Could Bad PR Work In Your Favor? Plus, Lessons From A Raucous 'Slam' & Rave.

0:10hello friends and thanks for tuning into taste radio the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Bruke-Liera, and Mike Schneider. Get access to limited swag and exclusive content by becoming a Taste Radio VIP. It's easy for you to join that group of very important people. Just head to tasteradio.com slash VIP and take one minute to sign up. Why do we have pizza in the studio, John Craven? You know, I just like to have a snacking pizza at all times. 11 o 'clock in the morning i love or eight o 'clock in your case jack yeah do you have a pizza in your studio over there i do not i do not but i'm always ready for pizza if you want to send i just keep it right here just always have pizza ready that looks like a delicious whole foods 365 non-organic thin crust pizza so specific this is a go puff delivered cauliflower margarita pizza no no no yeah they they deliver it like this with no box just throw it through the window just like here's your grubby pizza go puff frisbee competing with dominoes now but the pizza is here so we can try the uh the most can i call it jokingly the most controversial product of the week oh gosh brightland pizza oil and i'm saying that with sarcasm because i was kind of kind of silly but um yeah i got my hands on some brightland pizza oil i figured we should try it but that requires pizza let's explain why there's been some controversy here.

1:45Brightland pizza oil comes in a white squeeze bottle, 12 ounces. It's got a red label and a black cap. It looks like moisturizer from here. It sort of does. You know, there was one entrepreneur, one food entrepreneur who thinks it looks like Graza olive oil. That's the founder and CEO of Graza olive oil. That's Andrew Benin, who posted a bit of a diatribe on LinkedIn, calling Brightland out for ripping off what he perceives as ripping off his product. And there was a lot of backlash to that post with entrepreneurs being like, you didn't create the squeeze bottle. It's been used in restaurants for many, many years.

2:21And yeah, he got a talking to from a lot of folks. And it actually became such a big story. And even the New York Times picked it up. They wrote an article about this, about, let's see, Then was this on April 28th? Over the weekend, yeah. Over the weekend. And it was called, this week's tiniest social media drama is about olive oil. Andrew eventually apologized and apologized to the founder of Brightland. Throughout this process, Brightland didn't say a thing. The founder didn't say a thing. I think they just let it play out. Taking the high road. Yeah. Very much so. Taking the high road, but also just enjoying all the PR hits.

3:01Both sides, really. Yeah, here we are talking about that. Well, I don't think it was enjoyed. I guess on the other side, but, uh, yeah. The other side being Grazia you're talking about? No, Brightland. Oh, okay. But yeah, that was a strange, unfortunate thing that, look, I totally get the emotion of someone who has a product that they're really proud of feeling super passionate about it. But it also is probably one of those things that when you're feeling really emotional and upset going onto social media, probably not the best thing to do. So hopefully they'll all learn from it and move on. I mean, it's certainly got a lot of eyeballs on it.

3:43I mean, I had friends asking me if I knew these companies and had ever tried these products and if I had any. So it stoked interest. There you go. That was my point. That's why I was thinking everyone might be enjoying it. We should try some. Here, have a strange little slice of pizza here. I need some oil here. Pass one over to Mike. Okay. Yeah, I need some pizza oil. I'll take one. Pass one over to Jackie, too. Here you go, Jackie. So this stuff, it's good. Jackie, take it. Come on, Mike. Thank you. Thank you for the virtual pizza. It's pretty spicy by itself. It's like cold-pressed with jalapenos and herbs, I think is what it says.

4:19I'm going to use my BreadNet hand sanitizer. Pass that bottle back here. I'm going to lube my hands with Brightland Pizza Oil. I'm going to throw it, but it's open. Oh, geez. I think I'd love this. You know, when you get the little red pepper packets and you put that on your pizza, that was always my go-to. As a marketer, do you think this is one of those cases where all PR is good PR or is this a really bad look for Graza? I think right now it's a big deal, but I think over time it will fade. I think it just really sparked a conversation that happens amongst a lot of founders, especially when they're getting started or they're growing.

