'Shrooms, Magic & Otherwise, Are On The Rise. Plus, What's BarTrending?

26:33You can find it on BevNet.com. Now, I have a really interesting product. It's called, or a new line of products called Snoods, brand of products that is. And it is a snacking noodle. Essentially, it's a pasta that you can snack on. It comes in these three ounce pouches. There's three varieties. is a kava tapi carbonara, a rigatoni basil pomodoro, and a spicy miso ramen. Jesus, I can't speak today. Man, I like any company that sends snoods. Yeah. It debuted earlier this month on February 1st. It's described as the first chef-driven, globally-inspired noodle snack. It was conceptualized and founded by Lauren Bodden after winning Netflix's newest cooking competition show, Snack vs.

27:24Chef. So, yeah, apparently Lauren's been obsessed with this idea of making snacks out of pasta. Mike, I figured you might want to try these. I've already tried the spicy miso ramen. That does not suck. I feel like it's an acquired texture. Even not an acquired taste, but it's definitely an acquired texture, if that makes sense. I used to, when I was a kid, actually take like the ramen like packets and just eat them with a little bit of the like spice packet on it. So I think this would be for me. I ate raw pasta. So. Yeah, me too. Okay. So if you like raw pasta, you will absolutely love this, Jackie.

28:02Okay. This is awesome. So I'm biting into the rigatoni basil pomodoro. It tastes like pasta. Mm-hmm. With sauce, but pasta that's uncooked. with sauce. These have maximum crunch. That's true. You will enjoy that one, Mike. That's the rigatoni. So I've had the spicy miso rum and now I'm going to go for the, oh, these are actual rigatoni. Oh my God. This is old school. I'm like a little kid. The rigatoni ones look exactly like rigatoni. They look like uncooked rigatoni. Mike's got the biggest smile on his face. It must be a little bit softer. It's a little softer than what we're used to, like eating it raw, but it's just close.

28:38You know, I like the rigatoni one a little bit more now that I've had a couple. But still, I think the hard part of this is going to be getting people to associate, I don't know, the texture of a crunchy snack with the sort of pasta crunch. I think there's going to be a bit of education here, but what Jackie was talking about, eating ramen, quote, raw, is not that uncommon. Wait, what? It's not that uncommon. Okay. Mike's going to try the last one here. This is the Cavatepe. Okay. Cavatepe. I can't pronounce that. That's pretty good, too. Mike looks like a little kid. This reminds me of Fusili Jerry.

29:25It does look like Fusili Jerry. I also got recently some samples from a brand called Date Better. Thank you, Snoods. Date Better. Thanks for sending Snoods. It markets dark chocolate-covered dates. There are four varieties. There's a peanut butter crunch. There's a cashew lime crisp. There is a hazelnut praline. And there's an almond java crunch. The packaging, as Mike pointed out earlier, is fantastic. Stunning. It comes in these 2.4-ounce boxes. And the color scheme is really striking. It's also the best feeling package I've ever held. It feels like suede. Yeah, these cardboard packages are pretty small.

30:12They're all squares and they come in these really striking colors. Like the cashew lime crisp is in this forest green color. Actually, it does have sort of this psychedelic vibe on the front as well. This is my emotional support packaging. Okay. I'm just going to pet it. You know, the best part, it doesn't poop either. So I don't have to clean up after it. Yeah. It feels like you would see this in a high-end specialty food store. I wonder where they would merchandise it in like a conventional grocery store, even a Whole Foods. I don't know where this would sit on shelf. I think that's probably the question I would have if I were a retail buyer.

30:49Feels like an NCAP special right now. Yeah. Yeah. Or they would do really well in gift shops. Right. That's like the perfect gift. Yeah. Well, Date Better was recently awarded a$10 ,000 business grant and a 12-week mentorship with BraziBytes co-founder and CMO Junia Ruka and her team. The reason they were awarded that grant is because they won BraziBytes Latino Entrepreneur Accelerator Program, which if you use the acronym, it's LEAP, L-E-A-P. Now, I'm going to try these products. Not just yet, because I'm still going to wrap up this episode, but great stuff. They look great. Yeah, looks great.

