So Much Potential, But What Makes It Investable?

26:44They use only certified all-natural pork and nine ingredients. This is pre-sliced chorizo. It looks amazing. It actually looks like the real chorizo you would get from a tapas restaurant as opposed to the chorizo that you'd buy in the supermarket. it. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but that's, that's how I'm looking at this. As opposed to your lunchable that you eat every day. Correct. Speaking of which, I'm going to have some of this for lunch and I'm not sharing with many people. Okay, fine. You can have some if you want. Michael put Funky Mellow on it. I think I have some, it's all over me.

27:16So good. I guess I'm saving some for later. I brought you a spoon. I know. I know, but I just really like Funky Mellow. It is good. Good people. I know I've done a shout out on the show before to Michelle too from Homia but I finally made the the laksa and for those who don't know laksa is a soup noodle it's made with coconut milk and tamarind and usually put an egg and noodles and such in it and I've never tried to make it on my own and Homia makes it really easy you know when I was talking to Michelle about she's like oh you can eat it for breakfast lunch and dinner and I totally would it was delicious I can't wait to try more homea.

27:56We also met the founder of Paro, P-A-R-O, and she sent her tarka our way. And I think I finally am allowed, I think it's finally out of the photo queue, so I can actually try it. It says it's a spicy, toasty topping with ghee. And I feel kind of embarrassed because I haven't had a lot of food from Pakistan, but the more I try, the more I like. I can't wait to really dive into this. It's so good. Then we met the founder of Paro back at the Snackshot event at Expo West and she sent us some samples. And we also met the founder of Update, which is a better for you energy drink. Caffeine free energy drink, in fact.

28:32Caffeine free energy drink, exactly. Which is really interesting because you feel the boost without the caffeine. And I don't know, I like the way this made me feel when I tried it. And I've, you know, I've had a few since then. And I don't know, this feels like innovation to me. Well, anything that's a caffeine free energy drink is going to grab some attention, especially because people are very sensitive or seemingly more sensitive to caffeine than they have in the past. Right. So yeah, interesting to see how that plays out. At first, I thought that was a can of Focus. P-H-O-C-U-S. It does look a little bit like Focus.

29:07It's a really well done can, though. It's got, you know, a little bit of futuristic graphics and stuff like that. But I like the call outs, zero sugar, zero caffeine, which again, as you said, Ray, it says it's energy and then zero caffeine. So those are opposing. so you're looking at this going how what's in it well good for them focus also just unveiled a rebrand it looks pretty darn different than that can you're holding in your hand mike yeah focus a caffeinated sparkling water brands uh just partnered with rapper jack harlow they have a brand new look and obviously a pretty high profile partner i feel like when we get that new can we to talk about it on Taste Radio.

29:47Maybe. I'm also drinking the Passion Fruit Hibiscus Petal Ginger Ale, which is pretty tasty. Nice. And I'm drinking Bossa Nova. So we just got a bunch of their products into the office. It's a line of functional sparkling waters with a little bit of fruit juice. This one is Immunity. So it's orange Acerola, Acerola Cherry. and I also have here the Recover, which is their limelight flavor. Each product features a functional ingredient and really taps into their benefits. Industry legend Neil Kimberly is there, right? He is. Talk to him at Expo West. That's pretty tasty stuff. Yeah, this is really, really tasty.

30:29Really nice and light. I like the addition of the 5 % fruit juice. I'm a fan of that. I'm a fan of Spindrift, those types of beverages. You don't get like, I don't know, weird aftertaste or anything like that. So this is really tasty. Yeah. It's a pretty cool pivot for the brand that's been around for a pretty long time. Started out kind of as a acai juice brand. So cool to see the sparkling. And they just sent us a bunch to try. So can't wait to get, can't wait to get the bottom of a few cans of that. And another beverage I have, which features a fruit is spicy lemonade. So this is called lemon back and this one's spicy pineapple lemonade.

31:07And it's pretty much lemonade with a kick. This one features jalapeno in it. All right. Yeah. And I'm obviously a fan of spicy food. I'm going to give it a go. Do they have one with a fly by Jing? They don't. That'd be an interesting. I want that. Yeah. Ari Suswan, who's the founder of that company, reached out to us and talks about he was how he was a fan of the podcast. And I really appreciate when people do that. When new founders reach out, introduce themselves and their brands and their products to us. It's great. And here we are talking about it on the show. Let's get him on Elevator Talk.

