Evaluating Market Readiness Vs. Market Potential. It's Tough.

0:10Hello and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-host for this episode, Melissa Traverse and Mike Schneider. Mike, how's it going? Living the dream, Ray. Every day. Still buzzing from BevNet Live. Yeah. Looking forward to the next one. I know. You're all alone in the studio today for reasons beyond our control. We had to make some adjustments to our setups today, and I feel bad. You're all by yourself. No Craven, no ray. I don't know. It's just like that time I was in the sunken place.

0:50You mean when you were out of your mind? Yes. Okay. Balls out of my mind. Yeah. That's what the kids say today. Melissa, how are you? I'm great. I'm, uh, I'm sitting in my office and I don't feel like I'm in a sunken place, which is really great. That is a good thing. Yeah. You were in a very high place. I I'm, I'm jelly. So I'm going to say like another thing the kids say today, I was jelly to hear that you went to the top of the Empire State Building after BevNet Live. You and, was it Farron? You and Farron went together? Farron and I went to the top of the Empire State Building. I think it was a seven minute walk from our hotel and we figured, why not?

1:27Let's do a fun touristy thing. And it was so much fun. And, you know, as you might imagine, the view from up there is pretty fantastic. So I highly recommend it to anybody who hasn't done that. Nice. I hear the view eight. Oh, the view eight. Okay, yes. Now we're getting out of hand here. We're getting out of control. But I like it. Well done. Nice reference. No cap. Did you lean your head against the glass like Ferris Bueller and his friends? I did not do that, but I did like kind of try and lean my head over the sort of barrier thing to see down. But you can't because they have that, like, you know, the thing that makes it so that you can't jump off the Empire State Building, which would take somebody back to the sunken place for good.

2:12Like you would never leave that sunken place. You would sink into the sidewalk. That's not a pleasant thought. I'm a little worried about doing something like that. So anyway, how much does it cost to go up there, by the way? I think it was like 50 bucks. Fifty dollars? Yeah, 50 bucks. I know when you work in all the taxes and everything. So I looked up the tickets and Farron asked how much it was. And I think I said$45. She thought I said$5. So she was like, great, let's do it. And I was like, well, if Farron wants to do it for 45 bucks, let's do it. And then she was surprised that it was that much.

2:45But I would still say it was worth it. Well, so it's kind of like$45. Two things. One to be clear, Farron, the Farron we're referring to is Farron Salnikar, who is our spirits editor for BevNet. She does an amazing job. If you want to know anything about what's going on in the world of distilled spirits, beverage, alcohol, pay attention to what she's writing because she's a pretty amazing reporter and journalist as it relates to that industry. So amazing, Ray, that she just goes by the name Farron, just like, you know, Ronaldinho or someone like that. Prince, exactly. Madonna. There you go, Farron.

3:22Also, I just want to make sure, and I just got a note from Kathy about this because she listens in to our recordings. Kathy from HR? Yes, Kathy, who was our CFO. And I'm reading directly from the Slack message here. tell Melissa that if she tries to expense the visit to the Empire State Building, she'll have a very serious meeting with me. So I don't know what to tell you. Guys, I'm going to need to duck out for a second and amend my expensive high report. Retract. Retract immediately. Don't worry, Melissa. She's going to have a very serious meeting with Ray and Stern anyway. They always go out for some super fancy dinner that, you know what, they usually invite you to.

4:05And I've been invited like once. I don't think I'm ever going to be invited back. I only got one invite. I think I'm ready for another one. Me too. You know, Fancy Food Show is coming up. The Summer Fancy Food Show is happening in New York City. So a bunch of us are headed back to the Big Apple. It's taking place this Sunday through Tuesday. I'm blanking on the dates. Is Is that the 23rd? Is it the 25th? 23rd. The 25th, I believe. Yeah. I'm going out for a day. Monday. Yeah, there you go. Monday. Monday. You will see me, Melissa, Monica, Mike, John Craven, and Lucas Southard. So is that six? Did I get the mask right?

4:46I think that six of us are going to be out there at various times, as Mike mentioned. He's only going to be out there for a day, he and Craven. So catch them while you can. I'll be there for about a day and a half, two days or so. But I'm really excited to head back. I love that show. And I've already gotten just, I don't know, a few dozen emails from folks that are exhibiting and have a bunch of new products, packaging revamps, news about retail distribution that they're going to highlight at the show. So very exciting stuff. And the best part about it, in my opinion, is that, again, it's in New York City.

