Advice That Could Be Integral To Your Brand's Success

26:21More retailers never do understand some amount of effects-based drinks. For example, Target sells THC drinks in six states, as far as I'm aware now. And so they are starting to get it more to corporate level. But this is new. So it's not just educating consumers. It's also educating retailers. Independents are simply the first people to jump on. It was, you know, the Kava thing really resonated with me earlier because I was talking to one of our best accounts so far. We're new, so that doesn't mean a lot, but they're outselling our THC brand to 10 to 1, and they say we're pulling a lot of share from Kava because Kava has better familiarity in the marketplace, but the people who are trying our product are preferring the effect of it.

26:59And while obviously they all sit in that same chill zone, it gives people options to figure out what's going to work best for them in that effect space. So again, leading with the emotion, the effect, and then going for the ingredient afterwards, and that's how we are going to try to build this business. adam we're almost out of time uh price point per can 399 is msrp so on the high side although still within the realm of the category that retailer just mentioned that's our best retailer so far 799 per can on the shelf did you say 799 i did they're selling it for twice the msrp and apparently our most successful retailer doing it so we got to work that one out well it's interesting.

27:37I mean, people might think that because it's a replacement for alcohol, it should be priced at that level. I wonder if that's why that's happening, but who knows? You might be able to raise the price without blinking an eye or the customer blinking an eye. So thank you so much for taking the time. I think you've really got something here, honestly. It's a great looking product. I was looking at some of the reviews. People were talking about the taste and the different use occasions for it. So keep at it. And I know you're local to the Boston area here. So stop by the office anytime. We'd love to talk to you.

28:11Will do, Ray. Thank you. All right, great stuff. Let's move on to our next guest. That person is Alejandro Del Perel, who is the owner of Pinny Sparkling Cider. Alejandro, it's great to see you again. Great to see you too. Thanks for having me. I was introduced to Pinny, I believe, at the Summer Fancy Food Show in New York City. And man, I enjoyed what I was drinking. Tell us all about what you do. Sure, yeah. I mean, Penny is a sub-brand, you could call it, of Nine Pin Hard Cider, which was a company we started in 2013 and still operating and growing today. In 2018, we started working with an orchard partner on developing a process for producing sparkling apple cider in a can that was shelf-stable.

29:06And it took us a few years to sort of refine the process, but we came up with what was at the – we didn't know at the time, but what we realized about a year and a half ago was a completely new method for creating shelf-stable sparkling cider. Um, and, uh, the process was in fact patentable. Uh, we could have applied for the process patent on it, but we missed the boat because we started, uh, a private label, uh, business around producing it. And, um, and once you start selling the product into the market, whether it's private label your own brand or whatever, apparently that eliminates your ability to secure the patent.

29:44So, uh, nevertheless, fine. We're okay with that. We still it's still a unique and unique technique. But the result and Ray, what you're what you're what you responded to at Francis Food is essentially a sparkling apple cider canned that that still tastes like it's fresh pressed and right from the orchard. It's phenomenal to drink. And we've seen a huge our business now is predominantly private label manufacturing of sparkling apple cider. We do it for brands all across the United States and also for some major grocery store chains. And that resulted in 2022. We put in a new canning line to increase our capacity.

30:28And we realized, well, we did a good job launching a hard cider brand. And why don't we launch our own sparkling cider brand? So that led us to develop the brand Penny. And that's really the story. You know, I think me and Rifle were both nodding our heads at the same time talking about how much we enjoyed what we drank at the Summer Fancy Food Show. I assume by nodding, Rifle, you got to try some of this. I did. I got several of this, right? So, yeah. Alejandro, like, first, I applaud you. I don't know how you have a tin pin, this, and a private label, you know, contract manufacturing business.

31:11So, kudos. And I want some tips on how to manage so much stuff super well after the show here. But yeah, really great stuff. You know, it's dead simple. It's Apple. We've been consuming, I mean, maybe one of the first fruit juices that humans consumed over time and have been enjoying forever. So beloved by just about everyone, like hard to reject. or reject. So I think that's, that's kind of my question when it's, when it's, it seems so simple when we have access to it. I know I love the, the, the orchard fresh experience, but ultimately like, how do you, how do you break out with, with something that feels obvious and ubiquitous?

