Protein Is Everywhere. But Does It Belong Everywhere?

0:10Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. For the second time this year, Jackie, John, and I are in the WCB, the West Coast branch here in San Diego, and Mike is all by himself in Newton, Massachusetts. He's taken my seat. You're in my seat, my friend. You're in mine. Nice comeback. I like it. I like it. Well, before we go any further, I just want to remind folks, if you enjoy the podcast, and I know you do, we would love it and we would love you if you could please review us on the Apple Podcasts app.

0:57It's very easy to do so. You open up the app on your Apple iPhone. You look up Taste Radio, or if you don't already have the Taste Radio page open, or I don't know what, you don't call it a page on an app. You call it a Taste Radio... Screen? Screen. Let's use other incorrect boomer terms. Profile. profile. Page is fine. People call it their page. You scroll to the bottom of the screen profile page, and you can easily review the podcast. A five-star review would be wonderful. And if you could even leave an actual written review, that would be even better. If you do so, take a screenshot, send us your address and your preferred t-shirt size, and we will send you the most wonderful t-shirt in the history.

1:46I just got it all over my microphone. Don't block your microphone with a T-shirt. There we go. Some video action here. You can feel the softness through the mic. It's so soft. And as you wash it, it's the kind of T-shirt where as you wash it, it becomes... It just gets better with age. Correct. It's softer and soft. And then it has a real vintage feel to it. It's wonderful. So send us that information to askatasteradio.com. The T-shirt will be in the mail and in your hands before you know it. Because we ship everything FedEx overnight for these things. uh yeah we're gonna we're gonna put you on a plane probably spirit airlines and you can handle gray yeah no greyhound you deliver them by ground you know even greyhound i think might be slightly more expensive yes yes as you know uh sadistic an idea is that sounds i don't think it's a good one so anyway okay us mail it is yeah fair enough fair enough ground shipping only though or what do they go they can't go on an airplane okay yeah all right so uh like they're nuclear full of lithium batteries anyway sean and i are here in san diego because we're here all week in california holding meetups and our first one was held yesterday and recording this on wednesday the 17th but yesterday september 16th here in san diego at the west coast branch i just loved every second of it.

3:06It went from, and we were just talking about this before we hopped on the mics. We started at 5 p.m. It went until about 7.30 or a little bit later than that. And it just felt like it was go time as soon as the first person walked in the door. I mean, tons of energy, a lot of excitement, just an amazing community out here in San Diego. And the best part about these meetups is that we get to meet people and have conversations with folks that we never met before. There's so many new people coming into this industry on the beverage side, the food side, the beer side. And I was introduced to so many incredible folks doing really cool things in our industry.

3:41Yeah. An example of that is Birdie, which launched literally, I think, two days ago. They came down from LA. They had a little setup. They were sampling, just trying to get feedback. So that's what happens. Yeah. Brands are launching every day. So Birdie is spelled B-I-R-D-I-E. And it's a brand of sparkling teas. They have two varieties. So there's one that's made with apple jasmine and one made with peach oolong. I actually sat down with one of the founders for a quick interview as part of our live podcasting during the meetup yesterday. I apologize for blank on his name. My brain is fried. But I really love the concept and the branding is just phenomenal.

4:21I know Mike is going to take some issues with this because the logo is vertically on the front of the can. But I would say people do it. You can read it. It's one of the more readable ones. It feels pretty pro. I mean, the fact that they launched just a couple days ago and this is what their can looks like, I'm pretty impressed. Yeah, pretty solid. Good stuff. It was funny when I was talking to one of the co-founders about this. I was like, your packaging is really great. He's like, well, you know, we were planning, this was in planning and development for about eight months. And we went through four or five different iterations.

4:51I'm like, what? That's quite a few in such a short period of time, but they really wanted to get it right. So yes, I sat down with the founder of Birdie and I want to say maybe eight or nine other founders. And we're going to be featuring all of those interviews in an upcoming episode of Taste Radio. One of the most amazing things about the event is that I also got to sit down with the chief commercial officer of Salty. His name is Sean Hamilton. We had a great conversation about how that brand has expanded so dramatically in terms of its retail distribution footprint and also its deal with Starbucks.

5:31They also sat down with the chief science officer of an amazing company called Source Technology. And Source Technology, you know, if you're doing anything in the cannabis business, whether it's food, beverage, gummies, what have you, you really need to talk to that company because, you know, they just they know quite a bit. Scott Riefler is the chief science officer. get in touch with this guy. This guy, he has decades of experience in businesses that are highly regulated. And he's also just a brilliant guy. This guy's got an IQ off the charts. So he's a guru. Yeah. Yeah. The source team is great.

