The Big Opportunity In Overlooked Categories

0:00Getting consumers to trial a beverage is easy, but how do you keep them around? Flavor makes it happen. At Virginia Dare, we build flavor systems from the ground up, with clean label, natural options, all while making the harshest functional ingredients taste delicious. And we specialize in sweet flavors, like a rainbow sherbet prebiotic soda or a matcha latte flavored protein shake. Learn more at virginiadare.com.

0:37Hello, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and it was my co-host for this episode, John Craven and Mike Schneider. Shelf-stable meal kits aren't exactly the most exciting corner of the grocery aisle. But that could be changing. This week, Riff, the new shelf-stable meal kit brand from Sir Kensington co-founder Mark Ramadan and 11 Madison Park chef Daniel Hum, made its nationwide debut at Target, bringing a chef-driven approach to a category that has largely sat on the sidelines of food innovation.

1:18We dig into what Riff is aiming to do differently, then turn our attention to Battle Bars, which is leaning into the era of peak protein with a major rebrand that includes new packaging and reformulated bars with more protein, more fiber, and fewer calories. We also recap our recent Taste Radio meetup in San Diego and review all phenoms. It's good to be here in San Diego at the San Diego office here with John Craven, as I mentioned, and Mike Schneider, as I also mentioned. We're also in the studio with the one and only Ryan Galang, whose role in the company is officially video editor. But he does so much more than that.

2:00He makes us happy, which I think is probably the most important role you can have in a company. He's very convivial, gregarious, fun, but he doesn't talk a lot. Yeah, but if you get him talking, he's one of the most interesting people you could ever talk to. Yes, he is. I feel like you need someone like that in the company who, once you get him in a room, he'll talk to you. But, like, outside of the room, sort of in a group, he's less involved. Yeah, he's a curious guy who's got a lot of interesting experiences. Definitely talk to Ryan at our events. Now everyone in our audience knows Ryan. But be careful, though, because he's probably going to be taking photos of you.

2:38So you come up to him and talk to him, the video's going to get really interesting. He did take a lot of videos and a lot of photos yesterday for our Taste Radio San Diego meetup, which was fantastic. We saw so many people from this area and beyond. And it was so great to catch up with founders and operators that we know and ones that are relatively new to us. I felt like, as usual, I met with entrepreneurs who are building really interesting brands, innovative products. and that's a big part of the reason why we do these meetups is to engage with the community and figure out what's going on on the ground in the communities that we interact with.

3:19I don't know. It's always awesome to see people come out, especially those who, you know, listen to this podcast every week and have nice things to say, as you always wonder. But, you know, I think it's just great when you get CPG people together and they can share their, you know, war stories and kick around, you know, whatever new ideas they're thinking about, get feedback on their products. And, you know, I think people generally leave with a smile on their face and energized, which is great, as do I, so. As I mentioned during the meetup yesterday, BevNet CPG Media is not simply a content organization.

3:49Yes, we have websites with daily content. Yes, we have a magazine. Yes, we have live events with stage content that is relevant to anyone building a food or beverage brand. But I feel like BevNet CPG Media is also a key part of the ecosystem in that we're helping brands grow. We want to help see your brand become successful and scale. And the way we do that is through great insights, advice, and connections in the industry. One of the things I was most proud of yesterday was having Maddie Serviente join us as a speaker. Maddie Serviente is a partner with the Angel Group, which is a network of 400 or so angel investors that work together to fund emerging businesses in food and beverage.

4:34And it was great because before we had our interview session, she was interacting and engaging with so many folks at the event. And we talked on stage about what the Angel Group is looking for in terms of early stage brands and investable brands. And she was so kind. And the whole team, Adam Spriggs, Chris Robb, everyone involved in the Angel Group, they want to talk to you. So this is exactly what I'm talking about. Every single time you and I, Mike, or you and I, John, go to an event, they're like, do you know any investors? Yes, we do. And again, this is part of our job is to make those kinds of connections and help you and your brands grow.

5:11Yeah, you didn't use the word community, Ray, when you were explaining BevNet CPG Media. And I think it's an important part of what we do on a daily basis, making those introductions. It's meaningful for us. It's a lot of fun. I introduced a brand to Maddie yesterday that she knew because they only exchanged samples, but they didn't know each other, you know, person to person yet. So that was really cool. So if you want the full story in the Angel Group, you can do a couple of different things. One, you can go back and listen to my interview with Adam Spriggs, who's one of the founders of the Angel Group.

