Did Big Food Really Need RFK Jr.'s Nudge? Fancy, Foodie FTW.

0:10Hello, friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, John Craven and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we sit down with Maura Duggan, the founder and CEO of Fancy Pants Baking Company, a brand known for its all-natural cookies that blend indulgence with sustainability. We also meet up with Allison Elliott, the founder and CEO of Farmer Foodie, which markets a plant-based Parmesan designed to deliver both purpose and flavor.

0:47I was so sad that you didn't say Jackie's name, but then you said Fancy Pants and Farmer Foodie, and that just changed my whole outlook. Well, Jackie's taking some much-deserved time off after an epic BevNet Live in New York City, where we met up with about 800 other amazing people, professionals, operators, founders, investors, retailers, distributors in the beverage industry. Speaking of professionals, Ray, thanks for everything you did there. Just, I mean, you're once again, we're amazing at Bev Now Life. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. It's really fun to be at these events and incorporate the energy you feel into the performance, I'll call it, on stage.

1:30Because it's not easy to prepare for these things. It's, you know, it's a lot of time. It's a lot of effort. It's a lot of focus, trying to make sure that we're delivering the best content, the best product that we possibly can. And so I think our team really feeds off that energy, feeds off that excitement, and it gives us an opportunity to really put our best foot forward. I mean, between you and Jeff and Farron and Marty and Brad, I mean, it was just a really, really well-hosted show. So thanks so much for doing that. Yeah, and I know our entire BevNet team listens to Taste Radio religiously, so I'll just shout out to our amazing events team, our AV team, operations, editorial, marketing, sales.

2:10Everyone just deserves a ton of applause and credit for what they brought to the table. The energy in the room was palpable. Once you walked in, that's the right word. You could touch it, right? You walked in. You could feel the energy. As soon as you walked in the room, there were companies of all shapes and sizes there. We had, you know, small brands who hadn't launched yet. We had Holy Pop. We had Liquid Death. We had Refresco was there. I mean, one of the largest co-packers in the world. It was just the conversation started on stage. They were nonstop. In fact, some of them continued while the content was happening.

2:43People just were getting business done. It's a long, long way away from my first BevNet Live in New York City in June of 2011 at the Sheraton Hotel in Midtown. And John, I'm sure you're proud of the work that the team has done. And I mean, just as someone who works for the company, but also an observer of what we've seen in the beverage industry and how it's evolved, it's pretty amazing just to see where BevNet Live was and where it is today. Yeah, I mean, it's come a long way, which obviously, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say that just to like pat ourselves on the back. But I think, you know, the strength of this community and the strength of this industry is like stronger than ever, which is always awesome to see when we get together twice a year for BevNet Lives.

3:26And I got to shout out also the ability for founders to identify these places where they can excel, where consumers are looking for new and innovative concepts, new ways to improve on existing categories, because we saw a lot of that in the coolers. We saw a lot of that in terms of introductions to us from founders at the event on stage during the New Beverage Showdown. It just seems like founders are really doing their best to deliver on what consumer demand is at this moment. And the room block for winter is now open, Ray, in case you want to get your ticket. Yeah, BevNet Live winter 2025. For us, it's right around the corner.

4:13Even though it's a few months away we start planning for these things where is it right it's in marina del rey at the marina del rey marriott which we'll just call los angeles yeah i mean it's all la it's nice and close to lax yes that's also far enough away that you're kind of away from the riffraff yes one little beach life you can get some it's a stone's are away life come on yeah we're in a life the stones are away from santa monica manhattan beach if you know venice exactly so so juista juista shay j yeah jay so but don't forget juista i'm telling you right now i won't here's a uh a standing invitation to anyone who's planning to be at bevnet live in marina del rey to have a drink with the team and perhaps i'll put it on my credit card because i know john's looking at john's got he's burning a hole into my head with his eyes right now my credit card it's on my dime i'm like when and where ray i'm in okay let's get that top shelf liquor yeah At Shea Jay in Santa Monica.

