The Surprising Trends Reshaping Back Bars & Pantries Alike

28:25And sometimes when they get these non-alcoholic spirits, they don't really have a direction of how to use it. So even by calling it a non-alcoholic whiskey, a bartender might think to himself, oh, or herself, hey, you know, I can use that in an old fashioned or I can use that in a whiskey sour variation. just the mindset alone, I think is enough to give them some cues on just how to use it and how to, and how to sell it. But you're right. You know, I think like the Seedlip Grove is great. You know, it has more citrus elements and you can use that in, you know, gin-based cocktails or even whiskey based cocktails.

29:01But I think it is maybe a little bit more advanced for bartenders that know how to use it. But I think for, you know, even the consumer that wants to go to the store and buy something non-alcoholic, they do need a little bit more direction on how best to use it. Along the same lines, low alcohol cocktails has been a growing trend that we've seen as well. Here at the events, you know, you would never think, or I think there's a lot of people who wouldn't think that you could make a refreshing drink using Johnny Black. And Johnny Walker Black has some fantastic, refreshing cocktails that you can have in the blazing hot sun here in Austin.

29:42I see just huge explosive growth. And to be honest, I think it was spritzers and like the Aperol Spritz that really kind of exploded that low ABV. I mean, Aperol Spritz has been around for forever, decades, but people want something kind of light and refreshing, but that's just not really heavy with alcohol. And, you know, Seedlip, to be honest, I think is also a great modifier. I use it along with spirits too. Or if I want to have a gin and tonic, but I don't want a full ounce and a half of gin, I might do a split base of like Seedlip Garden and gin. So I get a little hint of something, but I also am not sacrificing the flavor.

30:23Do bar guests and customers, are they thrown off though when they do see a legacy brand, a bourbon, a scotch brand in something that's a spritz-based cocktail or spritz cocktail? because they would typically, or I would typically say, oh, that's not going to be refreshing. I mean, how much education has to go into getting people to see the versatility of some of these products? I think people are really excited by it. I mean, to give you another example, you know, at our bar, we do a lot of really atypical frozen drinks. We might do a frozen penicillin, you know, with Talisker and Johnny Walker Black.

31:01And it's something that you wouldn't expect that would go over well, but, you know, people love it. So I think being able to do some atypical things, I think is great. And, you know, scotch is a great ingredient to incorporate with tropical ingredients. So that's another great way to introduce something that is maybe typically associated with heavier cocktails in a really light and fun way. So I think those are some great ways to introduce that spirit in very fun in atypical ways. I mean, I find that people love to experiment. People love to try new things that are maybe some familiar flavors, but just presented in a different way.

31:42This is a tough competition, the world-class competition. And you've been here for a couple of days and you've been judging, you've judged a lot of competition. How many, how many competitions would you say? You know, probably maybe close to 50 or 60. Wow. Yeah. That's a lot. Wait, How do you maintain? I know it's just small sips you're taking. I do. You know, you have to spit everything out mostly. Maybe the last one I can have. But it's a very serious competition. And like, you know, we talked about this before we got on the mics. The person that is awarded Bartender of the Year, the person that's named Bartender of the Year, it's a life-changing thing for them.

32:19So it makes your job very, very important and impactful. When you are evaluating these 30 contestants and then eventually the five finalists, you know, what are you seeing in the ones that really stand out? What are the ones, what are you seeing in the winner themselves? Personality is also a huge piece of it because, you know, to be a good bartender, it's not necessarily about how well you can hold your bar tools, how much history you know, how many recipes you know. It is how you connect with a guest. You know, that is a huge part of hospitality. And so even evaluating how someone interacts with the judges speaks volumes.

33:02So I think that's something that is also incorporated into the judging process, how well they can connect with the judges and how well they can tell a story. Because again, that all translates to how they can interact with their guests and hospitality. It also helps them to be able to communicate what they're using in their cocktails and the spirits that they work with. I'll give you a great example. So I was one of the judges for the Kettle One Garnished with Good. And it's so funny. Every year there's usually one ingredient and they're not working with each other, but there's one ingredient that everybody is using.

