Mission, Mainstream. How Kuli Kuli Landed Target & Walmart.

0:10Hello friends, I'm Ray Latif and you're tuned into Taste Radio, the leading podcast for entrepreneurs and innovators in the food and beverage industry. In this episode, we're joined by Lisa Curtis, the founder and CEO of Kooli Kooli, who reflects on the brand's evolution from a moringa-based startup to a mainstream superfood brand. What do TikTok, Walmart, and African superfoods have in common? They've all played a role in the remarkable resurgence of Kooli Kooli, the pioneering superfood brand founded in 2014 that introduced Moringa to the U.S. market and is now carried in over 11 ,000 retail stores nationwide.

0:58Once known primarily for its Moringa products, Kooli Kooli has since expanded its portfolio and reintroduced itself with vibrant new packaging, a broader superfood lineup, and a renewed focus on flavor and accessibility. Now found on shelves at Walmart, Target, and other major retailers, Kooli Kooli has traded in-store demos for a digital-first marketing strategy, including leveraging Moringa's surprise moment of virality on TikTok. In this episode, founder and CEO Lisa Curtis shares the behind-the-scenes story of Cooley Cooley's evolution, from navigating pandemic-era disruptions to spearheading a bold brand refresh that helped the company redefine its mission and identity.

1:45She also unpacks what it took to guide the brand to profitability, why shedding the Moringa-only label was crucial, and what she sees as the ultimate key to long-term success in the crowded wellness space.

2:02Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I am honored to be sitting down with Lisa Curtis, who is the founder and CEO of Cooley Cooley. Lisa, it's great to see you again. Great to see you. So we missed each other at Expo West, but I heard it was a fantastic event for you. And I didn't get to see your booth, but the photos that I saw were amazing. And they featured the brand spanking new look for Kooli Kooli, which is awesome. It feels very vibrant, bright, exciting. It feels like a lifestyle brand so much more than it did in the past. And what you had in the past was great. this definitely feels like it is made for the modern consumer, especially at mainstream retailers.

2:47Yes, I will admit as a founder, I was dragged into this kicking and screaming. I loved our old logo. I loved our old packaging. I was like, I don't want to change a thing. And then we went down this rebrand process and I was like, oh, this, this is better. Okay. I love this. Let's do this. And it has turned out so well. So big, big shout out to our designers. Faven did a great job. Well, you've been at this for 10 years and it's hard to, as they say in our industry, kill your darlings. Certainly there are things about your brand that you want to hold on to as long as you can, but change is necessary sometimes.

3:25What do you feel like? What did your designers feel like you really needed to communicate on that front of pack and on the back as well? Yeah. So we've been hearing for years that people talk about our products in the sense of like, oh, I love that moringa powder. I love those pink gummies. I love the like blue blend. And never did they say, I love the Kooli Kooli moringa powder, the Kooli Kooli blend, the Kooli Kooli gummies. And we also knew that they really thought of us, you know, when, if they thought of us at all as the moringa company. And we are now at a place where half of our products don't have Moringa in them, but in fact feature other sustainable superfoods that really meet our mission of climate smart community grown crops that we think are where our world should be headed.

4:18So the rebrand was really about bringing our brand to life and making it clear that we were more than Moringa and really this sustainable superfood brand. It probably helps to have a look like yours now when you're in Walmart. And when we last sat down for Taste Radio, it was in July of 2019. And the title of that episode was How I Got Into My Dream Retailer. And at the time, you were talking about Walmart and how you made your way into that mass chain. You've since gotten into another one that is, I would say, just as big, which is? Target! Target. Congratulations. Yeah. Why is Target so important to you?

5:01You know, I've been trying to get in Target for like, as long as Coolie Coolie has been around. Because I just see the way that Target has made so many brands in our space. Like if you look at Ollie, if you look at Bloom in many respects, like a lot of health and wellness, you know, supplement brands get their real first big break in Target. And I think a lot of our customers shop there and being on that shelf next to Bloom, next to Grooms, next to some like really key players in the industry, just like show that, yeah, we are a brand that is a cornerstone of health and wellness for superfood consumers.

