Elevator Talk: Sous Casa, Love&Cookies, Caltein, Madres Churros, TofuGo

17:04Ray Latif:you know ideally three want to push it sure sure i would say minimum three because you have

17:10Allison Ball:very distinct categories um our best seller that i put in front of the camera that may may work all right is a frollo verde there's great pictures on our website of the the frollo verde which is just a chicken and rice burrito it's delicious uh it's it's always been um a fan favorite the breakfast sausage is the other fan favorite that really uh does quite well and then we also have vegan and vegetarian options that you really want to have up there because there's someone in the house that wants to have, you know, the chicken and breakfast burrito are not unhealthy. We do everything with fresh ingredients and make sure that it's made, you know, really, really well with good, good hearty ingredients, but, you know, a vegan burrito with kale and sweet potatoes, and that's, someone wants that, and it does, it's delicious, and it works well together.

17:57Allison Ball:So So certainly, you know, three at a minimum with our two more people like meat out there than veggie and vegan, I found. But having that option is also great.

18:08Ray Latif:One thing that I would have loved to see on your website is more information about the products themselves. So ingredients, nutrition panel, even your story. You know, you started, Mike, with a really lovely story about you and your wife and starting the business. and some of that, you know, building that out on your website when you've got time?

18:28Allison Ball:Well, yes. Unfortunately, our website was much, much more involved with the home delivery website. And we had a bit of an issue with Shopify that I'll just leave it at that. If we meet in New York and have more time, I'll tell you all about it. But we had to pretty much just cut and run and picked up our old, I mean, the website we have now is what we started with in COVID and we moved on from within six months. So it's unfortunate timing. We're in between websites right now, but great feedback and definitely should be able to get some of that on immediately. I thought that we had at least some of that, but I'll go audit the website and make sure we get more info on there.

19:08Love&Cookies:The other differentiation or the point of differentiation that I've seen in Tsukasa is that you have a grilled exterior on your burritos, which I don't see too, too often.

19:16Allison Ball:Well, so it's not grilled when you get it, but it is. Then there are very easy instructions on the bottom of the box on really the best way to eat it. So it's really made to be freezer to microwave to trash. Take it with you and go, great. If you really want to make it a really great high-class meal, microwave it and then take it out and put it in a pan with some oil for a minute on each side and just brown it up. And the tortilla really nicely browns up. And it makes it look like a very fancy and tastes like a very fancy, expensive burrito that is made in a professional kitchen. But it's really just a frozen burrito that's been pan-fried.

19:55Love&Cookies:So, I mean, that's the way people like them, right? Yeah. Oh, it's great. It's worth it.

19:59Allison Ball:It takes another couple minutes, but it's worth it. But again, I eat plenty of times fresh out of the microwave and a burrito on the go. It works great anyway.

20:10Love&Cookies:Well, we have lunch brought in on Tuesdays here at BevNet HQ. you. And I wasn't a huge fan of the lunch that was brought in today. I'll just leave it at that. I wish I met some Sucasa because my mouth is watering looking at your burritos and I've already had them before, so I know they're amazing. So please let me know where you're sold in the Boston area so I can go out and get some and for emergencies and beyond, obviously not just for emergencies, but yes.

20:33Allison Ball:Our website does have a find us page and we are in the Boston area. So I'd love to get you some frozen burritos. Thank you for mentioning that.

20:40Love&Cookies:I'm on my way. Mike, thank you so much for being on Elevator Talk. It's been a while. I know we've been planning this for a while, so I really appreciate you being on the show. Please stay in touch. If there's any way we can help and help you build your business and scale the way you want to scale, please let us know. Again, we're here to help as much as we are here to report on the news and talk about brands and who raised money and who's in this retailer and so on and so forth. If we can help in any small way along your journey, please let us know.

21:10Allison Ball:Great, great. Well, thank you so much, Trey, really appreciate it. And Ali, you've already helped. I've got great notes. And I certainly look forward to continuing the conversation. So I'll look for you both down the road. Thank you so much.

21:20Love&Cookies:I love when we have a great start to the show on Elevator Talk. We usually do. And Sucasa, what a fantastic brand.

21:26Allison Ball:Ever feel like your inventory is running the show? Belay Financial helps you take back control so you can see profits clearly and grow with confidence. Text TASTE to 55123 for your free inventory playbook download.

22:07Love&Cookies:Another fantastic brand is Love & Cookies. The founder is Ashley Cameron, and she is joining us right now. Ashley, thank you so much for being on Elevator Talk.

22:18Madres Churros:Ray and Allie, it's so great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

22:21Love&Cookies:I have Love & Cookies in my freezer at home. I've already made a bag. It's one of those things where it's hard, you know, like frozen cookies have been around for a really long time. Your frozen cookies are just so delicious. They're amazing. Tell us all about your brand when you started.

22:37Madres Churros:Well, thank you. I'm super glad to hear that we have a new fan. And, you know, Love & Cookies is here to be America's next favorite cookie. As you mentioned, like, cookies are not new. But what is new is the way that we're doing it, right? We are a pre-portioned frozen gourmet cookie dough that is found in your freezer section. It is made with all of the things that you want in your cookies and none of the things you don't. So that means we're doing all butter, no seed oil, unbleached flour, non-GMO chocolates, no adder preservatives and the biggest kicker no food die and so we're super excited about what that's going to bring we're elevating the way that consumers are going to have a cookie right you eat a cookie but if you're going to eat one might as well be a good one and that's what we're going for love and cookies was born truly out of a passion project my background was actually in health care i was a labor and delivery nurse prior to this but in 2019 my oldest son his name's Charlie, he got diagnosed with an acquired heart condition called Kawasaki disease.

