Don't Go To Expo West.* Why Are 'Leisure' Drinks Growing?

0:10Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we're joined by Trevor Burns, the head of sales for Leisure Hydration, an emerging brand of better-for-you electrolyte drinks that is making waves in Southern California. Remember when we were first introduced to Leisure Hydration? It was called Leisure Project. Leisure Project, yes. Yeah. Yeah, it came out of project mode.

0:49Its drinks were described as hydrating wellness aids. So I think they made a good decision by calling it leisure hydration. Probably. Yeah, probably. I call it Chase Sapphire Lounge hydration. It isn't Chase Sapphire Lounge, leisure hydration. It's in all of them across the country. This is something Trevor and I talk about in the interview. Stay tuned for that. Well, before we go any further, I want to ask you all a simple question. How much do you think Harrison Ford is worth? I looked this up actually I'll take things that people never think about For a hundred right Well now was a chance to think about it Because I asked the question I'm going to guess 50 million 50 more 5 billion 10 billion Mike is closest So I looked at According to the internet And the internet is always right Yep 300 million Wow He had his own aircraft hangar In Southern California I forget exactly where it is You guys watch Shrinking?

1:39What? Incredible show Oh I know Oh that is actually really good show You gotta watch Trinky. Yeah. Listeners, thank me later. Okay. Yeah. Trinky. So I asked because our dear hero, also known as Han Jones or Indiana Solo. Is that what it is? Okay. Oh, boy. He's also the Red Hulk or he's the president, but he's going to be Red Hulk in the new Captain America movie. He was recently named as the new face of Glenn Marenghi. Now, Glenn Marenghi is a single malt scotch brand. Sure. and uh he's in a series of new videos he's wearing a kilt and i'm wondering harrison for 300 million he's you know han jones indiana solo like what does he need this money for why is he doing this and is it really going to like make a difference is it going to move the needle for folks i thought they're trying to go younger with this stuff no i mean it's the whiskey and scotch playbook right like old white guy as your spokesperson as your as your i mean they were probably like we need Someone that's like recognizable, but not like the rock recognizable where they need like an insane amount of money to do it.

2:47Fair enough. But I'm still Harrison Ford fits nicely. Well, why not? Harrison Ford, Nick Offerman. Who cares? Don't crap on the guy making an honest. I'm just trying to say like a guy. Okay. Plug in scotch. Whatever. Think about like a guy like Timothee Chalamet, right? Timothee Chalamet. You know, he's young. He's hip. He's happening. But do you think of whiskey when you think of him? Probably not. That would be weird. Yeah. It would at least get more younger consumers interested and aware of the brand. No. Maybe that's just not what they're trying to do. Whiskey still is kind of like your grandpa's drink or your dad's drink.

3:17And that's how you get into it. You're proving my point, Mike. I know, but that's how you get into it through your dad or through someone who's like your dad. Like Harrison Ford? Or Nick Offerman. Well, Nick, Harrison Ford's like your grandpa. Jeez. I think. He is kind of old, yeah. Yeah, he's up there. And he's like friendly. He has a friendly face. He's kind of like funny. Some of the videos I saw with him in a kilt, he's not taking it too seriously either, which whiskey can be taken too seriously. So I think maybe they're trying to just have some fun with it. Okay, fair enough. Great actor, pervasive face.

3:48I mean, why wouldn't you? Han Jones, he's the man. Oh my God. Stop. You seem really offended by that. Are you a big fan of Ferris and Ford or something? Kind of, yeah. Okay, geez. Did you wear the leather jacket and the fedora and the whip and all that stuff when you were a kid? I mean, I named my son Harrison, so he must be okay, right? If someone stinks, you can't use their name. Harry's full name is Harrison. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. How about that? Okay. He must be okay, right? I mean, you can't be like, oh, I don't like Harrison Ford, and then name your son Harrison. Does Harry wear a kilt?