4:53they're really protected of their baby. And I mean, they can be very protective of how they create the product, their original ideas, things like that. But I don't know, I think it's just building a set of products that maybe consumers don't understand that olive oil can be in a squeeze bottle if they haven't worked in a kitchen or used it for culinary reasons. Well, this also feels like a pretty different product. I mean, it's spicy olive oil. It's almost like hot honey is to honey as you know brightland pizza oil is to normal olive oil so i mean this feels much more like a condiment than a culinary ingredient and i know like graza is also meant for sort of drizzling but again i mean it's just different product so totally different looking package too like graza is a green bottle with sort of i want to call it i don't know 60s slash 70s kind of a 60s slash 70s kind of aesthetic.

5:48Whereas this is just like a straightforward white bottle, which reads very straightforward, Brightland pizza oil. The aesthetic for this looks like, you know, Anytown America pizza store. Well, it's a white opaque bottle like the Brightland bottles too. I mean, look, I think my analogy with hot honey, I mean, you do see Mike's hot honey on menus at pizza places. So this is sort of like, you know, I like sort of a nice alternative play on that. But a lot of people were responding with copying as a form of flattery. And I'm not really sure that's sort of like the thing that appeases an entrepreneur who's emotional.

6:22But this particular case, there's also a lot of haters on olive oil in plastic bottles in the first place. So to have another company joining the fray and making that into a premium product is probably not a bad thing in the long run. So I guess we'll see how that works out. I'm with Jackie on this one too. I think in terms of, you know, just for Brightland and Graza, people's memories are pretty short. I think if I asked you to say, what was the last time we had this kind of social media drama, it would take you a few minutes to conjure up what it was. And in the long run, what people are going to remember, if anything, is that Graza and Brightland have an oil that I could potentially put on my pizza.

7:06Yeah. You know, and Andrew in his initial LinkedIn post said, while friendly competition is always welcome, I do view this, being Brightland Pizza Oil, as a blatant disrespect, and I'm choosing to voice my discontent. Later on in another social media post, he had said, I was heated and I reacted poorly, and I have learned from the variety of comments that everyone has left today. Well, perhaps for the after party at BevNet Live Summer 2023, we'll have pizza on hand, and if we do have pizza on hand, hopefully we'll have some Brightland Pizza Oil. speaking of that incredible event that's happening in new york city on june 14th and 15th today you missed ray just called it unork city today is the last day to register for bevnet live and receive a discount last day for early registration as it were you can save up to 200 off your ticket if you register today may 5th if you don't you have to pay an extra 200 if you want to come i I don't know why you would wait.

8:05It doesn't make any sense, folks. Register today. Save the money. Take that$200 and have a nice dinner out in the town in New York City. That's what I would do. As we've mentioned in past episodes of Taste Radio, we're excited to see the fine folks from Applied Food Sciences at BevNet Live, summer 2023. Applied Food Sciences is the presenting sponsor for this episode of Taste Radio. They are the leader in innovation for functional organic ingredients in the natural products industry and built on the belief that quality is transparent from seed to label through organic farming, ethical sourcing, and sustainability.

8:42You will want to learn more at AppliedFoods.com. I'm happy that there are sponsors and I think they're great. I think they're a great resource for the industry and just great members of the community. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I mentioned the after party at BevNet Live and Brian and Jackson will be there. and again you know these networking opportunities don't come every day and you know having the opportunity to pick experts brains on formulation package design finance things like that those are the folks that are going to be there at the after party and let's say you do have a problem with formulation and you can't find a way to fix it maybe you don't like the sweetener you're using you want to talk to folks like brian and jackson about how to fix it how to make it better tasting how to get consumers not to just like your product but to love it I'm surprised I'm not more jet lagged.

9:32Maybe I am because I keep screwing up and you won't hear it because our editing team is that awesome. But I got back from San Diego on Friday after a very quick trip, less than 72 hours. But it was an amazing, incredible experience because I got to emcee the third annual Naturally San Diego Pitch Slam. Just a phenomenal event. Jackie, you were there with a bunch of the folks from the WCB, the West Coast branch. It was amazing. I mean, the crowd was rowdy. They were ready to come up on stage and give you a hug and a high five. It was awesome. Yeah. So when I did get up on stage and introduced the first contestant, that's Wynn Austin from Wynn's Kitchen.

