AI Is Changing How Brands Are Built. It Can't Build Yours.

0:10Hello and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-hosts, John Craven, Melissa Travers, and Mike Schneider. As AI increasingly shapes how consumers discover products, we examine why emerging beverage and food brands need to appeal to algorithms as much as shoppers. We also discuss a proposed class-action lawsuit against the only bean over protein labeling claims and explore why early stage founders should think beyond niche audiences and bigger from day one.

0:54Well, with the 4th of July now behind us, it feels like the rest of the summer is for the taking. I don't know. I always feel like the summer goes by so quickly that I always dread the 4th of July because it feels like it's almost over at this point. I don't know. Stop. I know. I feel the same way. I know. Thanks a lot, Ray. I know. Sorry, but you know, There is time to go out and get some beach, get some sun, hopefully get some relaxation. But for entrepreneurs, the show never stops. And that's why we're here to help, advise, share some insights, share some perspective on what it takes to be very successful in this industry.

1:32I really enjoyed the interview I did with a guy named Nima Fotovat, who is one of the co-founders of a brand called Made Good. We published an interview with Nima earlier this week on Taste Radio. Made Good is a Toronto-based company that started out being completely focused on allergen-friendly snacks, particularly for lunchboxes, and obviously has evolved into something that is much larger than that, a taste-first snack platform that I love. I keep in my pantry all the time. There are bars, there are bites. They have these little muffins that they call oat bites that are just amazing. Melissa, you like a good Made Good bar every so often, don't you?

2:12Oh, for sure. Great for the kids' lunchboxes. great for grownups when you need an extra snack, just great all around. Great all around. Good all around. Good all around. Well, it's interesting you say that because the title of the episode is What Did It Take for Made Good to Become Great? So it's really about long-term planning and really thinking about the future of your brand beyond the short term, beyond the first few years and trying to consider what it takes to be a legacy brand, one that could be a generational brand at that. So take a listen. I think it's a great interview. That's just me though.

2:50You know, I actually stock up on those and Bobo's oat bites at Market Basket. Market Basket. Oh, good segue. Good segue, Melissa. Market Basket, the regional grocery store chain that is a favorite of Mike and Melissa, the M &Ms. I was there on July 3rd. All the ingredients were there for full combat, like no parking spaces. Nice. Just the place was packed. You could barely move your shopping cart. Did you stab someone to get the last Weber charcoal? It was not necessary. Or hamburger buns? No, it was the most joyous market basket. That wasn't a complete denial. You didn't deny it. Yeah. I've ever had.

3:29Where'd you have the body? I did not do that. It was unnecessary. In fact, everybody was, I think it's the World Cup healing people. There were a lot of people there that were in various country kits. I saw Argentina, I saw Canada, I saw Colombia, I saw others. I was probably wearing Arsenal. The conversations were, especially in the deli, fantastic. I had a conversation with a woman about salami, and then I was like, have a great fourth. And she's like, oh, I will. And I said, enjoy the World Cup. And she's like, oh, I'm going to. I'm from Cape Verde. And they hadn't played Argentina yet. And she was so excited.

4:07And then I got excited. And everybody saw it. It was a fantastic experience at Market Basket. You know, Mike, I would love to agree that the World Cup has changed everything and everyone, including Market Basket. But I feel like the healing power of Market Basket is a thing in and of itself. Maybe both coming together. I mean, that's like the Care Bear stare. Incredible. A very Gen X term. I know. No, it's fine. It's fine. You know, we talk about Market Basket so much on this podcast. I would love to have the owners of the grocery chain either on the show or at Bevanet Live or Nosh Live. But it's a little bit of a family dispute in terms of ownership.

4:46Yeah, I don't think they're going to do that. Darn I can do that for us. We're not sure who the owner is. I've tried and I haven't. Actually, I've tried. But actually, the folks at WACU, they were on the Market Basket shelf. So I've been talking to them about possibly doing a Market Basket show because everybody needs to know the joy that is Market Basket. All right. All right. Well, I still can't get over the fact that Mike had a conversation with someone in the deli line about salami. That was very interesting. I was making an Italian sandwich and I was ordering my salami and she asked me what I was ordering.