4:26He would. I feel like he would, yeah. Yeah, he'd rock that thing. Chill dude. Absolutely. Leather jacket, guitar, kilt. Well, anyway. Nova Hellfire for the win. I hope that Harrison's getting well compensated for this because, you know, as you mentioned, he's a good guy. Glenn Maringi, I'm going to drink your brand or drink your products no matter what, no matter who your spokesperson is. So, all right. On to more pressing business. I'm going to get really controversial here. And I mean really controversial. I'm going to be ridiculed, ostracized, and persecuted for centuries kind of controversial here.

5:01Just say the thing and then subject yourself to it. No. Why do you have to set it up like that? Because this is a monumental moment on Taste Radio. Oh, my God. I am going to get canceled. What are you going to do? Say people shouldn't go to Expo West? I'm going to say exactly that, Mike. I'm going to say this. Here it is. Here we go. Do not go to Expo West. Canceled. Gosh darn it. Look at this. I just got the email from New Hope. They have rescinded my press pass of the show. So we haven't published this yet. Now, I want to explain, offer some context, because that's a pretty... That you're literally insane?

5:39That's a pretty big and obnoxious thing to say, yes. Very big, very obnoxious. Unpopular opinion. Don't go to Expo West. When I say don't go to Expo West, I mean don't go to Expo West for a handful of reasons. And for folks who are on the fence and any of these reasons apply to these folks, maybe consider different... All right, let's hear them, Ray. I'm going to shoot them down one by one. All right. Hold on. Let's hear all of them first, and then you can argue. I don't know. I'd rather just attack them one by one. Okay. All right. Yeah. Don't go to Expo West. If you're the founder of an early-stage brand and barely have two nickels to rub together, expecting that Whole Foods and Target are going to be enamored, so enamored with your idea that they offer you national distribution on the spot, that does not happen.

6:22This is really, yeah. That does not happen. It doesn't happen. It's true. But you should still go to Expo West if you're an early-stage founder just to see what's out there and meet people and ask hard questions. You know, it's a great place to go to see how the industry works. Yeah. I just feel like it's a matter of setting expectations. Like you should definitely go, but you shouldn't expect the world. You know, you should go in expecting feedback and to learn something. If you can afford it. Yeah. It's a good opportunity to network with a lot of people, to ask a lot of questions. It's just, it's good vibes too.

6:53Okay. Yeah. All fair points. Okay. How about this? Don't go to Expo West if you think the arena and the top floor of the convention center, you know the one that's way, way up? I don't mean like the way up. I mean the way, way, way up. Don't go if you think those places are going to be traffic bastions. They're not going to be that. Everyone knows this. The third floor gets good traffic. Yeah. The third floor is awesome. But then there's like another floor on top. No, there's no other floor. No, it's just really long. You're talking about ACC Hot Products, right? That's a great place to be. Yeah, there's people in there.

7:25Oh, no, there was a long pause there. Everyone knows. Well, okay. Sorry. If you want to meet us, we'll be there. I mean, it's about quality, not quantity, Ray. How about that? Yeah, you're actually able to like linger and talk and you're not just, I don't know. I think like the third floor, they've got the startup CPG area and stuff. There's good stuff up there. There's bad corners for traffic everywhere. How many times have you been to the arena in the last like five, six years? The arena? I think I went there last year. How long were you there for? I mean, I don't know what the context of this is anyway, because either you have a booth in the arena at this point and Ray's just calling you stupid, basically, or you don't.

8:05And this is kind of meaningless. No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying don't expect a ton of traffic at these places. We'll go to the arena. Yeah. I go to the arena every year. I don't think anyone's expecting a ton of traffic in the arena. Jackie goes to the arena. I go to the arena. We had some amazing bison chili in the arena one year. Oh, my gosh. That's a memory. There's some great stuff in the arena. Yeah, they had an actual bison.

8:28that's uh that's so natural i can't even get over it you're just carving up the bison and making some chili right out of that animal okay all right now mike he's killing me uh mike already addressed this point but i'll say it anyway don't go to expo west if you have no actual plan other than just to be there and soak it all in to me this sounds self-explanatory but this is an expensive show to attend, especially, especially if you don't live locally. I do think you should make a plan and then break it any chance you get, because you're going through the aisles, you've got some contents you want to see, or you, you know, you've got to meet with someone and you're having a great opportunistic conversation.

