True Or False? Taylor Foxman Has All The Answers.

0:10Hello friends, I'm Ray Latif and you're listening to the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage, Taste Radio. This episode features an interview with Taylor Foxman, the founder and CEO of beverage advisory firm, The Industry Collective. Straight talk can be hard to come by. Speak with Taylor Foxman, however, and the veteran beverage executive and industry advisor will give you the unvarnished truth, or in the case of this episode, declare something an outright falsehood. Taylor has over a decade of experience in beverage, alcohol, and beyond, having worked with globally recognized wine, beer, and spirit companies, including Pernod Ricard and Grupo Campare.

0:56She's the founder and CEO of the Industry Collective, a leading beverage and cannabis advisory firm, and is also a partner with Aletheia Ventures and an associate partner at MacArthur Capital. I recently sat down with Taylor for a conversation framed as a series of true or false questions, including those about the value of great taste, the impact of bad PR, the sober curious movement, the future of cannabis beverages, and Gen Z consumers' relationship with alcoholic drinks.

1:29Hey folks, it's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now, I'm honored to be sitting down with Taylor Foxman, the founder and CEO of The Industry Collective. Taylor, great to see you. Thank you, Ray, for having me on. This has been on my bucket list for, can't even tell you how long. So anyway, I'm very excited. I even put my hair down. I'm on video. This is like hell freezes over for me. But for Ray and for BevNet, I'm excited. So thank you for the opportunity in advance. I really appreciate it. Well, an interview with you has been on our bucket list as well. So I'm really happy that we made this happen.

2:01You're based in New York in a bright room. It looks like an office, but is this your house doubled as an office? House is a stretch, but yes, this is my apartment. I'm in my mid-30s, and New York living is this, which is I still am in an apartment with no doors, minus a closet and a bathroom. So my husband configured my office space, and it's a loft-like space. And so he's configured it in a way where I do sit by the window. So I feel like I have some outdoor, you know, some sense of what's happening outside. But in reality, I've been working from home since the business. I'm still almost five years.

2:40But I have my dog, Miss Linda, who's sitting behind me. And that's that's she's employee number one. Impressive. I mean, it is true. COVID era or otherwise, you can build a pretty significantly sized business from your home. And you have done just that. A very well-respected business at that. You and I have known each other for some time, beginning with my work at BevNet and then continuing on through Taste Radio. I've worked with a number of your clients, interviewed a number of your clients for the show. I'm sure that listeners know who Taylor Foxman is, but for the two that don't, tell us a bit about yourself.

3:18Sure. You know, my background is all things beverage. I've been in the space since I was 19. I jokingly say that I was paid in vodka bottles, but I was. I started working for Svedka as an intern when I was in college, postponed a master's at USC in California, and started working on the agency side for Pernod Ricard when I was 21. I've been in New York for 15 years, albeit I still don't see myself as a New Yorker. All of the collective members are like, you're definitely a New Yorker. You've been here for that long. And I was like, eh, I still feel like an outsider. I've been in New York for 15 years and spent the crux of my career working for mostly the C-suite of a lot of the largest global alcohol companies in the world, including Grupo Campari, Stoli Group, Pernod Ricard on enough for almost 10 years, Boston Beer, Patron, Mass Jägermeister.

4:09I kind of just raised my hand. I started actually in public relations and communications, which is when I met you, Ray, and then just wanted to learn more. And so I got into sales strategy and engagement, corporate social responsibility, venture capital. And then about five years ago, through the executive team at Patron, I got pulled into cannabis. And I was part of kind of this first ever like corporate cannabis holding company, as to which it was me, a lot of the executive team behind Patron, Beau Wrigley, Wrigley Gum, and a few people from Walgreens at a C-suite level and got pulled into a huge SPAC M &A deal when I was 28 or 29 in cannabis.

4:50And the collective started right around then. So I had two full-time jobs for many years where originally I just got connected to founders of originally early stage beverage companies here in the U.S. through my network. So through big banks and VCs and family offices and talent agencies. And they all just said, Taylor can help. So I took it on. I formed LLC almost five years ago, which is now an S Corp. And I started advising companies like Beatbox Beverage and Speakeasy Co. and brands that I'm still with almost five years later, you know, in and around, I think even pre-COVID, which is crazy.