5:43Yeah, I would agree. You used to be next to Energy Shots. Yes. When I first was introduced to Cooley Cooley, you were selling shots of Moringa. It was two-ounce shots that were powered by Moringa. And a lot's changed since. Well, a lot's changed for the brand. A lot's changed for you. And you've been doing this for 10 years. And I mentioned, you know, typically I ask this question at the end of the episodes. I feel like it's appropriate to ask you toward the beginning of this episode, how have you maintained? Have you managed? How have you evolved? Has the brand, you know, lived up to what your vision was for it at the outset?

6:23Starting a CPG company is challenging for a year. Doing it for 10 years, I can't imagine what that's like. But talk about your experience. Talk about your journey. It is a roller coaster. You know, I have to be completely honest. Like we came out of the gate really hard. Like we had a lot of momentum when we first launched in 2014. and then we entered COVID and our revenue got cut in half and it took us literally three years to recover. There were a lot of moments where I was like, I don't know if we're going to make it. Like, I don't know if I'm going to be doing this a year from now. And that's like such a hard thing to be thinking.

7:03And it, it really just came down to like, you know, me and my co-founder are believing that this business should exist, that we have a purpose that is greater than just selling products, that we really owed it to our small farmers and our supply chain to keep going despite all odds. And I joke that we're now a 10-year overnight success in the sense that we're projected to double in revenue this year. So it's been an exciting ride. It's also been a super challenging ride. Are you happy? I am. I'm so happy. I mean, I love learning and growing. And like, I think the really cool thing about growth is that it, it just pushes you in new ways.

7:49Like, I feel like I'm being pushed so much as a leader to like, okay, we built this company up to, you know, 10 million ish in revenue. And now we're nearly doubling that. Like, what does that look like from a team perspective? What does that look like from a leadership perspective? What do I need to do to like, set us up for success. And I think these are important things for me to learn. And they're also like really exciting opportunities for me to like grow as the company grows. Yeah. I think that's the thing that would make me excited if I were an entrepreneur, which is the potential for growth, the potential to lead more people, to employ more people, to help the farmers that you were talking about, to expand access to Moringa or for Moringa to more people.

8:35I think it's also in some ways nerve wracking and can be frustrating in a lot of ways as well. How do you stay even keel? Do you have to, is it important to stay even keel in your business? Oh, it's so important. I mean, it's a marathon, not a sprint, right? Like we are not a, we are not a like snap your fingers, put out some product and the world comes to us. Like that's never been the Cooly Cooly story. Like we have worked so hard for every win that we've gotten. And I find that I really spend a lot of time like ensuring that I have taken care of myself first so that I'm in a place where I can take care of everything else.

9:10So I very adamant my eight hours of sleep. I run every single morning. I eat really, really well. Like even when I'm traveling, I like travel with like, you know, a bunch of superfood powders and like really intense about like not just eating junk food, not trying to like work till midnight and then, you know, wake up at 5 a.m. I need to be in a position where I have the resiliency to take whatever the world throws at me. Some people might say, well, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the cynics out there who are listening might say that. Do you have fun as you're doing this?

9:45I have so much fun. And one of the things that my co-founder and I did a couple years ago when we were in that really hard moment of like, we're stagnating. We're not growing. This is not fun. Like we really kind of went back to the basics and we're like, what makes this fun for us? Like, what do we enjoy doing about this business? And for both of us, we were adventure lovers and we love traveling and we love learning about other cultures. And we specifically love that Kooli Kooli is so connected to these amazing farmers on the other side of the globe. So we spend three weeks out of the year traveling and visiting with them and just like having a great time understanding like what it, you know, what does it look like to like live in Zimbabwe and harvest Baobab?

10:32And what, you know, we're at the end of this end of May, we're going to Mozambique and spending a while there on the ground. And like, that's the stuff that makes me come alive. And I think for both of us, it's like, find the things that make you come alive and like, go do more of that so that you can continue to do all of the other stuff. I love that. Find the things that make you feel alive and do more of it. That's a great piece of advice. And people don't do it enough. I think you tend to find ways to avoid the things that you love sometimes because other things get in the way. But, you know, life throws a lot of curveballs at everyone.

