Starbucks, Sriracha & Space Are Trending. We Have Questions.

0:10Hello friends and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food and beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. John Craven, the founder and CEO of BevNet, is on one of his several trips to San Diego throughout the year. I believe this is your first. Yes? Thanks for keeping track, Ray. I mean, I have to. He's got a spreadsheet. It's when we have parties in the office is when you're not here. Oh, man. Don't tell. Nice work, Ray. Sorry.

0:48Anywho, I hope they're treating you well. I hope they're taking good care of you out there. Yeah, generally. It's nice and sunny and rainy and all that stuff out here. Yeah, we had like a tornado warning yesterday morning as soon as Craven was landing. Oh, boy. So you've got full wrath of God stuff happening out there right now. I saw, did you see the reel of the person just straight hydro? It's not raining that hard, but someone just hydroplanes on the highway and the SUV just Was that in LA or was that in San Diego? I think it was in, it might've been LA. Yeah, LA's having some serious problems.

1:20But yeah, hopefully you guys will be out of this weather cycle pretty soon. Yeah. But John, you were at the Naturally San Diego event last night. I believe it was a community gathering. Jackie was there too. Jackie, you were there too. Yes, I was. And Landis too. Don't forget that. Oh, okay. I didn't, I'm sorry. I was only, I only follow John on Instagram. So that's, that's probably why. I don't think I Instagrammed anything from it. I forgot to. No, I'm the one that Instagrammed. You did? I forgot. Okay, man, I'm all over the place. Wow. I follow both of your accounts, Jackie. I saw Jackie Instagramming.

1:53Okay. Yes. Well, anyway, how was the event? It was delightful. Yeah, it was great. It was at Anime, which is a restaurant owned by Brian Malarkey, who is the founder of Chef's Life. Who is animated. He's very animated, yes. He was there standing on the counter. Yeah. And then cooking up some scallops with his chef's life oils. But it was really cool. It was great community gathering in preparation for the UNFI show today. It's awesome to see the San Diego community growing. The place was packed. And lots of people from LA too. Yes. I assume they were bouncing ideas off each other, trying to figure out what to say to the UNFI reps in hopes of getting a deeper relationship, a better relationship with those folks.

2:36Yeah. Lots of conversations about, you know, what they're doing, what they're preparing to do. I mean, also these shows are a little bit more intimate. They have a focused goal rather than say like Expo West where there could be anyone stopping by the booth. So definitely focus more on just their retail pitch. The Naturally San Diego branch is pretty fantastic. The Naturally Network is an amazing way for folks in the food and beverage community to meet, network, again, bounce ideas off each other. But the San Diego branch in particular, I mean, it was just amazing how well they put on their events and stay in touch with each other and just make sure that, you know, they're helping people as much as they possibly can at the community at large.

3:21But if you're not involved in that chapter and you're part of the San Diego community, San Diego area, you should definitely check it out. You're missing out. You're missing out. Yeah. And tonight we're heading to Startup CPG meetup as well. So a lot of activity in the San Diego market this week. Nice. Nice. Where is Irwindale, California in relation to San Diego? Does anyone know? Never heard of it, actually. Because Irwindale, California is where Hoifeng Foods is headquartered. Did I pronounce that correctly, Mike? I don't know. I just, Hoifeng Foods makes one of the greatest products in the history of products.

3:57Yes. So Hoifeng Foods is the OG sriracha sauce. I mean, anyone who has had sriracha in their life has probably had Hoifeng Foods. There's other varieties out there, but Hoifeng is the best known one. It has that rooster on a front of pack. It's got a whole bunch of copy in white letters. I mean, it's a clear bottle with a green cap. But yeah, I mean, if you saw this, you would know what it is. However, Hoifeng Foods was part of some controversy or has been part of some controversy in recent years because people think that the formulation has changed. So in an article on thetakeout.com, which is quickly becoming one of my favorite websites, thetakeout.com is owned by Geo Media, which also owns Deadspin and AV Club and sites like that.