5:31And back ended a very big business for myself. So had a lot of jobs, had two jobs, as I said, for over two years, almost three, I believe. And in the last two years alone, through referral. So no decks, no business card, very outdated website. I'm sorry for anyone who has ever looked at my website. My banking husband did it a long time ago. All through referral in the last two years alone, the business has gone from me advising five early stage beverage companies here in the United States to now 80 CEOs all over the world. You seem to touch every aspect of the beverage industry and beyond from finance to marketing to PR to advisement.

6:17I assume you even mess around with formulation from time to time. And you're also known as a pitch slam judge, that of the cocktail showdown, BevNet's cocktail showdown, where you joined us as a judge last year during BevNet Live winter 2023. Thank you for that opportunity. That was very fun. Very, very fun. It was very fun. Yeah, the winner of that competition, Ponyboy Slings, pretty amazing brand. And just excited to have you as a part of that. So thank you again. It was a really great opportunity. It was so cool to see kind of that wave of emerging brands and just, you know, see the innovation that's out there and the excitement around the category.

6:56And, you know, you bring those people together. So thank you for the opportunity. I really appreciated it. I appreciate you saying that and hope to have you back if we can get you back. I love it. So, you know, I mentioned before we hopped on the mics that I wanted to frame this conversation a little different than what I normally do and do kind of a true or false with Taylor Foxman segment here on Taste Radio. So again, you know, you have such a broad experience in this industry and you've touched so many aspects of how great brands are built. And so I think this is not necessarily a hard and fast, true or false, but an opinion-based one.

7:42And I think someone with the experience that you have, I think it's probably closer to a hard and fast truth than an opinion-based one. But let's start. Okay. I'm ready. Easy one. Easy one to me, I think. I think. Having a great tasting product is the most important factor for success in the beverage industry. True or false? False. I do not think actually taste matters as much as people think. In my apartment, we have a swap in, swap out rule. So I can only bring things in if I get something out the door. I still live in New York City. So I have a hard time bringing in a lot of product at this point in the apartment.

8:17I even have a storage locker downstairs that my husband made for me. I think there are so many factors that go into like what makes a brand grow and successful. And taste is important. Look, like if you have a product that has crappy taste, no offense, I don't know how to say this in a better way. Like at the end of the day, it's a non-starter for anyone, right? Like distributors aren't going to take you on if you have a product that doesn't taste good. Investors won't give you money if you have a product that won't taste good. So in the context, it matters. Is it kind of the leading non-starter?

8:49In my opinion, not necessarily at all. I think there has to be something, maybe it's like, you know, something proprietary, whether it's an IP, whether it's the target demographic that you've just nailed. It has to be something else. And I think taste factors into it, but it's not prior to number one, I think, for most of the stakeholders that matter to these people at this point. Bad PR is better than no PR, true or false? False. It's hard to get yourself out of bad PR. I did crisis communication for too many years that I'd like to admit. I do think putting yourself into the equation of polarizing topics is worthwhile.

9:29For example, when I was involved with Jim Cook for Boston Beer, I helped Jim with an op-ed for the New York Times. And he wanted to do a story about, you know, the state of the craft beer industry. And he said to me, Dale, I have a lot of thoughts. they're fairly polarizing, but I think we should do. And it was right before Donald Trump became president. And I was like, there's no way in heck that we're getting an op-ed in the New York Times right now. Like, are you kidding me about kind of like an evergreen time? I mean, there were things swirling in the craft beer industry, but it was not, you know, mission critical topic number one in the United States.

10:03And we reached out to Clay Risen, who's an op-ed editor for the Times, and we got approved. And we actually had the story written in the Times right before, you know, Trump became president and it was on the state of the craft beer industry. And virtually Jim's take and our take was when you're grabbing craft beer from a shelf, just understand that you may think it's craft. It's not. It's probably one of the larger five conglomerates. That was risky doing that. We went into it understanding that we would get harsh feedback and criticism, just given people's thoughts and stance on Boston beer at that point in time.