31:30Speaking of things that look great, these are Nami oat noodles, product of Taiwan. We have listeners everywhere in the world, Ray. Yes, I know. Yeah. And found Nami on Instagram. And I'm just really excited to try these. We've got two SKUs here. I don't think these are available in the U.S. just yet, but I believe they're trying to get in. This one's tingly numbing chili oil. And that one is soy scallion oil. Yeah. 100 % vegan without cholesterol. Never deep fried. Cook in five to six minutes. Oat noodles. Ray. Another sort of observation from a person who is not a retail buyer nor a merchandiser, but it feels like a vertical positioning of this product would be better than its current iteration of a horizontal, given that you could probably fit more of these on shelf vertically.

32:28Yes. Yeah, you could. And the thing is, it's almost square, but not quite. So yeah, I think you're right. But I think what they're trying to do here is to get as much nummy across the top as they can. Plus they've got their little, their noodle guy here too. To me, the thing that stands out most is the oat noodle call out in the lower right-hand corner, which I think differentiates this product from a lot of other... I would say this is the differentiator. The oat noodle. Yeah, so highlight that more. Everything else here I understand. And then I'm like, oh, oat noodle, that's different. And I would make that bigger.

33:03I don't think the call out is big enough. It does kind of pop out, but you'd want to just boom, oat noodle, wouldn't you? And I guess my question is like, what's the benefit of the oat noodle? Is it like a whole grain noodle better for you? Oats are better just in general. I mean, oats are good for you. Oats are the clear greatest ingredient of all time, right, Jackie? I mean, I thought you knew that, no? Now I know. Now you know. Now, in all seriousness, I don't know either. It's not a rice noodle. It's not an egg noodle. It's an oat noodle. It's something different. Yeah. So it might have a different flavor too, probably.

33:32Probably. Probably. Well, we'll have to get to the bottom of this. Yes. Darn. I can't wait. How come nobody talked about my choice of clothing today? I'm not wearing a blue shirt. Yeah, what's up with that? Why are you not wearing your uniform today? You do have like a rotating like lineup of hoodies that you occasionally wear. Just I haven't worn those in the show in a very long time. Yeah, that's what it's usually every two months. We've got it timed. Check that one off. Yeah, okay. In two months, we'll check back.

34:03All right, let's get to our featured interview for this episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Amy Racine is the beverage director for JF Restaurants, a New York-based hospitality group helmed by Michelin-starred chef and restaurateur John Frazier. JF Restaurants operates several fine dining destinations in New York, Los Angeles, and Tampa, and recently opened an innovative food hall in downtown Boston. Amy oversees the beverage selection at all JF restaurants' properties, where she leads new cocktail development and curates wine lists as part of an overall focus to present unique and well-paired options for guests.

34:43In the following conversation, I spoke with Amy about how current trends in wine and spirits influence beverage strategy, the impact of consumers becoming more educated and informed about higher quality adult beverages, and why she compares growing demand for no and low-alcohol drinks to that of vegetarian food.

35:05Hey, folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I'm honored to be sitting down with Amy Racine, who is the beverage director for John Frazier Restaurants. Amy, great to see you. Thank you for having me. You are the beverage director for 14 properties across the United States. How does one get a job like yours? Well, people that are beverage directors that I've met have come from so many different walks of life. I'm not sure I know how to answer that question. I can tell you that I got here by going the culinary route into more specifically the wine route into trying to grasp any piece of knowledge I could from everybody around me in the spirit world to try and evolve into that.

35:50So I think it's probably like, you know, any other field, if you want to be great at something and you try and surround yourself with people that just do it so well. And once you kind of start taking stepping stones into what could be next after one position, maybe somebody into wine director, into beverage director, you start seeing doors open and just explore as much as you can. I'm a big fan of wine. I've been drinking wine for a long time. It's harder for me, I think, to evaluate wine trends and how they fit into the overall market for beverage alcohol. But you probably have a better sense of how they do exist within the broad landscape of options and opportunity for consumers at places like yours.

