The guy ended up kicking me in my chest a couple times really good, and I kind of went into a fog, kind of like a blackout. Like, I kind of blacked out because, I don't know, I'm assuming it got worse, and I don't even fully know too much after I blacked out. I'm not even really sure. When we got on the train tracks, it was when you actually hit him hard enough that he was able to fall.
33:42Okay. And that was the time he did. When did he get him on his body that caused him to fall, if you remember? It was on his lower knee. Okay. When he hit it, it just popped. Do you remember him with a pop or something? I mean, I moved the guy's leg and he quickly watched it. LaShawn let out a blood-curdling scream when Brian hit him in the leg. Zach pantomimed to detectives what LaShawn's leg looked like after Brian hit him with the hammer. He wiggles his limp hand in the air. Brian had broken LaShawn's femur clean through and turned his leg into jelly. And when the guy was on the ground or whatever, you know, I told him, I was like, all right, I was like, get the fuck up and leave.
34:28You know, I was like, this is enough of this shit. This is done. And he did get up and he started like running and he's like hobbling, trying to run away on one leg. And I was letting him go. I turned around going the other way. And Brian went and picked the hammer up and he chased him. And he went and he just hit him in the back of the head. You just keep fucking beating him. And I listen to that and he's just screaming, somebody help me. And I'm walking the other way, fucking throwing my hands up and down, like covering my ears. I don't want to hear this man begging for someone to stop beating him.
35:03This guy puts his hands over his ears and goes, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. While a homeless man is being murdered in front of him. I mean, what a fucking pussy. What a piece of shit. What is this, Clockwork Orange? Was Kubrick right about society? What is wrong with people? How do you put your hands on someone who just hurt your feelings with words? You know? Even if it's a threat. It's just a fucking threat. It's just letters strung together in a sound that comes out of your mouth. It doesn't hurt you unless you let it. Unless you're a weak, sensitive bitch. You don't put your hands on someone just because they hurt your feelings.
35:47That's not how society works. And I keep seeing more and more examples of this in general. While Sean had several broken ribs and a broken leg, he was lying on the ground begging for the beating to stop. But Zach and Brian got a few more licks in.
36:17touch me anymore. I don't hurt anymore. He's like, please just stop. Did you all stop? I did. Brian hit him a few more times because he kept telling me, he said, I'm demanding respect. He goes, you don't get the point. I want respect. I don't want anything else. I want respect. And that's what he kept repeating. Brian, though, said Zach was the one to land the final blow. I realized that Zach was at this point on top of him. Okay. Literally just giving him what to. And then the guy gets up, tries to walk away, and Zach just shoves him back down. So he went down when you hit him in the leg with the hammer.
37:02He went down and Zach jumped on top. Yeah. Okay. And then it was over. The melee had come to an end. The pair left LeSean lying on the ground next to the train tracks. That's when the enormity of what just happened hit Zach. Apparently, he can't think when he's angry. Seriously, what has happened to men? Why are we such emotionally weak trash these days? Because I told him, I said, look, I said, you killed this guy. I said, believe it or not, I said, you're going to kill him. I said, look at the fucking light leaving his body right now. He was like, oh no, he's fine. I said, no. I said, watch the heat leave his body.
37:44I said, you just killed him. So we went to the gas station. I bought the guy two Gatorades and some food. He drank one of the Gatorades, ate some of the chips. Oh, you brought them right back to him? Yeah, I brought them right back. Do they teach that in med school? All you need to bring the dead back to life after a hammer to the back of the head is some gas station snacks and the Gatorade. A thirst quencher.
38:39Was he awake? Okay, get on some good. You'll just, you know, know I'm lying to the guy, but what are you supposed to do in that situation? Well, you could have called an ambulance. Holy shit, this guy's dumb. Seriously, criminals are dumb as hell. That's why they're criminals. They never think to call an ambulance. I mean, if they had, they'd be in far less trouble. Unless he died, of course. But he could have lived. if only they had sought medical help. Instead, they got him a bag of chips and a Gatorade. What a bunch of nincompoops. Since when we left, I don't know. I thought the guy was still walking around, the last I knew.
