When Hype Engulfs An Entire Industry, What Are The Lessons?

0:10Hello and thanks for tuning in to taste radio the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Lateef, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm here with my co-host for this episode, John Craven, Jackie Brugliera, and Mike Schneider. Mike Schneider, back from the Big Apple, where he was on a scouting mission for the upcoming Bebnet Live Summer 2024 events. How are things in New York, Mike? Ray, they're great. It's New York City. What more could you ask for? They have everything everywhere, anytime you want. choice paralysis at times. But yeah, I got to go to the Met Pavilion.

0:52We've got some additional space this year. We're really opening up the ability to have one-to-one meetings with retailers and pretty excited about that. We also have, I mean, we have so much space that we're going to have workshops for the first time in New York City. Like woodworking workshops? So you can carve your own spatula or something? Make a birdhouse, depending on that life. Yes, arts and crafts. They generally tend to be about the food and beverage industry, Ray. So it tends to be something about product formulation or, you know, just anything that can help you level up your game in terms of building your product.

1:29We've had workshops on these things in the past. So that's what's going to happen at BevNet Live. Awesome. Well, I keep getting questions from a lot of entrepreneurs about tactical advice, in particular, working with service and supplier partners, you know, trying to find the right co-packer, the right ingredient supplier, you know, the right financial partners. And so I think these kinds of workshops are going to be extremely valuable for anyone attending BevNet Live. It's also going to be extremely valuable for anyone participating and joining the one-on-one meetings that you referenced, Mike.

2:05Once again, we'll have Whole Foods representatives at the show to be able to sit down with folks who want to pitch their product, introduce their brand to Whole Foods, which is really cool. And Lowe's will be there as well. Yep. Lowe's Foods, another retailer will also be available for one-on-one meetings at BevNet Live. I mean, that's the great thing about BevNet Live, Ray, is that you're, as a brand, a founder or a decision maker at a brand, you're the attendee. We make the content for you. We're trying to give you a drink from the fire hose about what's going on in the food and beverage industry, inspire some conversations, and then you're bound to have questions.

2:42And the people that can answer the questions are always in the audience. And if they can't help you, they know who can. And it's just a really great opportunity to get together and advance your business a milestone or two. Don't forget distributors. Distributors as well. Yeah, there. June 12th and 13th, 2024 in New York City is going to be the event for the food and beverage industry. So you don't want to miss it. I got to say, one of my favorite parts about the New York City BevNet Live is that it's like the beating pulse, the heartbeat of beverage, you know, seems to be making it, seems to be aligning with the right people in the biggest city, arguably in the world.

3:33And so, you know, you not only get all the information, all the networking, all the great insights inside the Met Pavilion, but you get that opportunity to be outside and meeting with folks and sort of feeling the energy of the city and what's possible for your brand in the Big Apple. So definitely something that I love about FevNet Live in New York City. And I think something that whether you're a first time attendee or someone who's been there a number of times will feel as well. And if you get stressed out, we've got the industrial hemp beverage sampling again. It's going to happen. Chill vibes.

4:07Got to mention that since I think we were maybe the first event to do that. Some people told us that, but I guess this will be the second or third or something. What we've heard from the industry is that we're doing a fairly good job of leaning into hemp beverages and cannabis beverages and treating it very seriously and helping it become like a business conference for for cannabis. I'm personally super proud of that and want to continue to make it a friendly space for, you know, anyone building a beverage. Come on in. We'll help you get your beverage to the next level. I mean, that's what it's all about.

4:41There's great sampling opportunities for pretty much any experience or use case you see your beverage being used in. We have our non-alk bar too, which is great for non-alk cocktails and better for you options for people that aren't trying to drink as much alcohol. And we are going to have a panel about that at BevNet Live as well, featuring some non-alk retailers, which is Sashay and Boisson. boisson boisson boisson i took french in high school so i can i can correct you i did not so i'm gonna butcher it that's pretty good right wasn't it isn't pretty good last week i could not speak speak a lick of spanish i felt like such an ass trying to like actually keep up with people it was pathetic actually i was like speaking french spanish and english but it was like all in single words i was like si oui no and it was just like none of this makes any sense People were actually laughing at me.

5:38It's embarrassing. But anyway, it's not the first time people have laughed at me or right in my face. Switching gears here, you know, in June, we'll be on the cusp of Euro 2024, which I know Mike and I are extremely excited about. But we're right in the thick of the NCAA tournaments. And Jackie, I am sure you are watching every second you can. I am. This tournament's been insane. I've definitely been more closely watching the women's basketball, and I'm so happy that women's basketball is getting, you know, their day. And hopefully it will just drive awareness and exposure for women athletes moving forward.

