What's So Great About PRIME? Plus, The Collab That Shattered The Internet.

0:10hello and thanks for tuning into taste radio the number one podcast for the food and beverage industry I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio And I'm with my co-host for this episode John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider I don't know why I have to continue to read that I have this You forget our names I guess so Yeah, you should know by now This is what, the 500th time that I've done this? And I still consistently need to read from my agenda here But anyway, it's a process I love BTS I love talking about it The band? Yeah That's what I meant They're not a band. They're a group.

0:46Okay. Yeah, they're. Yeah. I often, I don't know. You indulge. I don't know. Well, no, I've actually, I don't think I've ever heard a BTS song. We'll remedy that later. Okay. I feel a real coming on. Let's just stop right there. I think I am not a BTS fan or a listener or just haven't really been exposed to BTS because it's not, I'm not of their target market. I'm not a target listener of BTS. And in some ways, I feel the same way about Prime, the brand of sports and energy drinks launched by social media influencers Logan Paul and KSI and operated by Congo Brands Prime. BevNet's 2023 brand of the year.

1:34And I want to pull back the curtain a little bit, just every so slightly about why we chose it. You know, this is a prime opportunity, ha ha, for soccer banter right now, because they were a major supporter of Arsenal. Did that alienate you from Prime, do you think? No, I don't think so at all. As a Manchester United supporter? You know, I think the thing with Prime that's really interesting is that I, and I think some of us here at the table, and I'm not including Jackie because she's not at the table, don't really understand today's youth. And for so many reasons, Prime, I feel like, captured the zeitgeist of the 2020s in so many ways.

2:16I mean, I think about, you know, this feeling that youth can be bold and unapologetic about who they are. And, you know, Prime in its branding, in its positioning, in its marketing, is that in so many ways. Yeah, also in its personalities. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Logan Paul and KSI, I mean, that's two guys who do what they want, say what they want. Talk about unapologetic individuals. I think how they've gone about it is just really smart. Like you said, they're unapologetic. They're authentic to their own personal brands, and that feeds through to Prime. And with those partnerships, I know they also partnered with UFC and NASCAR, and they're being very particular.

3:02The biggest football clubs in the world. Yeah. And like they're being very particular with like who they partner with. And then they're also using the product all the time in their content. So I think they have almost like 40 million followers on Instagram combined. So right there, that reach is the consumer that they're trying to target. Like I know that Gen Z follows both of those influencers daily. Yeah, you're talking about KSI and Logan Paul is having 40 million Instagram followers combined. And the other part of this is kind of interesting is that I am not necessarily a fan of artificial sweeteners in my beverages.

3:41And prime sports drinks include sucralose or made with sucralose. And I've tried the product and frankly, I'm not a huge fan of it, but it's not made for me. You know, I think it's a liquid, it's a formulation that's made for younger consumers who seem to love it. Well, I don't know. I beg to differ slightly. Okay. You know, I think what's super clever about it is if you look at, I mean, there's tons of influencers, YouTubers, et cetera, you know, selling merch, right? I mean, that's like the most basic thing. Merch link in bio, baby. Yeah, merch link in bio. And, you know, what they did was sell something that you use every single day and has the ability to also, if you are a fan of them, you buy this product and you could influence other people on consuming it.

4:30As opposed to like, I don't know, if you buy a piece of merch from some YouTuber, you're not going to convert somebody else who's like not into that YouTuber to wear that merch, right? Like your rainbow Lamborghini sweatshirt. Right. I know. I try to get Mike to wear it, but he just won't do it. But, you know, I think this is something that it's really broadened its appeal. And, you know, in hindsight, I think, you know, they launched in a category that to some extent, despite, you know, there being a recent big acquisition in that category. Body armor. Right. It was kind of a little, you know, ripe for another brand to hop in and seize a chunk of it.

5:10So, you know, I don't know how much of that was luck or, you know, a plan or whatever, but, you know, it worked. So and I think, you know, at least Logan Paul has transcended beyond just being an influencer at this point, too. So, I mean, it's I think hard to extract lessons out of that that your average entrepreneur can put to use. Yeah, boxing your friends probably isn't a strategy for everyone. You know, I was thinking about that point, John. about how entrepreneurs can incorporate what Prime has done into their business strategies. And I thought of a couple examples, ones that we brought up on the podcast that have done just that.

