TikTok, It's Time To Make Money. But, Is There Any For Kids' Brands?

0:10Hello and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. Life-size Jackie. For the first time ever, we're all here in the WCB. The West Coast branch. I'm surprised we all fit in this room. Usually it's just me. This is not the biggest room that I've ever been in, but we do have four cameras. We do have four mics. We have the soundboard. We have computers. We have all kinds of things here. Where are the other mics?

0:44Making it work. You know, one dad joke One, that's it for this episode He got us all fired up before the episode Telling great dad jokes Well, I said one dad joke And it was about levels and Avicii There were two And frankly, not many dads know who Avicii is Come on, it was a great joke I got it John was like, I know who Avicii is I'm a cool dad Avicii's been around for a while, right? Yeah, that doesn't make you cool at this point Because you know Avicii All right. Anyway. Yeah, we're all here in the San Diego office. And we're here because tomorrow we're hosting one of our annual meetups. That is it to invite all folks.

1:24It's semi-annual, right? Semi-annual this one? Yeah. This is our second time. That's right. We did. I just wasn't here for that. Yeah, it's okay. Time's fine. It's the first annual with you here. It's good. Welcome. There you go. Well, no, I was here for the one in September last year, too. Right. So it's the annual Ray shows up at the semi-annual meetup. It's the only CP Jesus meetup. Oh, for crying out loud. I'm excited, though, because we're expecting a throng of food and beverage entrepreneurs, operators, service industry folks all here to meet, network, drink some nice libations, alcohol or otherwise, alcoholic or otherwise, and snack on some fun.

2:02What's wrong with that? No, I'm drinking a cold brew coffee from an allaghanced glass. It looks like beer. It looks like a porter. He's on East Coast time, he's drinking early No, I actually have a taste radio drinking game, every time you say a certain word, I'm just What's the word? I'm not going to tell you I'm going to try saying it I think Mike did that actually, Mike does it all the time on stage when he's a judge for the New Beverage Showdown We have secret words So look out for that folks The next time Mike says alligator on stage everyone has to I don't know, what does everyone have to do when you say the secret word?

2:37Just laugh Oh, he just wants laughs. He wants laughter. We just know. That's how you generate laughter on stage is you tell people to do something beforehand. Yeah, that's exactly it. He seeds it. I have an applause meter. Actually, I was wondering because when you get back into the room, you point at people and be like, you're supposed to laugh. Anyway. So angry. I'm such an angry person. Mike doesn't have a temper.

3:03Jackie, director of marketing for BevNet, Nosh, Taste Radio, and Brewbound. Does Mike have a temper? No. No, he's good. That's good. Calm, cool, and collected. The turn. The turn. He's like, what is she going to say? He just gave me the look. He's putting me on the spot. The swivel just came around to me right now. And Mike looked like he wanted to stab me in the throat. No, I was just like, Jackie. Have you got my back? Jackie's got my back. Yeah. Well, I don't think Mike has a temper anyway. All right, calm down. Calm down. Jeez. I just look like I want to bite someone's head off. Except when he's, you know, crushing, what was it?

3:36The hard seltzer? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Get a temper. Wait. Hard tea or hard tea. Oh, yes. Hard tea. Yes. Arizona's hard tea. Yes. Except he was crushing Arizona's tea. Oh, literally crushing. Yeah. Like with a hammer. Supergirl uniform, you know. So your alter ego is angry. Alter ego is super angry. We put that on Instagram. Did we put that up on TikTok? Yeah, we did. I put my own smashing video on there. It was good. Oh, you did one too? Yeah. In slow-mo. But I smashed the can too. Oh, okay. That's not good. You're not supposed to smash the can. It's like outtake. It looked cool. All right.

4:06For folks who don't know what we're talking about, go on to Bev Nat's Instagram page. Find the post where Mike is smashing a concrete block, and inside that concrete block is a can of Arizona hard tea. I'm wearing a cape and a hard hat on the cover photo. You might not recognize him. Once again, my professional segue was sidelined by people who are trying to sideline my segue. Anyway, I want to talk about TikTok because TikTok has been in the news. It's always in the news, but this is very applicable to our audience in that TikTok shop, which had been— FYI, this was your other dad joke. Because you said you only use the tick and not the talk.

