Elevator Talk: Pantry Gems, Berski, Benni Pops, KiuKiu, Superlova

28:01I met Katie at our San Francisco meetup, and I was doing a bunch of live podcast interviews at the event, and it got really, really hot in that room. And as soon as I was done with the interviews, Katie came up to me and she's like, hey, you look really hot. And I go, oh, thank you very much. I thought I was dressed well. And she goes, no, you're sweating like a pig, Ray. You mean, Ray, you were playing overtime and I was more than water. Yes. But she offered me one of these incredible Benny Pops to soothe my throat, which I had been talking for a while and to cool me off. And I was just so happy that she did because it was exactly what I needed.

28:48And these pops have a beautiful smiley face on them. And you bite into them or you get into them and they taste so good. And then you realize, oh, it's handcrafted with superfruits and adaptogens. Totally right place, right time. And I also think that this is a product that, I don't know, I just love what you're doing. And I know you were able to send some samples to me as well. well, Mia, I hope you had the same experience that I did. Maybe you weren't sweating like a pig like I was in San Francisco, but. Thank God. Although, Ray, I've seen you really in action, so I know. You should just carry a cooler around with you.

29:24Seriously. But no, thank you so much. I realize how expensive it is to ship frozen samples. So I really, as you know, starting out like that, I know that's a big expense, so I really appreciate it. And I was very careful to make sure they got right into the freezer. And then we tried them and I have a 10 year old. And so, you know, I'll always want to get his take. I did. You know, it's funny because I was like, oh, it's like a kid's thing or, you know, because of the packaging. But realized very quickly, it's totally, you know, it's all use. I really it's playful. It's the flavors were amazing.

29:59So, you know, right there, I think you guys have done a really good job with that. I think it's so cute that it is a smiley face. I don't know what that costs from the mold and all of that stuff. And if that's, so I think it's, it's definitely, and I haven't seen anything like it. I haven't seen anything else in the frozen category. You see all these drinks with all of the adaptogens and things like that. So I'm excited to hear a little bit more about, you know, how you kind of came up with it and who your target consumer is where that's concerned. Yeah, so it all started, we were growing gourmet mushrooms on our small mushroom farm about three years ago.

30:39And we were really just trying to like experiment and pack mushrooms into every aspect of our diet. And then I made a mushroom mousse with lion's mane, which was really good. But unfortunately, the storage of them, they ended up going bad pretty quickly. And that's when Katie was like, what if we froze them into popsicles? And it was like pretty immediate that we realized we'd created something really delicious and worthy of like sharing with the world. So it was a pretty exciting moment. That's awesome. Yeah. And I would say like our target, I mean, I can see where you like instantly thought kids, but also like we're trying to add joy in everyone's life, regardless of age, whether you're eight years old or 80, like we just, I think it's just like everybody needs a little bit of happiness in their life.

31:22So that's what we were trying to achieve with a smiley face, but I can see like how, but yeah, kids definitely gravitate towards it. And then I think our target market. I would love to say anyone that wants to eat a popsicle, but like realistically, it's people that are seeking a treat that's like, like scratches that sweet tooth itch, but isn't like a sugar bomb because like for me, like, yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. And then what's the SRP on these? Yeah. So great question. So to go back to that day in San Francisco. So I handed it to him and Ray asked me that. And I was like, oh, well, we retail for like$5.99 to$7.99.

31:56He goes, oh, no one's going to do more than$4.99 for this. And I was like, oh. And I was like, it was so true because that's not the first time I heard it, but I loved that. It was like all this feedback and I was like, oh shoot. All right. So that's one of the things that we're going to tackle this winter is actually reducing the pop size by about 33%. And that will get us to about the$4.99 or lower SRP. And that's per unit? Yes. so then from a retail perspective you'll go I'm just trying to think where you live right because you're used to seeing popsicles in a multi-pack where does this live thankfully I mean I have done a lot of research there are a lot of other brands especially paletas that are sold single and we have had like good sales velocity as a single because I think um it is a grab and go treat so it's like sometimes when you get those multi-packs you're like oh shoot what am I going to do with the rest of these three so it's like we are more of a like a convenience cooling treat yeah I mean I think that that will be that would be great because obviously if you have four of those and you're looking at like a$20 multi-pack for sure that would be really tough but um yeah I mean I think that's probably going to be your biggest hurdle is to drive trial but I think that the concept is there and then the only other question I had or suggestion is maybe putting I love the packaging and I think you've done great, but maybe putting some of the, um, some of the actual ingredients and adaptogens on the front somewhere, you know, to, to kind of call it because it does say handcrafted with superfoods and adaptogens.