31:59And part of it's like, once you taste it, like you get it, but how do you get that first sip? Yeah, I mean, that is the ultimate question. And honestly, I don't know if I can fully answer it at this point. I do know that it performs super well at its price point and its packaging on the private label side. So we believe that by putting our energy behind the marketing and the branding piece of it with the penny brand, that it's going to basically perform equally well. Um, and you know, flavor obviously is, is the, is the, is, you know, a winner. Once you get someone to taste it, you know, they're, they're hooked and that's been our experience, you know, and everything we've done so far.

32:46Um, uh, you know, sort of thing that we've gone with, with branding was to try to pull apple cider out of like the seasonal space. Um, you know, if you look at the branding, it doesn't really scream fall. It doesn't scream, uh, orchard necessarily. It's got sort of a modern look to it, and the colors don't necessarily scream apple. So that is what we feel could be the way to get the consumer to consider it to be a drink that they'll be interested in consuming year-round as opposed to during that fall season when really apple cider thrives. We had some penny in the office. Key word being had. It went quickly.

33:32I was drinking it with my lunch. I assume that there's a lot of different parts of the day that you can drink penny. You could have as a non-alcoholic option in the evening. You could have it just as a refreshment beverage. But if you were to put it on shelf next to other beverages, where would you put it on shelf, Alejandro? Where do you think this is best merchandised? Well, believe it or not, the success we've seen in chain retail has been they put it in produce, actually near the apples, or in the Better For You set, you know, in refrigerated beverage. You know, it's a challenging space to break into, especially as a beverage brand.

34:16One of the things that produce buyers are unfamiliar with is the notion that it's shelf stable, you know, that it doesn't need to be in that little refrigerator. So we've helped, on the private label side, we've helped sort of break that barrier by providing displays that are designed to fit right next to the apples, believe it or not. I almost thought that you were going to say that Penny is merchandised next to soda, because people are looking for better for you options of soda, better for you soda as a set or as a category has been blowing up. And I wonder how many people might want to swap their high sugar soda with something like this.

34:58I mean, if you're talking about natural, this is essentially one ingredient is that right that's one ingredient correct yeah rifle this is my idea i don't know i mean but do you think penny could fit into this burgeoning better for you soda set yeah no i think you're i hadn't thought about it before but as soon as you said it it makes makes total sense because it's it's got the effervescence it has a little bit of sweetness it's got enough flavor behind it even has you know i didn't even think about this before but apple has some of those natural caramel kind of notes built into it too so you're right it fits in somewhere between you know your sprites and seven ups and then your more caramel colored colas so yeah that that i think you might be on to something that's interesting i love the i didn't even thought about the shelf stable side as soon as aljandro as soon as you said produce like it's one of the reasons why a lot of the like if you think back naked odwala they won because they were able to merchandise in a new set and the produce buyers were looking for higher ring and beverages being, you know, adding a lot more to their department sales than apples.

36:05And so I think produce buyers are on the retail from the retail are hungry for products like this. And if it's shelf stable and you can merchandise it, you know, on the floor or on the shelf or something like that's a win. That's super cool. Yeah. The other part of that, this, that I love is the pack size, A 7.5-ounce can, you know, portion control is also, you know, trending among consumers, trying to reduce as much, you know, calories and sugar. Why'd you land on that size? Why this size can, Alejandro? That's a two-fold answer there. The first was the new canning line we put in in 2022 suddenly opened the door for us to be able to package in a 7.5-ounce sleep can, which we never had the means to do prior.

36:49So we were kind of thinking of products. I have for years been wanting to put hard cider in a 7.5-ounce can, but I can't get distributors to buy in on that for some reason. But on the sparkling side, it's just the perfect serving size. You know, we do a lot in 12-ounce sleek cans too. And when you do sparkling cider in a 12-ounce sleek, the last four ounces of that drink are, you know, the carbonation wears out, the liquid temp comes up. It's just not as enjoyable as the first 7.5. So by keeping it at 7.5 ounces, you're really getting, like, a great experience beginning that. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so.

37:23Do you sell in four packs or is it in single cans? Yeah, we do both. We run 24 loose pack trays and also we four pack it as well. The retail on the four packs is we see$699,$799 in four pack for seven and a half ounce cans. There's something really fun about Penny. And I think fun and simplicity go hand in hand and just make it easier for the consumer to want to pick it up and know more. What is it about this can rifle that immediately stands out to you? I could say a number of things, but there's a lot going on here. But what really draws your eye? Alejandro, you nailed it. I love the vibrant colors.

