Two Brands, One Win. What Makes Collaborations Work?

0:10Hello, dear friends, and thanks for tuning in to Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio. And with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. Mike, is that a five o 'clock shadow? Are you trying to grow a beard for the events? Yeah, that's it, Ray. Which is it? Both. Wait, what? It's five o 'clock shadows. That's how it starts. A beard starts with five o 'clock shadow. Okay, so you're trying to grow a beard for the events. No, I just haven't shaved in a couple of days.

0:45Isn't there like a no shave November or something? Isn't that a thing? That's Movember, yeah. Movember? These are like playoff beards. You know, you grow a playoff beard until your playoffs are done. And I think you should go for it. Okay. When you started at BevNet, you had a beard. I did. I had, yeah, I definitely had more facial hair then. You had a beard. Just saying. Civil War style beard. Yeah. John, you had a little goatee going for a while and then - Never had a goatee. Have you ever had facial hair? For like a week. Right now. Yeah. for like a week. Yeah, it's about as long as it can go.

1:18Why are we talking about this? No one needs... We're just... People are curious. We're wasting time off here. We're wasting tape. No one wants it. Because anytime you talk about facial hair on men, either you have it or you don't. And if you don't, you get uncomfortable talking about it. Yeah, that's weird. Case in point. Case is in point. No, I'm just doing the listeners a favor and just do some weird segue to talk about BevNet Live. Or we can talk about my facial hair. You know? We're not going there. Okay. Jackie, I don't know if you'd look good with a beard. No offense. But with the power of AI, we can see.

1:50Yeah, I want to see it. Stop, stop. No AI. Consider it done, Jackie. AI has jumped a shark and then some. Although Jeff Bezos apparently has a, he's the CEO of a new AI company. That's not for this podcast. Anyway. Definitely why people are listening. Yeah. So great news for BevNet Live. The co-founders of Poppy, the brand that earlier this year was sold to PepsiCo for$1.95 billion. are going to be on stage at BevNet Live in, what is it now? We're three weeks away? Yeah. Very, very cool stuff. Allison and Steven Ellsworth, who were first on stage at BevNet Live in 2016 as the co-founders of Mother Beverage, which evolved into Poppy, will be speaking about advice on how they grew the business, brought in talent, and helped define the modern soda category.

2:42Also, how they took over TikTok and what they'd do differently if they had a chance. Amazing stuff. Less than 10 years going from onstage at BevNet Live, winning the New Beverage Showdown, selling your company for$1.9 billion. And now, Allison was most recently a guest shark on Shark Tank. So pretty amazing stuff. Speaking of Shark Tank, she was the guest judge when Nikki Seaman, who was the founder and CEO of Freestyle Snacks, which makes pouch package pickles and olives. She was recently on the show and Allison was the one shark who bought into her deal. She decided to invest$300 ,000 in Freestyle Snacks for an 11 % equity stake in the company.

3:27So I hope she talks about that when she's on stage. This talk is going to be awesome. Allison is one of those people who you walk up to her and she's like, copy my playbook and tells you how they've done it all. And this is the talk everybody's been waiting for, Ray. Yes, it is. It's on day one of the event. It's going to happen at 10, 10 a.m. Remember 10, 10, 10, 10 win? You're a New York guy. You remember growing up. Sure, Ray. Yeah. Okay. 10, 10 a.m. So right after the New Beverage Showdown, right after the semifinal round of the New Beverage Showdown. Oh, wow. Is where we're going to hear from Allison and Steven.

3:58Can I stay up on stage? You can't stay up on stage. Mike is alluding to the fact that he is a judge for the New Beverage Showdown with his pen of judgment. Do you already have it? No. I'll anoint it on the day of and it's like we got the super friends of uh content of bevnet cpg media contests here because john craven will be in the finals judging you're hosting of course and we got jackie is going to be a judge for the nosh live pitch slam which is really really exciting this is your first time as a judge for the nosh pitch slam right yeah first time for nosh i've done the the showdown in the past so i'm excited i love food brands so it'll be cool yeah i am really excited as well.