33:31Um, but it, it's not, you don't go right to it. And I think that's such a, such a major selling point because to me, I'm like, oh, wow, this is not just a popsicle. You know, you've got your outshines and those sort of healthier kind of trying to be healthier they have tons of sugar too but um but I think that that's such a differentiation for you to be able to do it without cluttering it and again I'm no design expert you're probably way better versed at that than I am but yeah I appreciate that because I think that's really where our one of our biggest challenges right now is finding that balance between this like taste is first and flavor like this tastes good but then I think sometimes people get a little scared or nervous about the mushrooms where they're like oh is it overpowering.

34:12So that's where we're struggling. We're going to redo our packaging this winter as well of like popsicle tasty first, then secondary functional mushrooms. And sometimes people get freaked out when we put the mushrooms on the front. Awesome. No, they were amazing. And I really appreciate you sending samples. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. So two things. One, I hope I didn't come across as crazy when I was talking about the price of the wines. I tried to be like, I think$4 is an appropriate price point for a single serving of this, I think, especially given all that's inside of it. I think now that I'm looking at the package a little bit more closely, your statement of identity at the very bottom is frozen herbal supplement.

34:57I know you mentioned you're going through a packaging revamp, but how much of this is marketed to people who are looking for a functional benefit as much as they are? looking for, you know, an indulgent, delicious treat. And I think sort of walking that line and finding that balance is going to be the key to your future. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think that's like something that's why we were really stoked to get on here and also get me as insights because that's, we have to make these critical decisions for next year, this winter. And we're really, it's kind of been honestly all over the place where people have suggested, like, get the mushrooms up in the front.

35:39That's what people are looking for. And other people are like, Like, nope, bury it on the back. Just make it really clear cut. This is the flavor you're getting. And then people turn it over and then they're like, oh, these are the benefits. So, yeah. I think that the consumers, especially, you know, your consumers are much more sort of educated now. Again, like I said, I focus in natural specialty. So in conventional, probably much less so. And exactly what you're saying. But in natural specialty, I think people are now, they're aware, like, mushrooms aren't going to make them trip out and hallucinate.

36:09you know it's definitely i think that they are more aware in this specific channel so i i get it you have a you have a fine line that you have to walk where you want to appeal to um the greater mass but at the same time those that want that those types of products in their body you know you could really be grabbing earlier so it is a tough one it's a tough one it might come down to the kind of where you guys want to launch and start that's also really good feedback too because we did a lot of events where it was just kind of like mainstream, like art and wine festivals, where most people who go there just want if they're seeking a sweet treat, they're going to go get like conventional ice cream, or pastries or cookies or something like that.

36:48So we got feedback from that where people were kind of like, you know, I'm not here to be healthy. But I think they were like, Oh, God, am I going to trip out on this? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that just wasn't the best or really like the specific to the kind of the audience we're actually seeking. So I appreciate that feedback. Yeah. Mia, just in the limited amount of time we have left, you know, let's say that Katie and Paul are walking into Sprouts or a Whole Foods and they get in touch with a retail buyer and they say, OK, you know, would love a moment of your time or they get that meeting. What's the what's the what's the pitch look like?

37:28I mean, if you if If you could dial it down to, you know, a 10, 15 second pitch, how would you advise them as to really get that person's attention and get them excited about what they're doing? Yeah, I think knowing your category incredibly well, obviously knowing, you know, anything to do with any competitors out there, why you're different. And then knowing where you live on shelf. That's always a really good one. And, you know, again, I'm just blanking right now. I've seen Sprouts set a thousand times. I just don't in my brain see individual popsicles anywhere. So I'm like, how are they going to want to multi-pack?

38:01So really doing your research on what they're currently carrying helps a ton. And then if you do have any accounts that you're in or selling into, small is fine. Knowing the numbers that you're doing there, your velocities where, you know, we've got repeat customers, we've got this, anything, you know, coming from online as well. And then sharing your feedback from the events that you're sampling at, you know, what are you hearing people say? That's really important. We just pitched an ice cream to Sprouts, you know, and that they were doing a lot of these events and had some great feedback and consumer, you know, they want to know that too.