5:19So all the things you can do inside the convention center, there's so many things you can do inside the convention center, so many things to see outside the convention center as well. And I'm talking about food and beverage. I'm not talking about, you know, show tunes or the Hudson Yards or anything else. Even though Hudson Yards is pretty cool. You know what I'm talking about. The Empire State Building. This is a good show for people to zig while others are zagging, so to speak. I mean, we see a lot of innovation that's introduced at Expo West and people are looking for it at Fancy Foods. I think at the Fancy Food Show, you have an opportunity to call out perhaps differentiators that you may at Expo West.

5:55So if you have a chocolate product, you can talk about, you know, the nuances and the terroir of the chocolate, for example. So I think the audience might be receptive to slightly different messaging. I'm also really interested to see how many brands are attending the Fancy Food Show for the first time because Expo East has evolved into something else. Expo East has turned into Newtopia or Newtopia is replacing Expo East. It's happening in late August. and I know there are some folks who just can't make time to be at that show because it's a little late summer, there are people probably still on vacation or they're just hesitant about, you know, being at a brand new event like that.

6:36So I'm curious to talk to exhibitors and see if that was part of their decision to be at Fancy Food Show. Regardless, we will be there. If you are going to be there walking the show floor or exhibiting, please let us know. Send us a note to askatasteradio.com or DM us on LinkedIn or LinkedIn or Instagram. I just combined LinkedIn and Instagram, by the way. Did you? Linkstagram. Or I said, I think I said, what did I say? I don't know. Anyway. You guys race so good at social media. You're the newfangled Insta link. Yes. And Mike, you corrected me. It's Newtopia now, not just Newtopia. Newtopia now.

7:12Got it. Newtopia now, not later. Yes. Newtopia later. That's happening a few months down the road. Remember that candy now and later? You could eat some now and then save some for later. I think I still have some of that stuck in my teeth from like 1983. I think I still may have a square stuck in a pair of jeans that got washed. Yeah. My dentist is making a living off my consumption of now and later as a child. I'm pretty sure he's living it up on a boat because of that candy. So, yeah. You just triggered Ray, Melissa. I think this is the exact candy that made Ray fear the dentist. You want to go on a tangent here?

7:56I just... No. The dentist, the dentist, the dentist. You know... The dentist is Ray's nemesis. Are we living in like the 1200s that they're still drilling people's faces, essentially? I mean, can't we... Aren't there any advances in dentistry such that we don't have to be in pain and hear like bone burning in our face? you know, because that's what they do. Amen. You hear that drill going right through your tooth. You smell it. It's awful. It's an awful experience. It's disgusting. Yes. Ray, you seem like you might be a rabid anti-dentite. Oh, Ray. Yes. Oh, my. That's a Seinfeld reference for anyone who's wondering what that means.

8:42But yeah, look it up. But it's a funny one. Well done, Wilson. And I love, love the actor who plays the dentist on Seinfeld. Why am I blanking on his name? He was also Walter White. Breaking Bad. Yeah. And he was also the dad on Malcolm in the Middle. What is his name? Ryan. Cranston. Come on, you guys. Right. Right. Nice job. Was it? Brian Cranston. Oh, my gosh. Brian Cranston. Someone who's listening to this episode is just like, Brian Cranston. You idiots. Brian Cranston. He's only one of the greatest actors of all time. You don't need to know his name. No. Hey, speaking of candy, during BibNet Live, I had a chance to duck into Chelsea Market and they have sort of a candy shop there that has like all of your nostalgic favorites.

9:25And I picked up a bunch of things for my kids. One of them was this candy toilet filled with like sour stuff. And it had two lollipops stuck to the side in the shape of the shapes of plungers. when I brought them up to the counter, I told the guy that I was buying skibbity toilet toilets for my kids and he rolled his eyes. And I know I'm not supposed to say that, but I just wanted to continue the theme of things that adults aren't supposed to say. Wow. I appreciate that. As soon as you said candy toilet, I became Marlon Brando from Apocalypse Now. I'm just like, The horror, the horror. It's so wrong.

10:06I thought you might shout out Mesa Chahada from Behave, that awesome gummy brand who claims she manifested, but she's partnered with Busy Phillips, who's now an investor. So that was some pretty cool news that happened during BevNet Live. Yeah, BevNet Live was a great forum, not just for networking and stage content and building awareness for your brands. It was also a great place to pick up news. I was chatting with a bunch of entrepreneurs and retailers and little tidbits of information were coming out here and there about what's going on in their respective businesses. I can't share it to you too much.