6:16But every game's been neck and neck. And I did create a bracket. I have some of the BevNetters in there competing. Unfortunately, I'm not in the lead right now. But, you know, hopefully I have going forward, I will move up the ranks. Jackie. national champion, MVP of your national championship team, and you're not even in the lead in your workplace tournament bracket. Come on. What is going on? I think I led with like emotion rather than, you know, just looking at the numbers. That'll happen. Some good chats about it in Slack. I mean, we're talking about Juju Watkins the other day from USC. What a player.

6:56She's unreal. And she's a freshman and she's 6 '2 and a guard. She's just unreal. She plays like a dude. years old bossing the game it was awesome to watch yeah yeah yeah caitlin clark obviously page buckers from uh yukon am i pronouncing her last name correctly page buchers buchers yeah i think people could call her people call her page buckets because she's a dynamite that's a good name but buchers i think is correct yeah but yeah maybe you think about the the nil opportunities name image and likeness opportunities for these folks and i saw that caitlin clark is making like$3.1 million this year in NIL money.

7:32And it's funny because like, remember back in the day when you could like get WNBA stars or like rookies and any professional sports team and you could kind of get them on the cheap because it was like, these are people who are relatively new or that people don't, you know, the general public doesn't know much about. And now it's like, you know, if you participate in the NCAA tournament, you have a breakout season, smaller and early stage brands, can't just be like, hey, you know, here's 10 grand and, you know, please endorse our product. Like, yeah, I can't imagine any early stage brand that would be able to afford.

8:06Yeah. Caitlin Clark at this point, it's like, you know, she's dealing with massive legacy brands, probably, you know, knocking on her door. Oh, yeah. I mean, she's sponsored by Nike. She's in like all these ads right now. But also it does create an opportunity because there's a lot of athletes that aren't the Caitlin Clarks that still have an audience and have fans that are following them. So they're pretty much influencers in their own right. They're just maybe more micro-influencers. So yeah, NIL has changed the game. It wasn't a thing when I was an athlete, but now they can get paid for being little celebrities.

8:42Did you hear the level of remorse in Jackie's voice? That's when I was DMX. I said I'm on taste radio. Here I am. I could actually maybe afford to buy a condo in San Diego had I had some of that money. If only I took advantage. A little down payment would be nice. Times are different. Times are different. Times are different. Now you just have to rely on the generosity of BevNet. Yes. On your home. Really? Are we going there? Jeez.

9:15Mike, you'd mentioned hemp earlier. And in last week's episode, John had talked about how there was certain singular trends or ingredients that used to sort of dominate the conversation at past Expo West. And in 2019, that ingredient was CBD. And it seemed like the entire show was soaked in CBD. It was just on the tip of everyone's tongue. Anyone who was creating a new product or had sort of under-the-table innovation seemed to be interested in or working on a new CBD-infused product. Five years later, not so much. And in fact, there was an article in the New York Times that was published about a month ago titled, Companies Were Big on CBT?

10:01Not anymore. That's pretty straightforward. and interviewed some folks in the industry, including the founder of Vibes, Jonathan Eppers. Vibes is a brand of CBD beverages, as well as Ben Witte, who is the founder of Recess, which began as a CBD-infused brand. And now, as he mentioned in the article, CBD-infused products represent less than 10 % of sales for Recess at this point. And I think it's kind of strange to me because there was so much interest. it seemed like there was a lot of consumer demand as well. And it just fell off a cliff. John Craven, I mean, you were following this ingredient and this trend really closely.

10:41I mean, is there any chance that it could make a comeback? CBD? Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know if make a comeback is the right way to contextualize it. But I mean, CBD is still a thing. It just kind of isn't a gold rush of everyone trying to put it in everything anymore, which is totally fine. I mean, there's certainly, you know, it's used as a supplement and, uh, and other types of products than beverages. And, you know, I think in 2019, it was very much like a lot of chatter and not a lot of actual action. Since I think if we thought about all the companies that we talked to about their upcoming CBD line that never happened, there were a fair amount, right?

11:26So I don't know. I mean, why did it fall out of favor? We could probably talk about that for a half an hour, but I think ultimately like the trajectory of COVID and just where we're at now with hemp-derived THC kind of has made CBD slightly the odd man out, I suppose. It also seems like, Ray, you mentioned vibes and recess. Another one is trip. The ones that were pre-Gold Rush into CBD are the ones that are still doing CBD. And a lot of the Gold Rush brands are just kind of not doing CBD. Well, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say Recess was like a Gold Rush brand, which is pivoted, but it's a longer game.