38:33So I think just really knowing that category. Yeah, that's excellent advice. I sat down with the founder of a brand called Harkin Sweets. Her name is Katie Lefkowitz and it's a brand of better for you candy bars and so on. And she actually got a yes when she walked in and got her meeting with a Walmart buyer. And so she got a yes in the room. And it's because, and she mentioned this in our interview, she knew that category inside and out. She knew all the distributors for that point of sale, that cash register area where a lot of the candy bars are sold. She knew the competitive set. And because she was armed with all this information and she had a great product and brand, And the buyer was like, how could I not say yes?

39:22And so I think that's such excellent advice is not just know who your consumer is, but know the set and know the set in the retailer that you're trying to pitch to. So great stuff. Well, I could talk about Benny Pops for another two, three hours, and I think I would really enjoy those two, three hours, but we're out of time. Paul, Katie, thank you so much. Thanks so much for coming out to our San Francisco event. We're planning to be back in that amazing city in 2026. But in the meantime, if there's anything we can do to help along your journey, any introductions we can make to retailers or folks like Mia, please let us know and we'll do what we can.

39:59Thank you so much. I appreciate you both. Yeah, thank you both. All right. I absolutely love this show. Isn't it great, Mia? Isn't it fantastic? I love it, Tony. I'll just do your host every time. I love it so much. It's so fun. It's so great. I mean, these people are changing the industry. literally you know one brand one product at a time and it's just fantastic all right on to our next guest for this episode of elevator talk we have john liu who is the founder of qq john great to see you great to see you ray um and lovely to meet you mia um so i'm john i'm the founder of qq and we make bouncy chewy rice-based pantry staples um so we're starting with our mochi pancake and waffle mixes in ube.

40:47So this is our packaging in ube, pandan, coconut and black sesame. So they're all made with California grown rice flour, then actually gluten free. So a little bit about the inspiration. I grew up in Taiwan, and a lot of my family were rice farmers. So in Asia, there's obviously a lot of chewy bouncy foods, think mochi, rice cakes, boba. And actually, as a fun fact, QQ is a phrase that's commonly used in Asia that describes that texture. So kind of like how Italians say al dente. So I actually want QQ to also become part of the cultural vocabulary in the US. But when I moved to the US, I couldn't really find many rice based chewy foods beyond, you know, obviously there's mochi ice creams in the freezer aisle.

41:33And I've always loved baking and cooking with rice flour. So, you know, pancakes, cookies, waffles, even pasta, like anything I could sub rice fat into, I would. So that's really what inspired QQ. And a little bit about our progress so far. So I launched just about two months ago, and we're mainly sold DTC online. But I've also, you know, gotten us into around 65 now specialty retailers, really to prove out that install velocity. And actually, this week, we just launched into Northern California Safeways and also seven Andronico's markets in the Bay Area. So that's obviously, you know, Albertsons Group's natural, I guess, chain in the Bay.

42:16And Mia, I love what you said too about growing methodically and sustainably. So, you know, I'm currently bootstrapping Kiki from my own savings. I was in tech before this. So I'm especially excited to just get your thoughts on that as well. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have to say it's funny and looking at all of the, I'm, I love your packaging. Like the packaging is just so fun. Shameless, you know, shameless plug here or, you know, not plug, whatever. But I'm like, these are one of the samples I didn't get. And I was really sad about that. Mia, Mia, they're on the way. I promise. I put them in the mail on Monday so you can get them to.

42:55But I just think it is like, and again, Ray talks about, you know, all of the brands that we get to talk to and all of this. And it's like when you see such innovation like this in a category like this, you know, kind of a stale category, right? Like to see something like this, I've never have never seen anything like this before. It just is so exciting. And I think those are the kinds of really exciting brands that retailers like. You know, you hear when I was talking earlier about Gelson's, right? Gelson's is one of the retailers that they're always like, we want to be first to market. We want this.

43:27So taking brands like that and a lot of basically most of the brands that we talk to on here, being able to take those to our retailers that are looking for first to market opportunities is so fun. So that being said, your product looks amazing. I love mochi. I love all of that. So I can only imagine the pancakes taste great. I will then ask my standard question. What is the SRP? How do you compare? Obviously, there's nothing else like it, so comparing it is difficult. But talking about knowing the category, how do you compare it in the category as well? Yeah, so currently in DTC and then also some of the specialty retailers, it hovers around$13 per unit.