10:11I mean, I wasn't expecting, like, I was like, oh, let's hear a round of applause. And it was just like, and it was just like, it sounded like, I don't know, Michael Jordan just came up on stage or something like that. It was really amazing. And then when she departed the stage, it was just as loud. So a fantastic event. Six brands representing food, beverage, personal, and households, consumer products were represented at the show, at the event. As I mentioned, Wynn's Kitchen was one. Cien Chiles was another. Cien Chiles was the runner-up. That sounds great. Yeah. Fantastic brand. A maker of chili sauces.

10:49They come in four varieties. The one I'm holding my hand is the Thai bird. Rich, bold, and fiery is how they describe it. The winner of the competition, a brand called Root and Splendor, which makes 100 % natural, non-toxic, and eco-friendly cleaning products and detergents. Is that a cardboard bottle? It is a cardboard bottle. Yeah, there you go. Take a look at it. Rationale, which is a fantastic non-alcoholic beer brand based in San Diego. Another brand called Brixie, which makes natural bars of shampoo, conditioner and a body wash. And then of course, I amaranth, which makes chips and other kinds of salty snacks based on the amaranth root, which, uh, you know, I, uh, I am embarrassed to say I didn't get a chance to try these.

11:34Do you want to try these? I like this. Yeah. I tried them. Those are super good. Yeah. They're tasty. I had the spicy variety and it was really good. And they, these are also, so they've taken, you've had lime Tostitos, right? And you just can't stop eating them because they're kind of like crack these these are a lime flavor and they're they're better for you so i handed mike the chips yeah i'm gonna hand john craven the choritos these are the habanero and himalayan salt what the hell's a chorito i'm sure it says it on the back of the package okay so it's it's like a little mini thing that looks like a churro jackie am i right from we're crazy yeah being in my neck of the woods being in san diego is really cool to see some of these brands that I might have even picked up in Whole Foods because they're just locally distributed right now.

12:21Cian Chili's being one of them. And they're in my fridge and seeing them on the stage meeting Maria, the founder. She's just an amazing personality, brings so much energy. It's really great to connect with the industry. I even met friends of friends, which was really cool. I met Sydney Chasen, founder and CEO of Chasen Dreams Farm, which is a friend of a friend in San Diego. So just connecting the dots and getting even more connected to the San Diego community. Absolutely. Meeting Maria of Cien Chiles was really an experience. She is just an amazing person, an incredible personality. She came up on stage, true story, and the first five seconds that she was on stage, she sang opera and it was beautiful opera.

13:05And she said that she sang it because it helps her, it helps relieve her nerves from being on stage and uh yeah i almost started crying because it was so good and then she celebrated quitting her nine to five so i mean another reason to cry another roar from the crowd that was that's sien chilies yeah nice yeah very cool stuff great stuff this um emerald these amaranth uh choritos whoa they're so spicy yeah it says on the back this these will blow your mind i mean blow your palette off too here. I like it. Truly an outstanding event. Thanks so much to the incredible leadership team at NSD at Naturally San Diego, Adam Hurdle, Jess Wendell, Ari Roz, Kirsten Riley, and so many more amazing people that do such great work for the CPG community in San Diego.

13:52If you are from San Diego and haven't joined as a member or haven't met these folks, I highly recommend you do. It is just an incredible organization. Now I went to San Diego and Mike went to New York city. And when Mike went to New York city, apparently he, um, he went crazy. I don't know about that. I did. I did go to a rave though. Yes. You went to an event put on by the fine folks at OMSOM. What was that all about? It was a launch of their Extra Saucy Noodles, which are extra saucy, and that's E-X-X-X-T-R-A saucy. And they put on a rave in Bushwick at a warehouse, and it was them. It was loud and proud.

14:39They had all these performances. They had shibari dancers, aerialists, pole dancers. There was an extraordinary drag performance during it. And the more I think about it, it's like Kim Pham is like the Trent Reznor of CPG and AumSam is kind of like Nine Inch Nails. They're just, they're doing their thing their way and hits with the people who it's supposed to hit with and everyone else is in awe. Kim gave this extraordinary speech and like, if you could read the IRL comments section, everybody was just like, oh my gosh, this is, this is exactly what we need to hear. And, and she's such a great speaker and so charismatic.