10:49There was a really interesting tidbit that a buyer from Whole Foods shared with me about a very specific category that was talked about. This was a category that was talked about on stage at BevNet Live. That really narrows it down, doesn't it? Come on, Ray. Wait, all of them? But, you know, again, I love to talk about BevNet Live as that place where everyone in the industry gets together and has a very specific focus that of beverages. And it's the gatekeepers, it's the investors, it's the early stage entrepreneurs, the grizzled veterans, and everyone there is just like chatting and talking about, you know, what's happening in the industry.

11:30And I mentioned Whole Foods and we were so grateful that Whole Foods was at Fabnet Live, a bunch of folks from the company there. And Charlie New, shout out to him for joining us for our one-to-one retail meetings where founders got 10 minutes to sit down with a retail buyer from various companies, including Whole Foods, Lowe's Foods, GoodSmart, and GoPuff. So people were just thrilled to have that opportunity. And I'm glad they did as well. We also had David Lafferty there and John Lawson. I mean, the Whole Foods team, it was a who's who. We had Rachel Kruper from the Goodsmark doing double duty.

12:09She judged. She took meetings. Thanks so much, Rachel. And shout outs to the GoPuff team and the Lowe's team, who also did a fantastic job taking one-to-one meetings. And our partners, LA Libation, specifically SIP and Relentless Trade Solutions for helping us put it all together. And of course, a hearty congratulations to the winner of the New Beverage Showdown, Pretty Tasty founder, Scarlett Lung, who was tremendous on stage, gave a great presentation in the semifinal round and final round, and was victorious when we announced that Pretty Tasty was the winner. there was a roar, literally a roar from her and her team.

12:49And it was exciting. I've never heard someone or a team scream like that. I've heard lots of yelps and I've heard lots of gasps and giggles and things like that, but they were like, it was pretty cool. No, they went crazy. I would like to point out that Mike and I were trying to figure out like who our bet was for the winner. And it was so, so hard. We went back and forth. I finally did settle on Pretty Tasty, which I do have to call out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you, you guess based on the final round presentations that Pretty Tasty was going to be victorious. What we did was we were standing there with one of the contestants, one of the founders of Lily, and we were making cases for cases, each of the brands in the finals to win.

13:37And Melissa thought her case for Pretty Tasty was so strong that she decided it was pretty tasty. Okay. And you know, I think what went into that was partially just happenstance. They sent us a bunch of samples and I've been guzzling it. And it's just so good. And it's not common that a collagen beverage doesn't have sort of like an aftertaste or some viscosity. And they just, I think they do what they do so well. Yeah, and to be clear, I didn't mention that Pretty Tasty is a brand of collagen teas, ready-to-drink teas, and also stick packets as well. I believe nine grams of collagen protein per can, per 12-ounce slim can.

14:18And that really impressed the judges, I think, this idea that collagen could be that next great functional ingredient. I think in some ways it is already a well-known and in-demand functional ingredient, and Pretty Things is kind of hitting that trend in stride. Pretty tasty. Yeah. I'm sorry. Pretty Things, you said. You know, that's twice that I've done that. Pretty Things is a now discontinued beer brand that was based here in the Boston area, which was so beloved. And it was actually called Pretty Things Beer and Ale Project. And I was very worried about saying Pretty Things on stage. Hopefully I didn't.

14:54But yes, Pretty Things, again, hitting that collagen trend in stride. there was some mention of actually using the word protein on the front of can, or at least somewhere on the can, which wasn't there. It makes sense because I think when consumers are looking at a nutritional panel for a beverage, you check the sugar, you may not even look at the protein because you don't expect it to be contained in the beverage. Ready protein water does that, which, you know, certainly I think makes sense. Yeah. And not to reveal too, too much, we should do a podcast with all of the judges in the semifinal round and the final round and just sort of give a behind the scenes of how it all went down.

15:35Because it was really, really interesting to be in the room, both for the deliberation process of both rounds, in particular, the final round, the judges, they were going back and forth on a few brands. And I'm not gonna reveal which brands. But there was a lot of talk about market readiness versus potential. And I think, you know, people can read between the lines here. The excitement generated by some brands was because of the presentations, because of the fact that it was a quote unquote disruptive idea. Whereas, Whereas other brands had just a really polished, ready for prime time kind of feel.