4:47AV Club, one of my favorites. AV Club is fantastic. So as this story explains, back in July 2020, Hoi Fung sent shockwaves to the market by warning the public that in the midst of COVID-related supply issues, a sriracha shortage was looming. So then they got into, I guess, a bit of a tiff with their chili pepper supplier, which is Underwood Ranches. There's a whole lawsuit and so on and so forth. Yeah, they're famous for it. That's the only place that they source their peppers from. Well, not anymore. So through this lawsuit or after this lawsuit, they decided to break up this relationship and Hoifeng had to find a new supplier for peppers.

5:25Well, there is your change in formulation right there. But is it? So people are claiming that it tastes different. Now, I haven't had sriracha in a bit, but the rumor, I guess, or what's out there, is that it doesn't taste as spicy as it used to. So I have some spoons here. I'm sorry, John. I waited until you were not here. You're just going to do a shot of sriracha? Yeah. But I'm going to... I'm not sorry that I'm not there. You don't like sriracha? I don't know. I'm just having it straight from the bottle is kind of... Yeah. If it's not spicy, I don't want it. I don't know. I feel like it's spicier, honestly.

5:59Really? And again, I haven't had sriracha in a while, but that was really spicy. Darren lies the problem with the taste test. Why is that? You got to get a bottle, like an OG bottle, and compare side by side. I totally disagree with Ray. It's a little less spicy. Like, you can't just garbage mouth that stuff. And I feel like I could just go, here I will. Okay, go ahead. Also, you owe me$5. Also, side note. Oh, Jesus. That is kind of gross. Yeah, I could do that all day. If you haven't seen the now decade old Sriracha documentary, highly recommend watching it. It's, I think, only like 40 minutes or something, but really interesting backstory that will help this, give some context to this conversation here.

6:44If you're a product person, that is the documentary to watch. And everyone who listens is a product person. If you haven't seen that documentary, John's absolutely right. they talk about the simplicity of making the product they talk about the stages of products that they're making and how it's basically one you know it's one batch that they start with and then they and then everything is additive to get to the different i think it's four different products that they make well uh they're gonna have to make some adjustments to that documentary because apparently it's just not i don't think they're gonna adjust the documentary but you're right yeah they're gonna go back in time no but i mean the reason we couldn't do a side-by-side test is because this has an expiration date and so you know if we had one from 2020 it wouldn't taste like it should in the first place so hence this is what we have it's still spicy but it's slightly less spicy yeah this article from the takeout recommends roland you know roland that like multinational condiment supplier r-o-l-a-n-d i think they also make like sardines and stuff yeah they pointed out that roland's was much spicier than this that's gonna take more than a pepper change to get me to stop eating sriracha.

7:47That stuff's amazing. Well, hopefully the millennials approve because the millennials are the ones that are crazy, crazy about sriracha. Right, Jackie? Yeah, I love sriracha. I mean, I think someone compared it to like the Heinz of ketchup, which it completely is. Like you expect it to be on tables ready to go wherever you go. Exactly. Now, John has been chomping at the bit. He's got his Bird Rock coffee. That's Bird Rock What is that? Someplace that I will not name because it's not very good. Okay. Sorry to hear that. Next time, Bird Rock. Why is it still on the table? No, I was kind of like I walked in the place.

8:24I got the coffee. I was like, this is not good. And then I was like, is Mike back there? Who's slinging the lattes? Wow. Burn. I got left behind. I thought about going to Bird Rock. And I did. If you saw my Instagram for my flight out here, I brought in a Bird Rock Cometeer that I had at home. And I was like the weirdo. I was like, can I just have a cup of hot water? They were like, what are you doing? John's heading to San Diego. He's like heading to the Bon Jovi concert, wearing the Bon Jovi t-shirt. He's taking the San Diego coffee on the plane. I was bringing it back to San Diego.

9:06All right. Well, to go with your coffee, your subpar coffee, John, you have a very delightful snack that is unlike many snacks that we've ever seen. Unlike any snack we've ever seen. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, this is, I guess, a now half-eaten bag of Cho's Choco Nachos, which is a limited edition chocolate product. I guess technically it's made with cocoa butter, not kind of standard chocolate that you would think of, but it basically tastes like you're biting into some nacho cheese. So I think we need to have a sample here Yeah, let's do it I don't know if I love this But anyway You gotta try this Cho is TCHO It's a plant-based chocolate company Based in Berkeley, California Plant-based natural chocolate See, Jackie's going back for another one here Yes The hype here, Ray, is you won't know If it's the best thing you've ever had or the worst Okay But Ray, you don't like cheese, though, right?