23:33Madres Churros:And so through his treatment and his journey, we started baking as passion project and people started wanting to buy our cookies and it just kind of kept growing and growing. And then in 2022, we applied to HUB's quest for Texas best program here in Texas and ended up winning first place out of 600 SKUs and, um, holy sugar and butter. What was I going to do? Um, I was challenged with, I I'm getting thrown into CPG. And so we successfully launched into HUB that following year in July of 23. And so since then, I learned a lot, as you can imagine, it's been a wild ride. Feet were held to the fire from everything from at that point in time, we were self manufacturing no longer, but, and learning all the things CPG, but then we focused on really growing our brand, growing our brand awareness here in Texas.

24:25Madres Churros:And then last year in July, we expanded nationwide. So you can now find Love and Cookies nationwide at Sprouts. We're in Harris Teeter in the Southeast. We just launched about two weeks ago in Wegmans, which I know you're in Boston, so you can go to your local Wegmans and find us. We're on Thrive Market online. And most excitingly, I'm excited to tell you guys the first to know we're launching a Costco roadshow on Thursday in the LA region. So along with debuting some new packaging. So we're excited. And I'm excited to be here to talk to you today.

24:56Love&Cookies:So not much going on with you, Ashley. You're just kind of just chilling, selling some cookies, you know? Yeah. Okay. That's good. Now, in all seriousness, amazing stuff. Congratulations on all the traction you've had with Love & Cookies to this point. As I mentioned, they're fantastic. I do love Wegmans. It's one of my favorite retailers. And shout out to Thrive Market, who's co-founder and CEO we just featured on Taste Radio. His name is Nick Green. It's a really good episode. I highly recommend that you tune in. And I got to stop talking because I know Allie wants to ask you a lot of questions.

25:26Love&Cookies:Allie, take it away.

25:27Ray Latif:I have so many questions. And I want to say, of course, I do my homework before these episodes. And I love your website. I love your socials. I can see how much work you guys have put in over the past couple of years. It's evident. Really evident.

25:44Madres Churros:Thank you. Thank you.

25:46Ray Latif:One cookie at a time, Allie.

25:47Madres Churros:That's all it takes. One cookie at a time.

25:50Ray Latif:Okay. So do you, should we start with like the fun questions or the hard questions?

25:55Madres Churros:Throw it at me, girl, wherever you want to start. We got this. Yeah.

25:58Ray Latif:I was going to come in here and talk about the packaging. And I was like, the one thing I want changed is some things on the packaging. So tell, and you know, here you are, you've beaten me to it. So tell me about the packaging changes and what you're really excited about there.

26:13Madres Churros:Yeah. So great question. So one of the things that we love, I want to start with the color, right so historically the frozen category um sideway cardboard boxes a lot of whites a lot of that so one of the biggest brand differentiators is the bright colors like you put it behind the glass door bright fun colorful we've always loved the color things that we needed things that i didn't know and i've learned right um i we finally forked over the capital for better quality pictures right good i want to eat that cookie picture like give me all the yumminess on that cookie right um i think you're gonna think we did it we nailed it on that one and um i'll hold this up here so you can see so um also the call out you know we started this um brand and we were small mom and pop a lot of our cookies were given names like even though our chocolate chip cookie was also called the charlie cash because we were wanting to name it after friends and family who were super supportive of us during my son's illness but i've learned as wonderful and loving as that is, people in New York, what the heck is a Charlie Cash?

27:14Madres Churros:They don't know. So we had to really focus like the, what is it that the consumer is buying? Right. And also we want to call out all the good things about the brand. So yes, we're 100 % woman owned, right? We have all butter, no seed oil, non GMO chocolates, and no added preservatives and dyes. And so we just spent a lot of time kind of take away a lot of clutter, scale back and make it very clear. And that was their focus.

27:36Ray Latif:Great. Yeah, that was, that was going to be my advice. It's a little, it's a little busy on those packaging and I'm so happy that you upgraded the photography. I think that was the one thing that, you know, was lacking a bit. Okay. I'm also wondering about regions and what regions are performing best for you, why that is, or what's your hypothesis? And are you focusing on doubling down on the regions that are working well, or are you going to try to boost your slower regions?

28:09Madres Churros:We're going to do both because both are needed in certain capacities. So focus regions, obviously Texas is our home base. So Texas is where we are born and bred. Texans love Texas. So we're here to grow in the great state of Texas. But our most, like our hottest data, which will hence the Costco roadshow is California. California is a hot zone. I think that, you know, with the conversations in our country around our food is that, you know, we want, we want, I'll eat the cookie, but make it better for me, right? Take out all the junk that I don't need, take out all the preservatives. And so when you're speaking to a community that's been, I think, believing that for a long time, but now it's becoming more and more prevalent, that they're like, great, I can finally have something that I'm comfortable giving my kids.

28:54Madres Churros:I'm comfortable doing this. And so those are the regions that we are really seeing the growth a lot there. We are doubling down in California with regional demos. And because once people put it in their mouth, like the purchase rate is well over 95 % because it's just as right that it's so good. And people love it. And so that has worked. However, one of the challenges or things that we've realized is merchandising, which merchandising and frozen can be super hard because I don't have the luxury. not every retailer has an end cap, right? Not, I can't just go put it on like how beverage brands can put it on the end in a self-made stand, right?

29:32Madres Churros:I can't do that. And so, but what's happening as a newer brand is that the product gets put on the shelf initially, but maybe the store is not reordering it correctly or, and so it's not getting pulled and that's the gap that we're seeing. And so we are deploying merchandising to just kind of blitz and fill that gap to make sure that it's coming correctly from the distributor to the retail shelf to ensure that it's been also supported with adequate TPRs, because that's how in frozen, we're going to get people to pull the product off the shelf.