5:52You think about Omsom or you think about Flat by Jing. Again, two brands that know what they stand for, are firm in their representation. But go ahead. No, that's true. And I think, yes, those are certainly more niche products than, you know, a brightly colored sports drink sweetened with sucralose. But maybe I would put it this way. Like Prime to me feels like they have a product that can go super broad. And AumSum and FlyByJing, on the other hand, I think have gone extremely deep into areas that they are also associated with. Right. So they're not trying to sell a billion units or whatever Prime is sold.

6:38The higher price point, probably higher margin product that doesn't need that many units to be sold. Yeah. And I think also like Body Armor is targeting the athlete. Prime, not necessarily targeting an athlete, which again, widens the reach. And they also do a great job of doing giveaways and making it like some exclusive offers, which has the cool factor. And I know like Gen Z loves sneaker drops and things like that. Like they want something like that to engage with online as well. So it's like multi-channel. Yeah, that's a really good point, Jackie. I think you're 100 % correct in that Body Armor is very much focused on sports, fitness, hydration, whereas Prime feels so much more tied to lifestyle and, you know, specifically Gen Z and Gen Alpha lifestyle.

7:23I remember, you know, going around the soccer fields of my town and, you know, last year just seeing the fields littered with prime bottles. I'm like, what the heck is going on here? And I just couldn't understand it. And the reason I couldn't understand it is because I'm not 12 or 18. Like this is not my brand. Prime is also super focused right now on the sports drink. And they've got the energy drink and they've got the sticks too, where you've got like, you know, going back to Fly by Jing, it's a little bit more diversified too to capture more markets. So you've got them with, you know, going beyond the heart and soul of Chili Crisp there too.

7:59Yeah. And I know you're going to say, John, that Prime does have broad positioning. And I keep going back to like younger consumers drinking this. But really, have you seen any people drinking? I'd crush a Metamoon right now, right? Do you drink Prime in a regular? I like Prime, yeah. Not regular, but I do drink it. What I was going to say is I see a lot of parallels to the rise of vitamin water, which is essentially kind of almost a sports drink, but designed for, as the big guys like to call it, non-sweat occasions, right? It's a lifestyle brand and, you know, drink it whenever you want, right?

8:36And clearly it's working, so. I think there's also a renegade factor in all this, too. Chris Hunter from Koya, who's one of the co-founders of Koya and also one of the co-founders of Four Loko, talked about this on LinkedIn in that there has always been some controversy surrounding the founders of Prime, Logan Paul and KSI. And there's something kind of edgy about the brand that is derived from that controversy. And then, you know, you saw a United States senator, Andrew Thefold, talking about Prime's energy drink line and saying this is not a brand for kids. You know, kids shouldn't be consuming this.

9:09think about how much caffeine is in it and they're targeting kids and so on and so forth. So that controversy, I think, also played into the media hype about Prime as well. Well, at least the news cycle right now, our memory is extremely short. Yes. Yes. Interestingly enough, that is not a talking point in today's news. Far from the top of concerns. No, it is definitely not that. But, you know, in any case, I think Prime is a brand to be recognized it is a remarkable brand that is doing hundreds of millions of dollars in sales, just essentially two years after its launch. Hence our recognition of it as the brand of the year for BevNet.

9:50And our very own Brad Avery sat down with Logan Paul for an interview to discuss Prime's big year, how it has developed and evolved, and what's next for 2024 for in a video that you can find on BevNet.com. Check it out. All right, switching gears from a popular sports drink brand to a legacy and very popular snack brand, Doritos. Today it was announced that Doritos has collaborated with Empirical, which is a Copenhagen-based spirit company that they call, they describe themselves as a global flavor innovator to create the empirical and Doritos nacho cheese spirit. This is something that I thought Craven created via AI.

10:36I was like, this, this isn't real. Yeah. This is the Dr. Jing of spirits. Mike for once is a speechless or almost speechless. It does look a little AI-ish, but it's maybe. It's a little too good. It's too good. Like an actual human worked on that. Yeah. Whether, whether it's real or not, we'll find out. According to the press release, this limited release offers a multi-sensorial, delicious beverage experience that smells and tastes just like the real thing. Bringing the iconic flavor of Doritos nacho cheese chips into the spirit style. So you can drink your Doritos now. This sounds like my collaboration between Chubby and Fish Wife.

11:13Chubby Snacks. Chubby Snacks. The peanut butter and jelly. I'm holding out for Slim Jim and Tito's. Slim Jim. You know. Because I'm a fan of both of those. Anyway. I think the interesting thing about this is I have interviewed the founders of Empirical. I've actually been to their distillery in Copenhagen and everything they do, it seems to be focused on innovation and flavor development. It feels like a very refined and sophisticated brand. What do you guys like? Just like Doritos. You think they're above eating a little Doritos? I mean, I think there is a refined brand Doritos. That part you could say.