5:41It was titled, or the episode is titled, They Invested in Poppy, Now They Want to Invest in You. There's also a great conversation between our colleague, Mollissa Traverse and Chris Robb. That's on Nombase, on the Nombase podcast. And of course, we'd love for you to tune in to the episode that will feature with my interview with Matty Serviente, along with Chuck Cassano. Chuck Cassano is the founder of Pattaya Foods and also one of the co-founders of High Touch Libations, which is a DSD distribution company that works with brands in Southern California and also in other parts of the Southwest, including Arizona.

6:16Chuck, who I've known for 15 years, I think, John, you've known him for even longer than that, just a great dude and someone who is also really plugged in to our industry and is paying as much as he can forward based on the experience he has as a distributor and a founder. I stand corrected, listener. You have homework. Yeah. You have homework. We should post those on Instagram so it's easy for people to find. Okay, that sounds good. Let's do it. Let's get right on that. I'm on it. I'm on it. You know where else you're going to find a lot of connections, a lot of insights, advice? BevNet Live?

6:47BevNet Live. BevNet Live. I got it right. You know where else? Nosh Live? Nosh Live. Brewbound Live? Brewbound Live, yes. So this December in LA, NOSH Live, December 3rd and 4th. BevNet Live is happening on December 6th through 8th. And BrewBound Live is happening on December 9th and 10th. As I mentioned during the meetup yesterday, these events, the LA events, are like the meetups but on steroids. So while we have over 100, 150 people at our meetups, you'll have and have the opportunity to engage with a lot more than that. A lot more people who are investors, who are founders, who are distributors, who are retail buyers, and they are all coming to Nosh Live, BevNet Live, and BrewBound Live.

7:28So you should be there, obviously. Head to BevNet.com slash events to learn more and register. Hey, listeners. This September 10th roundup brings jobs at CPGjobs.com from Barrel RM, Revolution Brewing LLC, and Good to Grow. Harkin Sweets, Russian River Brewing Company, and Trade Turbine keep it rolling. Check opportunities and apply today. Need great people? Put your opening before category pros following the industry. Reach operators, sales leaders, supply chain pros, and retail buyers spending more time with candidates and less on mismatches. At cpgjobs.com, post your opening. Use code TASTERADIO26 and save on the listing.

8:16More than 70 % of new CPG products fail, often over margins founders never fully understood. Outsourced accounting can close that gap for good. Visit belaysolutions.com slash BevNet for a free small business accounting guide from Belay. If you're running an emerging brand and could use a little help getting products made, distributed into retail and beyond, stick around for our bonus interview at the end of this episode. I sit down with Jordan Radke and Dan Abel, the co-founders of Pilot Project Brewing, to talk about how they've built a one-stop shop that helps beverage brands get their products to market and grow.

8:57Your inbox should reflect the parts of CPG that matter to you. Choose from BevNet's seven free newsletters covering beverage, food, beer, spirits, careers, education, and more. Sign up and select your favorites at cpgmedia.com slash newsletter. I would love to see Mark Ramadan and Daniel Hum at Nosh Live. So if you don't know, Mark... Can Daniel Hum do the catering? I would love for Daniel Hum. That would be amazing. So Daniel Hum is the founder and chef, I guess the head chef, of Eleven Madison Park. If you don't know, Eleven Madison Park is one of the most revered restaurants in the world. Three-star Michelin restaurant.

9:41And Mark Ramadan is a very successful CPG founder as the co-founder of Sir Kensington's and also a former CEO of Hugh Kitchen. They have collaborated on a new brand called Riff. And Riff is a brand of meal kits. They are shelf stable and they debuted this week at Target stores nationwide. This according to a story penned by our very own Adrian DeLuca. And I love this. I love this a lot because these are shelf-stable meal kits where apparently all you need to do is mix a few things together and you have a better-for-you, delicious meal within 30 minutes. According to the article, Riff aims to compete with conventional brands like Hamburger Helper or Rice-A-Roni and capture white space via consumers seeking an easy, elevated meal to keep on hand.

10:36Keep on hand in your pantry. We've talked about this concept many times on Taste Radio, which is that consumers are looking for elevated versions of products and brands that they're already familiar with, a la a Hamburger Help or a Rice-Doroni. But where is the innovation coming from? It's coming from entrepreneurs like a Mark Ramadan, like a Daniel Hum. The key question, of course, in all this is, does it taste good? The branding looks fantastic. It definitely looks in line with what modern CPG packaging looks like. If you want to find out about that packaging or see what the packaging looks like, head to that article on nosh.com.