33:35And this year it was honey, so much honey. I mean, a good majority of the participants were using honey. But using honey does a lot of good for the local community. And there was really only one bartender that really explained why that's important. Because when you use this honey and you are supporting your local beekeepers, you are also supporting your local agriculture. And they kind of being, you know, just being able to communicate that and make that tie and that loop, I think is really important. Because when you are able to share that with your guests, I mean, those small little things, those small little details can be very impactful.

34:16So to your point of being a really good communicator and being a really good storyteller has the power to evoke change. There are so many spirits out there, so many spirit brands, and it feels like bartenders sort of have their pick of what they can use and what they may not want to use. But it feels like there's a lot of creativity and a lot of versatility, as I mentioned earlier, with spirit brands. But how do you generate that creativity? How do you generate inspiration for a particular spirit brand when it isn't necessarily something that you might use on a regular basis? I think the best way for bartenders to use spirit brands that they may not be familiar with is to taste a lot of food.

35:01Go out there and be very familiar with and start paying attention to what's going on in your mouth. So even biting an apple, you know, you can say, oh, this is an apple. It tastes like an apple. But if you really start paying attention to what you are tasting, you know, an apple, for example, oh, I get a lot of like, sometimes I might get a little lemon. I might get a little lime. I might get some more acidity. Oh, I'm getting some other kind of orchard fruits. Just start paying attention to what is going on in your mouth and being able to recall some of those flavors. So start paying attention, I would say, first of all, because when you start paying attention to the things that you are eating and how your, you know, your salivary glands are going on, you'll be able to recall some of those flavors.

35:41So when you start using spirits or start tasting spirits, you become more familiar with the, oh, those aromatics or, oh, those flavors. Oh, you know what? Now I'm tasting this scotch, which I don't really taste that often. And, oh, you know what? I'm getting a little bit of peach right there. I'm getting a little bit of raisin. I'm getting a little bit of, and you can start to recall and then you can start to make some flavor bridges. Oh, you know what? This scotch or the spirit that I haven't tried before, you know, now I'm tasting it and now I get these herbs. Maybe I'm getting some red fruit.

36:13Maybe I'm getting some banana. I'm getting a little tropical fruit. And then you can start to create those flavor bridges. You know what? I'm getting a little bit of pineapple. I'm going to throw, I want to use some pineapple in that. Oh, I'm getting a little bit of sage. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to put some sage in there. So I think the more that you taste and the more that you start to pay attention, it becomes really easy. So you could give me a spirit that I've never tried before. I'm going to taste it and I'm going to find some of those flavor bridges. So I think the more that you just start paying attention and the more that you start tasting and training your palate, it becomes really easy.

36:47Kim, I got to ask you one more question and it's another top of mind trend for the industry and that's ready to drink cocktails. And it feels like that to me has a ton of potential as long as the cocktail is good. Like it has to be great. Some products I've seen out there have been great. Others, not so much. Is consistency, though, the biggest problem with this category? Or is it just it's going to take time to sort of weed out the ones that work and the ones that don't? So within the RTD category, I am already seeing the weeding out happen. I judge a couple of different spirit competitions. And a few years ago, oh, my God, they were horrible.

37:25They were so bad. The disgust. Oh, my gosh. It was, there were a few, you know, that rose the cream of the crop. But now, like, we, I just judged a spirit competition a few weeks ago, and there were some amazing RTDs, both alcoholic and non-alcoholic RTDs, that I was like, I would drink that all day long. I mean, if I, if, you know, if you want to give me a canned gin and tonic, it better taste just as good as I go to a bar. You know, that's kind of my, that's my barrier. Even the canned vodka and soda. which is, you know, pretty, pretty neutral, but it needs to be as good as if you go to a bar and get it.

38:05That's kind of like my, my bar. But I think I'm so impressed with the, the number of NA RTDs and alcoholic RTDs that are hitting the market and the quality level. And I think that's going to continue to increase. And for the guest, you know, I think it's a, it's a great entree maybe into spirits that they've never had before. You know, what I've found is there's a lot of people that are kind of like, no, I'm my, I'm my vodka soda drinker. I don't want to change, but then they might go to the grocery store and they see some pretty packaging and that's, you know what? It's a little couple of steps away that I'm comfortable with, but you know what?