31:42Yeah, for sure. He will one day be on Elevator Talk. Awesome. Bald prediction. Already done.

31:51All right. It's time to get to our featured interview for this episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, Alexandra Dempster and Isabel Steichen are the co-founders of Lupe, an innovative brand of lupini bean-based foods. Launched in 2020, Lupe debuted with a line of plant-based protein bars highlighted by its hero ingredient, which the brand promotes as, a high-fiber legume that has two times more protein than chickpeas and three times more protein than eggs. In August of 2022, Lupe entered the pasta category with a three-skew line of high protein and high fiber varieties that contain significantly less carbs than traditional pasta.

32:32The brand is represented in hundreds of chain and independent retailers, primarily in the Northeast, Midwest, and Pacific Northwest, including Whole Foods, Safeway, and Jewel Osco. I sat down with Alexandra and Isabel at Expo West 2023 for a conversation about Lupe's origins and their alignment as co-founders, how they shifted from survival mode amid the early months of the pandemic to a focus on thoughtful growth at retail, how they were able to attract interest and funding from angel investors, and their vision and plan to develop a platform brand.

33:11Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm honored to be sitting in front of Isabel Seiken and Allie Dempster, the co-founders of Loopy. Hi Ray. Thanks for having us. Always love chatting. Thank you so much for being with me. How's your Expo West going? It's been great. Yeah. It's our first show. We've walked, both of us, before. And this is the first time we're exhibiting. And it's just been super exciting to be here. And so for our audience, that was Isabel. Allie, how are you feeling? Hi. It's been amazing. It's my first time with Loopy doing an exhibit, as Isabel said. And it's just been a great show.

33:39Great buyer meetings. Great seeing old friends. Bustling. Bustling. Yes. I mean, a tidal wave of people, I think we could say. Yeah. I said hurricane. I said hurricane of people. Because it just seemed like everyone was kind of like whipping in one direction. Exactly. Exactly. Are people getting Loopy? Do you feel like the message is getting out there? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I know it's something we want to talk about, but we're really building this brand for Lupini Beans. And it feels like as people come by, way more people than other shows are familiar with Lupini Beans. And then definitely there's an excitement about it when people start to learn about it and taste the product.

34:14So, yeah, fun time. A platform brand centered around a hero ingredient. We've seen brands like this before, but Lupi is very different in that you are hearing the Lupini bean. Talk a bit about the history of the company, why you started it, and why you chose Lupini beans as that ingredient. Totally, totally. So it starts with, well, about 10 years ago, I moved to the States and on a personal level transitioned from a vegetarian to a vegan diet. Spent my career in early stage startups, but in my free time, spent a lot of time immersing myself in a plant-based food space. Believe it or not, I actually used to have a podcast with my husband called The Plantiful, where we were interviewing plant-based changemakers across different industries.

34:54And one thing that stood out to me, especially coming from Europe, was that functionality was top of mind for people, especially when transitioning or trying to eat more plant-based. There was a real concern around protein. My friends kept asking me, where are you getting enough protein from on a plant-based diet? So I was intrigued by that insight and started researching ingredients because what I identified was that there was a real focus on soy and pea in this country. It's kind of dominating the market in plant-based protein. So very little diversity. And also knowing that a lot of consumers are actively moving away from soy and pea protein.

35:27So I thought, well, there must be another solution. So that brought me back to my roots. Growing up in Luxembourg, lots of my friends were Italian and Portuguese. So they have been eating lupini in those cultures for a long time. Can we pause there? Did you say Italian and Portuguese growing up in Luxembourg? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Totally. because we're a super diverse place. You know, we have like 50 % of people that live in Luxembourg weren't born in Luxembourg. And through kind of European history, we had a lot of immigration in the 40s and 50s from Portugal and Italy. So most of my friends growing up were not actually from Luxembourg.

36:01So back to lupini beans in Italy, in Portugal, in Greece, like the Mediterranean in general, lupini beans have been around for a very long time. They're actually a really well-established ingredient going back to ancient Roman times, even. And as I started researching the ingredient, I was blown away by the nutritional profile. It's the only bean that is so high in protein, higher than any other legume, even higher than soy. And the only bean that's also super low in carbs, which Americans love high protein, low carb foods. And so I was like, how is this ingredient not in the States knowing that there's increasing demand among consumers to eat higher quality plant-based protein sources.

