Niche To National. The Brands Finding A Better Way To Scale.

0:10Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and a very sullen Mike Schneider. Mike, what's going on over there? I'm not speaking to Jackie at the moment. All right, let's just get this out of the way. Jackie didn't know who Joe Montana was or is. And it led to her calling me an old man. So this will factor into a part of the episode later down the line. But yeah, we'll get into that.

0:50In the meantime, it's great to see everyone. I've been away for a couple of weeks. I was in the SHU, the special housing unit up at Walpole slash Concord. So wherever the penitentiaries are here in Massachusetts. Yeah, we talked about that. We talked about it right now. I know. I know. I was aware. Glad you made it out. I listen to the episodes. I have to. Yeah. Even when you're making time. How? How are you listening? Do they allow you to listen to Taste Radio in there? Actually, it was very kind. Amanda Huang, who's our amazing studio director. Can you tell Jackie that I thought that was funny?

1:17Yeah, okay, Jackie, that was funny. Amanda Huang, our amazing studio director, and who's also our... She's our UX designer. Our UX designer. She called me and accepted the charges and actually played all 15 minutes of last week's episode. Amanda's your one collect call. That's pretty awesome. We had to keep it short so that you could hear it all over the collect call. That's it. Guess what? Joke's on you guys because that collect call costs$1 ,000 and that's the expense of the company. So John is not happy. Can you tell Jackie that I'm going to deny her expense report? Just relax. She doesn't know who Joe Montana is.

1:52It's not of your generation. That's not what this is about. All right. Okay. Not taking back what I said. Okay. So. Well, everything was going really well up until this point. She said they're marketing to old men. Stop. Stop. We'll get to that. We're going to get to that. Everything was going so well because this morning, Mike and I had an opportunity to have breakfast with the brilliant co-founders behind Better Sour. Better Sour is the brand of Better For You gummies made with global flavors. You know, we're big fans of Better Sour. We've talked about them a lot on the podcast. They just make some of the best tasting Better For You candy out there.

2:32And they brought us some really interesting treats. they were in town in Boston because they were visiting Boston University. Boston University is now carrying at least five of the convenience stores at the university are now carrying Better Sour. God, I thought you were going to explain, you were going to go into like Boston University, a third-rate university. Never mind. Coming from a BC guy, it's not surprising. I mean, we're a third-rate, I don't know. I've explained my distaste for BU many, many times in this podcast. Guys, there is not a third-rate university in Boston, okay? Every university in Boston is pretty top class.

3:09We're getting off topic. Anyway, Better Sour is being sold. You don't know what third rate is. They keep those in Miami of Ohio. There you go. At five locations at BU. And BU is a much better school than it was when I went there. And more expensive. Yeah, I assume the caliber of students there are now going to appreciate the quality of a product and a brand like Better Sour. So anyway, that's good news. Also, good news that they shared with us, Bella and Samira, is that Better Sour is now going to be sold at Total Wine stores in the checkout aisle, which is pretty awesome. Also, this news was announced a few weeks ago.

3:45The brand's guava and calamansi flavor is now available in the skies. You can buy it on United flights to and from Hawaii. So a lot going on with Better Sour. But the biggest news of the day is going to happen in about a month. or at least it's going to unfold in about a moment. That's that Sprouts, one of the leading natural retailers in the country, is going to be carrying an exclusive Better Sour flavor that is their new heart cherry variety. So good. We got a taste of it. We got a sneak peek. And I got to tell you, I don't know if I'm supposed to share this. We got a sneak peek and taste of this before some of the employees at Better Sour.

4:25Sorry, Better Sour employees. Yes. So we are humbled and honored that Bella and Samira shared this with us. We tasted it at breakfast this morning. Should I tell them that you dropped a couple on the floor? No, I dropped one in my ketchup. Yeah, you should have eaten that one. Yes, but it was fine. I did eat it. Okay. This to me is their best flavor yet. This tart cherry variety, it's very much a mainstream flavor. And I love tart cherry and they dialed up the sour on this and all their other products. So I think this is just amazing. The sour is indeed better. Yeah. Very, very good. You should try it, John.