30:01Ray Latif:Totally. And you know, what I remember is my grocery team doesn't want to spend a lot of time in the frozen back stock. It's really cold, you know, like you bundle up, you get in that like walk-in freezer and we're searching as fast as we can for product. But often, oftentimes, especially frozen frozen refrigerated gosh i mean name the category that product sits in back stock and doesn't get merchandised on the shelf simply because that stocker is freezing cold trying to like get their job done really fast actually we had a brand this was oh my god probably almost 20 years ago who gave our grocery team really high quality freezer gloves that were branded with their logo.

30:49Ray Latif:And they were incredible because they actually like helped my team, like be really comfy when they were in the freezer. And I literally I went into buy right. I don't know, a couple weeks ago, and I saw someone, a grocery stocker wearing those branded gloves that ice cream brand has since gone out of business, like they're not even around anymore. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, I mean, literally, like 18 years later, and those silly freezer gloves are still in rotation.

31:17Madres Churros:Hey, I actually, we actually just bought a whole bunch of them because I use them in my own freezer. Cause I'm like, I hate going through my own freezer at home and they are the best gift. And especially when people are, you know, grown men walking around with hot pink love and cookies gloves. I mean, you're on it. It's great. I love it. I love it.

31:33Love&Cookies:Ashley, um, I, with the time we have left, I want to talk about your price point, um, on your website, you're 10 99 for, per pouch. Is that the same price at retail?

31:42Madres Churros:No, it's not. So, you know, frozen DTC shipping has its challenges. We have to support that insulated box, dry ice, frozen packaging. So at grocery shelves, it's$9.99 for an eight-count pack.

31:53Love&Cookies:And given the price point, is it something where you're finding customers of the brand are buying it as a sort of special treat? Or is it more sort of every couple of weeks? What's the frequency of their buying?

32:07Madres Churros:so i think initially they try it as a special treat because given the price point and then i think once they taste it it's becoming oh we're going to repeat purchase this every couple weeks every month um you know i think the price definitely i don't think i know the price definitely reflects the quality of the ingredients right um and so as you once you taste it you understand you look the how clean and simple the ingredients are you're like oh yeah i'll pay 9.99 for that pack of cookies basically a dollar 25 of a cookie and i'm getting it we are the the largest format cookie size on the market currently right now.

32:37Madres Churros:So it's an ounce and a half full ounces bakery style cookies. And there's a tremendous amount of value in that given those things.

32:43Love&Cookies:I would agree. It's a really great tasting cookie. You can taste the quality in each one. And the, the instructions on the back of your chocolate chip cookie one are just perfect because I think the third, I don't know if it's a recommendation or just part of the preparation preparation list is sprinkle with sea salt, which is just, okay, you put me over the top there. I'm going to start crying. It was so good.

33:09Madres Churros:Tears of joy. And you can always remember that it makes you remember cookies are always a good idea.

33:14Love&Cookies:Tears of love, love and cookies. Great name. Really enjoyed speaking with you, Ashley. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Really rooting for you and excited to hear about where the burn goes next. Please let us know. We want to write about it. We want to talk about it. We want to see how you're doing.

33:28Madres Churros:Well, thank you guys so much. It was a joy.

33:31Love&Cookies:All right. Outstanding stuff. Another cookie brand. Up next, we have Aaron Sager, who is the founder of Calteen. Aaron, it's so great to see you again. So good to see you again. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, I saw you in January in San Diego at the Winter Fancy Fair. And I got to admit, I was a little skeptical because I didn't know how protein cookies would taste, especially protein cookies that look like yours. And I've been into one. I'm like, damn, you have something here. Tell us all about Calteen, the origins of the brand, where you are right now. Sure.

34:06Caltein:So my name is Aaron. I'm the founder of Calteen. I used to work at SpaceX and actually left SpaceX because I found protein bars. While they promise nutrition, they rarely deliver on taste and decided that I would give it a shot. I ate a lot of shortbread cookies and remembered first principles in my engineering courses that the simplest solution is the best solution. So I made a shortbread cookie that has 20 grams of protein, six simple ingredients. And as you just said, like they're very tasty. What's interesting is like we started in the gym channel, getting those stocked in a bunch of New York City's boutique gyms.

34:51Caltein:I got into retail after that. And now we're exploring some institutional plays with like hospital nutrition teams, as well as like some Division I athletics programs at universities. So the application is pretty wide. Everyone wants protein. Everyone eats cookies. It's just, can it taste good and use ingredients that are simple? And the answer is yes.

35:15Love&Cookies:Protein, probably the hottest ingredient. in, I don't know, probably for the last 18 months, it's only going to get hotter before it all comes down like a house of carrots. No, I'm just kidding. I just feel like the proteinification of CPG is getting to its peak at this point. As I mentioned, I really enjoyed eating your cookies, and I think you've got something, which is why I'm so happy you're on the show. Ali, you know, at a time when people want indulgence, they want functionality, they They want both and they want everything to be perfect. You know, how would you advise Aaron on the next steps in getting more people to try Kelting?

35:54Love&Cookies:As he mentioned, he outlined a go-to-market strategy and a few places where he thinks he could go for the brand. I'd just love to hear your feedback and your thoughts on that strategy.

36:03Ray Latif:Yeah, you know, Aaron, I think it comes down to margin and profitability. Where can you, where are you finding that intersection of the people who love and want and will pay for your product and the wholesale channels that have those people shopping or consuming in them, right? And so you're exploring here, you said gyms. I love it. I love it when brands like have such a niche go-to-market strategy, gyms, retail, and then institution. Do you have a sense of which is going to be the easiest and the most profitable for you this year?