11:05And it's just, how do you manage it? And sometimes those curveballs are good things. Like when Moringa starts trending on TikTok. And in a really strange way, when you reached out. So please tell our audience all about why Moringa started trending and how it really blew up on that platform. Yeah. So it started last year, actually, where we started to notice that our Amazon sales had spiked 70%. Wow. Yeah, I know. And then we noticed that our whole food sales were up 40 to 50%. And then we started to see our Walmart sales also up. And it like, literally our team was like, what is happening? Like what is going on?

11:52And what we figured out is that there is a company from China that had started to sell Moringa capsules online and they were creating AI generated TikTok videos using various like wellness practitioners, like using their likeness without their permission to talk about Moringa and to talk about the benefits of Moringa. And those videos were like hitting millions and millions of views. Like some of them, I think, got like 4 million views. And so it was like ricocheting across the internet. And then people were looking for Moringa and, you know, we're 70 % of the U.S. market for Moringa. So like when they look for Moringa, they find Kooli Kooli.

12:33And so it was this weird moment where we were like, we would never release these videos. We don't actually agree with the claims that they are making in these videos. But we feel good about these customers coming to us. And we feel good about Moringa being more prominent. So it has been kind of a wild thing where, and then like they turned them off for a little bit. Like I think maybe they got some of them shut down. And then right after the election in November, where I think there was just like a general signal of, hey, you can make any claims, put any marketing stuff you want on the internet, nobody's going to stop you.

13:09Then it turned up again in a really dramatic way. And so we saw our Moringa sales turn up pretty strongly. And so there's been like this interesting kind of like Maha intersection with Moringa that has been fascinating to watch. How much of that Maha can you embrace? I embrace anyone who wants to live healthier. I think it is great for all of us to see food as medicine and to pay attention to what we put in our bodies. I think when it starts to get down the road of like questioning vaccines and questioning medications, that's where I stop at the road. So I think, you know, embracing Moringa as like an amazing supplement that like for so many people is a real game changer in their health is awesome.

14:08And I think what we really tried to do was like seeing what was going on in the internet and then making TikTok response videos. So I feel very proud. One of our scientific advisors is a guy named Jed Fahey at Johns Hopkins University. This guy's in his 60, never made a TikTok video in his life. And we're like, Jed, we need to get you on the internet. Like we need you to speak to this. And we worked with him and made a video that got hundreds of thousands of views, really kind of responding of like, here's what we know about Moringa. Here's what the science says. Here's what we don't know yet.

14:40Here's what we see, you know, from various cultures around the globe. And here's what has clinical trials. And so that was a really cool way for us to kind of respond. And then the other thing we did is we actually funded a clinical study with moringa and diabetes. So that was one of the claims that we saw was getting made a lot. And there actually hadn't been a U.S. study on it. There had been a few international. And so we actually just released the results of that. last week. And there's some really promising stuff from people wearing the CGM monitors, monitoring the blood glucose levels, baseline study, and then adding in moringa powder, and that actually helping to really reduce markers of inflammation and also blood sugar levels.

15:27Did you feel like there might've been a bit of risk in not necessarily countering the claims that were out there, but doing a side-by-side or sort of myth versus reality or common misperceptions because there was so much excitement and you didn't want to, you know what I'm saying, you didn't want to stop that flow. You didn't want to make it seem like Moringa was a bit more esoteric than what was already out there. You just wanted people to know more about it. So I guess, how do you balance this desire to put more education out there while maintaining momentum that Moringa already had? It's a tricky balance.

16:02It is definitely a tricky balance. I think for us, what we kind of determined is like, we don't want people coming to Moringa thinking that it's going to fix all of their health problems. Like, I don't really want anybody going to any supplement thinking that it's going to fix all of their health problems. It's not the way our bodies work. And I think that like us taking a bit of a stand and, you know, we did like the TikTok response videos where you sort of play the video that's gone viral and then you give your response to it was like a nice sort of gentle counterpoint of like, yeah, there actually are some great studies on Moringa.