10:39But we did it because we thought that there would be positive outcomes regardless, right? So we would kind of take the good and the bad. I think it's very hard to backpedal from bad press, especially if you know in advance that's coming. I would do everything I can to try to mitigate it in advance to see a story, if you can, prior to being written, to have it, you know, if you, if possible, do some form of recording or written transcribed Q &A, just ways to just, again, mitigate the chances that something comes out that you had no idea. It's very hard to go back from that. Oh, you would know. As you mentioned, you've been doing this for a long time.

11:20I would know. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get to another truth or true or false here. I was about to say truth or dare. We're past those days, aren't we? Well, it's too early in the day to start drinking and then get into truth. Maybe next time when you're in New York City, we'll do a truth or there. Okay. I'm going to hold you to that Taylor. All right. True or false. You would invest in a brand that you don't use in your own personal life or have a personal connection to true or false. Oh, I love this one. Yeah. A hundred percent. There are a lot of brands that I work with that if you even go back to like the taste, right?

11:55So when I get approached, all the business has been 90 % of the business actually been referral, which is really cool. And I'm super grateful for that, saving a lot of money on marketing. Every time that I get an inbound from a partner, I always have to find that unique value proposition, right? We talked a little bit earlier, like what is unique about this company? I cannot take something on if I don't feel there's something uniquely substantially different. However, in terms of taste of a product, I don't always have to like the product, but I have to believe that there's an audience that does.

12:31And if I can't, I can't move forward with it. So even on the investment side, I work closely with, I don't know how many venture capital firms at this point. I believe that it is important that you believe that there is someone who can drink the product. I have seen, and I am part of groups where they may not necessarily agree that they like the liquid, but we have to believe that there is an audience for it. Curveball coming. Maybe not. true or false below deck mediterranean is your favorite reality tv show it was i mean i still watch it every week i think that the guests the quality of the guests have gone down so considerably it used to be you would watch it and they would walk down that little deck and you just know chaos is going to ensue you know whether they have like these big hats or they're like influencers or they're fitness instructors so i was always like all right what drama is going to happen on this boat and my dad for context by day my dad is a surgeon and by night he's a sailor so i've grown up on various types of melgises and j105s and catamarans and boats all across the world so i like it because of that and because of the drama i think i don't know if you watch it i still enjoy the show but i think the drama has has gone down notably because i think the guests are just calmer.

13:52Maybe they don't drink as much. I don't know. But I'm not as entertained as I used to be, unfortunately. Okay. So it's a false for you. It's a false. It's a false. I would have thought that you would have had some sort of contact with one of the characters on the show. I call it characters. One of the people on the show. I may. I may have something to do with one of them, perhaps. Okay. Well, there was an alcoholic coconut water brand that one of the actors on the show. I don't know what to call them. The people on the show. I said character, said actor. Yes. Her name is Aisha Scott. It's a mix.

14:25It's a mix, right? Yeah. Okay. So you may be advising a member on the show is what you're saying. I may be in some discussions with someone on the show who's looking for some, you know, brands that they could align with strategically. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. Mysterious, but very interesting. Yeah. Okay. The next three truths or falses are related. Okay. First one is moderation is the new sober curious. True or false? True. I think that's the direction that we're going. I think it's, look, I could go on about this for a very long time. I did a story in Rolling Stone kind of around this topic, like headwinds for the spirits industry and how it kind of speaks to the larger moment in time that we're in, which is, I feel like we're at a notable inflection point.

15:15I don't think this is all or nothing game. I think there are so many articles that are out there right now talking about, are we going into prohibition or blah, blah, blah. I don't see that happening. What I do believe is that people are, and I'm curious your thoughts, Ray, but I think people are getting smarter. I think there's more competition and I think there's less money to be spent on X products, right? So I think as part of that, yes, I think moderation plays a notable role. I think people are just more mindful. I think they still, for the most part, want to enjoy, and again, some people don't want to drink at all, and that's totally fine.

15:50And that is a huge part of the consumer base at this point. I don't know exactly the percentage who don't drink at all, but I do know that people are incorporating traditional beverages, non-alcoholic beverages, functional beverages across the board because they want to incorporate, I guess, more mindful drinking patterns and consumption habits or whatever. They want to incorporate more mindful drinking behaviors. So I think moderation is here to stay. I don't see us getting into the kind of overconsumption mode that we were in. I think like at the height of COVID, I think people are, you know, they want to drink, they just want to drink better and maybe drink a little bit less and have other options.