44:10And that makes about 16 pancakes, so a good family-sized serving. And then in conventional, it's around$10.99 to$11.99, just depending on the outlet. And then in terms of how that compares to, you know, standard pancake mixes, it's probably, you know, a couple dollars, three dollars more, which I think makes sense given obviously the... And obviously we're comparing to premium pancake mixes, not your, you know, Bisquick or whatever we're talking, you know, it's definitely... Exactly, like probably, you know, one of the paleo birch benders or something like that, yeah. And then it's interesting that, are you based in Northern California?

44:50yeah we're based in San Francisco oh okay awesome um because I was gonna ask it's interesting that you chose to launch with Safeway um being conventional I think Andronica does make a ton of sense there so I'm curious have you hit shelves in Safeway yet yeah so we're going to be hitting the shelves this week um and I think that that's definitely a great point you know obviously I think when I first started out, given the more premium positioning of QQ, I felt like obviously a Whole Foods or, you know, another natural chain would probably be the obvious choice. I mean, that's definitely still potentially in the cards, hopefully next year.

45:30Whole Foods is a long game, I will tell you that. So the fact that you've just launched and you've already got a major retail partner like Albertsons is amazing. And regardless of the channel, I still will, you know, advise, like lean into that partnership and relationship where you can really, you'll be able to sort of ascertain your velocities and things like that. A lot of people go from natural specialty into conventional and you kind of have to cut those numbers because you won't sell as much. So you'll, you can use those numbers and think you'll probably sell a little bit more because your core consumer is shopping in natural specialty, you know?

46:03So that's great. Are you going through Kehi to get to Albertsons? No, we're actually using pod distributors right now. John also came to our San Francisco meetup and the entire room just smelled amazing. And everyone was like, where is that coming from? And it was pretty obvious because you were cooking up pancakes in the corner and everyone's just like, oh my gosh. And I saw everyone eating them. Ironically, I didn't get to taste them. But no, don't. Yeah, don't don't worry. It was a busy night and I was very talkative and not unable to eat things. But it just feels like trial is going to be so important because not everyone's going to know about what mochi pancakes and waffles taste like.

46:48And if you can get into a store and just have people smelling it and so on and so forth, it goes a long way. So what is your demo strategy? What is your trial strategy? you? Yeah, so definitely agree with you. I think, you know, with this product, I think it's a good balance of sort of putting a textural and cultural twist on an American breakfast classic. So at least with pancakes, people are familiar with, you know, the format. But definitely, I think with the flavors and the texture, it really does, you know, invite trial to really move that velocity off the shelf. So that really is going to be the forefront of our strategy for, you know, the Safeways and Andronico's.

47:26So far, I've also done, you know, a ton of samplings, just did one last week at Pop-Up Grocer in New York, and really saw, you know, that just lift. We sold out in the store. And we were number one in the category for, you know, sort of this quarter so far. So I've really seen the trialing and the sampling payoff. I think people just don't really know what to expect until they try it and hopefully they love it. Yeah. And I know you're bootstrapped, John, but there are companies out there that do demos and handle demo strategy for companies. I don't know how effective they are. I don't know what advice Mia would offer in hiring those types of companies.

48:10I think it's absolutely one of the things that when we approach a retailer, they to know, especially again, because we work with a lot of, you know, newer innovative brands, they want to know that you're going to come in and there's so much consumer education that is needed, you know, here when launching a new brand like this. So they want to know that you're going to do demos. They want to know that you're going to support that because if they're going to cut space on the shelf to put you in, you know, they want to know how they're going to move product. I would, that's a great, I'm so glad you brought that up, right?

48:38Because I do think that one of the things that you can do because demos are so expensive, as I'm sure you know, and you will find very quickly, you just can't do them all yourself. But sharing those demos and finding certain agencies that will allow you to split that demo with somebody, you know, yours would pair very nicely with a juice company or, you know, there's something like that. So that's always something to consider. And maybe talk to some of those demo companies out there about doing that to keep your costs down, but really get that education out there. But yes, Ray, I highly recommend building that into your budget.