16:42There's actually some really amazing ways that it's used around the world. And here's where we still need to do more research. As I mentioned, you originally sold Shots or my first introduction to the brand was via Shots. You have a whole different kind of product lineup today. When it comes to your innovation strategy, how has that evolved? How have you tested, learned, and finally come to a place where you feel really strongly about this is the best way for folks to consume Moringa and other superfoods? Yeah, it's a really good question. I think we have failed our way forward for 10 years, and I think we're finally in place today where I feel good about our innovation strategy.

17:25I think if I've learned anything is that we need to kill products faster. So we were one of the first to market with wellness shots, like before a lot of the brands that you see on shelf today, we started selling them in 2016. And I think we were too early. I think we were a non-refrigerated product in a set that like fundamentally people look for in the refrigerated section. And I think we didn't taste as good as we should have. and we kind of knew all of these things like three to six months into that launch. Like we kind of knew that it wasn't working and we didn't kill it. We decided to reformulate, which was the wrong answer.

18:08I think similarly, you know, bars were actually the very first product that we launched in the market and we held onto those until last year. We finally killed the bars. Similarly, we did a superfood chocolate bark, something that we launched and it performed super well when it was on discount. And that discount was at a number where we couldn't actually make any money on it. And we had sort of like this hope and dream of economies of scale that never materialized and took too long to kill it. So, you know, I'll tell you about our innovation strategy today. So last year I launched eight new products onto the market and just last month we killed two of them.

18:48So we were trying to be really fast and focused in putting our energy behind the things that are working and killing the things that are not. I love the Bark, by the way. I'm sad to see that go because that was a really good product. But it seems like what fits, the question is what fits into modern consumers' lifestyles? And the lattes in particular, I feel like are a really easy way for people to incorporate Kooli Kooli into their daily lives. And the other part of it that seems pretty intuitive is how to use it. because there are others, other brands that have some that you mentioned that have done some of the work for you.

19:28And I think that helps a lot too. Yeah, totally. I think it's been interesting to see sort of like how the health and wellness consumer has changed and sort of new entrance into the market. I think during COVID, we saw a lot of people come into this like wellness, superfood supplement space saying like, I need to take something. I don't know what it is, that I'm going to like try all these things. And then a lot of them, you know, kind of post COVID were like, Oh, maybe I don't need these things. And then they actually like, Oh, wait, I feel a difference in my life and in my body when I take these, I'm going to hold on to these things.

20:05But a lot of those same customers aren't the like super holistic. I make a green smoothie every morning. They're more on the like, yeah, I want some greens gummies. And maybe I want like a matcha latte that's like super powered by moringa and mushrooms, but I'm not willing to like work that hard to create something from scratch. And that resonates with me, you know, like I, I work a lot. I have two kids. I like don't have time to be super creative in the mornings or really ever. And so I want, I want my superfoods fast and easy and delicious. And I think that's the way that our product line has evolved.

20:43And it's been really exciting to see the way that that has resonated. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more. I was listening to your interview with Monica Watrous, who's our editor for Nosh at Expo West. And it was interesting because you had talked about how Cooley Cooley was known as the Moringa brand, and it was almost synonymous with Moringa, but that it has evolved, the brand that is, to a point where it encompasses more than just that.

21:25It's a superfood brand. Is that something that has been a little bit more challenging for you to let people know that you do compete with or that you can be on the same shelf as a variety of brands? I mean, so as example, when people think about Four Sigmatic, they think, oh, mushrooms, mushrooms, mushrooms. Whereas with Cooley Cooley, it doesn't need to be just that one thing anymore. How has that transition worked for you? Yeah, it's been interesting. I think when we tell people that half our product line doesn't have Moringa in it, their first reaction is like, well, what does it have in it?

22:02which is actually a great question because then we get to talk about all the other ingredients that we're super excited about like baobab i am obsessed with for those who are listening who have not heard of baobab google it it is so cool you've seen it in the lion king it's the tree that refiki hangs out in and it is literally this fruit that is amazing for gut health amazing for skin health and 95 of the world's baobab is grown in sub-saharan africa where it just rots on the ground. So when you think of like an amazing superfood that has so much potential to transform the lives of sub-Saharan African women and provide a really cool new superfood here to the U.S., like I'm leaning in hard.