15:18And I was just, first of all, I was just touched to be invited. And it was a really fun time. Yeah. And the noodles are just, they're so good. You can have these Asian noodles in four minutes. And of course, it's like multicultural noodles, just like their sauces. And you just have to try these noodles. I don't want to overhype them, but I don't think you can. They're that good. Where'd you get the bucket at? I went, you were supposed to go loud and proud. So of course, I wore vintage Arsenal. I wore my JVC Lightning Ray. You like that one? Oh, I can see. I'm looking at the photo right now. Cool.

15:55And then my bruised banana bucket hat that is a bucket hat that my daughter made for me, which many people want to know where I got it. She was thrilled by that. Okay, well, we have about a thousand different products here on our respective tables. But we always start with everything that's here in the office in Newton and almost never start with Jackie in San Diego. which is a pulsating heart of innovation in America. So what do you got there, Jackie? I got something interesting for us. So I've talked about this kind of ingredient in the past, but it's kind of popping up more and more in social media.

16:30I know what this is. It's sea moss. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Nice and gooey. But yeah, so I found this sea moss at a farmer's market in Ocean Beach. They are selling online. It's called Samadhi Moss. And I'm just seeing just more functional ingredients added to the CMOS as well as some better branding. This one has Blue Magic included in it. So E3 Live Blue Magic. But if you look on TikTok, there's definitely some polarizing opinions about the functional ingredient. Some people say it literally cures all and it has a million functional qualities while others are like, beware. There's just not enough education about sourcing and the functional properties.

17:19But for now, I am trying it. This one does a really great job. Samadhi Moss on their social media, educating people about what to ask as far as questions with sourcing of CMOS and what you should be looking for in the ingredient, especially as people are stumbling upon it more and more but if you look at it if i don't know if you have any of you tried cmos not yet all right so if you look at consistency oh god so slimy very slimy very slimy but you can either go like one one a day this is where we're like movie nice knowing you, Jackie. And yeah, it just slides right down my throat. What's it taste like?

18:02This one, it tastes kind of earthy, like kind of seaweedy a little bit, minerally. It's not the tastiest, but there's other flavors that has a little bit of sweetener that helps with the taste if you want to take it straight up. It kind of looks like a scented candle. It does in the mesa jar. Yeah, sure it does. Do you take a spoonful every morning? I have been, yes. So I'm giving it a go. I want to try for myself to see if I see any benefits because there is just too much information. It's like functional ingredient overload. So I'm trying it myself. Hey, pull down your turtleneck a little bit.

18:35You got gills growing there? That's actually what happens when you eat sea moss. Aqua Jackie. You're just volunteering to be like a human Petri dish. I like this. Not enough research on your functional ingredient? Jackie will try it. It's perfect. Lab tested. And I have something to wash it down. Jeez. So I have Black and Bold Cold Brew Coffee. This is their latest flavor, sweet. And it says sweet, but when you look on the back, it actually has zero sugars and it's very low calorie, only 13 calories. And it's available in Target and on target.com. It uses allulose. So I know that's like popping up as a more popular sweetener.

19:18has a little bit like undetected aftertaste and things like that but it's pretty good i enjoy it it's just slightly sweet slightly sweet it's really good slightly slightly sweet is better than really really sweet especially i think not i mean for me anyway i'm speaking very much about me as you get older slightly sweet is definitely preferable to really sweet i got some really some slightly sweet here before we get into that mezcal it's uh let's just crack it oh okay good he did not spray it all over the microphone it got him it did go a little went up my nose but this is the new wise uh sparkling iced tea apple w-i-z-e is the name of the bra is how you spell the brand wise is a brand from canada like you know other cool brands that we know like uh oh i don't know midday squares and nuisance newbies things like that so uh wise is the sparkling iced tea that's only four grams of sugar and the apple just is it's really appley it's nice yeah i like it good i could drink this all day yeah he's holding up my mezcal sampling well the last time mike opened up a can of something by his microphone he did spray it all over that microphone i still don't know if we had to replace that one yeah ray almost opened up a can of whoop ass it was actually nate who's our studio director and minister of photographic arts who's not so pleased about that but uh yeah it was a can of little saints and the groney spritz and I have now in my hand Little Saints' new mezcal.

