Pitching An 'Empire' Builder: Hover, Purple Drop, Atomico, Ola Mate & ChamCham

29:42Food too. I mean, this really pairs beautifully with food. I found that, you know, it makes an amazing mixer. It's really delicious with a lot of different kinds of food. And I think if you explore the foodie world, that's how you can sort of resonate a little bit more with an outer demographic outside of, you know, kind of the Latina crowd if you're trying to expand beyond that. Thank you. Great discussion. We need to continue this discussion probably offline, but I'm really excited for Purple Drop. Maria Roger, great job launching this brand. I know there's still a long way to go, but please, if you can just keep us in the loop about what's going on.

30:23I mean, it's so important for folks to stay in touch with our team at BevNetNosh and Taste Radio. You know, we try to connect with you as much as possible, but if there's something new that's going on with the brand, new retail, distribution, new packaging, just please let us know. We want to amplify that message. We want to talk about what you're doing. We want to help in any way we can. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ray. Thank you, Rebecca. appreciate it thank you thank you both let's get on with the program with our next guest he is kevin broadwick he's the head of mission control for atomico kevin it's great to see you go ahead thanks for having me on right head of mission control for atomico i assume that means founder of a really interesting brand yes yeah that uh we wanted to get creative everywhere we could within the brand.

31:11It start was also a bit peculiar. I was about four years into my first company and literally dreamt the brand in the middle of the night, woke up at 2 a.m. and sketched out the brand label down to the name and said, at some point, I need to bring this thing to life because even coming up with a name for a company is hard. So after we were acquired, I retired for about 25 minutes, which was fun. And then went ahead and launched the company. But we've taken a really unique approach to the start of this company, where we've built out a platform for space and science education. And so if you go to our social channels, you'll see we have about a quarter of a million followers and really high engagement rates off of these little educational reels.

32:07And so our idea or mission was we wanted to make learning about space and science and health fun and engaging and moreover really accessible to everybody. So stacked on top of this platform comes this better for you functional beverage. And we orbit in science terms in the Goldilocks zone where we're more flavorful than a traditional sparkling water, but not super sweet or over caffeinated or over electrolyted like a lot of the emerging sodas and energy drinks. So we have a bit more juice, for example, than like the good folks over at Spindrift. And then we've lightly sweetened it with white grape juice and organic blue agave.

32:55And then we've infused it with 12 essential vitamins and antioxidants and added a low level of electrolytes into it. So the sort of goal was we wanted to have something that didn't have like a super specific use case or time of day that you would enjoy it and that you actually wanted to finish the whole can. So some of the beverages out there we found was like the first few sips were good and then you were kind of over the flavor profile. And so we've wrapped this whole thing up into a being socially responsible. responsible. So 1 % of our revenue goes to fund scholarships for underprivileged kids to be able to attend a NASA space camp.

33:40And I know that this trick works because I sent my kid to space camp for three years, and now he's a senior at the University of Michigan in aerospace engineering. So we're really focused more on probably our mission than anything else on making education, you know, fun and engaging.

34:00well no offense to anyone else who's ever appeared on elevator talk but that was a heck of an introduction to a brand uh thank you so much kevin that wow wow wow wow um let's just let's just uh go brass tacks in terms of where you are right now you you just onboarded a major retailer tell us a bit about that yeah so we just stepped into fresh time markets uh so we are in all 70 of their locations, and we are into our first week of doing in-store demos. So we'll get our first real round of insight into consumer preference, what they like and don't like. So some of the doors we didn't aren't running the demo.

34:41So we'll have real data, what happens when you do in-store trialing and don't. And with my other companies, we never did in-store demos. The products were mostly HBA-centric and not beverage. So this is an interesting step for us to be able to get the real world data. And then we've picked up three DSD partners in the U.S. and not to overcomplicate our story, but we also have picked up a large partner internationally and we've made it an international version of Atomico based on flavor profiles in Asia. Rebecca, I want to start with where we left off with Maria and Roger and talk about hierarchy of communication, because there's a lot going on with Atomico, all really good and compelling.

