Simple Is So Powerful. Complicated, On The Other Hand…

0:10Hello and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. Jackie, once again, looking very peppy for 8 a.m. in San Diego. I don't know how you do it. On my ride over, I just blast music, and I sing along, and I warm up the vocal cords. Okay. I used to do that, but I don't know any good music to listen to that will make me feel that way. What was the tune of the day? I was listening to Chapel Roan because she has some really great sing-along songs.

0:51If you haven't listened to her, you gotta listen to her. I'm on it. But she's on the rise. Sing-along songs? Yeah, Ray looks so confused. I do. He's like, what's that? Ray's like, the wheels on the bus? He's like, is that a... Is that like a salad? Yum. Yummy. I know who that artist is. You do? That's a good one. Yeah. Yes. Ray's more into the wiggles these days. No, apparently her concert series has been a humongous hit to the point where they don't know what to do add more shows add more capacity so yeah very cool nice problem to have indeed indeed and this is all happening at the same time is something called bratsummer okay i am completely clueless about this i can't be the only one it's like reinstalled tick tock over the weekend exactly he called to ask where the disc was for exactly yeah uh how do you have five and recorder.

1:42How do you put this into your car tape? Yes. Yes. No, Brat Summer. Does anyone know what this means? Am I, is it already over? Did I miss it? No, it's not over. It's still going. Okay. Jackie, do you know what this is? Yeah. I mean, I would say most people at those music festivals are having great Brat Summer. I feel like it just means like being unapologetic, being bold, having a lot of fun and kind of bragging a little bit about it. Like Megan Klein at Lollapalooza. did you see those outfits? Those were awesome. Did not see that. Yeah. She had a, uh, Little Saints had a booth at Lollapalooza and, uh, it looked like a really fun time.

2:19Nice. Nice. She brought the thunder outfit wise. Little Saints, the maker of non-alcoholic cocktails and a non-alcoholic, we won't call it Mezcal, but Mezcal like product. She had an outfit that I call Miami camo and she dressed basically as an orange tree. Very cool. It was pretty sweet. Well, I did mention, I wanted to figure out for myself what Brat Summer was all about. And so John Craven very kindly asked ChatGPT to tell me, he said, in the screenshot, thank you very much for this. Please explain Brat Summer to a boomer. I ain't no boomer, man. I'm like, come on, this is crazy now. Okay. You know, it's like some people are like, my biological age is like, I don't know, 25 when they're in their 40s.

2:57Okay. Oh my God. You know, well, what's funny is the question is, please explain Brad Summer to a boomer. And then chat GPT starts with, sure, exclamation point. So it's very careful about responding to this question. And there are - He was waiting for it all morning. There are four topics or four answers here with an explanation past each one. A youthful rebellion, pop culture influence, social, okay, social media, celebration of fun and freedom. So I guess this is all attached to Brad Summer. But anyway, thank you, Jackie, for not judging me. Ray, would you say you're having a brat summer? I don't think I could say that.

3:37I mean, for me, every summer is a brat summer. I call it the summer of Ray. Since 2006. You're being pretty bratty about brat summer right now. Since 2006, when I was 16 years old, I've been having the summer of Ray. And it's been wonderful, yes. If we could all have the summer of Ray. Okay. Yeah, that'll be the next Brat Summer. So that's what everyone's going to be saying. They just renamed it to Brat Summer. I wasn't sure if it referred to meat products, like a sausage brat. That'd be Brat Summer. Oh, Brat Summer. Okay, well, I actually brought some brat-ish products, but I'm not going to talk about those yet.

4:13That's going to be the second surprise. But I told everyone that I have a surprise for you. And this is going to turn a few people off in this room, perhaps those who are listening as well, because it's completely the antithesis of what Taste Radio is all about, perhaps. Bag of GMOs? I brought some Twinkies. Yes, it is a bag of GMOs here. Okay, so Hostess. Well, look at that chill dude on the back of the box. What does it say? The mayor of what? No, he is Dude Dad. Dude Dad? What's the name of Dude Dad? I'm going to explain. This is like corporate marketing trying to be cool. Yeah, I don't remember the last time I saw Twinkies.

4:50Certainly not in this room. Okay, so Hostess, which is the maker of Twinkies. Should I explain what Twinkies are, John? I would love to hear that. There's someone out there who is like, I don't know what those actually are. Okay, so they're individually wrapped golden cakes. Anyway, with green filling. Golden sponge cakes. It's like a piece of a Nerf with some stuff in the middle. It's a stuffed Nerf. Nerf's a Nerf bullet. Still very, very popular. So Twinkies introduced a new mystery limited edition flavor in collaboration with a content creator. His name is Taylor Kalmus. also known as Dude Dad, on social media.