5:19Okay. And I told her and she's like, I love salami so much. And we had a great conversation. I was hoping it would end there, but it did not. I had a similar conversation at Market Basket about bologna. Oh, gosh. All right. Well, I am not going to Market Basket. I ordered mortadella. Just so John Craven's head doesn't explode, let's segue to a different part of the store or maybe just a different store completely. And that being the liquor store, I had this product sent to me recently and I met the founder. It's the package store, Ray. Okay, the package store. The packie. I met the founder of this brand at Bar Convent Brooklyn, which took place in June of 2026, obviously took place last month when I just say that.

5:57And it's a brand called - Because summer's over, Ray. Because summer's over. Oh. Well, it's a brand called Vermouth Mist. And I thought this was a brilliant product because it reduces the waste that is typically associated with Vermouth. Now, Vermouth - Huge global problem, right? It is a huge global problem. They've been talking about this at the UN. I think the NATO meeting this past week, a big part of it was about Vermouth. As most folks know or maybe don't know, Vermouth is a perishable product. So when you're making your cocktails, you open up the bottle, you got to put it in the fridge.

6:34And even in the fridge, it doesn't last longer than two to four weeks or so. So this guy created this product, which looks like a perfume bottle. And it's really just a mister so that you could just use mist as opposed to pouring an ounce or two ounces of vermouth into your cocktail. That's going to be a lot of sprays into your Negroni, right? But I tried a, I think it was a martini that he made with this, and it was amazing. And so I know we're not going to be making any martinis or cocktails anytime soon, or at least not this morning. But yeah, I thought this was a fun thing to play around with, and I'm looking forward to it.

7:11I saw Vermouth Mist, and I'm like, what is this? I was thinking it was more like, I don't know, your version of like Axe Body Spray. My Drakkar Noir? Maybe a replacement for Febreze? I was going to say maybe a replacement for Listerine Straps. I thought it was like your Christmas. Air spray? Air spray? So many things. Would not have guessed that was what it was for. Well, we're going to test this out. We're going to make a few cocktails. Not right now, but we'll tell you how it all came out in an upcoming episode of the show. Yes. Do I spray a little gin in my mouth at the same time? Or a martini sensation?

7:44You know what? Throw a bucket of Campari your way through it. That could be an interesting way to reduce alcohol consumption. And I know people are complaining about that these days. Yes. Right? or at least concerned about these days yeah maybe just in a vape perhaps oh no perhaps sorry well vermouth mist may not replace all of the bottled vermouth that we see in america or beyond but there are still concerns that ai is replacing jobs our lifestyles are very different now because of ai but you're not even real it's just an ai voice this is just an ai voice which is very possible actually. No, in all seriousness, it's an interesting time for consumers.

8:26It's an interesting time for brand owners because it's not just about the algorithm anymore. Remember, everyone was always talking about, oh, how do you beat the algorithm? How do you navigate the algorithm for all these social media companies and Google and so on and so forth? And now it's how do you navigate AI and all the things that are changing on a daily basis with the advent of AI? And so we had a great panel at BevNet Live New York City 2026 about how AI is reshaping the shopper journey. And we had three tech marketing and sales experts, Kevin Sen from Aisle AI, Lynn Altman from Brand Now, and Jess Graham from Banquet.

9:07And what they talked about is how founders can manage AI on platforms like Amazon, Instacart, and Walmart. art. Obviously, you should tune in to this panel and you can do so even if you didn't visit BevNet Live by being an insider for BevNet or Nosh. And you can watch the entire panel on both BevNet and Nosh. But I want to talk about how you perceive AI, John Craven, as positively impacting or maybe making it more challenging for brand owners to get their products to market and make sure that consumers are paying attention to what they're selling. Well, first of all, you know, while these guys were off, well, at least Mike at Market Basket on July 3rd, I was sitting at my house getting, you know, ready to watch a World Cup match.

9:56I don't even remember which one. And I get this notification on my phone from GoPuff. It was trying to promote that I should go buy a four loco. And it was a moment where I was like, man, these guys need some AI here, you know. You should know my buying habits. I mean, you probably don't need AI for that, but it was kind of weird. Did you have any guests at your house at the time? Were there other folks that may have been potential for local consumers? I was coming over later. Okay, well, there you go. Mike, Mr. ForLoco. Yeah, it was a little strange. But look, I mean, the sessions we had at BevNet Live, which touched, I think, a bunch of different ways that AI is kind of impacting the CPG landscape today and in the near term.