9:59I'm not a huge cheese So Let's see here It might not be for you It's vegan, though It's not real cheese Okay, fine Oh! Yeah, just the aroma is not for me. Did you taste it? It's just, it's not for me. It's just, it's too weird. I don't particularly love when there are just colliding flavors and smells and things that you don't expect them to gain. Jackie, did you ever taste Play-Doh as a kid? Because I did. I did, yeah. It has a little bit of consistency. It does a little bit, except it has like the crumbs in it because it has, what is it, like the tacos or the tortilla chips in there? My table was always pretty dirty, so my Play-Doh had crumbs in it too.

10:42This is kind of like Spaceman ice cream, but they did it with nachos. Yeah. It's so weird. According to the press release, this is the result of years of dedication and experimentation led by chief chocolate maker Brad Kinzer, who we interviewed on Taste Radio a couple of years back, I want to say. And these are available through Cho's online store, All Supplies Last. I mean, I have a ton of respect for Cho. I mean, they made that huge move that, I guess it would say earth shattering within the chocolate community move to go a hundred percent plant-based. I believe that was also two years ago.

11:20And it talks about why it is the right thing to do from a sustainability standpoint. And also just to prove that they can produce a delicious chocolate without using animal products in it. So kudos to Cho. And even though this is not my necessarily favorite product of theirs, it's really interesting. Yeah, I mean, it definitely shows, you know, it's a nice sort of flex in terms of their skill and creativity. And I think it's really like outside the box, but also really well done. I mean, I think it's very smart that this is only, I think, bag, what does it say,$495 of$500 that they made. So they're not rolling this out in Walmart or something like that.

12:03Oh, wow. Okay. It's definitely a conversation piece. It is. It's something you put on your coffee table. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. On your coffee table. It might stay there for a while, depending on who comes over. But speaking of plant-based flexes. Okay. The founders of Jolly Moss, somehow we found each other on Instagram. And Jolly Moss makes a sea moss chocolate pudding dietary supplement. We had the fortune of them finding us, us finding them. They've been listening to Taste Radio. and they asked if we'd, you know, give their sea moss pudding a try. Jolly Moss sea moss pudding. You ready?

12:38Yeah, it's interesting because it's on the front of pack. It's described as a dietary supplement. It is. Yeah, that is interesting. How does it taste? Is it good? It's so tasty. Yeah, it's great. Can you hold a spoonful up so we can see the consistency? Yep. It's lighter and airier than a thick and sort of more indulgent chocolate pudding. it's lighter airier but it leaves you with the essence of indulgence too it says you should have two to three tablespoons daily they warn me that it's highly perishable you have to you can refrigerate it for up to three weeks avoid double dipping to prolong shelf life which we did not do no double dipping geez yeah yeah someone that um eats sea moss gel pretty regularly it's cool to see that there's like some innovation and flavor and creating something that's tasty because so far what I've seen is just the gel with maybe a little bit of flavoring and then it's just like kind of goop but it's nice that this is something that you could actually eat regularly and enjoy the experience 18 calories for two tablespoons it's sea moss wild harvested sea moss purified water cacao agave nectar vanilla dehydrated oat milk mct oil and that's it and some of the ingredients are organic do we have a price Mike was looking for a label that had the price on it Sea moss gel has been expensive since it's hard to source.

14:02And we'll report back later. It's interesting. Yeah. It has a supplement. Does it come from sea monkeys? It has a supplement facts panel on it. They're the harvesters. Sea monkeys harvest sea moss. So as much as this is described as a pudding, I almost feel like the pudding, the chocolate pudding is a flavor of the sea moss or for the sea moss product, which again is described as a supplement and not necessarily a food. I mean, I knew what to do with it when they said it was pudding. I knew that we were just going to have tablespoons of it. So that was good. Yeah, well, definitely has the consistency.