5:10They have a mean, allagash white there. It's a different kind of allagash white than anywhere else? No, it's a mean one. It's fresh. It's fresher. Okay. I was going to say they make a mean Manhattan. The grizzled old veteran who's been behind the bar for years. My goodness, that guy could make a Manhattan in his sleep and it would still be the best one in California. All right. So I have this in my notes. I probably shouldn't say this. Do people still use Pinterest? I don't know. I've in my whole life never used Pinterest. Pinterest is not for you, Ray. I mean, you're not. Who's it for? It's for somebody who's expressing something that they want to be, or they use it for project mood boards.

5:44So you'll get, you know, you'll grab a bunch of photos, put them together and say, this is the vibe that I'm going for. Interior design sort of stuff. Interior design. But we also see like beverage founders using it to try to figure out and food founders to figure out what their brand's going to be like. And I think it's one of those things that it expresses your intent to do something. Okay. Demographically, who uses it? Well, Gen X millennials. Gen X millennials. I asked this question before we hopped on the mics and our Minister of Photographic Arts, Nate Brescia, said that millennials typically use Pinterest.

6:14But I thought - That's because nothing can survive on just Gen X. It's too small. Okay. I thought this was for an older demographic. I thought Pinterest was a little bit more of the - I mean, older than like Snapchat, sure. Okay. Yes. Older than the old Snapchat. Anyway, I bring this up because Pinterest announced that it has debuted its first ever co-branded product with Chamberlain Coffee. Chamberlain Coffee, as most people know, is a coffee company that was founded by social media star, YouTube star, Emma Chamberlain. So their sea salt toffee flavored blend is now available in ground or whole bean for about 24 bucks on Pinterest and direct from Chamberlain Coffee, assuming that means chamberlaincoffee.com.

7:0024 bucks? Yes, it's a ground or whole bean coffee. What is it? Is it a 12-ounce pack? 16-ounce pack? That seems a little pricey. For flavored coffee? For flavored coffee, maybe, but if it's premium. But do you wrecked it with flavor? No offense? Yeah, right? I don't know. Well, according to the press release, this collaboration underscores how the social media platform is purposefully building ties to the industry through influential personalities like Emma Chamberlain. Actually, let me clarify. That line was written by our very own Marty Caballero, as I'm reading from his story, which was published on June 17th.

7:39I mean, I got to say, I guess, you know, Amber Chamberlain, you know, not a bad person to align with. But I am curious as to whether this is actually going to move the needle or this is sort of just testing the waters for Pinterest. Sounds like testing the waters, maybe getting a little jealous of TikTok shop or something. She's not the first one to have a flavored, you know, to go out there with flavored coffee either. I mean, top of the morning. Well, I'm just saying the only influencer who's selling flavored coffee. Top of the morning is like all in on flavored coffee right now, too. I don't know.

8:08I'm starting off from someone who is completely disconnected, really has no connection at all to Pinterest. So for me to even, I guess. You still call it the Facebook. He likes a nice laser disc. For me to even scrutinize this is probably the wrong thing to do. But I don't know. Sometimes I get a little annoyed by some of the marketing that I see. Some brand should send you a mood board or two so you can see how this stuff works. Because it's really cool what they do on Pinterest. Well, clearly Pinterest is trying to get people to buy products directly from the site. In this press release or in the announcements, their VP of product management said, this partnership transforms discovery into purchase in just a few clicks.

8:45Why not one click like Amazon? But anyway, but it bridges the gap between inspiration and action for millions of Pinterest users. So, yeah, I hope this goes well. I mean, it should be interesting to see if this actually works out. And maybe Pinterest will become a destination for purchasing as much as it is for mood board activities. Well, maybe a kind brand or two will send you their mood board at ask at tasteradio.com. Okay. I'd happily accept that. Me too. Yeah. All right. How many years have I been standing on my soapbox about artificial flavors, colors, all that nonsense? How long have you been alive?