4:34I'm also really, really excited to hear from a speaker that is from a company that I think is kind of under the radar in a weird way for emerging food and beverage brands. That's CVS. Remember you could go to CVS and go buy a carton of Barbaro Reds? You used to be able to. That was huge when CVS shut down their cigarettes. I was very proud of it. It was the right thing for them to do. But you go in there, you're going to go in there for a toothbrush, some Pepto-Bismol, Carton of Marlboro, and now you're going in there. It must have been an upsetting day for you, Ray. You know, after some Pepto, you got to brush those teeth, John.

5:10You know, you don't want all that pink film on your front teeth. Oh my God. No, I mean, CVS has definitely evolved. They went from that sort of convenience drugstore kind of vibe, and now they're very much focused on wellness, health, et cetera. In fact, In fact, the parent company is called CVS Health now. And so Lauren Castro, who is the lead director and category manager for Healthy Consumables and Grocery, will be speaking at NOSH Live. Very exciting stuff. I'm assuming she's going to reveal the playbook for CVS on how they select emerging and new better-for-you brands because they have dozens of new products on the food and beverage side, which are intended to help people's health via functional ingredients or just lower calorie, lower sugar optionality.

6:04Yeah, I feel like they're just increasing the footprint for Better For You brands within the store. I know that they started with just, you know, like the checkout line and a little area there and it's expanding into their grocery aisle. So it's really cool to see that they're investing in these brands and that they believe in Better For You. Yeah. I mean, they have these brands in their traditional aisles, in their traditional snack and beverage aisles. And then they also have carved out parts of the store, which are specific to Better For You snacks, not necessarily beverages. I haven't really seen them carve out that kind of space, but definitely every single time I go into CVS, I see brands that I didn't expect to see there or actually haven't seen at all, which is awesome.

6:45I think they've also done a pretty good job of trying to reduce the six yards of receipt paper receipt used to get when we checked out. Dude, I don't understand. What is wrong with people? Why do they do that? It's called an app. It's called an app. You don't need that long sheet of paper anymore. Just to get the one coupon that you actually want. You know, the one that's like five bucks off next time. Folks, if you want to frustrate me, if you come to Nosh Live and you really want to stick a needle in my back, just be like, hey, Ray, look at all the coupons I got from CVS and hold up your six foot long receipt.

7:14I've got a blue raspberry coupon from CVS. I'll need like a six day cool off period. I can't stand it. Stop people. Stop with the CVS receipts, please. Actually, I'm going to ask Lauren when I see her at Nosh Live and be like, look, for the love of all the trees in the Pacific Northwest, please, can you just get rid of receipts, please? How are you going to mummify your pets without your CVS receipts? No, it's really, it's just for our elderly population. They can't, it is what it is. I don't know what to tell you. Like I live in a town where there's a relatively large elderly population. And just the amount of coins and paper coupons that I see at CVS, I'm losing it.

7:52I'm losing it, folks. Mike, you're going to have to take over the show. They eliminated the penny, Ray. Good news for you. They eliminated the penny. Anyway, very exciting stuff. Also very exciting at Nosh Live. there's gonna be a really special probably i would say very well-known speaker who's going to be at nosh live special guest ray special speaker guest special guest special guest okay i don't know let's just leave it at that okay you want to leave it at that yes okay don't even say where it's going don't even say where it's going you know you go check out nosh live look at the agenda yes yeah and and ponder it for a little treasure hunt yes yes dm bev net mike if you can figure it I was going to say, it's not Mike.

8:35It's no one on our team. It's someone actually legit. I'm not allowed near the Nosh Live stage. It is someone very legit. Like someone mainstream. Go to the Nosh.com website. Or just go to Nosh.com. You don't have to say website. There's no reason to involve the word website in this. Go to Nosh.com. Go to the Nosh Live page. Look at the agenda. You will probably figure out who this person is. And although we're excited about Melissa Travers hosting Elevator Talk at Nosh Live, that's not who we're talking about. No, that's not what we're talking about. But there are a million other people that you'd want to see, talk to, and hear from at Nosh Live.