16:28I don't know what you think, but that's kind of my stance on it. Yeah, I've definitely seen that. I think people in my age group, I see having a beer and then two seltzer waters or two glasses of wine and a seltzer water. And it's not three alcoholic beverages as their drinks of the night. I mean, it's happening less and less and less. And a lot of people are saying the same things. It's right. I have other responsibilities. I don't want to wake up tired. I don't want, certainly don't want to wake up with a hangover. And so, you know, instead of having no drinks, they may have one or two, but then supplement it with water or some sort of other beverage in the meantime.

17:07The thing I don't see changing as much, and this is the next true or false, is Gen Z consumers consuming more alcohol. But true or false, Gen Z consumers will consume more alcohol as they get older. I don't think so. False. False. Okay. No. Why is that? Well, you know, I've been reading a lot of research. I talked to a lot of people that are much more on the data side of things. I'm not. It's just, you know, everything I say is just based on what I hear and what I see through my network and my collective. One interesting fact was around, you know, the, when they queried that demo, they said, well, you know, during COVID, I didn't have the opportunity to go out and drink with my friends or, so even just like kind of the situation as to which a lot of these people were in, like kind of, I don't know, they just didn't have maybe the same environment that we grew up in, which is, oh, we can go sneak out, see our friends, have drinks, grab something from the cabinet.

18:06I don't know. Like I think COVID played a large factor into it. Another thing that I thought was a really interesting insight is why they're not drinking as much is they saw their parents over consume and they don't want to be in that position. So I thought that was a really interesting insight. And then also just like I grew up in a generation of people where everyone was drinking, you know, maybe some earlier than, you know, legal age to drink. However, that was just part of the culture of when I was growing up, like that was part of what you did when you went out, right? Once you were of legal drinking age.

18:41But if you grow up in an era where you're out with friends and whether it's at a party, at a sporting event, at a dinner, and that's not the norm, I just don't know if there's enough from like a marketing engine perspective to all of a sudden just like change the dynamic and make it this something that that generation will be like, well, you know, now I see that everything, I mean, celebrities have been associated with alcohol now for many, many years, right? So it's not like all of a sudden there's going to be some celebrity that's going to come out that's going to change their mind or some research that all of a sudden alcohol is in fact great for you.

19:13So I don't know. I don't know what it would take. Do you know what I mean? To make that happen when I think this generation is just seeing it from a different lens. They didn't have the same opportunity to necessarily like explore with alcohol the way that I felt like I did when I was growing up. And I don't think they're going to have the same societal pressure. So I'm not sure how that would happen, if I can be honest. Yeah. Well, two follow-ups on that. One, you know, you and I both went to BU. And I think during our respective times at the university, I don't think I knew, I can say this for myself, I don't think I knew anyone who didn't drink, unless they didn't drink for religious reasons.

19:57Everyone else I knew drank, drank alcohol. I didn't either. Same. I think there's a humongous shift change that we've seen. Right. I know plenty of people who are just out of college. I don't know almost anybody who was in college, but plenty of people, including those who work at BevNet, who don't drink alcohol, and they are 24, 25 years old. So that's been a big change. On the other hand, I remember there was a time when Taylor Swift earlier into her career would always talk about how she didn't drink. And then eventually, you know, she started drinking alcohol. Now she's more categorized as a millennial.

20:26Yeah. But yeah, I wonder if people kind of look at that and say, well, I don't have to drink now, but maybe I'll have a glass of wine. Then, you know, as I get older, I can be more responsible about it. But I do think you're right about the fact that some people just don't want to be out of control, don't want to lose their ability to function in a way that they want to function in, you know? And I think too, what I think has been, honestly, the most freeing part, and I'm using the word freeing part about the last, let's say like what, two years, I would say two or three years is, there is no stigma anymore.