11:52Very refined over time. But anyway, I'm curious about why they chose to align with Doritos. Maybe distiller was eating Doritos, had some Dorito hands, got it in the booze, and they were like, well, we got to sell it. I mean, so one of the oddest and best flavor combinations that I ever accidentally discovered was Lime Tostitos and Glenroth's 12. Those two go really well together. It's really strange. Okay. That is strange. That is super strange. But would you ever blend the two into a spirit? Never. Okay, there you go. No way. That's the thing. Like the actual experience of drinking Dorito flavor.

12:35I don't know. Maybe like pairing, but not all combined. Which color arsenal kit did you pair with this abomination? Abomination. The new yellow, of course. The new neon yellow. This isn't the first time that we've had snack foods or snack food flavors incorporated into spirits. It was, what, 2021 that Arby's launched a vodka that was inspired by their French fries. And then Lay's, which is owned by PepsiCo, and PepsiCo owns Doritos as well, created a vodka made in part with the same potatoes that are used for its potato chips. Yum. But I think in both cases, it wasn't a named collaboration. you'd have two brands named as part of the spirit.

13:21So it was Arby's Vodka and Lay's Vodka. In this case, you have Doritos and Empirical Spirit. They're not specific about the type of spirit because Empirical is never specific about the type of spirit that they sell. They don't make vodkas and whiskeys. They make spirits based on flavor specifically, first and foremost. I have requested a bottle. I believe a bottle is on the way. So we're going to taste this. Oh, taste us. Yes, we're going to taste this at some point. Maybe we can send a dram your way, Jackie, so you can sip with us. And then, yeah. I may have to suspend sober curiosity for that.

13:57Okay. I'm hoping to sit down with the founders of Empirical for an interview about this collab, because it's, if nothing else, very interesting. Jeez. Yeah. Is it product sampling time yet? Not just yet. I got some weird booze in the waiting room. I guess that's a good segue, but if you had that weird booze in a Tetra Pak, I'd be much, much happier. Booze in a Tetra Pak? How about that one, Ray? Yours is just in a bottle. Yeah, secret vial is what they call it. Secret vial. Speaking of Tetra Pak, I want to thank them because they are the presenting sponsor for this episode of Taste Radio. Tetra Pak is the pioneering packaging solutions company that provides safe, innovative, and environmentally sound products that each day meet the needs of hundreds of millions of people around the world.

14:44Learn more at tetrapac.com. I had a fantastic interview with Pedro Gonsalves, who is the VP of Marketing for the U.S. and Canada for Tetra Pak at BevNet Live. If you want to check out that video, head to bevnet.com. We'll be posting it very soon, along with every stage interview, panel, presentation, live stream interview that we recorded at BevNet Live. It'll all be available very soon. Stay tuned for more information. Before we get to that, even, your spirit, John, that is. You know, meeting with folks and sitting down with folks at BevNet Live and Nosh Live, I often got the question, as you might expect, can you introduce me to investors?

15:27That's an obvious question. Everyone needs money. Everyone wants to speak to an investor. I think we did our best. I think the team did our best to make those connections. But the second most popular question that I was asked at the events was, how can I best curate my pitch? What should I be saying in my pitch? And this came up a lot because we had our one-to-one sessions with retail buyers from Albertsons, Whole Foods, Thrive Market, Sprouts, the Fresh Market. And in each case, the entrepreneurs... Kroger. Kroger. In this case, entrepreneurs sat down, they had about, what was it, 10, 15 minutes?

16:01They got 10 minutes. 10 minutes to sit down with retail buyers and they wanted to make those 10 minutes as effective and efficient as possible. Can I applaud the industry for a moment here? Sure. While I applaud Jackie, first of all, Jackie, phenomenal job putting that whole thing together. Second, not a single person was late for an interview. There were no missed meetings. That was flawless. Yeah, people were excited about it and they obviously wanted to take those 10 minutes to chat. So they took full advantage. blowing off a retailer probably shouldn't have a cpg company then i don't know well yeah rule number one don't be late and don't blow off your meeting with a retail buyer they didn't they knew rule number one rule number two in my opinion is what value what incremental value is my brand bringing to your stores retailers always tell me this look they have a limited amount of space So typically, if they're going to put your product on, another product is going to come off, unless they are increasing the amount of shell space for a particular category.