36:42Caltein:That's a great question. And I'll let you know when I figure that out. But I think for right now, the gyms have such high velocity and I can go direct with so many of them. it's just, you know, it's very profitable. However, it's such a fragmented channel. You really have to like hit the ground and the pavement, reach out to each gym. But once you're locked in, like they just sell. And I think it's because my product is so good. People have been looking for a product like mine. Grocery stores, we've been doing well there. And we're talking with some distributors currently, but still like I'm a new founder.

37:20Caltein:Like I have a lot to learn. And I read enough LinkedIn posts that are pretty terrifying to be honest of saying, like, I was expecting to get this much money from my invoice and then they get a fraction of that. So I'm trying to avoid that. And then the institutions, once again, they just do huge volume. It's just you need a warm intro sometime. So I'm leveraging my network to get into those places. Yeah.

37:48Ray Latif:And Aaron, I'm so happy that you have your wits about you when considering distribution, because so often that's the thing that can kill a brand, especially as you're thinking about your cash flow. And are you producing yourself or co-packing?

38:05Caltein:We self-produce. I have a nice little team that I built in Queens, New York.

38:10Ray Latif:Great. Great.

38:11Caltein:We listened to Hamilton the last production day, so it's very fun.

38:16Ray Latif:I like that. That sounds like you're building a great company. Yeah, it's a lot of fun on production days.

38:21Caltein:But I mean, at some point, we will need to find a co-packer and we're doing that search right now.

38:26Ray Latif:Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the thing that kills early stage brands is cashflow. So thinking about, you know, distribution, when you do move to that co-packer, like, and you're, everybody's paying on net 90, how the heck are you going to pay for that next production run? And where's the margin left over for promotions and paying your team and paying yourself, Aaron, and all of that sort of stuff. So the slower you can, in a way, the slower you can go on layering in each of those expenses, the better to some extent.

38:56Caltein:There's a lot of patience required when building a brand because there are some opportunities that have been presented to us that like are explosive and seem like very LinkedIn post worthy, if you know what I mean. But, you know, the risk that I have to mitigate to make it work and like work well is hard. so there's slower opportunities but you know i at the same time think the the brand needs to to grow at a certain rate to i don't know to be healthy have longevity um i don't want competitors to do what i'm doing good luck i spent six months in my apartment doing over a thousand tests to figure out how to make my ingredients which are so simple do what i needed it to do to taste so delicious.

39:43Ray Latif:Yeah, I wish every founder had the self-restraint that I hear from you, Erin, and not just trying to build that brand that looks good on LinkedIn. It's really challenging. And if we're just doing the things for the vanity metrics and the LinkedIn posts, it's the quickest way to run yourself into the ground. I do have a question though, a couple a couple of questions. So we think about this, you know, protein snack, protein cookie category, protein baked goods, and there's a lot coming to the market. I'm sure even, you know, in the past six months, you've seen this influx. So as you're pitching to these wholesale accounts, what, what is it that makes your brand more attractive than the other guy pitching an hour after you?

40:33Caltein:I love talking about protein. We have the shortest ingredient list for anything with 20 grams of protein. There's nothing that comes close. And if you think about it, you can get everything we use at the grocery store. Why? Because when I started, I went to the grocery store and bought stuff only sold there. We are the only high protein shortbread cookie. There's other protein cookies, but they're not a shortbread cookie. So that means we taste better because we use real butter. Our texture is crispy. Crispy is lacking in the protein space. So you get dense, you get hard, you get chewy, stuck in your teeth, yoga mat texture, none of that with us.

41:12Caltein:So we're just a more clean, natural, better tasting product. And I think it's when people try it. As Ray was kind of saying, like there's so much skepticism when you hear protein. And I think it's the brands that are actually delivering on taste and experience that are the ones that are going to be here after the gold rush dries up. And frankly, I started this before the protein gold rush, we'll call it. I'm not trying to catch trends or fads. I'm here to stay because this is what I needed 10 years ago, and I'm making it now.

41:45Ray Latif:Yeah. And Aaron, I would say when you think about, I'm always coming at it from the perspective of the wholesale buyer. When I think about that pitch, I'm like, that's a beautiful pitch when you're speaking direct to consumer, right? For that person who's actually eating the shortbread cookies, they want to know. Six ingredients, clean protein, tastes good, crispy texture, all of that is awesome. And for that wholesale buyer, we really want to pitch through the lens of how are you going to help your category win? So every founder that's pitching, every brand that's pitching is like, my product tastes great.

42:17Ray Latif:We use great ingredients. We spent so long developing our product. And so we really want to focus on, okay, cool, Aaron. And what does it do for the buyer? Are you bringing higher sales? Are you bringing more margin? Are you bringing a new consumer to the category? Are you bringing, are you increasing the basket average in the store? Like, what are you doing that helps that wholesale buyer meet their goals? So I just add that into your pitch and see if you can't, like, close a little bit faster and get more of the, yeah, the yeses sooner.

42:49Caltein:Well, I appreciate that feedback.

42:51Love&Cookies:Yeah, I think you're spot on, Allie. You know, retail buyers want to know, okay, is this going to sell more product than my existing product on shelf? You know, how you make more money for me, because at the end of the day, that's what the retailers are trying to do, the retail buyers. Aaron, as I mentioned, I think your product tastes amazing. I think maybe enhancing the fact that it does taste so good in whatever marketing form you can, whether it be the front of pack or in your social posts or what have you, I think is really important because I didn't get that immediately when I first saw your packaging, but I got it as soon as I tasted it.