35:34But what really matters to that retail buyer? What's going to matter to that end consumer? Yeah, I mean, I think I have more questions than anything. So in the sense of like, you know, who is this? like the graphics lead to me sort of semi, you know, juvenile, is this like to get kids excited about, you know, science? Is this for like, you know, curious adults? I just want to know more about what their bigger vision is for the brand. And then that would dictate sort of what that hierarchy would contribute to. And it's an excellent question. So we purposely took kind of a fifties and sixties art style so that we would appeal to an older demographic also.

36:14But we're really trying to appeal to all kind of space, current space and science nerds out there. And what we found is, you know, the momentum around space is enormous. So Artemis launched, like everybody in the world watched that. We've all been kind of watching the SpaceX huge IPO. You know, the three biggest movies this year will be Project Hail Mary, Star Wars and Dune at the end of the year. and then confidentially there's rumor mill that atomica will launch a couple more flavors so a lot of big things happening in space and so we are going to get kind of naturally gravitational pull from kind of younger generations to you know college age but we've seen on shelf also you know people that are older that are quite curious so even on the product if you hit the qr code it takes you to a fun factoid page and we'll have rewards for continually taking that kind of step.

37:13But you're right that we have a demographic question mark. And what we're seeing is it's wide, but it's kind of more about a specific kind of person that's interested in space and science. I can see this actually even playing well in gaming communities and people underestimate the value of gaming communities, I mean, they're substantial and, you know, they definitely consume quite a bit of, you know, either beverages and snacks. And I can see sort of, if you targeted that demographic as well, this actually playing really well with them, it's more about where does this live on a shelf, right? Are you next to vitamin water?

37:50Are you next to mineral, like mineral related waters? Are you next to functional other beverages, like adaptogens? I guess that's sort of like, I think there's a question mark still there just based on sort of the packages is great. I love it. It's super fun. I think you're going to have to play around with a couple different, you know, sections in the store to see where it really lives. I also can really see this playing well in the, in the like the juice box section, right? So like, are you giving kids an alternative to something a little bit healthier? It's less competitive in that space. And I think that those are the things that as you kind of scale out and do some small test runs, that's what you would want to sort of, you know, challenge it in different areas of the store and sort of see where it's resonating.

38:34Yeah, that's great feedback. In our head, we, you know, envision kind of being sat next to the, you know, olipops and poppies of the world and the other functionals, but would like to see what happens when we are in other areas. Right now at Fresh Time, we are on an end cap. So we're getting a lot of really good exposure. And some of that, you know, will be picked up for back to school. So we'll get some good insight into if, you know, how young it's really polarizing. And yeah, no, it's very exciting. Kevin, you talked about Spindrift or you at least referenced Spindrift when you were talking about Atomico.

39:16And I drink Spindrift because I love the flavor, because it's relatively low calorie. But why would someone, in terms of taste or nutrition, want to pick up a can of Atomico? What's really compelling? What's getting them not just to buy the product the first time, but to make it a part of their daily ritual? Yeah, we were big drinkers of Spindrup, too. And also, as a company, we've admired them for a long time. We feel like they did a lot of things right. and so for us it was more about we wanted something a little bit more full in flavor and a little bit sweeter than Spindrift and didn't want to achieve that with using stevia or monk fruit or any obviously of the artificial sweeteners out there so we added the white grape juice and blue agave to give it a little bit more full flavor but yeah I wouldn't take anything away from Spindrift, I would say we are kind of Spindrift plus.

40:17So we have, you know, a little bit more flavor than they do. But also, you know, not to get too technical, but when it comes to things like oxidative stress and, you know, did you eat all of your veggies? You know, this is a nice component of our beverages that we do individually have to add all 12 of our vitamins, you know, into the beverage. And then the electrolyte blend, we have a low level electrolytes Like people, unless you're like a world-class athlete, some of these electrolyte beverages are way too high in electrolytes for the everyday user. But we're providing just enough to give you, you know, some semblance of balance.