39:23Like I said, I was drunk too, so he might not have been standing or walking or anything, but as far as I remember, he was still up and moving. LaShawn was alive, but badly injured. He lay on the ground, unable to feel his lower half while Zach gave him a pep talk. Brian just assumed he'd be fine. But did the two intend to kill him or just give him an ass beating? My intention was not to kill anybody. That was not my intention. I wanted yes to hurt him and be like, here's your lesson. some people are not to be fucked with in this world, but it was never my intention to kill somebody. From what you described, it kind of sounds like an ass beating going wrong, but I don't know how you would characterize it, you know?
40:18I mean, it was never my intent to take anyone's life. Okay. That was never the goal. You know, that's what I thought. I said, if I want to, you know, beat this guy's ass to the point across, I don't fuck with people. Yes. So I lost someone's life ever. You know? But Brian said... So you guys are... Went there, but you went there to have a confrontation with this guy. Right? Mainly him. Yeah. Add the vigor. Because it was time to send a message to him, I guess. Did you set out with the idea in your mind? Because this is the important part. Did you intend to kill him? No. No. That's the critically important part.
41:02Absolutely not. Not even the slide I could imagine killing it. I can't even kill a possum or a squirrel or a coon that's in a cage. No. To your knowledge, did Zach go there to try to kill him? I mean, I would think so just from the conversation that happened earlier that day. I mean, from you riding around with him? Did he say we're going to kill that guy or did he say we're going to give him a beating? He said we're going to kick his ass. Okay, that's not him. Okay. I don't have to understand you. That's as far as it wasn't going to go. Whether they intended to kill LaShawn or not didn't really matter.
41:40Because he was still dead. Of course, they wouldn't realize this until they returned to work. I remember waking up at home the next day. I knew something. When I woke up, I could just tell something wasn't right. Because we woke up and went back to work the next day. me and the train guy I would help the train guy help him take the derailers off off the tracks and we go back down there and we're walking and we seen the guy laying there and me and the train guy both said man he's not moving he's just maybe he's sleeping but I don't know if he's still there I don't know. The train guy was going to call the cops if LaShawn was still there the next day.
42:32So, when Brian saw he hadn't moved, he went to find Zach. Because I walked up to him after walking back, and I'm like, dude, that dude's not moving. And he goes, yeah, I know, I looked, I felt his pause, and you don't have a pause, he's dead. And I'm like, what? He's dead? This seems to be the moment that Brian suddenly realized the seriousness of what they had done. Hindsight is always 20-20, but sometimes if you're this dumb, you're just fucking blind. You're just an automaton acting on just emotion alone with zero impulse control. I don't think you're even human at that point. You're just a walking, large-language learning model.
43:18And not a good one. I don't even know. Did he try to get you to go back out and help? He did and I'm like I don't want no part of that. Like I can't even mentally bring in the fact that this is a real situation right now. And I'm like I've only seen this on crime shows and I don't even like to watch them because it's like it just turns my gut. Aw poor little bugby. Can't watch true crime shows because they're too scary. He said I didn't move by the next day. He was going to call the police and get him up there. So that's when I told Brian, I said, look, I said, we got to do something. He said he cannot stay sitting on these tracks.
44:02Brian would not help me deal with that situation. Tried to deal with it by myself. I couldn't because my hand was broken. Brian immediately started to distance himself from the situation and from Zach. He refused to help Zach move the body, he said. And then I had to make a phone call to one of my friends who, and he called somebody else that, you know, I guess, you know how to deal with things like that. I didn't. Zach called his closest friend, a man who had since moved to Florida, of course. And this friend hooked him up with Ochoa. Saturday, we come back, and he was in order to be found. He was gone.
44:54So what happened to the body then? He said him and one of his buddies. Did he tell you who it was? He wouldn't give me a name at all, so I don't even have the slightest clue. And then the next day, he showed up at the house. He goes, the guy is gone. And I'm like, what do you mean he's gone? He goes, we dissolved him. You dissolved him? What do you mean you dissolved him? Like, I don't get your concept. He's like, we covered him in acids and ate his body alive. Brian didn't help move the body and didn't help Zach pay Ochoa either. In the weeks and months to follow, the two separated. Brian lost Zach's number, and Zach eventually gave up on getting Brian to pay his half of the money for Ochoa.