6:09They care not only about the flavor of your beverage and making just the quality beverage, but also things like the efficacy. So they're going to make sure that if you're putting 10 milligrams of THC in there, you're getting 10 milligrams THC impact or five, five, two, two, you know, they're, they're really good at that stuff. Yeah. Mike would know he's a connoisseur of such things. I'm getting good. I'm getting good at knowing that. Yeah. Yeah. We did have a couple of THC brands come to the meetup too. I know the founder of wonder came down from San Francisco and then realized that we have a San Francisco meetup tomorrow, but he was like, maybe I'll just go to both.

6:44I told him, I was like, Alexi, if you are not at the meetup in San Francisco, I have no, he's like, I live literally he said I live three or four blocks away from the venue so uh yeah I hope to see him there but I wonder what a really cool brand so fish feels like people are following us around yeah that's kind of cool actually yeah you will get a special taste radio hoodie if you come to at least three meetups we need like a bingo card where you collect we stamp your card special product oh talk about dated we got to come up with something better than that no punch cards No punch cards, no. But it definitely was a really solid time.

7:19I mean, over 100 people showed up. We had the pizza truck, as always. And yeah, I think a lot of questions about what's the plan for meetups next year. So got to figure that one out. I got to think we'll be back here, of course, because we have a built-in venue. But there is a lot of discussion about where we're going to be next year, some ideas thrown. A lot of people have asked us to come to the South. I've heard a lot of people asking about North Carolina, Georgia, Florida. So a lot of interest in CPG down there. And, you know, we don't spend enough time, I think, in those states and cities within those states.

7:54Yeah, I'd love to get back to Miami. That was great. We're talking about it. In the meantime, I just want to say that this event in San Diego could not have happened without the generous support of our partners, including Source Technology, Salty, and, of course, naturally, San Diego. Also really grateful to the folks who supplied us with so many amazing libations for the bar and beyond. Straightaway cocktails. Cy Cain and his team, my goodness, talking about going above and beyond. They loaded us up with their phenomenal tequila-based cocktails, including their two margaritas and Paloma. I had two.

8:27After I was done, after I was off the mics. I wasn't drinking during the night. I don't do that. Jackie, why are you giving me a sidebikes? Sipping a whiskey and smoking. smoking a cigarette while you're doing the interview. I could see this. I'm old school. I'm like Johnny Carson over here. Half of the bag at all times. Now I really dated myself by saying Carson. Okay. Yeah, no one knows who that is. So straightaway cocktails, some of the best cocktails in the business. You definitely want to get your hands on some if you haven't already. You fly Alaska Airlines anytime. You can get their old fashioned or margarita in your hands.

8:59I think I'm flying Alaska to San Francisco. So maybe an early morning beverage. There you go. What could go wrong? Also in good taste wines, Really great stuff. They supplied us with their 375 milliliter bottles of wine. They had a spicy rosé. Yeah, it was like jalapeno infused. I'm really excited to try that. Yeah. The NA Beverage Company. Shout out to Dan Choi and his team. Really great stuff. Perfect hydration. Slap, S-L-A-P-P. Hoplark. And four of the best breweries in San Diego, including Mother Earth, Ale Smith, Bottle Logic, and Fall Brewing. Thank you all so, so much. All right. So in addition to our San Diego and San Francisco event, of course, we've got London on the horizon in a couple of weeks.

9:43We'll be there October 2nd. I'm really excited to sit down with a bunch of folks, including the amazing team from Trip, the founder of a brand called Delicious, Catherine Bricken, and a bunch of other folks in that part of the world. If you're interested in meeting with us while we're in the UK, and we'll be there more than just October 2nd, I'm going to land, I think, the 30th, and we'll be there until the 3rd. or at least I will be there. Let us know. Send us an email to askatasteradio.com. We definitely want to meet up. Definitely want to talk to you. Have a conversation, whether it's recorded or otherwise.

10:13It would be great to break bread, have a beer, get on the mics. As we told a bunch of folks yesterday at the meetup, BevNet Live, Nosh Live, BrewBound Live, all right around the corner. They are going to be the biggest events that we've ever held in the industry, all in Marina del Rey. We'll just call it LA. Yeah, it's LA. It's LA. It's LA. NOSH Live is the first of the events that is happening, December 4th and 5th. Then we go to BevNet Live, which is on December 7 through 9. That's a Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. And of course, BrewBound Live, December 10th and 11th. Now, I do have a question, Jackie, for you specifically, about registration, room blocks.