5:30Can we please have a Twinkie fight? Can we throw them at each other, please? No, no, no, we can't do that. Nate's going to get really mad if we mess up the room. Sorry for crapping on Dude Dad. That's, I mean. So Dude Dad has. At least he got paid for this, right? Dude Dad has 1.1 million followers. No, he does not. Let me see Dude Dad. On Instagram. Hold on. His bio describes him as being a dad while staying a dude. Hashtag Dude Dad. What does that even mean? I don't know what that means, actually. I want to see how many followers he has. Is he older? Like, is he an older influencer? No, he's not.

6:00I mean, he's a dad. He can't be that. I already took one. Oh, she just, come on. I wanted to have a fight. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop throwing these around, please. They are Nerf. Okay. Mystery flavor. So, on his YouTube description, it says, Taylor Kelmis is a Colorado-based video creator with the help of his wife and two best friends, Burke and DJ. He makes sketches, DIY, and vlog videos about his family life. He also stars in Magnolia Network's Super Dad, in which he helps other dads make their kids' backyard dreams a reality. So that's doodad for you. So hostess partnered with him because they felt like a collaboration was a perfect match.

6:38I am curious. This smells like Froot Loops. I don't know if I can take a bite of that. Have they significantly reduced the size of a Twinkie? Are these like mini Twinkies? Yes, they've changed dramatically since the 1970s. Maybe last time you had one, you were just a lot smaller. That's definitely true. Yeah, so I guess if you guess the flavor, you can post it on the hostess Instagram page and you'll get some prizes. There's got to be some colorful comments. I am going to smell this first and then try it. Do it. Fruit Loops is not what this is. Oh, right. Smells like strawberry. The guy doesn't eat anything.

7:13And this is the thing he chooses to eat. I'm not going to. Well, I don't know. They were very kind of saying this to me. Okay. Smells like strawberries or raspberry. Okay. I think raspberry. Nine grams of fat. 35 milligrams of cholesterol. 370 milligrams of sodium. I'm going with raspberry. 47 grams total carbohydrates. Raspberry is their mystery flavor. There's protein in Twinkies? It's very strawberry raspberry-ish. They must have a fun name or something to make it spicier. Rizberry. For the kids.

7:47Rizberry. Well done. There we go. Yeah. Ray knows a Gen Alpha term. I'm sure that's TM somewhere. You know, if you read the most recent edition of the Taste Radio newsletter, you would know I talk quite a bit about Gen Alpha terms actually in that. If you want to sign up for the Taste Radio newsletter, and you should, become a VIP. Just head to tasteradio.com slash VIP to sign up. Not just the newsletter. You get all kinds of fun things coming your way. Ray might send you a Twinkie. We'll tell you a Twinkie. If someone really, really, really stop throwing those, please. Someone requests a Twinkie.

8:20I think we should save these and we'll send them a Twinkie. We should. We should. How many do we have left? Like six or seven? They never expire, right? Yes. They never expire. Let's put these back in the box. The rest could be nuked and these would be okay. Can I keep these to tell various people in the office? No. I open this one. Let's put these back in the box. All right. What's in the box? It was fun to throw them at you guys. Yeah. Okay. So that was my surprise number one. All right. Well, that was an interesting surprise. But we're going to move on from that because I don't think we can spend more than a few minutes chatting about Twinkies.

8:46I don't understand why limited edition has a question mark on it, but okay. It's because of the mystery flavor, which you said is Rizberry. I think it's Rizberry. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But that's just me. Every Twinkie has a lot of mystery inside, which I didn't understand why this one needed a question mark. Fair enough. Fair enough. In slightly more relevant news to the NOSH listening audience, I saw a story today penned by our colleagues Shauna Golden and Adrian DeLuca. The title is Akua shuts down, citing manufacturing catastrophes in decline of plant-based movements. Akua was a maker of kelp-based burgers.

9:30And their founder and CEO, Courtney Boyd Myers, announced on LinkedIn that the New York-based company is shutting down. And it also alleges, or excuse me, she also alleges that Akua was copied by its supply chain partner. So a lot of things went wrong here. I think, however, the thing that probably went most wrong for the company was calling their product a kelp burger. I don't think I or anyone else was ever enticed to eat a kelp burger. Maybe that was the problem, John Graven? I mean, people do like kelp, though. It's a known good-for-you ingredient. I think a, what's the word I'm looking for?

