How Curious Elixirs Built An Eight-Figure Brand Without Outside Investors

0:10Hello friends, I'm Ray Latif and you're tuned into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. He built an eight-figure brand without raising a dollar of outside capital. Now he's sharing exactly how he did it. In this episode, Curious Elixir's founder and CEO, J.W. Wiseman, reveals the playbook behind one of the adult non-alcoholic category's earliest success stories. He explains why he bet on the sober curious trend years before it became mainstream, how direct consumer sales fueled profitable growth from day one, and why relentless product refinement, not rapid expansion, has been the foundation of the brand's success.

1:00JW also discusses customer acquisition, retail strategy, premium pricing, and the long-term vision that's guiding Curious Elixirs as it aims to redefine how people drink socially.

1:17Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I am supremely honored to be sitting down with J.W. Wiseman, who is the founder and CEO of Curious Elixirs. J.W., it's great to see you. It's great to see you, too. We're at the Summer Fancy Food Show here in New York City. It's breezy where we are, which I know is good for you because you've been in the bowels of the Jacob Javits Center, hot as a dog, as they were. And a little breeze is probably good at this point. Oh, yeah. It feels very cool where we are right now. Loving it. Yeah, it's also good that we have some Curious Elixir with us. we've got a can of your number one.

1:51What is your number one? The OG. Yeah. Curious Elixir number one. So this is inspired by one of my favorite drinks of all time, the Negroni Spagliato. So lightly sparkling Negroni, but finishes like a dry Lambrusco because I'm a big drinks nerd. I've been in the bar business for over 20 years. And that's kind of why I started Curious was from drinking too much after owning a whiskey bar in a nightclub. Decided, hey, I need to cut back.

2:19J.W.:you know, after having 20 drinks in one night. 20 drinks in one night. Yep. That would give a lot of people a reason to cut back on the drinking. It certainly gave me something to think about when I woke up with no hangover. And I thought to myself, that's terrifying that my body can take in that much booze. And this was a number of years ago. When did you come up with the idea of Curious Deluxers? I came up with the idea for it in 2013 and was tinkering in my kitchen until we launched in 2015. So this was way ahead of the trend. I think in 2013 and 2015, the big beverage trends, at least in non-alc, were cold breast juice and kombucha, not where we are today, which is non-alc cocktails and Better For You soda, which I think are the two really most fast-growing trends in beverage.

3:04I don't know. I might get in trouble for saying that, but that's the way I feel anyway. And I think what Curious has been doing over the years is really compelling. And being at the forefront of this movement is not always easy. Being a pioneer is not always easy. but what made you think that in 2013, this could be a viable business? Well, what made me realize this was bigger than just me and somebody who was drinking a lot of alcohol was I made a batch of a prototype of Curious No. 1 and took it to the opening party at a hotel we owned in Rockaway Beach here in New York City. And I just put up a huge, huge jug of Curious Elixir No.

3:391. It didn't say that it was non-alcoholic or alcoholic. It just said, Curious Elixir number one. And what we found was that everybody drank the hell out of that and weren't really touching the mezcal. So that was surprising to me that people would really enjoy something non-alcoholic and go back to it over and over again for a whole night of partying. And that's really what opened my eyes to it. And then when I started kind of asking friends, I was like, hey, you know, you want to try this? And they're like, oh, I'm training for a marathon. Sure, I'll have some of that. I'm not drinking right now.

4:08Or somebody's pregnant or somebody is just wanting to cut back like me, because I'm not a sober person. I'm just somebody who needed to make a massive shift from those 20 drinks in one night to maybe having three alcoholic drinks a month. Yeah, well, moderation is the name of the game these days. It seems like nobody wants to do too much of one or the other. And I think, again, that's really applicable to modern consumers. 10 years ago, I don't know how many people might have seen that trend. Did you feel like you needed to wait to catch up to the trend? Or did you feel like you were just happy to be patient until a broader audience understood what you were doing?

4:49J.W.:Well, at the time, I was thinking to myself, I'm not sure if the world is ready for this, but I need to get started now. One thing that opened me up to it was being in the bar business and you see how many people come in and they're drinking hard. But then I started looking at some of the data and seeing that, Wow. Even back in 2015, when we launched, 75 million adult Americans don't drink alcohol at all. And another 90 million adult Americans were drinking two or fewer alcoholic drinks per week. So this giant pool of people who are only having soda or club soda and bitters. And I just got really damn bored of drinking bitters and soda.

5:26And that's really when I knew it's like, okay, I've got the data. I've been tinkering in my kitchen. We got to try this out. And we know that this can work. It's just about finding the right audience. And people who were looking for your product, but didn't even know they were looking for your product. Correct. Yeah. And that's why we launched on Kickstarter. Because we were like, we need to find our people first. We need to find the people who this deeply resonates with. And that became our first 700 customers is from Kickstarter. When we started getting press in Refinery29 and the Wall Street Journal and stuff like that, we're like, oh, okay, there's something here.