22:44So most of those products that don't have maring in them have baobab in them. They also have leucuma, which is a really cool plant from Peru that helps to protect the rainforest. They have hibiscus, which I think is like an amazing flower. Like who doesn't want to eat flowers. So it gives me an opportunity to like gush about all the other plants out there that are so, so great for your health. So great for the small farmers who grow them, grown, you know, all regenerative practices. And I think the interesting thing that like, if you look at our packaging, we have kind of evolved, not just the brand, obviously being front and center, but also really trying to lead more with function, both in the naming and in like the beautiful photography on it.

23:26So Marine Glow, for example, is our sea sourced blend with blue spirulina and Baobab. And we really try to showcase this like, oh, it's a beautiful blue drink that like supports skin health and, you know, is in the name of like Marine Glow. It's marine stuff and it gives you a nice glow. And so we have a lot of products like that, where I think people are seeing the benefit and then feeling it for themselves and kind of caring a little bit less about like, is there moringa in it or not? Well, in the name of our podcast, Taste is something we've talked about quite a bit on this show. And sometimes I give founders or just the industry as a whole a little bit of grief because I think taste is one of those things gets overlooked so often, whether it actually be the taste of the products or in the marketing of them.

24:19How do you talk about taste when you are presenting Kooli Kooli or introducing Kooli Kooli to customers for the first time? We talk about how all of our products are designed to either be delicious immediately or to be easily incorporated into something that is delicious. So meringue powder doesn't taste good. I'm just going to put that out there. Like it is a earthy green. If you can imagine like, you know, powdering kale or powdering arugula, like it's a super concentrated green that has so many amazing nutritional medicinal benefits, but like, it's not a donut. It tastes earthy. It tastes bitter.

24:59It tastes spicy. But we have found that there are so many ways that you can make it taste great, that you can add it to your smoothie. You add a little cinnamon, you add a little peanut butter, like it's delicious. And a lot of our like hardcore Moringa consumers, they love the taste. They like literally, they're like, I love that it tastes green because it makes me feel good. That being said, a lot of our newer products like our blends, like you can just mix most of those with water and they actually taste good. Our gummies taste delicious. The biggest question we get with our gummies is like, can I eat the whole bag?

25:32My answer is like, yeah, if you want to eat a$25 bag of gummies, like go for it. That feels great for me. There's nothing in there that's going to hurt you. It's all, you know, amazing, sustainable superfoods. It's probably more than you meant to spend on your like, you know, shopping spree, but that's fine. And then our lattes are really designed for like, you can just add water froth go and they taste like an amazing caffeine free latte that, you know, has real functional benefits behind them. So we've gotten better, gotten better at tastes. I think we, you know, probably like a lot of the brands you're referring to started out being like, we're a wellness brand.

26:12Like we just need to have like nutrition that makes people feel good. It doesn't have to taste good. And then we sort of realized like, no, it has to also taste good. Well, yeah, for sure. And that's why I love the bark so much because it was so delicious. I mean, it's mostly chocolate, but I mean, I could have made money on it. I want to kept the bark. But when you are thinking about that traditional retail and figuring out your demo strategy and getting gummies or lattes or marine glow into people's mouths. What's the strategy, especially when you're thinking about a Target and a Walmart where the whole foods consumer might be a little bit more educated, might know the word moringa, might be embrace superfoods more than those customers.

26:56What's been the best strategy for getting liquid to lips or gummy to gums. Yeah. Yeah. The strategy has changed a lot over the years. I mean, if you would ask me this in 2019, I would have said we are in the stores. We, you know, did 400 demos in Whole Foods alone in 2019, like let alone Sprouts, all the others. And we have changed quite a bit where we are now a lot more digital forward. It's a lot more like how do we use online marketing tools to drive people to stores. So we're doing quite a bit with target.com, walmart.com. Like I think a lot of these retailers have leaned into e-commerce in a pretty powerful way.