Is Superfood Still Relevant? And, Why Is 'Rampage' On A Kick?

0:10Hello friends and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. This episode features a conversation with MMA icon Quentin Rampage Jackson, who is a partner with F3 Energy. Speaking of Rampage, you seem a little upbeat today for somebody who's having Michael Alise say fever dreams all night. That's a reference to the game that Manchester United and Crystal Palace played yesterday. No, I'm happy with it.

0:50They're the hottest team in the league right now. Not to go very deep on this, but I'm actually happy because I don't want United to finish in a place where they'd have to play in the Europa Conference League next season. Yeah, the Conference League's terrible. That would be terrible. That is terrible. This is where half our listeners just button mash the skip 30 seconds button. I wish I had a skip button, you know? I know, I'm like, where is it? Not you too, Jack. I thought it was just John who was hating on the soccer. Don't hate on the soccer. My only point of reference is Wrexham because of the documentary.

1:19And I think they just got promoted. I mean, they did. The good thing is that our dear friend Adam Stern is over the moon about this because his team is the best in the league at the moment. His team is Crystal Palace. A month ago, he was on the cliff, ready to jump. They seem to be heading in the right direction. Yeah, yeah. John Craven, have you recovered from your jet lag? Like I'm always jet lagged when I come back from California and I did it twice in the past week. So yeah, I feel pretty good. You feel good? Yeah. You get your live flat seat. Do you do live flat when you, when you fly? Sometimes.

1:51Sometimes. I mean, you know, it's just one of the perks of the job, I guess. I don't, I don't lie flat as much as I sit in the exit row of the JetBlue seats, which are the most spacious ones. But then you got to like, you got to commit to helping if something goes wrong. And they always give you, I want the verbal commitment. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you say yes, but you don't really mean it, do you? I mean, like, what if something terrible happens? Something terrible happens. They ask me to help. I'll help. Obviously, you'll help. But are you actually prepared to help? Well, I've heard the... Did you read the card inside the back pocket?

2:24I've read the card enough times, yeah. I've read it, really? Why not? You're supposed to. You're supposed to. I'm not sitting next to Ray on a plane. No, seriously. You shouldn't. He's going to be just darting out of the exit. He just grabs his Louis Vuitton, like, carry-on. with his little puppy in it. He would kick a small child. He'd be like, don't you know how much this costs? My Beats X Gucci headphones, they make me kick those off. The gold chains? Yeah, exactly. They were like, sir, just we need that. We need the headphones off just for a second. And they're like, you know, were you willing and able to help?

2:56And I say willing, yes. Able, I don't know. I mean, like, come on, let's be serious about this. I mean. Okay, we know not sit next to Ray. Anyway, but Jackie, you know, I feel like you're willing and able to help with anything. You got your camouflage down today. I feel like if anyone were sitting in an exit where I'll see it, I'd want it to be Jackie. I feel like I'd put on my like superwoman outfit and be like, I got this, everyone. Like plug up any holes that are in the plane. Jesus. I'd take over the plane and make sure we land. Did you say take over the plane if needed? Oh, boy. Yeah. It's okay.

3:28I was just trying to land it. Fly outside. Fly under the plane. Hold it up. Well, you know, Alaska Airlines could have used you a few months ago. Too soon? Too soon. there was a hole there was a humongous hole in that plane and i i flew the uh was it 747 max 767 max whatever one of those i read the story about the woman who was holding on to her teenage son when that is scary that is really yeah that's horrifying obviously yeah well alaska airlines does have straightaway cocktails i love a more positive relevant note this is not tasty thank you it's not about alaska i wasn't thanks for going there i wasn't giving alaska the beef if Is that still a term, giving them beef?

4:06Yeah, beef is still a term. Yeah, it's a Gen Z thing. Yeah, I just turned it into one. Just like standing on business. Boeing is, well, yeah, right? Boeing is the one that caused that issue. But no, Alaska is great. They do have the straightaway cocktails. They have the old-fashioned, they have the margarita. Best cocktail game in the airline industry. Well, I got to bring up a couple brands that we featured in a recent episode of Elevator Talk. One is called Sibs. S-I-B-Z is the name of the brand. They're a maker of date bites. They have three varieties of their date bites, including a goji berry and chia, an espresso and nuts.

4:46This one is raw cacao and coconut. Which one? Raw cacao and coconut. Raw cacao and coconut. Now, each one of these, these bites are sort of sphere shaped. You need two pieces for each serving. There's five servings per pouch and 80 calories per serving. I love the packaging. It feels very young, Gen Z, packaging and the label design, that is. It knows that there's no added sugar. They're gluten-free, plant-based. And they just recently got into all Sprouts locations, even though they're only about eight months old. I love the idea of just, you know, natural whole food snacks. Me too. So are we going to indulge in this idea?