4:59It's pretty good. I mean, I don't know about it being their best flavor because I really think that the guava calamansi lime is special. What the hell do you know, old man? I mean, it is. All right, here you go. I'll try these in a few minutes. So I'm passing some over to John. But anyway, yes, these are going to be sold exclusively at Sprouts on October 1st. I was looking at this at breakfast this morning, and I don't know why this just occurred to me, but I really believe this. better sour to me is the poppy of the candy category. It feels like the next generation of the candy space. You think it's busting right through the clutter.

5:36Well, just like poppy represents the next generation of soda in that category. And I think just everything about it, the look, the feel, the tastes, the branding, the positioning, the two grams of sugar, 70 calories per pack. It's just, there's so many parallels and similarities to me with poppy. The last time we saw Bella was in, was it May? May at our Taste Radio Austin meetup. Yeah, she was blonde then. Yeah, she did have blonde hair. It was, yeah. Anyway, it was wonderful to see her. I just want people to know if you see her now. She looks different now? Yes. She's a brunette now. I'm not sure why we're talking about this.

6:14But anyway, Bella and I sat down for an interview at the meetup, which is fantastic. And we're hoping to see a bunch of you, if not all of you, if you happen to live in California or the UK, at our upcoming meetups in both of those places. September 16th in San Diego at BevNest WCB. That's our West Coast branch. Big thanks to our partners for the San Diego meetup. That's naturally San Diego and Source Technology. Two days later, we'll be in San Francisco. September 18th. That is going to be an incredible meetup at the American Industrial Center. That's in the dog patch neighborhood of San Francisco.

6:57Huge thanks to our partners for that event. Big Dopamine PR, Uncracked, Yerba Madre, and Forager Project. And then we're going to be hopping across the pond to the UK by boat. Might take us a couple months. We're going to land right on the Thames The docks of the Thames Do you want a history lesson on the Thames? I can give you one I'd rather have one on the Thames You need to explain what it is In case people are wondering Is it a runway? Is it a street? It's the 41st longest river in the world I don't know if that's true or not But anyway I'm going to go with no Can we get a history lesson on Grimsby Town while you're at it?

7:42The London meetup is happening At the offices of Trip On October 2nd, it's a Thursday. Trip headquarters are in Notting Hill. And we are delighted that our partners for that event are, of course, Trip and the wonderful brand known as Delicious. So if you're interested in meeting up with us at these meetups, please register. Very easy to do so. Tasteradio.com slash meetups. All right, before we get into samples, I want to bring up another notable person that we met at our Chicago meetup last month. Oh, cool. Another person who thinks that BU is a third-rate university, I might add. Matt Joyce? Yeah.

8:27Did he go to BC? He did. Okay, Matt Joyce. So Matt Joyce is the founder and CEO of TUM. Now, I know John and I are humongous fans of TUM. It's a Lebanese-style garlic dip brand. They make more than one. They have a bunch of flavors. Yes. Amazing stuff. And I know garlic dip sounds like it's not for everyone, right? It sounds tasty to me. It sounds tasty to me, but I think the idea of just garlic can probably throw some people off. I think the confusing part about it is if you just look at it, your mind might go to hummus. Or maybe labneh? Like, you know, Yaza. Maybe, but it looks more like hummus partially also because it's like a clear, tub.

9:10And I think Labna is typically in an opaque tub, but it has way, way, way more punch than a hummus. Yeah. I mean, it's ubiquitous in the Middle East, just like hummus in Lebanon are ubiquitous in the least. And it's growing in popularity here and Tomb is leading the way. So if you go to a Wegmans or, you know, a lot of different retailers that the brand is in, you'll find them next to the hummus in the Lebanon and so on and so forth. So when I saw Matt in Chicago, he clued me into an upcoming brand refresh. And it looks amazing. I always thought their packaging looked great in the first place.

9:42It pops. It really pops. But now it pops even more. And it was this news, this brand refresh was recently covered by our very own Lucas Southard, who not only covered the brand refresh, but in his article highlighted the amazing growth that Toome has been seeing in recent years. So it's very much under the radar growth. Matt has not been very public forward about everything that's been going on with the brand. He's let it kind of speak for itself. I didn't even meet him. I didn't even see him there. I mean, talk about under the radar. You talk with everyone else during my interviews. Big meetup.