49:13As I said, retailers will want to see what you're going to do to support that. Yeah, that's a really good point. I think with pancakes too, there are so many different condiments that you can add. We've definitely, I've roped in some friends like in New York, I'm quite good friends with the sour milk founders, the yogurt brand that's really taking Instagram by storm. And yeah, that was a great, you know, topping that even putting some sour milk on the pancakes also really helped move that velocity. So I think that that's a great idea. Amazing. And then even like an ingredient company, you know, if you have a butter, I think it said you have to add, you add butter is one of the things that you add to.

49:53So you're finding a butter company that people don't want to taste butter, but if you're cooking it with the butter and you can demo it, you know, things like that. So it doesn't even have to be like an addition to, but anyway, really great. Yeah, that's a great idea. I didn't think about the ingredients that you mix in, but I feel like also definitely going to sit down and think about that now. Good for that, no pun intended. From an Instagram standpoint, I'm on your page right now. And the stuff that really pops out to me is the stuff which features the finished pancake or finished waffle there's one post uh where someone's just squeezing three pancakes together and the caption is get inside of me and i and i'm like i want that right now um have you found that's that's the really effective way of getting people interested are those the most liked or um most engaged posts yeah definitely i mean i will say when i quit my job to start qq i did not think that i'd be spending so much time just filming myself squeezing pancakes on camera I really do just maybe twice a day, just whenever I'm eating them, whenever I make them, I will rip open a batch and just do this for some B-roll.

51:02So, yeah, very, it's not expected, but that's definitely been the type of post that really resonates with, you know, social media users. I think just showing that texture even, even if they can't, you know, taste it through the screen has been really effective. So yeah, I'm definitely going to over-index on those until people can see. Get in there and figure out how to do some ASMR pancake making. Oh my gosh, I've tried. Yeah, I need to get one of the small mics and just sort of like, you know, squeeze it, pour syrup on it, slosh it around. Yeah. I'm starving. I am so hungry right now. Amazing.

51:38Well, I'll need to send you some too, Ray. I'm sad you didn't get to try the Minessa. No, it's my fault. It's my fault. But hopefully when you're, I should be in New York at some point in the next few weeks and I'll have to swing by Pop-Up Grocer. I want to get into this place where we're buying more product than just getting samples because it's really important to support early stage entrepreneurs. But John, it's been so great having you on the show. Thank you so much. Please stay in touch as you continue to grow and get into new retailers. We want to know about it. We want to talk about it on Nosh and beyond.

52:10So just please keep us in the loop and excited to see what's next. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much, Ray. Thank you, Mia. Have a great day. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more.

52:34All right. On to our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk. we have Helen Lee, who's the co-founder of Superlova. Helen, it's great to see you. Hi. Hi, Ray. It's nice to meet you and you as well, Mia. My name is Helen and I am the co-founder of Superlova. We're a small batch Chinese inspired sauce brand from San Diego. So our core belief is that convenience shouldn't mean sacrifice, especially when it comes to taste, quality and definitely not health. So we make sauces that are ready to eat for home cooks and adventurous foodies who love real food, but don't always have the time to spend on lengthy prep.

53:25So with Superlova, you can just take whatever that's in your fridge and make it incredible in a matter of seconds just by drizzling, tossing, or dolloping. So we currently have two flavors. We have our Dandan sauce and our Mei Mei sauce. Our Dandan sauce is this one right here. It's spicy, it's tingly, it's nutty. And just think Sichuan Chili Crisp meets sesame butter. And you can use it not only on noodles, pasta, but you can also use it on... burgers, meats, fish, veggies. You can use it as a spread, as a dip, paired with cheese. The possibilities are endless. And then the other product we have is the meime sauce.

54:15And the meime sauce, on the other hand, is not spicy. It's kids-friendly. It's nutty, creamy, and umami. And it's an instant glow up for any roasted veggies. And I would say it's the cheat code to get you and your family to eat more vegetables. Our sauces are made with olive oil and whole grain stone ground sesame paste that give the products this nutty flavor without any nuts in it. And we source our key ingredients from China to keep the flavors true to their roots. the products are free of any inflammatory oils preservatives msg because we believe in making products that we would feel good about feeding our own kids unfortunately i didn't get to meet you at our san diego meetup but my colleague jackie brugliera did and she i don't think she's been able to put a jar down she's just in love with what you guys are doing and um in particular with the Dandan sauce we talked about in a recent episode.