4:48Okay, I did say that. People are asking, do you use TikTok? No, I only use the tick. I don't use the talk. All right. Social media. There we go. How many dad jokes do you use? How many people switched off taste radio? All right. Now, I mentioned TikTok because the TikTok shop, which had been in beta testing for the past year and enabled some users of the social media platform to buy products directly via the app, is now accessible to all of TikTok's 150 million U.S.-based users. This is big news, obviously. Even in beta, the shop generated over$350 million in in-app revenue last year, as reported by Forbes.

5:31And our very own Shauna Golden reported on all this news for BevNet and Nosh. I don't think it's a stretch for me to say I am not a regular user of TikTok. I probably will never buy anything off TikTok. Tip-top? Tip-top. Yeah, tip-top. All right. I am not a regular user of TikTok. This is getting better and better. All right. I don't use the TikTok. Clearly, this is an important platform and potentially an important... Especially to you. Yeah. ...revenue channel. I don't think they're looking for you to buy anything on TikTok. But like, you know, this has been a question for a lot of folks is, okay, great.

6:09You have 100 ,000 followers on TikTok. Great. You have all these dance videos on TikTok. Great. Is it actually generating revenue? And now it feels like this is just literally a click away from generating revenue. And how much, though? So I wonder, I mean, for Jackie and John, who are regular users. I buy everything on there. Well, I know you wouldn't. Obviously, he's being facetious. Another word that I haven't used in a long time. I did just have a TikTok shop business idea, though, for BevNet. Oh, yeah. What is it? We're going to go on the Alibaba. I got to check the tag on your shirt real quick and figure out where they make those.

6:43But we're going to get the blue shirt. And when we have the Taste Radio Reels, we're going to sell the blue shirt. It's just like the Arsenal and United videos when they're selling this shirt. Just the Ray Latif model. The Ray Blue shirt. It's will-proof and looks perfect at a Morton Steakhouse. Oh, we're crying out loud. You never have to iron it. You can get a whole closet full for the price of one. anyway jackie i mean how much do you how much do you think this is gonna change your shirt how much do you think it's gonna change your i guess social media experience particularly on tiktok yeah i don't know if i'll be buying anything anytime soon i know like instagram does this too and i don't know how like frequently people buy things through instagram i think like through ads and such when it's very targeted and people click on those to buy but i don't know if just scrolling through your feed and you're not like in a position to buy or thinking about buying that you do it.

7:42I think you've done it. Yeah. So, you know, Mike might be buying stuff. I think also like they have the whole shopping part of the app now, too. So you can go there specifically if you're looking to shop. So I think the more that's curated to what exactly you're looking for, for example, you're going to Amazon and it's showing you what you might be interested in. Like that might be a useful tool. I think Instagram's retargeting is phenomenal. You don't get like, if you go searching for something on the internet, on your phone, the next thing you know, you've got like 10, 15, 20 of those kinds of companies coming at you on Instagram.

8:21And some of them just end up being interesting. You learn about new ones. So I think there's definitely at least good awareness building that's happening there. If not great transacting as well. I know that I've bought from that. So I think it's just, I don't know, like it's going to be weird if all you see are ads yeah content that's basically an ad right i mean i think it just is getting worse though yeah i mean some of it like i don't know i see tons of like creators that have like hex clad pans and their stuff and it's fun they're cooking people you know cooking like creators but some of it's just getting kind of silly you know speaking of silly they change the interface so when you swipe to see someone's profile you see more videos from them it goes to an ad now you have to actually click the tiny name to see the rest of their videos.

9:12So they're definitely trying to figure out ways to get you to do, like they're changing the behavior to get you into ads now, which I think is a bad strategy. Yeah. And I think to your point, Instagram has it on lock as far as the retargeting and knowing exactly what you want. Whereas I think TikTok still is trying to figure everything out. So when I go to my feed, I'm not really seeing anything I'd want to buy yet, but I think they're probably going to get there eventually. I like the stereotyping of the ads though. I keep seeing car wash towels. Like a ShamWow? It's like if you wash your car, which admittedly don't really do very often.

9:52It's some towel. You just like drag it on your car so there's no streaks.

10:01I'll get you for that. It also shows me wall mount TV brackets and then a real lot of, I think it's Snake River Meats. I did use a power washer that John got on TikTok. Now, John, don't con me. Yeah, I mean, I'm getting targeted with beard trimming tools, so I think it's a little bit off right now. On TikTok? Yes. I'm just shaking my head here. I'm getting those on Instagram. Maybe they have us flip-flop. Yeah, I think so. Something's going on. You know what? That'd be kind of fun, actually, is to show interest in just random things that have nothing to do or no interest, no real value in your life and see what comes back.