9:19Probably six weeks. I've been alive. It's definitely not been six weeks. I can go back. It's been a while. I can search on tasteradio.com all the times Ray's gone on a rant. I mean, as long as I've known you, you've been on that soapbox. Okay. Well, so anyway, I mentioned this because it was announced today, according to the New York Times, that Kraft Heinz is planning to eliminate all chemical dyes over the next two years. Now, this comes after the Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. You might know him better as RFK. that's that's his dad that is his dad you're right rfk jr excuse me i should say yes geez you're right on top of that john thank you i mean i'm just gonna call you out when i can right i think people call him rfk these days anyway his dad isn't no rfk jr i don't know okay anyway in april rfk jr said he had reached an understanding quote-unquote understanding with food manufacturers to remove commonly used artificial food dyes from their products by 2026.

10:16So yeah, I mean, I think this is a good thing. I don't know necessarily, you know, I'm not going to comment on all of Maha and all this other stuff. I just wish it didn't take someone standing on his platform, you know, I wish it didn't take the government to take action for food companies to do this. I would have hoped that food companies had on their own considered these options and done these things. I mean, didn't they say they're getting rid of the artificial coloring and Kool-Aid? Yes. That's like, what's even the point of Kool-Aid anymore? Well, a spokeswoman from Kraft Heinz confirmed it would affect brands like Kool-Aid, Jell-O, Crystal Light, and other beverages and desserts that contain dyes like red number 40 and blue number one.

10:56Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that - How do you find the flavor? No blue Jell-O anymore? What are you going to do? When you go to your picnic and wherever it is, and they put the Jell-O out, they're going to have to label it now. It's going to be all clear Jell-O. I just think that if you're eating anything that looks neon, yellow, orange, green, purple, whatever it is, it's probably not a good thing for you. And, you know, I'm going to stand on my ground. I'm going to stand my ground here and just say I think this is something that consumers have wanted for some time. I think there has been consumer demand for clean ingredient products, whether they be from legacy brands or otherwise, for a long time.

11:30And I'm taking issue with the fact that Kraft Heinz had waited until the government stepped in to say something. I just feel like it was incumbent upon them to do something better for consumers and just for Americans in general. I agree with you. I think the place where you're in, everything you're saying is true. I think you might be overestimating the number of consumers. That's all. Yeah, I think some faction of consumers care about this and some faction of the products they consume. Yeah. Well, okay. And this is also from the New York Times article. But Kraft, which quietly and successfully removed artificial colors from its popular bright orange macaroni and cheese product in 2016 by switching to turmeric and paprika, said it would not introduce any new products using synthetic dyes effective immediately.

12:16So, okay, to Kraft's credit, they already did do something better for consumers via its mac and cheese. I think, you know, with Jell-O and other stuff, yes, maybe it's a little bit more difficult. But if you knew that you wanted to do it for Kraft macaroni and cheese, and you knew that it was probably better for consumers to do it, why didn't you do it for your other products? Because now Kraft macaroni and cheese is more of a loss leader for them. It's less margin because it's more expensive to put to them in. A loss layer implies they're losing money on it, which I'm sure they're not. But either way, I think it's like some of the products you're talking about, which are just by virtue, indulgence, almost like candy dessert products, I think there's probably been less of a priority there.

13:01No one's looking at Jell-O going, wow, I want it to be more healthy. More healthy is just like don't freaking eat that. No, John's right. Or don't drink Kool-Aid. They nuked their margins. Yeah, not healthy. but okay if they already examine the opportunity to remove artificial colors from craft mac and shoes yes okay so why aren't you examining they did it probably just doesn't apply to every category it's really the point i'm trying to make also that's pretty iconic you dial down the marketing a little bit and there you go i'm just being a rabble rouser i know you're just rabble i'm just rabble but you they have a few a few few dollars for marketing i hear you i hear you john's right i mean like that's a flagship product it's what they're known for let's be honest look i'd be surprised and no stain on jello but i'd be surprised if kids 20 years from now are like oh jello i need that in my life or like that is the dessert that i want to be like old people food at this point it is a bit of an old person brand i don't really want to eat you know horse hoops or is there a better for you jello out there like a brand out there that's doing better for probably puffy jello i think it's just like there's private label like if you go to whole foods you can probably find you know gelatin desserts and stuff but it's still gelatin though what's wrong with gelatin it's got collagen it's good for you analyze it later okay it's got collagen i didn't know that jello was a good source of protein raise more of a panna cotta guy also a gelatin dessert but anyway ambrosia i like how you just snuck in your knowledge of food there knowledge of food desserts you're like panna cotta yeah so for folks out there who want to know more about italian desserts or otherwise contact john craven j craven that's a quality jello dessert That I'll never eat again.