55:21And I just love that it's a product or that you have products that can just instantly turn basic noodles into a really delicious meal. I love that. I love that. And in fact, I was just having some noodles the other day. I'm like, these are really bland. I wish I had some soup over here. Not asking for samples. Dumbness is not. I'm happy to say it's dumb. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. Like I said, I will go to your website and buy one. But Mia, you know, it seems like we've seen an explosion of jarred sauces that can enhance a meal or basically create a meal. I think the big question is, how do you stand out in this exploding space, right?

56:05Yeah, I totally agree. First of all, thank you so much, Helen, for sending samples. apparently I need to be attending these San Diego meetups because there's all this like I'm missing out on so much so let me know about that Ray we'll be we'll be back soon amazing I'll definitely be there um so anyway thank you so much I did get my samples and I actually was like when I opened them I was so hungry I just did dug in with a spoon because I was like I just want to get the full effect you know I would I was obviously I was very you know moderate with it but it there the flavor profiles are amazing and I can see why Jackie is not able to put them down I did use the don don on salmon and I will tell you that it was amazing so that that was great um I think that what's interesting and when you say like how do you stand out and how you know I think your packaging is so fun and I think you know there is I think there's there was like there's like it's almost like a misconception like oh is it too busy or is it but like everything that you have on here is useful information kind of makes you want to read through it which you know is it's that's what's done very well and differently than a lot of things that are just super loud and how i have it right here but super loud and have you know but i really love you know the information noodles pasta veggie meat and fish dumplings it has um all of the things on the side it's got your no seed oil you're nuts you're you know I think it's just so it's done so well and I think that is one of the things and they're very differentiated which is super nice too because I think a lot of times brands can come in with these you know a little bit busier packaging and then you can't tell the difference between the two so you've differentiated the colors enough and so really really a huge fan so great job there I'm super impressed again I'm not a designer but I'm just giving you my two cents And so, you know, I think that's where we also then have to go to on shelf, right?

58:05Like this is the type of thing that I will stand, I think will stand out on shelf. Where do we compare with our retails? How do we compare? What is that looking like? You know, I actually spoke with another CPG veteran who asked me the same questions. Like if we were to go into bigger retails, which we're not in currently, we're in smaller specialty stores and pop, um, grocers, um, we're in quite a few of them across the country through fair. Um, and we sell, um, DTC and we're on a, um, major, um, like, uh, e-commerce, um, grocer, as well called Milk Street. And but when it comes to like a major retail, the question is where would our products go?

58:59Because the categorization is a little bit difficult because it's not, it does so many things. It's so much more than just a chili crisp. So to put it next to a chili crisp, it would kind of downplay what it can do. but because it can be used as a dip as well um you can put it on so many different things um so that has kind of been my question um as well like how do we position ourselves once we um reach out to retailers um to try to get into one and also um there's been some questions asked about the packaging itself, not in the design, but in the format jar, because it also brings the question like how it's used, right?

59:52But the challenging part is that we use sesame paste, and it's like a very different product from tahini. It's an Asian sesame paste. It uses the whole grain of the sesame. It's delicious, but there's an issue with the texture because it settles after a while and it needs to be stirred up. So that's why it's in jars and not in a squeeze bottle because in a squeeze bottle, you can't really stir it. So, but this is the kind of product that you almost want to put in a squeeze bottle because you want to just, you know, squeeze it on your, like on bread or it's also easier for people to use. That's a comment that I've heard before from some people in the industry.

1:00:36So I would love to get your take on that. I think as far as where it lives, again, that's one of the things that, you know, you can get that information by, you know, we had talked about Seaside Market, you're in San Diego. So, you know, I could see that being a really good testing ground, right? There's also a lot of opportunity to say, okay, we're next to the chili. And then you get another retailer, a small retailer, you know, and you're, let's say you're next to, you're an ethnic. So you're an ethnic in one, you're next to the chili crisp in another. There's also cross promotion. I can see this being in like meat and seafood, just getting, you know, put up on the counters and things like that.

1:01:10So I think getting some of those smaller accounts, it sounds like you're in a few and, and, and trying to get, you know, a good idea of where you're so that when you do go to larger accounts, you say, well, we, you know, we don't sell as well, shockingly in the chili crisp, that we really like to be here. And, and that way you're kind of telling them where to go. So that will always, I think, you know, they kind of want you to do that homework first, right? So that would be a really good way to kind of get some testing ground, which is these one-off retailers. And then, like I said, the pricing will also, you know, how do we compare?