10:45See if they're actually retargeting. You mess up the algorithm. Yeah, but the algorithm is also kind of, in my opinion, BS, because I'm sure these apps are listening. It's listening, man. Well, you can just talk into your phone and it will know that you were talking about something. We're also all skewing it because we're looking at all these brands for work, right? So we're probably looking at some brands that skew really young or old or whatever or male oriented. I don't know. Maybe you look up some energy drinks and now it's like, oh, yeah, Jackie needs beard. When you were looking for your bass, you know that Instagram was all over you about buying the bass.

11:19Yes. All different brands of basses were coming at you, etc. Same with me and guitars or any kind of guitar equipment. They're super dialed in. So it's super relevant there. TikTok will figure it out. Did we talk about this? You slapped the bass? I am learning to slap the bass. Wow. Very cool. Electric bass. Yep. Yeah. Not the double bass. Got herself a P bass. Very cool. Is this like, so you can be in a band or just for fun? For now, for fun. We'll see if I get that good, but that would be cool. Plenty of bands in San Diego I could, you know, jump on. Who was your favorite bass player? Esperanza Spalding.

11:51Esperanza Spalding. Not familiar with that artist, but I will look her up. Just going back to TikTok for a second. You know, I feel like if this is accurate, and this is reported by Insider and included in the article that Shauna wrote, the social media giant TikTok currently takes a 5 % commission fee from merchants, which feels pretty affordable. I mean, it feels like Amazon probably takes a lot more than that per sale. So if that holds, it'll probably change. But if that holds, it feels like, I mean, if you can sell a good amount of stuff, you're doing pretty well. And it doesn't feel like TikTok is ripping you off.

12:29Yeah. And I know like some brands have completely transitioned their D to C to just Amazon. So if they could start selling on TikTok and save some money, I mean, it could be a really great channel for a brand that has a great audience there. Now we just got to get ready to set up a TikTok account. It also sounds like it's early days there, too, because if they're showing you beard trimming ads, then that probably means there are fewer advertisers and their targeting isn't that great yet. So maybe there's a deal to be had there. Yeah. Get in early. Yeah. Now, Jackie, you weren't able to attend Expo East, but I know you've been following along on BevNet and Nosh, all the news and coverage from the events.

13:10I'm sure you saw that Just Iced Tea, the brand that was born out of Eat the Change, a company founded by Seth Goldman, Barry Nailbuff, and your friend Spike Mendelsohn, John Craven, he's your friend, right? Sure. He's a chill dude. has introduced new cans. And it's interesting because just iced tea, which is essentially the, I don't know, the new honest tea. I don't recall ever seeing honesty in cans. But I like this. I like this sort of going after Lipton in so many ways. I mean, iced tea in a can, horribly unsuccessful. I mean, as evidenced by Arizona iced tea. No. Yeah, no, I mean, it's like, seems sort of like an obvious place for an upstart tea company to play right now.

14:01So excited to see how that does for them. I want to see the looks on our faces when you said that canned iced tea was horribly unsuccessful. I was like, what? Yeah, I was like, what's going on here? I was like, wracking my brain. I joke at that because someone said to me like, ooh, tea in a can. That's a new thing. And I'm like, have you never seen a can of Arizona? Pretty sure that's been around since basically the beginning of RTD iced tea, you know. But I do feel like it speaks to the opportunity they see in convenience and also in mass. But in convenience in particular, forever, people have been saying that consumers are trading up in convenience and looking for better for you options.

14:43And this canned option just gives them, I think, a real runway in C stores. Yeah, I mean, I think it gives them some runway in many places where, you know, just glass isn't a good fit. And, you know, there's a couple of upstart like RTD tea brands out there like Hay Day, you know, that are going into cans that will certainly benefit from having Just Ice Tea in a can. And it also, I think to me, just sends a message that clearly they're trying to go far and wide with Just Ice-T and not go on the sort of honest tea trajectory in terms of time. So pretty exciting to see that. But I think those cans are launching in early 2024, they said.