45:44They stopped talking completely. They built separate lives, but neither man ever managed to leave that night beneath the bridge behind. Has this affected you personally, mentally? I mean, it's changed the way that I think about life in general, you know? Like, so is it fair to say you've been living through some hell? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always have you in your mind. You can close your eyes at night and see someone begging for their life. Like, I felt so bad about it. I've been at the church. Okay. What do you want? I mean, I'm there every Sunday. I talk to my pastor. I was like, Pastor, there's something on my mind that's not good.
46:31I said, I need help getting, not getting over it, but I need help with like, mental, like, help of getting through this. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't want to, I was like, it's unspoken. I said, just know it's not good at all. You heard that, right? He was about to say he tried to get a pastor to help him get over it. before he realized just how bad that sounded out loud and corrected himself. Remember, people will always tell you who they really are if you pay close enough attention. There's so many times I've gone on that trip before that I just start tearing up and start crying. By the end of the interviews, Detective Hayward heard the same story twice.
47:19Both men agreed on almost everything. They both admitted to their roles while trying to shift blame onto the other. But one thing wasn't in dispute. LaShawn Keith was dead because of what happened under that bridge. There wasn't one reason LaShawn died. There were weeks of resentment, too much alcohol, the wounded pride of young men, and one terrible decision after another. They had each expressed remorse. For the last 16 months, Zach and Brian had each been carrying the weight of that night. Zach said it changed the way he looked at life. Brian said it still haunted him. But remorse and responsibility aren't the same thing.
48:50The End final real break. After talking to Ochoa, they spoke with the two men who were responsible for LaShawn Keith's death, Zachary Traynor and Brian Wembley. Zachary Traynor and Brian Wembley both told the same story, but distanced themselves from responsibility, placing blame on each other. They minimized their roles, as most suspects do. But who were these two men when they were not trying to save themselves. Detective Hayward had done background research on the two young men. They were both holding down jobs and had supportive families. So which one's story was more credible? I guess what story did he tell you?
49:37I just know his friend that he was hanging out with at the time was a really bad person. Do you know who he is? Brian. Okay. Zach's sister had mentioned that Brian was the bad influence, and when Detective Hayward went to Florida to speak with Zach's friend, the one who connected him to Ochoa, he said something similar. I've never really liked him because he was a bad influence. That's something I will tell you. He was always a bad influence. He got him into shit I would have never got him into. He's just a bad influence. I was only on the phone with Brian about once or twice, and the first time he was cool, but the second time he started fucking Zach, so I wasn't with all that shit.
50:16I'm going to
50:24But Brian wasn't afraid of the police. He was afraid of Zach.
50:35Zach? I don't want to be associated with you. You are bad news. I haven't even talked to him. Yeah? Yeah, I've lost his number. All communications. I want nothing to do with him. I still concur. I can give two... Sorry about the language, but I can give two bucks left to even see his face again. I hope I got you. He stayed far away from me. He pulled the knife on my dad when me and my dad were arguing one day. Oh, no kidding. And he says, I'll fucking kill you right now. And he's told me before, when I was working at the gas plant, he told me that he had killed somebody before. And I was like, ah, he's just bullshit.
51:23He seems like a bullshitter. But when Brian followed Zach beneath that bridge that night, he began to wonder if those stories had been true after all. Like, he's already killed one person. He obviously looks like he's coming here for another reason than what he told me he was coming for. And now I could be the third body. So at that point, my brain was just like, semi-go with the flow. So if he tells you to do something, just obey him. Just do what he says. But like I said, I was scared shitless at that point. I heard that first. So you heard a thud and you don't know who hit who then? No, I was assuming because the one dude kind of grabbed his chest and went back.