9:08Investors, retailers, like-minded founders. Well, not a million. A couple hundred. 650 ,000 people are going to be at Nosh Live. There still are opportunities to sign up for Elevator Talk. Exactly. You can get on the main stage and give us a pitch. Yeah, if you're not familiar with what Mike is talking about, we're taking elevator talk from the studio to the stage at Nosh Live. It is an opportunity for brands of all shapes and sizes and stages of development to be on stage, talk about what you do in 90 seconds, introduce yourself to the community, which again includes investors, retailers, distributors, the people that you want to meet, talk to, and work with.

9:50It's a phenomenal spot to practice your pitch in a safe place and get some feedback. Exactly. It's not a contest. It's just you up on stage doing your thing. Not me. Not you, Ray. Not me. You, the listener. Yes, yes. That's who I'm always talking to, the listener, you. Yes. And we only have a few slots left. So if you're thinking about coming, you want to get up on stage, you want to take one-to-one meetings, those slots are filling up. They are indeed. NotchLive.com is the way to register. If you're not there, you're going to have so much FOMO after the fact. So much. You'll be like, I should have been there.

10:29I should have been there. Ray, there is another pitch slam that you're hosting. I am indeed hosting another pitch slam. That is the Brewbound Live pitch slam, which is endless amounts of fun. I really love hosting that pitch slam because it's beer. I mean, beer and adjacent beverages like cider and cannabis. Well, there's Hemp at Bevan Live and Brewbound Live. We're really doubling up on hemp, which I suppose the timing seems like the hemp beverage industries could use all that awareness they can get. Awareness and advice, investment. There are still investors that are looking hard at that space and making great funding bets.

11:10I'm going to call it a bet at this point because there's still a lot unknown. There are always bets. Every investment is a bet. Every investment is a bet. That is true. It's a fair word. That is true. But the agenda that Justin, Jess, and Zoe, our editorial team for BrewBound have put together is just second to none. I'm just always incredibly impressed with the level of thought and intentionality that they bring to the table when they put this agenda together. It's people from Whole Foods. It's people from, you know, big time distributors like Breakthrough Beverage. It's people who are analysts in the industry, Robobank.

11:47It's the people that know everything about the industry inside and out, like a Bump Williams. If you're ever considering attending a beer event, and there's a lot of them out there, and I know I'm going to sound biased here, Brewbound Live is the place to be. And it's right after BevNet Live. Exactly. December 10th and 11th. Exactly. Don't even have to go anywhere if you're going to BevNet Live. No. Why would you want to go anywhere else? You're in Marinadale, right? I mean, I love being trapped in the Marriott for, I think, 11 nights. Trapped? it's a vacation yeah exactly because you have the company helicopter you can come and go as you please yeah i mean i wish no i don't wish we had a company shopper all right can we talk about uh some stocking stuffers for for hot sec so grillos they're just doing everything and collaborating with everyone lately and and it's a good thing because grillos is a legit stocking grillos pickles It says Grillo's and Zippo, Zippo the lighter.

12:48They have launched a limited edition windproof lighter collab. And it is exactly what you might expect. Two things that just don't go together. You don't think so? Pickles and lighters? What's even happening? You flip your Zippo and it smells like pickle brine or what? Does it have a green flame? No, it's a green Zippo with that green shade that Grillo's is known for. On the front, what looks like the front of the lighter, is the Grillo's Pickles logo on the top. And underneath is their famous pickle guy who's chilling out on a beach chair. On the back, it says, chill out, eat a pickle. And it's a picture of their pickle jars.