10:37Yeah, I mean, it's for sure something that it's really interesting to see how brands are leveraging it, you know, and some certainly aren't leveraging it at all. Some are just using it for kind of what everybody else is using it for, putting stuff in chat GPT. We've seen brands that have designed packages and whatnot from it. But I think, you know, how it ultimately makes for a better retail experience, I think is, I don't know, it's almost kind of hard to wrap your head around right now. You know, things should get pretty different. But, yeah, I would definitely encourage folks to watch those sessions from BevNet Live.

11:15Better for you ingredients can help a product stand out. But turning those ingredients into a business that grows is the harder part. Join Nombase for a free webinar on July 28th with Tom First, founder of Culture Pop, and Heather Wood, SVP of Marketing at Goodles. They'll talk about what it really takes to build clean label brands that drive trial, repeat purchase, and sustainable growth, from formulation and sourcing to branding, retail, and operations. Sign up for free at nombase.com slash podcast. One thing that I have definitely noticed about AI and the implementation of AI in email communication or on social media platforms is that unless you actually have a foundation that is authentic to your brand and to whatever company you're working for, if you're just letting AI do the work, it's going to be a bad experience for that end consumer viewer.

12:13anyone who's consuming that content. Yeah, you should not be sending AI slop to your customers. You should not be replacing all of your employees with AI bots. I mean, the thing is, AI just makes the people that you have more productive because it can take some of those more menial tasks off their plates. It can help them think more about their strategies. They can help them poke holes in them, develop scenarios, but it also often will take you down the wrong path too. And it can hallucinate. It can get you to try to accept something that isn't going to work for you. I think it's just very dangerous to think that AI can replace your entire workforce.

12:53You know, I thought a really important point that was brought up at BevNet Live when it comes to AI is how product data is marketing. So all of the material that you have yourself or your brand online is important, but then also third-party information is really important because AI prioritizes third-party information. So, you know, that's stuff like being on Taste Radio, Elevator Talk, Non-Based Podcast, our co-publishing campaigns for service providers and suppliers. So all of that stuff really helps. I think it's also just to some extent enabling lazy behavior too, you know, this kind of like, yeah, just let AI do whatever.

13:32It's like the old spray and pray approach times like with 10 more spray, I guess. But, you know, there's one that stands out to me just in AI slap, not going to name any names, but it was a PR company that was basically, you know, using AI for a BDR kind of thing to drum up people to meet while they were at BevNet Live. And the opening paragraph was supposed to be contextualized to the recipient and the first sentence was something about hey congrats on you know putting together BevNet Live that's a really amazing community just AI slop and then it's like are you going to BevNet Live it's like well done John Craven are you going to BevNet Live I'm impressed that you even read down that I mean they might have mine that one time that you didn't go due to The subject was like, are you going to BevNet Live?

14:24And I'm like, well, God, I don't really want to, but I guess I have to. No, but I think... Kidding, kidding. I mean, I think email messaging, email communication is one form of... Or one way that AI could go really wrong for your brand. But I also think that if you let AI define who you are as a company, as a brand, as a product type, I think that's a really dangerous... Very dangerous. ...slippery slope. I think... You really have to know who you are, what your brand stands for, what it's about, why consumers love your brand to begin with, and then let AI enhance those aspects of your brand and business.

15:01AI is not an expert immediately on building brand, and it will make you think that it is, and it's going to give you a lot of good ideas, and it's going to go and scrape the internet to try to find the thought leaders on sites like ours who have put their ideas out there and synthesized those for you. But at the end of the day, you should either think about how to build it yourself and build it the way that you're going to feel comfortable running the brand and executing on that brand or have the expert themselves come in and help you craft the way that you're building your brand. Because otherwise, you're just taking the best practices that the AI model is finding, putting those together and creating something that isn't your identity, as you said, Ray.

15:50And how do you find those experts that you were referring to, Mike? You find them on Nonbase. You find all those folks who are the service suppliers, the partners, the providers that can address the needs of your business and address them in a way that's based on experience and objectivity. Nonbase. That's right. There certainly are a lot of them on Nonbase. I do think you still can find them via AI as well. They just blew up my entire point. Your point is to go to a site that has authority where real people are having real conversations and sourcing that way. But you can also compliment that.