36:39Yes. I mean, we definitely see trends in certain styles and there's components where sometimes you see like styles of wine or types of wine like salturn or something in a cocktail as the sweetener and there's unique moments of crossover like that but what i find interesting right now and it makes me reflect on previous years and trends martinis are obviously having a huge moment everything from espresso to 50 50s just martinis are everywhere that's i would argue one of the most popular styles of cocktail in New York and the other markets that we're operating in at the moment. At the same time, on the wine side of things, Sancerre is like, guests don't even open the menu.

37:25They just order Sancerre. It's kind of the new Pinot Grigio a little bit. So I find a lot of similarities in that style of wine and that cocktail in clean, mineral, all just fresh and bright. So I don't exactly know what the formula is, but it seems that wine and cocktail or just beverage kind of go in trends together and don't operate in silos as far as the trend point of view. It's interesting that even in the wintertime as we are right now and at the start of a new year, that people are looking for more light and refreshing drinks. Why is that? I know that's kind of a big question, but do you have a sense of why people are gravitating in that direction or moving in that direction?

38:08Well, I think, you know, a martini would, it's pretty high proof depending on what style you're getting. So it's, you're cold and you just want a drink and maybe you don't want to feel heavy and something that has like a lot of syrup. So you don't want to go like the old fashioned route or something that's heavy from flavor point of view. So I think starting with martinis or starting with a glass of Sancerre is appealing because it's almost like the appetizer of the meal. You can build up from there, but have just found that many people don't necessarily switch as they go through the meal or as they go through the night.

38:44Sancerre is a bit more of an elevated style than Pinot Grigio. And, you know, martinis have always been considered a sophisticated drink. Are you finding that consumers are thinking about their options in more sophisticated ways? Are they more educated about what they're drinking or is it more they just want a higher quality, a higher class of beverage? That's a great question. I think during the pandemic, everybody became an expert in a good way of beverage. Everybody was at home and using their home bar and learning how to make cocktails and watching videos. And on the internet, you could learn how to make a martini, make a margarita the right way.

39:29Everybody was doing wine clubs or wine subscriptions or watching wine professionals on the internet, doing the take-home kits. So I think everybody who wasn't necessarily an enophile or a cocktail expert before their education during the pandemic was on fast forward compared to what it would have been like without it, of just continuing going to restaurants. There was a lot of focus on the educational piece during that time. So when we returned to restaurants and things started to stabilize the requests for certain great varieties or just the general interest of, I want to try something new. And us asking the question, well, what do you normally drink?

40:12The list of great varieties or regions or cocktails that are mentioned is much greater and much more complicated than it was prior, which is great. and it pushes the professionals to hold on tight and make sure that they're tuned into everything that they should be for cocktail education and in the wine world. It would seem then that there's a bit more, I don't know if pressure is the right word, but onus on producers and brands to educate and get consumers aware of their products. Given that there is such a wide variety And given that a lot of bars are stocking multiple types of spirits in a particular category, all different kinds of wine, how do you talk to brands and wine producers or spirit brands and wine producers about highlighting what they're doing to the consumer so that when they walk into your restaurants, they have a sense of, oh, yes, I want a X and soda or I would love this type of Sancerre.

41:16Are you finding that customers are a bit more educated about specific brands and specific wine producers, or is it still kind of an education and a process for them? It's both. They are very educated on what used to be the kind of, in my mind, the core line of brands in vodka, for example, Grey Goose, Tito's, Belvedere. Guests knew those, but now guests know Grey Goose, Tito's, Belvedere, and then add on four or five more. and now they want to know what else is out there beyond those. And at the same time, from the brand and the producer point of view, those brands are either coming out with new labels or expansions of their line or there's kind of smaller niche producers putting product out there.

42:08So there's interest from the guest point of view, it seems, on both sides of what's the second label of this brand or what's new from this brand or who's somebody small that's producing vodka in the Hudson Valley that I could try in my martini tonight. Well, I have tried your martinis at a recent visit to the Terrace and Outdoor Gardens, which is the restaurant at the Times Square Edition Hotel. And everything was phenomenal. Everything that I consumed was phenomenal. I didn't drink the entire menu, but I tried to. But no, everything was amazing. I think we had to do a really big order the next day.