5:30I can't indulge on this, but as a segue, I want to get into dates themselves, because this came up quite a bit in our conversation with the founders of Sibs. And sort of tie this into a reoccurring segment we have on Taste Radio called Buy or Sell. Dates. I keep seeing dates as like a key ingredient in a lot of snacks or date sugar or date syrup being used as a sweetener. in said snacks. I just wonder, do dates have the kind of runway? Do dates have the kind of resonance with mainstream consumers that I think a lot of these brands think they might? John, let's start with you. Putting me on the spot.

6:15I got to put you on the spot. You're my spot guy. Dates, that's a complicated, complicated topic. How so? Consumers' kind of awareness and interest in just dates if you think of a literal date you know it's not the most exciting thing out there they've been around for forever i do think that a lot of kind of more savvy better for you food and beverages have you know used those to avoid adding like refined sugar which i think is a totally fine use of the ingredient i think from a market ability standpoint point consumers aren't like super jazzed about dates you know i think there's clearly some exceptions to this of like a brand like julie's that's just about dates right j-o-o-l-i-e-s but i think for brands whose identity is not specifically dates it's generally kind of better to go subtle with the dates and talk about the benefits a la you know no refined sugar type Yeah, I would agree.

7:22So you're not necessarily buying or selling. You're just kind of leaving it on the shelf for now. I mean, I think dates are great in the right situation. So again, if your company is all about dates, fine. If it's not, then I think it's something that generally is better off like staying in the background. Well, so this brand, Sibz, S-I-B-Z, is a brand of date bites. They're all about dates. So in this context, you're buying. I think this brand doesn't necessarily need to be about dates. I don't know. does this have protein in it like what's the no it's not like a protein ball sort of thing it's just kind of a it's a date bite it's better for your snack better for your snack yeah i don't know this is one of those that's like right on the line hard hard to say okay like i look at the picture of the product it's great you know do i need to think about dates i don't know i don't know mike's been shopping at the bit looking at the bag intensely what are your thoughts i'm looking at the bag intensely because sibs the goji berry and chia from the package to you know the experience when you eat it.

8:21This one fully pays off. I got goji berry. There's chia seeds everywhere. This one's great. So then I'm thinking, all right, well, the espresso and nuts is going to be similar. Not a lot of espresso flavor in there, Ray. I mean, the nuts were there, but I was looking for a little bit more espresso oomph. Looking at the back here, the one we don't have with us is pistachio and raw cacao. That one sounds awesome. And then we've got this raw cacao and coconut. that i i'd still try the others but the espresso and nuts didn't really pay but are you trying it because you like dates that you're you're i love dates yeah i mean but i i know why to eat dates okay i know why i would eat them but look i think this is you know this is i don't need education this is a type of product that you know you can buy in places like air one i mean you know but i'm saying like these types of products have been around for a long time right i would agree yes and I'm not sure that there's one that's really massively kind of blown up, right?

9:18Let's try this rock, a cow, and coconut, right? Okay. See how this one goes. So I guess my point is that I feel like to some extent the market is kind of speaking for itself. Okay. Jackie, your thoughts? It sounds like no one's buying or selling. Everyone's kind of like... Waiting to see what happens? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there is still a runway. I mean, people in SoCal too have a really good understanding of dates. There's date shakes and things like that. There's a lot of dates in SoCal. So leading with it, people would be a little bit more prone to reaching for something that's a date snack.

9:54But I do agree that as an ingredient and the functionality and keeping it simple, I think as we continue on down this road, people are going to be looking for cleaner, simpler, less sugar snacks and ingredients. So I think just as an ingredient, it makes a lot of sense. I'm going to go in a literal sense here, Ray. And I would buy, I would buy the raw cacao and coconut, the goji berry and chia, but I would sell the espresso nuts. Okay. So very, very specific about it. All right. Yeah. And I think the other ingredients that they're combining with the date makes a lot of sense. Like goji and chia, if it was just pure, like, I don't know, here's a, here's a date.

10:34I mean, Julie's does it really well, but it's like you said, or like Craven said, there's been a lot of products that have already come and gone or already exist in the market. Yeah. I guess what I was trying to say is I feel like it's, it's something that, again, there are like certain levels of consumers who understand it. I think people generally accept it as like a healthy, better for you ingredient, but I'm not sure that leading with dates is like the path to victory. Mm-hmm. Now, I have a product here that I bought from Imperfect Foods, which, as you know, or as our listeners might know, is a subscription food delivery service that rescues produce and products that are imperfect in one way or another.