38:07It's simple. It's geometric. It's alluding to the hemispheric shape of the apples without being an apple. So it's a little bit of geometric art. I'd love to see it eventually graduate up to a decorated, you know, fully decorated can instead of, you know, I don't know why you're putting a label on a can right now. But yeah, and then the name, like a four-letter name is gold. So kudos all around. If we had more time, I'd want the background on the penny name too. But yeah, well done. It's super sharp. I think the name comes from your parent company, right? Ten pin? Nine pin, yep. Excuse me, nine pin, nine pin, yes.

38:47It's like nine pin, but many, you know, penny. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Love it. That simple. Alejandro, we can continue this conversation for sure offline. And I feel like I would love to make that happen. You got something that's fantastic. I love your product and Bryce and I are clearly big fans of your branding. Please stay in touch. Let us know if we can help in any way. Will do it. Thank you. More great stuff. Let's keep it going with even more great stuff. Brittany Calderon is our next guest. She is the executive vice president and co-founder of Wookwater. Brittany, it's great to see you.

39:25Great to see you too, Ray. Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for joining us. Wookwater, W-O-O-K water. What do you do? So we are a functional hydration beverage. We were kind of born outside of a boardroom and more in the heart and soul of music festival culture. As longtime patrons, we saw that it was a very underserved community. There was nothing really kind of bridging the gap between alcoholic beverages, energy drinks, and then just plain water at any of the events that we were going to. So we decided let's build one. We were pretty intentional, though, with what went into the can. It's a very lightly carbonated coconut water powder base.

40:06And then it has some lion's mane mushroom and all theanine, great for that mood and focus. some electrolytes. We've got potassium, magnesium, you name it for all of the hydration aspects. And then there is a great deal of recovery aspects. There's some beta alanine, again, with the magnesium. There's some prebiotics in there, some vitamins. It's, yeah, I think it was just really overwhelmed, well, very well built for our community specifically and the very fast lifestyle that we live. Rifle, did you know, I mean, did you know that this is going to be the key theme? Because when I asked you about trends and innovation, you're like, there's just a lot of blurring of the lines going on right now.

40:49And it's good for the industry because consumers want things that are going to do a lot for them. And it seems like Wookwater does a lot for consumers. Yeah, I think you asked me this question, I said it before. It's about the occasion. It's about the purpose. Ingredients, the structure, the form, flavors, how you put it all together is they're Lego bricks. And you combine them in whatever ways that you can to solve the problem. So Brittany loved the focus on an underserved niche. You're at a festival, not my life, but I know people that are into that. And so I understand it. People are out there for hours in the elements, you know, they're dancing, they're excited, they're getting into the moment.

41:36You're hot, you're sweaty, you're, you know, you're losing all your electrolytes and everything. And you're maybe even consuming some other things where a little bit of extra hydration can be beneficial to keep you in the zone, let's say. So like, we've got products for sports that do this. Why don't we have something that's tailored for these consumers, that plays the part, that fits right in? So, and then, yeah, so coconut water is a base. I said this before, like coconut water, I feel like is an amazing ingredient that broke out a little bit on its own, but arguably it's better when it's the foundation you build other beverages on.

42:17So, love that. All the adaptogens, mushrooms, everything else going like, yes, throw it all in there. It makes a ton of sense for what you're building. So kudos on the product. Love it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I haven't seen Rifle at a Martin Garrix concert, but I expect that you would have fun, maybe with a can of Wookwater in your hand, but who knows? You know, what's really interesting, Brittany, is that this has an audience that, as Rifle mentioned, seems to be underserved. This is a product for a particular group of consumers. But when you think about the broad opportunity in beverages, do you see a point at which Wilkwater can have less of a specific focus and be more for that everyday consumer?

43:11Yeah. So we know exactly how the market to our EDM community, right? We've been active participants in it for years and years. So we're really trying to reach out and figure out where we fit into a lot of other outlets. We're finding that lifestyle or I'm sorry, like health and wellness, just given the ingredients of the can itself. It's really great, you know, after you get done with the workout or it's also a sober friendly beverage, but it's an alternative to alcohol as well. And we're finding some pretty great success with the 18 to 20 year old demographic. A lot of times when you're at any sort of on-premise location, there's an option for an energy drink or for water, but they do still want to feel like they're participating in some way, shape, or form.