13:23And why does he need a lighter? Smoke a blunt? Yeah. What's he smoking? I'm thinking he's smoking a blunt. Not a cigarette. Can we even say blunt on this show? I don't know if we're supposed to be saying that. Somebody just did. I just did. We just said that. Jackie followed. It's legal in California. Yeah. Can you smoke a pickle, Ray? You can't smoke a pickle. Ooh, pickle flavored blunt. Anywho, Grillo's has done a lot of brand licensing and collaborations over the past few years. If you think about their work with Hippies, where they have a pickle-flavored Hippies product, or an Ithaca pickle-flavored hummus.

13:59Even Sonic, you know, Sonic, the fast food restaurant, they did, I think it was a pickle beverage, right? Like a pickle-flavored soda. They've done beer. Yep, V8. Remember the V8? Bloody Mary collaboration they did. Boulder Canyon. They also just released some new pickle products. Yes. Called Thickles, which are kind of tasty. Thickles? Thickles. What's the Thickles? I love that name. I mean, yeah, it's kind of a funny name, right? It makes you chuckle a little. Yeah. Which I think is on brand for them. But it's like a dill pickle chip, but it's like thicker. Wicked thick? Okay. You know, it's like if you ever go to like some gastropub and they give you some pickles or it's an app sort of thing, and the pickles are usually cut a little thicker.

14:38It's like that. Wicked thick thickles. Those are some wicked thick thickles. You can chop up pickles any which way you want. It just seems more useful than a, no offense, Grillo's Zippo lighter. But anyway, I digress. All I'm trying to point out is that their name is getting out there way more than it did in the past. I mean, in this area, in the Northeast, Grillo's has been one of the most beloved brands. And the founder of Grillo's, we had him on the podcast. And amazing story. But it was very much a Northeastern-based brand and regional-centric brand. Now it is very much national. I think if you ask most people who are somewhat in the know when it comes to food and beverage, they'll be like, oh, of course, Grillo's.

15:12I know Grillo's. Oh, yeah. Next thing you know, they're going to be on like Aston Martin, Formula Lungers. I love how you describe that. Like you're having casual conversation like with your buds. You're like, hey, I want to ask you guys, what do you think about pickle brands right now? Like what? Sure. Official pickles. What are your thoughts on Clausen's? How do you feel about Clausen's? Grillo's. That happens every night. You're like a bad Seinfeld episode. Every three, four hours, I'm like having this conversation about pickles. No, if I'm shopping or if I'm in the grocery store, I bet you people are going to recognize You start questioning other shoppers?

15:40Yes, exactly. It's part of my job. It's what I do. Never going to Brooklyn. Grilles has done a really good job, I think, building awareness through these collaborations, through these licensing deals. Mike's Hot Honey, another really good example of that. I mean, you know, I - Do they have a Zippo? They probably do. I can't think. It's probably at least 100 at this point, collaborations or licensing deals that Mike's Hot Honey has done. And then most recently, Graza. Graza does a ton of these deals. Littlespoon, most recently. Firehook. Ithaca. Alex Ice Cream. You could just list off like literally every brand.

16:10Yeah, Rind. Everybody's doing it, yeah. Yeah, Rind. And then Ourobor, they had the martini with Graza. And so it's clear like these three brands in particular, and you could probably throw Fly by Jing in there, although they're doing less than they had in the past. They've really embraced licensing deals and collaborations as part of their marketing and innovation strategies. And so as we head into 2026 and brands are considering partnerships and co-branded products, I'm going to ask you guys, what should they consider? What makes for a good collab? Well, first of all, don't do the collab too early.

16:45Like when you're too small, that is. Okay. I think we've seen some brands, which I'm not going to call anyone out, but they kind of started doing brand collabs when their brand itself wasn't really on solid footing. And that seems sort of risky and maybe a distraction. I think for brands that have even a little bit of traction, like it seems okay if it's done in a way that somehow there's synergies between the two brands. You know, I think that's the ideal collab is like you both maybe share some similar traits of a consumer base, you know, and you're just maybe getting some extra trial out of it.