38:38It's a few bucks. It's not a big investment. I want to try it. So it's a great way to get people to also try new spirits and try new flavors. So, and it's a great way to get them to try cocktails too. And I think if they can kind of get out of what they're used to, they actually might be even more open-minded to trying other things at a bar. Kim, this has been a fabulous conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for what you do for the bartending industry, for the cocktail community. It's very much appreciated as a consumer to see better products and to see better service across America.

39:11And again, you were one of the people that helped make it the way it is today. So thank you. Well, thanks. It's been such a wonderful privilege to be a part of this industry and just really see just the dramatic change that's happened over the past 20 years. And it's going to continue to evolve. just like all industries do. But I'm happy to be a little small part of that. Yeah, and I'm happy you're here with me or took the time to sit with me today. Thank you again. Thanks. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio back on the mics, this time with Adam Fournier, who is the world-class U.S. bartender of the year for 2021.

39:48Adam, great to see you. Thanks for having me here. It's lovely to be back. It definitely is. Well, actually back, you know, in 2021, this event, this competition was held virtually. Absolutely. It was held virtually that year, which was a different challenge and a lot of fun. But that was actually my fifth year entering world class. So world class for me was the very first bartending competition I ever entered. I did relatively well my first time around. And then I actually didn't make it in for two years, which just made me hungrier and hungrier. I entered in 2019, made it to the national finals, entered in 2020, and we all know how that year went.

40:25So what ended up happening for 2021, when it became clear that things weren't really going to be letting up for a while, they reached out to all of us who had made the top 50 for 2020 and said, would you like to participate in a virtual version of this program? And to a person, every single person said yes, which I think is an amazing testament to the power of this community, but also of this program and this competition that everyone went, yeah, you know what? My life is crazy right now. I absolutely want to learn how to edit myself on video, record a five-minute single take of me making this cocktail and do this competition.

41:00So even though we weren't in the same room with each other, there were absolutely group chats. There were virtual meetings, all of that extra little stress that comes along with it. And we actually did the global version of the competition digitally that year as well. So what's been really, really great this past year is getting to actually be in person with everyone and meeting so many people that I only ever saw virtually. I actually got to mentor last year's bartender, Jesse Pollock. We went down to Sydney for the global finals, and it was like a two-year reunion for everyone because not only was it that year's competitors, it was so many people from 2021 as well.

41:35And so many hugs, so many late nights, and just a really wonderful experience to see that kind of camaraderie spill over from a screen into real life. Yeah, it sounds like an amazing experience, you know, having been sitting in front of your computer or sitting in front of a camera for two years to finally see those people IRL. There's nothing like being able to sit across the bar from someone and make them a drink. That's really what it comes down to. and it's what I try to tell every competitor and every person I've got a chance to mentor or talk to since then. It's really, that's what it comes down to.

42:14No matter all the bells and whistles that go on today, no matter how many extra challenges or things we throw at you to try to trip you up all to the end of the day, it's what you do every single day at work. It's making a drink for a person and trying to connect with them and give them an experience that they can't get at home, that they can't get making a drink for themselves. It's about elevating that moment in time. How has winning the competition impacted your career? Winning the competition really helped launch me to the next step of where I was going just faster, I think. After winning, I got a position as a bar director for what became a Michelin-recognized space in Brentwood.

42:51That did not last too long for various reasons. Money is always an issue these days. But those experiences led me to what right now is an incredibly unique opportunity. I just a few months ago took on a position as the first ever bar director for Wolfgang Puck Spago in Beverly Hills now I get to steer a cruise ship that is a beast of a place and try to turn that bar into something that matches his legacy and everything so it's one of those things where it definitely put me in touch with the right people to be able to showcase what I can do and have a wonderful collection of materials to say no this is what I can do this is the creativity that I have on offer essentially almost like a pitch deck of what you can do if given the right tools.

43:36And when you get that information to the right people, the people who get excited about that are like, yes, I want to do this. But more than just putting in a position of a job, it's one of those things where it's put me in touch with people that I love to be creative with and work with. And I always say it's insane that being a bartender has flown me around the world. Making a really good martini has gotten me to Sydney, Australia, it's gotten me to France, it's gotten me to Mexico, it's gotten me to like every, almost everything that I've gotten to do over the past 10 years is in some way, shape or form linked to that creativity.