9:10There's a lot of, I guess, wiggle room and plans at Expo West. I mean, unless you're meeting with your dream retailer, they're probably going to be on time or a few minutes late because they're late from their last meeting. That was phenomenal. and be at your booth, you know, if you're going to meet with them. But there's just a lot of meetings that get moved around at Expo West because so many great conversations happen. You just run into somebody that you wanted to meet forever and you have the conversation. I'm saying about people who do not have a booth there. Well, okay, but I mean, you know, soak it all in could mean anything.

9:42I think if you're just going there and trying to do maximum networking, is that soaking it all in? Soaking in all the networking? That's fine. Who are you networking with? What kind of question is that? Like you could, there's so many good people there. You go to literally like a pile of different happy hours. Like you could just stand around high traffic booths that everyone's going to see. I mean, it's not rocket science figuring out what sort of the cool products are to go see, right? Stand around high traffic booths. I never thought of that. That's, that's an interesting. I mean, sometimes I do it unintentionally.

10:11It's like you go to sample something and then you constantly. John doesn't understand is that wherever he is. I'm just going to say, are you trying to say that? You're the one who's following him. There are certain products. Hey, it's John Craven. Yes, that's it. I have my own booth. Yes. Anyway. I guess to Ray's point, though, like that's kind of a plan, you know, like I'm going to go buy a high traffic booth or I'm going to go to happy hours. Sure. So there's a little bit of, you know, planning around that. I mean, I would say the temptation of soaking it all in is that a lot of us are just consumers of all this stuff, too.

10:43Right. So I could walk the show thinking, gee whiz, me as a guy who likes to shop at a Whole Foods or an air one or sprouts or whatever like or say gee whiz all all the brands that you shop are there and i could just go around eating samples and loading up a sample bag of that is that a good use of your time i'm just saying that's literally the only thing i could think of doing that would be a bad use of your time maybe okay second thing rocking second thing that would be a bad use of your time and say gee willikers this time i don't even know i don't know what that is uh uh i mean there are some people that just sit in their booth like on their laptop or their phone you know yeah and generally speaking those are not the brands that are in our audience but i saw a bunch of those at the fancy food show you know where it's like we walk up to a booth to get a sample and there's a guy on a laptop who doesn't even look up that's usually like the international it is yeah i wasn't gonna say it but you did yeah wow right i mean you know hey there's value in transparency here sure in fairness that guy was probably closing on a container load deal of like his truffles or whatever we're eating but yes exactly he's probably losing money by looking at that's when john just slowly he doesn't understand like he slowly creeps his hand out to like steal like you know a jar of truffle sauce and then and all of a sudden like the guy looks up and then he's just too like lazy then we run i created a diversion yeah but anyway okay here is perhaps the most important do not go to expo west if point that I'm trying to make here.

12:12Okay. And I've heard this, you know, from folks that have been there. Oh, I got it. Here we go. Is it the fear of large crowds? If you have a clinically diagnosed condition? Is that agoraphobia? I think that's what it is. I don't know. Okay, we'll go with it. Jeez, I mean, 80 ,000 people, if you want to... You should not go. Yeah, you're not going to be a very happy person. That's the only useful bit of information we've given you in this entire podcast. Not true. Or host meetings off location, you know, have people come to you. There you go. That would be fun to try to extract people from Expo West Good luck with that Here's the one that's going to get me bad from the show Don't go to Expo West unless you understand that there's a strong likelihood That you will receive no explicable ROI from the show Hold on No measurable ROI you mean?

13:01Measurable, explicable Take your pick There are thousands and thousands of brands that are exhibiting. And despite retailers sending armies of buyers and category managers and investors supposedly waving their checkbooks around, it's a logistical nightmare. Lots of brands get overlooked and few get the kind of deals that are purported to take place at Expo West. All right, now I'm definitely not going. I'm curious your data set, right? I think literally everything you said, just think the opposite. Why? What do you mean by that? I think there's plenty of measurable value for people. Come on now.