52:14The homeless man? Like grabbed his chest and went back. And that's when I was like, dude, what the fuck are you doing? Like we're not trying to fucking kill the dude. Like you said you're going to kick his ass. That's not kicking his ass, dude. And his eyes like almost divine. Yeah. Looking dead at him. Like what the fuck are you doing? I'm like, you need to stop. Then what happened next? He's like, don't fucking worry about me. I think I had at one point tried to walk away, and he's like, you better not fucking walk away or you're next. But his voice didn't even sound the same at that point. Like, his voice had, like, changed, like, deeper.
52:54Okay. Which was scary. That kind of told me, oh, man, maybe he wasn't joking about the other person that he had killed. Brian wasn't the only person who described a different side of Zach. Months later, after they were both arrested, another man would tell Detective Hayward about conversations in jail. These conversations offered a very different picture. I got some information that you might have had a cellie at one point that had done a homicide. He's so stupid. He's talking about it right there in court. I mean, in the holding tank, waiting to go to court. And what was he? Was he talking to you or was he talking to somebody else?
53:38He was talking to me. Okay. What did he say about this? He said that, uh, he was like, prosecution is stupid. He said the prosecution, everybody's stupid. Him and Wimbledon. Oh, he told you the guy's name too? That's the guy that's iniquity. That's what made him start it because, uh. Were they both in the holding cell or not? Wembley or whatever was in the cell next to us. But he was like, he's code-ofended. That's a game. I started talking about him saying, dude, this is code-ofended. He said the dude told on him, this man crazy as fuck. Tell him about this. He did a murder in each other. Oh, and he said that he telling people, they're going to try to off Wembley in jail.
54:25Okay. You think he was giving you an accurate count or you think he was trying to be a tough guy? I think he was telling the truth. He was telling me he's laughing the whole time. Like you don't have no remorse. That's another thing. Like damn. He didn't have no remorse. He was laughing all the time. You know what I mean? He was saying like I'm only going to get 12 years. That's this whole thing. It's getting 10 to 12 years. And he said, well, we're supposed to be getting on a swing by the light, something like that. Whether Burton was telling the truth or simply repeating jailhouse bravado, he challenged the image of Zack that had emerged during the interviews.
55:07But Detective Hayward already had what he needed. Ochoa had admitted to moving the body. Zack and Brian had each admitted in taking part in the assault. Their stories differed on who threw the first punch and who struck the final blow, but they've already figured out all this shit in the law. If you go to a location with the intent of committing a crime, no matter what it is, whether it be assault or robbing a Snickers bar, and in that act, something goes wrong and someone dies, well, guess what? You're responsible for that. That's what the law is. So, it doesn't matter who threw the first punch.
55:50It doesn't matter. who struck the final blow. Stupid people don't realize this because they're stupid. Sixteen months earlier, Detective Hayward had stood in a muddy field looking at a body with no witnesses and only a single glove to guide him. That glove eventually led him to three young men with three very different stories, but enough truth between the three of them to hold each one of them accountable. In the end, both Zachary Traynor and Brian Wimbley were charged with second-degree homicide. Neither Zach nor Brian asked a jury to decide whose version of was true. Both accepted plea agreements and pleaded guilty to second-degree murder.
56:37Ochoa was charged with accessory to a felony after the fact. He was sentenced to a year and a half in prison. Zach and Brian, though, were sentenced to 15 to 30 years in prison for their roles in the death of 33-year-old LaShawn Keith and dumping his body in a hayfield. LaShawn Keith didn't have many material possessions, but he had a life, and he had a family, and he was a human being, and that's all that matters. He didn't deserve to be beaten, bloody, and broken, left to bleed internally until he finally passed away alone in the dark under a bridge. That's absolutely no way for anyone to go.
57:43Our latest episode of Sword and Scale Television is available right now at swordandscale.com. It's called Frail. You should check it out. And if you still don't know why there's some episodes missing from the free feed, why some are marked plus and unavailable to you, well, that's because we're not a non-profit. And you're probably not smart enough to be part of our audience. Anyway, you can find them at swordandscale.com. Duh!
58:19Thank you.
58:50Thank you.
59:35Give me moving Thank you.
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