20:53Get that in my belly. It's called Saint Mezcal. It's a non-alcoholic spirit infused with Palo Santo and lion's mane. Is Palo Santo a mushroom, Jackie? What is that? No, it's a wood. Wood, yeah. Oh, it's a wood. Interesting. Yeah, usually people burn it like incense. Yeah, it's like cleansing. There was a dogfish head. Still is. It's like motor oil. Okay. It comes in this 750-milliliter clear bottle. It's a beautiful-looking bottle. It very much looks like a Spirit or Mezcal. It does say best served over ice, but we're going to take shots of this. And I actually have in my hand batch number one, bottle number 19.

21:31All right. Wow. John, if you'd said that it was Little Saints, I might have gone a little faster. I apologize. Oh, okay. I won't forgive you. Don't worry. Well, yeah, I teased this when we had the Negroni Spritz on the show, but we're going to open this up right now. Pizza and Mezcal. Where are we? Pizza and Mezcal. I've got my... Oh, it's a Shire City. Yes. Pour one out for Shire City. I know. RIP. Oh, God. Oh, Jesus. Spilled it all over John. Sorry. Pizza juice. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Mezcal. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so Mike has a shot glass. All right, this is... I'm drinking out of an old man mug.

22:10Okay, so it smells... Herbally. Herbly? Get some smoke? Yeah, there's some smoke and some herbs. It's not unlike mezcal in the nose. Okay. That's great. I'm really enjoying that. Does it have a bite? It does have a bite. It's got a little bite. I mean, this stuff is great. I think it's, oh. They always, I mean, it's a really original flavor. Like, I would not by itself get this as a mezcal replacement, but it's, like the smokiness to it, the rest of it, no. It's got the smokiness and a little agave flavor that you get in mezcal. It's not. Yeah, but there's another flavor to it. It's peppermint.

22:48What is it? Capsaicum. Peppermint. It's got like a peppermint aftertaste to it. So it's got, yeah, I mean, there's a nice like burn to it from that, obviously. So it's got monk fruit, which I think is the flavor that you're getting, Mike, but it also has capsaicum. Just reading from a note from the folks at Little Saints, they said it was really important to the company. Are you just saying capsaicum over and over because it's your only$10 word? that St. Mezcal gives the burn and bite of alcohol to make the experience the most similar to drinking alcohol in terms of the way it hits your tongue and throat.

23:17They achieve this bite and burn by using capsaicin flavor derived from hot peppers. Gotcha. Interesting. That makes sense. That is a pretty interesting burn that they've made there. I like that. It's a nice burn. It's not unlike alcohol, but it also lingers a lot longer than alcohol. It's still lingering. It's like eating spicy food. They also said this is the only spirit producer, or alcoholic or non-alcoholic using a pure Palo Santo extract as an ingredient, which is also kind of interesting. Can I have some more of this? I'm just going to chug from the bottle. I dare say this is innovative.

23:49Oh, it's definitely innovative. Oh, definitely. Never seen anything like that. You've got to taste this, Jackie. Yeah. It's really good. I mean, you know, the second sip is even better than the first because I feel like your palate already has some of the buildup from the Mezcal already on there. I do love Mezcal. I love Palo Santo. All these words are calling to me. These are good words. Now to pair with the spice from Little Saints, Mezcal or Saint Mezcal, maybe we could have some of this Chusa that I brought back from San Diego. Generously donated to the cause by Daniel Schwartz, who is the founder and CEO of Chusa and a loyal listener of Taste Radio.

24:30Daniel is an awesome dude and a great founder who makes a killer product. I gave John the spicy pineapple Mike do you want the spicy so tasty this also I love this stuff by the way makes a really great cocktail garnish oh yeah we should have used that with the same as maybe we will maybe we'll have that at lunch with our pizza and our our oil pizza and oil and if you don't like that brought this new Cheech and Chung's oh god I mean I gave you a pause for that reaction I guess so this is a this is a cannabis product i mean did anyone guess that or what yeah i all knew that name you can just see from the can yeah this is one of the uh one of these delta 9 cannabis products so it's cheech and chong put their name on delta 9 interesting well you know they want the unregulated i guess selling uh minnesota thing that everyone's going for right now i have not tried this but yeah i figured you know we should show the the cheech and chongs there's a couple different flavors of these.