10:57We do have deadlines and all that for saving money and getting on the room block. Yeah, lots of reasons to register early. First of all, early registration ends next month. So it's ending soon. So if you want to save money on your ticket, if you want to bring your team, now's the time to register. We also have all of our signup forms open. So we have our competitions for all of our events. Those deadlines are also next month. We have one-to-one signups for our meetings with peers, investors, and retailers. The earlier you sign up for that, the earlier you get a yes or no, and you can slot in your meeting times.

11:33And then we also have sampling applications. So if you want to showcase your brand, have everyone at the event sample your product, you want to sign up and register. As soon as you register, you'll get access to all of those links. Yeah. And the thing about registering early is that not only are you going to save money, but there's some peace of mind in that. I mean, you don't want to be last minute signing up for these events and trying to figure out travel plans and whatnot, now is really the time to do so. If you're thinking about going, you're probably going to go register now, get it out of the way, start making those travel plans, because we definitely want to see you at all of the events.

12:06And if you are interested in participating in the competitions, head to our nosh.com site, bevnet.com or brewbind.com to learn more about how to do so. So, Mike, did you get to try any of this cloud popcorn? It's a protein popcorn k l o u d it was founded by of course one of the kardashians is there an h in there it's because of me like chloe it's or just like kh loud that's you can spell it like that but have we gotten that in the office i don't think so mike you tried me i have not had a chance to try that ray but i gotta say i i'm holding my breath i can't wait i bought some the other day. You bought it.

12:52It almost has like a smart food experience because the protein is like actually like coated. So even like the butter one kind of tastes like smart food, which I am a huge smart food fan. So I dig it. But yeah, it's really interesting. I think they'll do well with the partnership. The branding looks really good and protein's hot. Well, we'll get to protein being hot. But Claude was in the news recently because they have a new CEO, Jeff Rubenstein, who has a ton of experience in CPG. He was with Vitacoco for many years, HealthAid as well. Most recently, he was with Poppy. He had helped lead that brand over the last, I want to say, two years before it got sold.

13:36President of Poppy. President of Poppy. Not a bad job to have had. No. Just saying. And so for Cloud to get him as their new CEO, I would say that's a pretty big coup. Not a coup, but it'd be higher for them as well. I'm assuming Poppy probably doesn't need a president as it becomes part of Pepsi. Poppy would not need a president because of Pepsi. It depends on how Pepsi's running the company, but probably not. But yeah, Cloud, they have three varieties, the sweet and salty kettle corn, an olive and sea salt, and a white cheddar. Each has seven grams of protein per serving. I don't know how many servings you need or what's the suggested serving size, but the protein is derived from a milk protein isolate.

14:21Protein is hot, as you pointed out, Jackie. It's really hot. You're starting to see it in everything. I came across a press release for - Starting to? Yes. I came across a press release the other day for Idahoan mashed potatoes. Idahoan, just the brand of - Like the instant mashed. And now they have a protein infused instant mashed potatoes. So again, protein is in everything. It's everywhere. where I think there are some places where it makes sense, some categories, CPG categories, where it makes sense. Others, I'm scratching my head. I know we talked about this, you know, a few episodes back, more than a few episodes back, and joking around.

14:55There's going to be a protein-infused steak pretty soon. No, seriously, as ridiculous as that sounds, somehow, some way, someone's going to do something like that. Yeah, you could, you know, like they use those injector things to put marinades in. You just inject it with protein. Okay. You can see it. Like I said, I think it's pretty ridiculous, but maybe it cuts down on the amount of food you have to eat because let's say a steak has, I don't know, 50 grams of protein and you want 100. You don't have to eat two steaks. You just eat a steak infused with extra protein. Yeah, lower your calories, increase your protein.

15:28I think we have a new idea, Jackie. Let's do it. Let's do it. How about protein Chardonnay, Ray? Oh. Right up your alley. Okay, so that's a good example of where protein wouldn't make sense, right? It doesn't make any sense in wine, any alcohol. Don't knock until you try it. Someone might try it, though. There was a protein beer. Was that Mighty Squirrel that had a protein beer? Don't recall. Yeah, but anyway. Probably. I don't know if we're hitting protein fatigue at this point, but I'm wondering where it ends. I don't think we've hit protein fatigue yet. Okay, but where does protein have permission to go, John?