10:18Brand's been around for a decade at this point, which is a testament to how much Matt and the brand have continued to push and persevere over the years. And I think it's just one of those reminders that some ideas and most ideas, in fact, in CBG, take time to build them, you know? Yeah. And I think for a somewhat niche concept, at least in this country, Matt has been very thoughtful about how he has entered into relationships with distributors and retailers and co-packers. His original vision was to make Tomb a sort of better for you or alternative to ketchup. It is a very versatile dip in condiment.

11:01And so he talks in the article about how Toome hit its inflection point in June of 2022 when Whole Foods moved it from a Midwest regional brand to nationwide distribution. And I think he probably learned quite a bit about how consumers perceive the product, how they're using it, and incorporated all of that into this brand refresh. Now it's very front and center. You have a little garlic guy. I forget the name of the little mascot that they have right now, but it's very clearly spelled out the original garlic dip. And so kudos to him for, you know, again, taking something that was pretty niche and turning it into something that is becoming more and more in demand, not just his brand, but I think across the board, you're seeing more and more of these types of dips come to market.

11:50I think it's interesting that he basically stayed the course with his brand as well. and instead of trying to lean into like some sort of middle eastern type branding and trying to be an educator which generally doesn't work well you know obviously as you pointed out there's this sort of bigger trend of these types of products becoming more mainstream and there being more awareness and use of them so he's got a great looking brand and something that he didn't compromise in the market it sort of caught up to him almost, which is cool. Yeah. And one other note on this, and this was really interesting in the story.

12:29He talked about accessibility from a price point perspective and the perspective of, okay, what are people going to pay for this? And so a quote in the article, people will balk at a refrigerated dip that has a six on the front of the price. This isn't hummus. Fresh California garlic is a lot more expensive than chickpeas, but we still need to be accessible. So I think that's an important takeaway from success and the growth that Tomb has had that yes, you know, some people will be willing to pay a premium, but if you want to truly make it an accessible product, you got to get that price point in line with what people are willing to pay.

13:02I think they'll walk to the store and they'll talk about it too.

13:08Anyway, congrats to Matt Choice and love what you're doing. Matt doesn't need a celebrity or pro athlete endorser. He's got the little Tomb guy. Just check the story out on Nosh and you'll see what I'm talking about. Here we go. Okay, here's what we were talking about with Mr. Joe Montana. Okay, so there's a brand out there called Gold Bar Whiskey. Gold Bar Whiskey is based in San Francisco. It's a distillery, and they recently announced the launch of its first RTD cocktail, which is a take on a Moscow mule. It's called the Gold Bar Whiskey Double Gold. 12-ounce can, contains ginger, lime, a splash of orange juice, 8 % ABV.

13:45So, of course, who do they enlist to help promote this? Mr. 49ers himself, Mr. San Francisco 49ers himself, Joe Montana. Four-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback. Are you going to offend 49ers fans by saying that he's Mr. 49ers? He's Mr. 49er more than Jerry Rice is. He really is. Jerry Rice is a legend in his own right. I'm just trying to get you to put gas in the fire. No. But I think to get to your point, your actual point, Jackie, who if we were doing a Venn diagram of likely consumers of gold digger, whatever it's called. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. No. And not, it's, Jackie's probably not a target consumer.

14:24I don't think I'm a consumer. She's not the old man they're targeting. So it's fine. They understand their consumer. I see where you're going with old people and gold diggers. It's actually called Gold Bar Whiskey. Oh, sorry. Gold Bar. Gold Bar Whiskey. And that feels kind of old school though, you know? Like Gold Rush. RTD is called their double gold. So anyway, they enlisted Joe Montana to help promote this. He's an ambassador. And as, you know, nicely as I'm talking about this brand. I do feel like it is a little, I don't know. Joe Montana, an absolute legend. I just wonder when I see brands align with or pay in some cases a celebrity endorser, whether they be an athlete or a foreign musician or an actor, you know, especially when those folks aren't necessarily current or as visible as say a Shaq, who has endorsed pretty much everything in every industry possibly endorse i don't know if the public is going to appreciate it as much as folks think they might i mean but you all know who he is there's a sense of nostalgia you all are older men and i think that you can't you can't bring it back in after you say we're old men i just want to keep reiterating that you are older here's how i would suggest looking at this yes okay joe montana at one point was winning superbowls yes he would be i would say a mainstream influencer yes celebrity yes back in the day and i think there's a certain point where especially someone who's a pro athlete who still has some appeal they're effectively like a micro influencer and that's fine i'm assuming he does not charge the same amount of money to endorse something that he did back then.