14:35On the internet here, I can't find this product quickly, but it looks like a jar. This, a jar of CMOS gel is about 40 bucks. Oh, so. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you, Jolly Moss. To the folks from Jolly Moss. Now, to wash all this down, which we need something to wash all this down, I have a can of Nitro Hot Cinnamon Spice Black Tea, which is a product from Harney & Sons. Harney & Sons is a New York-based maker of loose leaf bagged tea and RTD, ready-to-drink teas. And I got this at my family's shop in Connecticut. If you want to know more, email me. and I know I remember they they did a nitro tea a few years back but I hadn't seen it on the market in a while and so when I saw this in the cooler I grabbed it as quickly as I could nitro hot cinnamon spice black tea would you like some Mike yes okay there you go it comes in this black can this matte black can 11 ounces smells like red hot yeah and it's got this um it's really it's really good.

15:43I like the nose. Dragon and almost English royalty kind of imagery on the front of pack. And it has the essence of Red Hots too, the candy. Yeah, it's much lighter than I would expect. Super light. A little bit heavier. It's zero calories, which is fantastic, and zero grams of sugar. The ingredients are a brewed infusion of water, black tea, orange peel, natural cinnamon flavor, cinnamon, cloves, absorberic acid, citric acid, sodium citrate. It's like a jawbreaker, which by the nature of the name, I know is not your favorite candy. No, I don't like to break my jaw. But like after you eat a jawbreaker, this is the flavor that's left.

16:22Nice. It's really good. It is tasty. All right. Before we go any further, I want to thank our presenting sponsor for this episode of Taste Radio. That sponsor is Cognizant. Cognizant is a clinically tested nootropic ingredient that delivers a patented form of acetylcholine to supply your brain and those of your consumers with the energy it needs to stay sharp. Learn more at cognizant.com. That's C-O-G-N-I-Z-I-N.com. All right, while we're digesting, I got to talk about another story that's been out there in the news. And I'm curious as to your thoughts on it. You're being the host of Taste Radio.

17:05And I want to frame this as our new segment relatively new 2024 segment called buy or sell. Now, I'm sure you all heard that Starbucks has introduced olive oil into their coffees. They have a new line of products called Oleato. And the origin story, according to Starbucks, began in Sicily when Starbucks founder Howard Schultz was introduced to the Mediterranean custom of having a spoonful of olive oil. As he sipped his morning coffee, he was inspired to try the two together. There he unlocked the unexpected coffee enhanced with lush, velvety flavor that lingles beautifully on the palate. I don't know if I've seen a single person buy this product at Starbucks.

17:47I'm sorry to say, but I don't know. I like olive oil. I like coffee. Do the two make any sense together? I'm not sure. Buy or sell, Jackie? I'm selling. I don't know. Again, I don't think there's a need for this. I think people are going to be confused by it. also even when you're making it like there's probably going to be separation what does that look like at the store i don't know it doesn't make sense like just why so this this came out i think a year ago and it did come out a year ago this is the like rollout to all starbucks right so i just want to read you this headline here from the uh bbc who's covering this that says starbucks new olive oil infused coffee has customers complaining of laxative side effects Oh, geez.

18:33Oh, no. So. Apparently it's an explosive release. Jeez. That's not good. Yeah. Well, on that information alone, I think it's a sell. But I just, and I want to, you know, give some context here. I mean, I think I appreciate that Starbucks does innovative things. They're trying to push the envelope. They're trying to be the leader when it comes to coffee innovation. I think this is a bit of a stretch for customers. I think this is something that a few customers would appreciate, but it should be more of a limited time offering than sort of a nationwide or global rollout. It's again, I mean, if you look at the Cho nachos, right, and that's not something they're going to roll out to every Cho retailer in the country.

19:19I think it has an interesting education challenge. And, you know, Starbucks has obviously introduced other products that like I still don't know what the hell cold foam is. Right. But that obviously is something that people buy. It's called foam. Yeah, but where does it come from? Like, I don't understand. It's like a movie The Stuff. Yeah, I mean, but in any event, this seems kind of like it has a different challenge of explaining it to consumers why you need that ingredient in your coffee. And I was kind of curious if there's a functional benefit, you know, like bulletproof coffee. We just heard the functional benefit.