16:20But again, don't want to reveal too, too much. I really do think we should put together a conversation with your team, Mike, so to speak, Max, Jonke, and Lexi. And then, of course, our final round, judges John, Rachel, Rachel, and Charlie. That'd be fun. Sounds like a fun podcast episode. Yeah. Yes. I think we should do it. I mean, it was really difficult. My heart sunk as soon as that last pitch was over because I knew we had to make decisions for cuts. And there were some phenomenal brands that didn't make it to the second round. Like I'll just call out one, for instance, Jazz, I thought was super tasty.

17:05J-A-S. Yep. A brand of non-alcoholic cocktails. Yep. The pitch was extraordinary. And the Paloma Libre was one of the best things I tasted. So it just shows you how competitive that whole set is. And as we were making cases, Melissa made a case for Case. That was an easy case. Explore Cold Brew was an easy case. OK Energy, super easy case to make for them to win. And as Ray said, it's like a game of interest. Holy Water, too. I thought that their use of ketones was interesting. And then if we're going to talk about brands that didn't make it to the final round that we love, Heal Tea is one of my favorite beverages that we've had in this office recently.

17:47I think I drank three at BevNet Live alone. So it's a really tough competition. There was a lot of buzz in the audience about Holy Water because everybody wanted to see baby Jesus pitch. And I think that they had an X factor that they didn't use. And it's like kind of, you know, in Survivor, when you have the idol in your pocket and then you get voted off. Maybe it was kind of like that. We need some context here. The baby Jesus that Mike is referring to is one of the co-founders of Holy Water. His name is BJ McCaslin, who lately has gone by baby Jesus. BJ McCaslin is a former winner, two-time winner, actually, of the showdown.

18:26First as the co-founder of Cocoa Cafe, which I believe was the second showdown we ever did, which eventually got acquired by Vitacoco. And then also as the co-founder of Bear Squeeze. And Bear Squeeze, however, never actually made it to market. Great presentation, really interesting brand, but one of those products that just never really, it was more of an idea than something that actually was a fully realized and commercialized brand. Anyway, he goes by Baby Jesus now. I don't know what to say about that. He also calls me the beverage wizard. Does he? Okay, the BW? He calls me BevWiz. BevWiz?

19:02Because Beverage Whisperer was already taken? I guess. He's an interesting dude. Yeah. You know what else is interesting? It's interesting how many people are interested. Can I say that? Is that kind of a weird thing to say? You can't do it, Ray. Okay. It's interesting how many people are interested in immune function. Immunity. Immunity as a function. Now more than ever, consumers are looking for ways to boost their immune systems. And Amuse gives them that edge. Amuse is a dietary and food ingredient clinically shown to stimulate immune function at the cellular level. Incorporate Amuse into your innovation strategy and help your consumers optimize their health throughout the year.

19:43Learn more at AmuseHealth.com. That's I-M-M-U-S-E Health dot com. I wish I had some Amuse in my coffee. That's the easiest way, I think, to get your immunity benefit, your immunity function, because it's the first thing you drink or one of the first things you drink in the morning. You know, you get it done. You're done for the rest of the day. You don't need to think about it. Perhaps the fine folks at Pop and Bottle will start incorporating Amuse into their products. We can only hope. Pop and Bottle, a women-owned brand of organic coffee. They make lattes in cans. They also make cold brew coffee in these fantastic multi-serve bottles.

20:25This is their 48-ounce bottle of cold brew coffee. They make it in three varieties. This is their medium roast variety. They also make a light roast and one that is sweetened or flavored with vanilla. Josh, the founder of Poppin' Bottles, one of the very first people that I met on like my first day of BevNet when we were, you know, at Expo West, that was my first day. And still just one of the kindest people I've met. What a great intro to the industry when you meet a founder like Josh and get to meet her team and just got great people like Jessica Pratt and Charles Lee. I just great person after great person after great person after great person at Pop and Bottle.

21:07Their lattes are so delicious. Their matcha latte is one of my all-time favorite beverages to buy. We get so many beverages into the office sometimes that it's a hard proposition to go out and buy a bunch at the grocery store, but that's one I always throw down money for. I love that they're sweetened with days and they're just so tasty. For sure. I don't know if people can see if they're watching the video, my pop and bottle bottle here. That's huge. It's huge, but it's sweating. It's like all perspiring. And it's because it's a very hot day. There's a heat wave taking hold across the United States, including here in the Boston area.