12:06I think there's still a level of education about it. And I think there's also an opportunity to just kind of roll it into hemp-derived beverages. You're seeing a lot more THC beverages that are including other cannabinoids in it. So you're getting, you know, more of the plant for a better high and a better experience. So less psychoactive and more like relaxation. So like Calexo, for example, has, you know, equal parts THC to CBD in their beverages, and you have a better experience because you have less of the psychoactive effects. So I think there's like an opportunity there, especially with like the regulations for like specifically hemp derived beverages that opens the door to be sold in like more retail stores.

12:45And you see magic cactus with the additional THCV as well, the non-psychoactive THC. Not sure exactly what that does, but I do like the impact of magic cactus. It just gives you that, I mean, for me, it just gives you that just chill that you're looking for. And then you're not like knocked out for an hour either or two or three. We're in the matrix. Yeah, well, I think this goes back to the point that you made, Jackie, about education, but also sort of delivery mechanism for CBD and for THC. I feel like, John, you'd noted that CBD is still consumed pretty widely as a supplement and in tablets or other forms, if less so in beverages and food.

13:32But I think, you know, THC isn't like that. I think, you know, THC in terms of supplements, people don't necessarily say, I'm going to have the THC tablet or capsule, or I think that's more prevalent in the CBD market. But I wonder, you know, if the education even matters at this point, I mean, do people, you know, really want to learn about it as much as they say, want to learn about THC? Well, I mean, I think the education is sort of like the literal opposite of CBD, which for CBD, it was like, does this stuff work? And now I think there's almost a need to educate about these products not being something that's going to have you like, I don't know, passed out on the couch, right?

14:16That they are like social products. And, you know, I think very few of them are using the word high to describe the function. So, I mean, I think THC is a widely understood functional, I don't know, not ingredient, but... ingredient i guess why not so i think at this point it's just more like mainstreaming it and you know i think just the stuff we've seen even in the past week with chains like total wine like putting thc beverages and like all of their california locations which they've been you know slowly doing that in other states like these things are going to mainstream these types of products in a way that i don't think recreational dispensaries ever would have so it's like the playing field has completely changed and the opportunity has completely changed.

15:05So very interesting to see, you know, where this stuff all goes, but it seems like lots of, uh, potential upside here. Also seems like we're starting to see more mushrooms being combined with THC and CBD. I'm not talking about psychoactive mushrooms yet. I'm talking about lion's mane in this particular, I've got, we just got the new Breeze in, which is, the previous can was much smaller, two and a half milligrams of THC. This is a 12 ounce can, five milligrams THC, 10 milligrams CBD, 2200 milligrams of Lion's Mate. John Craven's sampling. All right. I'm curious how it tastes compared to the old one.

15:45Why not? I'll go for it too. I think like CBD had its heyday of just like this one singular ingredient and because everyone's kind of just jumping on it because it was something new and exciting and, you know, people wanted to feel better. But now it's just being added to the mix of all these other functional ingredients to make like a well-rounded experience. I'm not going to say what it tastes like because last time you guys lit me up for saying it tastes like squirt. Oh, I said it. It's good. I like it. It's lemon elderflower flavor and definitely, I don't know, squirt, fresca sprite yep yeah some uh kind of earthy undertones to it i like the way they're leaning into the terpenes instead of like trying to get rid of them i mean this is really tasty i mean it definitely is this is definitely like a product that you know when you think about these as alcohol replacements where this would be like a bit of a slow sipper yes which seems like what they're going for it's pretty like intense in the flavor the bitterness has like a hop quality to it where it's like slowing you down.

16:47It's really nice. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I like the branding. It's very sort of subtle. Right. But it does have like this sort of oil slick on it too. That's like, oh, slow down a little bit. That could be psychoactive. You know, that's what I want from a beverage like this. Just a little bit of a warning. You want like an indicator that you, if you look at this and you see like leprechauns, that means you stop drinking. Or if I see three cans instead of one. Oh, geez. Didn't you just say that, you know, it's a good replacement for alcohol beverages? I don't think that's a good endorsement for that brand.

17:21I mean, if they could have that on the side of, I don't know, like a Tigroni, I'd be okay with that, too. Yeah. I hope after one can of Tigroni, you aren't seeing leprechauns.

17:33That would take a lot. Yeah. Just to be clear, the brand you guys are talking about and sipping on is called Breeze, spelled B-R-E-Z, correct? That is right. That's correct. There you go. It's quite delicious. And to close the loop on this CBD conversation, Jackie, I think you nailed it, talking about CBD as a secondary ingredient almost, as a way to enhance the overall functionality of a product versus being the primary reason that someone is drinking a functional beverage or eating a functional food. So I think that is definitely something, a trend that we're seeing more often. And I think the question is, you know, does the cost to add CBD justify the functional benefit that consumers are getting in the price they're paying for whatever product you're selling?