17:04So explain to them what your brand is going to do for them, not what the retailer can do for you. It's like that John Kennedy line, right? Yeah, well done there. You like that? Sure. I incorporated some presidential. Yeah, perfect. I think another part of it is, obviously, you know, what differentiates your brand, your products from what already exists out there? Sometimes that's kind of a hard question to answer because it might only be a tiny difference between your brand and another. But if that tiny difference can in the long term be a significant difference, that's an important point to make.

17:38Any other thoughts, folks? No, that's exactly it. I mean, going in with our product is extremely different from every other product is like, usually doesn't work out that well in most categories. Right. I also think you should just be in love with the product that you have in front of you, because if you get too far into innovation too soon, then, you know, they're going to shut you down too. Yeah, I know that a lot of times I hear that brands should stay focused. You know, they're trying to do too much too fast. And then they're trying to, you know, enter the store in multiple locations. They're spreading themselves too thin.

18:15So I think staying focused and explaining, you know, what is your plan for growth? Once you do expand that focus is also important. We saw a lot of that in the New Beverage Showdown where we had some companies that were, you know, they just had a lot of variables in their drinks and they're good, but each of them could have, sometimes those variables could come together to form a new company. And there's also more variables, more like holes to poke as far as like a retailer or an investor. Right. And the education. Absolutely. And also what your competitive advantage might be and how sustainable that competitive advantage is, whether it be in your team, in your formulation, in your supply chain, in your retailer relationships, et cetera.

19:03And, you know, I'm going to paraphrase Warren Buffett here, the famous investor who once said, you know, he invests in companies that have a significant competitive advantage over others, but more importantly, how sustainable, how much runway, long-term value that advantage has. I think the new beverage showdown and BevNet Live also just proved to be the safest place to hear that feedback too, because once again, you could just walk up to a retailer and find out what they think, or, you know, meet somebody in the crowd who could help you, you know, hone your strategy, your packaging, you know, all that stuff was there.

19:37It was pretty fun. Absolutely. I do want to mention one more aspect of a pitch, and this is more specific to investor decks. John Forker, the co-founder and CEO of Once Upon a Farm, also well known as the CEO of Annie's or former CEO of Annie's, had a great post on LinkedIn last week. He noted that investor decks that he sees from emerging brands often single out and target competition by name. And your competition often sees these decks and often sees the comparisons that you're trying to make. And you want to be very careful, he noted, about making those comparisons and including those names in your decks because it ends up being more of a detriment to your brand than otherwise.

20:23Well, those are your frenemies. You know, those are your market making frenemies at times and talking, you know, too badly about them is to your detriment because you're trying to build off in a category together. Well, I think it also just simply undermines your own credibility and awareness. I've seen decks where, you know, you might as well have like a quadrant that's like products that suck and then you just put like seriously i mean i've seen that one i've seen many times we've seen the competition i've seen that i've seen matrices that are basically like you know products like that look bad and products that taste bad and they put brands like you know red bull and these massively successful brands in them with more race cars than you and it's like you know i guess where i'm going is sometimes it it makes uh founders sort of try to fix something about a product that a consumer isn't looking to fix.

21:20And Red Bull in that case would be a good example of like, there are probably hundreds, if not, you know, low thousands of better tasting Red Bull brands out there that are in the graveyard of things that didn't work out. So, you know, I don't know. I think when you're super early stage, like, yes, crapping on the market leaders is not, it's just not a good look. Yeah, I think it's also distracting. You know, that's less time for you to talk about your own brand. And you're just shifting the focus to other products rather than explaining like what you're doing different amongst the entire marketplace, not like specific brands.

21:57I know they're what they're trying to get at the space that they occupy and they're trying to excite the investor, but there's definitely a better way to do that. Well, I think generally speaking, you know, the majority of food and beverage CPG is not build a better mousetrap. It's build something that is, I think, as we said earlier, like, you know, some meaningful, probably smallish innovation. And then it's about execution. And I think that's something that to the point of it being a distraction, like it does change like the kind of course of the conversation to have, again, sections of a deck that are crapping on these brands that are out there actually executing well.

22:40And as John Forker notes in his post, you'd be surprised how motivating it is to your competitor to have shade thrown at them. Yeah, we've seen that on LinkedIn for sure. We've seen that. Absolutely. All right. John Craven. You ready for a little sip of some booze? I think so. I didn't know I was going to be sipping on booze. I've gone right for it. I don't know, Mike. Do you want one or are you back on the... That depends on what it is. Well, it's... Oh, God. It's ectoplasm. A secret vial. Is this bright yellow? Oh, my God. No, it's more green. Okay. Neon green? I'll pour you one. Matcha oat.