17:24There's also the opposite of that, which is like the shocking collaborations like the Gorillaz and Zippo, which I don't know. That's shocking. It's pretty shocking. Would you have thought of that? You know, would you come to the table if we said, hey, let's let's put two brands together and you'd be like, oh, I'm going to pick Zippo and Pickles. I wouldn't call it shocking. It's probably less expected than other collabs, perhaps. Okay, well, it's not antifreeze and gorillas pickets. That would be a bad, shocking collaboration. Don't tempt Mike with a good time. I think out of the ordinary or unexpected sometimes works and then sometimes it's kind of weird.

18:04Just today I saw a new collaboration between a wine brand that's called 19 Crimes, which has... Snoop Dogg. Yes, it's Snoop Dogg's brand, which has released a new product called Severed Red. And this wine is made with Liquid Death. The blood of his enemies? Oh. Liquid Death. So 19 Crimes and Liquid Death have collaborated. And so it's a, I believe, a co-branded product. And I would certainly not have expected that. Look, Liquid Death is probably the exception of this in that their whole brand is basically wacky, offbeat. so they could basically do a brand collaboration with anything at this point.

18:45Fair enough. Fair enough. So I think that's a little different than maybe a pickle brand. Sure. Or someone like a Graza, which has done more like, I don't know, things that I would say kind of have a culinary sort of experiential type slant to them. But don't you want to do one that's going to have some legs and some longevity? Like, for instance, I think the Fly by Jing Daily Crunch is one of my favorite collabs. Sure. where you just really add some nice flavor to those sprouted almonds. Yeah. Even I have right here, the Fly by Jing and Lundberg rice. It's just like a great collaboration. It tastes good.

19:22It's not something that you really think of as like, oh, this is a collabed product unless you look at like, oh, it has Fly by Jing. Awesome. It's going to taste delicious. So I think it's like aligning on just a really tasty product. That's more powered by Fly by Jing, right? Yeah. Yeah. it's not a huge deal it's just kind of like a footnote like yes it has flat by jing in it it's gonna be delicious what's awesome about that too is that i think you started out as a limited edition product but now i think it's part of lundberg's permanent seems to be lineup you can get that anywhere which is awesome everywhere yeah which is just like with fishwife too i mean fishwife and flyby jing have this amazing product i think i eat like once a week well i mean flyby packaging and Graza again are two, I mean, they're just components, right?

20:09So you can put them in a lot of things and use it to make a product. I would say heavenly components. Heavenly components. Yeah. I think also just like aligning on your brand and who your target audience is, like Fish Wife, they collabed with Keystone, which I think at first you're like, huh, interesting. But they did like a tackle box. Yeah, the beer brand. Oh. Fish Wife is trying to be like approachable, fun, lighthearted, and putting that in a tackle box for, you know, going fishing and eating 10 fish. It's kind of funny. That's pretty weird. That's funny. And then ruin it with a nice keystone light.

20:47But anyway. Oh, hello. If you want to get a sense of how I think Jing thinks about, you know, her brand and where she would put her brand. You could ask her, by the way, she's going to be at Nosh Live. You can ask her at Nosh Live. So subtle, you guys. That would be a great way to have that conversation. But ahead of that, I would go to her Jing Theory Instagram page and watch this reel that she did that gives you four pieces of advice on how Korean companies build brands. And I think a lot of what she talks about in that is stuff that she believes already. And the way that she's built the Fly by Jing brand to be this experiential brand that has a life, you know, beyond just the condiments itself.

21:27Yeah. Going back to Jackie's point about not really being a footnote, but the flavor of that Lundberg Rice is being powered by Fly by Jing. I wonder how you negotiate that or how you talk to your co-branding partner about packaging and label design so that it really enhances both brands in the best possible way. So I mentioned Boulder Canyon as one of the brands that Grillo's Pickles has partnered with. And it's almost like one logo stacked on top of the other. So, Mike, you can see it here. You have Boulder Canyon, obviously the potato chip brand on top. Right underneath it says Grillo's Pickles.