16:10Or maybe he does, but there's inflation. I don't know, whatever, but it's probably cheaper, all things considered. So that's what you got there. There's also some nostalgia likely for the people who are making the product who want to be associated with their hero. Okay, fair enough. There you go. At least there is some alignment in that this brand is based in San Francisco, where I believe Joe Montana is based. Then that helps too. And he is a legend in the region. He had mass appeal too. That's the other thing. Unless you were a Dallas Cowboys fan. Okay. But in this case, it's also, I guess, it depends on the distribution.

16:45Like where are they planning to go with this product, right? Like if they're trying to sell this product in, say, Texas. Well, I don't know if it's going to go for him. Well, then they just get rid of Joe Montana and get somebody from the Cowboys. I don't know. Yeah. Like if they sold in Massachusetts, wouldn't they do like Doug Flutie or something? That would be that. It would be that level. They'd get Nomad. Nomad. They get Nomad kid. He was better than Gita. I'm telling you, the guy was better than Gita. You're not going to see the video. And A-Royd, too. A-Royd. Oh, my God. Don't get me started.

17:15I just almost passed out on my laptop of FaceTime. Nomad. That Doug Flutie reference took me out. Well done. Okay. We're old. All right. Let's move on from this hot bottle of garbage. Tell Zachy that one was really funny. It was really funny. That was good. Okay. So you guys talked about Spindrift's decision to 86. It's the Spindrift spiked line. But you have some Spindrift in front of you, John. What are you sipping on there? Yeah, I'm not sipping on a Spindrift spike, just to be clear. But I've got their cranberry raspberry, which they sent to us in a kind of ridiculous looking 30 pack that they make.

17:57It looks like an old school suitcase of beer. Why is that ridiculous? Oh, it just looks, sorry, it only, I'm sure it's for like club stores. I'm not questioning the business decision. It just looks sort of ridiculous to be holding like what I guess is more commonly probably used as a container for cheap beer. It's kind of hard to dig yourself out of a hole when you don't have a shovel. I wish they would treat us like Logan Airport with those, though. I mean, just keep sending those soup cases our way. They're really tasty. but it just looks kind of fun. Okay. Well, it looks delicious. And I do think that there's probably some people who will take a 30 rack of Spindrift out on the boat because people aren't drinking as much as they used to, perhaps.

18:41Maybe that's something going on there. But anyway, no, that looks amazing. And guess what? During my time in the can, I did have some Spindrift spiked, amazingly, you know? How did you make it yourself?

18:58Boy, Jackie is on fire. Jackie is absolutely on fire. What do they call it? Is it hooch, Ray? No, it's Pruno. Pruno is the prison booze. She just brought it back to last week. Anyway, Spinderspikes, RIP, but I still have a couple cans. That is a fantastic product, and I'll miss it. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more. Surprise, surprise. Mike has a bunch of THC drinks. I got weed, yeah. These both really kind of jumped out at me for different reasons.

19:40And the first one that I have here is called Woodstock. And the interesting thing about Woodstock is that the doses are different across the flavors. I've got one called chill and one called dream. And also the cannabinoids are different as well. So you have to really look close at these and they have some other functional ingredients as well like l-theanine and cordyceps in the yuzu ginger which is called chill and has a 2.5 milligrams of thc 10 of cbd and 2.5 of cbc which i'm not even familiar with craft brewer's conference anybody cbc yeah cbc cannabinoid okay it's a cannabinoid and woodstock dark berries dream flavor has l-theanine and reishi five of THC, 15 of CBD, and five of CBN, which I know is for sleep.

20:31Christian Broadcasting Network. Yeah. Let's try this. Canadian Broadcasting. I'm just guessing. CBC is cannabicromine. Yes. It has anti-inflammatory properties, pain relief, mood enhancement, antimicrobial. Sounds like a lot of good things. One thing, can I ask you guys a question for the THC beverage drinkers here? Do you care that it has adaptogens in there? I don't. I think it's kind of strange that it has additional functional ingredients. But that said, adaptogen beverages have so many functional ingredients in the cocktail of mushrooms that you get. It's sort of strange because you don't really know exactly what it's going to do for you, do you?