43:28Love&Cookies:So I think in demos, yeah, you'll get people. But when people just see the bag on the shelf or on your website or in an ad, they might not get it as quickly. So I'm not sure what the answer is, but because your products do taste so good, I would highlight that as much as you can, as best as you can. And the other thing I would say is that you nailed it when you talked about, you know, protein being this huge trend right now, but nothing tasting as amazing as it should. In fact, our roundup from Expo West was published a couple of days ago. And the title of the podcast is Protein Dominates, But Flavor Decides.

44:06Love&Cookies:And it really does. At the end of the day, you can have the most functionally amazing, beneficial product out there. But if it doesn't taste good, no one's going to buy it. So and I and again, calatine tastes amazing. And I think you've really got something. So thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk today. I'm really happy that we had you on the show. Are you going to be at Fancy Food in New York?

44:30Caltein:Yes, we're exhibiting in Debut District. So please come try these shortbread cookies that are high protein. And if I could shout out, we're in Happier Grocery now. We sold out after our first week. And when we restock, please come get some more. There you go.

44:46Love&Cookies:Aaron, thank you so much once again for being on Elevator Talk.

44:49Caltein:Thank you.

44:50Love&Cookies:All right. Another brand that makes some tremendous products. That's Madre's Churros. The founder is Janae Gutierrez. Janae, it's great to see you.

45:01Sous Casa:Aloha. Hola.

45:03Love&Cookies:Aloha indeed. Janae is calling all the way from Honolulu, Hawaii. Is that right? Yes. Yes, I am. Oahu. It's bright and early over here. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I met you at the Winter Fancy Fair as well. And your brand was one of the most striking because, A, I don't see too many churro products on the market. And B, your packaging is not what you would typically expect to see a product like this. And I think all of it came together in this beautiful package that I was really impressed with. with. There it is right there. Madres Churros. Tell us about how you started and where the brand is right today.

45:43Sous Casa:Yes. Thank you for having me, by the way. I really appreciate it. So yeah, it started, I was backpacking through Mexico. My family is from Mexico. So I was backpacking and I ate my way through, ate a lot of churros at that point. I realized when I got back home, I just kept having stomach aches and I found out that I had a high gluten intolerance. So all those lovely churros I ate would end up hurting my stomach. So I went in the kitchen and I realized how much I missed eating churros when I got back home in San Diego. That's where I was living at the time. And I just thought, well, I am definitely not going to say no to churros.

46:30Sous Casa:I'm going to make my own. So I went in the kitchen, worked many hours to create what I have today, ate a lot of churros, and I wanted something that didn't compromise texture or taste because I was going into a whole new world of eating gluten-free. And I just kept running into the same problem that a lot of products have like cardboard texture or it just doesn't taste good. I mean, there are some brands that they hit it right on the nail. I'm like, this tastes exactly what I want it to taste like. So, yeah, that's when I started Madres. I actually started in San Diego. I was in three different farmer's markets, frying on site for people.

47:13Sous Casa:And I found this joy of seeing people's faces that had celiac or gluten intolerances or that they were vegan because my churros are vegan as well. That they were able to eat a churro again. I was like, wow, this is like what I want to do. And I feel like I was made to make this. And the pandemic hit. So six months after being open, I just started creating the concept like maybe I should freeze it and people can air fry it. Because that's when the air fryers started happening, that movement. And yeah, the pandemic hit. I had to close shop in 2020. I decided to move to Hawaii because my mom lives here.

47:57Sous Casa:She's lived here for 12 years. Took a break. I burnt myself out working three markets a week. And from there, I mean, four years later, I decided to restart Madres. And using local ag, I created a poi churro because I do have a passion of supporting local farmers in some way or capacity. And yeah, now here I am. I went through a program called Aina Tumakeke here on Island that kind of helped me wrap my head around CPG products and how to pitch to buyers and think about my packaging.

48:37Love&Cookies:Janae, I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I love the taste of your product. I think what got me to come to your booth or at least to start talking to you was your packaging, which it comes in this ice cream pint, essentially. and then when you actually taste the product it's just okay you're sold twice you're sold in the packaging then you're sold in the product itself and I love that your story is one that others share as well right your reason for being is that you love this product you love churros but you can't eat them so I've got to create my own and I have a feeling you're not certainly not the only one but this is also the almost a first of its kind Allie have you seen a product like this out there?

49:18Ray Latif:No, I'm like, maybe I don't, I don't know. I've certainly seen other brands like alternative desserts use ice cream pints in the freezer. And I've seen the pros and cons of that.

49:33Sous Casa:Oh, I'm starting to see them as well. Yeah.

49:35Ray Latif:Well, that was my big question here. Like what, what's going on with the packaging? And especially because that like, frankly, the beautiful churro image that you have kind of looks like soft serve. And so like, is there, is there confusion on the shelf? I'm guessing yes. And how are you overcoming that? So now that I'm in eight stores

49:55Sous Casa:here in Oahu, well, let me start off by saying I intentionally put in the ice cream container for two reasons. One, I wanted a package where somebody can reutilize it by putting the churros back in, shaking it up with the cinnamon sugar packet that comes inside, putting it in, putting their ice cream inside. That was number one. Number two, I wanted it because I wanted it in the ice cream section because I think churros and ice cream go together. So I was like, maybe I should just put in a pint size and then eventually I'll grow and put them in bigger like tubs because I wanted them to place it in that section.

50:32Sous Casa:The problem that I'm running into, people think it's ice cream. and I'm currently trying to figure out how to I want to say like educate people like it's not ice cream it's churros don't be don't be misled you know um so I'm currently thinking and I would love your honest opinion I'm thinking of doing call outs on the on the glass window of like little churros and make sure that it stands out. Demos have helped a lot. Whenever I do demos, people just buy them quickly because they're like, Oh my God, I thought that was ice cream. This is really good. I'll get this with my ice cream. So yeah, I feel like those are the only two things.