25:35Oh God, I feel like I'm going to be the lab rat because Jackie's in San Diego. No. I know. I can't take one for the team for you. We can probably get some sent to you too. Don't worry. It's a cool looking can for sure. It does not look like a cannabis beverage. That's the only concerning concern. I mean, it says Cheech and Chung on it. I mean, I guess if you're like - I guess if people don't know though. I don't know. Isn't that still sort of a cannabis joke though no but i mean it doesn't have that uh that sort of sort of safety what do they call those like this yeah that's all that's all the delta nine products are like that it doesn't have the safety tab correct is that okay that's how they're sold they also don't have the like you know cannabis warning thing on it this is this this is a this is a crazy rabbit hole that we maybe shouldn't go down right now okay that's probably a good idea yeah that other one that we We had - Yeah, that doesn't have the cat.

26:29Do you guys remember that Louie Louie one that was at the Snackshot thing? Same deal. There's a ton of these coming out. Did I drink the Louie Louie one? No, I didn't. It was at Snackshot? Yeah. Yeah. That would be epic if you drank it. I'd like to see that. I don't think that's such a good idea. You didn't drink it. I drank it at Snackshot. It was good. Louie Louie was great. Yeah, it was like a really nice mellow high. Tasted good. What do you got there, Ray? Now we're about to eat lunch, so I don't know if you guys want to down these right now. I definitely want to have a brownie bar before lunch.

27:01Let's do it. This is, it's relatively new from Nature's Bakery. It's their new double chocolate brownie made with whole grains, dates, and cocoa. Yeah. I'll hand one to Mr. Craven. I mean, I really like their fruit-filled bars. Thank you, sir. Yes. Filled with chocolate? Yes. More brownie? It's a really tasty brownie. It's very moist. I've already had some of these. Dairy-free, nut-free, soft-baked. whole grains, dates, and cocoa. Nice. Yeah, but it actually, so I love when Better For You brands come out with a brownie that actually tastes like a brownie versus those that are like, oh yeah, it's a brownie and it's really dry and it tastes like, I don't know, coconut oil and some kind of weird sweetener.

27:41I mean, because a brownie this size for 170 calories is pretty hard to achieve. Let's see. This also has, you know, those like old school, like where they like Little Debbie brownies? Yes. It has like the same consistency and flavor as that, but it's actually made with real ingredients. Totally. It feels like a throwback kind of brownie from when you grew up, but it's clearly better for you. It does. It is given Little Debbie vibes. It's better. It tastes better though. Little Debbie always had that weird sort of twist at the end. I hated. Chemicals? The chemicals. The old twist. That's how they get you.

28:18I hated their chocolate coverings and the white chocolate coverings. Little Debbie. I don't have good memories of little Debbie. I don't know. You were probably a kid who liked Tootsie Rolls. No way, bro. Oh, my God. Shots fired. Shots fired. Sorry. Shots fired. I mentioned Wynn's Kitchen earlier in the show. They were a finalist in the Natural San Diego Pitch Slam. I didn't really talk to you too much about the two products that they have. They have a satay, which is an Asian chili sauce, and they have a peanut sauce. We actually featured Wynn's Kitchen in a previous episode of Elevator Talk with, of course, Wynn Austin.

28:56Mike, I'm going to hand you the satay. Yes, please. You can read all about it. I have the peanut sauce in my hand. Just by holding their products, are you winning? I am winning. And Wynn's Kitchen did win the audience vote. Well done. And$1 ,000 in cash from Naturally San Diego. Are there fans called winners? Ooh, I like that. And it's spelled W-Y-N-N. Wynn's Kitchen, I should have pointed that out. Yes, like the casino. yeah really tasty stuff i also love that she just really focuses on quality ingredients and simplicity and keeping everything clean this looks like the sriracha garlic sauce so so good i i want to try this maybe i'll have some with lunch if that's okay ray stolen like what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine or actually i I don't know.