13:37No, I'm saying people close deals in their booths. Look, I've heard this from people. I've heard this anecdotally from people who are there. I'm just saying that if you go there and you're going there for exposure and awareness into network and all this other stuff, great. If you're going there and you're saying, look, I am definitely going to get the 20 grand, the 30 grand I spent on this show. And I'm going to get that back tenfold, even onefold. I don't know if that's real. Yeah, but also you might not meet the buyer you, you know, you're going in for, but you might meet a connection that leads to that buyer.

14:06Or I feel like it's all about networking and creating that community and planting the seeds for the future. So it might not happen on the show floor, but it might happen, you know, two steps down from there. I do think that there's value to planning what's next after Expo West 2. And, you know, to be self-serving, some things like, you know, a little industry advertising can't hurt you to do after the event or before the event to get people to come to your booth, after the event to, you know, remind people to have the conversation or finish the conversation that you started at your booth or to continue the vibe of Expo West, kind of control the narrative.

14:45There's a lot of reasons to not put all of your eggs in the Expo West basket, but I think, you know, it's a good place to put eggs. Great place to put eggs. I think it's a good place, as Jackie mentioned, to plant seeds. I think if you run into someone from BevNetNosh or Taste Radio and you say, hey... Eggs are seeds that hatch chickens, right? Okay. Wait a minute. Do dogs lay eggs? Yes. Yes, they do. Dogs lay eggs? They do. They do. Yes. That's from Family Guy when Peter's like, you know, I learned today that dogs don't lay eggs. And he learned something new today. Anyway. No, planting a seed is important.

15:28Incredible. You know, I love, look, you know, a lot of this was designed to generate some conversation and to get some discussion going, obviously. Is this Taste Radio's version of Rage Bait? Yes, it's Rage Bait. Because you're making me rageful. No, I enjoy going to Expo West. I particularly enjoy going and seeing early stage brands and meeting their founders and seeing the innovation that is going to be driving the food and beverage industry forward over the next five, 10 years. I really do. I love when people are wide eyed and bushy tails and excited about what they're doing. I just get sometimes kind of disappointed when this show is so big and there are so many people and so many booths that people get swallowed up.

16:12And I just want to make sure that people are aware of the fact that they have to use their time really wisely and that they have to be very conscious of who they're talking to and why. And yes, meet, network, and collect business cards and so on and so forth, but be really intentional about what you're doing. I think Expo West is a collection of microcosms of awesome experiences. So yes, you have brands that are closing their big dream deals, but you also have, think back to when we met like Glow Nuts at Expo West Jackie, you know, if you talk about bright eyed and bushy tailed brands who walked the floor and we were meeting Kristen from Glow Nuts and talking about her aspirations and how far they've come since then.

16:52And we got a chance to meet like Mazza who had their own, you know, vegetable boards that they were serving to people and they didn't have a booth, but they were getting all kinds of attention. And I mean, it just, it means different things to different people at different stages. And that's one of the beautiful things about Expo West. Yeah. And even like brands that aren't exhibiting, like a lot of these brands that Mike's talking about, they slid into our DMs and wanted to talk and they were like, we're going to meet you in this corner at this time. And we're bringing stuff in our backpack. You know what I mean?

17:25Like you got to be a little bit hungry and you got to set up meetings and you have to be a little bit more intentional, especially if you don't have a booth to drive people to. I got to meet the founders of Grounded at Expo West and they had their own not a booth where they basically were just like, you know, a side of the booth, set up their own little sampling station and were like doing these gorilla samples and just like some incredible meetups. Next to a high traffic booth is what you're saying? It was actually, it was in the corner near a, near a restroom. So. Oh, okay. Definitely want to meet folks there.