16:32Yes, you definitely should be searching for the appropriate experts when it comes to law and legal matters. And again, I think you can find a lot of those folks on NAMBASE. And you might avoid the problems that we're seeing the Only Bean face today. The Only Bean is a maker of dry roasted edamame snacks. And recently on Nosh, our very dear colleague Monica Watrous reported that the Only Bean is facing a proposed class action lawsuit, alleging that the company misled consumers by overstating the usable protein content of its products and failing to comply with federal labeling requirements. What is usable protein content, Melissa?

17:23So apparently the FDA has a Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, PDCAS. I mean, I just want to say that acronym in general is ridiculous and too long. But anyways, that's the amount of protein that your body can use. I actually wasn't aware that this factored so heavily into nutritional panels, but I guess this is something that all brands need to be aware of. And depending on the amount of digestible protein that you have in your product, that affects what you can say on your packaging. What I thought was really interesting is that the plant-based protein seemed to have, you know, less protein digestibility than things like whey, milk, and egg.

18:08When I was digging into this and digging into the protein digestibility score in general, I found that collagen has a score of zero so that your body can't digest collagen on its own as a protein because it's not a complete amino acid. You just dropped a bombshell of all bombshells in the middle of the show. Like, what? That's a conversation you should have with Mark Sisson. He would talk to me about that all the time about how you don't actually digest the collagen. It's just like you're basically throwing it at your joints and hoping that it absorbs them or something along those lines. Yeah.

18:41And when you look at packaging, I mean, hopefully when you look at products that are based around collagen, they talk about the amount of collagen peptides, but not necessarily the amount of protein in the product, unless it has that other amino acid profile in it. Look, this is always one of those things where just a reminder that you should have a legal professional reviewing your package and label. And also, you know, the class action side of things, as we've talked about before, to some extent, it's like a sign that you're doing something right, at least in terms of your business objectives, since, you know, those usually aren't targeting companies that are super small or not on a growth trajectory.

19:22But this is the type of stuff that there's just increased risk the more CPG ventures into functional areas. These little claims that seem innocuous as marketing claims turn into these things. And apparently brands like Huell, Owen, and Kodiak have all been socked with lawsuits when it comes to protein. This actually dovetails nicely into a topic that Sherry Fry from Nielsen IQ brought up on the Nonbase podcast. It was right after Expo West, and she was talking about how one of the next trends in protein will be marketing the quality of the protein versus the quantity. So we're seeing that. Yeah, right.

20:05Exactly. Because they're just throwing all this protein at us. And do you actually know what it does? How much do you need? How much is useful for your body? I don't think we all know yet. No, I actually wonder. Finger number's better. That's what they say. That's why I get the 30 grams of Chobani. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I wonder how many people are really buying the OnlyBean for its protein content, if you look at the packaging, it is not the biggest and boldest part of the label. In fact, I believe all I can see is the macro call-outs at the very top of the package. And I imagine there are a lot of people who just want a healthier snack, say, than chips or pretzels or what have you.

20:46And this is a good whole food option. And maybe the protein isn't the primary reason. I'm not that well-versed in the company and the owners and operators of this brand know much more about it, but maybe it's not worth the call out that they're making right now. And I'm interested to see where this all goes. The founder of the company and CEO said this in the article, the grams we claim are lab tested and accurate. We have counsel reviewing this. They mentioned similar claims have been filed across the category, and they are confident it will be resolved. So more on this story, I'm sure, to be reported on.

21:22And I know our very dear friend and colleague, Monica Watrous, will continue to follow it. Taste Radio meetups are continuing in Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco, and London. Come hang out with the food, beverage, and beer community for live podcast recordings, CPG networking, and sample sharing. Want to attend or partner with us? Head to tasteradio.com slash meetups. Quick pause to let you know that the leading event for the beverage industry is headed back to Los Angeles this December 6th through 8th. BevNet Live brings founders, investors, retailers, suppliers, and operators together for product discovery, high value conversations, and partnerships that can shape what comes next.