15:27So it'll be a little while before we see the finished product. But yeah, they look really cool. I mean, I like how they, you know, I don't know if they'll stick with this for the final, but like the cans were painted black, like on the top. and everything, which had a really slick standout look. Now, along with the announcement that Just Iced Tea will be available in cans, Eat the Change is announcing, or sort of, I guess they didn't announce, but they are letting go of their mushroom jerky line. The mushroom jerky was their inaugural product. And it's interesting because they were using mushrooms as an ingredient that they could point to as being a sustainable ingredient for CPG.

16:06and now it's interesting. I wonder if the entire sort of focus or positioning of Eat the Change is evolving to something else. Seth Goldman did say that they are keeping the carrot chews, which are essentially just chewy gummies made out of carrots. And I think they're particularly focused on kids for that line. Yeah, they've redone the branding too. They're upping the whole cosmic chews angle on it. Yeah, in the article on BevNet, Seth said that he remains confident in its Cosmic Carrot Chews brand, which, as you mentioned, Mike, did introduce new packaging. But, you know, kids' products, you know, they've had...

16:47They're tough. They're tough. Entrepreneurial kids' products, not a great track record. We always go, yeah, we talk about a kid's product. It's definitely tough. I mean, obviously, Seth and Barry built one of the most successful kids' brands and Honest Kids, but... The only product line that Coca-Cola is keeping from the Honest brand. Yeah. And I mean, look, you know, they also started Eat the Change before Coke decided to end Honest Tea. So I assume the plan and vision from when they started versus, you know, the vision plan today is just wildly different. I mean, I would imagine that there's a pretty good chance that they'll just be a beverage company.

17:32I mean, simply because the opportunity for RTDT is pretty massive and proven. And, you know, what they're doing with fruit chews is a totally different animal, which at some point, you know, if they go to raise money, it's like they have this one thing that's got a massive opportunity and growing fast. And another thing that is just on its own, you know, trajectory that I could see that just kind of not making the cut, you know, or just being something that's on the back burner. later, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's a bunch of mushroom jerky now. There's a bunch of kids snack brands out there.

18:08There's a lot of competition and it's a little bit harder to differentiate in that space specifically for kids. Well, and those are categories like mushroom jerky. I mean, it's obviously something that's on trend and has potential, but it's not like, we kind of don't really know what the market potential is for that, right? Is that a billion category i mean maybe someday but probably not anytime super soon yeah i know mushrooms are trendy why not spin that off why not spin off the fruit snacks i mean they're different production lines yes you've got the branding you'd have to sort of lose the eat the change piece but well they kind of did though they did or did the reverse like they basically spun off the tea you know right like it's not eat the change tea well right that would be weird right eat the change That doesn't sound right.

18:56Just chew on it. Yeah, don't drink it. But, Jack, you mentioned that there's a lot of entrepreneurial kid snack brands out there. And just, again, I'm trying to think of ones that have been wildly successful. And by wildly successful, I mean, you know, turned into$50,$100 million brands. And I just can't think of many. Some people might say, oh, what about, you know, Once Upon a Farm? And as John pointed out, Once Upon a Farm seems like more of a baby food brand or a toddler brand more than it does a kid's brand. I mean, or, you know, things like we talked about Uncrustables last time. I mean, that's kind of quasi, you know, snack-ish, I guess.

19:30I don't know. Yeah, I feel like brands have found success in like line extensions or additional SKUs for kids rather than launching a whole platform for kids. Like Annie's launched, you know, they have mac and cheese, they have fruit chews, they have the little bunny cheese crackers. Also, Perfect Bar has their bars for kids. So it seems to be a lot easier to go into that category when you already have an established product that like parents are already eating. And then they can then pass on to their kids because they trust the brand. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think it's like, you know, you need almost like a graduation strategy from these.

20:06And if you have an existing brand or I don't know, the Annie's, it's like mac and cheese. Fine. Just don't eat the farm shapes anymore. You know, it's really interesting. We're talking about it. I mean, they taste the same way. Shocked, right? It's really interesting that we're talking about that because today, Once Upon a Farm announced that it is moving beyond just baby food to introduce a new line of refrigerated oat bars. And they are trying, as you guys mentioned, to stay relevant among the consumers that had been eating its baby food products. The bars are 4.5 ounces each and they're priced at$2.79 each or about$9.50 for a five-pack box.