17:57You can just meet people anywhere in Expo West. It was a high traffic area. By the freaking way. Just ride the escalator from the lower level to the main level the entire day handing out samples. That's actually genius. I'm sure you won't get thrown out. You have people trapped. But like, now that's a brand that's doing well in Whole Foods right now. You know, Gabriel Bean and his amazing ground. That was the secret to their sauce. The men's room. Yeah. Oh, Jesus. I said near, not in. He went there. He went. Okay, well, Well, I'm going to do a PSA here. Jake Carlson, on the other hand. I'm going to do a PSA here.

18:30And that was what I was getting at with just a freaking second here. And Nate, who's our studio director and our minister of photographic arts, will attest. When you walk into a bathroom and you don't wash your hands, people notice. Please, for the love of God. When you go to the bathroom, wash your hands. And I know that doesn't apply to our highly hygienic and wonderful listeners. But if you happen to see someone, say something. You know what? There's airport signs that says, if you see something, say something. This is what I'm trying to say about the hand washing. If you see something, say something.

19:09For the love of God. I think this... We got Rage Lateef today. Yeah, we did. Yeah, I don't think you should follow that advice. We needed a legal disclaimer that those opinions are raise and raise only. Have you talked to Bev Ness Attorney this morning? Yes. I don't think you want to just accost people, but anyway. All right. Fair enough. Okay. Everyone knows. They have a code of conduct, and I'm pretty sure explicitly probably says don't do stuff like that. Okay. Well, everyone knows I'm just saying these things in jest. Ray's just going to body slam them. No. Douse them in hand sanitizer. Fire them down off her roof.

19:42No, boy. All right. Well, I've stood in my soapbox. I'm off it now. And I do want to say, if you are going to Expo West, we do want to see you. So send us those DMs, send us a note on LinkedIn, email us. We'd love to see you. And if you decide not to go and blame me, please don't tell the folks at New Hope because who don't listen to our show probably. Just blame Ray. They listen to our show. Oh, hey, Ray's soapbox is full of soap. Can we sample a product now? Yeah. Speaking of high traffic booze. Because I feel like I've got one that's really appropriate to follow this whole entire conversation which is this new liquid death dr death kind of describes the past 20 minutes but how does that describe the past killer cola i know we should just nuke the last 25 minutes just they yeah they need a new skew just called nuked no flavor it's just nuked but yeah this is uh liquid death has these new i guess we call them sodas even though they call them uh flavored sparkling water but they have a uh dr death which is like a dr pepper killer cola and i don't remember what the name of the root beer wrath bro yeah i feel like sorry liquid death that's kind of the lamest least least edgy name of the three but these are 10 calories have some uh stevia in them definitely taste like a diet soda pretty good pretty good yeah they're pretty tasty wish it was called a soda yeah they're sparkling they're technically called sparkling water but they have sweetener and what it says flavored sparkling water so yeah i mean it's it tastes like diet soda though it's like diet soda and for that it's pretty good diet soda that's 10 calories and no artificial sweeteners that's that's a good deal and you look cool holding the can.

21:35And you match. Speaking of... Mine matches. It's camouflage. Camouflage. I got one that kind of matches mine. Mine's camo. Yeah, you do too. We mentioned Mate Party a couple of weeks ago. This is a brand of sparkling yerba mates. They have three varieties. I mentioned they have a lightly sweet and unsweetened and a mint grapefruit. We met the founder, Jessica Oliverio, I believe is how you pronounce your last name. At the Winter Fancy Food Show, she so kindly sent us samples. I'm so excited to get into these. And yeah, very cool looking brand. Very cool.

22:16Also, samples in the office of a brand called Sacred Bev, which is a maker of wellness beverages. I pulled a couple from the cooler. They have a couple of different functional benefits. each one is specific to a functional benefit. We have an immunity, we have a wellness, the immunity has a blackberry flavor, the wellness is a pomegranate lemonade flavor, each is infused with different functional herbs. So the immunity is with astragalus, echinacea, burdock, and ginseng. Justin Quisquis, who is the founder of the company, joined us recently for an episode of Elevator Talk. Nice. And it was great.