22:00Early registration pricing is available now. Head to bevnetlive.com to register. Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to noshlive.com to register. What are you crunching on, Mike? Well, Ray, it's almost like you're gumming it as much as you are crunching it. Our dear friend, Matt Flackator, from Talkback, sent us... Talkback is... I was going to get to that, Ray. It is a brand of spicy shortbread cookies.

22:37that use very interesting ingredients like cumin and green chili and also gochugaru and toffee. This one is a newer flavor to us, the gochugaru and toffee flavor. And it's pretty interesting. I always like sweet heat. I don't usually think about it in a cookie. They call it spicy. Oh, do they? Yeah, that's the new thing. Yeah. Hold on, I'm going to start crunching too. Nice job, kids. The cumin and green chili, it used to be like a lot of cumin, remember? Very, very spicy. I'd be curious what you think now. I do have to wonder about their approach to flavors. And I almost feel like this is bordering on very niche as opposed to...

23:20Super niche. Yeah? Yeah. I think we can say that. I just wonder if, you know, it's fun. It's exciting. You get to try all these different flavors in cookies and it's a very exciting taste experience. I agree, Ray. I mean, this is a product that they're doing well in the farmer's markets. It's a, you know, dad and son business, and they're having a great time doing this. I'm not sure what the ceiling is for this. I hope they can find some kind of mainstream distribution, but it is pretty niche to have cumin and green chili in a cookie. This is not necessarily a one-to-one comparison here, but I do recall when Body Armor launched, Body Armor being the brand of natural sports drinks, and Lance Collins had talked about his own mistake in creating flavors that were a little out there for the mainstream consumer.

24:06And within a few months, he pivoted and focused on flavors that everyone knows. So instead of saying, we're doing, I don't know, like a dragon fruit and raisin berry or whatever it was, he's like, let's just do orange mango and fruit punch. And quickly people caught on to the flavors that wins yeah so you're saying talkback just needs a chocolate chip i'm saying that talk back would or do well to having flavors that are a little bit more well understood and appreciated by the mainstream consumer i know this clearly defines them and differentiates it sure does but that's their innovation yeah because it's a great spicy shortbread cookie i think with any of these and look i really like these products they're unique i think it just needs to lead with shortbread more.

24:57Right. Because I think that in its current form is presented as something that's like the footnote on here. I couldn't even tell you what this flavor is. Like, I'm not going to remember Goju Garo just from looking at it real quick. Right. Make it more approachable. Alyssa's got a little tears over there from the heat. I would say I think the crushability of these shortbreads are limited because the spice, it really, really builds. and maybe you could have one with a cocktail, but this is not something you can just pound and all of a sudden realize you've emptied the bag and you need another one.

25:33I would pound these. I think the opportunity of positioning, if we're just keeping the product as is, is that it's a spiced shortbread. Just keep it simple. Because if I said, hey, Melissa, what are you eating? There's no way in hell you're going to be like, oh, I'm eating a goju garu and toffee shortbread because that kind of sounds pretentious, right? you'd just be like i'm eating a kind of spicy shortbread look this is the kind of constructive criticism i think we're trying to share with talk about because again we like this brand a lot but the lesson here i think for a lot of brands at least what we're trying to offer here is that if you think about the broad opportunity and the big opportunity for your brand beyond say a specialty retailer or i don't know a roadside convenience store in vermont where I feel like this would fit really well.

26:19If you want to be in a Walmart, you're probably not going to get in there with these flavors. Well, let's forget about Walmart for a second. I do agree with what we were touching on before that they just need a flavor. And I don't know, it feels like the wheels are turning because this toffee one is way less spicy than the others, but they still need to just do more to bridge the gap between, you know, someone who maybe understands a shortbread, wants an elevated one, but isn't ready to go out on like a real limb here. I feel like Talkback is where a brand like the brand that John Craven is holding, Daily Crunch, where they were about five or six years ago.

26:58Daily Crunch started out as being really focused on the fact that they're a brand of sprouted almonds, and that was the differentiator right there. But at the end of the day, I think people love this brand and love their product so much because they just taste so great. Yeah, I mean, I didn't plan that segue. That's why I'm here, John. But it kind of works out. But anyway, I do think, I mean, I have Daily Crunch's two new flavors. They have a churro and a Mediterranean medley. The churro one is not sweet like an actual churro, but the kind of spice of it. One promotes itself as having five grams of protein in the churro and six grams for the Mediterranean medley.