11:12But the products come in a spicy tomato rigatoni, garlic lemon rotini, sesame ginger noodles, coconut curry noodles, and creamy parmesan cavatepe. They're$6.99 per box. It's a two-serving kit per box. So really interesting stuff. I really want to try this. You know, I mentioned taste. You would assume with a guy like Daniel Hum, these products are going to taste amazing, but you never know. You never know. Yeah. I mean, definitely will try it. Would you prefer a shelf-stable kit over a refrigerated or frozen one? I'm not totally sure I'm the target market for these, but. Oh, I see. Because you make your own food at home from scratch.

11:49Yeah, shocking. Grow my own vegetable. No, I don't know. I mean, I think just the target demographic for this feels like, as you said, replacing, you know, trying to get someone to upgrade from a Chef Boyardee or something like that, you know. But I think, you know, it looks super awesome. I mean, I think the branding, it's got like a established feel to it, you know, like, I don't know, makes me think of Jif partially because of the name. Jif, it's got like this throwback sort of 60s vibe to it, the branding. It almost looks like a cereal, like an old school cereal, like life cereal from back in the day.

12:23A hundred percent, which I think is really cool that they're not just trying to do what everyone else is doing. Again, you look at a brand like a Goudles, right? Yep. Which has a very modern aesthetic to it. This, I think, is a nice maybe cut through the noise sort of approach. The box for me looks just, if you see it really fast, almost like a soup. Maybe because there's a bowl on the front? Yeah. Yeah, so each box comes with, quote, a restaurant-quality pasta or noodle, seasoning packet, and a crunchy topping. And I assume you, you know, as most people eat pasta out of bowls, that's perhaps what you're saying.

13:04Yeah, I think that's right. And the brand is intriguing, though. It looks good. The other thing about the brand that's really interesting or that I appreciate is that as far as I can tell, you're not screaming a particular functional benefit. There's a small button on the front of each box that mentions the protein callout, but it's not all about the protein. It's not all about the fiber. It's about the food and the taste of the food, which gets overlooked so often. This is the first thing that Maddie said yesterday in our conversation. How do you evaluate emerging brands? It has to taste good.

13:39And it has to grab the attention of a consumer in a way that's going to make their mouths water. I was thinking about when she said that yesterday. And I also felt pretty good that you have a, with the Angel Group, because there are 400 people, there's a good chance that someone's going to think your product tastes good. because taste obviously is subjective. And we hear from other investors that taste isn't the first thing they're looking for. It's a, so, so this is a, the angel group's philosophy is a little different than other investors, which is part of why this game is so difficult. I think most people in general want great taste, believe that great taste has to be a cornerstone of a brand.

14:17But again, great taste is subjective. Very subjective. Very subjective. And so what you think, well, obviously, Ray, what you think tastes great is that all investors should just talk to you. Okay. Just say, hey, does Ray love it? Because Ray knows what tastes great. I recall when the founders of Super Coffee were on Shark Tank and they were pitching to the Sharks, which at the time included Rojan Oza. And Rojanoza, to your point, felt like he didn't love the taste of the product. And they retorted, well, it's not for you. It's for a different consumer. It's for a younger consumer. It's for a consumer that doesn't or didn't grow up on traditional coffee.

15:01So I think your point is valid. For once. Yes! I'm winning everywhere. I got the events right. Right. It's again, every meeting with investors is going to be different. And you have to be prepared for that audience when you go into the conversation. Yes, absolutely. John, you mentioned Goodles. And I'm going to do a little mea culpa here because last week I mentioned that. Is there a correction? Well, not so much of a correction. I'll just say that we mentioned Goodles was acquired for$500 million or upwards of$500 million. According to some other sources that I consulted with, the number was significantly higher.

15:48Yeah, significantly higher. So an even bigger congratulations to Jen Zezut and the team over there at Goodles. A.K.A. Gen Z. A.K.A. Gen Z. You know what? You should definitely let her. I wonder if she's ever heard that before. We'll find out when we talk to her. She must have heard that. Yes. Vibrant Ingredients is the natural ingredient partner powering food and beverage innovation, delivering flavor, function, and protection through a science-backed portfolio. Vibrant delivers purpose-driven solutions that help brands create extraordinary experiences. Discover what's possible with Vibrant today.