16:02I mean, where does it stop making sense in CPG? Don't know. I don't think we've figured that out yet. Okay, well, I'm asking you. This is kind of an opinion question. I'm throwing you something so we can like... Yeah, and I'm just swatting it down. You're just swatting everything down. I got no opinion on this. Yeah, you're trying to... I guess I should turn to Jackie or Mike here. Since Mike has said very little, because I feel like... Because he's stuck in the basement back in HK. I definitely get where Jackie's coming from. It's like, you know, the three of us are usually in the Boston office.

16:30Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Jackie's like, can I say... I just want to say... Oh, he's a girl. All right. We're mine. Yeah, me over here. Me over here. Me over here. I have something to say about protein. All right, Mike, what are your thoughts? I mean, is protein something that can just go everywhere as long as you market it correctly? Or are consumers just going to see through something that just doesn't make sense? Here's the thing, Ray. Regardless of what I think we're going to find out, it's like pumpkin spice. Once pumpkin spice takes off in the fall, you start to see it everywhere.

17:01It's even in frigging dog biscuits, you know? So it's pumpkin spice season. We're seeing pumpkin spice go everywhere. And trends happen the same way as like seasonal stuff does. Right now it's protein season. Everybody thinks protein is the hottest thing. So they're going to try it and see if they can hockey stick as a result of introducing protein into their products. So regardless of whether I think it can go everywhere, we're going to see it go everywhere. Well, I think the answer is no. Yeah, but it's not like pumpkin spice though, in that it's kind of flavor neutral. So it's hard to really think of other kind of ingredients that are at the same level.

17:39Like, I don't know, I was going to say caffeine, but it's not caffeine because caffeine is something that you can clearly, quite literally and quickly feel that you've had too much. Right. Sure. And this is something that I think is just one of the building blocks of nutrition, essentially. So, yeah, I mean, I think it can go pretty far and wide. You know, maybe there are places where it impacts the overall kind of product experience since it probably messes with, I don't know, viscosity or whatever. It probably impacts maybe price. So there's probably products that people aren't willing to pay more to get protein in them.

18:22but I think it has a lot more potential than, again, I can't really think of something else that's got also like marketable, no pun intended, meat to it. You know, it's not like adding vitamins to things where consumers kind of don't always get that, you know? Yeah. And to your point, it's like, can you have too much protein? Like I know talking to like bodybuilders or people that are trying to hit their protein quotas and macros, it seems like You're always chasing this goal that's really hard to get to based on what we know right now as far as protein goes. So I feel like any little incremental protein that you can add to your diet is helping you get to this almost seems like unachievable goal.

19:05But what is that goal based on? Is it based on science? Is it based on you knowing that you need this much protein? Or is it based on marketing? Someone saying, hey, one gram of protein per pound per day is the thing to do. I think it's going to just take a few cycles of people getting to their annual physical and having a blood draw to find out that protein, you need to be mad hydrated to have the amount of protein that they're having. Otherwise, you start to have some, you know, residual protein waste in your blood, which is not good for you. Guess how I know that. Yeah, I mean, you seem to know more about how much protein you need to consume every day than the average person.

19:45And so I do think it really does come down to marketing and just general perception. People say you need more protein. I mean, everyone's been told over the last couple of years, protein is so important to your diet. Eat more protein, which is a little strange because in what form? You know, should I be eating more steak? Should I be eating more eggs? How should I be eating this protein or consuming protein? And Fred Hart had a pretty good take on this. Fred Hart, the well-known designer, dear friend to BevNet. Overall chill dude. Overall chill dude, CFD. Great dude. One of the tallest people in CBG.

20:17With apologies to the Cleveland Kitchen team. Yeah, they're the tallest. They are the tallest. You can't miss those guys. You can't, no. Love those guys. But he made the argument that it's not about quantity. It's about quality of protein. And what? You know, I don't disagree with Fred too often, but I think I will disagree with Fred on that one. Okay, why? Well, because I think it's, yes, There are obviously consumers that are educated and care about that. But I think in terms of the more broad macro opportunity, I don't think that that many consumers care about that outside of, you know, maybe dietary restrictions.