10:08Superfood? Superfood. I was going to say, I mean, they're basically just, you know, pulling it out of the ocean. It's like a... Oh, unprocessed. Yeah. Kelp is great, but as a burger? I don't know. But I mean, at least it tells you what it is and sort of tells you it's not like some funny ingredients, right? Yeah, I think like focusing specifically on it as an ingredient could have maybe had some issues. Like I know in the vegan and vegetarian community, it's an important source of like iodine and vitamin B12 that you usually get from meat products. So a lot of people in those communities eat kelp and seaweed, but for mainstream consumers, they might not understand the health benefits of kelp.

10:50And they might also deter them because they might think that it tastes very fishy or, you know, might be off-putting. It contains 20 vitamins, 16 amino acids, 6 minerals, and 11 micronutrients, making it a superfood. That's all well and good. And I appreciate the fact that kelp is a superfood. But a burger. But a burger, exactly. Yeah, that was your point. And I think it's a great point. I think it's a little bit of maybe a cop-out to say a decrease in the plant-based trend where, yes, there's a decrease in the use of the word plant-based. Everybody's really tired of hearing plant-based, plant-based, plant-based, plant-based, but people are still eating plants.

11:31Let's be really frank about this, because if you want to be a mainstream brand, kelp, I don't think is going to be the ingredient that gets you there. I just don't see a real runway for it in that kind of way. That's a hero ingredient. Exactly. I mean, yes, there are some really interesting kelp-based products at Whole Foods, at Sprouts, at whatnot. But if you want to be in Costco, if you want to be in Walmart, if you want to be in Target, that's not going to get you there. Actual Veggies, on the other hand, the brand Actual Veggies, a maker of Whole Food Ingredient burgers, all vegetables, Their black bean veggie burger is very, very delicious.

12:10And they are everywhere now, seemingly everywhere. And everyone knows what a veggie burger is. I mean, we've been growing up on veggie burgers for 30 years. So it's not a hard leap to go from, oh, I know what this is to, let me try this and see if it's actually better than what I've tried in the past. Whereas a Kelt Burger, you have to make that leap of faith. And actual veggies has a phenomenal differentiator, which is, this is actually made out of vegetables. I mean, it explains itself right there for you. People know what a sweet potato is. People know what a black bean is. People know what mushrooms are.

12:45People know what roots are for the most part. I mean, I think kelp, you don't know what the flavor is going to be. You don't know what it does for you. Oh, is it going to be a slimy burger? So yes, all these things may have happened where they had manufacturing challenges. Yes, maybe people are becoming more confused about what plant-based foods are all about because there's been a lot of confusion just in that space. You know, is it good for me? Is it not good for me? is an impossible burger, the same thing as a kelp burger, is it heavily processed, so on and so forth. But at the core of this discussion, at the core of, I think the core problem was calling yourself a kelp burger.

13:18Well, they also had a variety of products. So they had a bunch of different products and it was all just based on the ingredient of kelp. And again, like calling that out in each individual category, rather than calling out like the value props of like sustainability and what it's actually doing for you functionally. No, that's a good point, Jackie. They did have a kelp jerky, a kelp pasta, kelp protein balls, spices, chocolate. But I think the only thing that ever could have really taken off, I mean, kelp protein balls, look, I just never, I just don't see a big runway for that either. But burgers seem to be the one way they could get in the door of a household.

13:58And it's just, I just, I don't know. Yeah, it's also performed well in a condiment format. Like I've seen a bunch of hot sauces and spices and things like that, where it gives you that like umami flavor and it gives you a little bit of extra nutrients in it. But it's not like the main focus. I think what you were talking about, Ray, people, you're talking about mainstream America doesn't understand how to eat kelp. And having kelp as the hero probably was the thing that really turned people off or didn't make Akua into the sustainable idea that it could have been. Clearly, it sounds like I'm dumping on Akua and I feel bad about that.

14:36So let me first apologize to the founders of Akua. And I don't want to work to the company. Anytime a company goes under, it's not a good thing. But I do want to say that in all these conversations that I've had with entrepreneurs over the years, the one thing that typically rises to the top in terms of success is simplicity. Keep it simple. Keep it easily understood. Make it such that someone doesn't have to be educated to a certain point such that they have to buy a product, right? Like there has to be a point of reference in this case, like we're talking about burgers. But again, it's a large leap, I think, for the average person to go from burger to veggie burger to kelp burger.