21:44Luckily, however, I have a handy dandy little fan. Oh, that feels good. There you go. As you can see, it's a portable fan that I got from I'm such a diva. Visiting Bar Convent Brooklyn, which I visited a day before BevNet Live. Bar Convent Brooklyn is the name. My suggest is a convention focused on the bar and hospitality industry. A lot of education and seminars focused on trends, innovation, things that are happening in that space. Also a great exposition for new and emerging brands in the industry. I sat down with a few fine folks, including the founders of a brand called Mom and Pop, S-M-O-M-E-N-P-O-P, which makes these outstanding aperitifs, including a ruby grapefruit variety that just blew me away.

22:35So thank you to those folks. I also met with the folks from Savoia, S-A-V-O-I-A, which makes an Amaro in a very beautiful bottle. I mean, it looks like a work of art. I'm going to add the image to the show notes. And then I also want to call it a brand called Astrayas, which is based in the Pacific Northwest. I believe it's based in Portland, Oregon. And one of the things I tried was a single malt gin. I've never even heard of a single malt gin. I talked to the founders about it. It's pretty high strength that I think it was about almost 57 % alcohol, just a small sip, just a tiny sip, tiny sip.

23:12Drinking on the job. Yes. Yes. It's what I do. But yeah, Astraeus, A-S-T-R-A-E-U-S. I wasn't at Bar Convent very long. I was only there for about three-ish hours, but met with a ton of folks and also sat down with Simon Ford. He's kind of a legend in the industry. He is the creator or one of the creators of Ford's Gin. And Ford's Gin was acquired in 2019, let's call it. And just an amazing interview that is coming soon to taste radio. Look for it soon. I'm going to go back to my fan here. Can you hear this on the microphone? Oh, so nice. I'm surprised you don't have people fanning you and feeding you grapes.

23:54I don't have any, I don't, there's no ducks here in this room that I'm in. I'm in my sunroom here. And so there's no AC ducks. So I'm just like, you don't want to see the rest of this blue shirt because it's just not a pleasure. Yeah. I got some of these products the other day. It's a line of hot sauces, honey hot sauces more specifically. The brand is called Local Hive. Local Hive makes, I believe, seven varieties of these hot sauces. The two I have in my hand are their mango habanero and their sriracha variety. They just announced nationwide distribution at Whole Foods. I wonder if they're going to get all seven on shelf.

24:37You don't typically see a brand that has seven SKUs, a seven SKU set at any retailer, but I cannot wait to dip into these. The best part about this is they're not like ketchup-y, you know, sometimes like, or just like honey that's flavored with a little bit of spice. These are actual hot sauces that have honey as a sweetener. And yeah, that's right up my alley. Do they have a Tabasco consistency? A little bit thicker. It's a little bit more viscous. Tabasco is pretty watery. No knock on Tabasco. I'm just saying that's the kind of consistency that you would expect from Tabasco. But I'm not sure if you can see it.

25:15It's kind of hard to see. Yeah. But great branding. Look at that. It's fantastic. It really is. Yeah. Local high. Check it out. And who doesn't like a little sweet with their hot. Exactly. Exactly. I also want to mention something and Melissa, maybe you can talk about this. Are we seeing just this influx of sausage coming to market more and more like dipping sauces? So there's this product from Primal Kitchen or a line of products from Primal Kitchen. I have three of them in my hand. It's a new line of dipping sauces. There's an avocado lime. There is a special sauce and there is a yum yum sauce.

25:54They're all made with avocado oil. They're all non-GMO verified. They contain no artificial sweeteners, low in sugar from zero to two grams. And these are amazing. But I keep seeing more and more like dipping sauces or finishing sauces coming to market. I mean, every time you turn around, there's a new sauce like, you know, off the top of my head, Haven's Kitchen has their aioli. Maza has their delicious sauces. When I was in New York, I visited the Tin Building, which is a Jean George sort of collection of restaurants and stores in lower Manhattan near Wall Street. And I saw Louisa's Latin Essentials sauces.

26:34They have seasoning blends, but then they also have a set of sofrito sauces. And then when I saw them there, I started seeing them every, like I saw them in Chelsea Market and a bunch of other places. But yeah, I feel like, you know, you can't turn around and not see a new sauce in this industry. Yeah. I wonder what's generating the supply. There must be demand, right? But if you're an established player or you're an emerging brand, it seems like plain old ketchup or plain old mayonnaise is just not cutting it anymore. You need some spice. You need some flavor with your dipping or finishing sauce.