40:56So it's somebody that says, hey, I like having juice in my beverage. I like having, you know, this extra benefit and a use case that's also not complicated. I don't have to have it between, you know, 10 o 'clock and, you know, 12 p.m. Otherwise, I'm going to be up all night. So there's no caffeine in the profile. So we've tried to make it an easy storyline for somebody to consume. Once again, they never give us enough time on this show. I'm going to talk to the team about trying to add another 5-10 minutes because we need more time. But this is such an interesting brand, Kevin. And congratulations on what you've built.

41:37And just, you know, kudos to what you're doing from a social and sort of charitable perspective. I really think it's important. And I think getting people excited about astronomy and space is so fun. And when I'm looking at your Instagram page, it really gets me happy. It makes me happy. So thanks so much for doing what you're doing. And please stay in touch. If there's something we can do to help you along your journey, just let us know and we'll do our best. Will do. Thank you very much for having me. Nice to meet you, Rebecca and Ray. Thank you. On to our next guest for this episode of Elevator Talk.

42:13We have AJ Scordillo, who is the founder of Olamate. AJ, it's great to see you. Nice to see you as well. Thanks for having me. Olamate, I think I know what you make. I think most people think they know what you make. But what do you make? Okay, so Olamate is a sparkling Yerba Mate beverage. So it has natural caffeine from Yerba Mate, but it also is infused with some functional ingredients such as altheanine to help smooth out the caffeine. And then lion's mane mushroom to increase focus and cognition as well. I have seen so many new Yerba Mate brands come to market over the last few years. I'm wondering what's going on.

42:55Why did you start this brand, AJ? So I started it because my grandmother's from argentina so i remember vividly as a kid sitting around the table enjoying the hot hot mate um and then also just seeing the tailwinds from a lot of progress from the you know guayaki brand the leader in the space um so i thought it was a unique opportunity yeah i i think more and more people are becoming familiar with yerba mate and the benefits of it and um the fact that it does offer a different form or at least a different type feeling of caffeine than what people have traditionally come to expect. But now with so many new brands coming to market, and of course, the market leader, as you referenced, Guayaki, now known as Yrma Madre, it can be kind of hard to break out.

43:44So Rebecca, having said all that, what are your initial thoughts on Olamate in terms of, you know, sort of differentiation within this, this small category, small but growing category. I will say this, I did start seeing it everywhere in New York City. So they did build some brand presence there. I don't know who they're currently working with distribution wise, but I had started seeing it around and was asking some of the stores about it. I think they're working on it. Okay, got it. So they, you know, I think the main thing for this product, to me, the lion's mane is what sticks out right so we have a lot of competitors in the space far as i know i don't believe any of them have um any kind of functional mushroom combination benefits and i think that that's going to be really key to telling your story and then how does lion's mane interact with a natural you know uh like cleaner caffeinated beverage right like what are the benefits there And how do you communicate that not only on the shelf, but on the packaging?

44:48A lot of people, you know, I think generally they overlook how much they really need to communicate certain things on their packaging far as hierarchy. It is something that I would look into maybe owning a little bit more predominant, let's say, on the packaging, because it is really going to be one of your bigger distinguishing factors. For sure. Yep. The Yerba Mate category is going to become a billion dollar category by 2030. and then obviously you know like functional ingredients are just you know that category is just increasing exponentially each year was that a conscious choice to combine the two where you took kind of a couple leading categories that were gaining some traction in you know popularity throughout the market we was that your intention to kind of combine those to make something a little bit more unique yeah yeah that was part of it and then also to just lean in as much as we can into like that steady focus state um so i think uh by combining both that gives us a little bit of a leg up from just a pure yorba mate beverages yeah you can really own the focus aspect of things versus just the clean energy system you know uh sustained part of it 100 yeah how much does the organic formulation uh appeal to retail buyers and your consumers or is your USDA organic certified, AJ?