43:58The fact that it's a whole can and the fact that it is a very tasty beverage makes them feel that way. All right. I'm going to do an exercise here that I do occasionally. I'm going to throw it to Rifle. Rifle, what would you imagine that the price per can of Wookwater would be?

44:19I'll try to be uninformed, but let's go for that$4.99 price point. Brittany, is he close? He's very close. It really depends on location, right? So we're in several convenience stores, and our price point has been roughly around$3.99. We could probably creep into$4.409 as we're getting our feet wet, but any sort of on-prem location, we're sold anywhere from$8 to$10. Okay, wow. Okay, so on-prem, that makes sense, and off-prem,$3.99. Rifle, in your experience, is there a particular sweet spot for a functional beverage like a Wookwater? Is it price sensitive, given that they do have such a specific audience?

45:04Well, I think it starts with that on-premise. Like, if you're going to be a member of the community, you're where the community is. So I think it's, I don't know that it's bound into the functional space as much as start with what works in the context of where you are. You need to stay as high as you can for as long as you can, because once you start seeding price, you can't ever get it back. So I think it's good for you to stay within your world, build that context. And I love the question, Ray, how does this go mainstream? But I think that's what the best functional beverages do. And I'll point back to the electrolytes.

45:41Gatorade was developed back in the 60s for college athletes at the University of Florida by scientists and doctors. It was serious stuff that the normal people weren't allowed to use because it was too powerful. Now it's little kids at soccer games, right? So the power of the brand gets devalued over time. So starting with your community, being about that, and then people will adopt it for other occasions, but they want to project the, hey, I'm a lively person, and this is the lifestyle that I want to project, whether or not I'm at the festival or not. So I think it's great to start in a niche and then radiate out.

46:23Yeah, and no matter what, you want people to engage with your brand, and engagement on social media has become such a critical part of a marketing strategy. I'm on your Instagram page right now, Brittany, and it looks very engaging. It's not just a couple photos here and there. You've got a bunch of videos. You do a series called Behind the Brand. Tell us all about that. Yeah, so that was through our marketing director. She had come up, and realistically, people don't just want to purchase the can, right? They want to purchase the brand, and authenticity for us is one of the biggest things that we really wanted to portray.

47:00We are not this massive company creating something for an underserved market that we don't truly understand. We're immersed in it. So it was something that we started filming and really just kind of opening up and just showing our community that we are exactly like them, that we are normal people, that we have favorite DJs along with them. And it really just creates all of that buy-in within the brand itself. And of course, then it rolls over into the beverage. Yeah. What's that? Oh, headbanger. That's, is that a, is that a necklace that you wear? Yeah, it is. It's called a purler. We can get you guys one specifically made so that way you guys can start wearing those in some of your future episodes.

47:46But, but yeah, it's, it's something that we kind of gift throughout our community at different events. Okay. I promise you, if you send us one, one of us on the team will wear it probably, but yeah, I'd be proud to wear a headbanger. What do you call it? What is it? I mean, I call it a necklace. It's not called a necklace. It's called a pearler. So I cannot make one. It was gifted to me. So that is, I can be crafty in a lot of different ways, but that is not one of them. Okay. Fair enough. You know, one thing we didn't talk about is flavor. And taste, taste, taste, taste is the most important thing when it comes to beverages.

48:22You don't have taste. You don't have anything. How did you go about crafting a taste that would resonate with your audience and one that could be a good base, I think, for all of your flavors? Yeah, so we wanted to get as close to all natural as we possibly could. But of course, we wanted it to taste very refreshing. But again, the lightly carbonation is helpful that you could drink it relatively fast. but it also helps to mask some of that saltiness from the electrolytes themselves, people that may not drink them all the time. So we did some research and found berry and lime were probably going to be our best foot forward.

48:59So we went ahead with our first production run with those two SKUs, and then we just recently introduced pineapple, which has been just blowing the other two flavors out of the water. Brittany, do you have your MBA or do you have a background in beverage? you sound like you have a really good solid foundation in business. Nope. It's been about a year. So quick learner, quick learner. I come from the construction industry, so I have zero. And if you have this, you have this. It's new. Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to think of the similarities, parallels between the two industries. I can't, nothing's coming to mind just yet, but you are, you're clearly you're off for a great start.