42:47They're just out of alcohol. But, you know, one of the things that I tried was the Found the Proof, which was made with Suntory, Roku, whiskey, cardamom, grapefruit, and clove. When you are crafting your cocktail menu and individual beverages, what is first and foremost in your mind? Do you think a lot about the spirit first? Do you think about the mixing ingredients? Do you think about specific ingredients like a clove, like a grapefruit? I mean, how do you go about that process? Yes, is the answer to all of that. I guess there isn't really a step one. We more have a matrix of in each outlet we should always have, and it might vary by outlet, but for Times Square, for example, a vodka, a rye, a tequila, sometimes two tequila because it's especially popular in that venue right now.

43:41And then from there we go to flavor profile. We want a light and bright. We want something darker and moodier. We want a spicy cocktail. We want something in the world of a martini. And then we also look at the variation of stemware. Well, we do have a martini program there, but in the other cocktail portion, we don't want them all to be in Collins classes or all in Rock's classes. It's their variation in the production and therefore the presentation. Then there's just moments of creativity and having fun, like Found the Proof, for example, is something that came from a mocktail that we had on the menu called Where's the Proof?

44:20And guests loved it and passed it around. And we're like, I can't believe that this isn't alcoholic. And then we're like, maybe we should make an alcoholic version of this one. So sometimes there's these serendipitous moments of like, just creativity and having fun where we need to be able to figure out how, when a cocktail feels right, how to get it onto the menu as well. How much do brands influence your mindset when it comes to crafting cocktails? Can a brand come into your office or have a meeting with you and say, hey, you know, we think our spirit would be great in your restaurants and bars, but it also be great on your cocktail menu.

45:01And here's the cocktail we think, you know, would sell a lot or do quite well in your locations. Yeah, sometimes. And I think keeping that conversation that you just had available for myself and my team and for the brands is important because everybody sees trends in a different way and it's important to stay on top of that. But that's also an excellent way for my team and I to be introduced to new products or hear about, you know, an amazing distiller that's, you know, breaking boundaries and experimenting with XYZ. So I think the relationship part of it is what's the most important part there.

45:44In terms of brands, I mean, as much as I'd like to say it's not, brands are very important to our guests. If you have a back bar that's full of labels that nobody's ever heard of, you're going to isolate a large part of your guests that are coming in. You want to be able to have some level of comfort of seeing something that's recognizable. And then if you can have a couple of brands next to those, it's like, oh, it's that. And then you can have a conversation. So I think it's very important to maintain those relationships. Amy, can you talk about the seasonality of your menu in terms of the cocktails and your permanent list of cocktails as well, as it relates to the variety of people that walk into your locations?

46:30As a blanket statement, I'll say we change our cocktails quarterly. So at the top of every season. So we're having conversations two weeks, actually, for spring cocktails to come on board. what are those cocktail menus going to look like going through the matrix that I just mentioned, just getting ahead of it because we need to be able to make sure it gets on the menu the right way, that we have everything we need in the house, that the training's done. However, in other locations, like we have North Fork Table and Inn in Long Island, and that's wine country, farm country. There's amazing produce there.

47:04We like to change it much more frequently. and it's this amazing, I find so much romance in the place because the bartender can get on their bike and go to the farmer next door and, you know, clip the corn flour for the garnish that day. And it's amazing. So we want to lean into that as much as we can while making sure that our cocktails are consistent all of the time. Well, I got to tell you, I think I mentioned the Cococino and I hope that's not just a wintertime cocktail. I think it might be, but it is a fabulous cocktails made with Maker's Mark, Coconut Cartel, Faccio Bruto, Apertivo, Peixote Bitters, and Borghetti, D 'Aviro Cafe.

47:45I hope I'm not butchering that, but I think it's pretty close. It's great. And it is, it's a heavier cocktail for sure. It's more of a dessert type of cocktail, but it is phenomenal. And I also see, I mean, looking at your cocktail list right now, you have your dry January NA cocktails. Are NA cocktails though, I mean, it seems like they don't need to be seasonal anymore. It almost seems like the expectation for guests is that you will have three to four NA cocktails on your menu. Yes. And it kind of reminds me of how vegetarians probably used to feel like two decades ago, where, you know, you have your veggie plate and that's it on the menu.