51:15Sous Casa:Social media. I've been trying to work on a social media plan, a strategy of how to kind of keep calling it out. Like we're not ice cream, we're not ice cream, but But yeah, I'm open to ideas.

51:27Ray Latif:Freezer clings. Absolutely. I think great idea. And call outs on the packaging and such. Obviously, demos are great. Social media is great. But you're not there to demo 24-7. So we really have to think about when the product needs to sell itself behind a freezer door. How are we going to do that? And, you know, I don't say this lightly, but it'll be really interesting to see if eventually you move to a pouch. I don't know. Or like maybe a different size, like a different shape container, but then that doesn't like fit with the pints. And I don't know. You know, this is this is my million dollar question, too.

52:10Sous Casa:I'm like trying to reinvent something. I feel like I'm willing to take the ride for it for at least a year, at least try to push it because I really love this container. However, I am also, I've heard other CPG products kind of switching kind of routes of packaging just because of issues that they've run into. So I'm open to it. I'm not going to say I'm not, but I'm really pushing for it.

52:38Ray Latif:I'd also argue. Yeah. So we worked with a brand that did chocolate covered frozen grapes, like, I don't know, probably 12 years ago, 13 years ago, they're still around. And they do them in pint containers. And we went through this whole, this exact issue. And the best they were like, okay, this is a, it's a blessing and a curse. Right. And I think, you know, Janae, you're sitting here with the same exact challenge. It's a blessing and a curse. I wonder if you're actually pushing to be merchandised away from the ice cream. And I know you first said like, oh, I want to be like with those other pints, but that's where the confusion is happening.

53:18Ray Latif:And what if one tiny step that doesn't require you to like redo everything right now is to actually be merchandised with the novelties, you know, even next to like the ice cream bars or mochi or like anything like that. even the like frozen fruit, chocolate covered frozen fruit, where you're not like literally in the wall of ice cream. That might be the happy medium for now. I don't know. Ray, what do you think?

53:43Love&Cookies:You know, I think for me, someone who's walking a trade show and they see this type of package and they realize there's churros in there instead of ice cream. That was what really interested me. I would say that at the end of the day, you want people to see your product and see through the glass and be excited by it. I think it's difficult because churros aren't necessarily something you expect to see at all, I think, in the freezer case or at all in any part of the store. So however, whatever package you have, I think it really needs to scream churros. It needs to scream indulgence and it needs to scream easy, right?

54:28Love&Cookies:Because I think people might not even know that it's ready to heat. Maybe someone thinks, oh, you have to put it in a fryer.

54:39Ray Latif:Right. As opposed to just using air fryer. Right. The straw dough or whatever. And you do say just heat, then eat right on the front. And I think that's great. But that could even be called out more. Yeah. Right. I think you're right there. Yeah, but I mean, it remains to be seen.

54:53Love&Cookies:I think at the end of the day, you'll learn a lot from your retailers about how the product performs and get some feedback from your buyers and from the end consumers about whether it was as striking as it needs to be on shelf. So gain as much, pull up as much information as you can, anecdotal, analytical data as you can from those stores that you're in. Why? Because that is really applicable or can be very applicable to your next retailer and those beyond that as well. But again, I think in some ways you're talking to Ali and me or we're talking as consumers as much as we are talking about industry folks.

55:34Love&Cookies:And so the more consumers you speak with, I think you'll have a better sense of how they perceive the product on shelf and how they see it as fitting into their shopping cart.

55:44Sous Casa:Yes, absolutely. And I appreciate all the feedback. Jack definitely wrote a lot of notes today.

55:51Love&Cookies:Well, that's great. And I'm sure most of them are coming from Ali. I'm just offering my two cents, you know, whenever I can. But Janae, thank you so much for joining us on Elevator Talk today. I'm really excited for your brand. I really am. I think your logo is tremendous. I think, again, this is a brand and a product that we haven't necessarily seen before. And I just see, I don't know, I see this as being like a...

56:11Sous Casa:I'm trying to reinvent the churro, bring it back. I want everybody to have one in a freezer.

56:16Love&Cookies:You're doing it. I also see some Instagram, TikTok blowing up happening at some point. So keep at it and let us know if we can help in any way. Thank you so much. Mahalo, guys.

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57:13Love&Cookies:All right, our final guest for this episode of Elevator Talk is Caroline Day, who is the founder of Tofu Go. Caroline, it's great to see you.

57:22TofuGo:Nice to meet you. I'm Caroline, the founder of Tofu Go Snacks. We're savory protein snacks made of tofu with flavors like soy barbecue and spicy chili, the flavors I grew up with. We have 12 grams of protein and zero sugar.

57:35Love&Cookies:This is the one brand I haven't tried yet, but it is so interesting. I have never come across a sweet slash savory. I mean, it almost seems like there's a little bit of both going on right now. Product, which is kind of interesting. Like you describe it as a savory protein snack, but what's the, in terms of texture and flavor, is it as simple as this is like a snackable tofu with soy or spicy chili, depending on variety?

58:07TofuGo:Yes. So the soy barbecue, it's soy sauce and spicy chili is authentic Sichuan peppercorn. And it comes with actually three of these individual pouch, which is self-sable for nine months. And we're launching March 18th with products on your way. So we're very, very needing the space, bringing more innovation to the tofu category.

58:25Love&Cookies:Very cool. And so where in store do you expect them to be merchandised?

58:28TofuGo:I expect them to be in line with other savory protein snacks like jerky, chips, or in the charcoal aisle for impulse spot.