36:41So that was kind of like the origin story. I started thinking about the ingredient and I have not spent my career in food and beverage. I actually spent it in early stage tech startups. So loved the startup space, but knew nothing about food and beverage. So, you know, realized that I needed a co-founder and went on a quest to find my co-founder, which was quite a process. And I had gotten to the point where I thought, yeah, that's going to be really hard finding a person with a really solid food and beverage background, who's willing to just jump into this crazy idea of bringing Lupini means to the States.

37:13And then I was introduced to Ali. So that's amazing. I had no idea. I thought you guys were just had been friends for a long time. No, no, no, no. Oh, wow. Okay. It was one of the most fortuitous meetings of a lifetime. I mean, so I've spent my career in food and beverage. I will give you the short story, but the short story for me is, you know, I had been going down this path professionally, but then personally was suffering from a lot of chronic health issues. And on that journey really started to take a little bit more ownership of my health and understanding food was playing a really big role in how I was feeling.

37:44And what I started to realize over time is if I could bring my different worlds together professionally, this personal passion I was developing for food and food systems, understanding that would be incredibly exciting to me. And a former coworker of mine, a shout out to Rachel, had met Isabel in passing through sort of the startup community in New York and wrote me a one-line email. I met someone, you guys are all about the same thing. You should meet each other. I think a Sunday after a yoga class, grabbed coffee with Isabel at the Whole Foods on Bowery, where we sell loopy bars today. So full circle.

38:15And I mean, it was just a sort of love at first sight conversation. I had been doing a lot of work in past life, looking at legumes and beans as a huge opportunity area and was focused a little bit more on salty snack space, but was so excited by what you can do with beans. And then when you think of lupini beans, which I was familiar with, you think about this incredible trifecta of functional benefits that it has. So as Isabel said, high protein, high fiber, low carbohydrate. It's just a really incredible composition from a functional perspective. And then it is also really incredible because it can be utilized as a whole food.

38:51And as someone also who follows a plant-based diet, one of the things I always look for is really simple whole food propositions, things that aren't super processed. And, you know, there's lots of amazing foods out there in sort of the plant-based space, but not all of them are something that you want to probably be eating every day. They are just really great, fun, delicious foods, but maybe not great from a health perspective. And using a whole food, we can really create delicious food as well. So that is what we set on a quest to do and launched our bars, our first range of Loopy bars, six simple ingredients, high protein, high fiber bars in January of 2020.

39:27and what a wild time we're still here. January of 2020. What a time that was. We thought we were off to the races. And, you know, we joke about it and we will be very candid and say this. You know, I met Isabel and coming from food, I said, ooh, a bar, like, scariest eye on the grocery store to play. But let's do it because I really believe this is a white space. And, I mean, it's not that bars are easy, but if you're doing something different, we always say it's like a Lara bar meets a Quest bar. Simple food, but all of the function that someone's looking for. but then also a global pandemic hits and on the go, on the go eating just sort of disappeared, came to a halt.

40:00So if only we had been, you know, a bread mix at the time when everyone was baking at home, but you know, we survived and momentum picked up again and we grew the business online during that crazy period. I do want to talk about creating a bar and surviving a little bit more, but I got to go back to this question or this topic of finding a co-founder. I mean, Isabel, I mean, that's pretty self-aware to say, look, I can't do this by myself. And I think there's a lot of founders who probably wish they had gone back in time and said, I should have just done this. I should have found a co-founder that can help me.

40:33But it's one thing to meet someone and have the same kind of, I guess, vibe as that person. Yeah. It's a vibe. Yeah. People. Yeah. It's another thing to say, you're going to become my business partner. Yeah. Yeah. We're responsible for each other's money. Yeah. And life, honestly. Yeah. Yeah, totally. How do you create a foundation for doing that well? Yeah. Well, for one, just to go back to, you know, the self-awareness piece, I worked for early search startups my entire career. And I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. And the most successful businesses I worked for were businesses that had complementary teams of co-founders and leadership.

41:10So what I had seen was you need to join forces with people. It takes a village. You know, I don't believe that a person can do something alone. I mean, it's impossible, right? You don't have all the answers. You don't have all the experience. So I'm a deep believer in that. And then I think there's definitely like the personal connection that we had. There's a lot of kind of parallels in our life that we were able to bond over. We're also very different people, I think, but incredibly complimentary. And we're super communicative. You know, we both are big believers in just being open with each other, talking about stuff.