49:38And I think you've got a fantastic brand in Wilkwater. Thank you so much for taking the time. Whenever you have an opportunity to send us some samples, please do. I'd love to try some. Absolutely. I'll get them out this week for you guys. Thank you. Calling all UK listeners. Join us for a live CPG meetup in London, Wednesday, October 21st at Trip HQ. It's free. RSVP at tasteradio.com slash events. The Angel Group was among the first believers in brands like Poppy, Batchans, Goodles, and Siete. The next generation of great consumer brands is being built right now. Learn about investing alongside other industry professionals at wearetheangelgroup.com.

50:43John Sackstetter to discuss the evolving role of co-packers and what brands should expect from their manufacturing partners. Like what you're hearing? Put it into action at our winter events. Nosh Live, BevNet Live, and BrewBound Live in Los Angeles this December. Register by October 23rd to save$100. Head to cpgmedia.com slash events. On to our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk. That person is Jim Neal. He is the founder of Brica. Jim, great to see you again. Hi, Ray. Thanks a lot. Thanks for including me in this group of smart entrepreneurs. I've really learned a lot just listening.

51:27I'm really happy to hear that. I mean, that is a big part of why we do this series is to not just inform and bring awareness to the brands, but to help educate anyone who's listening, whether you're pre-launch or 10 years in. So I think there's a lot to learn from folks who are building innovative businesses, especially like yours. Man, I fell in love with Brica when I tried it at the Summer Fancy Food Show. I may sound like a broken record here, but there was a lot of really good stuff there. That's a fantastic, that was a particularly fantastic trade show. Brica, please tell our audience all about what you do.

52:01Well, Brica is a sparkling non-alcoholic dry beverage made with verju. And we use verju as the base. And then we make a bitter extract with gentin root, a lot of orange peel, dandelion root. The Brica 23 has cardamom and clove. And Brica 23 is orange. Brica 15 is tart cherry. So I've been making Verjue for most of my life. It's a brand called Fusion. And I wanted to expand the line. And it seemed like a logical expansion to become a non-alcoholic beverage. Verjue, V-E-R-J-U-S. For folks who are not familiar with Verjue, what is it? So, bourgeois is made from, we make ours with Chardonnay grapes picked about halfway through the ripening.

53:04So, the juice is left unfermented and it's real acidic. It hasn't ripened completely. So, the sugar level is lower and the acidity is quite high. And you get really bright flavors with also a mouthfeel similar to wine. And it's basically tart, sweet tart grape juice made from wine grapes. And Brica, the tagline on the bottle is a tonic for the modern age. This is not a tonic like a gin and tonic type of product. This is a refreshment beverage that you can, I would assume you have instead of a glass of wine or a beer or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's an option with some complexity and interesting aromatics and a great mouth feel and just, I think, a delicious beverage.

54:00It is a delicious beverage, both of your products. Again, Rifle, you were at the show. This was almost front and center in the new product section upstairs, and it was hard to miss, and I really hope a lot of people didn't miss it. Did you get to try some? I did. And Jim and I think we may have even met there. It's beautiful, like both visually and consuming it. So the confession, I'm one kid in college and college was a while ago for me that my local bartender kept a bottle of Campari down on the bottom shelf before Amaro's were fun and cool. So not to brag, but, you know, I was I was dialed into these flavor profiles like sweet stuff is not enjoyable for me.

54:47I like bitter and your products just nailed that. Love the verjue base. Like you said, a little bit more mouthfeel. That acidity does a lot from from what I recall. So amazing, amazing two products. They taste fantastic. Just they were they're light and easy, very refreshing. I could could enjoy them quite a bit. So and then visually nailed it. Right. It looks the part. Love the glass bottle. So many people are for good reason are in cans or some other plastic bottle today. But this being in glass and in tying into that more of a laid back European experience and even the pack size, like all the things check boxes for me.

55:33So super interesting. And yeah, just curious to see, like, I'm weird. I'm not normal. Are people out there responding to it or do they get it? I'm sure once they taste it, they're enjoying it. But how do you get people to have that first sip? Well, we rolled out at the Fancy Food Show this summer, and I would say 98 % of the people that tasted really liked it. And, you know, we're trying to differentiate from being a soft drink. And, you know, the bitterness plays a big role in that. The acidity elevates the aromatics. And getting people to try it is more about distribution and getting it out into the market further.