5:57We need to go faster on this. At the time, I was running marketing for Daily Harvest, this, you know, smoothies and whatnot. not. And I knew that the wellness curve was bending more toward more people being healthier in their diets and not wanting a lot of sugar. So I kind of took cues from the Whole30 movement and stuff like that and be like, okay, we're going to do no added sugar. We're going to do clean ingredients. We're going to make something that's really fucking delicious. And people are going to find it and they're going to love it. The 700 people that were part of your initial tribe, What made them that really impactful group for you to be able to say, this is how we're going to market to new customers.

6:37This is how we're going to innovate. This is how we're going to grow. What did you learn from those folks? And again, what were the common traits among them that gave you confidence that you could build from, say, 700 to 700 ,000?

6:50J.W.:Right. Well, some of the common traits would be the other brands that they buy. This is the number one indicator for us. It's even how like some politicians might have gotten elected. You know what I'm saying? Sure. People look at what brands they buy and then you start to find the other psychographics behind them. For us, it was people that were interested in Whole30. It was people that were interested in Lululemon. It was people that had kind of these wellness cues sprinkled throughout their lives. And so that's really how we went after it. We were like, these are going to be people that are interested in maybe not being sober, but just in having a healthier life.

7:25But they still want something delicious. That's the commonality. And we found that all of these people just felt like they were being left behind. There was literally nothing. It's like water in the desert when we first started Curious Elixirs. And we decided to do something which is a little bit radical, which is go direct to consumer first when most people go retail first. And that's really coming out of the Warren Buffett school of thought, which is see what the rest of the world is doing and do the opposite. Everybody was going deep into agave brands, you know, and we're like, okay, we're going to go and build a non-alcoholic brand that feels like nightlife, that can appeal to both men and women, that has design and ingredients put first.

8:00We also put in something that had never been done before, which is infusing it with herbs and adaptogens. That hadn't really been done before. It has been done traditionally in cultures throughout the world, but putting it into a cocktail context, never been done. So we figured, what if we could make something that's really delicious, that happens to be non-alcoholic? And what if that could make your body feel great instead of feeling shitty the next day? That's the key insight. Yeah. When you were pulling information from this group, was it via surveys? Was it focus groups? How are you talking to them and how are they communicating back to you?

8:34J.W.:Definitely surveys, definitely direct. I've read every one of the reviews that have come in on our Shopify site over 11 years. You have to take every bit of feedback seriously, even if it doesn't make sense to you, because everybody's experience is valid, but you have to see when those experiences get repeated, say like 10 to 12 times, then you know that's something to pay attention to. If you have one person who has an unbelievable experience, that's great. But if you have 12 of them that have an unbelievable experience, that makes all the difference to pay attention to at least. And what if 12 people say, I don't like this aspect of the brand, do you start changing it immediately or do you really have to evaluate how that feedback fits into your overall strategy?

9:16Have you ever heard the Daft Punk song, Harder, Faster, Better, Stronger? Of course, sure. Our work is never over, Ray. Our work is never over. And we're never done formulating like this pomegranate Negroni Spagliato that you're drinking right now. Curious number one. I've been through 97 different versions of this roughly. So it's not necessarily number one. It's number one asterisk. Yeah. 1.97 is the version. Yeah. Because we want everybody to have the best possible experience. And if we keep refining and refining and refining constant improvement, almost like Toyota's production line, nobody's going to be able to touch us from a quality perspective.

9:52And quality is what's going to ultimately drive velocity. Yes, branding and money and all of those things, awareness, you have to have those too. But if you don't have the quality first, it's going to be fly by night. Quality also elicits loyalty. And I imagine that 700 became 800, 900, 1 ,000, 10 ,000. But it's all done direct to consumer. And common sense or just general rules of business in the beverage industry would say that you can't scale in glass via direct-to-consumer. But that's exactly what you guys did.

10:26J.W.:Right. How? Well, part of it was choosing our packaging design very carefully. I wanted to have stubby bottles that would be more robust when you're shipping them via UPS all over the country. And we worked really hard with our corrugating manufacturers. our damage in the early years was probably like 3 % of boxes getting damages. Now it's about a half percent or less. And so that refinement with our corrugated partners really made a big difference overall. Also, you have to take care of the people who, when they do have a problem, you got to send them another box. But if you take care of it up front so that you're not getting much breakage, then you don't have as much customer service costs or fulfilling again.