46:11So how does that factor into your sales strategy? Well, I think it's great for now because it allows us entry into that tea sort of functional beverage space, which a lot of the beverages there are organic certified. So when you're sitting next to the other Yerba Matés, you want to make sure that you're organic certified. Yeah, for sure. And according to my notes here, You just picked up distribution in Wegmans, which is one of my favorite retail stores. Are you national there? Are you just a handful of stores? We're in about 105 of their stores. So we're just super excited about that. Again, they were looking to grow their Yerba Mate category specifically, and we just happened to come across the buyer.

46:58And yeah, we just were rolling out right now into 105 stores. Okay. We got to pause there. You just happened to meet the buyer at Wegmans. You got to talk about that. Oh, well, I didn't meet them in person, but I hired a food broker who's been really great, and they made the intro. Okay, so what was the primary selling point? I know they wanted to increase the size of their Yerba Mate section, but what really resonated with that buyer? I think what resonated was, okay, we want to, Yoramate is a growing category. We only have Guayaki at this point. And then I sent them the samples. From what I heard, the buyer liked the design and then also enjoyed the taste.

47:46So I think that's what kicked it off. Okay. Well, design and taste go a long way, but Velocity is the name of the game. Rebecca in a place like Wegmans. And actually, I should ask, AJ, are you in a cold case or are you ambient shelf? Oh, no, we're ambient shelf. And then, oh, the other thing was our approach when we entered market about one year ago was different. I hired a salesperson and literally like man in the van opened up about 500 independent stores in New York City, Queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan. Yeah. So I think that also probably swayed the buyers, too, because There was proof of concept there as well.

48:27Well, it sounds like that investment paid off. And Rebecca, I'm sure you've met men in vans or a man in a van. Yes, I think that is actually the literal term. We are the man in the van. But, you know, again, you know, getting into 100 plus Wegman stores is awesome. Getting pull off shelf is slightly more difficult. And again, going back to that same conversation we had earlier in the show, you know, what are ways that aj can enhance uh the presence of olamate in wegman such that you're not just you know on shelf you're getting off shelf in a big way uh i haven't worked with wegmans in a long time but from what i recall they're edlp so they're everyday low price and i believe you can't run you know significant promos because generally that's obviously one targeted way you can try to get some pull without demo support.

49:21I think, I believe that they still allow demos. No demos. No demos after COVID, yeah. Yeah. So I think, you know, one of your only options is, you know, where are the stores going to be located? Can you geotarget? Can you come up with kind of a creative marketing campaign to, you know, maybe it's a scavenger hunt or something along those lines. Go buy it at Wegmans, send me a photo of your receipt and, you know, win X or something, right? Like, You might have to get creative when it comes to driving pull to make sure that you're proving out, you know, concept and velocity with them. Because EDLPs are challenging that way.

49:56They're great, right? You're just sort of at an everyday low price, but you don't have the capability to knock a buck off or do a scan back or, you know, two for X, right, where you can drive some trial and, you know, build out a bigger shelf presence. So I would see if there's some way that you could work on any displays, maybe it's seasonal and, you know, guarantee a certain number of something like maybe, you know, that's where you do lean into, you know, online presence and have people come by it at that specific door. And then they get reimbursed or something like that. You know, you can get creative on the back end of how you support it.

50:30yeah yeah i was gonna um well i'm in the process of hiring like a team of creators and making sure that they're local each one of them is local to wegmans and then having them film themselves like discovering the product in the local wegmans posting it to their social media um yeah uh hey jay you're it's according to my notes you're 10 months in for olamate is that right? 11 months now. Okay, 11 months. It seems like you're pretty up to speed on, you know, building a beverage brand and what you need to be successful. I mean, certainly, you've shown some traction as well. How did you learn about this industry?