56:21We started out on premise with a couple of great restaurants in Napa Valley. French Laundry and Bouchon have been pouring it, and they're doing real well with it. I'm just starting to roll out in retail. That's been a little slower, but I'm working with trying to get a relationship going with the distributor here in Texas where I live. And although I live most of my life in Napa Valley, I've got some sales going out there. But we're going to start retail here in Texas. Jim, again, the tagline on the package and on the bottles is a tonic for the modern age. But would you compare yourself more to a non-alcoholic cocktail?

57:09Obviously, we've seen a lot of traction in that space. um saint egrestus with their phone negroni curious elixirs dissois uh guia do you want to be in the same space as those brands i think it's fitting but i do want to differentiate from a mocktail or i'm not a wine not really a mocktail or copying a cocktail just trying to make something interesting that that tastes good and has some complexity where you can sniff it in a glass and kind of wonder what's in there. And I want to appeal to both non-drinkers and drinkers and people that are wine drinkers. They look for complexity in a glass and the different sensations on the palate.

57:55So we're trying to hit all those things. And yeah, I'd love to be grouped in with those other guys. They're killing it. They are, but sometimes there can be a glut of products in a fast-growing space like that. Rifle, I mean, is this something you would advise? Would you advise if, you know, Jim were to be able to speak to a retail buyer or merchandiser about where this would best sell in store? And typically, you know, the store will make that decision. But do you think this is best suited in that non-alcoholic cocktail set? I'm going to go a little bit different. And I like the way you started in, you know, white table, premium dining, food service at a place where it's, you know, like a Thomas Keller or something, they're crafting an experience for their diners.

58:45And they've got wine nailed, you know, a little bit of beer, you know, you usually have multiple types of water and things like that. But to have something in a bottle that's refreshing and can be fast and easy to serve and fits the environment, like Brica, I believe would do, and I could totally see it at Bouchon. And so I would keep leaning into that world. You're not going to be fighting, duking it out on shelf with all of the others that are going to be competitive and try to drive the price down. Go to where they can't. And you've built something that's appropriate for those environments.

59:22Survey of what? Keep getting a lot of other advice. But as soon as you said that, it just clicked. I get it. And yes, and close to where you are in Texas. I'm sure there's lots of fine dining in appropriate places and it's hot down there. And having something like this to sit out underneath an umbrella with, you know, over some ice or not. Yeah, it's relaxing. And it is the tonic for the world we live in today. I understand the tagline. It's gets you relaxed and your mind off of all your other troubles.

59:56I'm going to trademark what you just said there. Go where they can't. I love that. Or where they won't. Or where they won't. That's good advice. The question, though, in the beverage game, though, is volume. Typically, it's about volume. So how do you go from specialty to volume is always going to be a big question. But it's really up to the founder, too. I mean, not every brand has to be a billion-dollar brand. So, Jim, I mean, I guess for you, what is your goal for this brand? What do you call success, Fabrica? National distribution, starting emphasizing fine dining, I think, and then carry that over into retail.

1:00:39Volume-wise, there's really no limitation. I just got back from California last week for making verjue. And this is the 33rd year. We did about 35 ,000 gallons of verjue. And there's so many grapes available right now. That's the main ingredient. I control the whole manufacture process. And I'm not buying it from a third party, so my costs are pretty good. So, yeah, I'd like to become a national brand. All right. I think you're singing to the investors right now, and the investors are liking what you're singing. So, outstanding stuff. Jim, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm so happy I got to meet you and be introduced to your brand now for a second time.

1:01:30Please stay in touch. If you have an opportunity to send, I think you may have sent samples to our office, but they disappeared like in three seconds. But if you have an opportunity to send more samples, we'd always welcome them. Absolutely. Thanks a lot, Ray. Thanks, Rifle. Action-packed episode of Elevator Talk with some phenomenal founders and some fantastic brands. I think you were the perfect man for the job, the perfect person for the job, Rifle, because you knew going into it what the consumer is looking for and what innovation really means today in the beverage industry. Thank you so much again for joining us.