41:44I don't know if this is more a female trait also, maybe just really kind of talking when things don't work. And so creating trust in that way. And sometimes I reflect on a crazy time that we kind of jumped into, you know, when we launched the pandemic hit two months later. And I think it was like a level of trauma bonding, maybe almost like going to this together and just being like, OK, we can do this together. Yeah. And not backing out. And like just this mutual trust, because I feel like Ali at any point could have been like, you know, screw this. I'm going to go back to Pepsi, but she didn't.

42:15And so we've just been kind of committed. I mean, I think having a partner, I come from a background in my career with working on innovation. And I think something I just like as a human is like asking why and questions and like having lots of different perspectives and opinions. And I think that always makes things stronger. And so having a partner where, you know, we have this really, as you say, there's the like intangible vibe there. There is a really shared vision for sort of the work we want to do in the world and the contribution we want to try to make. And then also really seeing the asset of like coming with different mindsets and thinking and ways of operating is one of the greatest strengths we have as a business.

42:57Did you have to do anything legal wise? I mean, was there a contract that you wanted to sign amongst each other or was it that you vibed so well that you were like, I feel like there's a level of trust that we can move forward together and make this work together. I mean, you know, we, and we didn't, we didn't sign a contract. We talked about it though. Cause we both come, I mean, not to get too personal, but we both come from families with divorced parents and we're like, should we have, like, should we talk to a lawyer about a prenuptial agreement? Like this is not, I'm not an anti-romantic, but it's just like, this is practical, but we didn't end up doing that.

43:26And what someone said to us, we, we did talk to a lawyer and they said, you know, you are ahead of 99 % of people that you're even talking to us about this. And And I think that developed trust because it's not scary to talk about. And we're both, you know, we're people, we're works in progress. We're very human. But there's a real ability to talk about our feelings and ourselves. And we really work at that and try to stop and take meetings. It's like, how are you doing as a person, as a founder, as just someone like moving through the world every day? Because it does take so much of your life over in good and hard ways sometimes.

44:02times. I mean, I think that's incredible because you don't hear that too, too often from founders. It's just like, I need to talk to someone and, you know, who am I going to talk to about the problems that we're going through, especially the last three years. And so having each other, I think has been probably one of the huge reasons you've been able to get to where you are right now. I definitely think so. A million percent. I think so. I remember walking through Madison Square Park and we were just like early days and just saying to Isabel, you know, you just have this sense that loopy running any business will be sort of the greatest playing field for developing and learning about ourselves as people no matter how it turns out it's just going to bring up all of your strengths all of your weaknesses and if you're willing to look at them harness your strengths understand your weaknesses you're going to end up being the best version of yourself on the other side of it no matter where the business goes and i think that to me is something i really hold on to every day i first met you guys in summer of 2020 when Loopy participated in Nosh's Pitch Slam virtually.

45:01And it was great because I'd never seen a product like this before. And I think our judges felt the same way. I think there was some, like there is with a lot of early stage brands, some skepticism as to whether or not you could make it past 2020. Especially in the context. Yes. Clearly you have. Yeah. And, you know, going from survival mode in 2020 to, okay, how can we build a brand at retail and build beyond direct-to-consumer in 2021 and beyond? I mean, what was that process like? Yeah. I think one piece back to we were forced to be a D2C. Well, forced. We had a choice. Either shut down the business or try to figure it out, right?

45:40Yeah, I guess that's a choice. So we went to try to figure it out. We're going to make this business work. Exactly. And so I think one of the big benefits was direct consumer insights that we would never have gotten that quickly in retail. You know, I don't know if you remember, but our packaging used to be transparent, for example, which we thought was really cool. But the problem was with a single barrier protection, the product was drying out really quickly. So it was hard to really preserve this excellent, like moist flavor, texture of the product. So those were some insights that we got. People were just like, oh, it's too dry.

46:10So we're like, OK, great. Let's change that. Let's fix it. And then we started with these wrappers, the opaque ones. And that was a real benefit because then when we started pitching to retailers, we landed doors pretty quickly when reviews were happening again for our category. So the insights that we got from being D2C were just incredibly beneficial. A lot of us to iterate. At improving, exactly. And then also gave us access to a community of engaged, loopy consumers who love the brand, who purchase the bars that we could use as kind of an innovation group when thinking about what is the next category that we're going into.