51:08How are you, you know, getting acquainted with the things that you need to know to be successful? I just dove, like, headfirst into it. I own a digital marketing brand. That's a company that I run as well. And I've just been immersing myself and when you have to go out there and and sell directly to stores like I feel like the feedback is instant so that's something that I'm grateful for so my salesperson would call me up and she would be like I think we have to change this this you know they're they're telling me this about the can the look or the taste or so I felt like that was like that communication was was really instant for me and are you going to the stores as much as you're relying on your broker to do so um so in terms of going to the stores i have my my one salesperson i hired full time and then i also hired someone full time as a demo uh person so she's constantly going to you know the top 50 stores in in the new york metro area yeah and last thing price point per can um we like to sit at uh anywhere between 299 to 349 right around there all right yeah well we're recording this episode uh the day of the big england argentina game the semi-final of the world cup i'm sure you're going to be tuning in um and then of course if they argentina wins that game sunday's the big day so uh who knows when we actually publish this episode it could be a really happy day for AHA, or it could be a slightly disappointing one.

52:49But regardless, I'm thrilled that we had this opportunity to chat. Thank you so much for taking the time. And please stay in touch. Let us know when you are getting into new stores. If you have a press release or any additional information about that Wegmans launch, please just send it our way because we want to talk about it on BevNet. We want to highlight what you're doing. On to our final guest for this episode of taste radio meetups are continuing in chicago san diego san francisco and london come hang out with the food beverage and beer community for live podcast recordings cpg networking and sample sharing want to attend or partner with us head to taste radio.com slash meetups elevator talk quick pause to let you know that the leading event for the beverage industry is headed back to los angeles this december 6th through 8th bevnet live brings founders investors retailers, suppliers, and operators together for product discovery, high-value conversations, and partnerships that can shape what comes next.

53:44Early registration pricing is available now. Head to BevNetLive.com to register. Mark your calendar. Nosh Live is back December 3rd and 4th in Los Angeles. Join packaged food founders, buyers, investors, and operators for two days of product discovery and conversations focused on what's next. Early registration pricing is available now. Head to NoshLive.com to register. I'm a dupe akawumi, who is the founder of Cham Cham. Dupe, how are you? I'm good, Ray. How are you, Rebecca? How are you guys? Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for joining us today. I think of Cham Cham when I see the name of the brand.

54:20It's C-H-A-M, C-H-A-M. My mind immediately goes to chamomile. But that's not what you sell. You don't sell chamomile drinks. What do you sell? Ginger-based drinks. There you go. Yeah. So where did this idea come from? and talk a bit about what makes your brand interesting and unique. Sure. I grew up in Sierra Leone and ginger drinks are very common there, along with many other cultures globally. So essentially, Champ Champ is inspired from that. So essentially, we exist to introduce more people to ginger beverage as part of everyday life, again, as it is for many other cultures. And so I'm looking at my notes here and you say the brand sits in the space between juice and kombucha, which is really interesting.

55:12Does it have a functional benefit like kombucha does or why did you describe it that way? It does. So most people know that ginger is used for all our things, anti-inflammatory and all those things. in terms of the product positioning, we're leaning on taste and not running away from benefits that people already know ginger comes with. So we're leaning on flavor in that sense. Yeah, and just talk about your retail presence at this point. I see that you're introducing new packaging and expanding your retail presence in the Mid-Atlantic. What does that look like? Sure. Lots of independent stores.

55:55We're in about 125 stores, the restaurants included currently in the Maryland, D.C., Virginia region.

56:09I'm getting thirsty, honestly, after talking to all these founders. I'm getting particularly thirsty when I'm looking at your ginger hibiscus, which just looks so refreshing and delightful. You also have a ginger passion fruit and a ginger tamarind. um before we get to rebecca just just quickly who who is this for what when do you drink this what's the time of the day what's the use occasion for for products like these so it's everyday refreshment it's like you grab and go it's just with the their intention um again culturally this is something that you incorporate any part of your life um in the mornings eating breakfast um eating dinner um on any occasion it's supposed to uh be a product that you go to.