58:36Love&Cookies:Okay. This show is amazing. This episode in particular, we've got so many really great concepts. Allie, I'm so glad that you're here with us. You can offer some insights and feedback on how these founders can help their brand scale because this one in particular, I think is going to get a lot of questions from retail buyers. The packaging is amazing. The concept is really cool, but it's going to get a lot of questions. And you're the person who's going to start asking those questions, I know.

59:05Ray Latif:Yeah. And I just want to say, Caroline, I am stoked on this brand. I was, you know, on your Instagram, on your website. And I was like, oh, this is, I'm putting my money on this. This is, this is exciting to me. I can tell how much you've invested in your, in your brand already. and I've got some questions. So it's the three individual ones in that bigger pouch. So that's what we're seeing there. Okay. Yes.

59:32TofuGo:So when you open one pouch, it comes with three and they're very cute with our little tofu icon as well. So people love the packaging. People love how convenient it is. We have a lot of early interest from retailers, especially they love the fact it's nine months child stable comparing to regular tofu, which is a lot shorter and has to be refrigerated.

59:50Ray Latif:Yep, totally. Yeah. So, Ray, you asked my question, like, where does it go? I'm imagining like, are we putting it on clip strips next to the beef jerky? Are we putting it like literally with the protein bars, like the clip bars and, you know, the midday squares? Are we putting it in the fridge because that's where people are looking for snacks like this, even though it is shelf stable? Like, where the heck is it going? So, Caroline, do you have data yet? Do you have retail accounts and info on where it's best performing or not yet?

1:00:27TofuGo:So we're launching in the week primarily on Shopify site. With earlier retail interest, they did express interesting testing and trial. And I think that for innovative products like this, we need to test and trial to see what performs best. But with the flavor profile, you know, people are looking for more savory. So likely in the beef jerky or protein chips, they find our product. with the Clif Bar, Arler protein bar, they tend to be more sweet and dessert-like. Yes.

1:00:52Love&Cookies:Can I ask you a question, Allie? I just wanted to interject because you were asking about merchandising. I was asking about merchandising. And I think this always comes up with founders when they are talking to those managers. How do you convince them to put the product where you think it's going to perform best? Is there an approach that you think is really effective?

1:01:09Ray Latif:Yeah, and it's a delicate balance here, right? Because if a founder came to me and was like, Allie, here's my brand. I want you to merchandise me in XYZ section. I'd be like, you're not the expert in my store. You don't know me. And so I always say, I want founders to lead with data. And it's a little tricky here because we don't have the data yet. But as soon as you do, what we want to say is, okay, so pitch into a new account. We find that when our snacks are merchandised on a clip strip on the end cap, we sell, making this up, 24 units a week, as opposed to when we're merchandised, you know, in the grab and go section next to the snack mix and nuts, we sell seven units a week, right?

1:02:06Ray Latif:And so like presenting it again with numbers, with data, and recognizing that you and the buyer have the same goals, higher sales. Everybody has the same goals here. So when you can work together towards that goal, you both win. So really presenting it like, you know, this is how we're going to win together. This is how we're going to make the highest sales. And here's the data that proves it rather than just being like, you know, we'd love to be merchandised next to the beef jerky. You and everybody else. Yeah, I love that feedback.

1:02:39Love&Cookies:I mean, it's a great question. And I think the other big question is, how does this taste? I think, you know, how do you convince that consumer to try this product? I know everyone's going to say demos, but as you pointed out, Al, you can't be everywhere all at once. So for a brand new product like this, for a concept that seems to be really innovative and different almost in a way that could be to the detriment of trial. What's your suggestion on how to get people excited about this enough so that they try it?

1:03:10Ray Latif:If you are going retail first, I would be really bullish on staff education. So I always think about turning the people at the store level into mini salespeople for your brand. So you want to make sure that everyone there who like is like near your product has tried it, knows your founder story, knows that you are a woman owned company. And so they can say like, oh, my God, we just got this new brand in. You know, have you tried it yet? Here it is. So like really focusing at the beginning on turning the store staff members into evangelists for your brand. I think that that's one of the like most under tapped ways to do it.

1:03:56Ray Latif:And then also just thinking about like inexpensive ways, making sure that you have shelf talkers. And I know that's so basic and like many stores don't want your shelf talkers, but I've seen your design. You know, you've, you've got great eye, Caroline. I know that you can design a shelf talker. That's really going to capture attention to your product line, you know, from three feet away, from one feet away and making sure that you're just, doing those like really basic foundational things to help draw attention to your product on the shelf. And then of course we can throw money at promotions.

1:04:30Ray Latif:Of course, you know, we can do Instacart ads, we can do coupons, we can do all that sort of stuff, but I would just make sure that you've got the like less expensive free things happening first in your, in your key retailers. Thank you. I appreciate that feedback. Yeah. What else did I miss something, right?

1:04:50Love&Cookies:No, I think you answered my question. I thought it was great. I think the more people you can touch in store, the better off you can get people aware of and excited about what you're doing. And again, I've used that term a number of times, but it's really important. You can't just be on shelf and expect people to love your brand and love your product. As great as your packaging is, as great as your flavor might be, it's really about getting everyone to want to talk about what you're doing. And, you know, it's interesting when I was at Expo, I felt like maybe I could be wrong. Maybe I was just reading into things a little bit too much.

1:05:25Love&Cookies:I feel like soy was kind of making a little bit of a comeback. I feel like more people are looking at soy and saying, hey, you know what? This could be for me.

1:05:34Ray Latif:Which is kind of ridiculous to say, right? Given that soy is, you know, centuries old ingredient.

1:05:43Love&Cookies:Yeah, but there was a little bit of backlash, right?

1:05:45Ray Latif:Yeah, I totally agree.