14:32All right. Let's move on to new products. Okay, so. I got one that just launched today. Okay, well, who wants to go first? I've got one right here. Okay. While you're pulling that one up, John. Remember our great meetup in Austin? Yes, at Torchy's Tacos. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the founders of Berski showed up. Berski. How do you spell Berski? B-E-R-S-K-I. Okay. Which are a new brand of beef sticks that are made with beef liver and beef heart. 25 % beef liver, 25 % beef heart, clean ingredients. And there are two varieties, salt and pepper. Salted and salt and pepper. Okay. You going in? I don't know.

15:06What are we having for lunch today? Have you tasted this yet? What are we having for lunch? Yeah. I have no idea. I'm not in charge of it. If we're having like steak, and I know we're not having steak. Surf and turf, right. I think you should just taste it. We're all going to Outback after this. Yum. This looks really nice. The label for their salt and pepper is this grayish black with Burski written in large font vertically on the front of pack. It says eight grams of protein, and it very clearly outlines, as Mike mentioned, it's an ancestral blend made with 25 % beef liver and 5 % beef heart.

15:37When I was a kid, my mom used to gag me with beef liver. Like, I could not eat liver, and so I was pretty scared to try this, but it's really tasty. Were you supposed to say such things on the podcast in public? I don't like liver, Mom. No, I don't want to eat that liver. I'm going to go in here on this salt and pepper variety. Okay. What? No, I was just saying, I'm not indulging. You're not a... John's never a meat stick guy, so I'd never try to push him on you. So you know how I love when you actually see the ingredients in processed food. I feel like I can actually see part of a beef heart in this thing.

16:09Jeez. Why? What do you think? Great texture. Super M-word. You see a cow smiling at you? Oh, Jesus. Now I can't finish this. No, but it's... I can. It's really... What's the... Not barnyard-y, but like what's the... what's the term i'm looking for earthy gamey i think it's earthy it's a little gamey i mean you can definitely taste the liver and the and the heart but it tastes good no it's a fresh cut grass fresh can of tennis balls i don't know are we in like wine uh notes now no i will say that this is it would taste good with a nice glass cab though this is this is not for everyone but it is for someone who really loves the ancestral style of beef sticks like when country archer came out with theirs or now it's called archer yep it was less earthy than this this is pretty this is for a serious uh ancestral i think beef stick consumer like for the liver king it's for the liver king yeah again i think if you if you know the benefit the health benefits of liver and heart and you don't like the taste of liver then you're really gonna like this it's good no it's good but yes i think some people might be surprised by the texture and the fact that it is it's still a meat stick and and as we've just seen where john was like you know the heisman no meat sticks aren't for everyone the heisman i love a meat stick so they're not for everyone and these are just really tasty i think well done bersky great to see at the austin events and anytime you're in the boston area and this this this invitation goes out to anyone who's listening happen to be in the boston area please let us know we love to have visitors shout out to christian kareem khalil who came and visited us.

17:49He's the founder and CEO of a brand called Yaza, which is a maker of Lebanese style Lebne. And he came and visited us about three weeks ago. And it was amazing. Everyone got to see him and we got to talk and he got to have conversations with a whole bunch of different people on the team. We love that. So if you're in the Boston area, I can't say this any more times than I've already said it. Please let us know. Please come to our office. We want to see you. We're only like 20 minutes from the airport too. It's close. Barely. It's close. Barely. Yeah. Thanks for visiting. And we'll give you good recommendations for restaurants and places to visit.