11:26Either they're close to their expiration date, or maybe the produce is a little misshapen, or they just have excess inventory. This product is called Smash Bites, and it is marketed by Chia Smash, which is a maker of jams that are infused with chia. So these are peanut butter and superfood jam bites. There's four per pouch. On the front of the pack, they note there's seven grams of plant protein, and the ingredients are peanuts, dates, raspberries, cacao, and sea salt. So once again, we see dates in this product. The question I have in the buy or sell that I'm going to be asking is about a specific word on the front of Pack Gear.

12:08Superfood. Superfood as a term has jumped the shark. Buy or sell? I think I'm still buying. I think there's still... That it has jumped the shark. You're buying. Yeah. I'm making this very confusing. It's a double negative. Okay. I am selling that it's jumped the shark. Yeah. Okay. So confused. I think that there's still a lot of people that don't know what a superfood is and is still understanding what functional ingredients are. And we were, you know, at the forefront of product innovation because we're in the industry and we've known what superfoods are for a while, but I think there's still a lot of education for people.

12:49So I think I am selling that it's jumped the shark. So it still has resonance. I should have asked that way. It still has resonance, yes. Superfood still has resonance as a term that people are interested in and attracted to. Yes, I would say so. Okay, fair enough. All right. John, you're nodding your head in agreement. Well, I don't know what the buy or sell thing is. I'm going to rephrase it for a third time. Superfood still has resonance. Buy or sell. Okay. So I feel like superfood at this point is probably on par with using a phrase like all natural or, I don't know, better for you. You know, they're just subtle sort of reassurances to the consumer that something good is inside.

13:28I think, you know, superfood kind of at a most basic level, you know, I think is used to kind of denote things that are, you know, nutrient dense or some, you know, again, better for you type of ingredient. And I think it's fine. I mean, I think, again, like it doesn't really kind of poison the overall message of a brand that uses it in that it's pretty like innocuous and, you know, low key. Right. As opposed to like really screaming about some functional ingredients. So, you know, I look at this and it says superfood jam bites. OK, well, I mean, I guess you're basically telling me that it's not like grape jelly.

14:09Right. So that's cool. You know, it speaks to like product quality. so i think it's fine in this situation i think we're brands similar to what i was saying with dates like really use it as part of their like core identity like i don't know being a superfood juice or something like that and really starting to get like you know down in the weeds of whatever the actual like hero ingredient is and its benefits like that kind of takes away from the fun you know but this is this is good i mean it's a pretty well done package i think haven't tried the product, but. Well, have a bite while Mike weighs in on the superfood debate.

14:45Superfood still has resonance as a term. Does for me. I mean, the word super doesn't tend to let me down. You got superfood, supermarket, super Jackie, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. You know, all those are good for me. Okay. So the key word in there is super. Yeah. You're just going to adopt and embrace anything that's super. Super everything, man. Super everything. thing. You keep talking about cacao over there. And that just leads to this. I had a conversation with Jonas Ketterly last week about ceremonial grade cacao. Did you even know there was ceremonial grade cacao? I knew there was ceremonial grade matcha.

15:21Matcha, of course. So this is a similar concept to that, where making these ceremonial grade cacao that's meant for you to drink it, you know, sort of like you'd have a coffee or a latte. And there's some that have just flavors like tantric rose blossom and o 'hack and spice tantric rose blossom vibrant vitality and then also there's some that have uh like adaptogens this one's there's a mystical mushroom i can't wait to try this you should try it too can i say yes sounds great brand aura aura aura cacao i thought ceremonial cacao was like when i was a kid putting little mini marshmallows in my swiss mess this might be next level from that yeah we're gonna try it later okay yeah i I mean, I'm...

16:01You're definitely in for this. I'm into O 'Hawk and Spice. Same. That sounds great. I'm not... Tantric Rose Blossom. That's definitely your jam, right? Mystical Mushroom. That sounds pretty good. Leave it to your barista. This is going to happen. Or Pure Cacao. We got to make sure that's not too mystical. That's all. Wait, Pure Cacao. It's plural. I didn't know the plural of cacao was cacao. And why would you ever have a plurality of cacao? Why wouldn't you? I've actually started to see a couple cafes pop up in San Diego that serve ceremonial cacao. Is it Aura? It's not Aura. It's just like their own kind of coffee cafe, but it's, there's focused on cacao and the different benefits of it and different flavors, which is kind of cool.