15:15A brand that I think does a good job in like the seaweed space is like Cicharrones. Like it's very playful. It's very direct, like pointed. This is kind of like a Cicharone. There's some C element to it, but it's not like super focused on the ingredient. And I'm sure the founders of Akua at some point were sitting around going kelp, simple, it's super. you know, this is going to go places and maybe they went a little bit too wide on it or just, you know, like you said, Ray, positioning as a burger, things of that nature that just didn't go the way they wanted it to. And it is a shame because, you know, kelp does have those benefits and people should eat more kelp for sure.

15:51I think also, you know, sometimes like just having a lot of products too, like one of these, if it were the only thing that you focused on, it might've had a better chance for success. You know, that's something that, uh, I guess another company that was sort of this week trying to keep it simple and focus in is Eat the Change, who, you know, they make fruit snacks as well as Just Iced Tea. They're getting rid of their food products and going all in on Just Iced Tea. And, you know, I think that's one of those things where sometimes what you start out with and the products that you kind of end up in, the actual opportunity might not lie in the thing that was the impetus for the company's founding, right?

16:31Right. And I'm sure there's a lot of great lessons learned from Akua that the founders will bring to either another company or their next startup. Well, perhaps we can get the founder of Akua on the show if she doesn't hate me right now. Courtney, my apologies for being to hate her. I'd love to hear from her. Yeah, I'd love to hear from you as well. But she's probably gonna be like, go F yourself, right? Anyway, that's kind of what I'm like. And we're all You gave us those Twinkies. I did. Courtney, we're like that too all the time. So as I'm saying that, John is going to pop some champagne here.

17:02Like I'm thirsty. He's not popping champagne. He has some non-alcoholic wine that was sent to us, I believe, by the Zero Proof folks. Yes? No. No? Okay. But this is a brand called Oddbird. It is a champagne. It's a non-alcoholic champagne. It's a Blanc de Blanc. I'm just trying to keep you in suspense. I didn't mean to show you the label. There's some cans of Tempranillo in the fridge that are pretty outstanding. Tempranillo. Tempranillo. Hotbird has a bunch of different, they have some 750 milliliters like this and some single serve 12 ounce cans maybe. Well, cheers. Beautiful, beautiful label.

17:42There you go. Very tasty. Tastes like a sparkling apple cider. It's pretty close, yeah. More than it does a Blanc de Blanc, a typical Blanc de Blanc. but it's got some good sour notes to it. As far as non-alcoholic wine, we've talked about this. The sparkling stuff always rises to the top for non-alcoholic wine. That is. Yeah, that's tasty. Yeah. And definitely like the branding of it too. The Tempranillo also sparkling. It's more like a Lambrisco. I like the liberated from alcohol tagline on it. It's not screaming non-alcoholic. So it's a rescue mission. Liberated. Liberated. Just like me, liberated.

18:20Fought off all that bad alcohol. It's kind of like the Ghia tagline. They don't say under the influence. They say over the influence. You like that? Over the influence. That is a great tagline. Sounds like the tagline for Four Loko, but hey. Oh, yeah. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more. Okay, so everyone here is a fan of the brand Snoods, which is a maker of pasta-based snacks. Their snacks are made from pasta.

19:01That brand came up three times in separate conversations this week alone. Nice, and we've talked about Snoods on the podcast. They've joined us in a past episode of our Elevator Talk series in which we highlight early-stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry. You want to take part, head to BevNet or Nosh.com to find out more. Elevator Talk is the name of the show. Tantos is the name of this brand. I have my hand. They're a maker of puffed pasta chips. There are four varieties, including their marinara. Got a lasagna in there, maybe? Their pesto. Their classical. And their cacio e pepe.

19:38Cacio e pepe, I think, is the one I probably don't need to try. The marinara one looks really interesting. So much yes. Why so much yes? Well, yes to basil and parm, crispy and puffed. I mean, it's a really appetizing looking package. I love the way they've got the chips piled up on the front. It's pretty clear to see what the flavor is. The flavor cues are really great on this. Yeah, interesting packaging. I like it. What did you open up there, Ray? John opened up the marinara. Okay. Owned up the cacio e pepe, too. Nice. They're really good. They're puffed. They're puffed. Yeah. This is less obvious that it's pasta.

20:20Yeah, well, this is interesting because after Snooze, this is the second product I've seen in the market that's doing a pasta-based snack. And then a couple episodes back, a few episodes back, we had a brand that marketed Penne Straws. Yes. I forget the name of the company. I think the name of the company was Vintage Italia. And their Penne Straws were part of this whole very, very nascent, tiny, extremely tiny new category of pasta-based snacks. Interesting stuff. This marinara takes me back to this pizza shop that I used to love when I was a kid. And I don't know why I just got that flavor when I tasted this.