18:21Biki Latte. Yeah, some of the places you should avoid, as in tourist traps, things like that. You can come in and sample. I mean, we've got so many samples here. People are always, ooh, am I allowed to take the samples? Yeah. You can be a one-person trade show, a one-brand trade show here at BevNet headquarters. Come in and try everything. Exactly. All right. John, as often on the podcast, he's chomping at the bit to talk about some products that he is happy about. happy about well i mean they're they're new they're kind of cool okay so you haven't tried these yet so you might be disappointed well i'm not going to be disappointed jeez hold on now i mean it's excited about these products first of all disappointed if you're listening to this they're new olive oils from brightland who has been known for making kind of premium high-end almost like gifting quality olive oils vinegars i think they make honey as well and they're now launching like an everyday line which has a cooking oil and a salad oil in a custom plastic bottle i mean i don't know if it'll dust up some uh drama like last time brightland launched plastic bottle olive oil but this is like a design to be more like you know lower price i think these are 750 mil bottles launching direct to consumer i think today june 17th when we're recording and going into retail in August.

19:42So pretty exciting stuff. Big fan of this brand. Use occasions right on the front of pack there. Cooking and salad oil. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I think the salad oil thing, it might sound dumb, but it's like, you know, for a lot of the olive oils that we get that are kind of like cooking, drizzle, or some, you know, blend, it's like I don't know what to do with them anymore. It's like just tell me what to do with it. I mean, it's smart. Obviously drizzle, but I don't know. I'm not drizzling olive oil that much in my day-to-day life, unlike Ray. but i just just some olive oil just just right now all over my laptop all over your laptop so i don't know pretty cool launch for them nice looking bottle like the the white they got cooking salad they just need snacking oil no but the best part about that is it's extremely clear what the use case is yeah i mean look graza has like a pretty iconic like you know aesthetic that they own and they've got some like copycats that are kind of doing that too but this is very much like almost i mean it's a very visually you know contrasting look to graza but um yeah i mean i think compared to the rest of the olive oil set where you're still like i don't know maybe it's greek italian they're trying to sell you on like origin and this stuff is it's from california maybe a smart timely way to get around certain tariffs and stuff too if that's still a thing and the innovation is that they're telling you the use case like front of back now Now, why did you get these?

21:04Well, I was outside of your house this morning intercepting your packages. You see that? You just admitted that you're a mail thief and I think the post office. Proper term is a porch pirate. What do they call it? Post office cops? I don't know what the term is, but anyway, they're going to come for you. Yeah, the post office cops are coming for you. I think they do have police, postal inspectors. Yeah, they do. Do they carry guns if you use the wrong stamp? I don't know. Wow. Since I'm on a roll here, one more. This is a product called Mariona. These folks were at our New York City meetup. When was that?

21:36Was it April? Or was that May? I don't even know if I was track. It was April. April. And this product, it looks like a bottle of wine. There's three varieties, but it's actually a Delta 9 THC beverage that sort of is designed to mimic the experience of wine all the way down to the bottle. These are really nice products. I think it's cool just to see this rapidly evolving category kind of expanding into a new package format that feels certainly like it's, again, going for a different use occasion than all of the products that are in, you know, most of them feel like they're in the 12-ounce sleek can right now.

22:17I mean, I like the fact that this product very much looks like a wine, but never calls itself a wine. I think the potential for some confusion, however, might be there, even though they don't call themselves a wine. It's very much in a wine bottle. It looks like a modern, the label definitely looks sleek and trendy. And certainly, you know, the big question with any THC beverage these days is what does the future hold for regulatory? Just in the past few days, I read the news that California is potentially going to ban any consumables that contain THC. Certainly, there's some questions about the Texas market, too.

23:00Right there, you have two of the three biggest states in the country that may limit or completely prohibit THC products or the sale of them. So many good products, reasonably safe. I mean, that's such a shame. All consumables? I mean, it sounds like it. Yeah. So. What a nasty setback for the industry. Yeah. Well, I mean, it seems like there was a lot of momentum and now that momentum has hit the wall. The momentum's still there. It's just elsewhere. You know, I think if you talk to the brands that are out there, they're just focusing in different places. And I think that part of it's pretty interesting too.

23:35And that there's, you know, momentum in parts of the country that, you know, certainly we're not talking about Minnesota a lot. Minnesota, right. The Cannabis Kings. or certain other regions that also have developed pretty good markets for these things. And I think otherwise, they're just kind of untapped for emerging CPG. They're kind of generally places that brands go to play when they're much bigger, much more mainstream. Part of the reason I brought this up is because our colleague, Lucas Southerd, wrote a story about a week ago about Breeze, B-R-E-Z, which is one of the fastest growing THC brands out there.