1:02:05Thanks, Ray. It's always fun. And, yeah, this one was great. I always enjoy this, but founders are getting so good. and their products are really awesome and all on point. It's like hard to, I love it. I'm learning so much just from seeing what they're doing. It's amazing. Really appreciate it. Well, I know folks who are on this show or featured on this show want to get in touch with you. For folks watching and listening, I'm sure they want to talk to you as well. What is the best way to connect with you and the team? Same answer every time. Go on to LinkedIn, search Rifle, look for the one with the beard.

1:02:44Okay. That is the easiest way to do it. There are very few people in this. Do you know anybody else named Rifle? I do not. My great aunt was an admissions officer at a university, and she said one came through there, but that's all I've ever heard of. Okay. I've patented it. You can't do it now, so it's done. No matter what, even if there is another one out there, you're a one of one, Rifle. I might franchise, maybe. Always the best. I can't wait to see you again in person. But in the meantime, once again, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thanks, Ray. Let's get together soon. Absolutely.

1:03:20And thank you so much to all the entrepreneurs who joined us in this episode. Thanks to everyone watching and listening. And thanks to our incredible team at BevNet, Nosh, and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone, I'm Ray Lateef, and we'll talk to you next time.

1:03:41hey folks it's ray with taste radio right now i'm honored to be sitting down with john saksetter the ceo of silver king beverage company john it's great to see you hi ray thanks thanks for having me so what is silver king beverage company well silver king beverage is a copac facility in Salt Lake City, Utah. What's unique about us is that we actually produce aluminum cans and fill aluminum cans under one roof. So that's unique in North America, a model that we thought would be great to service the western part of the U.S., where canned supply was more limited, as well as copac capabilities. And so the facility was built.

1:04:22We're about 1.4 million square feet over two buildings, and we kind of provide an end-to-end service for our customers filling beverage products. Our goal is to be a one-stop shop. So we produce the can here, we fill a can, we can variety pack the cans, and also provide warehouse services for our customers. So there's a lot of flexibility in our manufacturing process, different MOQs that have enabled emerging brands and new brands to come to market with a lower MOQ, but then also scale and be produced on our high-speed lines as well. It seems like there would be a lot of advantages for beverage companies of all sizes to work with Silver King and its integrated model, but why specifically does it matter?

1:05:08I know you mentioned one specific reason, but what are the other reasons that a company would want to work with you and the integrated model that you provide? Sure, and we hope that's the case, right? We want to be a provider that, you know, is focused on quality and service and trust, right? I think that's such an important part of this is that brand owners are entrusting that process with us to make the product and the liquid that goes in a can and goes to a consumer. But I think, you know, when you think about aluminum can manufacturing and getting product for the West Coast, there's a freight savings, a logistics savings in that.

1:05:43You know, we're not a national provider. You know, we know that we have a regional focus and logistics and that cost of transportation on inbound materials, as well as an outbound, getting it to the consumer ultimately is a big part of the puzzle for a brand owner. And I think that's where we service a niche in the West. And by providing a can, in addition to the rest of the services we mentioned, there's a tremendous freight savings when you're not shipping, you know, air across the country to fill somewhere else, right? It's all here. So you save that leg of the supply chain. Do you work with companies that are brand new?

1:06:20Do you work with companies that are more established, that are, you know, large strategics? What size and stage of company is ideal to working with Silver King Beverage Company? You know, really, Ray, it's all of the above. And I think that's another strategic advantage that we have. So we have very, very large brands that work with us to supply a regional portion of their network, right? So that's great in a big volume. But we also have helped emerging brands and companies who are just starting out and that we're the first time they're making their product. And we have some low MOQs on both can making and can filling.

1:06:56So we have three can fill lines and one is 250 cans a minute with only a 50 ,000 can MOQ. So that lets those new brands produce at a scale that's more appropriate for them with the hopes that those brands are successful and then can graduate to the higher speed lines. And we've seen that. We've had some great success stories where brands have started here and then just really exploded and have moved from our slowest lines to our fastest lines. And we've helped them build. And eventually, those same customers end up finding other Copac sites on the east coast of the country because it doesn't, you know, again, it doesn't make sense to produce here for the east coast and ship liquid that far.