11:04So that was a big part of it. But I think the biggest thing that enabled us to scale is no digital marketing inside and out. And that's really the critical skill. Like that's where I came from. That's a lot of my background in addition to being in the bar industry was getting customers to convert online and then telling their friends about it. Better for you ingredients can help a product stand out, but turning those ingredients into a business that grows is the harder part. Join Nombase for a free webinar on July 28th with Tom First, founder of CulturePop and Heather Wood, SVP of marketing at Goodles.

11:36They'll talk about what it really takes to build clean label brands that drive trial, repeat purchase, and sustainable growth, from formulation and sourcing to branding, retail, and operations. Sign up for free at nonbase.com slash podcast. I want to talk about the shipping aspect beyond breakage because it's heavy to ship glass. Yes. Certainly there are other brands in food and also in beverage that have to ship in glass. If you think about wine in particular, pasta sauces maybe, but heavy beverages in glass always seems like it's going to be that those costs are going to land on the consumer.

12:14How did you manage shipping costs so that the consumer wouldn't be paying through the nose for your products? When we first started, the customer was bearing all of the cost of the shipping. And we found that when we moved to a flat rate shipping cost and where we're subsidizing a few dollars in the price of the beverage, that that conversion rate went up by almost a full point. It was a big, big shift. People are still willing to pay for shipping as long as you're going after the right consumer. If you're going for lowest possible cost consumers, like if you're going for a super low margin, low cost beverage, it's not going to work, right?

12:50You can't ship to everybody that way. But we just started that from day one. Like we're going to charge from shipping. We kind of explained to the customer, these are glass bottles coming in a box. It's going to be a little bit pricey, but we're going to cap it at$9 per box for you, even though it costs like$14 to ship to you. So that was a big part of it. It's like, we have to stick to this because it's the only way that we're going to be profitable. And we were profitable since year one, because frankly, we charge a premium price and you have to build that into your business from day one. It's a lot easier to charge more money upfront and lower your costs as your cogs get better than to charge under what it costs just so that you can get the sale and lose money on it.

13:29That's a good way to go out of business. And I have no interest in that. Is that business 101? Yeah. Top line growth has been the most important or one of the most important aspects of a business, especially from an investor standpoint. But being profitable from the get-go doesn't happen very often. And I think in addition to being really frugal and focused on your costs, you also have to be convincing to that consumer to want to buy your product, to want to buy your product more than once. And the digital marketing aspect of what you're doing or what you knew and did well is something I think our listeners would want to hear about.

14:08Acquiring that consumer and the cost of acquiring that consumer can always be time-consuming, resource-consuming. How do you do it efficiently? How do you make sure that you're reaching that consumer in a way that's going to resonate with them, but also do it in a way that's cost effective for your company? Well, I think it all starts with why should someone buy your product? And one thing that I think a lot of people miss is it's not just about the quality. People are going to remember how your products make them feel much more than how they taste. When you're using herbs and adaptogens, we're able to make that argument to people like, hey, this Curious No.

14:471 with rhodiola is going to help you unwind without alcohol. And it does. that's what people remember. And when you're trying to go out and acquire customers, remember that it's about how you make them feel, not just how it tastes. And not just the ingredients in there as well. Right. A lot of people try to sell and educate about ingredients, but at the end of the day, it's really about what this product does for you. Yes. The function, for lack of a better word, is the real selling point,

15:15J.W.:not necessarily the ingredient. Yes, absolutely. And I learned that from doing marketing on Daily Harvest and on other brands. When we tried to do acquisition campaigns that were focused around ingredients or farmers or supply chain, nobody gave a shit. What they care about is what does this do for me? You know, if I'm a middle-aged woman who's looking to drink less, am I going to feel younger because I drink this? And the answer is yes. If you are a dude who's going out and wants to work out really hard on your body, are you then going to go and have like 200 calorie beer? Are you going to have something that actually helps with your muscle recovery?

15:46That's why we launched Curious Zero, our lion's mane lager. It's going to make you feel like you're having something adult after you're going through your day. And that's something that's really, really important, I think, to literally any beverage out there.

15:59J.W.:It's all about how you make people feel. Okay, so the message is clear. How about the platforms? Where were you marketing Curious Elixirs? Where were you talking about the brand? And how did you know you were talking to the right people? Well, we started with Facebook, obviously. Instagram, you know, TikTok didn't even exist at this point. we wrote off Twitter completely, to be totally honest, because we knew that the conversion rates weren't there. Our people weren't there. Lots of browsers on Twitter, not as many buyers. The buyers were really coming from Facebook and Instagram and from the early press that we got.

16:33That's a lot of where those people came from and what enabled us to grow from those first 700 to now over 10 million elixirs sold. Amazing. Is Facebook still effective? Yes, Facebook is still effective. I will say that this year in 2026, for pretty much every brand we talk to, it's been a slog. But we don't spend a dollar unless we get$1.50 back. We just don't do it. So our budgets on Meta have slowed a little bit this year, but we're still spending money there for sure. Still a profitable channel, but it's not as profitable as it was even two years ago. You don't spend a dollar unless you can get$1.50 back.