1:05:47Love&Cookies:Yeah, but now, like I said, I think, you know, people are becoming more comfortable with and excited about soy. I mean, Caroline, are you sensing that as well?

1:05:55TofuGo:Totally. I actually was at XOS and we had really great interest from buyers and founders and press about how innovative Tofu Go is. I think 2025 is a really big year for protein and 2026 is going to be a really big year for where the protein derives from. You know, is it whole foods? Is it artificial ingredients? So for tofu, we actually just use tofu. food. We press it, remove the water at the soft end. We don't add additional protein isolate, which we are really excited about is that just whole foods, no sugar.

1:06:24Ray Latif:Yeah. I think you're spot on. Even, I don't know, Ray, last year we were talking with beverage brands about protein sourcing and how important, like once we get through this big boom of protein, where are people sourcing it from and how effective is it for the end user? I'm also, I want to make sure I get to say this one piece. I think one of the challenges that you're going to have is explaining that it's savory, right? And even looking at that hero image on your website, there's chocolate hearts on there. It's like really like kind of vibey. And I'm like, this leans a little bit sweet. And I think Ray said that at the beginning too, right?

1:07:03Ray Latif:You're toe in the line, sweet, savory. And so really thinking about how do people know that it's a savory experience. I think on shelf, it's easier because they're not looking at the whole, the brand as a whole, but really making sure that you're aware of that and positioning yourself as savory through and through.

1:07:20TofuGo:Totally.

1:07:22Love&Cookies:Caroline, has Andrea Hernandez from Snackshot reached out yet?

1:07:27TofuGo:Not yet, but we have a lot of other press interest in covering the Tofugou story, but definitely happy to send samples to all of you, Ali and Ray and also Andrea.

1:07:37Love&Cookies:Thank you very much. I would highly recommend you get in touch with her because this seems like it's right up her alley. Totally. And it's right up our alley, too. Clearly, we're really excited about what you're doing, really excited for the future of this brand. And just let us know how things are going. Once you get onto market, it's really exciting. But as we've pointed out a number of times, getting on shelf is the easy part. Everything else that comes after is the tough part. So if there are any folks that we can make introductions to or, you know, any questions that you might want an answer to, even if we don't know the answer, we'll try to find someone to give you one.

1:08:14Love&Cookies:So please just stay in touch.

1:08:15TofuGo:I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

1:08:17Love&Cookies:Thank you so much. And thanks so much for being on Elevator Talk today. Really appreciate it. Well, I got to tell you, Ali, you know, in terms of founders, in terms of brands, in terms of having you on the show, I love every episode of Elevator Talk. this is a standout. This has been a really, really good episode. I think it just shows the breadth of innovation in established categories and ones that founders are creating. And I think it's the reason why we're so excited about this industry is because people are changing things one day at a time. And the truth is, yes, this is a tough business.

1:08:55Love&Cookies:And yes, there are a lot of brands that aren't going to make it. But the ones that do make it, the rewards are great. And the end benefit is that more people get to eat healthier, more people get to eat innovative ingredients. And in general, it's helping the industry change one product, one brand at a time.

1:09:14Ray Latif:Yes, I totally agree. I think this is my third time on Elevator Talk. And this group was really exciting to me. Yeah, really, really exciting to see what's up and coming.

1:09:26Love&Cookies:Yes. And clearly, they liked what you had to say. And I think our listeners and viewers like what you have to say as well. What is the best way to get in touch with you, Allie? What's the easiest way to get in touch with you?

1:09:36Ray Latif:Yeah, so I hang out on Instagram the most. I know y 'all are like LinkedIn people, but like I like hanging out on Instagram. So I'm at foodbizwhiz on Instagram. Come and say hi if you're listening to this. And then again, come and join our Wholesale Week. Day three of Wholesale Week is our Brave Pitch Framework, where you take my Brave Score your assessment on buyer pitching, and I'll give you precise feedback on where you need to improve your buyer pitch. So that could be really helpful for listeners. So again, find Wholesale Week. You can find it on my Instagram. You can find it on foodbizwhiz.com.

1:10:08Ray Latif:We'd love to have you in there. We start on Monday the 16th.

1:10:11Love&Cookies:And if it's not clear already, Allie's willing to give it to you straight in a really constructive way. No, I'm serious. This is important because a lot of early stage founders are getting feedback from their friends and family and everyone's going to be, oh, this is fantastic. Everything's going to sound like roses or smell like roses or whatever the saying is. And sometimes you definitely need to hear feedback that is a little uncomfortable, but helpful in getting you to the next stage of your brand, helping you scale your business because everyone falls in the same traps and the same problems.

1:10:43Love&Cookies:And you just need someone who's experienced to be able to tell you, here's what you need to avoid and here's how you avoid it. So thank you so much, Allie, for everything you do for this industry. I would have you back on the show tomorrow, but I'd make other people jealous that they couldn't co-host, but I got it. We got to have you back soon.

1:11:01Ray Latif:Yeah. When do I get to be like the most frequent guest on elevator talk?

1:11:06Love&Cookies:I think, I think we've had folks that have been on the show five times already, but that's since like 2020. So I think you, you first joined the show, what, 2024 or so?

1:11:15Ray Latif:Yeah, I think 24.

1:11:16Love&Cookies:Yeah. So we've had hosts since 2020. So we just got to just, just, just tell me when you want to be on and you'll be on. I'll be back in a couple of months. There you go. Thank you so much, Ray.

1:11:27Ray Latif:This was a pleasure.

1:11:28Love&Cookies:Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you to all the entrepreneurs who joined us. You people are amazing. Thank you to everyone watching or listening. And thanks to our amazing team at BevNet, Nosh, and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone. I'm Ray Lateef, and we'll talk to you next time.