18:18I mean, we still haven't had scientific studies where we can point to what CBD actually does. It's all hearsay. Like, I don't know, someone like me who, you know, had shoulder issues and then was taking ibuprofen and decided I'm not taking ibuprofen anymore and replaced it with CBD and then felt better. Was it because I felt better? I just healed? Is it placebo? What is it? Who knows? But like, that's what we have right now when you're talking about CBD. Now, one ingredient that no one can debate the efficacy of is, of course, Cognizant. Cognizant is a clinically tested nootropic ingredient that delivers a patented form of citicholine to supply your brain and those of your consumers with the energy it needs to stay sharp.

19:00Learn more at cognizant.com. That's C-O-G-N-I-Z-I-N.com. Of course, Cognizant is the presenting sponsor of this episode of Taste Radio. Don't take ibuprofen. It's bad for you. I stopped. My doctor told me to. There's my soapbox moment for this episode. Don't take ibuprofen, folks. It's killing you. Don't trust the government. No, I'm just kidding. I was like, we need that. Can we insert that disclaimer that says that those are the opinions of Ray Latif only? The opinions of Ray Latif about ibuprofen and blue foods do not necessarily agree with those of BevNet.com, Inc. well speaking of canned cocktails like tigronis everyone knows the brand crystal head vodka which was co-created by the actor dan akroyd who i interviewed last year on taste radio great episode if you haven't had an opportunity go to taste radio.com look for dan akroyd just look for crystal head vodka and listen to that episode it's a great one crystal head vodka came out with some new canned cocktails so they have two varieties they have a cosmopolitan and they have an espresso martini.

20:11They come in these wonderful little steel cans. They're 100 milliliter cans. I think everyone's seen these. It's like Tip Top or Postmurium or Tacronis. And, you know, these are two very well known and trendy types of cocktails as a Cosmo and certainly an espresso martini. I haven't tried either yet. I'm excited to, but both are made, obviously with Crystal Head Vodka. I love these cans. And to me, they indicate quality and they indicate convenience more to me than a lot of the full size, you know, 10, 12, 16 ounce canned cocktails. But, you know, the proof is in the pudding. Does this taste good?

20:49And if it does, you know, I'll certainly be a consumer. But I mean, I like the can too. It's black with the little skull that you... It's a really cool looking can. With the Crystal Head Vodka brand, And, you know, those are the ones that come those glass skull shaped bottles. So good stuff. I think we're going to need an office taste test. You want to try these two? Yeah, why not? Because they belong to me. Jeez, guy. Here we go. I'm just kidding. I'll bring them in. I'll bring them in. I have a million, not a million, but I have so many espresso marijina canned cocktails. There's a lot. I think I have about a dozen.

21:29I'm not kidding. and I was going to bring them to the office so we could do like a taste test. But I don't know, maybe maybe you can get Uber or Lyft to sponsor our our taste test. Because, yeah, you know why I'll pay for your Lyft, Ray. Oh, OK. Yeah. Just don't have any of your three leprechaun beverages before you do. Can we sample a new pay for your Lyft, not participate in the taste test? Oh, my God. Is it swell time? Hey, I mean, you're jumping to conclusions here, but we got this new Reese's International Delight iced coffee beverage that... Oh, no. It could be good. Says that it's made with real milk and cream.

22:09It's a product of Danone. It's got 220 calories in this 16-ounce can here. Oh, God. How many grams of sugar? Oh, no. It's looking like 38. Does it have a million ingredients in it? A million ingredients? Hold on. Jackie, of course. I gotta have a sip first. Wow, it smells like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. It tastes almost like a liqueur. Hmm. Strange. It's not good. It doesn't have a million ingredients. I don't know. That's not real peanut butter. That's like peanut butter flavoring, right? It says natural and artificial flavors. Cane sugar. Processed. I just got some cocoa. Okay, you know, I don't know.

22:53I guess it is what it is here. Isn't International Delight a creamer? Yes. Yeah. So it's kind of weird to have that as like the focal point of a drink. Well, the cream makes the coffee for a lot of people, right? I guess it's like people that get iced coffee and like it's all cream and like a splash of coffee. It's like for the people who buy Yankee candles that smell like Dunkin' Donuts coffee. You know, it's just like, you ever do that? You go into someone's home, it's like some home in, I don't know. I was going to say a town. I'm not going to say the town. I mean, look, this product, I'll give it props for it delivers on what it says on the can.