44:07And so much of it is linked to the world-class program and the USBG and the community that they build for all of that, because it is not just a local space. It is a truly global connection. And it's really interesting to see how small that community really is once you start actually talking with everyone. I imagine some of our listeners will be hearing you say this and be like, you know what? I think a career change into bartending might be the right thing for me. It's also so fascinating with the competitors this year. Every year, we always have these conversations with people like, well, what did you used to do?

44:39Or what do you do now? And like one of the competitors this year was telling us in his story that he, on the same day, started a master's degree in teaching, a job as a bar back. And guess which one stuck around? Another one of our competitors, she used to be a theoretical mathematician. Wow. It is one of those things that there is this stereotype that bartenders and servers and hospitality workers are unskilled work sometimes. But the amount of education and the amount of passion that comes into the people in this industry is really inspiring. And it is one of those things that creates some of those unique experiences that gets to make going out for a drink or dinner or gathering at a bar such a unique experience.

45:20You're exposed to new ingredients. You're exposed to all kinds of spirits and spirit brands from all over the world. What's really interesting to you these days in terms of formulations, new products coming to market, ingredients that are relatively novel to the industry? What's really been interesting and amazing to me is the explosion of non-alcoholic or lower ABV options out there on the market, which is absolutely amazing. I've been very fortunate that for most of my career, I've worked in restaurant bars, and I've been very fortunate to be working in very high-end places. So I have a lot of great food to pair along with it, and you see a lot of people who really want that dining experience.

46:02But especially in Los Angeles, we're a city of cars. You come out, like, it's not necessarily that you might not want another drink, but it's, hey, I'm the one driving home tonight, or I've got an hour and a half back on the road, but you don't want to miss out on that experience for it. And these tools like Seedlip and some of these lower ABV modifiers, cherries, things like that, that are starting to get a resurgence, allow you to craft an experience that allows those guests to feel like they're still part of it. One of the things I do with my non-alcoholic program is it's not about trying to recreate the specific flavor of a cocktail, because let's be honest, you're never going to create a non-alcoholic margarita that tastes like a margarita.

46:39You can't make that tequila taste, but you can create something that replaces the experience of a margarita. If you take, say, like the sea lip garden and get that kind of green earthy notes to it and you get that drink that looks beautiful that someone can raise up and cheers for their social medias, for their TikToks, for their Instagrams, and they get to feel like a part of that moment or they get to have their ritual at the end of the meal with maybe a stirred style of cocktail. Those are really cool to see coming out right now. There's also a wonderful explosion of agave products and appreciation for those and not just tequilas, but getting more into those mezcals, but also some more of the off the beam pass, like your Racia's, your Bacanora's, so tolls.

47:19That might be partially because I'm in Southern California. So we get a little bit of influx before other places. But that's really where I think a lot of the exciting stuff is going on right now is figuring out how to take everything that we've learned or relearned over the past, you know, 15, 20 years of the cocktail resurgence and applying that to flavors and taking all those techniques to create, again, that experience. You know, you've been judging this competition now or on day two, and you're exposed to a lot of bartenders from all over the country. Is there anything that you're seeing that is kind of surprising you or interesting you in terms of how they are formulating their cocktails?

47:59Is there anything that's sort of a bleeding edge trend that you're like, wow, that's really interesting. I wonder if that could pick up in Los Angeles. Yeah, it's always interesting coming to get judges and seeing the bartenders from across the country because even without them talking to each other and from all over the country, you start seeing patterns and trends emerge. And a lot of what we're seeing is sort of a lower ABV flavor layered cocktails, a lot of split bases using, for instance, I was judging the Johnny Walker storytelling competition for the past two days saw a lot of split bases taking the wonderful johnny walker scotch and blending that with say sea lip or sherry or a vermouth not just for a stirred cocktail but to create a layered sour or a fizz and also just a lot of culinary creativity this is a generation generation i make myself sound so old when i say no this round of bartenders i I think that we've put out so much interesting information on how to use the culinary techniques that are so often just associated with chefs and kitchens.