16:29Visit VibrantIngredients.com. The Angel Group was among the first believers in brands like Poppy, Bacchans, Goodles, and Siete. The next generation of great consumer brands is being built right now. Learn about investing alongside other industry professionals at wearetheangelgroup.com. Like what you're hearing? Put it into action at our winter events. Nosh Live, BevNet Live, and BrewBound Live in Los Angeles this December. Register by October 23rd to save$100. Head to cpgmedia.com slash events. Also, big shout out and congratulations to Alex Witt and the team over at Battle Bars. Battle Bars has gone through a brand revamp that looks fantastic.

17:17So if you don't know, Battle Bars is a brand of protein bars based in Chicago. They have not only a refresh and a redesigned package, They have reformulated bars that cut each serving from 220 calories to about 190. They've also upped the protein content from 17 to 20 grams and increased fiber to 7 grams per bar. This is all according to a story written by Brad Avery. Of course, we saw Alex in Chicago. We did. He joined us for our Taste Reader Chicago meetup and joined me for a conversation on stage. And he filled up my bag with product, and I was flying JetBlue yesterday, and I forgot. I thought I was going to be stuck with JetBlue snacks, which, by the way, have a lot of room for improvement.

18:03They do right now. And I went to the bottom of my bag, and I was hoping for something. And guess what I pulled out? A battle bar! I was so happy. You're just winning. I was so happy. You've been winning for weeks now. Yeah. Yeah, well done. Thank you, Alex. Yeah. Well, I talked to Alex during the event and even before the event, and the original Battle Bars logo included a skull. I believe there's a lightning bolt through the skull. So before they did this refresh, they dug deep into the protein bar category. And it turns out that women make up a very significant chunk of the purchasing of protein bars.

18:42And so a skull with a lightning bolt going through it didn't necessarily mean... They found that that was less appealing to a potentially big piece of their audience. Yes, yes. I think they've been overcoming that, but they think that removing that will open them up to even more purchase. I feel like they definitely have a much more gender neutral look, which will take the brand in a good direction going forward. When do we get to try these? Hopefully very soon. I would say that if Alex is listening. They better be in the mail. also got the softest t-shirt from it is a very very wonderful t-shirt yes but that also goes for anyone listening who is a founder and launching a new product or launching a brand extension please send us samples you can find our address for our boston office or san diego office on the internets it's probably the best way if i mention it right now john's gonna get angry and be like just google it so wow okay wow it's true you're not supposed to tell people about my rage levels that you've done this on the podcast before you can go back and listen to other episodes that's exactly what happens yeah i'm holding in my hand a shot of salty if you don't know salty is a maker of better for you wellness shots i don't know if they've all got to be better for you if you call it a wellness shot it's it's got to be better it's got to be better for you yes yeah this is their Super Boost Super Shot, which contains turmeric.

20:10It contains filtered, does that say ginger? And it contains pineapple. This is one of my favorite shots on the market. I love this. Thanks so much to Sean and the team over there at Salty for providing us with so many shots and partnering with us on the San Diego event yesterday. Salty is one of the few brands in the shot category that sells their products in glass. Remember when we first met those guys and A lot of people poo-pooed the idea of being able to scale in glass, and they've done it. And they've done it in a really remarkable way. I don't know how many tens of thousands of points of distribution that Solty is in.

20:44I think it's like 30 ,000. And that doesn't even include Starbucks. So they've really come a long way. And they recently picked up$30 million in new investment. This according to an article written by Lucas Southerd on BevNet.com. To learn more about that raise, head to the website. Mike, what are you drinking? I'm drinking all phenoms, right? All Phenoms. What's All Phenoms? All Phenoms is a sparkling functional drink, and it's got pre and probiotics in it and lion's mane, reishi, vitamins. It's got a lot of function. But you know what I like about it? It tastes phenomenal. You like this brand.

21:21You're a consumer of the brand. Yes. If you want to be a part of their, I guess, influencer, ambassador to community, you need to be able to talk to other potential consumers in a way that's going to convince them to pick a can up and drink it. But you need to be able to do it in about 10 seconds. So how would I do it? Do it. Go 10 seconds. All phenoms. It's got great stuff in it for you and tastes great. It's got great stuff in it and tastes great. Okay. That works. Is that? Does it? Is that enough information? It's I mean, I'm, I'm bevnet Mike. And isn't that enough? Oh, I'm crying out loud.