19:59Yeah. Extra laxative. Oh boy. You know, but like the reason why people do take a tablespoon of olive oil in the morning is for functionality. You know, it's the healthy fats. So if you're combining the two, like, are you trying to have that functional benefit? Well, I don't know yet, but Amanda Huang and I tried this right before the show. So we made oleatos or whatever you're there. Oleates. Olive oil lattes. We made them upstairs. Okay. And it's weird. I mean, first of all, we made them with Oatly Super Basic, which is a new oat milk that I think is a game changer. It's four ingredients. It's insanely good.

20:43It tastes as milky as anything we've had yet. And it holds up really well in a latte. There is separation, but initially it looks beautiful when you pour it in froths and all that stuff. So we were told that you're supposed to use oat milk. So we used oat milk. We put the olive oil in and we frothed the milk, made the latte, tasted it. It's weird. It's not bad, first of all. It doesn't taste bad at all. It's pretty good. But again, I just don't understand why with the warning label that's on it, you'd want that. Because coffee in the first place already does that. Well, Starbucks also has a reputation of being a pretty expensive coffee retailer.

21:24Yeah. So what are they going to charge for olive oil? So a 16-ounce grande is about$6, according to a story I'm seeing on Business Insider. So, yeah, I mean, it just seems a little more limited edition, limited interest, limited demand than I would think. But, I mean, they had the initial rollout last year, and now they're rolling it out to all U.S. Starbucks stores and some international stores as well. So people are going to want to try it. They're going to want to know what it tastes like, and then we'll see if it's... But there's try, and then there's repeat purchase. Right, exactly. I don't see it holding on.

21:56I think it's a thing to get people to come into the store. You're selling. I sell. It's a marketing stunt. Well, I don't know if I'd call it a marketing stunt. Fireball flavored lipstick is a marketing stunt. I'll give it to you. It's an expensive marketing stunt. Okay. If they're rolling it out nationally. Yeah. Okay. Well, anyway. But at the end of the day, all it is is, okay, we've got to ship some olive oil to all of our Starbucks. Yes. teach somebody how to put it into the milk. Because that's where we frothed it and that's what we were told to do. The real question is, will Jeff Hansberry, who is the CEO of Partana, which is the supplier of the olive oil to Starbucks stores, and the former CEO of Evolution Fresh, which was owned by Starbucks a couple of years ago until he offloaded the company.

22:46And we've had Jeff Hansberry on stage at BevNet Live. Will, he still speak to me after this conversation because I'm in conversations with the Partana team to sit down with Jeff and he's going to hear this and be like, hey, Ray, go blank yourself. So we're not the first, we're not the first ones to question whether this is a good idea. Also, any PR is good PR. I'm sure he's like, I don't think he's happy hearing that this is going to cause explosive issues. We didn't say that. We didn't say it. The BBC did. I mean, what do you think cold foam does to your insides? I don't know. But you know what they say?

23:24Or just coffee in general. Have you ever heard the phrase, kill the messenger? I'll get you. We were the messenger in this case. Just tell them, just blame me. Okay. I will blame you, Mike. Thank you. All right. I mentioned Fireball. Fireball came out. This is definitely a marketing stunt. Sazerac, which is the maker of Fireball whiskey. We've talked about Fireball in the past. Cinnamon flavored whiskey. They released earlier this week, their first ever custom lipstick called Cinnamon Delight. it's a game day accessory they call it a game day accessory game day they're talking about the super bowl inspired by the world's hottest couple aka trailer travis kelsey and taylor swift you ever heard trailer before i don't like it no okay it's on sale now for 1387 i believe our colleague nosh managing editor monica watfos bought some of this so uh we'll have to ask her about her experience with some fireball she's got ranch and fireball now yes it's all about the ranch and the fireball all right speaking of the super bowl buy or sell 2.5 million dollars will get you a suite at the super bowl and all the kinds of things and all kinds of food you could eat you get a souvenir popcorn waiting by the door you can get a bacon wrapped hot dog a barbecue burnt and burrito glazed donut super bowl sundae carne asada fries seafood stuffed potato these i'm watching this on instagram it looks terrible surf and turf nachos wagyu beef hot dog okay that's the first decent thing i see there and a frozen cheesecake you know this is insane and there's a full service bar john this this is insane i would think okay you can probably invite into this sweet 25 30 maybe even 50 people yeah but as a souvenir popcorn is popcorn served in a souvenir super bowl container the kind of thing that you would expect in terms of food You got to have like caviar and like champagne, two bottles per person, you know, two containers or two tins of caviar per person.