49:04And there has been a wonderful dissemination of not only that information, but those tools now. Like people are getting more interested in doing a nicer bar at a restaurant and being able to use a lot of those things. and seeing so many bartenders now take some of that stuff from the kitchen and learn with it and work with it and apply that into creating a syrup or an infusion or things like that. It's always been something that's been kind of on that cutting edge, but to be able to see it being utilized not just by bartenders from New York or L.A. or big markets, but to look at the competitor from Columbus, Ohio and say, wow, that's really impressive what you're able to do in that kitchen.

49:46That's, I think, really, really great. Like to see that spreading across, because at the end of the day, that's also spreading into how we think about how we layer these flavors. And along with that lower ABV conscientious drinking, you're also seeing a lot of trends towards that sustainability initiative. How do you think conscientiously about what you're putting together with it? I think that's something that world-class, especially the Kettle One and the Nolette families do a very good job of helping to educate and spread with this program, with the Garnish with Good Challenges and the Hive Collective, a lot of the initiatives that they do to try to raise awareness of that and to really get these bartenders to think about where's your ingredient coming from?

50:28Not just, hey, is this local, but what is the reason for wine to use local? What does this do for it? And how do you apply that into your cocktail and your storytelling? Because even outside the competition, when you're designing a cocktail, when you're designing a program, you're doing any of this stuff, you're ultimately telling a story. And was the story. You don't need everyone to know that story right away. In fact, I'm a big believer that they shouldn't know it. I'm so happy that we're past the phase where we were all like, hey, look at my 15 ingredient cocktail. Let me tell you about it for 15 minutes before you get a chance to take a sip.

50:58And now we're into this point, it's like, hey, here's a really good cocktail. And my philosophy has always been, I want you to come back three times. First time, I want you to come in, I want you to order a drink. Then I want you to go away, have a good time and go, man, the drinks at that place were better than where we went that night. Next time around, let's go there. Second time you come in, you're like, yeah, it's just as good as I remember. And the third time, you're like, why? Why is this better than what I'm getting aware of? Now we can start talking about what we're doing, what the program is, why we're sourcing, what we're doing, what we're going on with it.

51:25And I love that approach because, A, as a business model, it gets me a regular. It gets someone who's been in three times, helping me keep the lights on, pay those rents. And second, we're engaging in making someone interested rather than forcing it down someone's throat. They want to engage on it. And now they trust us, which now means that we get to start talking about all the really nerdy things that we like. We're like, hey, this bottle that no one likes to drink except for me, I can now tell you about this and the process of what goes into it. And it's just like that wonderful back and forth, those connections that you start finding.

51:54And that, I think, is where you start seeing that organic growth of these trends and these brands. And I think that's one of the wonderful things you see about this Diageo Reserve portfolio is it's really easy sometimes, I think, to forget because they are such large brands. but they are still at the cutting edge of a lot of the sustainability movements, a lot of those techniques, and really engaging with the community. So I think it's just a nice confluence of a lot of things when you get down to those points. Adam, I'm going to ask you about one aspect of low and no elk cocktails, and this is more related to the no elk versions.

52:30You know, you see more cocktail lists that are including four or five non-elk cocktails, And typically the price point is a little lower. It's a little less than the full ABV or high ABV cocktails. And even so, I think some customers might be like, well, why am I paying, you know, 10 or$11 for a cocktail that has no spirit component to it or has a spirit alternative component to it? Is that question coming up among consumers? Is that a bit of an issue with, I guess, explaining and communicating the value that you're getting, even though it doesn't have a spirit component? I think it's a very interesting inflection point of the no alcohol, the spirit-free cocktails at the moment.

53:15Much in the same way, I think there was a really interesting inflection point, I want to say like maybe 10, 15 years ago with the craft cocktail movement where people are like, why am I paying$12 to$15 for a cocktail when I can get a$2 margarita at my local chain? And part of that's education, part of that's quality, and part of that is just understanding your tools and being able to express that to your guests. There is some questions sometimes. I'm very fortunate, like I said, because I think it is an easier conversation in a dining environment. It fits a little bit like, okay, how we do this, then maybe a full-time bar.