21:12After all this time of consuming adaptogens, I hope you know a little bit of what it was supposed to do for you. I know what they're supposed to do for you, but what is the right dosage of lion's mane, cordyceps, and reishi that should go together? This one, at least, you know, this one's only cordyceps and L-theanine and then all the cannabinoids. So I don't know. I mean, look, I think it's fun. Yeah. I think generally it just sounds like mood boosting would be like overarching function. You'd hope for the best that they all mix together and give you some happiness. Well, I'm hoping so. Well, I mean, you think it's fun, but it's probably very expensive to include those ingredients in there.

21:47So I'm asking because if you eliminated those adaptogens, would it make any difference in your purchasing intent? No, not for this, because I would buy this for the THC and CBD content. And then maybe I would be curious about the CBC, whatever that's supposed to do for me, but it would mostly be THC and CBD as a cannabis consumer. What about you, Jackie? Yeah, I would agree. Oh, wait, wait. Could you ask Jackie, please? I talked to Jackie. I offer beverages that have multiple cannabinoids because that's supposed to give you just like a better high and a better experience. But as far as outside of that, like I'm not looking for any other adaptogens if I'm looking for the THC.

22:27Maybe if it was like a CBD beverage and I'm just purely looking for like the functionality, not like the head high. But this is also Delta 9, Jackie, too. So what's the entourage effect that you've experienced with Delta 9? The quote, bud light of cannabis. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely like a chiller buzz. You're not going to get like stoned out of your mind with Delta 9. Or hit the giggle boxes. Yeah. It's hard. The giggles. Before you get to these danger shots that you're holding in your hand right now, I want to see some. Jackie's got some bottles popping up from under. Oh, I do? At the bottom of her screen there.

23:01Yeah, I can see them. What are those? I have golden root. So these are pretty much ginger beers, but they call it ginger beer reimagined. and it's very simple ingredients. This one is the Yuzu Ginger Lemongrass and this is Lemon Ginger Jalapeno. Ooh, that sounds good. They use real ginger. It's just sparkling water, lemon juice, lime juice, ginger juice, some cane sugar. Very, very simple. I think it's interesting. I love like how clean the packaging is on the front and how it pops. Ginger beer really isn't like big on the packaging at all. It's like kind of a footnote of like ginger beer reimagined.

23:40So I think that's kind of an interesting positioning for them because at first I didn't know what this was. Well, I mean, it looks like a lemonade. Yeah, it does look like a lemonade, maybe like a craft soda. Yeah. I mean, it's very yellow. Yeah. So it doesn't necessarily look like a ginger beer per se. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm excited to try them. They look good. And they also suggest that they'd make a great mixer for a cocktail. Now you're speaking to me. All right. I want to thank the founder of a brand called Elephant Green Chili Chutney. Elephant Green Chili Chutney was recently highlighted in an episode of Taste Radio's Elevator Talk.

24:23Elevator Talk is the series that profiles early stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. We highlight five brands per episode. Each episode features either food brands or beverage brands. If you are interested in participating, just head to tasteradio.com slash elevator talk and you can fill out the details and we'll get you in an episode. Anyway, it's going to happen. It's going to happen for you. The co-founder of the brand is Tanzi Terrell. And Tanzi was just absolutely a riot, an amazing guest on the show. Elephant green chutney is, as they describe it, the first of its kind Indian-inspired green chili chutney made with signature chilies.

25:06It's a condiment that features zesty, sweet, and spicy flavors. Only six ingredients and zero chemicals. I am just delighted and thrilled that Tanzi sent us some of this product. I have a small jar for whoever wants to fight over it, John, or... Oh, thanks. I get the big jar. But I mean, the way that Tansy spoke about this and the versatility for this product just made me smile and made me so excited to try it. And here it is. The jar is in my hand. So thank you so much for being with us on Elevator Talk, Tansy. And thank you so much for sending me a jar and a small jar for Mike and John to fight over.

25:44All right. You can talk about your shot. More cannabis. Yes, more cannabis there. Well, the Woodstock tastes great, by the way. 10 grams of sugar. So the other one that I have here is Tonic, which is a maker of both shots and RTD beverages. And I think they also, they make, most of them are THC infused. One of them is a little confusing because it has no THC, but it has similar packaging. This is a really striking black package. The flavors just pop right off. So I, I'm going to open the Maui Wowie. How much of this stuff have you had already? None, Ray. Okay. None yet. Here we go. I'm just having a sip.