16:45Gotcha. All right. Last one, last buy or sell. how do you guys feel about brands creating better for you versions of legacy snacks do you feel like this is something that uh you want to continue to see or is this something that uh you're like yeah i'm still i'm still a fan of the legacy snacks depends on what the product is like if i didn't like the legacy snack then i probably don't care about a better for you upgraded version. How do you feel about Funyuns? Not my jam. Not your jam? No. I love Funyuns. So you probably wouldn't be interested in these new Lester Evil Moonyans. So Lester Evil...

17:26I don't know, they're hot. Yeah, but that's not... So Lester Evil, the well-known brand of better-for-you snacks, including popcorn, cheese balls, etc., has launched a new line of products that are very similar to a famous snack of onions. But these are called Moonyons. M-O-O-N-I-O-N-S. I feel like you baited John there because when was the last time we said no to anything lesser evil? That's a fair point. Okay, so they have two varieties. Hold on, hold on. Hurry this up. See, he wants to try it. They have a hyperspace hot onion. And they have an intergalactic onion. Both are made with organic avocado oil.

18:08I've got space for those. Just that crazy danger. In my belly. So, which one? I'm a little confused by the hierarchy here. So it's crunchy organic corn rings, but then it says hyperspace hot onion. So is it corn? Is it an onion? Is a little bit of both? Is there actually onion in a Funyun? I don't even know. No, there isn't. That's the beauty of it. A Funyun doesn't actually have onion in it. It's just flavored. It's Funyun. Yeah. So this seems a little like... Which one are we trying? I mean, I don't know. Hyperspace hot onion? Do you go into hyperspace when you eat these? No, we talked about this.

18:44You know, space is a trending kind of term for Gen Z. It's like a... Yeah, they all want to go to space. Exactly. Get off this place. All right. How was it for someone who's not a Funyuns guy? I mean, this is like they made a corn puff just into a ring. Yeah. Yeah, that's what Funyuns is. I don't want to think about onions. Like, they should let Funyuns die. they deserve to die oh okay you have a hate for onions i love onions and funions it doesn't have onion in it don't call it that i know but it tastes oniony and it looks like it's just fun it's like playing with your food you know no it's onion powder yeah organic onion powder at that that's a flavor here's what i have to say about these they are fantastic they are fantastic lesser evil never lets you they're fantastic well done lesser evil way to confuse us in the best way possible.

19:36So confused but tasty. Okay. These are so good. The spice is perfect. You can't, definitely you can't eat one. You have to eat many. Okay. So you're better for you, Doritos, better for you, corn chips, cheese balls, better for you, Funyuns. You're all about that. I mean, if I want a snack and lesser evils around, there's a good chance that I'm going to eat it. So it has more to do with the brand than it does with the product itself. You trust the brand? I think everything this brand does is great. Yeah, but I'm saying, let's say somebody else came out with a better for you Funyuns. Oh, if somebody else came out with a better, like who, like Good Crisp or something?

20:16Sure. I'm in. Okay, so it has a lot to do with the brand. Yeah, I think that's the point, though. It could be, this sort of makes sense as an established snack brand expanding into this. If a brand just launched and all they did were recreate Funyuns, I don't know, to be maybe not the best strategy. Okay. I mean, if you put a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos in front of me and said, Mike, you eat this whole bag. I'll give you a million dollars. You're going to lose a million dollars. So let's put it that way, too. I mean, I love Cool Ranch Doritos. Wait, you said you would eat the bag. I would eat the whole bag.

20:47You'd probably eat it for a dollar. You don't eat a million dollars. Just saying. I'm just going to point out that, look, if you want people to trade up from the legacy, not better for you snacks of our childhood, then you got to be spot on when it comes to texture and flavor. You've got to. Otherwise, why would someone trade up? And I think that leads me back to a conversation about a brand called Harken, right? So Harkin is a maker of Better For You candy bars. I've talked about them on the podcast in the past. And they have really nailed the flavor, the texture, the sweetness level of products that we know and love, like a Snickers.

21:36And so that is the reason, I think, that Harkin ended up on shelves at over 3 ,500 Walmart stores across the United States. Katie Lefkowitz, who is the founder of the company, recently posted this on LinkedIn. She's not only on the shelves at Walmart. She is at the checkout aisle where people typically see snack bars and whatnot. So I feel like that is exactly the type of brand that is doing what not only customers want, but retailers want as well. The retailers know that this is a no-sacrifice type of product and that their customers will respect the fact that it is and buy it. Jackie, you got to get your hands on some of these Moonians, especially as a Funyuns lover.