53:52But I think part of that is going back to what I was saying about if you approach it from a thoughtful manner instead of just saying, I made a non-alcoholic margarita, give me money and saying, I'm replacing the experience that you would get from having a margarita without that alcohol. What you're now paying for is not necessarily the alcohol content. You're paying for the experience. And that goes back to what we were just talking about with that whole dining thing. We were going out for experiences and memories. so if you can craft something that is a complement to creating that experience to that environment you're going to be able to bypass a lot of those conversations of what is the value so it comes back to taste is king doesn't matter how nice your place is or anything like that even for full spirit of cocktails if it doesn't taste good people don't like the value they're they're upset they're going to send it back they're not going to come back same thing's got to go with your non-alcoholic.

54:48So you have to approach it differently. You have to think about what is the weight of this drink? Where's the balance coming from? What are we doing? But then also what fun things can we do to recreate? Like for instance, I make a non-alcoholic sparkling rosé that we fully carbonate. And that's a technique I learned from Diageo Bar Academy and from the world-class family and people like teaching me how to like use these tools. So great. So what would take essentially what is like a really, really, really fancy tea and fully carbonate and put it in a bottle and come table side and pop it for you and pour it.

55:18It's like having a glass of champagne. And that's a really great experience. So you have those moments, you can really recreate something. But what I'll say as well, and this was amazing to me, I was fortunate enough to be in Dublin like a year, year and a half ago. And there's a bar there called the Virgin Mary Bar, which was a fully non-alcoholic bar, no hard alcohol at all. And if you can make a non-alcoholic bar work in Ireland, I think we can get that message. But talking with the owners there was a really great kind of eye-opener as well, where there is also slightly a generational shift where the younger people are coming to the bar pretty much understood it.

55:59They're like, oh, I get what's going on here. Some of the older clientele, not as much like what's going on a little bit. But then again, it is also because I always have to kind of bring it back to this because this is a point where I'm at, where I think at the end of the day, we are a business. We're trying to keep lights on, things like that. It is something about how do you pair and add to that experience as well. We were talking about usually you've got about maybe two to three drinks from someone if they're a fully non-alcoholic space because you're not getting that extra high volume. Right.

56:30So what do you add into that? What is your decor? What are your games? What is the environment? I think the thing that keeps circling around this interview we keep talking about is what does it come back to that experience? Ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what we're trading money for. As much as we try to talk about like, yes, this is drinking this glass and all these things. It's how are we adding to the experience and getting to have these tools like CLIP now as part of the reserve portfolio is just another ingredient and tool to help craft those experiences to bring in the next person.

56:59Because I can't tell you the number of people. It's like, here's a group of six people. One is a designated driver. One's not drinking for whatever reason. Great. We want to keep them involved. that if you don't have something for that one person, you're missing out on experience and a sale and all those little things that go along with it. The other thing that goes along with it, I think that's starting to happen is destigmatizing, not drinking. I remember when I first started, it was like if someone snuck up to the bar, like, hey, I need a non-alcoholic drink, but don't tell anyone. Now it's like, I see people come up, it's like, yeah, I'm going to get three Old Fashionings, a martini, and hey, that non-alcoholic martini, and no one bats an eye.

57:34And it's like, you're all on board with that. Great, that's just a normal drink order. I think that's really, really great to start seeing. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, speaking of experience, this has been a great experience speaking with you, Adam. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for having me. It's been a really fun week and we still have more to come. Absolutely. Looking forward to it. Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio right now. I'm honored to be sitting in front of and speaking with Jesse Pollack, who is the 2022 U.S. Bartender of the Year and back in the lines then, so to speak, as a judge.

58:06Jessie, great to see you. Hi, Ray. I'm so happy to get to have a moment to speak with you. It's a busy couple of days, so I'm glad we found a chance to talk. Absolutely. And it's a busy couple of days, and we're in this cavernous ballroom where there's a little bit of an echo. Listeners will probably be able to hear that. And outside, it's a beautiful day in Austin. Have you been able to soak up any of the sun? Not too much. We've been inside judging the competition, but we've gotten a chance to check out a couple of places in the evening, check out some bars, and I definitely want to come back to Austin sometime.