22:06And I think that's a fair, because you're really highlighting the fact that it's a pickle flavor and that it's a well-known brand. Yeah. And not just some... Pickles in the chips versus chips in the pickles. So Boulder Canyon coming first. So, you know, it's no potato chip, not a bag full of pickles. Yeah. But I think how that's negotiated is certainly really important. Again, because you want to highlight both brands as much as possible. Now, on the other hand, I just saw this other collaboration between two companies. I believe it's called Huer, H-U-E-R, I don't know how you pronounce it. But they have partnered with Frank's Red Hot to introduce some new spicy gummy bears.

22:42And it almost looks like it's not a Huer product. It almost looks like it's a Frank's Red Hot product. I got some spicy gummies too. Do you see this? I mean, look, it's kind of weird, actually. That is very strange. It looks like the bottle of Frank's Red Hot turned into a package of gummy bears. This is one of those that I think is, you know, let's antifreeze and pickles. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I'm going to go further. I started the year, actually it was last year, I think we were talking about things that we want to see in 2025. And one of the things I was hoping to see would be a lot more of these collaborations between emerging brands and established brands as well.

23:22And I think certainly we've seen quite a bit of it in 2025. And I hope it continues to be that way for next year as well. Quick break. If this episode has you thinking about what's next in food and beverage, explore BevNet and Nosh Insider, our subscription platform with deeper insights from the BevNet team. Visit tasteradio.com slash insider to learn more. all right you guys are chomping at the bit yeah i'm ready over here to talk about your products all right john's got a an emerging brand about two years in that's uh that's a beloved brand i believe at this point yes and it's a collaboration with thanksgiving ray okay it's the new lentiful instant lentils thanksgiving feast which uh if you haven't add lentiful i mean we've certainly talked about it a lot but a couple of instant lentils that you know they've got a bunch of different varieties different flavorings winner of the nosh pitch slam two years ago founder ben bacon yes chill dude with the uh maybe most fortunate last name for a person making vegan products but anyway yeah this sort of blends thanksgiving flavors got some vegetables and stuff in here it's really good i mean this thing It's 200 calories, 12 grams of protein, six grams of fiber.

24:38It's a potent little cup. Yeah. I like the branding there. And, you know, the Thanksgiving feast is a good idea, but that just tastes like something I eat every day. Yeah. I don't know about every day, but it's a good fall winter sort of flavor. It's very hearty. It does feel like you're eating like a hearty stew. He doesn't skimp on the herbs either. Yeah. The thyme, the sage, the rosemary, it's there. It's delicious and it does taste kind of like meaty for a plant-based snack. I love this because it's got so much going on in here. Just the nutrients, the macronutrients are fantastic. 12 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, 200 calories.

25:18It's definitely going to fill you up. But carrots, peas, green beans, lentils, these are all good things. Good for you. Needs a little turkey. Anyway. I love lentil. Needs some turkey. All right. That's the feedback. It's a Ben. Ben, just put a turkey leg in. Just real turkey. Put a turkey neck. Put a turkey neck in there. Jose, you were just talking about Frank's Red Hot and the gummies. Yeah. Well, this Blobs collaborated with Fire Ray. What is Blobs, Mike? Blobs is a brand of better-for-you gummies. And this one is Fire Blobs, spicy mango guava, and only four grams of sugar. It's pretty spicy.

25:58I think if you're not into spice, this is going to surprise you. They warn you. It says fire. Is that a warning label? Fire. Anytime you see fire, it's bad. Coming in hot on the back, Ray. Coming in hot. I mean, they're trying to warn you. Clever stuff. These are good. Okay. Good. Good. All right. John has some energy in his hand. Yeah. Just a quick shout out to Huxley, who just rebranded. that really feels like a totally different product line here. And Huxley is the maker of Better For You energy made with electrolytes. Yes, I guess they call it refreshingly real energy now. It used to be about, I think, plant-powered energy, but it looks like the same formulation.