20:58Like, I don't know if you're someone who's a vegetarian, you might not want collagen protein, you know. But I think that it is not something that is really well articulated on a lot of products either, you know. But there are different kinds of protein for different kinds of use cases too. And you shouldn't just have your daily intake of protein and collagen because it does something different than your whey protein does, which is what a lot of people use for their base of protein or pea protein is a substitute for whey protein or equal sort of protein. I'm not disagreeing with that. Okay. Just saying that I think that most consumers probably aren't going to spend the time to care about that.

21:42Whereas just getting the badge on your product, you know, I don't know, we're looking at this birdie product that, you know, it's got the calories call out on the front, I think, but products have like a protein call out. And yeah, I think that's. Then you go to the side to find out what kind of protein you're getting anyway, if you know about protein. But I just think it matters less at this point. It makes me think of like, I remember my mom used to do like Atkins and it was all about carbs and it wasn't about types of carbs or fiber or anything like that. It was just like, you're focusing on something that's very simple because it seems like it's easy to digest when like you're making so many decisions in a day about what you're going to eat.

22:22You're like, awesome. Protein seems good for me. Let's eat it. You know, rather than like, where is it coming from? Unless like, you know, you are into health and wellness and fitness and you're really focused on energy and output and performance. Like, I think that's when you might take a closer look. But other than that, if you're just a mainstream consumer, you're just like, what's going to be better for my system in general? Yeah, you're looking at things like your digestion schedule and their slow release protein that you should take later at night because it can help you heal while you're sleeping.

22:52It seems like you've looked into this. I know. You're the protein expert. Send all inquiries about protein to mschneider at bevnet.com. Clearly he knows a thing or two. Yeah. Picturing him popping some sort of gummy that's got cannabis and protein in it. I can see the wheel spinning. John already has the AI video prepped and ready to go. So stay tuned for that. Well, I'll say this to anyone listening who is the founder or operator of a protein infused CPG brand, send us your products. I think this is a discussion we're going to continue to have. And I think the more exposure that we have to what's out there, I think the better the discussion can be.

23:37But whether it's crackers or candy or beverages, just send us those products. We would love to try them and feature them on future episodes of the podcast. It seems to be a trend, at least that's making people happy. And there's your parallel with pumpkin spice. Okay. Oh, wow. He's got to go. He's got to have the last word on pumpkin spice. Mike was right. Pumpkin spice does not make me happy. It makes me angry. He's irritated. Okay. I love it. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team.

24:18Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more. All right. So speaking of brands that we want to highlight and feature on this show, our dear friend, Adam Hertel, who actually he pronounces it Hertel. Hertel. Yes. Oh, no. Oh, Adam Hertel, who recently took over the sales department at a brand called Rotten. Now, I'm dating myself left and right by calling it a department. But anyway, he's a new head of sales at a brand called Rotten. I was going to say, to be clear, I think he's the first head of sales. This is like a pretty new company that doesn't have a big team. So they're taking a step forward there.

24:58Well, thank you. I'm just trying to clarify. I know. That sounds like, man, they had some other guy that was just a knucklehead. No. So Rotten is a relatively new company. I think they're about two or three years old. We actually featured the brand, I want to say a year and a half ago. Yeah, you guys were obviously chewing on gummy worms. I remember this. Yes, I wasn't doing that. But anywho, they sell gummy worms and they sell better for you gummy worms that have no artificial colors or flavors or preservatives or artificial ingredients. And so I should take that back. I believe they might have some preservatives, but they're natural preservatives.

25:30I don't know for sure what goes into gummies. All I can tell you is that if you want a gummy worm that doesn't have all the junk that you typically associate with them. Sugar and gut friendly. Do you have the crunchy ones, right? Do you have the crunchy ones? Yes. The gummy crunchies. Yes. So they have a bunch of different varieties. They do include seven grams of prebiotic fiber per bag. Each bag contains 130 calories. uh it's made with 16 grams of added sugar so jackie's get into it so the ones that have gummies they're like it's almost like a nerd rope yeah they're candy coated gummies wow and sour well uh-oh uh-oh pucker pucker moment here jackie's puckering oh this is good i love the branding the side of it says like feed your freak and they have i think they gave us these like um for your car they're like air fresheners because they just smell like blue raspberry like the branding is like so fun there's nothing that says blue raspberry here don't get me started on that jackie no but uh i'm really happy you know for adam i'm really happy for rotten because i think it's a it's a match made in heaven i mean adam has a ton of experience in this industry he knows what works what doesn't he's got a lot of insight and connections to major retailers and And Rotten seems to be a rocket ship right now based on having a conversation with Adam last night.