58:35This is your first time? It is. Wow. Okay. It's a fun city for sure. You know, so far so good. As I mentioned, the 2022 U.S. Bartender of the Year, an accolade that about 30 folks, well, exactly 30 folks are trying to achieve this year in 2023. You know, going through that process of being judged on your cocktails and your ability to mix alcohol and mixers and things like that, it's not the easiest thing to do. And when I was taking a look at some of the competitions yesterday, it felt very nerve-wracking. It felt exciting, but also very challenging in so many ways. Was it like that for you? I mean, when you were in the competition last year, what was the experience like?

59:18Absolutely. It is very challenging. This is something that can really change the trajectory of a competitor's career. It can really, you know, change your life if you become the winner. So people put a lot of passion and work into this. And the whole idea behind World Class is that it's really meant to challenge every part of what it means to be a great bartender. So you might be really fast or you might be able to tell a great story. But if you can't do all of it, then you're not going to be successful in this competition. How has winning the competition affected your career? I know it's only been a year, but what's happened since?

59:50It has been a whirlwind. There have been ups and downs, mostly ups, I would say. I got to compete in Sydney, Australia last September in the global finals. So I competed against over 50 other bartenders from around the world, each representing one country. And I made it into the top 10, which I felt great about. And since then, I've been able to offer some mentorship to the competitors this year to be a judge and to travel the United States a little bit and get to present on topics that I love, like sustainability and making low and no proof cocktails. With all the traveling and mentoring and everything else you're doing, do you still find time to bartend?

1:00:28I do. I actually run a bar program in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and I spend a couple nights a week behind the bar as well. Very cool. It's interesting you bring up low and no proof alcohol cocktails because it feels like that is a bleeding edge trend that is becoming really relevant in our community, in the cocktail community and beyond. What are some of your favorite ways of preparing said cocktails? You know, I'm so excited about this movement. It feels so accessible to me. I think it's amazing that we are working toward making bars a place where more people feel comfortable and they feel welcomed and they feel like they're being taken care of because that's the whole point of bars is to offer hospitality.

1:01:10So here at World Class, we're using specifically some non-alcoholic distilled spirits called Seedlip. We've challenged the competitors to use Seedlip in many of their cocktails. And we've seen some amazing either no proof or low proof cocktails in the last two days. Yeah, it's exciting. And it feels like there is a turning point that's happening where people are going to bars and restaurants and expecting great tasting, low and no proof alcohol. You know, I agree with you that bars are intended to be a place of hospitality and a welcoming place for a lot of folks. But teaching hospitality is tough.

1:01:46And understanding what it takes to be successful in your craft is also tough. How would you advise newcomers to the bar industry about how to be successful and also how to manage the craziness of being behind the bar and also your own personal life? I love this question. I love this question because it's something that I think about a lot, especially now that I am in a leadership and mentorship role. And I see the same mistakes happen again and again in, you know, newer hospitality professionals careers. So newer bartenders, servers, what have you, where you get really excited about it and get into it and start to believe that it's about you and you're putting on a show for the guests.

1:02:33And the people who are successful get past that and they realize that it's not actually about us. It's about the guests. So we are here to make our guests feel welcome and cared for. And we can't do that unless we know who we are as well. So I think being really comfortable in your own skin and making sure that you're taking time to know who you want to be and who you are is the first step. And then from there, make those guests feel welcome, make them feel like they're being cared for and like they're really being heard. You know, you can be a great bartender, you can be a great mixologist, but is hospitality really the key factor in being successful?

1:03:09I think the key factor in being successful is kindness. So being kind to yourself, being kind to your colleagues and being kind to your guests is going to get you much further than anything else, in my opinion. Have your guests advised you about new ways to prepare cocktails? And if so, you know, what are some of the spirits and ingredients that are most interesting to you today? Well, we've seen in the last couple of years that agave spirits are really blowing up in the United States. Of course, people are more adventurous than they were even a few years ago. I've been excited to see that my guests are much more willing at this point to really put trust in bartenders to make something for them and maybe go a little bit outside of their comfort zone.

1:03:52So moving into things like mescal or sotol, and we've really seen the palate of at least the Midwest consumer really change and move toward more bitter sort of elements. So, you know, Negronis used to be a very like hit or miss thing for our guests. And now I find a lot of my guests are really seeking out more bitter tastes and more complex sort of flavor profiles. Why is that? Is it just because they're more willing to try new things or is it because the pandemic in so many ways encouraged experimentation in what you eat and drink? I think definitely that point that the pandemic, you know, affected people's palates and affected their interest in cuisine, their interest in cocktails and what they were trying out at home.