24:12and they have introduced or they're introducing a new non-infused variety of their product and the founder of Breeze noted that quote it's hard to build with THC so and we did see this with Cannes as well I remember when Cannes was only focused on their cannabis products and then they introduced a line of non-alcoholic cocktails and yeah so it definitely seems like there are a lot of questions among THC brand founders about the road ahead. And I think they're just trying to cover all their bases. Yeah, it's interesting. Little Saints went down that path too, but theirs wasn't THC, but they had CBD and they backed off CBG and went into mushrooms.

24:53Well, if you want to read that article that our dear colleague Lucas wrote, head to bevnet.com. But of course, you got to be an insider. So easy way to do that, bevnet.com slash insider, nosh.com slash insider, or, of course, tasteradio.com slash insider. Mike, you got one more product. Last word here? Well, I've got Moshi sparkling water in front of me here, Ray, which is a line of Asian sparkling water with juice. You've got Asian pear and ginger, white peach yuzu, honeydew melon and cream, and this one is their new lychee vanilla. Very cool. Everyone loves lychee. It's lychee, right? Lychee or lychee.

25:28You can say it either way. I don't say lychee. I say lychee usually, but I'll say it either way. Just like I say, sometimes I say data, and then on Thursdays I say data. We're going to end the banter at least with one brand name that I'm going to take issue with the way you pronounce. It's Olipop. What about, why aren't you taking issue with the way that I say kiff? That's, yeah, yeah. Rewatch the New Beverage Showdown, folks, and you'll know exactly what he's talking about. It's not Olipop. You always say Olipop. I like Olipop. It's Olipop, right, John? Sure, bro. Bro, it's Teva Teva, just wear the damn sandals.

26:05Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit Taseradio.com slash Insider to learn more. All right, it's time to dive into our featured interviews for this episode. We're speaking with Mara Duggan of Fancy Pants Baking Company and Allison Elliott, a farmer foodie, two entrepreneurs who've built standout, trend-forward brands from humble beginnings. Mara transformed her small apartment cookie operation into a nationally distributed snack company known for its nut-free, ultra-crunchy cookies.

26:45Meanwhile, Allison evolved her food blog into a shelf-stable, dairy-free Parmesan brand made from cashews, earning plaudits for its clean ingredients and crave-worthy flavor. In the following conversations, Maura and Allison open up about their early hurdles, the power of branding, and how innovation helped them carve out a niche and scale with purpose.

27:11Hey, folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I'm honored to be sitting down with Maura Duggan, who is the founder and CEO of Fancy Pants Baking Company. Maura, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, we're a bit of fans, I would say. Fiends is more like it at the Bednet office for Fancy Pants Baking Company. We love your products. Oh, thank you so much. They're my favorite kind of people. Yeah, well, all I can tell you is that every time the bags come into the office, they are gone in 60 seconds, either because someone's grabbing them and hoarding them or someone just ate an entire bag on their own.

27:46That's great. I love that. Yeah, we're here in Providence for the Naturally New England, Naturally Rising Pitch Competition. And we were just chatting before we hopped on the mics about how professional and polished these presentations are. And, you know, how far founders have come in being able to not only amplify what they're doing, but do it in a really concise and professional way. Yes, absolutely. I was really impressed. It was a great crew and just the amount of, you know, time and effort. You could tell that everybody put into what they were saying, but they really know their background and their facts and their audience.

28:24And they they're able to explain it to people in a, you know, easily and approachable way. Yeah, it was it was really fun. Do you think you could have been up on stage in 2004 when you started the company? Oh, I don't know. I think it's probably not my strength. So I'm happy to be in the audience and to cheer people on. Yeah, well, I mean, nevertheless, you have a great brand. You have a great company. As I mentioned, you started out in 2004. Yes. The brand, the CPG brand, the consumer brand launched in 2024. Yes. So what were you doing for the first 20 years? Yes. Still baking cookies. So many cookies.