17:10That's for our models. Some places, you know, when we first started, it was we don't spend a dollar unless we get$1.30 back. But now with costs rising, we needed to adjust our return on ad spend target up to$1.50 to make sure that we're going to stay in the black because every dollar we make goes back into this mission. Our mission is to transform how we drink socially. And cash is oxygen to a business.

17:33J.W.:If you don't have it, you're dead. Right. Got to have it. Cash flow is really underrated in any aspect of CPG. It seems like everyone always wants to raise money, raise money, raise money. But then you have to give up something when you raise money, whether it's a piece of your business or control your business. And have you had outside investors? We do not have any outside investors. And you've built to this point where if you could share revenue for Curious Elixirs? Every year we're doing eight figures of business. So we're over 10 million. Amazing. Amazing. Just going back to how you got the word out about Curious Elixirs, you mentioned press.

18:08Sometimes it's difficult to get press. I mean, in the industry, and within our industry, there's a handful of publications that you can talk to and amplify what you're doing. WebNet, Taste Radio being one of them. Yeah. For consumer, it might be a little more difficult. How do you get press or how did you approach consumer press such that you could attract attention from the writers and editors that could amplify what you were doing with Curious? Well, one thing I did was put on my calendar four days a week for an hour, just outreach to different journalists and tastemakers. Okay. Four days a week, one hour a day.

18:45And this is something that, you know, it's kind of like going to the gym. Like if you start finding the people who you think they're going to resonate, like your story is going to resonate with, and you help them understand your story, then some of them are going to put it out there. So it's a little bit about just doing the work to find the right people and continuously pushing that story out there. Another one is you have to think about the story that you actually want to come out, write it down and be like, don't bullshit yourself. Like, is this compelling? Is it not? And sometimes it is. And sometimes it isn't depend on the audience, but you have to put yourself out there continuously.

19:18You know, we're lucky now that we have awesome PR people that we work with. But in the early days, it was just a small merry band of people doing this. And we had to do it all ourselves. In the early days, you don't have to outsource everything. You know, some people like Jeff Bezos say like only focus on what makes your beer taste better. And that's great when you're established for a couple of years. But in the early days, you kind of have to juggle 25 balls at once. And you just have to know that you can't drop the glass ones.

19:44J.W.:And the rubber balls, you can let those drop sometimes. How long was it just you running the company? Oh, I mean, I've had help from the very beginning. I mean, in terms of food scientists, herbalists, marketing partners, things of that nature. But it was a small band of about four people from the beginning. How many people work for the company now? We're about 30 people now. Okay. Pretty significant. That's funny. It still feels like the second inning to me. Yeah? Yeah. Why? You know, we're 11 years into a 40-year mission. That's what it takes for generational change. And for Curious, you know, our mission is that 20 years from now when I'm at my daughter's wedding, they're raising a glass of Curious champagne right next to the alcoholic champagne.

20:26That's the vision that we're looking at is where it's just, that's just normal. That's just normal so that you're not just saying like, oh, we have a glass of Dom here and that's what we do for the toast. No, what we're looking for is something where alcohol and non-alcoholic premium options exist side by side. Everybody's happy. It's a very inclusive mission. That's what we're trying to build here. And so that's why it's important that we not vilify alcohol. I love alcohol. It's just that I loved it too much and I needed to reevaluate my relationship with it. And so that's why we started this.

20:56And now it's pretty amazing to have dozens of people help us on this 40-year mission. Well, I think we're getting a little bit closer, at least on the beer front, right? I think what's interesting to hear from you, JW, is that you have a vision as much as you have a business perspective. Is there one that's more important than the other? I mean, do you really have to have that passion for generational change when you're building a business or do you really need to be focused on the tactics that you need to be successful from day to day? It depends on the outcome that you're aiming at. If you're aiming for a five-year exit, maybe your mission isn't as important.

21:38Maybe it's all about tactics and strategy. And that's okay for us. We're not necessarily looking for that exit. We're open to it, but it's not the core mission. We would only be open to it if it would achieve the mission. The mission has to be in harmony with the business because they really have to coexist.

21:56J.W.:I'm curious if strategics want to hear that. Let's say Constellation came to you tomorrow and said, hey, we want to invest in your brand or even better. Yeah, they came to us years ago. And we're like, thank you so much. Pretty much every major strategic you can think of has approached us at one point, usually in the early years, you know, like years two, three. They're like, hey, we really like what you're doing. And I'm like, thank you so much. Can we talk in five years when we're a little bit more established? because we still have so much learning to do. We have a ton of learning to do about how to make retail work properly.