1:04:36But also these are trends that we see throughout time. You know, I think it's partially a demographic shift as we're seeing, you know, younger consumers. So I have more millennials and fewer boomers in my bar at this point in time. And they are looking for things that are a little more bitter, a little less sweet. And they're also more focused on, you know, health in that they're looking for things that are made with real ingredients and natural or organic products. Interesting. So organic is becoming a real, I guess, point of interest among your guests? Less so in the cocktail scene, I would say, but they are looking for things that are not, you know, using artificial sweeteners or just things that are made, you know, with real ingredients.

1:05:18I would say organic is definitely more on the cuisine side of things at this point. When you're mixing cocktails these days, I always think about the brands that are adjacent to the spirit companies, sort of the mixers and the tonics and all these other things. And it feels like there are so many out there and there's just so much, I guess, utility for all these different kinds of mixers and tonics. But do they really come into play behind the bar? I mean, is it something where you're more interested in using these types of branded products in a way that you hadn't in the past? They don't come into play in my bar, per se, because I focus on a bar program that is really making everything from scratch.

1:05:57So, for example, I have a gin and tonic on my menu, but it is a seasonally made tonic that we make in-house with, you know, fresh ingredients and seasonal flavors. That said, this movement's kind of cool in that there are things like ready-to-drink cocktails so that folks can enjoy a cocktail and not just a glass of wine or a beer if they're at home or, you know, on the boat or wherever they may be. And it's also allowing bars that don't really have everything they need to make great cocktails. Now they can offer a wider variety of products to their guests. Would you ever serve a ready-to-drink cocktail on your menu?

1:06:33I mean, a can or bottles? If it were the right one and I were excited about it, absolutely. It's not like an absolute dogma sort of thing where I would never. Now, if you were advising an entrepreneur that's in the RTD cocktail space or thinking about getting into it, How would you talk to them about what they need to be successful, what they need to create a great tasting liquid, not just for, you know, the hardcore cocktail consumer, but to make it a little bit more of a mainstream type of product? Well, what I can say is as a bar manager who purchases products and also as someone who, you know, imbibes at home and purchases products, what I'm really looking for is transparency.

1:07:13And I think a lot of consumers are where the key to being successful is we need to be able to see exactly what is in the product that you're selling us. You know, alcohol laws in the United States are confounding to me. There are so many things that can be added to products without actually being disclosed. Of course, you know, a bottle of liquor doesn't have like nutritional facts on it. So in many ways, it comes down to the producer to offer up that information so that the guests feel informed and then you're building trust with that consumer. Do you ever advise spirit companies on future formulations when they are introducing new expressions or new flavors of their branded products?

1:07:53are you talking to them about, you know, what might come next or what you would want to see on your bar back? And if so, like, what are some of the things that you would be thinking about for, you know, next year and the year beyond that? Yeah, I've had the good fortune of being able to advise or consult on some products, working on some ready to drink cocktails, and then also helping with some local products out of Minneapolis. And it's been exciting to, yeah, sort of help shape that and just offer what I see as a bartender. Jesse, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me. I can feel how important this business is to you and how serious you take it, but also how much passion you bring to the industry.

1:08:36So thanks so much for doing what you do and let's stay in touch. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to talk to you. And now we have one more day of judging this competition to go. Here we go. And more cocktails to drink. Always.

1:08:52that brings us to the end of this episode of taste radio thank you so much for listening taste radio is a production of bevnet.com incorporated our audio engineer for taste radio is joe cratchy our technical director is joshua pratt and our video editor is ryan galang our social marketing manager is amanda smerlinski and our designer is amanda huang just reminder if you like what you hear on taste radio please share the podcast with friends and colleagues and of course we would love it if you could review us on the apple podcast app or your listening platform of choice check us out on instagram our handle is bevnet taste radio as always for questions comments ideas for future podcasts please send us an email to ask at taste radio.com on behalf of the entire taste radio team thank you for listening and we'll talk to you next time

1:09:49Thank you.