46:46And that was hugely beneficial to run some of that innovation process by this group of existing engaged consumers, which, again, we couldn't wouldn't have been able to do in retail. So I think, you know, with all the struggles, there were also incredible benefits that we were able to to benefit from having had to struggle, you know, in the pandemic, like a lot of other brands. Throughout the struggles and sort of the growth that you were seeing in 2021, I'm sure you were still looking for capital and trying to raise capital. Always, right. Yeah, always. Allie looked just very exhausted. Oh, God.

47:17Yeah. No, I'm so energized. Yeah. No, I can imagine how hard it is in trying to convince people to give you money for, especially back then, an unproven concept. Regardless of how much TTC success you had, it just wasn't enough for most investors. Yeah. Were you trying to raise money for the business at the time? I mean, we raised a lot of money through Zoom, which I thought would never happen. We had gotten our first check in 2019 when Ali and I decided to join forces. We received a larger check from a VC in New York, very early stage industry agnostic VC that is still a huge believer in the brand.

47:55And so we had some capital to start off. And then we realized during the pandemic that we needed to raise more funding. And we weren't in a place where, you know, PO financing wasn't an option for us because we weren't in retail. So we started raising capital on Zoom and we raised money through that, mostly from angels, a lot of industry people that have invested in us, which is super exciting and also comes with a lot of great insights and support beyond the money. But yeah, that's I mean, you're out. We're out on the hall talking to peer brands, founder, friends that are out there. And it's just one, I think, I think like 80 percent of brands out there right now in our hot product section are probably raising money right now.

48:33And it's just not always a neat and tidy process either. Like it would be so nice if you raise once and this is how it goes. But, you know, that's in our experience and many, many people we talked to just doesn't seem that it's sort of almost like an always on strategy in a way for better or for worse. When you were having those Zoom calls, what really resonated with the investors about your pitch? I mean, the team, you know, I think at that stage, especially 2020, we were just around for a few months. So the team, the commitment that we were proving to what we were trying to build, I think investors said invest in that stage.

49:07They invest in the people more than the product. And they believe that you'll figure it out and you'll find a way to do that. So I think that was one piece. And then a lot of the food and beverage investors just really saw the vision for this ingredient, right? I think that is the risk is, oh, it's a novel ingredient that nobody knows in the States. But that is exactly the opportunity. And if you can see that the way we're seeing it, then you're just so excited because we're one of the first movers in the market here in the States bringing this ingredient or establishing a brand around it. And we believe there's going to be many more that are going to come in.

49:36And we've already seen that over the last three years. So I think those are the two key pieces. And that really makes us think about where are we going with this? Our idea is to build a Lupini Bean-based brand. You know, it's a play on in our brand name with Lupi, inspired by some of the brands like Oatly out there and those like that where you're owning an ingredient, but you've got some playfulness, double entendre meaning in the brand name. And we've really thought about where are we going to go? You know, a strategy you could take with a bar is let's go really deep from an innovation perspective.

50:07That's always a question in innovation, broader or deeper. And both are valid strategies. And we, you know, have thought about it and been very intentional. So you could, you know, obviously, and we will have more flavors with our bars, but you could do more flavors, shapes, assortments, pack sizes, filled bars. You know, the list is endless if you go sort of down a bar brand only strategy. But because we have this hero ingredient, we were really intentional in thinking about, as I sort of like to say, asserting ourselves and spreading our elbows a little bit wider and saying, how are we going to play the lupini bean across different day parts and occasions?

50:39and people really understand that this being can fit into their life and deliver great taste through different products with all these wonderful functional benefits. You know, our core consumer, we think of them as the nutrition seeker. So in that, it's like, we are both those people. We know so many people like this, lots of data to support it, but someone like, again, food is table stakes. There's so many amazing brands out there here at Expo West that we see, but how do we really bring something different with our functional benefits? And one thing that's a little bit different with our bars, but that we, you know, again, we iterate as we go.

51:09That's the beauty of startup life is one of the innovation guardrails that we now are going to define as we think about that pipeline is what are those trifecta benefits again, high protein, low carb, high fiber, and then thinking about what do consumers want? I think being consumer driven and consumer led is always so critical. What are categories where those trifecta benefits can really come and disrupt? So that is one of the drivers for moving into pasta next, thinking about categories. We might play across different aisles of the grocery store. That's not always easy, but it can be a great benefit to where you're really building a brand that is bigger.