25:25This is crazy. I'm definitely selling it for two reasons. One is it's not at the Emirates with the team red and white. And two is that I get 2.5 million bucks. Somebody who really wants this can have it. I don't know. It's just driving me crazy. It's just like this is bowling alley food. That's crazy. I don't think it's a question. i mean i watched the video it looks like trash i mean this this is one of those like you know they don't need to put the price out there because whoever is buying this does not care about the price yeah they're probably doing it for the sweet over then the food like just to bring all their friends or or just to get morons like us to talk about it yeah no 100 you get 100 you get you you get the sweet you get the experience watching this roll it's all fun and games but like you gotta have you gotta have better food than this this is ridiculous i mean That's a Wagyu hot dog.

26:13Like a sushi guy or something? No. Like, what do you want? There was no sushi. The biggest thing, the first thing they led with was the souvenir popcorn. I'm getting angry now. I mean, devil's advocate here. Where is the Super Bowl again? Las Vegas. Vegas, bro. SoFi Stadium's stadium food is, it's a cut above a lot of stadium food that I've had. The seafood stuffed potato looks like vomit. Sorry, I'm losing it. I'm losing it. All right. On to more important things. Looks like food created by some AI. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't tempt me. All right. Ceviche Master's coming back. Oh, yeah. Yes.

26:53So a couple of years ago, on to our next buy or sell. A couple of years ago, Coca-Cola introduced you. We're just getting warmed up here. I love it. It's Sean's greatest invention, Ceviche Master. Coca-Cola introduced. Ask him about it. A new limited edition flavor called Starlight. and it was described as a space-inspired Coca-Cola product that is supposed to recreate the taste and feel of space. However, a lot of people didn't figure out. How do you know what space tastes like? Well, that's the beauty. You're not going to know. They can give you anything. This is what space is like. This is like that Coca-Cola Starlight when they were telling you, oh, it tastes like...

27:28That's what we're talking about. Yeah, exactly. So apparently, some people called it, it tastes a little like minty cotton candy sprinkled with vanilla and it has a red tint to it. Anyway, I think Brad, our colleague Brad Avery, our senior reporter for BevNet, bought a bottle and he said it was okay. It was weird. It was weird. It was only on the market for like a few months. It wasn't that shocking. It was kind of like a little bit of cotton candy and a Coke. Yeah. Well, apparently people still love space-inspired foods or are still interested in space-inspired foods because Oreo, Oreo Cookies, launched a new product called Space Dunks.

28:04It's a limited edition product. that according to the press release is a galaxy-inspired limited edition cookie and a chance for a fan to join the brand on an expedition where no Oreo cookie lover has gone before to the edge of space. Each cookie is stuffed with layers of blue and pink quote-unquote cosmic cream with marshmallow-y flavor and popping candies that create a supernova bursting sensation with each bite. Man, that is some good marketing copy right there. They tried to read it like this, though. The Edge of Space! That was pretty good. I think that's how they wrote it. Okay. Now, I'm going to open this up.

28:45I'm sorry. Once again, John, you can't have it. We'll save some for you. Would you even eat this? This is like, you won't touch cheese. I'm not touching weird cookies with like five million ingredients and like pop rocks in the middle. Okay. But can I ask you about this whole space thing? Is this a millennial thing? I mean, are you buying that like people are interested in space, dunk, junk, starlight stuff? Yeah, Jackie. I don't know. I think there's like this weird buzz with space right now and like the commercialization of space and people are, you know, super wealthy people are just trying to go and like take a little tour.

29:17So it's like glorifying this. I don't know if it's going to be like a flash in the pan or something to stay. I'm selling on this. I'm also not going to drink Mountain Dew after I eat the space dust here or the Pop Rocks or whatever. Do you explode then? Well, I mean, Lesser Evil, the maker of Better For You and organic snacks, they have a line of cheese balls they call space balls. These are the alternative to, I don't know, well, cheese balls. And I had some the other day and they're made with plant-based cheese. They're really tasty. They're lighter and fluffier. I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what the draw is, like what the interest is among consumers or at least younger consumers for space-inspired foods.