56:57But in shelf space, grab and go. So it would be somewhere where you get your fresh pressed drinks or veggie drinks or anything like that. I'm trying to think. I'm kind of wrapping my head around this. Rebecca, how would you advise sort of communicating what this is and how people should consume it to consumer, just to make it easier for consumers to know what it is and when to drink it? I'm going to follow that with some questions first and then I can answer answer the question that you gave me um when you say fresh ginger is it like hand peeled fresh ginger or using ginger extracts um yeah can you describe a little bit more about the product that way sure uh we use fresh ginger roots and peer it with um other stuff so like um tamarind for example that's I'm noticing more and more tamarinds coming into the mainstream market but yeah not powdered fresh ginger roots okay so it's not extracts or anything it's like from fresh ginger root right correct that's something that i do believe is important i ran you know bruce cost ginger ale and you know i would kind of make jokes at my trade shows and be like because it was it was literal we had you know 15 people hand peeling with a spoon fresh ginger to make our product and it was definitely a key selling point that i found that buyers really resonated with and because you can actually see the floating bits of ginger at the base of the drink It was something I can physically point to, but I can also kind of describe to buyers.

58:23And I found that that really resonated far as us on like a national level with big retailers. So I feel that owning the fresh ginger component is probably pretty important versus an extract. You'd be surprised at how many ginger based products are made from extract. And extract, unfortunately, can have like bitter notes to it. Um, so if you're using actual fresh ginger, it's going to be more delicate and have kind of like a sweeter, more delicious flavor to it. So communicating that on, in some ways, I think important and the combination of like, you know, the things that you're using, um, yeah, feel that that would be a good direction to sort of lean into, I would say.

59:09modupe uh occasionally you talk about uh cham cham as uh being consumed as a shot uh is is that one way to to drink the beverage as well um yeah i know quite the opposite actually um the ginger it's more like to reshape the idea of ginger and how it's consumed that it's not a shot like in the american space post-covid it's been different um things are changing but it's more considered medicinal so you see a lot of ginger shots and things there's nothing out there that's just refreshing where where you can just grab like you'd grab your apple juice or you'd grab a watermelon drink uh you know say having in recent maybe about a year or so we having a a coconut like frenzy, but where people are actually, you see that in the refrigerated space.

1:00:04So it's just something to kind of take away that veil of a medicinal aspect of people. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, I buy a lot of ginger and turmeric shots. I drink them pretty much every day. And I love the idea of being able to sip on something that's good for me and refreshing without having to, you know, just pound the two. I've gotten to the point right now where I actually like the flavor of these things, but most people, it takes a while. And so communicating refreshment as much as you're communicating functionality, I think is the key here. And talking about juice as being refreshing is kind of interesting because that, I guess, halo of, you know, how does this satiate me yet also make me refreshed, for lack of a better word, I think is sometimes a difficult path to walk.

1:00:59How do you talk about refreshment in a way that is really clear to consumers, Madupe? Again, given the fact that ginger is generally considered something that is, or ginger beverages have been less refreshing than others in the past. Yeah, that's an ongoing journey. Like in the recent months, I'm really trying to shape that story and the consumer facing aspect of it. So I've over the over in the existence of the company, we've been very B2B. But as we continue to grow in particular, I'm looking to get into reading talks with their regional grocer. looking to shape like that story but I would just say from the one-on-ones really would be the pairing of it, the pairing with other things kind of afford it a refreshment you know I don't know it kind of lends that story to Ginger that it doesn't otherwise have i think is this product fermented like i've seen ginger fresh ginger being able to be kind of almost fermented like a kombucha or something along those lines is it fermented at all or is it um made more like a tea um not fermented uh it's not i'm you could say made more like a tea because it's it's boiled but certainly yeah so more like a tea okay Yeah, just going back to pairing it with food, I almost feel like this is a great or this would be a great pairing with food, almost with like salad, something a little bit lighter.