20:42They're going to be launching in Target and Wegmans this month, about 40 % fruits and vegetables per bar. Who's the CEO or former CEO of Annie's that brought it to its acquisition? John Foraker. Who's the CEO of Once Upon a Farm? John Foraker. How about that? Well, how about the, I don't know if you've seen the new. They got the same name? You just sounded like Forrest Gump when you said that. They got the same name? I don't know if you've seen the new Capital One Venture Card commercials. Oh, I have, yes. Jennifer Garner's in, but they're now like promoting her use of the Capital One Venture card at Once Upon a Farm, which also kind of made me wonder, like, who's paying for that commercial?

21:25Is she getting paid to be a spokesperson to plug her? To be honest with you, though. That's awesome publicity. I did see. So John Foraker, and I'm forgetting, is it Cassandra from Once Upon a Farm, the co-founder? they were both in the ad as well kind of sitting at a round table like this and just like nodding as jennifer garner's talking and i'm like this is slightly awkward but i mean look i you know that's a better use of her as you know celebrity and business owner than some of the others that it's just like you know she's like talking head you know maybe it's just more in beverages that you don't see a lot of kids brands work i i just saw suja suja launched a new kids line and suja obviously being the brand of cold press juices.

22:08Don't know, you know, how many parents are going to buy, say a three,$4 bottle of juice for their kids. You know, it's at Whole Foods, so maybe a few folks, but it just seems like kind of an uphill battle. And then frankly, I mean, we've seen a lot of better for you soda or water plays directed to or positioned for kids. And the price points are just frankly outrageous. You're not going to find many, if any, parents to pay three,$4 for a 10 ounce can of liquid for their kid. And what stops an adult from, you know, sharing their adult beverage that's like a juice? Like what's a huge difference?

22:46I'm glad you clarified a juice. Yes, a juice, a non-alcoholic juice. What stops a parent from sharing that with their kid? You know, if you get like a larger bottle and you pour a little out for your child, you know, you could do that too instead of buying a whole nother bottle that they're probably not gonna fish or possibly not like. Why didn't I ever do that? This still sounds like alcohol. Let me pour you some, kid. Here you go, a little scotch. I'll help you sleep. Have a sip off Uncle Ray's Manhattan here. Speaking of which, I had a great Manhattan at the Chase Sapphire Lounge in Boston.

23:16Check it out, folks. They just paid me$10 ,000 for that. Ray Latif was not paid. No, I was not paid for that. I don't expect we'll see St. James introducing a kid's product anytime soon. St. James, a brand of organic green tea launched by one of the co-founders of Arizona Tea. I really like this brand. Every time I see it in our cooler, I pick it up. And it is packaged in this 16.9 ounce Tetra Pak. And, you know, I love holding a Tetra Pak in my hand. Tetra Pak choir. Love, love holding a Tetra Pak in my hand. I do want to thank our presenting sponsor this episode. How about it? It's Tetra Pak, the pioneering packaging solutions company that provides safe, innovative, and environmentally sound products that each day meet the needs of hundreds of millions of people around the world.

24:08Learn more at tetrapack.com. Okay, that's not a Tetra Pak. That is in a 16 fluid ounce glass bottle. A Boston Round, Ray. A Boston Round. I never worked in a beverage company. Apparently, John did. Nope. Just knows all the bottles. I've seen a lot of packages. How many people have asked to hire you as a consultant for their beverage company? I don't know if they've... To consult on what? Don't pretend you don't know what we're talking about. You're the expert. You just ask him and he answers the question for free. That is true. That's what happens. I get more of a, hey, we're making an advisory board sort of thing.

24:49Ah, I see. Okay. No, I cannot do that. And you're like, no, I'll just advise you. Yeah, I like free advice all you want. There you go. All right, there you go. Hit them up. All I can do. Back to the Boston round. Yes. Yeah. In my hands, I have pick-me-up beauty water. And I think this Boston Round is definitely becoming a trend for these elixir-type beverages that are trying to come off as something that's very functional and craft. Beautiful bottle. Yes, clear bottle. Yeah, clear bottle. So you can see the liquid. It's obviously orange, which is the mango turmeric. And this is potion number two.

25:26And the whole idea of this beauty water is it has CBD in it. and it also has hyaluronic acid, which is in a lot of beauty products as far as topical beauty products. And you're seeing it pop up more and more in edible products and beverages. So they have this one. They also have - When you say edible products, do you mean like CBD bites or like food? Food. So some food products are including that in the food product as well as in beverages. Getting big Dirty Lemon vibes. Yeah. Dirty Lemon. It does have that. Dirty Lemon was packaged in plastic bottles. It was plastic, yeah. It was like a plastic Boston Round.