20:59And that's really awesome. I love when a snack does that. And thanks, Tantos. Yeah. That's the marinara. You want to try the festo? Full standpoint here. Yeah. What else have you opened over there, John? All of them. All of them. You might send some over here. Okay. I'll give you the cacio e pepe. Thank you. Yeah, so the CEO of Tantos is going to be joining us for an upcoming episode of Elevator Talk. And the founder of this company is a man named Joe Sasto. He's a chef, and he has competed on Bravo's Top Chef, along with other Food Network shows. So interesting stuff. I'm excited to learn more about this brand.

21:38Pretty tasty. For sure. Jack, you got anything crunchy over there that you want to crunch into your microphone and drive our listeners crazy like we are? I don't think I have anything for ASMR. I have some cans that I could open, you know, and maybe sprinkle on something, some sauce that could, you know, slop around. But I have, I have Louisa, which is a line of Latin spices and sofrito. And I was actually using the sofrito on like everything all day yesterday. Brings me back to like high school. My friend is Chilean and we'd have sofrito rice and it just like blew my mind because I grew up on just like meat and potatoes.

22:21So it was the first time I tasted flavor. And it's delicious. The first time I tasted flavor. The taste of flavor. Literally, it was just like mind blown. Oh yeah, they wouldn't even be offended. They know. So yeah, they have a delicious sofrito, which is like a really nice cooking sauce with cilantro and tomato and some peppers. And then they have sazon and adobo. So it's cool to see some, you know, clean options. A lot of people use like Goya and other traditional Latin staples. And I love their packaging. It's very clean, bright. It's delicious. And how's the flavor compared to the traditional staples?

23:00I would say it's good. I would say what I've had is a little bit spicier, but I think I also like spicier and my palate and maybe Latin palates are a little bit more inclined to spicier. So I think maybe this is like their first entry point and then they're going to offer different levels, but it's really delicious. Excellent. Nice. Nice. I'm glad your palate has evolved to appreciate spicy flavors and not bland steak and roasted potatoes. Although, you know, there was a time and place for that as well. Yeah. Overcooked meat and like barbecue sauce, you know overcoached meat oh no that's the worst yeah yes okay now john has some more liquid for us to drink i've just moved on to okay lapos aperitivo which i think not too long ago we talked about the lapos rtd non-alcoholic negroni and to be clear it's l-a-p-o apostrophe s yes beautiful looking bottle i mean i think probably maybe the nicest looking na 750 15-mallion bottles I've seen.

24:04It's very Roaring 20s, Art Deco-ish. There's a little bit of steampunk in there, actually, as well. A little propaganda. A little bit of everything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but pretty solid liquid. I mean, if you're into making non-alco cocktails at home, want to up your game? Yes, please. It's pretty good. I mean, it's a nice, maybe a little sweeter than a Campari without the burn, but it's got some good complex flavor in there. I'm assuming that's what's in the Negroni as well. Probably. I mean, that Negroni is one of the top ones we've had. It really is. They're a Negroni. I had one a couple weekends ago, and it was pretty darn tasty.

24:43Right up there with phony Negroni. Yeah. I think if they could somehow dial back the sugar, they would be an even better Negroni position. But as it is, it's quite a good product. Mike brought about a thousand shots with him. I did. I love these shots. It's called Saga. S-A-G-A. It's a line of functional shots that tastes really good. I just had the Focus Plus Clarity shot called Spotlight. There's one called Sunray. These are all focused on the functionality over the flavor, and they just happen to taste great. There's a panel on the side that tells you what's in it sunray which is for productivity and motivation there's surge to activate and recharge there's uh starlight for sleep and snooze and ray this one surprised me there's supernova which is for euphoria and buzz and guess what's in it dhc yeah some cbd and some delta 8 thc i was surprised because i saw some of these shots in the danger fridge well not in the non-danger fridge And I saw John in the hallway and I said, get these out of the fridge.

25:51Someone's going to get high during the day. Because, you know, if you consume even five milligrams of THC, you will be a problem child. No, I'm just kidding, obviously. Well, I will. No, actually, that's not true. Only if it's... He had about 150. Yeah, I probably had about 30 or 40. But the only feedback on the supernova is it looks so much like the starlight, the surge, and the Sunray. And by all means, this package is, it's beautiful. And they made some good choices here in terms of just like the colors for the functions and leaning into function versus flavor. And then all the flavors are good.