1:02:55And you talked about being B2B, Mudupe. Where are you, I'm assuming by B2B you mean in small cafes and small restaurants as well. Is that right? Correct. Cafes, restaurants and quite a number of independent grocery stores as well. And so those cafes, what kind of food are they selling? Oh, sandwiches and typical stuff. I don't know if you guys are familiar with like tate or Starbucks, but just regular cafes that sell sandwiches, salads as well, and like cookies and coffee, just regular cafes. Yeah, I mean, again, I think it's a nice pairing when you can say this particular beverage goes with this particular food.

1:03:40And it doesn't necessarily need to be something that is cultural or ethnic. And I think even though you definitely come from that angle or Cham Cham has that sort of angle, being able to say, you don't even have to think about that. This is just going to taste delicious with your lunch goes a long way to that messaging, that communication. And last question about price point. What do you typically sell at per bottle? um around 369 uh in terms of and retail retail is for sure wholesale is obviously different but i usually see that about a 369 um restaurants of course more it's it's a 16 ounce uh plastic bottle is that right correct yes outstanding would you pay uh such an interesting introduction to a really interesting brand thank you so much for taking the time uh i don't know if you've ever sent us or had an opportunity to send his product.

1:04:34But if you could, please do. I'd love to try this. As I mentioned, your ginger hibiscus has made my mouth water the last 10 minutes. So thank you so much for doing that. Thank you. But yes, if there's anything we can help out with otherwise, please let us know. Just reach out anytime. Certainly. Thanks, Ray. Thanks, Rebecca. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Take care. Rebecca, as advertised, a really interesting and fun group of brands and some awesome founders behind them. You know, I think it's really important and incumbent upon entrepreneurs to learn as much as they can at the outset. And I think that they are learning.

1:05:14But what's one thing that we haven't necessarily talked about today that you think all these founders need to take into account as they continue to build their businesses? Oh, I think the foundation is the almost pre-launch is where the brands really need to do more homework. I find that, you know, the adjustments tend to come later. Whereas I would, if I were a brand and I was going to launch something fresh, I feel that I would make a very small production run, somewhere like Noble, and I would go and demo that myself. I'd really get feedback. Like I want to understand something tactile. When somebody picks up my beverage, do they have to ask me a bunch of questions?

1:05:52Like, what is this? I would put it on a bunch of shelves, you know, get some real data before going and expanding. And I think, you know, getting those learnings as much as you can from a consumer base as early as possible, because, you know, most brands will go through one kind of reiteration and or tweak, you know, for package design and making sure that you definitely have all of the P's in place, I always say, is packaging, positioning, pricing is really important. And so it's great to think, oh, as I scale, when I go back, I'll reduce the pricing as I go to scale. But at the end of the day, it's very hard to scale unless you're priced correctly out the gate.

1:06:30So those are a lot of variables that you kind of need to factor in before you launch as you're kind of raising money, whether it's friends and family or on that first production run. And knowing, you know, predictably that you will eventually get your costs down so your margins will be a little healthier down the line. I think I do wish people would do, I guess, some kind of test run, I would say, with their packaging before they launch. I think that that's one of the biggest things. Is this communicating what I needed to communicate on the shelf without me having to physically demo? And, you know, I would get a huge sample size of customers.

1:07:09I would get buyers feedback, you know, as much as you possibly can do before you pre-launch. Yeah, such great advice, as expected, as always. Rebecca, you're the best. Thank you. For folks watching or listening at home, what's the best way to get in touch with you and the team at Empire City Brand Builders? They can email me at Rebecca at EmpireCityBrandBuilders.com or go to my website and they can email me through the website. I think they should. I think that would really be helpful for a lot of brands and a lot of founders. Rebecca, you're the best. Can we get you back on the show soon? Absolutely.

1:07:47Always a pleasure. Really fun. Thank you so much. And thanks so much to all our entrepreneurs who joined us today. Thanks to everyone listening or watching at home. And thanks to our incredible team at BevNet, Nosh and Taste Radio, the best in the business. Signing off for everyone, I'm Ray Lateef, and we'll talk to you next time.