51:43I mean, look at Simple Mills. That's a really inspirational brand that's done it really well. And then thinking also about what are retailers looking for too? That can be really practical in some ways, but retailers, they know their categories. They know their shoppers. And we heard from a lot of buyers that pasta is something that they're really looking at. What Chickpea's done amazing things for building up an alt pasta category that's functionally driven, great taste. But what else is out there? And we think we're bringing something new and different to the set. Yeah. You mentioned chickpeas.

52:13You mentioned oats with Oatly. And I've spoken with some investors who are wary of a single ingredient platform or a platform centered around a single ingredient. So that's that's the one thing that I guess that's one concern that some investors might have. What are some other things that were brought up that you've had to take into consideration that you didn't think was maybe an issue prior to speaking with a particular investor? It's a great question. I think that is probably a big one. I think people kind of fall into camps around that. And people are pretty candid and transparent. So when we have investor conversations, you know, you can sort of figure out quickly if it's something you can get behind.

52:52I really think also a lot of times at the end of the day, it comes back to the product itself. So if you have a great product, whether it's sort of the brand ethos and identity is built around the ingredient or it's sort of the brand is built around something else, if the product is great, I think that's something that we all hold on to at the end of the day. Other challenges from investors? I don't know if there's any singular sort of other thing. I'm trying to go back three years ago to when the judges for the pitch slam were pelting you with questions. And I think you answered them all quite well.

53:21And I think that's what really gave me a lot of belief in your brand and your company is that you are bringing sort of this professionalism and well thought plan to the table. Thank you. Whereas, you know, I think some people just don't have the answers and okay, they're still a year away from really being anything. Yeah. And, you know, no knock on founders, but sometimes you got to come with it from the gate. Yeah. From out of the gate, that is, you know, because if you don't, people forget about you really quickly. Totally. Yeah. That can be sometimes the flip side of it is like we do. I mean, listen, we have learned so much on this journey.

53:58It's a humbling, humbling experience. But we like to think we try to be very thoughtful, intentional, strategic. We adapt and are nimble all the time because things are thrown at you left and right. But, yeah, it can be sometimes an uphill battle. And, you know, you see sometimes your peers or other things that are happening. and the response, we get feedback. Sometimes you guys are really thoughtful about that, but it doesn't always get someone fully over the edge. But, you know, we're doing what Ken's showing up, building the brand every day. Well, it seems like you're quite thoughtful about your pastas.

54:24I'm holding in my hand the Muddy Lupini Bean Pasta. This is a penny variety made plantiful, plastic-free, 100 % plastic-free packaging. I love that. In the window. Yeah, 14 grams of plant-based protein per two-ounce serving, 17 grams of net carbs, and 12 grams of prebiotic fiber. This is fantastic stuff. So about 40 % of your daily fiber in a serving. Only four ingredients that I'm looking at right here, which is also really great. You know, I think the other really, it was pretty wise because, you know, going from a bar to a pasta is like really easy, right? I mean, like it's, that was my attempt at a joke.

54:59Obviously. Obviously. Same production line. Same packaging. What kind of podcast is this? Did you get it? No, I mean, obviously this was probably not the easiest thing. to do. Why was pasta number one? Why was pasta the right next product for Lupe? Why was it a brand extension that made sense? You touched on a lot of those things already. I mean, we looked at various different categories and for the reasons that Ali mentioned around seeing a lot of retail, inbound retail interest, we had conversations with buyers. What are the kind of categories you're looking at? What are the things that you're seeing?

55:32Some consumer conversations and then really thinking about this bean is super high protein, low carb. No other bean is. Where can we go where people want more protein and less carbs? So there are a few products kind of in the mix and in the running, but pasta just stood out as the biggest opportunity. And there has been, you know, Bons has done an incredible job at building this alternative pasta category. It's incredible what they've built, but most other alternative pastas are just another chickpea pasta, right? So we're really seeing that we're bringing innovation to the category that nobody else was able to deliver on yet.