1:07:36So we help support that process as well. We're here for the customer and our brand owners. Clearly, flexibility is a key advantage of working with Silver King Beverage Company. But in your experience, why is flexibility such a critical factor for beverage companies? Great question. You know, and I came from the brand side of things. So I work with co-packers and I help build plants to support big brands. Innovation drives this industry. So whether it's new flavors or pack sizes, can sizes, whatever it happens to be, that really does drive the consumer. And so that is really important for the brand.

1:08:17And I think what we've created here is that ultimate flexibility. So we can produce almost any can size you can imagine. We can fill those cans, provide a multitude of variety pack options for customers. And then we also have the ability to take on different types of beverages. So we do a lot of sparkling water, energy drinks. We're doing a ton of protein drinks right now. We have our hemp license and are helping customers that have hemp beverages. And we're also getting into flavored malt beverages here. So it's being able to provide all of those services to the brands and be really quick and nimble as well because we're a small company.

1:08:54So being quick and nimble on the innovation front and helping customers through launching new products, new flavors, I think is a place that we excel as well. I've spoken with a lot of entrepreneurs who look at co-packers as pretty much one-dimensional. You make my product. In your case, you've sort of changed the model such that it's about so much more. But at the end of the day, it's really about trust. A relationship has to be built and based on trust. How would you advise brands and their owners to think about relationships with their co-packers and what they should be expecting from their co-packers?

1:09:34Yep, great question. And I think, you know, ultimately it sounds a little cliche, but it is about a partnership. It's not just a, you know, a supplier and manufacturer kind of working together to create a widget. It's about a partnership. You know, we have under the same roof here, we also have laboratories and an R &D center. We help companies kind of recreate their brands and make sure formulation is most efficient, right? So that we help them reduce costs. And that comes with trust in a real partnership where there's been companies that have come here and said, hey, this is the way it has to be.

1:10:08This is the way we do it. And we respect that and we'll do that. But then we'll offer suggestions to say, hey, we think we can actually make this more efficiently if you are open and willing to try A, B and C. And then working together, we do that. And I think we've had a lot of success there. So it's it's really about building the trust. And that's around quality and service, I think, is where it starts. You know, cost is always a big part of this equation and discussion as we bring on new customers. Everybody wants to drive cost as low as they can. But it has to be about much more than that because we all have to survive.

1:10:42We all have to make a little bit of money along the way here. And I think, you know, in the Copac world, it's some tight margins. And so there has to be a mutual respect that we all have to kind of share in the process here. And I think when we work together to find ways to take out cost, we all win. and it's more successful. Absolutely. So thinking about the future, how do you see Silver King Beverage Company as fitting into the future of manufacturing? You know, we want to continue to provide great service and be known for quality. And then as an employer, I think that's important too. We're building a place where we want people to enjoy coming to work and be proud of the work that we do.

1:11:24And really, I know when we do town halls and we survey employees, they're proud to go into a grocery store and pick up a can and see the Silver King logo on there and know that they helped put that onto the shelf. And so it's number one is building a great company that focuses on safety and quality and building trust with our partners. And I think for our partners in the industry, it's continuing to be super flexible, understanding the changing environment and what's really needed in the market. You know, I mentioned some of the things that are evolving like protein drinks, the hemp, again, variety packs, I think continue to be a big player in the market.

1:12:04So I think we have to stay in tune with our customers and understand what's driving their innovation for the next two, three years. With our really close partners, that's what we do. We have a connection into them where we're talking about what's coming down the road and how do we prepare as a co-packer to be able to address that and we want to be the first ones they come to to try new things so we have we have some really big customers that have little innovation offshoots that are kind of off the beaten path i'd say within their company and they come here to try on our smaller lines they'll run those tests and they'll do market trials and you know we we actually can print cans but we can also sleeve cans on our small lines so we really again, built a tremendous amount of flexibility so that customers can come here.

1:12:52We can be a bit of an innovation center and partner for them. And I think that's what, you know, is going to drive the future. I would say so. Innovative ideas need innovative partners. And it sounds like Silver King Beverage Company is just that. The website is silverkingbeveragecompany.com. There's a contact us link on there. Is that the best way to get in touch with you and your team? That is. And we monitor that daily. And so we try to get back to everybody really quickly within 48 hours. And again, we're excited to continue to grow and provide a great solution for new business in the West part of the U.S.

1:13:27Outstanding. John, thanks so much for taking the time. Really appreciate it. And let's definitely stay in touch. I appreciate it. Thanks, Ray.