23:15Oh, my God. It is neon green. Consistency. It is neon green, folks. It's the same matcha oat liqueur. Who is the vial from? I cannot state. That's why it's a secret vial, Jackie. Come on now. I'm like, did you make this? I'm not going to shove this across the table. It's not a vial as much as it is a bottle, but I thought the word you were using was vial. It looks like it's off the set of Ghostbusters. This came off the set of Ghostbusters. This is... It does look like ectoplasm. It's like slime. Oh, it smells like ectoplasm too. Give us some context here. What is this? This is matcha oat liqueur.

23:49So it's basically trying to be an alternative to like a cream liqueur with, you know, a matcha flavor to it. Okay. Which I don't think has been done before. I guess there's a lot of like coffee liqueurs. So if people like coffee liqueur, there's things like Bailey's Irish cream and all those. This is going for a different sort of vibe. I mean, the liquid is definitely eye catching. I think it's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty good. I'm a little worried that they are using artificial colors in this because this does not look like... That is the color of matcha. Yeah, but this is like neon green.

24:26It looks like a clear spirit with matcha to me. No? Perhaps. That is the color of matcha. I've poured a few. I mean, it's a little bit lighter. I'll give you that. Definitely would drink again. Okay. I have a snack to wash it down. Here you go. You can drink it again. That meant to be mixed or just drink it straight up. Like, could you mix that in a cocktail? Most creme liqueurs you can make a cocktail out of, but the primary use is like drink from bottle, probably a little more chilled or over ice. But it's only, I think it's 17 % ABV. Girl Scouts Muddy Bites. What? Look at that. Another green product.

25:02You guys can share this bag because I'm going to eat this one myself. But these are Girl Scouts Muddy Bites. And Muddy Bites are? A line of waffle cone snacks, right? They're little, the end of the cone filled with chocolate. that these are thin mint flavor. And, you know, you guys know that I love mint chip things. This seemed pretty close. So this is brand. This is co-branded with the Girl Scouts. Right. I don't know if some Girl Scout's going to come knock on my door and sell me these. Holy moly. You guys just opened up the pouch and you can just get that immediate aroma of their Thin Mints.

25:35Oh, my gosh. It smells so good. Well, Thin Mints are the best Girl Scout cookies. I like the one. I forgot the name. What's the one, Jackie, with the coconut flakes on top? Yeah. Oh. Those are also the best Girl Scout cookies. Those are my favorite, too. You know what else are the best? Tagalongs. Those are also the best. Every Girl Scout cookie rules one. I've got to look this up. Coconut. All right, listeners, if you want to disagree with us about Girl Scout cookies, send us a note at askatastereadio.com or DM us on Instagram. Oh, Samoas. Samoas are also the best Girl Scout cookies. They renamed those.

26:04They have a new name. Oh, okay. They did rename those. I will give some unsolicited business advice to the Girl Scouts, though. They should just stop selling cookies and sell Muddy Bites instead. But people still like cookies. No, I mean, if like somebody knocked on my door selling these, I would buy like all of them. These are really good. You know, it's a plus for the for the Girl Scouts is that these don't include any artificial ingredients. And I've come to see more artificial ingredients appearing in Girl Scout cookies, which is not making me too happy about buying them. I still buy them, but I don't buy them as much as I would otherwise.

26:39I think Girl Scout cookies are ripe for innovation. So I think it's about time they change it up. Girl Scout cookie-inspired flavor. Samoas are now Caramel Delights. Caramel Delights. There we go. Do-si-dos are peanut butter sandwiches. And Tagalongs are peanut butter cookies. I also just like the basic shortbread ones. Those are called shortbreads, but used to be called trefoils. AI Mike over here. God, why are their branding so confusing? That was just Google Mike. um yeah my mic's coming later for glenn ross and uh and tostitos john craven has uh the winner of nosh lives pitch slam 2023 in his hand the brand that is yes this is the uh tomato bolognese flavor we've talked about linda full before many times yeah because it's awesome too many times um sorry yeah i mean uh great pitch slam competition i think i was well i was not on the judging panel fortunately i think i was i i would have been tough yeah lenifol or lexington bakes probably would have been my two but see i would have i i was all over mazah i mean there's so many good ones and also confusion snacks i love the story i love the popcorn i can't stop eating it probably lexington bakes was on my mind because i was eating a pile of lexington bakes Yeah.