56:07So. You're talking to a different buyer in the store. You're in a completely different part of the story as well. So I think that's got to present some challenges. Yeah. Ali, were you working in salty snacks prior to it? Yeah, I was working on the transformation innovation team at Pepsi on the global food side of the business. So I have to think there were some thoughts about creating a salty snack made out of lupini beans. There wasn't about lupini beans specifically at Pepsi. Well, not at Pepsi. No. Oh, yes. Sorry. I was like, one, I don't think I'd say that. Yeah, conglomerates don't really think that way.

56:40Yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked about it. A hundred percent. Yeah. And still, there's definitely thought about it, about where we go next. Again, we really like to think about this is foundational learning that I have learned through my larger CPG food days and agency days, but is being really consumer-led, like what are consumers looking for, making sure, you know, we kind of can coalesce around different short list of ideas and categories, but then talking to who's going to buy the product and what are they looking for from different categories. So, yeah, salty snacks. There's frozen stuff that can be on the table.

57:13Crackers are pretty interesting. And then you also look at size of opportunity, all of these things. So it's a matrix of decisions and variables that we'll consider as we think about the pipeline. But as you say, we've got two categories here that both of them independently could be very big. And so now we want to take those and grow them and be very thoughtful because it does. I mean, the challenge we also have, it's a huge opportunity, but also want to make sure we don't spread ourselves too thin. both people-wise, resource-wise, new buyers, different manufacturers, things like that. So we have to make sure we grow what we've got.

57:46Do you have a sense that your existing bar consumers would also be consumers of the pasta? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the pasta has been in market since September, October, so just a few months. What we've been seeing is from the retail perspective, even if it's separate buyers, it looks like it's helped us. the fact that we had the bars in a retailer and they've been doing well to open up the pasta as well as an option. So I think a lot of retailers believe in cross-category brand building if you're able to do that. And then in terms of like the proposition, you know, it's a simple ingredient deck for both product ranges.

58:20It's a consumer that's looking for high quality plant-based protein, relatively low carb. So there's definitely a lot of crossover. We do think that the pasta has the opportunity to be a mass market play faster, just because the set is starting to be just way more mainstream than maybe, you know, the protein bar set, which is very crowded. And also Lupini is still a novel kind of source of protein in that set versus alternative pasta. A lot of retailers are merging the alternative set with the regular set, which is really proving how it's becoming mainstream pretty rapidly. So we think that there is a real opportunity to tap into that pretty quickly.

58:57I think the one difference between say plant-based pastas and traditional ones is that you can get a half jar of tomato sauce and pour it over like grain-based pasta and call it a day. Whereas I think plant-based pasta has a different texture and taste profile where the dishes you're going to make are going to be different. Have you been working with any chefs or folks that, you know, can help you make this taste great? We're having a lot of conversations now. It's definitely work that we're actively doing right now. It's definitely ramping it up because that is something I think you talk about from just a content perspective, helping people understand and engage and really, you know, build around the community that we already have, help them think about how they can use this, put it into their diet.

59:43Also, again, like taste is king. So making recipes and having that be a big part of our content strategy is really important and part of our plans for this year. Well, among the plans for this year, and I've been talking to founders about this a lot, is demand forecasting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to figure out how much product you'll need, how much product you might sell if you open this door or that door. How's that going? Yeah. I mean. Better. I would say so. Yeah. But also we've been. Are you guys sure? Well, we've been landing a lot of accounts, quite frankly, with the pasta. So I feel like we're demand forecast updating all the time.

1:00:20We're launching in Sprouts in a few weeks, which is pretty exciting and major for us. So that will be the first large retailer taking the pasta and then just closed a few other accounts. You know, we're at Expo now. So we've had some really exciting conversations. So it's just really important for us to stay on top of that and just also have great relationships with our co-packers to make sure they are informed. They know what's happening so that we can just, you know, push go when we need to. Yeah. I think we're at that tricky stage that all companies will deal with, which is forecasting is so hard as you, you know, really ramp up distribution because you don't have historical data to rely on for your brand with what you're doing to support it.

1:00:55So, you know, it's expensive to make your products. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Don't want to over forecast. Don't want to under forecast. It's, you know, it's an art and a science. So we revisit our planning all the time. What's the velocity? What's the buildup? What's the bottoms up build that we think we'll need? and really thinking about, you know, lead times with co-packers and ingredients and all of all of the variables that you have to consider. But I think it also, you know, we get better and better at it. We have been in retailers with the bars now for over a year. So that helps also just inform us how this our brand today is doing.