22:23You're going to love these. I eat like three bags of Lesser Evil popcorn a week. They have organic avocado oil, Jackie. I know. Sounds delicious. And they got a spicy version. And Jackie, they have an upside-down cow on the back. Come on. Oh, I love them even more. Look, I'm going to just put that on the inside. So it's not a suck. DNS. DNS. DNS. There it is. Yeah, DNS. Okay, anything else that DNS on the table? DNS. BevNet Live. You got your tickets yet? Definitely DNS. I do have my tickets. I don't have my train tickets yet, but I do have my tickets to BevNet Live. Everyone should have their tickets to BevNet Live.

22:57It's coming up very soon, June 12th and 13th in New York City. Bring the three hardest questions, the ones that are keeping you up at night. The answers are there. You're going to move your business milestone or two as a result of attending. It's also a lot of fun. We can't wait to see you. I mean, the other thing is if, you know, some people are saying, oh, I'm not that great a networker. I'm a little bit shy. You know who can help you with that? Us. We'll help you. If you need intros or you're feeling a little shy, let us make some of those interests for you. That's what we're there for. Mike used to be a very shy networker.

23:31He used to be the kind of guy who would be like sitting in the corner with his chair actually turned and faced in the corner. And then one day someone patted on his shoulder and said, Mike, come with me. And they held his hand and walked him around the room. And then he has since done that for countless other people in the beverage industry and beyond. So, I mean. But the reason my chair was facing the corner, Ray, is because in kindergarten I was a bit of a chatterbox. You got a timeout at BevNet Live. Really? Yeah. Okay, sure did. Yeah, there are so many different experiences at BevNet Live for brands and founders and other industry professionals.

24:10There's sampling opportunities. There's retailer one-to-one meetings. We have the New Breverage Showdown on stage. And a lot of these all have deadlines. So I'd recommend signing up now so you can get into the sample bar. You can sign up for meetings. You can just really take full advantage of everything that BevNet Live has to offer. That's a great point, Jackie. I think that the sooner you sign up. The sooner you register, the better. You're going to have an opportunity to map out your plan for the event, figure out what meetings you'll be able to take, and just know in general how you're going to tackle the event and New York City in the most efficient way.

24:48Because of course, New York City is a big part of the show. You want to be able to do retail check-ins, have meetings with folks in the area, distributors, investors, what have you. So definitely sign up, map out your plan, as Mike pointed out, come with any questions you have, send us a note if you have any questions about the show at all, and we will direct you in the best way possible. jackie you mentioned the sample fridges i am really looking forward to finding products and beverages that make me feel better feel strong feel healthier throughout the show and i really think that if i find a product that has a key ingredient called amuse in it i'll probably drink at least a dozen of those products well maybe not a dozen but yeah well knowing you you'll you'll at least put a dozen in your bag to take home.

25:44And we have the 50-gallon drum of hand sanitizer that you ordered. Exactly. But I do want to point out that Amuse is the presenting sponsor of this episode of Taste Radio. As I mentioned, now more than ever, consumers are looking for ways to boost their immune systems, and Amuse gives them that edge. It is a dietary and food ingredient clinically shown to stimulate immune function at the cellular level. Incorporate Amuse into your innovation strategy and help your consumers optimize their health throughout the year. Learn more at AmuseHealth.com. That's I-M-M-U-S-E Health dot com. Yum. Yum. Can I call it one more product?

26:25Sure. This is the new chocolate mint chip IQ bar. Okay. Which is extremely delicious. Huge fan of mint chip flavored things. and this product does not disappoint. It's got 12 grams of protein, plant protein, one gram of sugar, and it's also enhanced with a bunch of things, MCTs, Lion's Mane, fiber, super tasty. Usually a bigger bar for 12 grams of protein. How many calories is that thing? Hold on here. It's 170 calories. Oh, not bad. So it's pretty dense. It's a 1.6 ounce bar, but yeah, highly recommend. Nice. Jackie is that some hot sauce I see by your side Yeah I always have hot sauce By my side Hot sauce and popcorn Yeah actually have you ever tried putting hot sauce On popcorn because it's delicious That or jalapenos But We got a care package from Kartik from Dusera By the way is Kartik Now like an unofficial Employee of BevNet He's at least a He's a VIP.

27:35Well, he is. He's a VIP for sure. Ultra VIP for sure. Kartik, chill dude. Yeah, he's always looking out, you know, sliding to DMs, like sending us new products. I love it. He sends us other people's products too, like that Diablo. Yeah, so he sent over, I think it's pronounced Jablo. It's a Filipino hot sauce with a punch. Has a cute little devil guy with like punching gloves on in the front. and they say that this is the first Filipino hot sauce produced in the United States. It's really delicious. It's like creamy and gingery. I wouldn't say it's super spicy, but it could, I know you tried it on a taco, Mike.