48:22And now there's restaurants that are entirely vegetarian, and there's always expensive vegetarian options on every menu. And that's, I think, the world of mocktails. It used to be, well, we have sodas or, you know, I can mix some juices together, but now it's a much more serious part of the cocktail menu. I mean, there's cocktail bars that are entirely dry. So there's a demand for it. There's people wanting to come in and have a great, what feels like a cocktail, feel like a participant with their friends or their guests at the table. And they also don't want to be, have like a sugar bomb. They want something that's thoughtful and layered and maybe has herbs and teas and has just as much thought put into it as the cocktails do.

49:11So we strive to do that. And we have an amazing bar team that is just as excited and passionate about that. It's just about building flavors. So we're able to keep those options rotating just as much as we do with the cocktails. And it's been successful. People order them. They move. Well, a few years back, there was a small yet exciting brand called Seedlip, which made headway and made inroads into bars by saying, hey, we have a non-alcoholic spirit that tastes amazing and that can be a substitute for gin and vodka in your cocktails. And you can create a one-off and a cocktail for folks that are, you know, for one reason or another, not drinking.

49:54And Seedlip has become a much more established brand. It's part of a large strategic portfolio in Diageo. But I wonder for small brands like a Seedlip at the time that Seedlip started making those inroads, how do you ingratiate yourself? How do you approach beverage directors and bartenders as a small brand trying to break into an established and high volume or, you know, a location like yours or locations like yours? Now, I think just in general, the world of beverages welcomes that fully. At the time, I think it probably took a lot of traction of seeing it on other reputable menus. Like I think EMP did a good amount of mocktails before anybody else did.

50:41Eleven Madison Park. Yep. Yeah. So if you're in the field and you're setting up on what is everybody else around me doing, you see that. And I think Seedlip came in at the right time. And now you see Seedlip quite a bit. But also now we're being approached by many different non-alcoholic brands. And I think the world of them trying to sell is probably very similar to selling any other spirit at the moment, just depending on who do you have behind you and how are you getting backed up. But as far as the reception, we want to taste and see all. And there's huge brands that are making non-alcoholic versions now as well, which I think is also something that feels a little bit more comfortable both to the guest and to the bartender.

51:32Like Martini and Rossi makes a delicious non-alcoholic. I know there's some other major brands. Jafar is doing some non-alcoholic stuff. So it's very interesting right now. That's for sure. Do you prefer when you engage with a distribution rep about a particular brand or is it okay for, say, the brand owner or representative from that brand to come in and introduce their products to you? it depends what exactly is being presented if it's a large portfolio of non-alcoholic products for example my preference is to read from a distance and say this sounds interesting on paper and would probably certainly be more interesting in a conversation or you know these products are interesting to me i've never heard of it to just mentally compartmentalize what makes sense but i I think bartenders and our bar team and even our SOMs, like having the product to taste and available is one of the biggest influencers for them being like, tasted this amazing product.

52:36I really think we should bring it in. So the sampling, I think, is probably what's the most important part. So is it okay for an entrepreneur listening to bring in a bottle of their product to one of your bars and say, Hey, would you mind trying this? Or is that something you would say, don't do that? I don't want to speak for the entire beverage world, but I'm always open to coordinating a time in advance to have something dropped off and to taste it. I don't deny tasting anything. I think that's how I learn. And I think the bar team feels the same way. And in return, I'll always be honest of why it may or may not work for us.

53:18So, yeah, I feel like it's really important to just always stay open, honest and kind as well when trying to figure out what makes the most sense for our bars and creating those relationships and just progressing the beverage world in general. Well, I thank you for being open, honest, and kind over these last 30 minutes, Amy. Thank you so much for taking the time. I really, really appreciate it. Congrats on all the amazing work that you've done for John Frazier Restaurants, and I'm excited to return to one of them soon. Thank you so much.

53:55That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNet.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cratchy. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt. And our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smirlinski. And our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. check us out on instagram our handle is bevnet taste radio as always for questions comments ideas for future podcasts please send us an email to ask at taste radio.com on behalf of the entire taste radio team thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next time