1:01:26Yeah. In addition to taste and functional ingredients and branding, I think price has become clearly a very important factor in how people are considering trial and investing their money into new products, investing their money. Well, I mean, in some cases you really are. I mean, that's what it is. So pricing strategy. I mean, how are you thinking about creating a product with a competitive price point, at least for the set and channel that you're in without alienating some consumer who might be on a budget and a tighter budget than they had been the year prior? Yeah. I mean, I think, again, pricing is such an art and a science, right?

1:02:01Of really making sure with your price, you're communicating the added new value that you're bringing to both of the categories that we're now playing in. But as you say, not overpricing yourself so much, pricing at a premium tier where you're cutting your volume below what it needs to be to be competitive with the other players that you're up against at shelf. So we think we've reached a nice sweet spot with the bars. We're at a$2.99 MSRP and then pasta, we're going to put it a$5.99 MSRP. And like all things with this business, we are going to look at it, evaluate it, adjust it. I think one of the things we're just talking to an advisor last night and is, you know, there's some retailers where you'll go and they'll never let you take your price up again.

1:02:39So sometimes we think better to go in a little bit higher than maybe you will net out at because going down in price is a lot easier than trying to take your price up with both your retail partners and with your consumer. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good point. And, you know, even at a time when your ingredient costs are higher, your manufacturing costs are higher, you can't necessarily go from$4.99 to$5.99 without feeling it and the retailer probably getting angry at you. That's right. Just going back to growth strategy and trying to figure out the next stage of evolution for the brand, we briefly talked about this before we got on the mics.

1:03:14It seems like despite all the conversation around supporting women-led brands and the fact that there has been a lack of funding, a sustained lack of funding in women-led brands for over 25 years, we're going in the wrong direction. You know, it went from venture capital has gone into women-led brands. Only 2 % of venture capital has gone to women-led brands. That number has gone down to 1.9 % or even lower than that. How are you guys navigating, you know, funding as, you know, female founders? Yeah, I mean, we talked about that before we jumped on also. It's hard to talk about the topic because obviously, for one, we have incredible investors, a lot of male investors that believe in us, a lot of male advisors that are incredibly supportive.

1:03:56So we feel that. But at the same time, you know, you look at the numbers like you just outlined and the moment the economy is struggling, we're going back to kind of where we were before 2020 when we started seeing some progress on that front. So that is a reality that we're navigating. You know, we do have investor conversations where it feels being a woman is not advantageous for sure. But we're just trying to stay focused on, you know, building the business and finding the investors that don't care about our gender and believe in the business and the opportunity. Yeah, it's definitely that balance of like, you don't want to have a woe is me attitude that doesn't serve us at all.

1:04:32But also you have to keep your head up in the face of, you know, these real hard numbers that we're looking at, which are woefully far away from where they should be. So God, it's a complex topic and one that I hope, you know, people literally put their money where their mouth is. Yeah, I was speaking with an investor about this topic, and she's an investor in primarily female-led brands. And one of the things she'd mentioned that I thought was pretty interesting is that while private equity and venture capital firms may say, you know, they would love to invest in a women-led brand, they come across as being anything but that.

1:05:09Their websites, their sort of, the way they present themselves feels very antithetical to a firm that would invest in female-led brands. You guys see that? I mean, is that? Yeah. Sure. I mean, we talked about that yesterday. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we definitely see that.

1:05:53of Loopy, but it definitely does sometimes feel a bit that way. That felt like it resonated somewhat. But as Isabel said, there are many male champions in our lives. I've started my career in beer, which was a very male-dominated, incredible experience and training ground with incredible mentors who supported me personally and definitely women in general. So we look for the supporters and hope people really, whether it's VC firms, angels, are, again, putting their money where their mouth is thinking about how they can counteract some of the biases that we just know exist out there today because they do.

1:06:29And that's showing up in the funding numbers that we're seeing. And seeing great founders, great brands. Yeah. I'm talking to two of them right now. So this has been fantastic. And we've been talking about doing this for a while. And I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to do this. I'm really excited for the future of Loopy and hopefully we can reconnect soon. Yes. So we can talk about the next stage of evolution and what you guys are doing until then. And really appreciate the time and good luck with the rest of the show. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for having us.

1:06:58That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNet.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cratchy. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt. And our video editor is Ryan Galang. Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smirlinski. And our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram.

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