20:59Honestly, I don't really care who drinks. I don't care who does drink, who doesn't drink. Everyone can make their own choices about that. What I think has been great is twofold. Like one is optionality. There are so many brands out there right now, which is why I work from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday through Friday. I try to take Friday off. That has failed miserably. My therapist will not be happy with me. But the point is, is like first optionality. I think it's so great that there are so many options out there. There are bigger brands like an athletic that now you, if you want to go and liars, if you want to go to any type of venue, sporting arena, concert, you want to go to a movie theater, whatever, you can find an option.

21:42whether it's water, it's a poppy, it doesn't matter. So that part of the optionality, I think is so exciting because, you know, it's one thing to say, okay, now the stigma is a way, you know, you can have what you want, but there are no options, right? So the fact that there are now options and there is no stigma around anymore, I think it's just very freeing for people, meaning that you could do whatever the heck you want. And I would say, you know, I've cut all dinner meetings because I'm not really drinking as much anymore. I don't drink during the week. I haven't in years. And on the weekends, I, you know, if I want to have a glass of wine or, you know, one drink, but that's really it.

22:20But I just like being able to have options and I like not having to explain myself to your point. And so I think that goes back to the moderation. I think it's just like the last story I did for Rolling Stone was like, choose your own adventure was the title. And I think that is the future. Choose your own adventure with alcohol and be, yeah, I think moderation is going to play a huge factor in that as well. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more.

22:55Right. Part of that new optionality includes cannabis beverages. Now, cannabis beverages aren't necessarily a replacement for a non-alcoholic beverage, but their replacement for alcoholic beverages are then they have become that. So true or false, beverages will eventually become the most consumed form of cannabis. Oh, yes. I also can go on about this for a very long time. We're not going to do a tour of my fridge, but the entire top shelf is all cannabis beverages. We should do a follow-up. We should do something that teases this episode where we do go through your fridge. We'll do that on TikTok or Instagram or something.

23:40I would love to do that. And you could do my bar cart, which is extended halfway into my living room in this one room that has no doors. Again, only point of contention with my husband, knock on wood. I sat down with one of the largest, so I work as a partner of record for all the global corporate strategics, right? Ray, that's where I came from. So I work with all the big corporate M &A groups in-house. What are you seeing? Who should we invest in? Who should we partner with, right? And I was sitting down with one of the largest top three global wine and spirit companies in the world a few months ago at their offices.

24:13And they said, oh, we think our headwinds are this, this, this, this, this. I said, I pulled out pixelated cannabis and a cannabis beverage. And I said, no, your biggest headwind will be, in my opinion, cannabis beverages. I think that subcategory within cannabis has evolved so quickly. I am just wildly impressed with what they've been able to do, some of these brands. When you think about it, you now have, and I don't need to go into names of brands per se, but forget about the brand names. You have companies that are creating bottles that look like Patron bottles, frosted bottles that are directly shipped to your door.

24:54Okay. No ID needed, direct to consumer that are flavorless, calorie-less, and you have two milligrams, five milligrams of THC per serving. I'm just using this as an example that you can make a cannabis lemonade or whatever you want, whatever drink you want. You have it. Same similar effect of like, you know, you feel good. You feel giddy. You feel happy. Not everyone has the same, you know, response to cannabis. I'm not making that claim. But a lot of people do have a nice kind of relaxed high from it. And then you wake up the next day. Calorieless, flavorless, no hangover. Direct to consumer.

25:32I think that when the cannabis beverage thing started, there was a lot of regulatory hurdles. And there still are, right? On the regulatory side of cannabis, it is still the wild, wild west. Don't get me wrong. But I think in the last year or two alone, the innovation that they've been able to do in the category with being able to ship to consumers, make things that are flavorless, calorie-less, flavorful, you know, in formats like an RTD or an RTS format, I am just so bullish on this. I'm a consumer of the category. I think it's great. I don't see this like being the only headwind that a spirits company has right now.

26:10But if I were a spirits company, I would be closely watching the category because they're also making it into retail as well as we speak. All right. A big truth, a big true from Taylor about cannabis beverages, a big true. Big true, big true. Switching gears to investment, entrepreneurs need to be able to present well. and speak articulately to raise money, true or false? True, with a little bit more added to that. I think fundraising is a full-time job. There was someone that said to me that there should be someone who's like a CEO of the business and then like president of fundraising or something.