22:56Check it out on the bevnet.com. And if you're interested in participating in Elevator Talk, you should. If you're an early stage brand listening and you want to build some awareness within our community, you want to get people to know what you're doing, and you want to hear some good advice from one of our expert co-hosts, just apply to be on the show. Here's a little tip. Unless you're a brand that's been around for a while or a very large brand, aka Liquid Death, you'll probably be able to get on the show. So if you're zero to three years in, you've got some traction, but you're not necessarily like in every Walmart in the country, we will definitely accept your application and love to have you on the show.

23:34If you're not sure if you're going to get on the show, you can just ask us and we know the people have made the decisions. Absolutely. Speaking of elevator talk, the brand I have in my hand right here, Pody Life would be a great fit. I don't know if they've been on the show or not, but I recommend they do apply. They are a line of seasonings, but what they do is it's kind of like a dehydrated sauce. So they actually are based in like nuts and legumes and lentils. So they have a crispy garlic seasoning, and then they also have this zesty coriander seasoning. And then I know they also have like meal kits and they're really just trying to bring South Indian pantry staples to consumers.

24:19I'm excited to try these. Are they based in San Diego? They're not. They're actually based in Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, okay. I feel like I've heard of them, but I'm not sure from where. Maybe they just have a familiar name. Yeah. They have some fun packaging too. And then on the front, they tell you exactly what's in there and you can see it like in the seasonings. Nice. Nice. I have in my hand a bottle of Neawater, N-E-A-U. And Neawater is one of the partners for our Miami meetup, which is happening in a week. Well, a few days from the publication date of this episode. But February 11th, I know John always gets in my case about this.

24:56February 11th at Ampersand Studios in Miami from 6 to 8 p.m. We are expecting a good turnout, actually a very good turnout. founders, investors, retailers, distributors, consultants, so on and so forth. And now is the time to sign up. If you have not, tasteradio.com slash Miami. If you're a founder, you're an operator working with a brand, bring samples. B-Y-O-S will have some places for you to showcase those samples so people can taste your product, look at it, hopefully buy it at some point or even invest in it. So Miami meetup. Thank you so much to new water. Once again, for being a great partner and matriarch wealth management also for being a great partner.

25:40Thank you for the event. Tierra Negra. What a brand. Thanks Ray. That's what I'm holding in my hand. Ray and I just sampled this at the, uh, winter fancy food show. Uh, such a great time being there without Mike, but, um, it is premium Mexican dark salsa. It's like a, Like a more intense salsa matcha meets a mole, I guess is how I would describe it. So good. So good. Of course, I wasn't there to taste it. Yeah, he doesn't know anything about that. I'm pretty sure it's good. It is, yeah, really good stuff. Super nice founders that we met at the event. And yeah, excited to, I don't know, put this on some tacos or something or anything.

26:20Just eat it from the jar maybe. I had it with some falafel the other day. Oh, yeah? That was really good. That sounds good. Yeah. The folks from Tierra Negra actually highlighted our mention of the brand on the LinkedIn and the IG. And now we have a jar. Yeah. So Mike found our next thing to talk about here. This is Mike. Go ahead. Well, it looks like Cleveland Kitchen's gotten themselves into some sauce, right? Some everything sauces. Yeah. They're a maker of fermented products, mostly. We know from their kraut. Their kraut. Their sauerkraut. Their kimchi. Kimchi. They're pickles. And now they've got some sauces here.

26:58I've got the Dill Pickle Buffalo Everything Sauce, which is made with avocado oil. It says it's tangy and spicy. And the Kimchi Ranch Everything Sauce, which is also made with avocado oil and is creamy, spicy, and sweet. You know, Cleveland Kitchen, everything they make is amazing. So I haven't tried these products yet, but I know they're going to be amazing. And I love the fact that you can be pretty versatile with these. It seems like you can put them on anything. I like that they're on brand with Cleveland because they have two very, very tall founders. And Cleveland has two very, very tall buildings.