22:00No, I mean, it's a, all phenoms is a difficult one to explain. This is a, you know, a sparkling drink that has the power of mushrooms and vitamin C in this one. But some of their other SKUs, I think, have some other function too. So, I mean, this is one of the challenges for a drink like this that has so much, arguably, really good functionality in it to explaining it. And so you say, well, where does it sit? Well, they've chosen the word sparkling functional drink because what category would you put this in? I mean, it reminds me of a Wild Wonder in some ways, although Wild Wonder is a fiber-centric brand of, I guess, better-for-you sodas.

22:45They don't really call their products sodas. Which, by the way, they've totally, because they're at a point where they can, have totally gone away from a lot of that language being in front of pack. And Wild Wonder is just focused on being a great-tasting probiotic beverage. Yeah, I mean, it definitely feels like it's more in line with the Olipops and Poppies of the world nowadays. And I think their entry point to the industry was functionality. And I think to your point, now they've become a brand that is a little bit more broad in terms of its appeal. Well, their entry point was as Tea Crush, which was— Oh, now you're really going way back in the day.

23:19As tea, a fermented tea. And then they were like, wait, this isn't where we're going to win. And we're going to win against in the probiotic space as an alternative to the kombuchas that were rising at the time. We're going to be a beverage that gives you that functionality, but we're going to taste better. That was their whole thesis. Yeah. And I think with all phenoms, it's a great looking package, but there is a lot going on. And I feel like you've got to zero in on one particular aspect that is broadly understood, at least in terms of your functionality. Like taste, of course, has to be really high on that list.

24:00But if you're going to say this thing does one thing for me, that should be front and center. That should be the highlight of what you're doing. And it is trying to do that, Ray. This one says wellness and balance. But again, what does wellness and balance mean? It's a little bit more esoteric in terms of— it also has real juice in it like if you go to the back you'll see it contains nine percent juice which is where some of the flavor and sweetness comes from and and i don't know i i really love this beverage and as we said the can is cool it's just doing a lot yeah yes well it tastes great once you once you taste it you're like oh yes well i i like it and i i'd love to advocate for it And I think I just need to nail down my pitch as well.

24:44Yeah, me too. Clearly. Speaking of pitches, if you would like to participate in the upcoming NOSH Pitch Slam or New Beverage Showdown or the Brewbound Pitch Slam, you can send us an application. You need to go to bevnet.com slash events. And we would love to review your application. Hopefully we'll see you on stage at one of those competitions in December. We'd also love, of course, to see you. If you're from any part of the world, you might as well just hop on a plane and come to London so that we can see you on October 21st at the offices of TRIP. Or come to L.A. Or come to L.A. But I'm saying the event that's a little bit closer than the events in L.A.

25:24is the event in— By distance or time? Both. Depends where you are. Depends on where you are. Anyway, that's the Taste Radio London meetup, which is happening at the offices of TRIP on October 21st. So if you are in the U.K. and you listen on a regular basis, we would love to meet you. Love to see you there. perhaps even love to feature you in a future episode of Taste Radio. That brings us to the end of this episode of Taste Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Taste Radio is a production of BevNet.com Incorporated. Our audio engineer for Taste Radio is Joe Cratchy. Our technical director is Joshua Pratt, and our video editor is Ryan Galang.

25:59Our social marketing manager is Amanda Smirlinski, and our designer is Amanda Huang. Just a reminder, if you like what you hear on Taste Radio, please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. And of course, we would love it if you could review us on the Apple Podcasts app or your listening platform of choice. Check us out on Instagram. Our handle is BevNetTasteRadio. As always, for questions, comments, ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email to ask at tasteradio.com. On behalf of the entire Taste Radio team, thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.

26:45Hey, folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I'm supremely honored to be sitting down with Jordan Radke and Dan Abel, the co-founders of Pilot Project Brewing. Jordan, it's great to see you again. Yeah, likewise, Ray. Dan, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having us. Thanks so much for being with me. And thank you so much again for hosting our Taste Radio Chicago meetup last month, a fantastic event that you guys hosted at your location in the Logan Square neighborhood of Chicago. Really well attended and just heard a lot of really good feedback from folks about the networking and of course your amazing space, which was so welcoming to our guests.