23:28It does. It tastes like Reese's. It tastes like international delight. Not my personal cup of tea, but. For me, it delivers on everything except for the delight part. And I don't know about the 38 grams of sugar, but it's in there. Did you guys get to try the chameleon coffee, the Girl Scout flavored chameleon coffee at Expo West? We did not. Yeah, I didn't either. But, you know, an indication that indulgent flavors are still hot or still at least of interest to consumers, even at Expo West. Does this count as an indulgent flavor? Hot dog? Because I've got something here that says it's 100 % beef hot dog and then 10 ,000 % free to top it as you see fit.

24:10It's in a big bite box from 7-Eleven. Yes. You can't be more than 100 % 7-Eleven. But what's in it? Is it from 7-Eleven? What do we got here? And it is Big Bite Hot Dog Sparkling Water. Oh, man. Come on. Founded by artists. And Art Tom Stevenson and Jason S. Wright, Miracle Seltzer, aims to inspire and uplift everyone that takes a sip. Join us as we delight in these miracles. So it's like hot dog water. We're going to try some hot dog water here. And we've got to save some of that for a sample Captain Colin. He specifically requested. Not for resale. So what exactly is this? the point is there is no point this is probably the point get us to talk about it yeah it's clear not brown like just want to make me think of like hot dog eating contests where they're like have to dunk the buns in the water and then like it's actually gonna be hot dog water it smells like hot dogs oh no here we go hmm yeah it tastes like hot dogs really with any like toppings or like just pure hot dog it tastes like what you would expect when you're on the street and the hot dogs are in the water and they take it out of the water someone like hot dog juice uh-huh boiled hot dog someone went into a 7-eleven and grabbed there's like probably a little drawer in there where they keep the hot dogs in the water before they put them on the roller just drain that it's not terrible really not terrible i mean if you like hot dogs it's not terrible if you don't like hot dogs this would be your nightmare apparently there is a character on scooby-doo whose nickname is hot dog water her name is marcy fletch better known as hot dog water character on scooby-doo mystery incorporated we gotta ask Josh Pratt about this.

26:04I'm sure he knows who this is. But Josh Pratt is our technical director. Excuse me, Joshua. Joshua Pratt, our technical director. But I think you're confusing Ninja Turtles and Scooby-Doo, by the way. Yeah, I looked up hot dog water and that's the only thing I see coming up. Oh, no, I take that back. There was another one in 2018. There was a brand, a product literally called hot dog water. And it was sold in Vancouver, Canada. And it looked like it was actually a hot dog in a bottle of water. Very different than what you guys are drinking. So it was like the asparagus water that like went viral.

26:41Yes, I remember that. But the asparagus water wasn't 28 bucks a bottle like this hot dog. Oh, wow. That's an expensive hot dog. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know who want to shell that out, but maybe these guys are onto something because this is really with you, though. I don't know about this. Oh, no. It's lingering, a lingering taste it's as though i'm in a hot dog eating contest right now i know how joey chestnut must feel it's like i'm just continuously it's a little interesting yeah it's still there it's like i'm still eating buns and and the brand is called big bite is that what it's called it is called big bite so it's created by 7-eleven it looks like it's a 7-eleven stunt okay cool well we're researching yeah okay novelty is still alive and well in the beverage industry clearly Seven select House of Miracles is above Big Bite.

27:27So there we go. Can we cleanse this with something? Yeah. Do you have something good over there? I got some carbone Alfredo sauce. This seems like the type of thing that Ray would endorse. Yeah. He'd be like, you know, I eat a lot of Alfredo sauce at home. Double fist. I don't endorse. Along with the nice chocolate cake that I've got over here. No, I like carbone. Big fan. No, carbone is great. Yeah. I tried this real quick at Expo. It was pretty tasty. I don't know if I've had a jarred Alfredo sauce in a long, long time, but it was pretty good. Yes, you could drink it as a beverage. You want me to chug it?

28:06No. Chug Alfredo sauce. Was Mario Carbone at Expo West? I didn't see him there. I didn't see him. It's hard to verify if he was in the building or not. It's a large place, Ray. Okay. Loved my interview with Mario, which we published last year on Taste Radio. It's a classic. Check that one out, too. Can I stay on the sauce front for a second? Sure. I got some samples of a new brand, or at least a brand that I'm not familiar with, called Le Sauce. Le Sauce Company that makes gourmet pasta sauce and sells them these 8.8-ounce pouches. Why are you laughing, Mike? Because you go to Spain and suddenly you have a French accent.