1:01:43If we're higher, then what do we have to show that we're worth being, you know, a higher price and what differentiates us there? I think the jar makes sense. One of the things I hate about jars, and it's just unfortunate, is that it gets on the top because I'll shake it, you know, and it gets on the top. And then when you open it and then it drips down the side, it's just there's nothing you can do about it. It's just a thing. You could, I mean, I see the idea like we have a dressing, you know, a salad dressing that we work with and they have a bottle with a wider mouth, you know, something like that.

1:02:17if you're looking to be more of a marinade or something like that. But you do have so many uses and purposes that I think it's really kind of seeing where you sell best on shelf with a couple of test markets. Okay, that's a great idea to test that out first and then determine kind of which way the packaging should go based on that. Okay, that's great. Obviously, Ray, I know you're familiar with this as well. So any feedback? I mean, in terms of the package type, I think it's almost something when you're doing demos, if you do have a squeeze bottle versus the jar and just ask customers or, you know, people who are trying the product, you know, which would you prefer?

1:02:56Just getting as much information as you can and getting a wide sample of, you know, feedback from folks. But at the end of the day, it really is going to depend on the retailer. The retail buyer is going to tell you, you know, yes, we'll carry this as a jar. Yes, we'll carry this as a squeeze bottle. So I think you well, I mean, I would assume that, you know, they're going to have some serious input on that. I mean, maybe maybe they wouldn't carry you as a squeeze bottle. Maybe they're like, we will only carry you as a squeeze bottle. So I think being able to talk to those folks and get meetings is really important.

1:03:30But, you know, Mia gives great advice in that, you know, start with the small folks, start with the seaside where you can actually probably, you know, bend their ear for more than like a minute or even just get a meeting in the first place. and see where it lives in their store, see where it might fit on their shelves, and then build off of that information, build off of that traction that you might have in those retailers to get into a larger one. But for me personally, I think the jar format is just so ubiquitous. I think that's probably the right place to be right now. Although I do agree, if I'm cooking or if I'm squeezing this onto a sandwich, which a bottle could make a ton of sense too.

1:04:13So it's a tough question. Yeah. It's also which format would get the customers to use it up faster. Yeah, which is why I think when you're doing a trial, maybe have both on hand just to see which, and just ask the customer, what do you think would be easier? What do you think would fit best into your home? And they'll give you some good feedback. Usually people are pretty honest. At least that's what they, entrepreneurs have told me that people at trials and at demos are often brutally honest about how they feel about a product or brand. So continue to do those. And I think you'll find out pretty quickly where the customer is leaning.

1:04:53Okay, great. Yes. Well, I mean, again, we don't have enough time, but Helen, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Elevator Talk. Let's continue this conversation offline. And if there's anything we can do to help along your journey, if you have more questions, just reach out anytime. We'll do our best to answer them or connect you with folks who can. Thank you so much. It's great meeting you. Thanks, Helen. Oh, man, I want to cry because we've had such a good show. And I feel like the future of the food industry is in such good hands with so many amazing entrepreneurs who are doing really cool things, whether it be in terms of a particular category or packaging or ingredients, or just making sure that if there is a particular set that is ripe for innovation, that that innovation is actually happening right now with these small and emerging brands.

1:05:50So very, very exciting stuff. Mia, thank you so much for joining us again on Elevator Talk. We have to have you back soon. This is our last food focused episode of the year, but I'm definitely gonna be hitting you up in 2026, maybe more than once. Thank you so much. And to the entire team, you guys, everybody at NOSH is amazing. And to all of these amazing brands, to your point, I could go on for days. So thanks for having me. Yeah, well, you know, for folks who want to stay in touch with you, Mia, what's the best way to get in touch with you and the team? Very easily. Just shoot me an email. My email is just mia at gatherbrands.com.

1:06:29Perfect. Well, Mia, thank you once again for joining us on Elevator Talk. Thank you to all the amazing founders who joined us on the show today. For everyone watching or listening, we really appreciate it. And to our incredible team at BevNet, Nosh, and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone, I'm Ray Lateef, and we'll talk to you next time.

1:06:53Thank you.